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The following programme contains
strong language and sexual images.

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MAN: ..and single, Holiday, and...

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Hi, this is Madonna on Countdown
and here's my-

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I have to say,
"Hi, this is Madonna?"

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Yeah. Well, whatever you...
(CHUCKLES)

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Hi, I'm Madonna?
Yeah.

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Hi, I'm Madonna on Countdown,

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and this is my new single
and video, Holiday.

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(SINGULAR APPLAUSE)
I've always felt like

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such an outsider,
like such a misfit,

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like such a weirdo.

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What do I say?
And I felt a freak.

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And I felt like I could never
fit in with...

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the prom queens and the cheerleaders
and the perfect girls.

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I was really down on myself.

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MAN: Does the name which you've
grown up with mean anything to you?

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MADONNA:
It means a great deal to me.

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It's my mother's name, and I love
my mother, so there's a link.

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And she died, of course.
Yeah.

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Come here, brother.
This is my brother, Christopher.

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He dances with me.

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CICCONE: She was
our mother's namesake,

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and her name was Madonna.

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I mean, it either crushes you

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or it elevates you
to something else.

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BARBONE: Her ambition was there,

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and it's what drove her to go
through a whole lot of suffering

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to get where she was going.

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I mean,
she did not have an easy life.

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ROSENBLATT: There was this star

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just fucking radiating,
who was looking for a deal.

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She said,
"I want to rule the world."

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What does this mean?
Does that mean "good."

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OK.

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I think she's awesome, man.
She's great.

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You can really dance to her music.

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REPORTER: Madonna sells
more than 75,000 records a day.

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Not bad for a 25-year-old
girl from Michigan.

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NEWSREADER: Madonna, the sultry
singer who has parlayed a trampy,

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trashy style,
is about to be exposed, literally.

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MADONNA: I kept seeing myself
through macho heterosexual eyes.

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I suddenly thought,

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"That's not the only way
that I have to be."

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ORECK: Being a female in American

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culture is that you are
supposed to be a whore,

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but you're not supposed to say
you're a whore.

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MAN: She was ruthless...
(LAUGHS) ..in a good way.

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I mean, look what it got her.

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MADONNA: Most people
wanna call me trash and a slut

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because I'm open
about what I'm doing.

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I don't wanna have
any sense of shame about it,

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and I don't wanna have
any sense of regret.

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Why should I?

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(TRAFFIC RUMBLES)

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Part of the reason
I sort of shot out like a cannon

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out of Michigan and like, left home
at such an early age was because...

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I had to feel independent.

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(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)

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But I was going to be somebody
and I was going to make something
out of my life,

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and I was not gonna spend
the rest of my life

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in the boring Midwestern suburbs.

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("NEAT NEAT NEAT" CONTINUES)

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When I came to New York, it was the
first time I'd ever taken a plane.

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It was the first time
I'd ever gotten in a taxicab.

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I'd never been to a big city
like that before.

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New York's really overwhelming
when you're 17.

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I came here not knowing anyone,
with $35 in my pocket.

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It was the bravest thing
I've ever done,

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and my goal was to conquer the city.

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(MUSIC ENDS)

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(WHISTLE BLOWS)
(CARS HONK)

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INSTRUCTOR: OK.

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OK, here we go.

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(CLASSICAL PIECE PLAYS)

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MADONNA: Originally,
I'd come to New York as a dancer.

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You know,
I danced in a lot of companies

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while I was living in New York,

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but it wasn't
fulfilling enough for me.

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Most of the kids
in my ballet classes,

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they were these really, like,
spoiled little bratty girls.

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They didn't know anything
about music or art.

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They were really boring to me.

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And I found myself rebelling.

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And I cut my hair really short,

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greased it so it'd be
sticking all up,

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and I'd rip up all my tights

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and make a big cut
down the middle of my leotard,

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and put safety pins
all the way up it.

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Just anything to, like, stand out

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from them and say,
"I'm not like you, OK?"

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(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

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And that's when I started
exploring other territories

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and really quitting, like,
going to my dance classes every day.

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I'm gonna come in,
walk in the door and say,
"Oh, it was a rough day at work."

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And I started hanging out
with people in the art world

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and the sort of the downtown
Lower East Side scene and musicians.

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But it wasn't, um...

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It wasn't that planned out.

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I think what was most spectacular
about the time

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was the diversity of the music.

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It was a big mish mash of things.

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You had discos going on,

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you had dance starting.

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The punk scene was just gigantic.

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There were a ton of clubs.

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There was CBGB's,
there was the Mudd Club,

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there was Max's Kansas City,
the Bitter End, the Bottom Line.

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You could see live music
from eight o'clock at night

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'till four in the morning.

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The times in mainstream America

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were very, very conservative.

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On top, you had
Reagan running for president,

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and they would say
the Moral Majority.

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I can only add to that, my friends,

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that I continue to look
at the scriptures today

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for fulfilment and for guidance.

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But underneath,
you had all this creativity.

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Music was just exploding.

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Afrika Bambaataa
would be hanging out

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with the Beastie Boys
and David Byrne from Talking Heads.

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It's all, like, new wave,

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and who didn't fit really any mould.

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But that scene,
that existed because

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New York was a shithole,

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and they could afford
to live with no money.

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REPORTER: Last year,
major crimes on New York's subways

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rose 17% over the previous year.

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Nearly 5,000 robberies,

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24 rapes, 20 murders,
600 aggravated assaults.

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MADONNA: I lived in this place
with all these prostitutes.

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I was often mistaken
for a prostitute

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when I went down the street.

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I never thought I would get used to
seeing people laying on the street,

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living their life publicly
on a sidewalk.

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I was in shock.

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(SIREN WAILS)

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GILROY:
I met Madonna at a May Day party.

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(UPBEAT MUSIC)

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We interacted a little,
and then we were in the bathroom

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'cause she needed help
with something,

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and she said, "Aren't you
going to kiss me?" (LAUGHS)

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And so I did.

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She had come with somebody,
and we left together.

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I don't know what happened
to that poor fellow.

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She knew I was living
in this former synagogue,

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which was in bad disrepair.

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And after a while, she moved in.

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My brother, Ed, and I
always had bands.

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Right outside our bedroom,

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we had the drums and the guitar,
it was just a big studio space.

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Madonna just loved that.

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MADONNA: They had a band already,

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and it was called
The Breakfast Club.

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He went off to work every day
with his brother,

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and I kind of
stayed there and used

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their studio all day long
until they came back to practice.

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See, I kept wanting to play
in their band and they kept saying,

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"No, you know,
there's no opening, sorry."

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So, for a year,
I just locked myself away

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and taught myself to play
drums and guitar and piano.

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So, I had enough knowledge
to write music,

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and then the songs just started
coming, you know, like crazy.

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And then the drummer quit.

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Then they finally
let me be in their band.

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GILROY: She had a real good
sense of rhythm,

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and I guess that was
'cause of the dance background.

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Yeah, you couldn't help
but be impressed.

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She was not a big person,
but she could hit powerfully.

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In that year and a half,

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she wrote so many songs.

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Every few days,
she'd come up with some new song

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about her experience
and what she was feeling,

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and the separation anxiety
from being away from home.

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"Letter From Daddy"
was one that she wrote.

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And here's what he had to say

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Come home...

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She was disappointed
that he was disappointed

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in her leaving home,
coming to New York.

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And she had a line in that song,

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"You loved the dream
you had for me."

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I'm afraid to come home.

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It was hard to blame her father
for being worried.

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I mean, she came to New York
with nothing.

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Just her wits.

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(LAUGHS) Oh, man.

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(SIREN WAILS)

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(TENSE MUSIC)

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PRIEST: From age to age,
you gather a people to yourself...

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CICCONE: My father and mother
were very religious

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and very Catholic.

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..of the body and blood of your son,

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our Lord, Jesus Christ...

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Ten Commandments
and sacraments, etcetera.

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My father was
a first-generation immigrant.

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MADONNA: His presents
came over on the boat from Italy,

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and are real disciplinarian,
very strict.

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Very old fashioned,

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traditional, macho, Italian world.

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The girls got all the lectures,
and we were told about modesty.

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We had curfews
and we had to dress a certain way,

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and we had to behave a certain way,
and my brothers...

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could do whatever they wanted.

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When we got home from school,
we changed our clothes,

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we did our chores,
we did our homework,

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we ate dinner, we weren't
allowed to watch television,

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and it was a very
kind of regimented life.

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He didn't like us to have idle time.

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He thought that we should
always be productive.

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You know, me saying, "Well,
I don't want to go to college.

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I want to go to New York."

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You know,
it just didn't make any sense to him

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because it seems like a hobby.
You know what I mean?

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Not something serious. Something
that you could make a living at.

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GILROY:
The band was doing pretty well.

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But then at some point,
she wanted to be the singer,

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which, you know, wasn't my thing.
I wanted to sing and play.

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You know,
I didn't want to be a side person.

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She wanted to
be the star of the show.

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MADONNA: I begged them
and begged them for months

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to let me sing one song.

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And then they did,
and then I got a taste of that,

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and I didn't want to play
the drums anymore.

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I wanted to play more songs,
and eventually, they booted me out

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because I was hogging
all the space, you know.

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GILROY: That more or less
was the end of it, yeah.

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That part was over, the romance.

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(AMBIENT STREET NOISE)

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The club scenes all over New York

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were fed by all the people
in the Music Building,

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which is where I had
my recording studio.

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It's filthy,
it's dirty, it's grungy.

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There are policemen doing busts,
you know, in hallways.

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And this is where
Madonna was living.

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Of looking at people...

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MADONNA: This guy that I knew
from Detroit, Stephen Bray,

247
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,600
he had a lot of musical training,
and he could play every instrument.

248
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,680
He had been playing
with a lot of different groups,

249
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,880
and he had the keys
to a lot of rehearsal studios.

250
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,840
BRAY: The Music Building
is a really magical place.

251
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,400
You know, you catch a snippet
of vocal and, like, guitar riffs.

252
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,560
The echo of a snare drum.

253
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,840
It's like an ocean of sound.

254
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,360
Madonna and I,
we came to basically live there.

255
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,400
(CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC)

256
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,760
Madonna has the grit,

257
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,800
she's just got that kind
of willpower.

258
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,280
Midwestern people
are hardworking people.

259
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,440
And if you want to survive,
you have to...

260
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,360
be willing to put in the time
and put in the effort,

261
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,400
and things aren't given to you.

262
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,520
BARBONE: One day I forgot my keys.

