1 00:00:16,309 --> 00:00:17,710 Previously on The Hack. 2 00:00:17,990 --> 00:00:21,170 Hacking phones at the news of the world has been endemic. 3 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:23,390 Endemic. They've hacked thousands. 4 00:00:23,650 --> 00:00:26,830 There is an industry making huge profits from evading people's private lives, 5 00:00:26,930 --> 00:00:30,650 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids have explicitly encouraged it and are 6 00:00:30,650 --> 00:00:35,010 buying it. Charlotte Harris, Nick Davis of The Guardian. I can't talk to you 7 00:00:35,010 --> 00:00:39,090 about specific cases, but I can tell you there is so much more to come. 8 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:40,470 Show me what you have. 9 00:00:40,570 --> 00:00:45,210 Printout of an email proving a payment of £7 ,000 to Mulcair, Prestorium, 10 00:00:45,210 --> 00:00:48,860 Taylor. And the police have access to all of this and more. In my opinion, 11 00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:53,800 I've seen is a most careful investigation by very experienced 12 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,600 since no additional evidence has come to light, I can see no reason to reopen 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,600 the inquiry. 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,800 Kisama's conducting a review. 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,080 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see her surgically. 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:05,820 Are you reading the statement? 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,240 No. 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:09,940 But I do have things to say. 19 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:17,710 To your voicemail, you have three new messages. 20 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:20,730 To listen to your messages, press one. 21 00:01:22,090 --> 00:01:23,090 The bar here. 22 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:25,170 Just wondering when you're over. 23 00:01:25,650 --> 00:01:28,870 Oh, uh, the kit and tap seems to be fixed now. 24 00:01:29,470 --> 00:01:30,470 Which is good. 25 00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:32,730 So, uh... Message deleted. 26 00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:34,310 Next message. 27 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:35,530 Nick, it's Sheridan. 28 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:39,750 Um, just to say I got a call from the bank today. They said it's in relation 29 00:01:39,750 --> 00:01:43,170 the remortgage, but... I felt like someone was fishing. 30 00:01:43,930 --> 00:01:44,930 Message deleted. 31 00:01:45,250 --> 00:01:46,310 Next message. 32 00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:51,650 Nick, we put together a legal response for Alan, but we need to speak to you 33 00:01:51,650 --> 00:01:52,650 about the select committee. 34 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:04,870 Don't you dare. 35 00:02:08,110 --> 00:02:09,410 Has Alan rung again? 36 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:11,130 Possibly. 37 00:02:11,650 --> 00:02:12,650 Possibly? 38 00:02:15,690 --> 00:02:17,670 Could be the school telling him my son's broken his leg. 39 00:02:18,450 --> 00:02:19,930 Or Rebecca Brooks declaring surrender. 40 00:02:20,990 --> 00:02:25,190 Or it could be Alan asking where I am and whether David Lee is with me. I 41 00:02:25,190 --> 00:02:26,830 answer. I don't want to lie to him. 42 00:02:27,570 --> 00:02:28,890 Perhaps a little voicemail. 43 00:02:30,510 --> 00:02:31,510 Why are we here? 44 00:02:32,490 --> 00:02:34,450 Good question. Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 45 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:38,550 Now, we have a lot of questions, so try and keep opening statements short. 46 00:02:38,910 --> 00:02:41,170 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 47 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:44,790 But I do have quite a lot for me to say. 48 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:49,680 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email. 49 00:02:49,940 --> 00:02:53,620 With respect, Mr Davies, we have quite a few questions for you. I understand 50 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:56,280 that, but I think your questions will be given context. Let's open with a 51 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:57,720 question from... Mr Whittingdale. 52 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Do you want the evidence or not? 53 00:03:04,140 --> 00:03:05,300 I would like to read it. 54 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:18,900 There you go. 55 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:26,640 This is an email sent for Neville Solbeck, chief reporter for News of the 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,760 A document the police have had for some time. 57 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,780 A document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails. 58 00:03:34,660 --> 00:03:36,780 I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims. 59 00:03:37,380 --> 00:03:41,280 But what's more unsettling is that Scotland Yard have never arrested or 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,160 interviewed Neville Solbeck. 61 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,940 My chief concern is that... Mr. Davis, it's all very dramatic, but if we can 62 00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:51,400 back to the matter in hand... Mr. Whittingdale, I'm very worried that news 63 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,560 international journalists have been breaking the law, and equally worried 64 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,440 Scotland Yard do not appear to have investigated them. 65 00:04:05,260 --> 00:04:08,300 Mr. Davis, this is all very dramatic. 66 00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:13,190 It's amazing what you can do with... Kids glue and some black paper. 67 00:04:14,450 --> 00:04:18,589 You've got your kids to redact it. They enjoyed it. They like craft. 68 00:04:20,550 --> 00:04:21,550 Good revolutionary. 69 00:04:23,770 --> 00:04:27,310 What was that letter Che Guevara wrote to his kids? 70 00:04:30,590 --> 00:04:31,590 Alan. 71 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:34,330 Hi. 72 00:04:35,990 --> 00:04:36,990 Oh, it's fine. 73 00:04:37,750 --> 00:04:39,310 I think we got away with it. 74 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,360 What are they saying? 75 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,320 Yes. 76 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,860 Can you just... Yes. 77 00:04:56,780 --> 00:04:59,200 Right. Thanks for letting me know. 78 00:05:02,620 --> 00:05:04,440 David Leopard, the Sunday Times. 79 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,180 Why is Leopard sending you? It wasn't him. 80 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,120 Leopard's spreading a story that I hired John Ford to hack voicemail. 81 00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:17,370 It's apparently all over Parliament. John Ford the blagger. 82 00:05:18,610 --> 00:05:23,190 They're saying it's in relation to our investigation of Monsanto. I did use an 83 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:24,190 intelligence farm. 84 00:05:24,710 --> 00:05:25,710 Mnemosis. 85 00:05:26,510 --> 00:05:30,930 It's possible they subcontracted to John Ford. 86 00:05:33,330 --> 00:05:35,690 The Guardian isn't in trouble anymore. 87 00:05:36,890 --> 00:05:37,890 I am. 88 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,420 John Ford has had his hand in and out of Alastair Campbell's trash for years, 89 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:07,600 but his real talent was for blagging. 90 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,120 An ex -actor with style, he did all sorts to get all sorts. 91 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Gordon Brown's bank records were one. 92 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:24,040 And Alan may have hired him, which, well, the newspaper industry loves a 93 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,340 bit of hypocrisy to expose. 94 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:40,040 Morning. Not the face you were hoping to wake up to. 95 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:49,720 Now, I think the time has come to admit that John Ford isn't home. 96 00:06:51,060 --> 00:06:54,080 David Lee, investigations editor at the Guardian. 97 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,380 Also, Alan's brother -in -law. The Sunday Times have got him well hid. 98 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,220 All right, give him another day. 99 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,120 Perhaps we can get hold of Alan's paper trail. 100 00:07:09,660 --> 00:07:11,520 Get inside the intelligence firm. 101 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:13,040 Start again. 102 00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:16,700 It'll take them long. They'll publish before... Then Alan will take a hit, and 103 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:22,400 we hope he survives it. But sitting here, Nick, it's getting us nowhere. 