1 00:00:05,155 --> 00:00:05,339 . 2 00:00:05,439 --> 00:00:07,466 - In the criminal justice system, 3 00:00:07,499 --> 00:00:08,942 sexually based offenses 4 00:00:09,009 --> 00:00:11,044 are considered especially heinous. 5 00:00:11,111 --> 00:00:13,614 In New York City, the dedicated detectives 6 00:00:13,714 --> 00:00:15,449 who investigate these vicious felonies 7 00:00:15,516 --> 00:00:17,050 are members of an elite squad 8 00:00:17,150 --> 00:00:18,911 known as the Special Victims Unit. 9 00:00:19,011 --> 00:00:20,854 These are their stories. 10 00:00:28,862 --> 00:00:31,281 - [laughing] 11 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:36,203 [thudding, shattering] 12 00:00:36,270 --> 00:00:40,324 [tense music] 13 00:00:40,357 --> 00:00:41,475 - Hey! 14 00:00:41,508 --> 00:00:43,477 What the hell? That's my car! 15 00:00:43,510 --> 00:00:44,645 - Hey, don't come any closer! 16 00:00:44,778 --> 00:00:47,164 - Look what you did! - He said stand back! 17 00:00:47,197 --> 00:00:49,341 - Wha--[grunts] 18 00:00:49,374 --> 00:00:51,151 [siren wailing] - Run, Harrison! 19 00:00:51,285 --> 00:00:53,845 [tires screech] 20 00:00:53,879 --> 00:00:55,047 [bat clatters] 21 00:00:55,113 --> 00:00:57,925 - Police! 22 00:00:57,991 --> 00:00:59,685 - NYPD! 23 00:00:59,718 --> 00:01:01,011 - Don't move. 24 00:01:01,044 --> 00:01:02,729 Put your hands on the car! 25 00:01:02,796 --> 00:01:04,498 - Let's go. - Margot-- 26 00:01:04,631 --> 00:01:06,058 - Quiet! 27 00:01:06,124 --> 00:01:07,768 - Are you all right? Do you need an ambulance? 28 00:01:07,868 --> 00:01:09,528 - No, I'm--I'm okay. 29 00:01:09,561 --> 00:01:11,229 - What happened? 30 00:01:11,296 --> 00:01:13,240 - Uh, I just ca--came out and found them messing up m-- 31 00:01:13,340 --> 00:01:16,576 my car. - Any idea why? 32 00:01:16,677 --> 00:01:18,378 - I mean, 33 00:01:18,445 --> 00:01:20,572 I guess that. 34 00:01:20,639 --> 00:01:24,810 ♪ ♪ 35 00:01:24,910 --> 00:01:26,670 - I take it you're Zac. 36 00:01:29,957 --> 00:01:32,826 - I just think it's important to believe victims. 37 00:01:32,893 --> 00:01:35,896 - Well, I couldn't agree more. 38 00:01:35,963 --> 00:01:37,631 But are you saying that you're a victim? 39 00:01:37,731 --> 00:01:39,700 - I'm saying when people speak up, nobody listens. 40 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,934 - I'm listening. 41 00:01:41,001 --> 00:01:42,552 Margot, I'm all ears. - [scoffs] 42 00:01:42,586 --> 00:01:44,171 No, you're gonna say what everyone else says. 43 00:01:44,271 --> 00:01:45,731 What was she wearing? Was she drinking? 44 00:01:45,764 --> 00:01:46,707 - Okay, Margot, please. 45 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,275 Just yes or no. 46 00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,711 Were you a victim of sexual assault? 47 00:01:50,744 --> 00:01:51,712 - You see? 48 00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:53,947 You're not listening. 49 00:01:54,014 --> 00:01:55,749 - Look, this all got out of hand. 50 00:01:55,816 --> 00:01:57,684 Nobody intended for anybody to get hurt. 51 00:01:57,784 --> 00:01:59,987 - Yeah, kind of hard to buy that when you show up 52 00:02:00,087 --> 00:02:02,222 with a baseball bat, Harrison. 53 00:02:02,289 --> 00:02:03,991 - Margot said it was just a precaution. 54 00:02:04,057 --> 00:02:06,226 - What else did Margot say? 55 00:02:06,259 --> 00:02:09,696 - That it's important to take a stand. 56 00:02:09,763 --> 00:02:10,856 And it is. 57 00:02:10,956 --> 00:02:13,233 And that we should believe women, and I do. 58 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:14,860 - You always do what Margot tells you? 59 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,071 - She's very, very smart. 60 00:02:18,171 --> 00:02:20,407 And she cares about the world, 61 00:02:20,474 --> 00:02:22,142 and justice. 62 00:02:23,477 --> 00:02:25,612 And--and she's-- and she's smart. 63 00:02:25,679 --> 00:02:29,416 - And she told you that Zac was a rapist? 64 00:02:29,449 --> 00:02:31,351 - I am not a rapist. 65 00:02:31,418 --> 00:02:33,854 I don't even know what they're talking about. 66 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,155 - You've never met either of them? 67 00:02:35,255 --> 00:02:37,816 - No, but a couple days ago, I started getting 68 00:02:37,883 --> 00:02:40,127 all these DMs on my socials. 69 00:02:40,193 --> 00:02:42,062 They found my work email. 70 00:02:42,162 --> 00:02:44,531 Total strangers saying I raped somebody. 71 00:02:44,598 --> 00:02:45,766 - Zac, what I need you to focus on 72 00:02:45,832 --> 00:02:48,068 is why they'd get this idea about you. 73 00:02:48,135 --> 00:02:50,162 - Man, I don't know. 74 00:02:50,228 --> 00:02:52,330 [stammering] They're crazy? 75 00:02:52,397 --> 00:02:54,007 You know, mistaken identity? 76 00:02:54,074 --> 00:02:57,310 I--I don't even know who's saying I did that. 77 00:02:57,344 --> 00:02:59,680 - Margot, this is not a trick question. 78 00:02:59,746 --> 00:03:00,947 It's yes or no. 79 00:03:00,981 --> 00:03:02,949 Is the victim a friend of yours or not? 80 00:03:02,983 --> 00:03:04,242 - What if she's not? 81 00:03:04,342 --> 00:03:05,886 Do we have to be besties? 82 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:06,953 - Oh, my God, you-- 83 00:03:06,987 --> 00:03:08,455 you don't have to be anything. 84 00:03:08,555 --> 00:03:10,791 I don't know how to get through to you. 85 00:03:10,824 --> 00:03:14,294 I cannot move forward with this investigation 86 00:03:14,327 --> 00:03:17,030 until I have a name. 87 00:03:19,666 --> 00:03:22,986 - Who is this victim you are avenging? 88 00:03:23,019 --> 00:03:24,938 - Like, a name? 89 00:03:25,005 --> 00:03:27,541 - Yeah, exactly, like a name. 90 00:03:27,641 --> 00:03:30,410 - I don't actually know her real-life name. 91 00:03:30,477 --> 00:03:31,712 - I never met her. 92 00:03:31,778 --> 00:03:33,705 - You never had one conversation with her? 93 00:03:33,772 --> 00:03:35,340 - No, but it doesn't matter. 94 00:03:35,373 --> 00:03:37,451 What matters is we found her rapist, and you didn't. 95 00:03:37,551 --> 00:03:40,011 - Okay, Margot, I need you to give me 96 00:03:40,045 --> 00:03:42,422 something to investigate, just one thing. 97 00:03:42,489 --> 00:03:43,724 Could be anything. 98 00:03:43,790 --> 00:03:46,393 I need you to give me one thing. 99 00:03:46,493 --> 00:03:53,333 ♪ ♪ 100 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,001 Her name is Jaded Ember. 101 00:03:55,102 --> 00:03:58,130 She's a VTuber on Twitch. 102 00:03:58,196 --> 00:04:00,741 Like a virtual streamer. 103 00:04:00,807 --> 00:04:04,411 - I don't expect anyone to believe me or help me. 104 00:04:04,478 --> 00:04:06,613 I just wanted to say it out loud. 105 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,015 The guy who raped me, he's gonna get away with it. 106 00:04:09,149 --> 00:04:11,910 But maybe someone who's going through something like this, 107 00:04:11,977 --> 00:04:15,038 maybe they'll hear me and have a different ending. 108 00:04:15,071 --> 00:04:16,790 I don't know. 109 00:04:16,890 --> 00:04:18,859 It would be awesome if this helped someone. 110 00:04:18,892 --> 00:04:21,862 Otherwise, what's even the point? 111 00:04:21,928 --> 00:04:25,991 - I mean, you'd have to be crazy to ignore that. 112 00:04:26,091 --> 00:04:29,102 How could we just not try to help? 113 00:04:29,202 --> 00:04:34,107 ♪ ♪ 114 00:04:34,174 --> 00:04:37,102 [dramatic music] 115 00:04:37,169 --> 00:04:44,201 ♪ ♪ 116 00:05:22,556 --> 00:05:22,739 . 117 00:05:22,923 --> 00:05:24,324 - And we think he's casing the houses 118 00:05:24,391 --> 00:05:25,826 until the occupants leave. 119 00:05:25,892 --> 00:05:28,228 So I'm assigning an additional unit to Sector David. 120 00:05:28,295 --> 00:05:29,963 Questions? 121 00:05:30,063 --> 00:05:33,825 All right, then let's focus on quality stops and good collars. 122 00:05:33,959 --> 00:05:36,294 And make sure your body cams are up and running. 123 00:05:36,328 --> 00:05:38,330 Be professional, respectful, and everyone 124 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:39,940 comes back in one piece. 125 00:05:39,973 --> 00:05:42,008 All right, thanks. Dismissed. 126 00:05:45,971 --> 00:05:47,781 - Not one officer checking their phone. 127 00:05:47,814 --> 00:05:49,299 They must like you. 128 00:05:49,332 --> 00:05:50,884 - Well, there may or may not be a rumor going around 129 00:05:50,951 --> 00:05:53,144 that anyone not paying attention to the roll 130 00:05:53,178 --> 00:05:54,638 gets zero OT. 131 00:05:54,671 --> 00:05:56,181 - You're laying down the hammer. 132 00:05:56,314 --> 00:05:57,691 - Guess I'm a natural. 