263
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,600
And I'm knocking on the door,

264
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,440
and her face
comes right into the square,

265
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,680
and she opened the door for me.
I said, "Thanks a lot,"

266
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,920
and she said, "You're gonna
open doors for me someday,"

267
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,280
and just walked past me.

268
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,000
BRAY: Well, we were
aware of Camille.

269
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,080
She was the closest thing we had
to, sort of, management.

270
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,360
So, Madonna being Madonna, was very,
very much aware of that, I'm sure.

271
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,480
BARBONE: She understood

272
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,960
that I had contacts
in the music business.

273
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,960
She made it a point to see me

274
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
and talk to me as much as she could.

275
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,160
I said, "When's your next gig?
I'll be there."

276
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,840
And that was it.

277
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,120
Madonna had aspirations
for a Blondie kind of thing.

278
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,160
It was rock music.

279
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,000


280
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,800


281
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,400
It was what was being played

282
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,600
in the clubs,
it had nothing to do with dance.

283
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,480


284
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,080


285
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,160


286
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,440

I'm a hothouse flower...

287
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,480
There was something about her
that kept me mesmerised.

288
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,720
She had a sense of performance
that doesn't exist in people

289
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,040
that have been performing
for years and years.

290
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,960
(VOCALISING)

291
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,720
I had made my decision.

292
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,600
I was gonna sign her.

293
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,000
(SONG CONCLUDES)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

294
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,120
But I had to fire that band.

295
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,280
I fired the band
because they were just OK

296
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,240
as far as musicians are concerned.

297
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,720
BRAY: I knew that Madonna planned

298
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,280
to break up the band

299
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,120
and work with Camille.

300
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,720
I was disappointed but, you know,
these things happen, right?

301
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,560
People have to move on.

302
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,440
There was sadness around it,

303
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,080
but I was glad
she was pursuing her dream.

304
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,720
BARBONE:
We came together with the desire

305
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,920
to make this happen no matter what.

306
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,120
Her ambition was there,

307
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,160
and it's what drove her
to go through

308
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,720
a whole lot of suffering
to get where she was going.

309
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,000
I mean,
she did not have an easy life.

310
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,040
INTERVIEWER: But does the name

311
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,000
which you've grown up with
mean anything to you?

312
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,440
MADONNA: It means a great deal
to me. It's my mother's name.

313
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,920
And she died, of course.
Yeah.

314
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,960
You lost her very early in life.
Yeah.

315
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,520
What happened...

316
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,560
you know, when I was six years old,

317
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,120
it just was
the greatest event of my life.

318
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,760
It was like a part
of my heart was ripped out.

319
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,440
What do you remember about her?

320
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,200
That she was beautiful

321
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,200
and sweet

322
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,600
and... a hard worker.

323
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,440
I wonder how much of...

324
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,480
of her is in you?

325
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,520
Yeah, well, I'll never know.

326
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,840
I was forced to grow up fast
and understand my mother's death,

327
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,920
to understand the psychological,

328
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,120
like, all the things
that were going on,

329
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,160
it's too much for a child, I think.

330
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,520
CICCONE:
I think when my mother died,

331
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,360
things changed emotionally
with everybody.

332
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,960
I know my father
put a great deal more

333
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,000
pressure on her

334
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,480
to be... our guide.

335
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,200
She was my mother's namesake,
and her name was Madonna.

336
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,880
I mean, it either crushes you or...

337
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,720
edifies you or...

338
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,600
elevates you to something else.

339
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,840
MADONNA: In a big family situation,

340
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,440
you're, like, fighting to, like,

341
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,040
be noticed and stand out
and everything.

342
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,200
I wanted to get
my father's attention.

343
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,320
So, I've sort of had this emptiness

344
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,760
that I've had to sort of go out
into the world to fill up.

345
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,360

Hit Me With Your Best Shot

346
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,400
When I think about 1982,
there's a lot of music going on.

347
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,000
Madonna was working
in Camille's studio.

348
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,080


349
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:03,120


350
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,320
I always felt that Camille's vision

351
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,560
was anthemic songs for women,

352
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,240
very much like a Pat Benatar.

353
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,440
It was good, it was solid, there
was nothing wrong with that stuff.

354
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,040


355
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,160
MADONNA: We couldn't decide on the
direction that I wanted to go in,

356
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,360
and she wanted to
promote me more like new wave

357
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,960
or rock or whatever
you want to call it.

358
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,080
And I was writing
really funky stuff,

359
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:27,600
and she said, "You can't do that."

360
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,240
And I said, "Look, this is the way
I'm developing as an artist,

361
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,680
and you can't stop that."

362
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:37,920


363
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,520
BRAY: I was working
on my own tracks,

364
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,840
which were much more sort of,
like, RandB and pop and club.

365
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,160
And Madonna would come in
and she usually had a notepad

366
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,440
full of fragments of lyrics,

367
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,240
and she'd say,
"What do you think of this?"

368
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,560
And we'd sit down and we'd just,
for the next 10 hours,

369
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,440
we're just kind of
laying down vocals.

370
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,240
MADONNA: Late at night,
we'd go back to these studios

371
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,640
where they had four track
and eight track recording things

372
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,520
and we'd made our own demo tape

373
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,720
on our own, like,
at three o'clock in the morning,

374
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,680
we'd go there every night.

375
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,400
("AIN'T NO BIG DEAL" PLAYS)

376
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,680
BRAY: So, "Ain't No Big Deal"
was kind of disco-y...

377
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,880
and my version of it

378
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,440
was beloved by my mother,
but no one else.

379
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,440
So, I asked Madonna to sing it.

380
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,960

I got no tears to cry...

381
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,760
We played, between the two of us,
all the instruments on it

382
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,280
and I did all the singing,
we wrote the songs together.

383
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,440
BRAY: When she sang
"Ain't No Big Deal",

384
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,000
she sang it with all her heart.
And it really kind of just clicked.

385
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,080


386
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:57,720
I did not know that she was
taking it around Danceteria

387
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,560
or other dance clubs.

388
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,160
MADONNA: I wasn't gonna go
to record labels because I know
they never listen to the tapes.

389
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000
So, I went to clubs
because I know that AandR men

390
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,520
from record labels go there,
and they bring their new records
for the DJ to play.

391
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,680


392
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,760
You know, the big DJ at Danceteria,

393
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,520
he told me that this girl
was coming by

394
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,160
who was trying to get him
to play her demo.

395
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,680
I mean, it was good,
it wasn't great,

396
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,560
but there was this star

397
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,880
just fucking radiating,
who was looking for a deal.

398
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,560
I always ask artists,
"What do you want?"

399
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,600
And the best answer I ever got
was the one that Madonna gave me

400
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,840
where she said,
"I want to rule the world."

401
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,080
(MUSIC ENDS ABRUPTLY)

402
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:43,920
(MONITOR BEEPS STEADILY)

403
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,000
Seymour Stein, my boss,
was in the hospital,

404
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,440
so I said "Look, I'm gonna go
play him these demos tonight.

405
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,600
Why don't you come by
at the end of the day tomorrow

406
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,680
and we'll go up
and we can meet him."

407
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,600
STEIN: I was hooked up
to all these machines.

408
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,040
I hadn't shaved, I was wearing

409
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,040
the regulation pyjamas

410
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,160
with a slit up my backside.

411
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,320
When she walked in,
I could tell right away

412
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:11,000
she couldn't have cared
if I was laying

413
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,200
in a coffin,
as long as I could sign a contract.

414
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,960
That's how it all began.

415
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000
(OMINOUS INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)

416
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,880
All this was going on
behind my back.

417
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,000
I'm not aware
that there was a dance song

418
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,520
that had gone to labels.

419
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,560
(MUSIC DARKENS)

420
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,400
I get called to Billy Joel's
lawyer's office.

421
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,400
She's there.
She's lying on the leather couch,

422
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,040
chewing gum and blowing bubbles.

423
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,280
And it was a 10-minute meeting.

424
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,360
"Madonna doesn't want you
as her manager anymore,

425
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600
we're letting you go."

426
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,480
Silence.

427
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,840
Well, I said,
"I'll get legal representation"

428
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,160
and I walked out, shocked.
(DOOR OPENS, CLOSES)

429
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,400
It took me days
to get upset and cry.

430
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,120
MADONNA: I've been, you know,
dropping off musicians

431
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,680
and changing personnel because I
know they weren't the right people.

432
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,200
You gotta know intuitively

433
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,680
you're with the right people,
or it's pointless.

434
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,720
(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

435
00:24:31,045 --> 00:24:33,840

Welcome To The Pleasuredome

436
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,840
For a while, everything was OK,

437
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,880
but then I got a manager who, um...

438
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,880
wanted to fit me into an image,

439
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,080
an idea in her mind
that she thought I should be.

440
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,880
More like Debbie Harry or
Pat Benatar or something like that.

441
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,120
That's tired, right?

442
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,680


443
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,680


444
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,760
When we first went into the studio,

445
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,080
it was going to be
"Ain't No Big Deal" is the A-side

446
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,480
and "Everybody" is the B-side.

447
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,760
"Ain't No Big Deal"
just did not come out good.

448
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,360
We just didn't like it.

449
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,640
But "Everybody"
sounded really good,

450
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,400
so that was the first single,

451
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,920
and we set a tone with that.

452
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,720


453
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,920


454
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,520


455
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,800


456
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,560
She was taking
all these different things.

457
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,040
The disco world,
the new wave dance world,

458
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,240
the punk rock scene...

459
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,960


460
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,120
..putting it into
one amazing package.

461
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,320


462
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,720
Then we just started to do gigs.

463
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,840
What... What does this mean?

464
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,320
Does that mean "good"? OK.

465
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,560
You have to wait.
We would book

466
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,600
three or four clubs
on a Saturday night.

467
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,320
Ready? OK, we're ready.

468
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,760
ANNOUNCER: Live at Uncle Sam's,

469
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,840
from New York, Madonna!
(CHEERING)

470
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,520
Back then,
people would do track dates,

471
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,560
which was the music,
and they would sing live.

472
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,320
And they just go around
with this beat box,

473
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,560
make some money and off to the next.

474
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,600


475
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,240
How about a hand for my dancers?

476
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,400
Come out here, you guys.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

477
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,080
Aren't they great?

478
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:42,080
That's Christopher, Erika, and Bagz.

479
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:44,800
My brother, Christopher,
and I have always been

480
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,640
the closest members of my family.

481
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,240
Come here, brother.

482
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,280
This is my brother, Christopher.
He's also part of my big family,

483
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,600
and he dances with me,
and he was inspired

484
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,960
and came to New York
after I... I was here.