104 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,800 This is not all my fault. 105 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:27,680 Murdoch's an eel. 106 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:30,320 He's entirely relentless. 107 00:07:30,940 --> 00:07:32,560 I'm not picking a fight with Murdoch. 108 00:07:32,900 --> 00:07:33,900 No. 109 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,780 I'm pitting a fight with our entire industry. 110 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,600 Don't answer it. 111 00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:41,960 No, do, do, don't let them leave a voicemail. 112 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,160 It's an email. 113 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,180 A statement from the Crown Prosecution Service. 114 00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:56,220 The CPS says it's not appropriate to reopen the case or revisit the decision. 115 00:07:58,020 --> 00:07:59,660 They're not backing us. 116 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:05,770 What was it that John Yates said about the case? Something about a small number 117 00:08:05,770 --> 00:08:07,050 of... Of hacks, yeah. 118 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:11,410 Our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic against a far smaller number 119 00:08:11,410 --> 00:08:12,410 of individuals. 120 00:08:12,970 --> 00:08:13,970 Page two. 121 00:08:15,190 --> 00:08:20,190 Searchmore Care's office sees material which indicated some non -royal cases 122 00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:26,570 been hacked. The DPP states only a select sample of these could be taken to 123 00:08:26,570 --> 00:08:27,570 court because... 124 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,480 Any other approach might have made the case unmanageable. 125 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:36,799 Unmanageable? That's just a loss of hacking by more than one reporter. 126 00:08:37,059 --> 00:08:38,059 Yeah. 127 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,120 Almost an admission assumption. 128 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:43,919 All right, you call. 129 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:45,480 Got it. 130 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,640 That means you need to leave the car. 131 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,240 Got it. Yeah. 132 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,000 Hi, this is Nick Davis of The Guardian. Hi there. 133 00:08:55,260 --> 00:08:58,340 I need to speak to somebody at the CPS about the Glenn Mulcair prosecution. 134 00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,860 Yes, but specifically how can I help you? Specifically, I want to know what 135 00:09:03,860 --> 00:09:08,140 police passed up and you declined to prosecute because any other approach 136 00:09:08,140 --> 00:09:12,940 have been, quote, unmanageable. I have information, particularly an email, that 137 00:09:12,940 --> 00:09:13,940 I want to discuss. 138 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,320 Yes, sir. 139 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:17,520 Can I pick you a hold? 140 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:18,800 Yes, I will hold. 141 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:22,940 Really? 142 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,640 The plot thickens. 143 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:30,760 The Neville email was never flagged. The Met never flagged it to the CPS. 144 00:09:31,460 --> 00:09:32,460 Why not? 145 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,980 I can't get this up. It's too important. 146 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,440 No, no. 147 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,200 I won't let it hurt Alan. 148 00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:44,020 I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise. 149 00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:06,040 Hi. Hi. 150 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,040 Here's your sandwich. 151 00:10:08,060 --> 00:10:09,060 Oh, cheers. 152 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:13,720 You look rough. 153 00:10:14,780 --> 00:10:15,780 Yeah, and you look beautiful. 154 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,280 I'm not sleeping. 155 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:20,620 No, neither am I. 156 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:22,880 Daniel Morgan. 157 00:10:23,060 --> 00:10:25,080 Anyway, I can... I can't tell you, and you know that. 158 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:27,200 They're coming to town. 159 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,720 Christ, salmon and cream cheese, eh? 160 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:32,100 Scottish salmon. 161 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:33,740 And I need some... 162 00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:36,190 Non -Daniel Morgan advice. 163 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:38,730 Oh, you're saying Ponzi -Simonies don't come free? 164 00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:45,050 Why would the men not flag evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service? 165 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:47,670 CPS don't get everything. 166 00:10:48,250 --> 00:10:51,150 And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test, right? 167 00:10:51,370 --> 00:10:52,530 Correct. Okay. 168 00:10:55,150 --> 00:10:56,690 So, is this relevant? 169 00:10:57,130 --> 00:11:00,390 They're transcripts for Neville Felbeck, chief reporter at the New Zealand. 170 00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:07,350 And they didn't get shown this? They put it through as unused material. 171 00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:09,810 Shit. 172 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:13,350 Tell me, what is happening in the Met? 173 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:17,710 Well, there's obviously a lot I can't tell you, but what can't I? 174 00:11:18,950 --> 00:11:22,830 Ever since Stephen Lawrence, the Met have made it their job. 175 00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:25,950 Well, Dick Fedorchian, Director of Communications? 176 00:11:26,290 --> 00:11:29,690 Yeah, I've met him. Well, he currently sits in the Met's senior management 177 00:11:29,810 --> 00:11:30,930 or comms chief. 178 00:11:31,420 --> 00:11:34,960 not a police officer, and he has direct impact on operational decisions. 179 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:37,300 Good press matters that much. 180 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,260 These meetings are dominated by how to get the cases that are going well in the 181 00:11:43,260 --> 00:11:46,220 front of the tabloid and the cases that are not going so well off them. 182 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,160 By order of the commissioner, Dick will whine and dine the crime journalists and 183 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:53,340 guess who he meets the most. 184 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:55,980 News of the world in the sun. 185 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,300 But not flagging this to the CPS. 186 00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:03,690 Fine. Look, you can stop doing that. You're making me jumpy. I think I'm 187 00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:05,170 watched. What are you, Anthony? 188 00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:06,590 You, for one thing. 189 00:12:07,050 --> 00:12:09,950 Hey, I'm just meeting a pal for a fancy signage. 190 00:12:11,330 --> 00:12:16,470 Glenn Mulcair did a minimum 20 ,000 hours work for the use of the world. 191 00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:21,050 That's on record. It's an industrial level of work, which means he worked for 192 00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:25,090 far more journalists than Clive Goodman. So Neville Felbeck appeared to be one 193 00:12:25,090 --> 00:12:27,450 other, but was he feeding all of them? 194 00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:30,170 Nick, just be careful, OK? 195 00:12:31,210 --> 00:12:34,410 If you lose people, I might be fucked with. 196 00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:45,710 Take a look. 197 00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:47,670 Scott Harris? 198 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:48,910 Nick Davies. 199 00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:50,370 Right. 200 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:52,630 You sound delighted to hear from me. 201 00:12:53,290 --> 00:12:54,790 Delighted and not surprised. 202 00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:56,890 How did you get this number? Did you flag it? 203 00:12:57,130 --> 00:13:00,050 Your office gave it to me. I can be very polite and surprisingly charming. 