133 00:05:59,826 --> 00:06:02,312 - I don't like this. 134 00:06:02,345 --> 00:06:04,022 - There's nothing to like. It is what it is. 135 00:06:04,122 --> 00:06:06,449 - Yeah, but can I still be mad for you? 136 00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:11,363 - Ah, shoot, I got a budgeting meeting coming up. 137 00:06:11,496 --> 00:06:14,040 But tell Griff if he double parks in front of the precinct 138 00:06:14,140 --> 00:06:16,543 again, I'm gonna have his ass towed. 139 00:06:20,672 --> 00:06:21,915 - I'm not gonna lie. 140 00:06:21,982 --> 00:06:25,118 That interview from last night kind of broke my brain. 141 00:06:25,151 --> 00:06:27,454 - Yeah, I feel like I know less after talking to them 142 00:06:27,487 --> 00:06:29,823 than I did after reading the two-sentence police report. 143 00:06:29,923 --> 00:06:31,992 - I had to cut Zac loose. He said he'd stay in town. 144 00:06:32,058 --> 00:06:33,184 - Yeah, we got nothing to hold him on. 145 00:06:33,218 --> 00:06:34,261 - What'd I miss? 146 00:06:34,327 --> 00:06:35,528 - A whole lot of questions. 147 00:06:35,562 --> 00:06:37,055 - Okay, so I found the rest of that clip 148 00:06:37,188 --> 00:06:38,798 from Jaded Ember's Twitch site. 149 00:06:38,865 --> 00:06:41,501 She's got a ton of fans on GameCast. 150 00:06:41,534 --> 00:06:43,670 Mostly livestreams herself playing video games. 151 00:06:43,737 --> 00:06:44,938 But here's the part of the video where 152 00:06:45,005 --> 00:06:46,564 she talks about being raped. 153 00:06:46,698 --> 00:06:49,109 - I was in therapy when it all came back to me. 154 00:06:49,175 --> 00:06:51,903 It's so crazy how your brain can just forget things 155 00:06:52,037 --> 00:06:54,072 that are, like, too traumatic. 156 00:06:54,172 --> 00:06:56,149 But I can feel him 157 00:06:56,182 --> 00:06:58,743 pressing down on my neck, 158 00:06:58,877 --> 00:07:00,520 telling me to relax. 159 00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:02,422 I could hardly breathe. 160 00:07:02,555 --> 00:07:03,823 I couldn't scream. 161 00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:06,584 I-- [breathes shakily] 162 00:07:06,685 --> 00:07:08,161 I don't know. This sounds crazy. 163 00:07:08,228 --> 00:07:11,498 I hope you guys believe me. 164 00:07:11,564 --> 00:07:13,700 - So it's a recovered memory. 165 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,869 - Yeah, from someone who won't reveal their identity. 166 00:07:15,936 --> 00:07:16,928 It's tricky. 167 00:07:17,028 --> 00:07:18,505 - Did she identify her rapist? 168 00:07:18,538 --> 00:07:20,874 - No, nothing. No name, no details. 169 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:23,410 - But our vigilante Margot claims that 170 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:25,412 her detective skills are so incredible that 171 00:07:25,545 --> 00:07:26,946 they have cracked the case. - Mm. 172 00:07:27,047 --> 00:07:28,248 - Well, Zac is also a gamer. 173 00:07:28,348 --> 00:07:30,108 He's got a big following on Twitch. 174 00:07:30,241 --> 00:07:32,085 He and Jaded Ember were dating. 175 00:07:32,185 --> 00:07:35,405 But Zac claims they never met, only online. 176 00:07:35,438 --> 00:07:38,625 They had a big public ugly breakup about a year ago. 177 00:07:38,725 --> 00:07:40,785 Her fans just jumped to their own conclusions. 178 00:07:40,919 --> 00:07:42,412 - It seems real thin. 179 00:07:42,445 --> 00:07:44,030 - Well, how many of her fans think that he's a rapist? 180 00:07:44,097 --> 00:07:45,432 - Oh, most of them. 181 00:07:45,532 --> 00:07:47,534 - So he could be looking at more of her fans 182 00:07:47,567 --> 00:07:50,236 tracking him down and harassing him, or worse. 183 00:07:50,337 --> 00:07:52,772 - So let's get a subpoena for her identity. 184 00:07:52,872 --> 00:07:54,474 That way, if she makes a complaint, 185 00:07:54,541 --> 00:07:56,226 we have something to investigate. 186 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:01,247 April Deieso? 187 00:08:01,314 --> 00:08:02,949 - Uh, yeah? 188 00:08:02,982 --> 00:08:04,984 - You're Jaded Ember. 189 00:08:05,118 --> 00:08:06,152 - What's this about? 190 00:08:06,252 --> 00:08:07,387 - We're from Special Victims Unit. 191 00:08:07,454 --> 00:08:09,155 Can we talk to you for a sec? 192 00:08:10,815 --> 00:08:12,609 - I don't recognize them. 193 00:08:12,642 --> 00:08:14,594 Yeah, I know Zac. 194 00:08:14,627 --> 00:08:16,930 He's a dick and a terrible boyfriend, 195 00:08:16,996 --> 00:08:18,198 but he didn't rape me. 196 00:08:18,264 --> 00:08:19,899 - Well, thanks for clearing that up. 197 00:08:19,966 --> 00:08:21,835 - How bad was it? Is he okay? 198 00:08:21,935 --> 00:08:24,763 - He was shaken up, but he's fine. 199 00:08:24,829 --> 00:08:27,741 You made some pretty serious allegations 200 00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:29,167 on that live stream. 201 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:31,127 We are sorry that that happened to you, 202 00:08:31,161 --> 00:08:32,512 and we would like to investigate. 203 00:08:32,579 --> 00:08:35,014 - No. 204 00:08:35,148 --> 00:08:36,850 I know that it sounds kind of weird, 205 00:08:36,983 --> 00:08:40,512 that I'm saying I was raped, but I don't really remember. 206 00:08:40,645 --> 00:08:42,455 And I--I know how crazy that sounds-- 207 00:08:42,522 --> 00:08:44,115 - But it's not crazy. 208 00:08:44,182 --> 00:08:47,460 So, April, it's very common for victims 209 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,830 to block out significant details from their assault. 210 00:08:50,930 --> 00:08:53,458 - Right, but I only remember bits and pieces, 211 00:08:53,525 --> 00:08:55,201 and I don't wanna be, like, quizzed on everything. 212 00:08:55,335 --> 00:08:57,203 - You said you remembered this while you were in therapy. 213 00:08:57,270 --> 00:08:59,973 Can you talk to us more about that? 214 00:09:00,073 --> 00:09:02,208 - I--I don't think I can. 215 00:09:02,342 --> 00:09:03,977 - What do you mean? 216 00:09:04,077 --> 00:09:05,578 - I was on a psychedelic. 217 00:09:05,645 --> 00:09:06,830 - Okay. 218 00:09:06,863 --> 00:09:11,284 - It was a clinical trial for PTSD. 219 00:09:11,351 --> 00:09:13,753 It's this drug called protryptamine. 220 00:09:13,820 --> 00:09:14,921 - Okay. 221 00:09:14,988 --> 00:09:16,322 - No, I-- 222 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:17,857 I really shouldn't have said anything. 223 00:09:17,891 --> 00:09:19,008 I know how it sounds. 224 00:09:19,042 --> 00:09:20,260 Nobody's gonna believe me. 225 00:09:20,326 --> 00:09:22,429 - We're here because we think that 226 00:09:22,495 --> 00:09:24,330 there is something to investigate. 227 00:09:24,431 --> 00:09:26,032 - There's not. 228 00:09:26,066 --> 00:09:28,001 I don't remember enough. 229 00:09:28,034 --> 00:09:29,661 You won't be able to find him. 230 00:09:29,727 --> 00:09:31,563 - Let us try. 231 00:09:31,696 --> 00:09:34,874 [suspenseful music] 232 00:09:34,974 --> 00:09:38,211 So the clinical trial has been over for almost a year. 233 00:09:38,344 --> 00:09:40,905 And the drug is being tested for the treatment 234 00:09:41,005 --> 00:09:43,541 of PTSD, anxiety, depression. 235 00:09:43,575 --> 00:09:45,410 - And April had no memory of this assault 236 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:47,287 before taking a hallucinogen? 237 00:09:47,353 --> 00:09:48,588 - No, she doesn't. 238 00:09:48,688 --> 00:09:50,348 But it's--it's not a hallucinogen. 239 00:09:50,415 --> 00:09:51,724 It's not like LSD or DMT. 240 00:09:51,825 --> 00:09:54,377 It activates serotonin receptors, 241 00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:56,888 increases prolactin, which boosts 242 00:09:56,921 --> 00:09:59,032 about every happy hormone you can think of. 243 00:09:59,065 --> 00:10:01,718 - And this makes you recover memories? 244 00:10:01,751 --> 00:10:03,403 Or invent them? 245 00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:05,763 Look, I gotta ask you, 246 00:10:05,897 --> 00:10:08,541 are you sure that this assault actually happened? 247 00:10:08,608 --> 00:10:12,061 - Well, we don't know yet, but April believes that it did. 248 00:10:12,095 --> 00:10:15,582 And now so do a lot of internet warriors. 249 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:18,109 So we're just--we're trying to get to the truth. 250 00:10:18,243 --> 00:10:21,221 - All right, look, even if April recalls details, 251 00:10:21,287 --> 00:10:22,722 you're gonna need a lot more than that. 252 00:10:22,822 --> 00:10:25,124 The issue here--she wasn't aware this crime happened 253 00:10:25,225 --> 00:10:26,593 before taking a psychedelic. 254 00:10:26,726 --> 00:10:28,595 - Even if this treatment is gaining legitimacy? 255 00:10:28,695 --> 00:10:29,729 - Well, it doesn't matter. 