485
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,280
Madonna was doing club dates,

486
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,440
and she said "Come back to New York!

487
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,760
I want you to be
one of my backup dancers."

488
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:10,320

Starlight (star bright)...

489
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,160
It wasn't fun,
but it was my sister,

490
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,240
and I love her.


491
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,800


492
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,360
And I didn't have a job,
so we did it.

493
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,000
Some places, they loved us.

494
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,480
Alright, we're gonna take a holiday.

495
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,360
(FAINT CHEERING)

496
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080
Some places, not so much.
Huh?

497
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:38,680
Like what?

498
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,200
What's up with you?

499
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,040
Huh?

500
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,880
Yeah, I can see that.

501
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,640
We'd go out to Long Island,
and they absolutely hated her.

502
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,640
Well, I'll do
what I wanna do, alright?

503
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,840
And I know you're going to like it.

504
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,000
OK, don't... don't
do anything with that hat.

505
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,120
I mean, they were throwing cups
and napkins and bottles and shit.

506
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,360
Thank you very much. Goodnight!
(GLASS SHATTERS)

507
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,560
(CROWD CLAMOURING)
I had miserable low points,

508
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,680
I had terrible
feelings of loneliness.

509
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,120
I just kept thinking
this is a rite of passage,

510
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,160
I have to pass this test.

511
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,680
And I refused to accept

512
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,800
that anything but success

513
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,840
was going to happen eventually.

514
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,800
You know, I just didn't think
that failing was an option.

515
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:33,120
MONTAUG: OK, and now, No Entiendes

516
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,800
is proud to present

517
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,040
Sire recording artist, Madonna.

518
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,480
(CROWD CHEERING)
Now get up and do your thing!

519
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,760
STEINBERG: I was at
Haoui Montaug's No Entiendes

520
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,840
where Bagz, Erika,

521
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,800
and Martin Burgoyne
danced as back up dancers.

522
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,120
Martin was Madonna's best friend.

523
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,760
MADONNA: Martin was a bartender
at a club in the East Village.

524
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,200
We lived in the same apartment,

525
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,680
and we were just inseparable.

526
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,680
When I started to make
records and stuff,

527
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000
he was my art director.

528
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,960
He helped me design my album covers
and he'd go on tours with me

529
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,480
and help me with my shows,
and things like that.

530
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,520
He was really my best friend.

531
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,720
I think one of the reasons
that Madonna

532
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,720
could be so close to Martin

533
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,560
was that he was gay.

534
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,320
STEINBERG: From the very beginning,
gay clubs loved her.

535
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,480
MAN: Bunny, put me on the list.

536
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,560
I'd be glad to. I just got here.

537
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,920
I'm dancing and boogying down
with the pop tarts tonight.

538
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,120
This is great.
See you in there.

539
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,400
And the gay community
became a major influence

540
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,000
for her career and also
a turning point for her music.

541
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,040


542
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,880
Martin Burgoyne
was Madonna's link

543
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,440
between the new wave community

544
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,160
and the gay scene.

545
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,680
But I'm talking about
the cool gay community...

546
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,240
I'm afraid that
some of you came here

547
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,760
expecting a classy drag act.

548
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,280
..and the people
who were influential.

549
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,520
Basquiat,

550
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Keith Haring,

551
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,320
singers, performers,

552
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,920
dancers, all collaborated.

553
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,800

In your fashion war...

554
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,920
Downtown was more than a location,

555
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,000
it was a mentality.

556
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,440
We're gonna shake
Keith's hand, alright?

557
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,600


558
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,600
The artists got together,

559
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,280
and you talked about
different things.

560
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,880
We just all worked together
on these projects,

561
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,440
and it really became a community.

562
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,080
MADONNA: There's this tension.
There's this, like,

563
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,520
sort of feeling in the air
that everyone is going somewhere

564
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,000
and there's a feeling of desperation

565
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,320
and a feeling of urgency.

566
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Feeling of, like, being on the edge.

567
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,000
It's inspiring.

568
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,600
They were creating

569
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,680
a new genre of culture,

570
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,360
not just music, not just art,

571
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,800
but a liberating movement.

572
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,240
The two of them were quite a couple,
Martin and Madonna.

573
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,880
I really liked Martin a lot.

574
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,200
I would just say
she wasn't the nicest,

575
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,960
she wasn't the friendliest person,
you know.

576
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,040
'Cause she could be pretty hard,

577
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,880
and I think he softened
her edges a lot.

578
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,000
She could relate to him
because he was gay.

579
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,960
They could really be friends.

580
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,760
I don't think she could be friends
like that with a straight guy.

581
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,120
MADONNA: I feel that most gay men

582
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,600
are so much more in touch

583
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,840
with a certain kind of sensitivity

584
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,280
that heterosexual men
aren't allowed to be in touch with.

585
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,320
To me, they are more
whole human beings in a way,

586
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,280
you know, than... than most
of the straight men that I know.

587
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,520
So, I'm naturally attracted to them.

588
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,200
MAN: OK, here we go. Ready?

589
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,520
MADONNA: Go ahead, go ahead.
Go ahead, Eden,

590
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320
before, like, people start
getting really weird.

591
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,040
MAN: OK, go.

592
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,080


593
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,600
We had already put out two singles

594
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,480
that had done really well
on the dance charts,

595
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,200
but we hadn't crossed over yet,

596
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,680
so we decided we needed a manager.

597
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,360
MADONNA: I just said, "Who's
the manager of the biggest act

598
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,840
right now in America today?

599
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,600
I want his manager."

600
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,680
I mean, Freddy DeMann
was managing Michael Jackson...

601
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,520
who was, at the time,
the biggest star on the planet.

602
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,120
(CLAMOURING)

603
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,920
A friend of mine, Seymour Stein,

604
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,160
he said, "I'm sending out
this artist of mine,

605
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,040
I just signed this girl, Madonna.

606
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,040
She's shopping for managers
and I'd like you to meet her."

607
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,680
I told him I really didn't want to,
and he said,

608
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,720
"Look, I'm telling you,
she's gonna be a star."

609
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,760


610
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,120
ROSENBLATT:
We had a meeting with Freddy DeMann.

611
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,080
REQUEST:
I was immediately attracted to her.

612
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,680
Madonna has that certain something.

613
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,400
Madonna and Freddy
had this great meeting,

614
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,520
and he told me he was going to
quote unquote "manage my girl."

615
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,560
And his assistant comes in and says,

616
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,200
"Freddy you have
your conference call now."

617
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,640
And Freddy said,
"Well, if you guys don't mind,

618
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,880
why don't you stick around?"

619
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,240
And he said, "Here's a video,
and we're going to premiere this

620
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,800
on MTV in about a week."

621
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,680
So, he presses play and leaves,

622
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:23,440
and Madonna and I watch
the long form

623
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,400
Michael Jackson "Beat It" video.

624
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,640

"Don't you ever come around here"

625
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,080

You better disappear..."

626
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,000
We were both blown away.

627
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,520
We're sitting there speechless.


628
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,360

(SONG ENDS ABRUPTLY)

629
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,400
(CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC)

630
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,360
It was one of the first
long form videos.

631
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,920
No one had ever done
anything like that before.

632
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,360
("BEAT IT" RESUMES)

633
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:57,000
The quality of the filmmaking

634
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,240
was just incredibly high.

635
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,840
You know, this video is just
going to change everything.

636
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,800


637
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,960
Back then in America,
you just had radio stations.

638
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,480
You had to get on 100 stations
in America to break.

639
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,440
MTV changed that.

640
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600
The record industry has found
a marriage with television.

641
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,040
The results are videos,
top musical hits put to pictures.

642
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,040
Another result is MTV,

643
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,000
Music Television,
a nationwide cable channel.

644
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,520
We both thought that
Madonna, visually,

645
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,840
was so striking
and so engaging and so different

646
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,360
that if we did it right,
we could really conquer the planet.

647
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:44,640
MADONNA: I said, "I'm just
as talented as Michael Jackson."

648
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,920
If he can exploit his image,
I just said,

649
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,960
"OK I'm going to get into this."

650
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,480


651
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,440
LAMBERT:
I first met Madonna in 1984,

652
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,840
and I was a struggling
young filmmaker

653
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,520
living in Los Angeles.

654
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,320
I had made a music video
for my friends,

655
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,200
who had a group called
the Tom Tom Club.

656
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,760
It came to the attention
of a man at Warner Brothers.

657
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,600
He said, "There's this girl,
I think she's gonna be a big star.

658
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,720
If she likes you, if you like her,

659
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,360
I'll give you some money
to make a music video."

660
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,880
The song was "Borderline."

661
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,040
I said I think it would be
really cool for you to be dancing

662
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,320
with these kids in a playful way.

663
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,480
I was really impressed
with the way she was able

664
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,120
to pull the choreography together.

665
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,120
We just turned on the music
and figured it out.

666
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,200
("BORDERLINE" PLAYS)

667
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,320
She just has this ability
to connect with a camera

668
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,640
that is supernatural.

669
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,160
She's like a magnet and the camera
just connects to her face.

670
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,000


671
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,240


672
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,080
(LAUGHS) What's the matter?
You want some more torture?

673
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,720
INTERVIEWER:
Is the image of you really you?

674
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,120
I would say so.

675
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,720
Is it a look? An attitude?
How would you describe it?

676
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,160
I think it's an attitude
more than anything.

677
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,680
LAMBERT: My goal,
always from the beginning

678
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,280
with Madonna, was...

679
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,360
not to impose a character on her,

680
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,120
because she didn't need me
to do that.

681
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,160
What she needed me to do
was capture that character.

682
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,480
You know this is a business
that exactly wants to slot you,

683
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,360
wants to describe you.
Mm-hmm.

684
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,560
Where do you fit now?

685
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,480
In the new category
that I've defined.

686
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,520
(LAUGHS)

687
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,800
What's new about it?

688
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,000
Me.

689
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,840
MAN 1: We're rolling.
MAN 2: Rolling!

690
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,720
Let's do a rehearsal, kid.

691
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,400
Come on. Up and at 'em.

692
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,800
When she started to become famous,

693
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,480
people were just like, "Oh, my God,
she sold her soul to the devil."

694
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,640
Nobody becomes that famous,
that fast.

695
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,480
Because it was just so meteoric.

696
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,360
And I have to say,

697
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,400
she never looked back.

698
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,400
So tonight,
here at Radio City Music Hall,

699
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,480
some famous faces
have come out to celebrate.

700
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,720
The occasion was the first annual
MTV Video Music Awards.