204 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,500 If you're calling about the TPS announcement, I'm just as good as you 205 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:04,500 there's little I can do. 206 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,620 Look, the TPS have a file on Glenn Mulcair. You must know somebody. Nick, I 207 00:13:08,620 --> 00:13:11,080 don't work for you and I've got to go. Good luck and goodbye. 208 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,720 Glenn Mulcair, chief phone 209 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,160 hacker for the news of the world, given six months of jail time for the Clive 210 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,500 Goodman case, but now he's out and about and it's nothing about. 211 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:40,100 Marquette, Nick Davis. 212 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,640 I saw you. 213 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:44,580 Maroon star by the park. 214 00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:48,160 You think I'd do what I do without being good at it? 215 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:50,840 I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in the Guardian. 216 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:52,500 Are you taping this? 217 00:13:53,140 --> 00:13:55,900 No, I know. I wouldn't do that without your consent, Mr Marquette. 218 00:13:56,740 --> 00:13:57,740 It's Glenn. 219 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:02,160 So who else are you talking to, Nick? Got anyone good in the police? 220 00:14:02,780 --> 00:14:05,980 Who are you still talking to at that paper? 221 00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:08,060 You're funny. 222 00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:12,500 Why are you here? Did you ever work for Neville Thirlby? 223 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:19,080 Right. Let me save you some time. I have an email written to you, which is 224 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,560 marked for Neville, from Ross Hindley, and it contains transcripts of 35... 225 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:24,940 Everything I did came out in court. 226 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,100 Anything more than that, I didn't do. They cut you off, right? 227 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,720 You do know you're still open to future charges. 228 00:14:32,980 --> 00:14:36,600 Get out now before the whole thing collapses. You know I've got five kids 229 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,960 there. And you come to my house, and what threatened me? I wasn't threatening 230 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,840 you. Have you any idea what you're dealing with here? 231 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,960 Look, you do yours, and I'll do mine. Yeah? 232 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:50,220 I wasn't threatening you. I was just telling you they won't help. 233 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:56,300 Okay, so... 234 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,440 There is a lie happening here. The CPS memo shows this stretch is right inside 235 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,440 News International. 236 00:15:01,660 --> 00:15:05,060 Glenn Mulcair essentially confirmed it. He didn't confirm it. I'm digging in. In 237 00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:09,520 the meantime, I'd like to publish our Scotland Yard scared of Rupert Murdoch. 238 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Saying what? 239 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,160 Saying they buried evidence which should have been passed to the CPS. Poking the 240 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,560 bear. Well, that's what we do now, poke the bear. No. Can we just take a minute? 241 00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:23,020 What's your angle here? Well, I have two lines of attack. One, to reveal who was 242 00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:24,620 on their shopping list. I need names. 243 00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:26,520 Much more of them. There were far more than... 244 00:15:27,070 --> 00:15:30,070 Three rulers, five non -rulers. I want to know who signed off on these names. I 245 00:15:30,070 --> 00:15:32,670 mean, proof it was more than Clive Goodman. How will you get that proof? 246 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:35,610 My second line of attack is to get inside the police. A mistake. 247 00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:40,930 To discover why this evidence wasn't flagged to the CPS. What criminality was 248 00:15:40,930 --> 00:15:41,930 ignored and why? 249 00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:44,650 John Yates called me and said, we've got the wrong end of the stick with the 250 00:15:44,650 --> 00:15:47,490 police in all of this. We're on the wrong end of the stick. Yes, do you not 251 00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:48,490 think that's possible? 252 00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:51,750 Look, we call this insensible. 253 00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:55,210 We're risking our relationship with the police and with good journalists from 254 00:15:55,210 --> 00:15:59,670 other newspapers. Why? To root out a few bad apples. Bad apples? Wrong sticks. 255 00:16:00,150 --> 00:16:04,850 I agree with Nick. The Neville email is extraordinary, and the fact that they 256 00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:08,250 didn't flag it to the CPS, more extraordinary still. 257 00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:12,490 A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking that didn't warrant 258 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:16,570 investigation. There are potentially thousands of victims, but the Met is 259 00:16:16,570 --> 00:16:17,570 claiming a small number. 260 00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:18,690 What do you think, Jill? 261 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:22,680 For a public interest offence, you need to be absolutely sure of your facts. 262 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,860 Right now, they feel a bit small. 263 00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:26,280 Well, I have to say I agree. 264 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,020 Let's pause on the Scotland Yard article. 265 00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:32,600 Let's let the PCC... Press Complaints Committee. 266 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,860 The PCC will settle all this down. 267 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,240 They'll back us, and it'll all be easier. 268 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,680 What else have we got? 269 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,140 Something other than, when's Gordon Brown going to call this next damn 270 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:48,800 Listen, Alan's nervous, but he's right. 271 00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:54,960 You need more, but the angles you're pursuing, also right. Who says the PCC 272 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:55,799 going to back us? 273 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:56,840 Well, you don't think they will? 274 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,480 Why is Alan waiting for them? You know we have to keep pushing. 275 00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:01,260 Kill or be killed, we can't wait. 276 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,819 Yes, the Sunday Times are getting ready to publish on John Ford and Alan. 277 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:07,839 Right. 278 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,040 Have Lumos has come back with any more? 279 00:17:11,060 --> 00:17:13,040 Nothing that gives us categorical proof. 280 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,760 He's in trouble. 281 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,260 Just give him time. 282 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,319 They're accusing him of being a hypocrite. We have hypocrisy on 283 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:22,319 world's gone mad. 284 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,839 Look, Nick. 285 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:26,720 Nick. 286 00:17:28,060 --> 00:17:29,060 No, 287 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,860 Nick. Nick, Nick, whatever you're doing, Nick, stop. 288 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,360 Hello. Hi, this is Nick Davis of The Guardian. Try the Sunday Times managing 289 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:45,620 editors. I mean it. 290 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,960 Hello? Hi, this is Nick Davis of the Guardian. Hi. 291 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:54,300 Yeah. 292 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:59,080 I'd like confirmation on the record of, A, how many times you've made payments 293 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:04,540 to John Ford to blag into confidential databases, and, B, the period of time 294 00:18:04,540 --> 00:18:06,260 over which these payments have been made. 295 00:18:06,460 --> 00:18:09,800 Okay, we'll need to investigate. Of course, we'll need to do some 296 00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:12,960 You just call me back whenever you've had the chance to do so, yeah? 297 00:18:13,220 --> 00:18:14,500 Okay. All right. 