256 00:10:29,762 --> 00:10:32,765 People v. Hughes, People v. Tunstall, 257 00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:34,801 both of these cases evaluated memories 258 00:10:34,934 --> 00:10:36,102 that were recovered through hypnosis, 259 00:10:36,236 --> 00:10:37,971 and the courts have repeatedly found 260 00:10:38,104 --> 00:10:40,306 that testimony needs to be supported 261 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,142 by pre-hypnotic recollection, okay? 262 00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:43,968 They're absolutely going to apply that here. 263 00:10:44,102 --> 00:10:45,445 - So this is dead in the water? 264 00:10:45,545 --> 00:10:47,972 - You can use this statement to ID a suspect, 265 00:10:48,106 --> 00:10:49,782 but then you're gonna need independent evidence. 266 00:10:49,816 --> 00:10:51,417 You're gonna need a confession. 267 00:10:51,484 --> 00:10:52,519 - Well, you know, it's a clinical trial. 268 00:10:52,585 --> 00:10:53,987 They've gotta have records. 269 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,488 So maybe there's more details in the session. 270 00:10:55,622 --> 00:10:56,756 - Those are not gonna be admissible. 271 00:10:56,789 --> 00:10:58,558 - But it's a very good place to start. 272 00:10:58,591 --> 00:11:00,360 I'll see if I can get permission from April 273 00:11:00,426 --> 00:11:02,745 to talk with the therapist. 274 00:11:04,622 --> 00:11:06,925 - Protryptamine is both plant-derived 275 00:11:06,991 --> 00:11:09,669 and chemically stabilized, making it more compatible 276 00:11:09,802 --> 00:11:11,804 with our brain chemistry than most psychedelics. 277 00:11:11,905 --> 00:11:14,974 And the vast majority of our participants, 278 00:11:15,108 --> 00:11:18,469 they no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. 279 00:11:18,503 --> 00:11:22,106 I won't be going back to traditional treatment again. 280 00:11:22,173 --> 00:11:24,083 - So it's a miracle drug? 281 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:26,286 - I know it all sounds a little kooky-- 282 00:11:26,386 --> 00:11:29,522 pop a pill, listen to music, lay down in a dark room, 283 00:11:29,656 --> 00:11:31,257 and see what feelings come up, 284 00:11:31,324 --> 00:11:34,143 but we have seen what it could do for people. 285 00:11:34,177 --> 00:11:35,820 - Which one of you treated April? 286 00:11:35,853 --> 00:11:37,196 - We both did. 287 00:11:37,297 --> 00:11:39,324 - At the--at the same time? 288 00:11:39,357 --> 00:11:40,358 Is that typical? 289 00:11:40,491 --> 00:11:42,669 - It's protocol, and necessary. 290 00:11:42,735 --> 00:11:45,530 I mean, the sessions can bring up strong, sometimes difficult 291 00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:47,173 emotions, and can last hours. 292 00:11:47,273 --> 00:11:48,741 - What were you treating her for? 293 00:11:48,808 --> 00:11:50,301 - PTSD. 294 00:11:50,368 --> 00:11:52,495 At the time, we believed her symptoms--hyperarousal, 295 00:11:52,528 --> 00:11:54,305 numbness, hypervigilance-- 296 00:11:54,372 --> 00:11:56,516 all stemmed from growing up in an unstable household 297 00:11:56,583 --> 00:11:58,151 with an alcoholic mother. 298 00:11:58,184 --> 00:11:59,719 - You think it's possible it actually 299 00:11:59,819 --> 00:12:01,354 stemmed from sexual assault? 300 00:12:01,387 --> 00:12:03,147 - Obviously, we don't know for certain. 301 00:12:03,214 --> 00:12:05,558 But whether or not an event happened is unimportant. 302 00:12:05,692 --> 00:12:07,218 - Seems it would be very important. 303 00:12:07,352 --> 00:12:09,062 - Detectives, we're not in the business 304 00:12:09,195 --> 00:12:11,497 of investigating the accuracy of a memory 305 00:12:11,564 --> 00:12:12,932 or catching criminals. 306 00:12:12,999 --> 00:12:15,351 We are in the business of healing. 307 00:12:15,385 --> 00:12:19,339 We explore the meaning behind the memory, true or not. 308 00:12:19,405 --> 00:12:20,873 - Yes or no. 309 00:12:20,907 --> 00:12:22,166 You think she was raped? 310 00:12:22,233 --> 00:12:24,210 - No, I don't. 311 00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:25,945 [suspenseful music] 312 00:12:26,012 --> 00:12:28,339 I pulled her session files. 313 00:12:28,406 --> 00:12:30,508 Take a look yourselves. 314 00:12:30,575 --> 00:12:34,520 I trust that you'll protect both April and our work. 315 00:12:34,587 --> 00:12:36,122 - Thank you. 316 00:12:36,189 --> 00:12:43,262 ♪ ♪ 317 00:12:46,733 --> 00:12:48,901 - Dr. Severson, got a minute? 318 00:12:48,935 --> 00:12:50,136 - Uh, unfortunately, no. 319 00:12:50,203 --> 00:12:51,696 I'm late for an appointment. Sorry. 320 00:12:51,763 --> 00:12:53,239 - We'll walk with you, and then maybe you 321 00:12:53,373 --> 00:12:54,741 could tell us what you wouldn't say up there 322 00:12:54,807 --> 00:12:56,743 in front of your partner. 323 00:12:56,843 --> 00:12:59,212 - Uh, there's really not much more to say. 324 00:12:59,312 --> 00:13:00,747 - That's fine. 325 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,116 We'll just ask more questions, widen the net, 326 00:13:03,182 --> 00:13:04,617 involve a lot more people. 327 00:13:04,751 --> 00:13:06,235 You know, that won't impact the clinical trials at all. 328 00:13:06,269 --> 00:13:07,553 - Nah, 'cause you know what pharmaceutical 329 00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:08,613 companies really love? 330 00:13:08,746 --> 00:13:10,123 Police investigations. 331 00:13:11,382 --> 00:13:13,393 - Look, I'll start by saying, 332 00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:15,453 I don't mean to disparage my colleague. 333 00:13:15,586 --> 00:13:17,764 I have a lot of respect for Dr. Catmull. 334 00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:21,059 He's worked in psychedelics a long time, 335 00:13:21,125 --> 00:13:23,503 which may be the reason he's a little too invested 336 00:13:23,569 --> 00:13:26,130 in pushing protryptamine over the finish line. 337 00:13:26,264 --> 00:13:28,708 - And if it gets stalled, all that research money 338 00:13:28,775 --> 00:13:29,676 goes down the drain. 339 00:13:29,742 --> 00:13:30,977 - It's not about the money. 340 00:13:31,044 --> 00:13:32,912 It's about helping people. 341 00:13:32,979 --> 00:13:35,314 Jonah wasn't wrong to question recovered memories 342 00:13:35,381 --> 00:13:36,349 in any setting. 343 00:13:36,416 --> 00:13:37,984 Sometimes they're metaphors. 344 00:13:39,452 --> 00:13:41,554 But he didn't give you the whole truth. 345 00:13:41,587 --> 00:13:44,424 April has a history of using psychedelics-- 346 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:46,492 about five years ago. 347 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,920 It wasn't revealed in the initial interview. 348 00:13:48,986 --> 00:13:50,196 It came out in therapy. 349 00:13:50,263 --> 00:13:51,998 But that should have disqualified her 350 00:13:52,065 --> 00:13:53,124 from the study. 351 00:13:53,157 --> 00:13:54,425 - Why didn't it? 352 00:13:54,492 --> 00:13:56,736 - Because she's a success story. 353 00:13:56,803 --> 00:13:58,571 Jonah wanted it in. 354 00:13:58,604 --> 00:14:00,606 - So what does that have to do with her memory 355 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,508 of being assaulted? 356 00:14:02,608 --> 00:14:06,479 - Jonah omitted the time period when April was using, 357 00:14:06,579 --> 00:14:08,181 when she was meeting a lot of men 358 00:14:08,281 --> 00:14:10,683 and blacking out on a regular basis. 359 00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:13,419 - You think that's when this happened? 360 00:14:13,453 --> 00:14:15,254 - I can't say for sure it was rape, 361 00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:18,324 but something happened to that girl. 362 00:14:18,458 --> 00:14:23,362 ♪ ♪ 363 00:14:28,601 --> 00:14:28,701 . 364 00:14:28,893 --> 00:14:30,937 - April was trying to put together a list of the men 365 00:14:31,003 --> 00:14:32,472 that she dated five years ago, 366 00:14:32,538 --> 00:14:34,607 but her memory's spotty. 367 00:14:34,674 --> 00:14:36,442 - Can you remember who you dated five years ago? 368 00:14:36,509 --> 00:14:39,829 - Well, we are not talking about me, thank you very much. 369 00:14:39,862 --> 00:14:41,414 What do we got? 370 00:14:41,481 --> 00:14:43,541 - Combing through dating app matches and cross-checking 371 00:14:43,674 --> 00:14:44,717 names with databases. 372 00:14:44,784 --> 00:14:46,302 - Liv. 373 00:14:47,478 --> 00:14:50,256 - "No psychedelic is a magic bullet." 374 00:14:50,323 --> 00:14:51,390 - For this writer. 375 00:14:51,491 --> 00:14:53,559 For others, it's the new frontier 376 00:14:53,659 --> 00:14:55,328 for mental health medicine. 377 00:14:55,395 --> 00:14:58,631 Some studies say psychedelics can assist in memory recall, 378 00:14:58,664 --> 00:15:00,400 but others say that it impairs it. 379 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:02,351 I had a psych professor at Fordham 380 00:15:02,385 --> 00:15:04,729 who had a section on how psychedelics affect the brain. 