701
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,200
(CROWD CLAMOURING)
(CAMERAS CLICKING)

702
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,440

I Heard It Through The Grapevine

703
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,480
Her manager, Freddy,

704
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,920
wanted her to perform "Borderline",

705
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,320
which was the single at the time.
She said "No."

706
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,520
Madonna fought with them
and really fought hard

707
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,440
to do "Like a Virgin," and Freddy...

708
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,480
you know, he lost the argument.

709
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,040
That was the first time
she performed it live.

710
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,120


711
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,920

(SONG MUTES, TENSE MUSIC)

712
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,760
The performance at the MTV Awards.
Yeah.

713
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,840
You came down those stairs
dressed as a bride,

714
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,760
then you crawled all over the stage.
You actually did shock

715
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,760
not only just the press and that,

716
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,160
but some of the industry as well.
(MUSIC RESUMES)

717
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,960


718
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,280


719
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,680
My manager, I had only
been with him for a short time,

720
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,560
and he came backstage
and he was white.

721
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,000
I mean, he thought that, you know...
He couldn't speak to me.

722
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,280
(TENSE MUSIC)

723
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,000
I was embarrassed.

724
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,040
Just 'cause it looked like
a mistake.

725
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,160
And her rolling around
on the floor, I was like,

726
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,720
"Oh, my God,
my father's gonna have a fit."

727
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,400
Do you remember the first time
you set foot on stage?

728
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,960
The first show I ever did
was in 6th grade...

729
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,120
and I painted my body
with fluorescent paints,

730
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,840
and I put a bikini on
and danced to a song by The Who.

731
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,440
My father grounded me for a month.

732
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,000
But I loved it.

733
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,360
I lived for it.

734
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,200
And that's when I felt
most comfortable.

735
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,080
ROSENBLATT: And I gotta say that
her manager, the record company,

736
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,760
tons of the people
at the actual awards show,

737
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,640
thought it was an absolute disaster.

738
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,680
(CHEERING)
But it really proved to be

739
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:46,720
as pivotal as the Beatles
on The Ed Sullivan Show.

740
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,800
PRESENTER: Alright.

741
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,520
That was the nuclear bomb.

742
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,880
OK, let's hear it for Madonna.

743
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,440
(SCREAMING)

744
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,920
You know,
people were really wondering

745
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,920
what was going to happen next.

746
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,200
Over here, Madonna...

747
00:41:06,006 --> 00:41:09,360
Madonna, if you think we are
referring to the sweet expressions

748
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,200
by the painter, Raphael,

749
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:13,160
you clearly do not have
a teenage daughter.

750
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,240


751
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,360
Did you enjoy the Madonna concert?
(ALL CHEER)

752
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,480
She's excellent.
I think she's awesome, man.

753
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,600
She's great.
You can really dance to her music.

754
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,200
REPORTER: Here we have
the "Girl Toy" belt buckle.

755
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,480
The ringlets, lots of those.

756
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,480
Basically, we're looking for
the Madonna look,

757
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,640
and you turned out to have it.
Yes, I love Madonna more than life.

758
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,600


759
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,880
REPORTER: Madonna sells more than
75,000 records a day.

760
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,080
Not bad for a 25-year-old
girl from Michigan.

761
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,680
Any predictions for the future year?

762
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:53,200
MADONNA: Every little girl
between the age of 10 and 18

763
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:54,640
is gonna wanna look like me.

764
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,320


765
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,320


766
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,960
Hello, brother.
(LAUGHS)

767
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,560
I like the way she acts,
because I think all women

768
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,880
should be able to act
like they want without being...

769
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,640
run down by men at all.

770
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,800
She was sexual enough

771
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,000
to be of interest
to the record industry,

772
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,520
but she also spoke directly to...
you know, the women and girls.

773
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Madonna wants to know

774
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,680
how many people are going to see
the Virgin tour?

775
00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:26,120
(CHEERING)

776
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,760
Teenage girls.
They're looking at it

777
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,320
and they're saying,
"Everybody feels that way.

778
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,240
Why can't I feel that way?"

779
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,680
REPORTER: Is this yourself
or an imitation of Madonna?

780
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,440
It's an imitation of Madonna,
but inside is me, too.

781
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,640
ORECK: She gave them confidence.

782
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,560
(ALL SCREAM)

783
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,400
She gave them HER confidence.

784
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,080
And people were scared of that,
believe me.

785
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,080
REPORTER: Not the sort of girls
you'd take home to mum for tea.

786
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,120
(SONG FADES, ENDS)

787
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,640
REPORTER: A lot of people think
that she projects a bad image

788
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,440
for young women. What do you think?
I don't think so.

789
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,800
No.
Definitely not.

790
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,360
I'm glad I don't have
a daughter her age.

791
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,640
Why is that?

792
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,120
Because of the image.
I mean, I just can't believe it.

793
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,400
LAMBERT:
It was a moment where everybody

794
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,120
was confronted with this image.

795
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,000
The people who were
outraged by Madonna

796
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,800
probably wouldn't choose
to go to a Madonna concert,

797
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,840
but that particular person might be

798
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,000
watching the news
when a clip from it is shown.

799
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,160
I don't agree with what a lot
of what she does on stage.

800
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,600
I really don't.

801
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,480
Maybe there needs to be an
older crowd, perhaps?I think so.

802
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,640
ORECK: Her audience was really
much younger than anyone expected.

803
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,640
(CROWD SCREAMING)

804
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,160
Over and over, you saw, like,
nine-year-olds singing

805
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,240
"Like a Virgin."

806
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,560
REPORTER: When you dress up
like this, how do you feel?

807
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,000
I feel wonderful.

808
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,360
What are these kids really saying?

809
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:02,760
I want to be a virgin,

810
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,360
but I want to be a virgin
who looks like I'm a slut.

811
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,800
The press affected her most

812
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,680
when she started to get big,

813
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,040
and the papers decided
to focus in on hating her.

814
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,160
MADONNA: Most people wanna look
at me as this tarty little bimbo.

815
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,440
They call me trash and a harlot,

816
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,600
whatever they can,
because I'm an overtly

817
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,520
sexual person in my image.

818
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,640
You start thinking sexuality
is a bad thing,

819
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,680
that's when you start
having problems.

820
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,200
Today, some rock songs
are downright X-rated,

821
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,200
and that's got people
from Main Street

822
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:42,640
to Pennsylvania Avenue
saying enough is enough.

823
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,040
One recent survey by a Washington
based research council concluded

824
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,240
that Americans
were far more religious

825
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:50,880
than the people of other nations,

826
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,240
that an overwhelming
majority of Americans

827
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,640
disapprove of adultery,
teenage sex, pornography,

828
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,480
abortion, and hard drugs.

829
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,400
And this same study

830
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,040
showed a deep reverence
for the importance of family ties

831
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,400
and religious belief.

832
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,840
America is in the midst
of a spiritual awakening

833
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,480
and a moral renewal.

834
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,120
Adam, it's in the wrong
position here. I think-

835
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,600
I don't wanna answer
all those questions again.

836
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,960
No, no, no, this was OK.

837
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,400
Don't get all grumpy on me now.

838
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,960
Please. (LAUGHS)

839
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,040
I cannot emphasise
what a shark pit it was

840
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,160
from a young woman
who's coming into that world.

841
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,840
MADONNA:
If you are a powerful female

842
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,160
and you don't play the traditional
role that you're supposed to play,

843
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,280
then you are going to be...
intimidating to people.

844
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,120
As a woman in the 80s,
if you're an artist

845
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,480
and you have a open mind about sex,

846
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,320
get ready to pay for it.

847
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,040
I ended up hearing
when people in the business

848
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,680
would talk about her,
it wasn't positive.

849
00:45:57,720 --> 00:46:01,040
Just the whispers were like,
"She can't really sing.

850
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,640
She doesn't really have talent.

851
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,880
She slept her way to the top."

852
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,240
REPORTER:
Now she's launched a major tour

853
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,320
as the country's
hottest female performer.

854
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,480
With a triple platinum album,

855
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,040
she's done it by rocking the boat
with uninhibited sensuality

856
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,800
and a reputation for doing
whatever it takes to get to the top.

857
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,920
But her rise to stardom is cluttered

858
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,160
with resentful rumours about using

859
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,800
and dropping beneficial men
on her way up.

860
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,080
ROSENBLATT:
Are you out of your fucking mind?

861
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,240
She did not have to give
sexual favours to Freddy DeMann.

862
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,240
She didn't have to do it
to get her record contract.

863
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,880
She didn't have to do it
with the people at Warner Brothers.

864
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,880
So, give me a fucking break here.

865
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,920
It's just sexism.

866
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,000
Material Girl intended to show

867
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,080
that Madonna looked at men

868
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,280
as sexual beings
who were there for her pleasure.

869
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,280


870
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,160


871
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,000


872
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,640
She's not interested in a rich guy

873
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,280
so that she can use his money.

874
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,760
She's interested in a cute guy
so she can use his body.

875
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,560

(That's right)...

876
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,880
Why couldn't you sleep with
whoever you wanted to sleep with?

877
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,720
Just 'cause you're a woman?

878
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,600
If men can do it, so can women.

879
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,040


880
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,000


881
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,560
LAMBERT: When I directed the video,
we kind of realised

882
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,160
we just had a lot of
the very same feelings about

883
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,520
the rules of the game.

884
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,920

In a material world

885
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,480


886
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,840
(SONG FADES, ENDS)
(MELANCHOLY MUSIC)

887
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,480
MADONNA: I always thought
that because I didn't have a mother,

888
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,360
that I somehow didn't learn
all of those subservient things.

889
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,960
I didn't learn manners.

890
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,640
I didn't get all that
"OK, you have to sit this way,

891
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,840
you have to dress this way,
you have to act this way."

892
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,720
LAMBERT: Sharon wanted everything
to go smoothly, and I said,

893
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,600
"Well, we need to have
some attractive men on the set.

894
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,840
We came up with the idea

895
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,800
that we would get Sean Penn.

896
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,840

Dancing With Myself

897
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,520
ORECK: It was like a bomb went off.

898
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,760
America's bad boy

899
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
and America's bad girl.

900
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,760
REPORTER:
24-year-old rocker, Madonna,

901
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,760
says her heart belongs
to her leading man of many months,

902
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,200
actor, Sean Penn.

903
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:43,920
But can a material girl
from the Midwest

904
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,800
find happiness
with the star of Bad Boys?

905
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,840
("DANCING WITH MYSELF" CONTINUES)

906
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,080
ORECK: She was genuinely
in love with him,

907
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,520
but it felt as if the attraction

908
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,640
between the two of them

909
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,280
was fuelled by the public.
(SONG FADES, ENDS)

910
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,160
He was a budding movie star,
she was the budding rock star,

911
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,920
and the public demanded

912
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,000
that they come together.