298 00:18:15,620 --> 00:18:16,499 Great, bye. 299 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:17,500 Bye -bye. 300 00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:28,780 Hi. 301 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:30,880 Peter Frank. 302 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,440 I don't drink. 303 00:18:33,980 --> 00:18:35,020 Can I get you something softer? 304 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:36,700 A Mars bar. 305 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,620 Yeah, sure, I'll tell you everything I know for a Mars bar. I wasn't... I'm not 306 00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:43,300 threatening you. No, no, you're Willy Wonka. 307 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:44,640 Chocolate for everyone. 308 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,080 I want to know your side of the story. 309 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:50,280 How did you find me here? 310 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,720 You're on the club's website. 311 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:54,720 You won the big break competition here two years ago. Congratulations. 312 00:18:56,260 --> 00:19:00,020 Court transcripts. It says that you worked for News of the World for 70 313 00:19:00,020 --> 00:19:01,020 week. Here we go. 314 00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:03,560 Over six years, that's over 20 ,000 hours. 315 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,420 What were you doing for them during that time? I'm a PI. 316 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:09,020 The PI work. 317 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,240 For whom? 318 00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:12,180 Because it wasn't just Club Goodman. 319 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,680 Naming names has two miles bars at least. 320 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:15,940 I know. 321 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,320 You aren't to blame for all this. Your name is in the mud already. If you 322 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,760 explain exactly what you did... I know. ...and who you were working for... If I 323 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:24,880 wanted to tell you who... 324 00:19:25,230 --> 00:19:28,430 Please, I've got all my notebooks and my computers and everything, so... 325 00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:29,430 Notebooks? 326 00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:31,350 What's in those? 327 00:19:33,010 --> 00:19:34,010 Fuck you. 328 00:19:34,050 --> 00:19:37,390 It was in the CPS report that your office was searched, the material was 329 00:19:37,390 --> 00:19:38,390 but I didn't know there were notebooks. 330 00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:40,370 You find me a PI who doesn't write things down. 331 00:19:40,670 --> 00:19:41,670 Yeah, well, what's in them? 332 00:19:42,030 --> 00:19:43,030 Lines of inquiry? 333 00:19:44,610 --> 00:19:47,750 Names of people you were hacking? Sorry, doing PI work on. 334 00:19:48,650 --> 00:19:50,270 And the names of who you were doing them for? 335 00:19:52,030 --> 00:19:53,470 Names of News of the World journalists? 336 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,420 Go away and take your cheap beer with you. 337 00:19:58,060 --> 00:20:02,800 I do not think, genuinely, really do not think that you should be the fool guy 338 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,540 here. Yeah, well, be careful that you're not a fool guy too. 339 00:20:07,020 --> 00:20:08,020 Hey, champ? 340 00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:10,560 Now, please fuck off. 341 00:20:11,780 --> 00:20:13,380 Let me do the one thing I still enjoy. 342 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:14,840 All right. 343 00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:16,980 Good luck. 344 00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:24,830 Mulcair's given me an idea. 345 00:20:25,130 --> 00:20:25,989 Oh, good. 346 00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:27,030 All he's given me is a headache. 347 00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:30,510 We need to get inside the court system. We need to get more information 348 00:20:30,510 --> 00:20:31,890 released. Sorry? 349 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:34,290 They won't release documents to me. 350 00:20:34,490 --> 00:20:35,950 They will if they're compelled to by a judge. 351 00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:37,710 Hang on. Can you calm down? 352 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:40,370 What? Children. 353 00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:42,650 You are aware it's the weekend. 354 00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:46,690 All right. The police have Mulcair's notebooks. If we can get them into the 355 00:20:46,690 --> 00:20:50,830 public eye, we'll see who hired who, how high this goes, who was being hacked. 356 00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:52,510 I mean, we need... 357 00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:53,730 Compelled evidence. 358 00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:57,650 Who's fought between I need and we need in the same sentence? Do you know that? 359 00:20:58,030 --> 00:21:01,050 I know you by the clients. I know you're building several cases here. 360 00:21:01,330 --> 00:21:03,070 Help me. It'll help you too. 361 00:21:04,790 --> 00:21:08,730 We don't work together, Nick. Well, of course we don't, but we do have the same 362 00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:13,570 cause. I can't get inside the notebooks because I'm not mentioned in the 363 00:21:13,570 --> 00:21:18,270 notebooks. But you'll find a client who is in there, where the bravery to take 364 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:19,730 it to court suddenly... 365 00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:23,280 You can see how much this opens up. 366 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:31,280 Let me, um... There might be somebody you could talk to. 367 00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:35,960 Well, let me know as soon as you can, OK? Yes, I heard you. I'm on it. 368 00:21:36,340 --> 00:21:37,440 OK, thanks. Bye. 369 00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:47,060 There is an art to fear. 370 00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:51,520 An art, the news of the world and the sun and all those nasty buggers mastered 371 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,280 long time ago. They call it monstering. 372 00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:55,340 Grievous emotional harm. 373 00:21:56,020 --> 00:21:59,060 The kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover. 374 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,720 A monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved and it is intended to 375 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,080 make sure that no one stands up to them ever again. 376 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,960 Take former Labour government minister Claire Short. 377 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,040 She criticised the sun's use of topless women to sell the paper. She found 378 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,860 herself denounced to millions as... 379 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:18,070 Killjoy Claire. 380 00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:19,590 Short on looks. 381 00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:21,510 Short on brains. 382 00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:24,070 The paper offered free car stickers. 383 00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:26,690 Sent page three models round to her home. 384 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:30,870 Ran a beauty contest to ask their readers whether they would prefer to see 385 00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:32,750 face or the back of a buck. 386 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:41,710 The news of the world ran two bogus stories suggesting Claire was involved 387 00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:45,390 pornography. Tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20 -year -old in 388 00:22:45,390 --> 00:22:49,080 nightdress. and published a smear story which attempted to link her to a West 389 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,080 Indian gangster. 390 00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:52,720 They monstered her. 391 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,520 It was horrible. 