381 00:15:04,829 --> 00:15:06,197 She can break it down for me. 382 00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:07,490 - Good. Go talk to her. 383 00:15:10,393 --> 00:15:12,979 - So how does protryptamine make you remember things? 384 00:15:13,045 --> 00:15:15,648 - It's more that it modulates the brain's fear response. 385 00:15:15,681 --> 00:15:18,618 Our brain protects us from traumatic memories. 386 00:15:18,684 --> 00:15:20,753 And a psychedelic like protryptamine 387 00:15:20,887 --> 00:15:22,580 can allow you to recall those events 388 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,715 with less shame and judgment. 389 00:15:24,749 --> 00:15:28,252 For me, psychedelics weren't so much about memory. 390 00:15:28,352 --> 00:15:31,798 I just felt very connected and present. 391 00:15:31,864 --> 00:15:33,357 - You've done psychedelics? 392 00:15:33,424 --> 00:15:35,935 - I might have had a crisis of faith or two 393 00:15:36,002 --> 00:15:38,221 that required some highly classified trips 394 00:15:38,254 --> 00:15:40,740 to Oaxaca a few years back. - [laughs] Ah. 395 00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:42,141 - You're not gonna turn me in, are you? 396 00:15:42,208 --> 00:15:43,868 - Yeah, the DA's on its way. 397 00:15:43,935 --> 00:15:46,204 - It wasn't a clinical trial, of course. 398 00:15:46,270 --> 00:15:48,281 She was a lovely woman, luckily. 399 00:15:48,414 --> 00:15:50,408 You're very vulnerable in that state. 400 00:15:50,441 --> 00:15:53,653 I'm glad to see the practice is becoming more regulated now. 401 00:15:53,719 --> 00:15:55,521 - There have been problems? 402 00:15:55,588 --> 00:15:57,406 - It's not just protryptamine. 403 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,409 Sex abuse is a known problem in psychedelics, 404 00:16:00,443 --> 00:16:01,894 even the naturally occurring ones 405 00:16:01,928 --> 00:16:03,796 like ayahuasca or psilocybin. 406 00:16:03,863 --> 00:16:05,331 - Mm. 407 00:16:05,398 --> 00:16:07,725 - All those happy hormones, 408 00:16:07,792 --> 00:16:09,919 they mess with your personal boundaries. 409 00:16:09,952 --> 00:16:13,064 They trick you into thinking you're okay with things 410 00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:14,207 when you're not. 411 00:16:14,273 --> 00:16:15,766 - Which is why there's two therapists-- 412 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,060 make sure nobody crosses a line. 413 00:16:19,462 --> 00:16:21,681 - The first time, I was totally freaked out. 414 00:16:21,747 --> 00:16:23,082 - Okay. 415 00:16:23,182 --> 00:16:24,750 - I didn't sleep at all the night before. 416 00:16:24,817 --> 00:16:28,488 And I got there, I took the pill, 417 00:16:28,554 --> 00:16:30,790 and, like, immediately fell asleep. 418 00:16:30,890 --> 00:16:31,824 - Oh. 419 00:16:31,924 --> 00:16:37,129 - When I woke up, I felt... 420 00:16:37,263 --> 00:16:39,866 like I... 421 00:16:39,932 --> 00:16:42,335 understood what love meant. 422 00:16:42,468 --> 00:16:43,953 - Wow. - [laughs] 423 00:16:43,986 --> 00:16:48,841 Not--not, like, being in love, but just how 424 00:16:48,975 --> 00:16:51,711 everything and everyone is all one. 425 00:16:51,777 --> 00:16:55,514 It's--it's hard to describe. 426 00:16:55,581 --> 00:16:57,174 I--I know I probably sound nuts. 427 00:16:57,308 --> 00:17:01,345 - No, it sounds kind of, um, incredible. 428 00:17:01,479 --> 00:17:04,440 So when did you remember the assault? 429 00:17:05,675 --> 00:17:07,026 - The third time. 430 00:17:07,126 --> 00:17:08,327 - Okay. 431 00:17:08,427 --> 00:17:09,987 - They had me put an eye mask on, 432 00:17:10,021 --> 00:17:14,000 and it makes things a lot more intense. 433 00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:17,003 It felt so vivid, 434 00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:20,698 this strong feeling of... 435 00:17:20,798 --> 00:17:22,108 violation. 436 00:17:22,141 --> 00:17:25,311 I could actually feel it happening in my body. 437 00:17:25,411 --> 00:17:26,646 I was crying. 438 00:17:26,712 --> 00:17:28,472 - Did you tell your therapists? 439 00:17:28,539 --> 00:17:30,049 - One of them was sitting with me. 440 00:17:30,149 --> 00:17:33,552 He was rubbing my back and my legs, holding me. 441 00:17:33,686 --> 00:17:37,723 - Is that a common practice for your sessions, 442 00:17:37,857 --> 00:17:40,651 the physical touch? 443 00:17:40,718 --> 00:17:43,154 - Y--yeah, I guess so. - Okay. 444 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:46,132 It's just that's-- that's quite unorthodox, 445 00:17:46,165 --> 00:17:49,860 for a therapist to-- to cross that boundary. 446 00:17:49,894 --> 00:17:52,171 What happened afterwards? 447 00:17:52,271 --> 00:17:53,706 - I went home. 448 00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:55,358 - Mm-hmm. 449 00:17:55,391 --> 00:17:58,377 - And I could still feel it in my body the next day-- 450 00:17:58,411 --> 00:18:01,539 soreness between my legs 451 00:18:01,572 --> 00:18:02,748 and my throat, 452 00:18:02,848 --> 00:18:05,718 like somebody had choked me. 453 00:18:05,818 --> 00:18:11,290 They said it wasn't unusual for the brain to convince the body 454 00:18:11,357 --> 00:18:14,226 that it had really happened. 455 00:18:14,327 --> 00:18:17,430 - In my experience, the opposite is true. 456 00:18:17,496 --> 00:18:20,358 Um... 457 00:18:20,424 --> 00:18:22,885 it's the body 458 00:18:22,918 --> 00:18:25,262 that doesn't lie. 459 00:18:25,363 --> 00:18:28,307 And your body was telling you 460 00:18:28,374 --> 00:18:31,210 that you had been violated. 461 00:18:31,277 --> 00:18:32,612 [suspenseful music] 462 00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:36,073 And I think that you were. 463 00:18:36,107 --> 00:18:37,950 But not five years ago. 464 00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:44,357 Have you considered that maybe you were assaulted during-- 465 00:18:44,423 --> 00:18:45,925 during your session? 466 00:18:46,058 --> 00:18:50,763 ♪ ♪ 467 00:18:50,863 --> 00:18:52,164 - No. 468 00:18:52,231 --> 00:18:58,371 ♪ ♪ 469 00:18:58,404 --> 00:19:01,474 For a long time, I felt really good about the therapy. 470 00:19:03,401 --> 00:19:05,044 It changed my brain. 471 00:19:05,111 --> 00:19:08,230 It made me more open and optimistic. 472 00:19:11,384 --> 00:19:16,589 And now it just feels like it got rotten. 473 00:19:16,622 --> 00:19:19,692 Like I'm too sick to be fixed. 474 00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:21,794 - That's not true. 475 00:19:21,894 --> 00:19:25,423 You're not too sick to be fixed. 476 00:19:25,489 --> 00:19:31,170 They took advantage of you when you were vulnerable. 477 00:19:31,237 --> 00:19:33,139 And now they're gonna pay. 478 00:19:33,272 --> 00:19:38,678 ♪ ♪ 479 00:19:43,916 --> 00:19:44,141 . 480 00:19:44,283 --> 00:19:46,686 - Okay, so if the sessions always had two therapists, 481 00:19:46,752 --> 00:19:49,146 what are we thinking? Both of them did it? 482 00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:50,848 One of them did it while the other watched? 483 00:19:50,915 --> 00:19:53,392 - Or they weren't always together all the time. 484 00:19:53,459 --> 00:19:55,227 - April doesn't know who was there 485 00:19:55,327 --> 00:19:56,821 because she had a mask over her eyes. 486 00:19:56,854 --> 00:19:58,597 - Well, we both know for a fact 487 00:19:58,698 --> 00:20:00,700 they're willing to lie to cover it up. 488 00:20:00,766 --> 00:20:02,935 Catmull fudged the session notes. 489 00:20:03,002 --> 00:20:04,837 Severson sent us on a wild goose chase 490 00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:06,972 looking at five-year-old Hinge matches. 491 00:20:07,006 --> 00:20:09,667 Catmull has an M.D. and a PhD. 492 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,160 He's been big in the psychedelics community 493 00:20:11,193 --> 00:20:12,436 since the '90s. 494 00:20:12,536 --> 00:20:14,246 He's a real cheerleader for its benefits. 495 00:20:14,313 --> 00:20:15,781 He's got no complaints against him. 496 00:20:15,848 --> 00:20:20,286 He did a ton of research papers on protryptamine therapy. 497 00:20:20,386 --> 00:20:22,521 And I looked into Catmull's financials. 498 00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:25,191 He's got significant investments in all of this. 499 00:20:25,257 --> 00:20:28,427 Okay, if protryptamine gets distribution, 500 00:20:28,494 --> 00:20:29,829 he will make a lot of money. 501 00:20:29,962 --> 00:20:31,297 - Hmm. 502 00:20:31,363 --> 00:20:33,666 - Severson's a PsyD. 503 00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:35,334 He's new to psychedelics game. 504 00:20:35,468 --> 00:20:37,103 He still has a private practice. 