913
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,120
CICCONE:
They got followed everywhere.

914
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,640
It put a lot of pressure
on the relationship.

915
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,440
MAN: Sean Penn.
(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)

916
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,440
It's very intrusive,

917
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,560
but I think she was more capable
at dealing with it

918
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,400
than he really was.
(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)

919
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,040
REPORTER: Some of the people
in the news, rock star Madonna,

920
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,480
her fiance, actor Sean Penn,
and Orion Pictures

921
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,760
have been sued for $1 million
by a photographer

922
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,800
who says Penn beat him
with a rock in Nashville.

923
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,920
The press that has slammed me,
I say, "(BLEEP) them."

924
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,040
It is interesting that...
that Sean Penn found Madonna,

925
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,040
the world's most public...
Mm-hmm.

926
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,000
..woman, and fell in love with her.
Well, opposites attract.

927
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,680
Yes.

928
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:56,800
I mean, I-I don't... I...

929
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,920
speci-specifically
don't want to discuss

930
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,320
Sean and how he handles himself.

931
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,000
He is a grown man, and...

932
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,840
he makes his own decisions
about that.

933
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,320
Madonna, the sultry singer
who has parlayed a trampy,

934
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,440
trashy style
into a rockstar respectability

935
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,760
is about to be exposed, literally.

936
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,960
Away from the teen magazines

937
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,840
on the top shelf
at your local newsagent,

938
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,560
Penthouse and Playboy
are vying with each other

939
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,000
to present Madonna
at her least saintly.

940
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,280
(FOREBODING MUSIC)

941
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,080
REPORTER: Both Playboy and Penthouse
hitting the newsstands today

942
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,080
with nude photos
of the Material Girl

943
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,480
taken in 1979 and 1980.

944
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,240
Mayor Timothy Sullivan had planned
to honour Madonna in Bay City.

945
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,080
But now, because of
those pictures he hasn't seen,

946
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,240
the mayor is changing his plans.

947
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,920
It wouldn't be appropriate
to present a key to the city
to Madonna.

948
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,440
A key to the city is the highest
accolade Bay City can bestow

949
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,000
upon its citizens,
and it carries with it

950
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,200
a certain, uh, moral tone as well.

951
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,200
I heard about it
the day they came out,

952
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,120
went and bought one.

953
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,200
My thought at that time

954
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:17,240
wasn't so much about her,
but about my father.

955
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,080
I was imagining his co-workers

956
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,720
looking at that stuff,
him having to deal with it.

957
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,560
Felt like this must have
really embarrassed him.

958
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,200
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

959
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,080
MADONNA: I think it's the first time

960
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,240
I was in front
of such a big audience.

961
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,680
It was right when
the Playboy magazine had come out.

962
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,120
Before I'd gone on,
I just thought, "I can't do this,

963
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,760
I can't do this. I can't go on."

964
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,120
Because I... I was...

965
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,560
so unsure of what was gonna happen.

966
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,040
So...

967
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,120
Hot enough for you?

968
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,000
I'm sympathising with you
by keeping my coat on, OK?

969
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,800
So don't feel bad.

970
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,560
(BOOING)

971
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,600
No, I ain't taking shit off today.

972
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,200
(CHEERING)

973
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,960
You might hold it against me
10 years from now.

974
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,360


975
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,400


976
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,400


977
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,720
MELDRUM:
By going out on the Live Aid thing

978
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,800
and just covering yourself up.

979
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,240
That Playboy and Penthouse-
Yeah, but see, I don't...

980
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,680
I just want to say that
it doesn't matter what I'm wearing.

981
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,280
Ultimately,
I had the same amount of energy,

982
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,040
the same amount of flirtation.

983
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,840
What I wear
has nothing to do with it.

984
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,800
And that was what I was
trying to say to the public.

985
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,320
You know, I'm dressed
from my neck down to my ankles

986
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,480
or I don't hardly have anything on,

987
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,520
I'm going to still
be the same person that I was.

988
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,160
It doesn't change.

989
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,000


990
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,600


991
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,720


992
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,360


993
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,400
(OMINOUS MUSIC)

994
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,200
I think it caused
a lot of problems with Sean.

995
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,560
And in that regard,
it was very unpleasant for her.

996
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,280
I think that Madonna
got exhausted reading all this crap,

997
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,440
but it sold newspapers.

998
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,000
Well, this happens to be,
though you may not know it,

999
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,640
a very big day.

1000
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,400
This is the day
that rock singer Madonna

1001
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,280
is expected to take Penn in hand.

1002
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,920
And of course,
I'm talking about Sean Penn.

1003
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,200


1004
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,360
(CLAMOURING)

1005
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,520
I have designed the wedding dress,
and it was the one thing

1006
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,480
every single journalist was calling.

1007
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,120
"Is she going to wear
a bright red wedding dress?

1008
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,160
She's going to come out
like the devil."

1009
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,200
(HELICOPTER WHIRRS)

1010
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,040
It was a crazy affair.

1011
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,400
BRAY: That wedding
was pretty phenomenal.

1012
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,400
Sean had introduced her
to Hollywood in a way that, um...

1013
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,880
was mind-boggling.

1014
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,440
We were definitely the weird kids
from New York, for sure.

1015
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,600
("OOH WHAT A LIFE" CONTINUES)

1016
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,560
Her best friend,
Martin Burgoyne, was there,

1017
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,360
Keith Haring, and Andy Warhol.

1018
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,440
There was a lot of secrecy

1019
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,720
involving the exact location

1020
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,520
because they were afraid
of the paparazzi.

1021
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,720
And there were, you know,
10 helicopters

1022
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,200
hovering above everything.
So, you couldn't hear anything,

1023
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:55,360
but it got Sean riled up

1024
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,760
and he threatened to shoot
at the helicopters.

1025
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,960
SEIDELMAN:
Sean Penn was pretty pissed off

1026
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,440
and I guess wrote something like,

1027
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,480
"fuck you" in the sand

1028
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,520
so the helicopters could read it.

1029
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,520
MADONNA: We couldn't hear the vows,

1030
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,440
but I was there to have a good time.

1031
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,480
You know,
you can't let it bother you.

1032
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,520
CICCONE: I don't think she wanted
the wedding to be like that.

1033
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,280
She was trying to stop Sean
from doing stupid shit.

1034
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,240
Well, looking back
at all the craziness that went on,

1035
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,760
I think it may have been
a bad omen for the future.

1036
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,800
(HELICOPTER WHIRRING)

1037
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,400
(SIREN WAILING)

1038
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,880
After Madonna's wedding to Sean,

1039
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,320
she was now part of the LA scene.

1040
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:50,200
We didn't see her in the clubs,
we didn't see her at all.

1041
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,760
And that's when Martin
started to get sick.

1042
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,800
We didn't know what it was.

1043
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,040
He was just really sick.

1044
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:03,160
He... retreated to his apartment,

1045
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,000
and so we would try
and drop off food,

1046
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,560
and he wouldn't open the door.

1047
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,040
You know, by the end of two weeks,

1048
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,480
we had to get him to open the door.

1049
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,160
STEINBERG:
Madonna didn't know Martin was sick.

1050
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,600
He told everyone he had the measles.

1051
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,560
We started hearing about this thing,

1052
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,520
and friends started getting sick.

1053
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,800
They didn't want to tell anybody

1054
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,320
because everybody was afraid
to talk about it

1055
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,560
and everybody was afraid
to admit it.

1056
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,680
Federal health officials say
as many as one million Americans

1057
00:56:37,720 --> 00:56:39,560
may have been infected
with the AIDS virus,

1058
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,720
and more than 12,000
are expected to develop

1059
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:43,400
the deadly disease next year.

1060
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,360
The diagnosis, AIDS, always fatal.

1061
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,400
Officials don't expect the disease
to spread as rapidly

1062
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,160
among heterosexuals
as it has among gays

1063
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,320
and others in the high-risk groups,

1064
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,640
where there are 14 new cases daily,

1065
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,520
six deaths every day
across the country.

1066
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,040
It will be twice that many
this time next year.

1067
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,280

THE KILLING MOON

1068
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,240
Mwah! Loving kisses...

1069
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,520
Hi.
Oh, hi!

1070
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,680
New York was devastated...

1071
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,920
and it wiped out

1072
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,240
a large part of the scene.

1073
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,680
("THE KILLING MOON" CONTINUES)

1074
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,920
There was also this incredible

1075
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,320
wave of sadness that was
kind of washing over the dancefloor.

1076
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,400
It just wasn't a party anymore.

1077
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,360
It was kind of like Vietnam,
in a way.

1078
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,800
And here are all these people
your own age

1079
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,880
who've been sent to war,

1080
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,960
and half of them are coming back
dead in a casket.

1081
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,680


1082
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,160


1083
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,440


1084
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,880
It was like all these people
that were so close to you.

1085
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,320
And you were also frightened
for yourself.

1086
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,760
(SONG FADES, ENDS)

1087
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,800
(SIREN WAILS)

1088
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,640
I told Martin I'll take care
of the medicine. No problem.

1089
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,120
Then I found out
it was like $1,800 a month.

1090
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,080
I was paying for a few months,
and then Madonna found out...

1091
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,120
rented an apartment in the Village
and paid for everything.

1092
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,960
Her husband at the time, Sean Penn,

1093
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,320
she convinced him to fly to Mexico

1094
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,320
to get a drug
that would possibly cure AIDS.

1095
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,960
I mean, then there were vicious
rumours and claims in the tabloids

1096
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,240
that Madonna had sex with Martin

1097
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,480
and that Madonna had AIDS

1098
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,520
and that she was gonna
give AIDS to Sean.

1099
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,600
That was one of them things
that was the most upsetting to her,

1100
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,560
that was to involve Sean in this lie

1101
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,720
and this sort of
made-up tabloid crap.

1102
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,160
MADONNA: When they want
to say bad things about you,

1103
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,360
they rarely criticise your work.

1104
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,560
They criticise you personally.

1105
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:41,800
They always go for your throat.

1106
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,480
MELDRUM: People could say,
"Madonna, you really shouldn't be

1107
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,880
concerning yourself so closely
with someone like this.

1108
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,880
It could be harmful."

1109
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,720
Yeah, but he was my best friend.
What could I do?

1110
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,120
I loved him, and people treat,

1111
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,400
you know, people with AIDS
like they're lepers or something.

1112
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,960
If they contract AIDS,
all their friends kind of disappear.