392 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,500 In his diary, Alastair Campbell recalls the ferocious monstering which was given 393 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,700 to the then Transport Secretary Stephen Byers in 2002. 394 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,400 He continued even after he resigned. 395 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,360 It's like they get a corpse, then they're disappointed there's nothing 396 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,900 kill. So they try and kill the dead body too. 397 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:17,380 So standing up to it, standing up to that paper takes guts. 398 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,100 And possibly a little insanity. 399 00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:23,580 Max, it's an honour. 400 00:23:24,340 --> 00:23:25,340 An honour? 401 00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:26,740 Is that right? 402 00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:30,520 Max Clifford, king of the kiss and tell. 403 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,900 His job was bargaining with the tabloids to get the best headlines and the most 404 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:36,660 money for his string of clients. 405 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,060 Didn't need to be true, just needed to sell. 406 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:42,340 Do you remember Freddie Star ate my hamster? 407 00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:44,130 He wrote that headline. 408 00:23:45,130 --> 00:23:48,290 But maybe it takes a tabloid man to kill the tabloids. 409 00:23:49,150 --> 00:23:51,250 I'm sincerely grateful for you being here. 410 00:23:51,790 --> 00:23:52,970 Charlotte explained your problem. 411 00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:55,990 But I have a feeling that our interests might align on this. 412 00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:57,470 They hacked me. 413 00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:58,730 That's on record. 414 00:23:59,290 --> 00:24:03,350 And I want to find out who signed off on it. Well, that's extremely important. 415 00:24:03,390 --> 00:24:05,350 We hope it will be important. 416 00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:08,770 We've had our first disclosure. We made an application to the court. 417 00:24:09,250 --> 00:24:11,930 This is everything Mulcair wrote about Max. 418 00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:22,110 They've redacted everyone. 419 00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:25,390 In particular, anything which might identify the News of the World 420 00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:27,010 who might have commissioned the hacking. 421 00:24:27,330 --> 00:24:29,690 I'm going back to court. We'll get more. 422 00:24:30,110 --> 00:24:33,070 Question. When they disclosed Gordon Taylor's paperwork, did they redact 423 00:24:33,070 --> 00:24:34,110 anything? No. 424 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:35,570 Why start now? 425 00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:38,110 Because it implicates them. So did Gordon Taylor. 426 00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:43,470 They're working out how to make themselves impenetrable. 427 00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:45,820 They're watching us. 428 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,360 You do know what you're taking on. 429 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:50,480 Do you know who you're talking to? 430 00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:52,720 I believe Rebecca Brooks is your friend. 431 00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:55,340 Didn't you help her when she was accused of assault? 432 00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:57,600 I help her, but not in that case. 433 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,860 I have my loyalties, and I have beliefs. 434 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,360 I mean, I know Andy Coulson. 435 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,820 Him, sitting next to the Prime Minister. 436 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:08,060 That's wrong in every way. 437 00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:12,240 You're the same. I spent my entire life inside that machine. 438 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,140 I know what their guns smell like. 439 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:17,100 Do you? 440 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,400 We need you, Max. 441 00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:23,780 Christ. If I'm your best hope, you're fucked. 442 00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:30,260 You look tired. 443 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,040 Are you sleeping? 444 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:34,660 Oh, I definitely slept better. 445 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,280 That mortgage application, did that come back at all? 446 00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:40,600 No, but there was something else. 447 00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:47,780 So when I was picking the kids up, someone I didn't recognise started 448 00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:49,440 me about a Maggie someone. 449 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,580 Now that's an ex of yours, right? 450 00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:54,100 Oh, God, did they see the kids? 451 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,140 Yeah, I mean, they kept it casual, but... Shit! 452 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,000 Maggie? God, they're desperately digging. 453 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,460 I didn't like it, Nick. 454 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:06,500 It's Gorgate. 455 00:26:07,860 --> 00:26:11,200 Well, look, they approach you again, you take out your phone, you take a 456 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,200 photograph. 457 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,140 Okay, and promise me it's not going to get worse than this. 458 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:20,680 Well, they'd be really stupid to do anything I could print, but I'm sorry. 459 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,680 really sorry. 460 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,520 Will they find any skeletons? 461 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,180 If they look properly, they'll find a cemetery. 462 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:30,020 This is a delivery. 463 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:31,960 Stay where you are. No, no, let me go. 464 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,180 We'll talk later. 465 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:35,499 Bye, kids. 466 00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:36,500 Bye -bye. 467 00:26:41,070 --> 00:26:44,170 How are you? I'm good. You all right? I am. 468 00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:46,030 I'm... Hello. 469 00:26:46,850 --> 00:26:47,850 You coming in? 470 00:26:49,370 --> 00:26:51,550 No. I've got food on. There's enough. 471 00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:56,790 I had some good news, actually. Max Clifford, all people, taking them to 472 00:26:57,310 --> 00:26:58,750 John Ford thing's gone away. 473 00:27:01,470 --> 00:27:02,470 Wait. 474 00:27:03,410 --> 00:27:04,790 You think I don't know how? 475 00:27:06,410 --> 00:27:07,410 Let's talk inside. 476 00:27:07,450 --> 00:27:08,450 Nick Davies. 477 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,640 Always guaranteed to bring a flamethrower to a knife fight. 478 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,200 It was the best thing to do. 479 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,820 You didn't think to consult me beforehand? 480 00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:21,320 It's gone away, Alan. Because you, um... What's the right word to use here? 481 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,940 Provoked them. In Flat Earth News, I found substantial proof that the Sunday 482 00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:28,380 Times were using John Ford. That doesn't matter. Of course it matters. 483 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,440 They were wrong to use John Ford. I was wrong if I did inadvertently use John 484 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,920 Ford. And you were wrong to get involved in a way that wasn't. 485 00:27:38,170 --> 00:27:39,870 Asked for and wasn't warranted. 486 00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:44,710 I was trying to broker peace with John Witherow, and you could have 487 00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:48,130 that. And starting a fight with the News of the World and the Sunday Times. 488 00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:51,850 I knew it would work. Are you denying that it did? No. But if you knew it 489 00:27:51,850 --> 00:27:54,510 work, why didn't you make that call at the very beginning? 