505 00:20:37,169 --> 00:20:39,939 He specializes in complex trauma, PTSD, EMDR. 506 00:20:40,005 --> 00:20:41,741 No complaints against him either. 507 00:20:41,807 --> 00:20:44,643 - He and Catmull started working together two years ago 508 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:45,945 for Serolyte Pharmaceuticals. 509 00:20:46,045 --> 00:20:48,139 The parent company is based in Japan. 510 00:20:48,239 --> 00:20:50,533 The U.S. division developed protryptamine 511 00:20:50,566 --> 00:20:51,617 and is running the trials. 512 00:20:51,717 --> 00:20:52,743 - Okay, well, these clinical trials 513 00:20:52,810 --> 00:20:54,453 often record their testing. 514 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,023 So I mean, maybe there's video of these sessions. 515 00:20:58,057 --> 00:20:59,358 Let's see. 516 00:20:59,425 --> 00:21:01,418 - Who's Judd Flannery? 517 00:21:01,485 --> 00:21:04,430 - Catmull wrote all of his papers with the guy. 518 00:21:04,497 --> 00:21:06,090 And then it looks like they stopped 519 00:21:06,157 --> 00:21:08,801 around the time Severson came into the picture. 520 00:21:08,901 --> 00:21:10,069 - I wonder what split 'em up. 521 00:21:10,136 --> 00:21:12,188 - Yeah, let's find out. 522 00:21:15,941 --> 00:21:17,376 - Dr. Catmull and Dr. Severson 523 00:21:17,409 --> 00:21:19,678 are some of our finest researchers. 524 00:21:19,779 --> 00:21:21,897 Jonah has been with it from almost the beginning. 525 00:21:21,931 --> 00:21:23,349 - Uh-huh. - Since they paired up, 526 00:21:23,449 --> 00:21:24,683 their sites consistently report 527 00:21:24,784 --> 00:21:26,076 the best patient scores. 528 00:21:26,110 --> 00:21:27,419 Why? 529 00:21:27,486 --> 00:21:28,679 - Well, have you ever had any complaints 530 00:21:28,746 --> 00:21:29,955 about either of them? 531 00:21:30,022 --> 00:21:31,390 - No. 532 00:21:31,457 --> 00:21:32,558 What kind of complaints? 533 00:21:32,691 --> 00:21:35,161 - April Deieso recovered a memory 534 00:21:35,261 --> 00:21:38,731 of being sexually assaulted during one of her sessions. 535 00:21:38,764 --> 00:21:41,300 We are looking into the possibility 536 00:21:41,367 --> 00:21:45,571 that she was assaulted during that session. 537 00:21:45,604 --> 00:21:47,640 - That's not possible. April? 538 00:21:47,706 --> 00:21:50,109 Are you sure? - Yeah. 539 00:21:50,142 --> 00:21:51,510 - She was so pleased with her treatment outcome. 540 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:55,598 - So are these sessions recorded, Ms. Fuentes? 541 00:21:55,631 --> 00:21:56,874 - Yes. 542 00:21:56,974 --> 00:21:59,618 But given how sensitive the content is, 543 00:21:59,652 --> 00:22:02,321 I can't turn anything over without a patient's permission. 544 00:22:02,388 --> 00:22:03,756 - Well, I can help you with that. 545 00:22:03,822 --> 00:22:05,624 This is April's consent. 546 00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:09,453 And you should have a digital copy of that in your inbox. 547 00:22:11,664 --> 00:22:13,699 - I can't give you anything without a subpoena. 548 00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:17,728 - All right, we will get a subpoena. 549 00:22:17,828 --> 00:22:20,122 We'll be back. 550 00:22:20,155 --> 00:22:21,332 - Save the world, 551 00:22:21,398 --> 00:22:23,926 as long as you have a court order. 552 00:22:26,712 --> 00:22:28,113 - Either of you guys ever take that online quiz 553 00:22:28,247 --> 00:22:30,549 where you put in how many times a year you visit your parents, 554 00:22:30,616 --> 00:22:32,076 and then it tells you how much time you got 555 00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:33,285 left with them before they die? 556 00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:35,020 - Hard no. 557 00:22:35,087 --> 00:22:36,513 - I used to calculate how much closer I was to death 558 00:22:36,580 --> 00:22:37,581 working at a job I didn't care about, 559 00:22:37,681 --> 00:22:39,291 so one day I just walked. 560 00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,760 - All those years in medical school to work in a bike shop? 561 00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:43,520 My dad would have throttled me. 562 00:22:43,587 --> 00:22:45,698 - Well, never been happier. 563 00:22:45,764 --> 00:22:47,800 Don't get me wrong, I love helping people. 564 00:22:47,833 --> 00:22:49,902 I just hated everything else. 565 00:22:50,002 --> 00:22:52,029 - Including Catmull? 566 00:22:52,096 --> 00:22:53,639 - You know, I thought I was so lucky when he 567 00:22:53,672 --> 00:22:55,332 asked me to be his research partner. 568 00:22:55,366 --> 00:22:56,700 It didn't take long to realize he didn't 569 00:22:56,767 --> 00:22:58,611 care much about the science. 570 00:22:58,711 --> 00:23:00,813 Has he been arrested? 571 00:23:00,946 --> 00:23:02,648 - Why do you ask? 572 00:23:02,681 --> 00:23:04,083 - Dude's a druggie. 573 00:23:04,183 --> 00:23:06,151 I caught him swiping pills from our inventory. 574 00:23:06,185 --> 00:23:08,220 And I reported him to my supervisor at Serolyte, 575 00:23:08,287 --> 00:23:09,855 and she said they'd handle it internally. 576 00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:11,590 - But they never did. - I don't know. 577 00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:12,992 But there's definitely this mentality over there 578 00:23:13,025 --> 00:23:15,227 that nothing can stop the momentum, you know? 579 00:23:15,294 --> 00:23:17,596 - You ever see him act inappropriate with a patient? 580 00:23:17,663 --> 00:23:19,148 - You mean, like, sexually? 581 00:23:20,532 --> 00:23:22,860 No, but I wouldn't put anything past that guy. 582 00:23:22,893 --> 00:23:24,470 A shrink with no empathy? 583 00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:25,938 That's wild. 584 00:23:26,038 --> 00:23:27,339 One time I asked him why he got into psychedelics. 585 00:23:27,406 --> 00:23:29,141 You know what he said? - Huh? 586 00:23:29,208 --> 00:23:31,210 - "It's where the money's at." 587 00:23:31,277 --> 00:23:33,279 - Judd Flannery was a fresh graduate who 588 00:23:33,379 --> 00:23:35,239 was incompetent and incapable. 589 00:23:35,306 --> 00:23:37,049 That's why I ended the relationship. 590 00:23:37,116 --> 00:23:39,410 Look, for all I know, he stole the meds. 591 00:23:39,476 --> 00:23:41,312 - You think we're on the hunt for some pills 592 00:23:41,412 --> 00:23:42,980 that went missing two years ago? 593 00:23:43,047 --> 00:23:44,356 We're way beyond that now, Jonah. 594 00:23:44,490 --> 00:23:46,158 - Nah, this is about what you did to April. 595 00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:47,960 - [scoffs] What are you talking about? 596 00:23:48,027 --> 00:23:49,628 - Get her vulnerable and compliant, 597 00:23:49,695 --> 00:23:52,932 assault her, and convince her it was a hallucination. 598 00:23:52,998 --> 00:23:55,000 - What are you saying, that I-- - That you raped your client? 599 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,702 Yeah, that's what we're saying. - Absolutely not. 600 00:23:56,835 --> 00:23:59,229 - The only question is, was it a tag-team situation 601 00:23:59,263 --> 00:24:01,273 with you and your partner? Or was it all his idea? 602 00:24:04,176 --> 00:24:06,111 - I leave the session sometimes. 603 00:24:07,504 --> 00:24:09,882 I know I'm not supposed to. 604 00:24:10,015 --> 00:24:11,884 Austin-- 605 00:24:11,917 --> 00:24:13,385 Austin encouraged me to take breaks. 606 00:24:13,485 --> 00:24:14,778 - Sure, sure, sure, sure. 607 00:24:14,845 --> 00:24:15,888 It's always the other guy, isn't it? 608 00:24:16,021 --> 00:24:17,556 - I can prove it. 609 00:24:17,589 --> 00:24:20,225 I have videos, everything we sent to Serolyte. 610 00:24:20,326 --> 00:24:22,686 I've got copies. 611 00:24:22,753 --> 00:24:24,046 - Have you watched them? 612 00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:30,436 Because you had a feeling you knew what was on them, 613 00:24:30,469 --> 00:24:31,470 didn't you? 614 00:24:31,537 --> 00:24:34,089 [tense music] 615 00:24:34,123 --> 00:24:37,142 [April crying] 616 00:24:39,294 --> 00:24:41,447 - Let it go. - No. 617 00:24:41,513 --> 00:24:43,315 - Just relax. - No, don't touch me. 618 00:24:43,415 --> 00:24:45,768 - Shh. - No, no, no. 619 00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:49,480 I don't want... 620 00:24:49,546 --> 00:24:51,623 [crying] 621 00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:53,025 - April, you need this. 622 00:24:53,092 --> 00:24:54,109 - No. 623 00:24:54,143 --> 00:24:55,227 Please don't. 624 00:24:55,327 --> 00:24:57,563 I--I can't breathe. 