1113
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,120
Well, then that's not a friend.

1114
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,960
How could I desert him?

1115
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,640
Martin did not want to die.

1116
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,160
He was angry...

1117
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,840
and broken by it.

1118
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,960
If we sat him up,
he could stay awake long enough...

1119
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,320
for her to get here.

1120
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,680
He made it really clear

1121
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,080
that we had to do that.
(SNIFFLES)

1122
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,840
She came with Sean,
and all of us just gave her space,

1123
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,200
and she sat and talked with him
and told him how much she loved him.

1124
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,000
I think for him she was a soul mate.

1125
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,920
INTERVIEWER:
Rolling? Do you fear religion?

1126
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,640
Do I...
Fear religion?

1127
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,200
Do I fear it? No.

1128
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:12,920
Not in my life.

1129
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:14,640
I fear the...

1130
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,400
the power and influence that...

1131
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,680
say, like, the Moral Majority has

1132
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,080
on-on-on-on this country.

1133
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,320
But I don't think that that...
that's really about religion.

1134
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,080
I think that's about ignorance.

1135
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,480
REPORTER: The leader of the Moral
Majority had his own suggestions

1136
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,160
for handling the AIDS problem,

1137
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,640
the Reverend Jerry Falwell,
and he seemed to hint

1138
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,720
that he would not mind
seeing disease victims

1139
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,240
rounded up like animals.

1140
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,640
The fact is that
God created Adam and Eve.

1141
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,520
It was Adam and Eve,
not Adam and Steve.

1142
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,280
MAN: It's a perversion
and what the US Supreme Court

1143
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,480
has called deviant activity.

1144
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,840
MADONNA: People get scared
and they like to blame groups,

1145
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:02,960
and they like to lash out at them.

1146
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,680
The message is that AIDS
is a gay disease

1147
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,040
and that there's something wrong
with you if you're gay.

1148
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,520
We don't need you in America

1149
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,200
to make this country weak.

1150
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,800
And I totally disagree with that.

1151
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,840
"Just die, you're not
worth anything anyway.

1152
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,760
We'd love to be able
to eradicate you,

1153
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,000
and this disease
is coming to do it for us."

1154
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,560
(CHANTING)

1155
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:29,600
Most of these people,
they're not fit,

1156
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,200
they're not human beings,
they have emotional problems.

1157
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,000
We're going to see them going out

1158
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,000
and publicising their lifestyle
and influencing our children.

1159
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,760
What sort of role model
would you like to be now?

1160
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,400
I feel like in five years from now,

1161
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,480
all my friends will be dead,
in a way.

1162
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,320
One of your best friends.
Yes, died of AIDS. So, um...

1163
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,400
Um, so that really hit home with me,

1164
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,080
and that's a very personal issue,
so I wanted to get involved in it.

1165
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,200
(CLAMOURING)

1166
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,240
The Reagan administration

1167
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,360
brought in this period

1168
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,680
of suppression and repression.

1169
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,040
REPORTER: The president
spoke out publicly on AIDS today.

1170
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,880
His advisers do not expect him
to do it often,

1171
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,360
and he has not weighed in
on the controversial questions

1172
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,400
of AIDS testing
and the use of condoms.

1173
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:27,440
I think that abstinence has been
lacking in much of the education.

1174
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,360
One of the things that's been wrong
with too much of our education

1175
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,720
is that no kind of values
of right and wrong are being taught.

1176
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,760
(APPREHENSIVE MUSIC)

1177
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,480
ORECK: Her closest friends
were gay men,

1178
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,000
so she wasn't afraid to address it.

1179
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,840
MADONNA: Many people think
you can tell if someone has AIDS

1180
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:50,440
just by looking at them.

1181
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:51,560
But they're wrong.

1182
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,280
If you do have sex, use a condom.

1183
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,800
It may be the most important
thing you ever do.

1184
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,160
REPORTER: Madonna et all are here
to add a few zeros to the cost

1185
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,360
of decorated denim jackets,

1186
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,160
all for the benefit
of AIDS patient care.

1187
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,160
MADONNA: I'm very involved
with AIDS Project Los Angeles.

1188
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,120
For instance,
there's a dance marathon here

1189
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,360
that I was involved in last year.

1190
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,040
Nobody else was speaking out
for the gay community and AIDS

1191
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:22,920
and what was happening, but she was.

1192
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,680
It was never extremely heavy handed.

1193
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,800
There was always
this kind of levity to it.

1194
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,960
Don't stop living, just be careful.

1195
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,600
Don't stop having sex,

1196
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,440
just use a condom.

1197
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,600
In about an hour,
the Garden is going to explode

1198
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,840
with the sound of Madonna
and her fans.

1199
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,040
She's giving a one woman show
for the benefit of AIDS.

1200
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,360
amfAR, the American Federation
for AIDS research.

1201
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,280
REPORTER:
Madonna also wanted this to be

1202
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,600
an educational event for her fans,

1203
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,840
so each one received a comic book

1204
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,680
describing how the disease
can and cannot be transmitted.

1205
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,360
I remember reading
one of those leaflets in my hand

1206
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,600
and looking at it and thinking,
"Wow this is blunt,

1207
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,680
but it's also really simple."

1208
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:22,000
I mean the words were like taboo,

1209
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:23,840
but they were necessary.

1210
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,400
A lot of these people
wouldn't even bother to read it

1211
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:29,840
if it wasn't for Madonna.

1212
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,480
I paid $100 for the tickets,

1213
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,040
and I feel like the money's really
going to go for a good cause.

1214
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:35,760
Something really
has to be done about this.

1215
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,880
You know, AIDS is a...

1216
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,880
powerful and mysterious disease
that continues to elude us.

1217
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:43,840
(CHEERING)

1218
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,480
(TEARFULLY) For her to come out
and defy everybody

1219
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,080
and just say, "No, fuck you all.
These people are important."

1220
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,720
Hopefully,
with your presence tonight,

1221
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,280
the money that we've raised
for research grants

1222
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,680
will help us to find a cure,
and I hope to God it does.

1223
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,720
The AIDS benefit that we did
at Madison Square Garden

1224
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,480
was emotionally taxing
for everybody.

1225
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,080
Are you ready to party?!

1226
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,440
Especially for her...

1227
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,240
because of Martin.

1228
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,760
Not just Martin, there had been so
many friends of ours who had AIDS.

1229
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:23,920
And Madonna felt
the need at that time

1230
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,120
to embrace it
and the people who had it.

1231
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,200
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

1232
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,240
And Christopher Flynn...

1233
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,000
he was a formative person
in her life.

1234
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,440
Just a really sweet guy.

1235
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,160
FLYNN: Madonna.

1236
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,120
MADONNA:
After my father, the most...

1237
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:59,240
powerful, important relationship
in my life was Christopher Flynn.

1238
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:01,840
He was my ballet teacher.

1239
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,040
He was gay, and I had never met
a gay person before.

1240
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,400
What I mean is I'd never met someone
with that kind of a sensibility.

1241
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:16,600
He just was so alive.

1242
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,280
And he had a certain
theatricality about him,

1243
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,760
and he just attracted me, you know?

1244
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,840
I mean, he was like a magnet.

1245
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,800
(WARM, UPLIFTING MUSIC)

1246
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,240
He paid a lot of attention
to Madonna.

1247
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,120
She always stood
in the front of the class,

1248
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,880
and often he would ask her
to demonstrate

1249
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,160
what he was expecting of us.

1250
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,080
He realised her talent.

1251
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:45,760
A lot of us were jealous,
to say the least.

1252
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,080
MADONNA: It was the way...

1253
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,120
he made you proud of yourself.

1254
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,600
It was the way he came up to me

1255
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,520
and put my face
in his hand and said,

1256
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,240
"You are beautiful."

1257
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,600
I had a whole new sense of myself,
and I fell in love with

1258
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,960
the way he treated me
and the way he saw me

1259
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,200
and the way he made me feel.

1260
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,280
And In school,
I felt like such an outsider,

1261
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,480
like such a misfit,
like such a weirdo.

1262
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,720
I kept seeing myself through,

1263
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,880
like, macho heterosexual eyes.

1264
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,800
And I was really down on myself.

1265
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,080
I was too busy being repressed.

1266
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:39,480
When Christopher introduced me
to this life,

1267
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:41,320
I suddenly thought...

1268
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,640
that's not the only way
that I have to be.

1269
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,960
He was responsible
for encouraging her

1270
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,560
to leave there and go to New York.

1271
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,680
He simply said to her,
"Look, you're way too talented

1272
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,600
to be spending the rest of your
university years here."

1273
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,960
MADONNA:
Nobody had woken up that part of me.

1274
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,000
And he really turned
my head around completely

1275
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,920
and changed my life.

1276
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,960
(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

1277
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,400
Actress and singer, uh, Madonna

1278
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:34,560
and actor, Sean Penn,
announced through a spokesman today

1279
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,080
that they have separated
and are planning to divorce.

1280
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,880
I think she realised
that she didn't need him...

1281
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,000
in the way that she thought.

1282
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,520
I think that Sean...

1283
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,480
was ill-equipped to deal with her.

1284
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:58,360
She had grown up and Sean was still

1285
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,400
playing at something.

1286
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,320
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

1287
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,920
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)

1288
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,800
By the time we got to
"Like A Prayer"

1289
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,400
there was no question
that Madonna was shifting

1290
01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:17,600
as a... as a human being,

1291
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,200
as an artist.

1292
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,760
I think she started
thinking about her life,

1293
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:25,520
about her mother,
about the way she was raised,

1294
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,640
about her relationships with men.

1295
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,880
Madonna went from

1296
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,480
I want to write pop songs

1297
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,080
to I wanna be a confessional writer.

1298
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,920
You know, music that was much more
honest and bare-knuckled.

1299
01:10:43,480 --> 01:10:45,520
I think "Like A Prayer" was...

1300
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,360
"I want to put my soul
into the music."

1301
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,040
MADONNA: We started
writing a few songs

1302
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,520
and I decided that I was
going to make the theme of the album

1303
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,000
much more personal
and have everything to do

1304
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,040
with my relationships
with my family,

1305
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,840
with religion, with my past,

1306
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:04,680
you know, and present.

1307
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,760
And my relationship
to the world right now.

1308
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:12,240
I remember quite well,
we had dinner together at Spago's

1309
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,480
on Sunset Strip,

1310
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,000
and afterwards we went for a ride,

1311
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,320
and we drove up along Mulholland
and she played the song for me.