490 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:58,690 Why did you try and find him? Spent a couple of nights in a car with David 491 00:27:58,770 --> 00:27:59,790 Jesus Christ, Nick. 492 00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:03,210 You're such a... hazard. 493 00:28:03,710 --> 00:28:07,210 I was just following what was... Alan, come on. Look. 494 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,840 We need to keep pushing. 495 00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:11,500 They will push back. We need to keep pushing. 496 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:12,700 I get it. 497 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,080 You're exhausted. 498 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,260 You think you're taking on everyone by yourself. But it's not just you in the 499 00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:18,320 box on this one, Nick. 500 00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:19,700 It's all of us. 501 00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:23,500 I can't have a hand on your leg the whole time. 502 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,760 Stupid child. 503 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Yeah. I guess she'd be up. 504 00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:07,900 Yep. The Press Complaints Commission have come back. 505 00:29:08,780 --> 00:29:09,780 Not good news. 506 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,660 The PCC has seen no new evidence to suggest that the practice of the phone 507 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:19,500 messaging tapping was undertaken by other beyond Goodman and Mulcair. Or 508 00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:23,160 evidence... that the News of the World executives knew about Goodman or 509 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,160 Mulcair's activities. 510 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,900 You were right. Alan was wrong. They haven't backed us either. 511 00:29:28,580 --> 00:29:29,580 Yeah, OK. 512 00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:30,780 Sorry, Nick. 513 00:29:30,860 --> 00:29:31,860 Thanks for calling. 514 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,240 Bye. Bye. 515 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,040 Please enter your four -digit PIN. 516 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,610 Welcome to your voicemail. You have... Four new messages. 517 00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:53,510 To listen to your messages, press one. 518 00:29:54,590 --> 00:29:55,549 There's a call. 519 00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:57,790 I'm going to read your meter. You said you'd be here this morning. 520 00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:58,990 Message deleted. 521 00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:00,250 Next message. 522 00:30:00,690 --> 00:30:01,890 Hey, it's Charlotte. 523 00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:05,630 We've entered the imminent claim for Max, and we're waiting for the courts to 524 00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:06,630 get... Message deleted. 525 00:30:07,030 --> 00:30:08,030 Next message. 526 00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:09,550 Nick, hi. It's me. 527 00:30:10,010 --> 00:30:13,830 Another one. I'm not sure if it's anything, but a girl you used... 528 00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:50,450 Hello, Dad. 529 00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:53,310 You're looking fit. 530 00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:54,990 You look good. 531 00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:57,210 Still a charmer. 532 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:13,450 Might as well be helping with that, Papa. 533 00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:15,650 Could, would, could. 534 00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:17,690 No, you can't. 535 00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:20,970 Anyway, these are the good hours. 536 00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:22,190 What's that mean? 537 00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:29,550 Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11am and then again from 3pm. 538 00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:30,850 But 11 till 3? 539 00:31:31,210 --> 00:31:32,210 It's a holiday. 540 00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:33,770 Never get old. 541 00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:40,450 So you've got four good hours and you sleep for presumably eight. Yes, we're 542 00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:41,950 going to turn it into a maths puzzle. 543 00:31:42,510 --> 00:31:46,030 I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel. 544 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:47,890 That's all that counts. 545 00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:53,170 The crossword in the Times. 546 00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:56,190 Should I stop buying the Times? 547 00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:57,650 Yes. 548 00:31:58,630 --> 00:32:00,210 I won't. I know. 549 00:32:01,810 --> 00:32:04,070 I've, um, been reading your pieces. 550 00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:07,810 You've managed to watch the Select Committee. I have no idea how you even 551 00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:09,470 that. I'm not a dinosaur. 552 00:32:09,790 --> 00:32:10,890 I can use the Internet. 553 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:15,590 So is it all... 554 00:32:16,110 --> 00:32:17,490 As hard as it looks. 555 00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:18,710 It's fine. 556 00:32:21,650 --> 00:32:23,050 You've got nothing to prove. 557 00:32:23,610 --> 00:32:24,730 I'm not going to prove anything. 558 00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:35,790 Your mother would have liked it. 559 00:32:36,450 --> 00:32:37,570 All this trouble. 560 00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:39,890 She always liked trouble. 561 00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:48,020 Just be safe with yourself. 562 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:49,940 That's all I ask. 563 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,320 Just be safe. 564 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,040 Thank you. 565 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,600 Sit, lawyer. 566 00:33:30,830 --> 00:33:31,589 Mr. Davis. 567 00:33:31,590 --> 00:33:33,230 Thank you for coming in. 568 00:33:33,570 --> 00:33:34,570 Thank you. 569 00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:36,210 Dick said we should meet. 570 00:33:36,570 --> 00:33:39,790 Yes. Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting. 571 00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:44,530 I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over so we can help each other. 572 00:33:45,730 --> 00:33:46,730 I don't think I can help. 573 00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:48,190 No, no, no. I'm here to help you. 574 00:33:48,490 --> 00:33:52,970 A story that makes Scotland Yard look good. I just need you to confirm that in 575 00:33:52,970 --> 00:33:54,050 order to be able to... 576 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,340 Inform all the potential victims of the hacking that you've set up a new 577 00:33:58,340 --> 00:34:01,940 database containing all the evidence which you gathered in 2006. 578 00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:04,100 Have we? 579 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,920 Uh, well, a very good word from lawyers who've been in touch with the Yard, 580 00:34:09,940 --> 00:34:13,380 saying that you're taking the need to organize the evidence which perhaps 581 00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:14,400 organized quite so well. 582 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,080 Seriously. 583 00:34:17,060 --> 00:34:18,060 All right, fine. 584 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,860 Maybe we have organized the database. 585 00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:22,320 I will give you that. 586 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,060 But in return... 587 00:34:24,650 --> 00:34:28,670 Maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me. We have 588 00:34:28,670 --> 00:34:31,570 nothing to do with News International, and you bloody well know it. 589 00:34:32,270 --> 00:34:34,770 You think I don't know what you're doing? 590 00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:38,810 When I appeared in front of that damn select committee, I could see in the eye 591 00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:42,250 movements of the MPs that you'd briefed all but one of them. 592 00:34:43,670 --> 00:34:44,670 Sorry, eye movements? 593 00:34:45,230 --> 00:34:46,230 Mm -hmm. 594 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:47,730 I'm a clever cop, Mr. Davis. 595 00:34:48,989 --> 00:34:49,989 Right. 