625 00:24:57,663 --> 00:24:59,865 I can't breathe. No. 626 00:24:59,965 --> 00:25:02,117 Please, no, I don't want it! 627 00:25:02,151 --> 00:25:03,268 Please, stop! 628 00:25:03,335 --> 00:25:05,304 - Can you open your thighs for me? 629 00:25:05,371 --> 00:25:07,398 - No. Stop! 630 00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,742 - Okay, that's enough. 631 00:25:09,842 --> 00:25:12,211 - There might not be enough there to prove rape, 632 00:25:12,277 --> 00:25:15,406 but we absolutely have him on sexual assault. 633 00:25:15,506 --> 00:25:17,341 We're still going through all the videos, 634 00:25:17,408 --> 00:25:20,244 but Liv, we've already found two other women 635 00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:23,255 Severson did this to. 636 00:25:23,322 --> 00:25:24,857 - Get him. 637 00:25:26,325 --> 00:25:29,795 - Three crisis calls this morning, all before 10:00 a.m.? 638 00:25:29,895 --> 00:25:32,030 I think I deserve this. - Dr. Severson. 639 00:25:32,097 --> 00:25:32,990 - Whoa. - Detectives, 640 00:25:33,023 --> 00:25:34,425 this isn't the best time. 641 00:25:34,491 --> 00:25:36,135 - Is it ever? Get up! 642 00:25:36,168 --> 00:25:37,828 - What on Earth are you doing? 643 00:25:37,861 --> 00:25:39,138 - Arresting you, Doc. - What? 644 00:25:39,171 --> 00:25:40,472 - Here, enjoy that. 645 00:25:40,506 --> 00:25:41,807 - You have the right to remain silent. 646 00:25:41,907 --> 00:25:43,667 Anything you say can and will be used against you. 647 00:25:48,947 --> 00:25:49,131 . 648 00:25:49,273 --> 00:25:51,850 - So I'm gonna start with the obvious question, 649 00:25:51,950 --> 00:25:55,120 which is, did you forget that you were being recorded? 650 00:25:55,187 --> 00:25:57,990 Or--or did you just not care? 651 00:25:58,056 --> 00:25:59,141 - [chuckles] 652 00:26:00,651 --> 00:26:04,229 Captain, I can see how this might seem strange 653 00:26:04,329 --> 00:26:06,056 if you're not versed in this therapy. 654 00:26:06,123 --> 00:26:07,499 - Mm-hmm. 655 00:26:07,566 --> 00:26:09,293 - But that's what this therapy looks like. 656 00:26:09,326 --> 00:26:10,569 - You assaulted her. 657 00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:12,529 - I comforted her. 658 00:26:12,629 --> 00:26:14,273 A person who's taken protryptamine 659 00:26:14,339 --> 00:26:15,732 needs reassurance. 660 00:26:15,833 --> 00:26:17,643 They need someone there to hold them together, 661 00:26:17,709 --> 00:26:19,778 both mentally and physically. 662 00:26:19,812 --> 00:26:21,046 - I have to stop you for a second 663 00:26:21,113 --> 00:26:23,515 because you can't just sit there 664 00:26:23,615 --> 00:26:28,645 and pretend that we didn't see clearly what is on this video. 665 00:26:28,679 --> 00:26:30,088 - You don't have the context. 666 00:26:30,155 --> 00:26:32,024 Are my methods unorthodox? 667 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:33,684 Absolutely. 668 00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,520 But the use of touch, so long as it's non-sexual, 669 00:26:36,553 --> 00:26:37,896 has been very effective. 670 00:26:37,996 --> 00:26:40,182 - You call that there non-sexual? 671 00:26:40,249 --> 00:26:41,200 Yeah? 672 00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:42,701 Do you know what that word means? 673 00:26:42,801 --> 00:26:46,038 - Nothing that has transpired between my clients and myself 674 00:26:46,104 --> 00:26:47,539 has ever been sexual. 675 00:26:47,606 --> 00:26:49,708 - Mm-hmm. - Well, not for me. 676 00:26:49,808 --> 00:26:53,770 I don't derive any benefit or pleasure from these sessions. 677 00:26:53,871 --> 00:26:56,215 - Yeah, well, neither was she. She was in tears! 678 00:26:56,281 --> 00:26:59,510 She said "no," "stop," multiple times! 679 00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:03,180 - And if I told a surgeon, "no, don't sew up that incision 680 00:27:03,213 --> 00:27:04,857 you just made," would he stop? 681 00:27:04,923 --> 00:27:06,416 - I think I get it. 682 00:27:06,517 --> 00:27:08,227 So what you're saying is that sometimes when 683 00:27:08,293 --> 00:27:11,088 a person is feeling vulnerable, right, 684 00:27:11,188 --> 00:27:13,790 they just--they just wanna be held. 685 00:27:13,891 --> 00:27:15,192 - Exactly. 686 00:27:15,259 --> 00:27:18,070 The level of this therapy is so intense, 687 00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:20,597 you have to experience it to understand. 688 00:27:22,866 --> 00:27:25,811 I think someone like you would benefit from it, Captain. 689 00:27:25,878 --> 00:27:29,114 [tense music] 690 00:27:29,181 --> 00:27:31,984 - Well, that is, uh, so kind of you to think of me. 691 00:27:32,017 --> 00:27:34,269 Um, 692 00:27:34,303 --> 00:27:37,381 where was Dr. Catmull during all of this? 693 00:27:37,447 --> 00:27:40,025 - Uh, I don't recall exactly. He may have been on a break. 694 00:27:40,092 --> 00:27:42,294 - The other two patients that got your special, 695 00:27:42,361 --> 00:27:45,664 uh, hands-on care, where was Dr. Catmull for those? 696 00:27:47,232 --> 00:27:48,659 - I would have to check the videos. 697 00:27:48,725 --> 00:27:49,793 - He wasn't there. 698 00:27:49,893 --> 00:27:51,336 Every single time. 699 00:27:53,772 --> 00:27:57,601 Honestly, you're real smart, Doctor. 700 00:27:57,668 --> 00:27:59,711 You're smarter than me. 701 00:27:59,778 --> 00:28:03,348 You're smarter than most people who sit in that chair. 702 00:28:03,448 --> 00:28:05,108 I mean, 703 00:28:05,175 --> 00:28:06,618 creating your own hunting ground 704 00:28:06,685 --> 00:28:09,721 and then hiding behind a clinical trial, 705 00:28:09,788 --> 00:28:12,274 and then having your victims sign up for it themselves. 706 00:28:12,341 --> 00:28:15,777 That is, uh-- that is brilliant. 707 00:28:15,844 --> 00:28:17,829 - Regular genius. 708 00:28:17,896 --> 00:28:19,998 - But you're no different 709 00:28:20,098 --> 00:28:22,960 than every other predator. 710 00:28:23,026 --> 00:28:24,319 You know that. 711 00:28:24,353 --> 00:28:27,639 And now everyone else will, too, 712 00:28:27,739 --> 00:28:30,867 because we have it all on video. 713 00:28:30,934 --> 00:28:35,472 ♪ ♪ 714 00:28:35,539 --> 00:28:37,774 - Captain Curry. 715 00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:40,586 Executive Officer. Look at you, rising the ranks. 716 00:28:40,652 --> 00:28:42,321 - Thanks, Chief. - Here for CompStat? 717 00:28:42,387 --> 00:28:43,488 - Yeah, my first one. 718 00:28:43,555 --> 00:28:44,881 - Better not be late. 719 00:28:44,982 --> 00:28:46,892 - Hey, I'll catch up with you. 720 00:28:46,959 --> 00:28:48,393 Griff. 721 00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:50,062 - Hey, Captain. 722 00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:51,830 Wow, you're all dressed up. 723 00:28:51,897 --> 00:28:53,365 - Yeah, well, CompStat meeting, 724 00:28:53,432 --> 00:28:55,601 so I had to drag this thing out. 725 00:28:55,634 --> 00:28:58,170 Little, uh, field trip to the records room? 726 00:28:58,236 --> 00:28:59,471 - Uh, yeah. 727 00:28:59,538 --> 00:29:01,340 Yeah, Cap asked me to pull some old case files. 728 00:29:01,406 --> 00:29:03,075 Thinks we might have a repeat offender. 729 00:29:03,141 --> 00:29:04,309 - Hmm. 730 00:29:04,343 --> 00:29:05,611 I didn't hear anything about that. 731 00:29:05,677 --> 00:29:06,945 - Yeah. 732 00:29:06,979 --> 00:29:08,171 Well, hey, we miss you up there. 733 00:29:08,205 --> 00:29:09,206 I gotta go. 734 00:29:13,952 --> 00:29:16,913 - Hey, I just arraigned Severson, and-- 735 00:29:17,014 --> 00:29:18,156 you're not gonna believe this, 736 00:29:18,223 --> 00:29:19,341 but he pled to the entire indictment. 737 00:29:19,408 --> 00:29:20,325 - You're kidding. 738 00:29:20,392 --> 00:29:22,094 - The judge gave him 15 years. 739 00:29:22,194 --> 00:29:24,563 - For three rapes? [scoffs] 740 00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:26,256 - Look, Amanda, I'm not upset about this, 741 00:29:26,323 --> 00:29:27,758 and you shouldn't be either. 742 00:29:27,824 --> 00:29:30,268 This case in no way was gonna be a slam dunk. 743 00:29:30,369 --> 00:29:31,853 The video was inconclusive. 744 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,673 Even if April and the other two victims were ready to testify, 745 00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:37,234 they were in an experimental treatment program. 746 00:29:37,334 --> 00:29:39,044 That was always gonna be tricky with the jury. 747 00:29:39,111 --> 00:29:40,912 To be honest, I'm surprised this lawyer 748 00:29:40,979 --> 00:29:42,205 didn't wanna go to trial. 749 00:29:42,272 --> 00:29:44,700 - Oh, my God, he's protecting his study. 750 00:29:45,884 --> 00:29:47,536 - From what? - Scrutiny. 751 00:29:47,602 --> 00:29:50,622 Look, Severson is a creep. 752 00:29:50,656 --> 00:29:52,391 He's a predator. 753 00:29:52,491 --> 00:29:54,951 But he is a true believer in his therapy. 