1312
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:26,400


1313
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:30,280

(MUSIC ENDS ABRUPTLY)

1314
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,040
The first thing I said was,
this is about sexual ecstasy

1315
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,240
and religious ecstasy.
And she said, "Yeah,

1316
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,560
and I want to fuck Jesus
on the altar,

1317
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,920
and I want to fuck Black Jesus
on the altar.

1318
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,360
(MUSIC RESUMES)


1319
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:46,120


1320
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,720


1321
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,600


1322
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,880
The idea was to take these

1323
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:55,360
iconographic symbols

1324
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:59,200
that are held away from everybody
in glass cases,

1325
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,520
and somehow bring it down to a level

1326
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:03,960
that everyone can relate to.

1327
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,040


1328
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,080


1329
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,280
"Like a Prayer"
was concerned with her spiritual

1330
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,040
relationship to church,

1331
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,000
to God, to race.

1332
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:20,880
I mean, there's so much going on.

1333
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:24,080


1334
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:27,160
Nobody questioned
the concept, originally.

1335
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,200
We did the budget for it.

1336
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,960
Then everybody started
questioning the concept,

1337
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,080
because the budget
was the highest budget

1338
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,560
that had ever been given
to Warners up to that point.

1339
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,960
Madonna, she said,
"They can spend that money,

1340
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,760
it's done, it's my money,
shut the fuck up."

1341
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:45,880
I'll never forget it.

1342
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,800
She said "We girls have work to do,

1343
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,720
so all you guys
get out of the room."

1344
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,480

It's like a little prayer

1345
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,240

I wanna take you there...

1346
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,800
Every Catholic girl I know that saw

1347
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:04,480
"Like A Prayer" said to me,

1348
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,720
"You know these are the kind of
fantasies I used to have

1349
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:08,800
in church while I was at mass."

1350
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:13,120


1351
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:18,040

(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

1352
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,320
(GENTLE MUSIC)

1353
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,360
MADONNA: My grandmother
really represented this, like, dark,

1354
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,640
mysterious, Italian Catholicism.

1355
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,960
She was so catholic she had saints,

1356
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,560
she had candles, and crucifixes.

1357
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,680
And she was always whispering
in my ear to be a good girl.

1358
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,280
Let's face it, you know,
the priests in their costumes,

1359
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,160
I mean, to me, something was very
sexy about it, too.

1360
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,880
(URGENT MUSIC)

1361
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,040
You know,
there was a huge political backlash

1362
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,800
and a lot of controversy
around "Like a Prayer,"

1363
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:01,160
and I knew there would be some,
but I was not prepared

1364
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,160
for how much there was.

1365
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,160
Right now, Pepsi-Cola
is probably wishing it hadn't paid

1366
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,520
pop star Madonna $5 million

1367
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,480
for a concert tour
and a few commercials.

1368
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:14,880
Go ahead. Make a wish.

1369
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,880
Folks who make Pepsi-Cola
are dropping Madonna

1370
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:20,120
from their ad campaign.
It's because of a video

1371
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,360
that she made for her song
"Like a Prayer."

1372
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,880
You know, the artists and the
corporate people combined

1373
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:26,760
seem to have no sense
of shame anymore.

1374
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,960
REPORTER: There are reports
that WEAA records

1375
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,240
and Italian state TV, RAI,

1376
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,920
plan to suspend broadcast
of the music video in that country.

1377
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,360
MADONNA: They couldn't deal
with the fact that I was kissing

1378
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,440
a Black man in my video.

1379
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:40,760
And it made people afraid,

1380
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,320
and I think the people
who reacted negatively to it

1381
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:44,840
were afraid of their own feelings

1382
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,320
that they have about those issues.

1383
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,760
The new record had been done,
and it was time for the tour.

1384
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,640
We would sit down together
and look at the set list

1385
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,280
and talk about
what it should look like.

1386
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,680
PATERSON: You know, when I came in
and it was frantic, basically.

1387
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:13,560
I mean, we had...
I think it was around 21 days

1388
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,080
to do 18 songs from scratch.

1389
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:18,440
If we can't get it
to sound better than this,

1390
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:20,200
then I'm not doing the show.

1391
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,800
It was straight up boot camp.

1392
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,920
We were in the studio from 10 to 5,
six days a week.

1393
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,840
That was the most stunning thing

1394
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:30,680
about the rehearsal process,

1395
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:34,400
was how deeply involved she was.

1396
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,040
PATERSON:
What she kept saying to me was,

1397
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,920
"I just want to do something
the world has never seen before."

1398
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,320
Tonight, Madonna is rocking
Long Island at the Nassau Coliseum.

1399
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,760
That's where Kelly Wright is
right now live. Kelly?

1400
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:53,280
Rowland it has been quite a show.

1401
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,280
In fact, more than a concert,
it's been like a Broadway musical,

1402
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,760
complete with set design changes

1403
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,520
as well as costume changes.

1404
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,360
She's working hard for the money
on this 1990 world tour

1405
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,640
and what's being called
Blond Ambition.

1406
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,680
(CHEERING)

1407
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,920
Alright America!

1408
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:15,800
PATERSON: We began with Metropolis,

1409
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,680
we ended with Clockwork Orange.

1410
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,240
MADONNA: I'm not really
interested in a rock concert.

1411
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,920
I'm interested in presenting

1412
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,120
more theatre,
so that there's a catharsis,

1413
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,280
there's an emotional arc, there's
a journey that you go through.

1414
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,040
PATERSON: Madonna and I,
we never talked about we're making

1415
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:36,600
some kind of political statement.

1416
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,680
No, it always came from art.
It always came from our hearts.

1417
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,560
If the art is good,
then the statement will be strong.

1418
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,360
MADONNA: I'm not saying you have to

1419
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,360
prescribe to this lifestyle,

1420
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,880
but you know, sometimes
you have to exaggerate things

1421
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:54,600
to wake people up.

1422
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,280
WILBORN: All of us on the
Blond Ambition tour were ethnic.

1423
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,320
Not a single one of them
was a white boy.

1424
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,720
There was no celebration

1425
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,240
of my kind back then.

1426
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,160
And that's why it was important.

1427
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:15,760
PATERSON: The two
female singers were straight,

1428
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,280
and one dancer was straight.
Everybody else was gay.

1429
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:21,640
We were in the age of AIDS

1430
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,280
and that was hugely political.

1431
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:28,600
They became role models in a way,
for young gay men

1432
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,000
who had no role models.

1433
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,080
She was saying, "We're equals here,

1434
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:42,360
we're equals in the bedroom,
we're equals in the boardroom."

1435
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,200
You know, so many people missed it

1436
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,080
because they thought
it was just about the sex.

1437
01:17:56,480 --> 01:17:58,600
And like everything else
that Madonna does,

1438
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,640
this tour is high on shock value.

1439
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,720
So much so, in fact, that when
she recently performed in Toronto,

1440
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,760
some city officials there
wanted it banned

1441
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:07,680
they thought the concert
was so risque.

1442
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:10,800
All of a sudden,
just word comes backstage

1443
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:12,520
that she had to change the show

1444
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,680
or else she could get arrested,
we could all get arrested.

1445
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:17,840
Freddy, all you have to do
is go out there and tell them

1446
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:19,280
I am not changing my show.

1447
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,080
I am an artist, and this is how
I choose to express myself.

1448
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,760
I mean, when the police are there
and talking about it,

1449
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,680
we felt like it was
more important than ever.

1450
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,480
And we were a family.
We were in it together.

1451
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,840
I think when there's a revolution,
some people have to get hurt.

1452
01:18:35,440 --> 01:18:37,960
But the only way
to get people to change

1453
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,680
is to turn the table over

1454
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,480
and some of the dishes get broken.

1455
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,240

(VOCALIZED CHOIR)

1456
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,640
REPORTER: The superstar
has brought her shocking

1457
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,680
concert tour to Italy...

1458
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,640
but Catholics there
are trying to shut it down.

1459
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,000
(TENSE MUSIC)

1460
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,160
MADONNA: Even though there are
all these profane gestures,

1461
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:11,640
I think that my show
is very religious

1462
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,200
and very spiritual.

1463
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,880
You know, I was dealing with

1464
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,440
a lot of people being upset by
my show throughout the whole tour,

1465
01:19:19,480 --> 01:19:21,600
and it never affected me.

1466
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:24,440
But it truly affected me
when I got to Italy.

1467
01:19:24,480 --> 01:19:27,080
If anyone talks...
(MAN SHOUTS IN ITALIAN)

1468
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,960
When I got to Italy,
I expected to be embraced.

1469
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,320
But they slammed
the door in my face.

1470
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:36,880
It was very heavy,
and I think it affected me

1471
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:40,440
much deeper than I was able
to deal with at the time.

1472
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:43,720
(SPEAKS ITALIAN)

1473
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:47,960
(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

1474
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,120
Um, first of all, let me...
before we start properly,

1475
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:00,760
I just wanted to ask you to...

1476
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,000
just relax and don't be
nervous about it.

1477
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:05,520
I'm just a regular guy.
Do I look nervous?

1478
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,400
When-When critics talk about you,
and obviously they do

1479
01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:11,040
on a regular basis,
what I've noticed is recently

1480
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,240
more and more, they talk about
how brilliant you are

1481
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:15,800
at marketing yourself,
and yet rarely it seems anymore

1482
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,000
do they talk about
the songs, the videos,

1483
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:21,440
the live performance, the films.
It's like, Madonna, the phenomena.

1484
01:20:21,480 --> 01:20:25,280
Right. People are so
frightened of my ideas that...

1485
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,080
they try to undermine

1486
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,680
my actual talent or...
or any artistic value

1487
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,800
that may be in any of my work,
and just say,

1488
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,040
"Oh, she's just doing that
to shock people."

1489
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:39,080
Or, "Oh, she just... Oh look,
she's changing her look again.

1490
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:41,160
Oh, she really knows
how to manipulate the media."

1491
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,840
But the fact is,
if that's all I was good at doing,

1492
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,480
I don't think people
would be paying attention to me

1493
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:48,560
for this long.

1494
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:50,160
I mean, I'm still here.

1495
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,160


1496
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,640
I don't think that Madonna ever

1497
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,400
blindly did what she was told.

1498
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:01,840
ANNOUNCER: Madonna!
(CROWD CHEERING)

1499
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,080
But now she had achieved
some kind of autonomy.

1500
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:07,320
("REBEL GIRL" CONTINUES)

1501
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:12,120
MADONNA: As a creative person,
I'm digging deeper and deeper.

1502
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,640
Relationships. Love.

1503
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,880
Humanity. Intolerance. Anger.