596 00:34:51,170 --> 00:34:53,170 Why didn't you pass the... 597 00:34:53,889 --> 00:34:57,790 CPS, the email to Neville Felbeck, which clearly implicated him in the hacking 598 00:34:57,790 --> 00:35:02,390 scandal. Was it because, as the CPS have said, that you could only use a sample 599 00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:04,010 because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise? 600 00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:05,410 No, the CPS were clear. 601 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:11,530 With the regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, it is only a crime if the 602 00:35:11,530 --> 00:35:14,070 intended victim had not already heard the message. 603 00:35:14,290 --> 00:35:17,870 No one interprets Ripper like that except you. All I want to know is the 604 00:35:17,870 --> 00:35:20,790 of it. Can you tell me how many victims of phone hacking you've been able to 605 00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:21,790 identify? Mr. Davis. 606 00:35:22,510 --> 00:35:26,470 The Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you. The Press Complaints 607 00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:27,930 Commission do not agree with you. 608 00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:31,950 And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you. 609 00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:36,630 There's dog -minded, and then there's just dog. 610 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:40,470 This left -wing attack on Murdoch by the guard... If you can't give me a bald 611 00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:42,790 number, just tell me how many victims were in Mulcair's notebooks. 612 00:35:45,090 --> 00:35:49,090 I have never fallen out with a journalist before. 613 00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:54,930 You finally have done so. 614 00:35:55,550 --> 00:35:56,550 Congratulations. 615 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:27,640 I bought you a gift. 616 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,680 It's an I'm not sorry gift. 617 00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:35,340 I'm going to look. 618 00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:41,000 But I'm also, I'm stuck. 619 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:47,440 So, if calling it an I'm not sorry gift is offensive, call it a damn gift. 620 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,080 As in, damn, I'm stuck, please help me. Why are you stuck? 621 00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:52,580 They are, everybody is. 622 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,280 No one is telling me the truth. 623 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,300 And the amazing thing about you, Nick, is each time you find someone lying to 624 00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,800 you, you are utterly amazed, even though you devoted most of your life to 625 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:12,140 uncovering liars. I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart of an 626 00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:13,440 agitated otter. 627 00:37:13,660 --> 00:37:16,120 They are talking of cynicism. 628 00:37:16,540 --> 00:37:19,740 They're now spreading a rumor that I have a love child. 629 00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:21,260 A love child. 630 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,500 They're coming after me, too. 631 00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:28,710 Sheridan's been farming all sorts of calls. 632 00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:32,290 But they're not telling lies about you. Why are they only lies about me? 633 00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:33,348 Don't know. 634 00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:37,690 Because they think attacking me is the easiest way of shutting you up? 635 00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:39,510 Clever, really. 636 00:37:40,210 --> 00:37:41,530 They know I need you. 637 00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:45,450 How curious you choose now to say something so kind. 638 00:37:47,110 --> 00:37:48,110 Oh, God. 639 00:37:49,150 --> 00:37:50,790 I'm your sensual panzer. 640 00:37:52,450 --> 00:37:53,650 I was what I was yours. 641 00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:56,190 I'm sorry. 642 00:37:56,410 --> 00:37:57,410 Making your life difficult. 643 00:37:58,850 --> 00:38:05,350 I don't... I don't take our friendship to mean that... I don't expect 644 00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:09,690 you to print everything I write. You're just doing what you're doing, which is 645 00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:10,690 why you're the best. 646 00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:12,230 That's why I pay you. 647 00:38:12,970 --> 00:38:13,970 Handsomely. 648 00:38:15,150 --> 00:38:18,690 You're just as optimistic as me. Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on 649 00:38:18,690 --> 00:38:24,030 our side. Our so -called industry regulator could say that about us. But 650 00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:25,510 the death of self -regulation. 651 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,500 Me? What do I do? 652 00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:30,460 Can't you call your Mr. Apollo? 653 00:38:31,140 --> 00:38:32,140 He's gone. 654 00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:33,380 Cityward. 655 00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:37,220 You always contacted me, never from the same line twice. 656 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,300 I'll wait for Max Clifford and your day in court. 657 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,100 Max is important. We can't wait. We're in a firefight here. They're going to 658 00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:46,940 keep slinging mud till something sticks. 659 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,300 Then... What about the phone companies? 660 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,000 Sorry? 661 00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:59,200 Yates made that claim in the... select committee, that they'd ask the companies 662 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,800 if there were any other victims of Mulcair at Goodman in order to take 663 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,800 appropriate action. 664 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,499 Yeah, I remember. 665 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:11,180 Well, ask the phone companies to disclose how many victims they 666 00:39:11,180 --> 00:39:12,700 warned of being hacked. 667 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,540 Might get the hack numbers that way. 668 00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:20,680 You're a genius, Lancher. Never call me that again. 669 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,040 Go on. Thank you. 670 00:39:31,020 --> 00:39:32,020 Got booked. 671 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,120 She's not naked. Those pens when you click them, they're naked, but she's 672 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,320 covered in books. It's a joke. Thanks for explaining it to me. 673 00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:44,280 I'll never use it. I'll never ask you to. Thank you. 674 00:39:45,340 --> 00:39:50,420 The commissioner called after you left Yates. He said to me that your coverage 675 00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:53,440 of the hacking scandal was exaggerated and incorrect. 676 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,480 The first time I felt genuine confidence that we're doing absolutely the right 677 00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,480 thing. 678 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,880 Adios. 679 00:40:03,940 --> 00:40:06,880 The select committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, meeting press, 680 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:10,480 politicians, the police, trying to beat Rebecca Brooks. She said no. Though they 681 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,220 succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said... As little as possible. 682 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,520 But they were working it as best they could, and I was working with them as 683 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,760 I could, feeding them occasional questions. 684 00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:22,720 Which we asked in our own way. 685 00:40:23,370 --> 00:40:27,550 Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing in a memo written by Yates 686 00:40:27,550 --> 00:40:32,210 the mobile phone companies had been contacted was a way in. The police 687 00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:36,870 the individual phone companies details of the telephone numbers. 688 00:40:37,870 --> 00:40:43,510 And it was agreed that they would individually research, assess and 689 00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:48,810 whether or not and to what degree their customers had been the subject of 690 00:40:48,810 --> 00:40:50,910 contact by the suspect. 