754 00:29:55,018 --> 00:29:56,695 - He'll take the hit so his company doesn't. 755 00:29:56,762 --> 00:29:58,463 - And Serolyte had all the videos of Severson. 756 00:29:58,563 --> 00:30:00,232 They knew what he was doing. 757 00:30:00,298 --> 00:30:02,059 And they did nothing? 758 00:30:02,125 --> 00:30:04,294 - And it's despicable, but unfortunately, 759 00:30:04,361 --> 00:30:05,629 they don't have a duty to report-- 760 00:30:05,696 --> 00:30:06,722 - So they get off on a technicality? 761 00:30:06,788 --> 00:30:08,240 Come on. 762 00:30:08,306 --> 00:30:09,875 [suspenseful music] 763 00:30:09,941 --> 00:30:11,735 - Don't--don't look at me like that, all right? 764 00:30:11,802 --> 00:30:13,612 For once, I'd like to be able to stay within my jurisdiction 765 00:30:13,712 --> 00:30:14,971 when it comes to you, Liv. 766 00:30:15,038 --> 00:30:18,900 ♪ ♪ 767 00:30:18,967 --> 00:30:19,985 [scoffs] 768 00:30:23,622 --> 00:30:27,459 We can't charge Serolyte criminally. 769 00:30:27,526 --> 00:30:29,653 But we can try to shut 'em down. 770 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:36,293 ♪ ♪ 771 00:30:37,436 --> 00:30:39,705 - Sonny, gotta say, shutting down 772 00:30:39,771 --> 00:30:42,933 an entire corporation because of one bad apple 773 00:30:42,999 --> 00:30:44,468 doesn't sit well with me. 774 00:30:44,568 --> 00:30:45,977 Serolyte seems to be getting some good results 775 00:30:46,078 --> 00:30:47,471 out of this drug. 776 00:30:47,571 --> 00:30:49,114 - Well, I have no issue with protryptamine, 777 00:30:49,214 --> 00:30:51,283 psychedelics in general, when they're handled appropriately. 778 00:30:51,383 --> 00:30:53,935 But what I do have an issue with is poor oversight 779 00:30:54,002 --> 00:30:56,988 and not paying attention when a doctor assaults his patients. 780 00:30:57,055 --> 00:30:58,390 - And that man is going to prison. 781 00:30:58,457 --> 00:31:01,093 - But that does nothing to solve the underlying issue. 782 00:31:01,159 --> 00:31:03,186 Look, their complete lack of oversight 783 00:31:03,253 --> 00:31:05,163 has created the perfect conditions 784 00:31:05,263 --> 00:31:06,690 for this to happen again with another doctor. 785 00:31:06,790 --> 00:31:08,784 - I'm not saying we don't take a look. 786 00:31:08,850 --> 00:31:10,360 But shutting down the company could 787 00:31:10,460 --> 00:31:11,928 shut down the entire pursuit of this treatment. 788 00:31:11,962 --> 00:31:13,338 - But if you do nothing, then patients 789 00:31:13,438 --> 00:31:14,539 are gonna stay vulnerable. 790 00:31:16,633 --> 00:31:19,336 Look, listen, how about this? 791 00:31:22,013 --> 00:31:24,416 Cross-designate me. 792 00:31:24,483 --> 00:31:26,543 Let me take it on. 793 00:31:26,610 --> 00:31:28,620 - [sighs] 794 00:31:28,653 --> 00:31:30,847 ♪ ♪ 795 00:31:35,585 --> 00:31:35,727 . 796 00:31:35,952 --> 00:31:38,330 - She said both doctors would be in the room at all times, 797 00:31:38,363 --> 00:31:40,557 for my protection and theirs. 798 00:31:40,657 --> 00:31:41,833 - And did Ms. Fuentes have you sign 799 00:31:41,867 --> 00:31:44,736 a consent form for your sessions to be recorded? 800 00:31:44,803 --> 00:31:46,405 - I did. 801 00:31:46,505 --> 00:31:49,007 They said it was for the study, and no one else would see them. 802 00:31:49,107 --> 00:31:51,143 - And I'm assuming that you did not consent 803 00:31:51,176 --> 00:31:53,845 to either doctor lying under a blanket with you 804 00:31:53,945 --> 00:31:55,480 and touching your body. 805 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:57,574 - No, absolutely not. 806 00:31:57,674 --> 00:32:00,585 - And did Ms. Fuentes or anyone else 807 00:32:00,652 --> 00:32:03,255 from Serolyte Pharmaceuticals ever reach out to you 808 00:32:03,355 --> 00:32:05,891 about what was on your recorded video sessions? 809 00:32:05,991 --> 00:32:07,083 - No. 810 00:32:07,184 --> 00:32:08,760 - Even after Dr. Severson was arrested 811 00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:10,195 for sexually assaulting you? 812 00:32:10,295 --> 00:32:11,563 - Not a word. 813 00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:12,931 - Thank you, Ms. Deieso. 814 00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:14,199 No further questions, Your Honor. 815 00:32:14,232 --> 00:32:16,026 - Ms. Rettstadt, your witness. 816 00:32:16,092 --> 00:32:18,103 - Ms. Deieso, 817 00:32:18,170 --> 00:32:21,106 what you endured at the hands of Dr. Severson 818 00:32:21,206 --> 00:32:22,507 was reprehensible. 819 00:32:22,541 --> 00:32:23,809 And I don't wanna put you through a long list 820 00:32:23,842 --> 00:32:25,310 of questions, so I'll be quick, all right? 821 00:32:25,377 --> 00:32:26,736 - Okay. 822 00:32:26,770 --> 00:32:28,613 - I really just have one. 823 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,615 Did this therapy help you? 824 00:32:33,084 --> 00:32:35,412 - I don't know how-- 825 00:32:35,445 --> 00:32:38,757 I was assaulted. 826 00:32:38,857 --> 00:32:39,791 Raped. 827 00:32:39,891 --> 00:32:41,359 - I know. 828 00:32:41,460 --> 00:32:43,361 But that's not what I'm asking. 829 00:32:43,428 --> 00:32:45,730 You had been treated for PTSD. 830 00:32:45,764 --> 00:32:47,566 Is that still your diagnosis? 831 00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:49,100 - He's a monster. - I don't disagree. 832 00:32:49,201 --> 00:32:50,635 He is. 833 00:32:50,702 --> 00:32:54,105 And according to your post-clinical trial follow-up, 834 00:32:54,206 --> 00:32:58,176 your PTSD is, medically speaking, no longer present. 835 00:32:58,243 --> 00:32:59,769 So I'll ask again. 836 00:32:59,803 --> 00:33:02,280 Did it help you? 837 00:33:02,380 --> 00:33:05,150 [tense music] 838 00:33:05,250 --> 00:33:08,311 ♪ ♪ 839 00:33:08,411 --> 00:33:13,483 - When I wake up at night, I feel like I'm being choked. 840 00:33:13,583 --> 00:33:15,085 I feel hands on me. 841 00:33:15,151 --> 00:33:19,064 Feel him on top of me over a year later. 842 00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:20,765 I think about what would have happened 843 00:33:20,866 --> 00:33:22,567 if Dr. Severson hadn't done this to me, 844 00:33:22,601 --> 00:33:24,794 what that life would have been like. 845 00:33:24,828 --> 00:33:27,998 I'll never know. 846 00:33:28,064 --> 00:33:32,010 I just don't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. 847 00:33:32,110 --> 00:33:39,142 ♪ ♪ 848 00:33:41,086 --> 00:33:43,989 - Ms. Fuentes, your company has safeguards in place 849 00:33:44,022 --> 00:33:45,790 to prevent sexual abuse, correct? 850 00:33:45,891 --> 00:33:47,150 - Yes, we do. 851 00:33:47,183 --> 00:33:49,594 - For example, you require two therapists 852 00:33:49,628 --> 00:33:52,797 to be present for the entire duration of every session. 853 00:33:52,831 --> 00:33:53,932 - Correct. 854 00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:55,166 - And you also require that each session 855 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,334 be recorded on video. 856 00:33:56,434 --> 00:33:57,802 - Yes. 857 00:33:57,903 --> 00:34:01,039 - But that didn't really stop Dr. Severson, though, did it? 858 00:34:01,106 --> 00:34:04,709 - We were horrified by his criminal actions. 859 00:34:04,809 --> 00:34:07,312 But to say that one bad actor is indicative 860 00:34:07,379 --> 00:34:09,773 of our entire company is false. 861 00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:11,816 - Right, because you know for certain that 862 00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:13,852 there was only one bad actor. 863 00:34:13,952 --> 00:34:15,253 You got the videos, right? 864 00:34:15,287 --> 00:34:17,280 So if anything inappropriate had happened, 865 00:34:17,347 --> 00:34:18,890 well, you would have seen that. 866 00:34:21,626 --> 00:34:25,730 You do record every session, don't you, Dr. Fuentes? 867 00:34:25,797 --> 00:34:27,057 - Yes. 868 00:34:27,123 --> 00:34:28,967 - And have you ever seen a therapist 869 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,835 leave a session when they weren't supposed to? 870 00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:32,203 - I never saw that. 871 00:34:32,304 --> 00:34:33,805 - No? In all those videos? 872 00:34:33,872 --> 00:34:35,273 That's astonishing. 873 00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:37,576 I mean, how many hours would you say there are? 874 00:34:37,676 --> 00:34:39,578 There's gotta be thousands. - Yes. 875 00:34:39,644 --> 00:34:41,346 - And approximately how many hours of those sessions 876 00:34:41,446 --> 00:34:42,706 did you watch? 877 00:34:44,407 --> 00:34:46,584 - I haven't had an opportunity to review. 878 00:34:46,685 --> 00:34:48,353 - You never watch the videos 879 00:34:48,453 --> 00:34:50,255 that you require for the purpose 880 00:34:50,355 --> 00:34:51,690 of protecting your patients? 