1504
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,720

Of the neighbourhood...

1505
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,280
ORECK: She was playing around
with the idea

1506
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:27,680
that everything you see is fake.

1507
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,000


1508
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,760


1509
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,320


1510
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,200

You are the queen of my world...

1511
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,560
You know, I'm none of these things,

1512
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,800
and I'm all of these things.

1513
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,160
You know, here's who I am.

1514
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,600
This is all a show.

1515
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,760
In the "Some things
never change" category,

1516
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,960
Madonna's still trying
to shock all our socks off.

1517
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,800
This time, it's a new book
with a simple title.

1518
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,240
The book is called "Sex."

1519
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,760
It reportedly features extremely
explicit images of Madonna

1520
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,760
without even her trademark lingerie.

1521
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,800
("REBEL GIRL" CONTINUES)

1522
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,720
(MUSIC FADES, ENDS)

1523
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,560
ORECK: Holy fuck.

1524
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,600
The first photographs
are very Robert Mapplethorpe.

1525
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:28,000
They're all set in the
Meat District of New York.

1526
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,360
Basically subbing herself in

1527
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:34,480
for queer men.

1528
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:36,720
(CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC)

1529
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,960
MADONNA: It's always been about,
you know, switching genders

1530
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,920
and playing with that whole
masculine femininity issue.

1531
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:54,880
I don't know. I mean,
the most interesting people to me

1532
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:56,920
are people that aren't
just one way.

1533
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,960
Sex is the metaphor
that I use, really.

1534
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,080
But for me, it's about love.

1535
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:12,880
It's about tolerance.
It's about acceptance.

1536
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:18,160
ORECK: "I'm just about to come, and
she tells me she wants to taste me.

1537
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,000
So, I crawl up to her mouth
and lower my pussy onto her lips,

1538
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:22,520
and her tongue touches my clit,

1539
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,920
and she begins to suck,
and I am destroyed."

1540
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:28,680
I mean, wow.

1541
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:36,320
MADONNA: I mean, I think there's
a lot of humour in the book.

1542
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,560
And if you miss that part of it,
then you're going to miss a lot.

1543
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,000
I don't think
that it will change everybody,

1544
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:48,760
but I think that it will open
some people's mind for the good,

1545
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,000
and that's enough,
as far as I'm concerned.

1546
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:58,840
Four, three, two, one! Go!

1547
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,520
(CROWD CLAMOURING)

1548
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:07,520
Three for each living room.
(LAUGHS)

1549
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,400
The superstar's hot new book
is selling like hotcakes.

1550
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:13,480
Tonight, Heidi Kemp reports
it's about sex, it's about hype.

1551
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,160
It's about 50 bucks.

1552
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:16,960
Oh, hold on, hold on.

1553
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,080
Oh, it's mine! It's mine!

1554
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:21,000
You know, men had not seen

1555
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,480
a woman show herself that way.

1556
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,320
Oh, wait. Hold on.

1557
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:28,600
Look at this!
(ALL EXCLAIM)Woah!

1558
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:32,080
Bend over, baby,
I'm gonna make you smile! Woah!

1559
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:33,720
Disgrace!

1560
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,640
It's horrible.
She needs a lot of attention.

1561
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,360
WILBORN: Men have always known

1562
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:41,840
that women are more powerful
than them.

1563
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,160
Rarely is there a man,
and for sure a straight man,

1564
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:47,520
that will ever admit that.

1565
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:49,560
(APPREHENSIVE MUSIC)

1566
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,480
And I remember thinking that,
you know, you're putting a target

1567
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:59,000
on yourself when you do
this kind of stuff...

1568
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:05,200
but she was adamant she wanted
to make the point about agency.

1569
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:06,960
I think this will scare
a lot of people,

1570
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,000
but to me, I just...

1571
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,560
I see her as a very
honest person to do this.

1572
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,120
I think it's repulsive.
I mean, I think it's repulsive.

1573
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,800
It's not what I believe love
or anything good is about

1574
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,440
and I don't appreciate this
or approve of it.

1575
01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:23,120
(CHUCKLES) Oh, my!

1576
01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:26,280
Wow! Too much.

1577
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,160
I would like to say I think
that she's a great businesswoman.

1578
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,760
I think that that's particularly
the whole reason for this book.

1579
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,240
But with today and AIDS
and all the...

1580
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:38,920
the diseases, I can't see why anyone

1581
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:42,520
would want to promote this book
and-and that type of behaviour.

1582
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:48,400
REPORTER: Madonna's steamy sex book
is being censored in India.

1583
01:25:48,440 --> 01:25:52,440
Japanese censors have eliminated
pictures that show male genitals.

1584
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,080
In France,
police have already seized

1585
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,080
25,000 copies of the book,

1586
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:00,680
saying it may be pornographic.

1587
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:05,240
The Sex book, I think,
was definitely the hardest

1588
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:07,680
she got hit.

1589
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:09,240
(OVERLAPPING CHATTER)

1590
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,400
Some people make promos for MTV,

1591
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:13,600
some people write their...
their autobiographies,

1592
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,120
Madonna gets her kit off
with a couple of bald,

1593
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,440
lesbian, knife-wielding skinheads.

1594
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:20,560
I mean, I think she's worked

1595
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:22,360
very hard on her body.
She's in better shape

1596
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,520
than she's been for years
because she's got actually

1597
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:26,960
rather a dumpy, ugly little body.

1598
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,720
ORECK: Being a female
in American culture

1599
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,360
is that you are
supposed to be a whore,

1600
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,280
but you're not supposed to say
you're a whore.

1601
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:42,680
Everyone is supposed to
hope you are,

1602
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,240
but you're supposed to act like
"I would never do that

1603
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:47,440
because all I want to do
is get married."

1604
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:52,440
(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)

1605
01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:56,080
MADONNA: They want women
to be their sex objects.

1606
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:01,000
They want to control
when they want to see the nudity,

1607
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:03,600
and I'm saying this is,
you know, my body.

1608
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,880
If I wanna take my shirt off,
I'm gonna do it.

1609
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:14,200
ORECK: And Madonna was saying,
like, the sexual power dynamics

1610
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,040
are in my hands.

1611
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,840
I can, you know, uh...

1612
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:21,680
I can fuck like a man.

1613
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,840
MADONNA:
I mean, I don't want a penis.

1614
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:27,560
I just want to be able to play

1615
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,600
all the same games
that humans with penises do.

1616
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,280
WILBORN: You know,
it's fascinating to watch

1617
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:38,520
a woman with this level
of sexual freedom.

1618
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:44,280
The boldness was a blast off...

1619
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:46,320
for everyone.

1620
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:50,640
And everyone would say,
"Oh, it's, you know, it's trash."

1621
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,560
But of course,
everyone went out and bought it.

1622
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:55,360
So I think that's a reflection
on our society, isn't it?

1623
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:57,320
And the dishonesty of most people.

1624
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:02,000
If you're an artist and you have
an open mind about something

1625
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:03,400
like sexual behaviour,

1626
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:05,360
there's still
a whole bunch of people

1627
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,440
who want to pretend to be outraged

1628
01:28:07,480 --> 01:28:10,600
by things that they probably
secretly masturbate to,

1629
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:13,200
you know, in their little
bathrooms in Wichita.

1630
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:14,320
(LAUGHS)

1631
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:16,320
(APPREHENSIVE MUSIC)

1632
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,040
ORECK: If you really want to ask
how she got here,

1633
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,280
I think, you know,
you can draw a straight line

1634
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:40,840
from 1984 with her wearing Boy Toy.

1635
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,600
This is her taking,
you know, male domination

1636
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:49,040
and moving it into
the female universe.

1637
01:28:55,440 --> 01:28:59,640
CICCONE: I think the evolution
of her voice, the music,

1638
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:01,480
the performances,

1639
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:04,480
what we were trying
to present to the world,

1640
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:06,920
came natural.

1641
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:09,960
DE LORY: I mean,
I don't know how many women

1642
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,880
were able to be artists

1643
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:13,600
and show their sexuality,

1644
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,320
and from a real empowered place

1645
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:18,960
with no fear and no shame.

1646
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:22,840
LAMBERT:
It's a form of art to be able to

1647
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:24,880
take an image and subvert it,

1648
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:29,000
and to crack it open and to
show people what's inside of it.

1649
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:32,280
CICCONE: No, and I don't think
she'd be where she is

1650
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,040
if she was
a straightforward personality.

1651
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:41,000
I don't think she cared about

1652
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,080
what the naysayers thought.

1653
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:46,120
She was just poking her finger
in the eye of everybody.

1654
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:47,520
(LAUGHS)

1655
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:50,320
It's a tank just running over
everything in its path.

1656
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:53,960
You know, which she has been doing
since the beginning of time.

1657
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:58,160
MADONNA: To me, the scandal
is only a reflection

1658
01:29:58,200 --> 01:29:59,840
of other people's hang-ups.

1659
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:03,240
It's just that the arena
that I choose to

1660
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:06,320
express myself in is sexuality,

1661
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:10,200
and sexuality has always been
a taboo subject.

1662
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,920
ORECK:
I think Madonna's significance

1663
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,240
continues to reverberate.

1664
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:20,960
If you look at the kids today,

1665
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,880
they don't listen
to men's music as much.

1666
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:25,640
They really look to the women

1667
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,480
to talk to them
about what they need to hear.

1668
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,520
BRAY: If you look at an artist
like Chappell Roan

1669
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,840
and Charli XCX,

1670
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,520
they're singing pop music
that is challenging

1671
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,080
because there's gender fluidity
in the lyrics

1672
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,160
that I don't think
would have existed

1673
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,320
had Madonna not opened the door
for that kind of honesty.

1674
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:50,360
ORECK: I think she learned
a lot from gay men

1675
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:54,360
about how to position yourself
in the world. You know?

1676
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,440
It's like, if you're
a sexual outlaw...

1677
01:30:59,480 --> 01:31:01,080
own it.

1678
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,240
INTERVIEWER:
It's a huge risk to take for a...

1679
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:06,160
big celebrity like yourself,
isn't it?

1680
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:08,120
Well, no risk no glory.

1681
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:09,760


1682
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:12,880

Wearing last night's makeup

1683
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:16,120

With the flash on

1684
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:17,840


1685
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,080


1686
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,080

Real intelligent

1687
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,360

Drawing dead eyes

1688
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:29,880

Heard she likes when people say it

1689
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,600

But you don't

1690
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,080


1691
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:39,520


1692
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,360

Break-your-boyfriend's-heart girls

1693
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:47,040

Tearing-shit-apart girls.

1694
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:50,480
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