881 00:34:51,756 --> 00:34:53,658 - Me, personally? No. 882 00:34:53,758 --> 00:34:55,860 - Okay, not personally, but who does? 883 00:34:55,961 --> 00:34:57,696 - You have to understand. 884 00:34:57,729 --> 00:34:59,631 We keep the videos as records. 885 00:34:59,664 --> 00:35:01,091 We simply don't have the manpower 886 00:35:01,157 --> 00:35:02,534 to review that much footage. 887 00:35:02,634 --> 00:35:04,502 We're a research-focused entity. 888 00:35:04,602 --> 00:35:06,137 - Whose primary purpose should have been 889 00:35:06,204 --> 00:35:09,040 to keep your patients safe. 890 00:35:09,074 --> 00:35:11,109 And if you had done your job, 891 00:35:11,209 --> 00:35:13,536 then you would have seen three women, 892 00:35:13,603 --> 00:35:15,847 the very people that you were supposed to protect, 893 00:35:15,914 --> 00:35:17,407 be assaulted by one of your doctors. 894 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,950 Isn't that true? 895 00:35:21,186 --> 00:35:23,321 - Yes. 896 00:35:23,388 --> 00:35:26,291 - Nothing further. 897 00:35:26,358 --> 00:35:28,126 - Ms. Fuentes, you may step down. 898 00:35:32,664 --> 00:35:34,366 Both counsel, approach. 899 00:35:34,399 --> 00:35:41,473 ♪ ♪ 900 00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:46,878 Ms. Rettstadt, if things keep going the way they're going, 901 00:35:46,945 --> 00:35:48,646 I'm inclined to rule in favor 902 00:35:48,713 --> 00:35:49,948 of the attorney general's office. 903 00:35:50,048 --> 00:35:51,149 - Your Honor, I-- 904 00:35:51,249 --> 00:35:52,917 - However, I also understand 905 00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:55,053 that Serolyte Pharmaceuticals 906 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,581 is at the forefront of a breakthrough medication 907 00:35:58,648 --> 00:36:01,026 that has the potential to change the face 908 00:36:01,092 --> 00:36:03,061 of mental health treatment, 909 00:36:03,128 --> 00:36:05,463 perhaps under the right leadership-- 910 00:36:05,497 --> 00:36:06,564 - Hold on, Your Honor. 911 00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:08,099 - The Serolyte board would not object 912 00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:09,934 to removing Ms. Fuentes from her position 913 00:36:09,968 --> 00:36:11,836 as CEO, Your Honor. 914 00:36:11,903 --> 00:36:14,998 - In that case, I'd be inclined to deny the attorney general's 915 00:36:15,098 --> 00:36:16,775 application to shut them down. 916 00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:18,843 - Your Honor, respectfully, I disagree. 917 00:36:18,943 --> 00:36:20,712 Three women have been victimized on Serolyte's watch. 918 00:36:20,779 --> 00:36:23,515 - Victimized by Dr. Severson, who's out of the picture. 919 00:36:23,615 --> 00:36:26,484 - Did SVU find any other instances 920 00:36:26,518 --> 00:36:28,511 of therapists abusing patients? 921 00:36:28,611 --> 00:36:29,679 - No, they did not. 922 00:36:29,779 --> 00:36:31,848 But the potential for abuse is there. 923 00:36:31,948 --> 00:36:34,859 And unless we shut them down until real changes are made, 924 00:36:34,926 --> 00:36:36,094 it'll stay there. 925 00:36:36,127 --> 00:36:38,254 - I admire your passion, Mr. Carisi, 926 00:36:38,321 --> 00:36:40,865 but I don't think you've made your case. 927 00:36:40,932 --> 00:36:42,801 You're welcome to take an appeal. 928 00:36:42,834 --> 00:36:43,868 Step back. 929 00:36:43,968 --> 00:36:50,959 ♪ ♪ 930 00:36:54,846 --> 00:36:57,282 - Well, you went down swinging, Sonny. 931 00:36:57,348 --> 00:36:58,708 I'll give you that. 932 00:36:58,775 --> 00:37:01,286 - Yeah, well, thanks for a spot on the team. 933 00:37:01,319 --> 00:37:03,813 - Any time. - Take care. 934 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,658 Well, you warned me that we were punching above our weight. 935 00:37:06,758 --> 00:37:08,126 - Yeah, I did. 936 00:37:08,226 --> 00:37:11,730 - So you're not gonna give me the "I told you so" speech? 937 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:20,071 - When I was a kid, my mom had an abortion. 938 00:37:20,171 --> 00:37:21,573 Nearly killed her Catholic heart, 939 00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:22,607 but the baby would have been born 940 00:37:22,674 --> 00:37:24,275 with all kinds of problems. 941 00:37:24,342 --> 00:37:27,846 All this information came out about this antidepressant 942 00:37:27,879 --> 00:37:30,081 that she was using off and on. 943 00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:32,809 And I remember this fancy lawyer, he came to our house, 944 00:37:32,876 --> 00:37:36,588 and he wanted her to join a class-action lawsuit. 945 00:37:36,688 --> 00:37:38,757 He told us that hundreds of babies 946 00:37:38,823 --> 00:37:41,793 had been born with birth defects because of that drug. 947 00:37:41,860 --> 00:37:43,561 - What did she do? 948 00:37:43,661 --> 00:37:46,364 - The class action was denied certification. 949 00:37:46,464 --> 00:37:47,999 Case never went to trial. 950 00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:50,393 My mom, she--she couldn't afford to file 951 00:37:50,426 --> 00:37:53,571 an individual claim, so-- 952 00:37:53,671 --> 00:37:55,356 so that was that. 953 00:37:58,643 --> 00:38:02,113 - Carisi, Severson is behind bars. 954 00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:06,176 Removing Fuentes is definitely gonna shake things up. 955 00:38:06,242 --> 00:38:09,120 You didn't really lose this case today. 956 00:38:10,355 --> 00:38:12,690 - Look at you with the pep talk. 957 00:38:12,757 --> 00:38:15,593 Usually I'm the one telling you that we did all we could. 958 00:38:15,627 --> 00:38:17,587 - Well, people change. 959 00:38:28,006 --> 00:38:29,073 - What's this? 960 00:38:29,107 --> 00:38:31,943 - A few files that you missed. 961 00:38:31,976 --> 00:38:33,570 This one was a killer. 962 00:38:33,636 --> 00:38:36,406 So the witness turned out to be a fabulist, 963 00:38:36,472 --> 00:38:38,149 just makes up a whole bunch of details, 964 00:38:38,216 --> 00:38:41,219 and then--and then the whole case fell apart at trial. 965 00:38:41,286 --> 00:38:42,754 - Captain, I can explain what's going-- 966 00:38:42,787 --> 00:38:45,481 - I don't know why you're pulling my old cases. 967 00:38:45,548 --> 00:38:48,585 I suspect it's because somebody told you to. 968 00:38:48,651 --> 00:38:50,428 So you go ahead, Griff. 969 00:38:50,528 --> 00:38:53,498 You look into anything you want. 970 00:38:53,565 --> 00:38:56,234 Because I don't have any secrets. 971 00:38:56,301 --> 00:38:58,102 And whatever mistakes I've made--and I'm sure 972 00:38:58,203 --> 00:39:01,639 there have been a ton-- 973 00:39:01,673 --> 00:39:03,466 I stand by. 974 00:39:05,610 --> 00:39:06,594 - Wait. 975 00:39:08,379 --> 00:39:09,647 Look at this. 976 00:39:09,747 --> 00:39:11,841 - What is that? 977 00:39:11,908 --> 00:39:16,412 - It's from a shooting in a bar in the Upper West Side in 2001. 978 00:39:16,479 --> 00:39:17,622 Look at it. 979 00:39:17,655 --> 00:39:20,625 Involving a Lieutenant Jimmy Griffin. 980 00:39:20,692 --> 00:39:24,062 [suspenseful music] 981 00:39:24,128 --> 00:39:26,364 And Detective Kathryn Tynan. 982 00:39:26,464 --> 00:39:28,433 ♪ ♪ 983 00:39:28,466 --> 00:39:31,336 Yeah, you're right, I was tasked into looking 984 00:39:31,436 --> 00:39:34,272 into your old cases, okay? 985 00:39:34,372 --> 00:39:38,042 And I used that as cover to dig that up. 986 00:39:38,142 --> 00:39:43,147 ♪ ♪ 987 00:39:43,248 --> 00:39:45,508 - What are you planning on doing with this, Griff? 988 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,389 - I'm gonna find out the truth. 989 00:39:51,489 --> 00:39:53,850 And I'm gonna give that to the commissioner. 990 00:39:56,027 --> 00:39:59,764 I--I don't care what happens to me. 991 00:39:59,831 --> 00:40:04,294 I don't care what happens to my dad's legacy after this. 992 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,238 Legacy--like, what the hell does that even mean? 993 00:40:10,541 --> 00:40:12,410 Tynan--I mean, you know this. 994 00:40:12,477 --> 00:40:14,662 Tynan--she's been there for me... 995 00:40:16,314 --> 00:40:20,084 Through some very hard times, okay? 996 00:40:22,979 --> 00:40:26,507 I--I cannot take any of this anymore. 997 00:40:28,593 --> 00:40:31,587 I gotta know. I gotta know the truth. 998 00:40:31,688 --> 00:40:34,599 - This is gonna blow everything up. 999 00:40:34,699 --> 00:40:41,039 ♪ ♪ 1000 00:40:41,139 --> 00:40:42,774 Are you ready for that? 1001 00:40:47,345 --> 00:40:48,446 - No. 1002 00:40:51,849 --> 00:40:53,818 Are you? 1003 00:40:53,885 --> 00:41:00,958 ♪ ♪ 1004 00:41:05,863 --> 00:41:06,047 . 1005 00:41:06,155 --> 00:41:08,966 [dramatic music] 1006 00:41:09,067 --> 00:41:16,057 ♪ ♪ 1007 00:41:35,493 --> 00:41:38,454 [wolf howls]