691 00:40:57,550 --> 00:41:01,410 What I'm looking to find out is when the police contacted you, what number of 692 00:41:01,410 --> 00:41:03,590 victims you managed to trace and how many you contacted. 693 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:05,650 Well, yes. 694 00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:10,990 But John Yates was quoted in the select committee as saying you were spoken to, 695 00:41:11,050 --> 00:41:15,830 so... My question is, did you ignore the assistant commissioner of the 696 00:41:15,830 --> 00:41:16,830 Metropolitan Police? 697 00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:19,009 Yeah, sure. 698 00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:20,010 Sure, I'll hold. 699 00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:23,390 Nick, 02, 40 victims. 700 00:41:23,590 --> 00:41:26,650 Now, it's only one. It's only one. When one goes, they all... 701 00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:30,470 Yes, it is. Now, O2 have just confirmed that once they were alerted by the 702 00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:32,870 police, they contacted 40 hacking victims. 703 00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:34,730 I just wondered whether you have a number for us. 704 00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:36,810 Or have you more to hide than them? 705 00:41:38,030 --> 00:41:39,030 Great. 706 00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:40,710 Great. How many? 707 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:46,590 Do you think you knew any better than broadly the same as O2? 708 00:41:46,970 --> 00:41:48,990 Orange have come back with 45 victims. 709 00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:50,590 Do you want to match that number instead? 710 00:41:52,690 --> 00:41:53,690 No? Right. 711 00:41:54,350 --> 00:41:56,730 Okay. Well, thank you very much. 712 00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:58,020 Thank you, bye. 713 00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:03,840 O2, 40 victims. 714 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,940 Vodafone, 40 victims. Orange, 45 victims. 715 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,060 Together with the original eight, that's more than 130 people who had their 716 00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:11,919 phones hacked. 717 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,240 Far more than Yates did. 718 00:42:13,940 --> 00:42:17,320 And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg. 719 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:20,260 Okay. 720 00:42:20,420 --> 00:42:21,420 Let's do it. 721 00:42:26,890 --> 00:42:28,530 This wasn't just Goodman. 722 00:42:29,150 --> 00:42:31,870 This wasn't just the Royals. This was a practice. 723 00:42:32,330 --> 00:42:33,670 This was our foothold. 724 00:42:34,810 --> 00:42:41,190 And yet, even though News International should have been on fire, it once again 725 00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:42,370 barely hit the sides. 726 00:42:44,690 --> 00:42:48,350 And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either. 727 00:42:59,540 --> 00:43:00,540 Good scoop. 728 00:43:01,140 --> 00:43:02,840 The mobile phone company's very good. 729 00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:05,420 Makes me happy to hear you say words like scoop. 730 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,240 Why do I know what you say? 731 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,660 Have you ever said you're next? 732 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,040 I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man. 733 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,580 It doesn't matter. No one's reporting it. 734 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,200 It doesn't matter what it is. We're just getting frozen out. 735 00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:19,180 So try harder. 736 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,520 What? 737 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,400 Try harder. Stop pussyfooting around. 738 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,520 This is pussyfooting. I put my paper on the line. I put myself on the line. 739 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,840 You're not nailing people. You're not asking the right questions. 740 00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:30,060 Oh, you're a journalist now. 741 00:43:31,940 --> 00:43:34,640 Why was your Neville email not passed on? 742 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:40,300 Print the photo on your front page of Assistant Commissioner John Yates and 743 00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:43,080 Rebecca Brooks sitting together at the Police Bravery Awards. 744 00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:44,420 They sat together. 745 00:43:44,660 --> 00:43:46,040 Print what she said in Parliament. 746 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,480 We have paid the police for information. 747 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,500 and say that didn't even go halfway to the truth. There's a murky swamp out 748 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:53,359 there, Nick. 749 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,040 Talk to your police and the media, and that needs reporting. 750 00:43:56,340 --> 00:44:00,400 I'm trying to write about all these things. Unfortunately, it's speculative 751 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,400 libelous. 752 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,360 You need evidence, so do I. 753 00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:07,000 If you want to help, give me something concrete. 754 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:11,760 All right. 755 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:12,920 I've done it. 756 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,820 The case, the Neville email, the hacking. 757 00:44:16,650 --> 00:44:18,570 That case was given to Specialist Operations. 758 00:44:19,630 --> 00:44:22,550 Terrorist branch. The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Heyman. 759 00:44:23,010 --> 00:44:24,010 I know that name. 760 00:44:24,290 --> 00:44:29,310 He disappeared from retirement in a puff of smoke and then reappeared. 761 00:44:29,570 --> 00:44:33,010 Writing articles for the Times. That's why I know the name. Exactly. 762 00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:36,430 The press goes through the police like a stick of rock. 763 00:44:36,990 --> 00:44:38,090 And News International. 764 00:44:38,690 --> 00:44:39,810 Not the worst of them all. 765 00:44:41,290 --> 00:44:42,290 It's still speculative. 766 00:44:43,710 --> 00:44:44,990 Sorry, my friend, I need more. 767 00:45:26,450 --> 00:45:28,310 Charlotte. Hi. Tell me some good news. 768 00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:29,930 It's Max. 769 00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:46,430 Max? 770 00:45:47,490 --> 00:45:49,670 Yeah, he brought in. Max, we've got them on the rack. 771 00:45:50,070 --> 00:45:51,890 You settle the whole thing and get covered up again. 772 00:45:52,170 --> 00:45:53,170 You've got them on the rack? 773 00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:54,328 With what? 774 00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:55,790 What we need, I can't get. 775 00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:58,750 Dan Paul, be the man who made a difference. 776 00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:00,070 Be the man. 777 00:46:00,850 --> 00:46:01,850 Do you listen to yourself? 778 00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:05,750 If it isn't, please, listen to my advice here. Do you just want your piece of 779 00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:07,710 it? Oh, your backwards deal. 780 00:46:07,970 --> 00:46:09,270 I like to think I'm better than that. 781 00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:11,030 No one is better than money. 782 00:46:11,410 --> 00:46:12,410 How much? 783 00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:16,150 Oh, go on. How much? 784 00:46:16,570 --> 00:46:17,570 Fuck off. 785 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,520 The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than a million pounds. 786 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,500 Some to cover his legal costs. Most in the form of guaranteed income for 787 00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:36,780 he would sell them over the next three years. This meant it could be presented 788 00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:38,800 as something other than the payment of damages. 789 00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:40,460 This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut. 790 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,840 This meant it wasn't news. 791 00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:45,020 Nobody was fooled, but it was clever. 792 00:46:46,620 --> 00:46:48,280 Our biggest gun was spiked. 793 00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:54,920 Tonight, history in the making. 794 00:46:55,310 --> 00:46:59,710 as we are joined by the leader of the Liberal Democrat, Nick Clegg, the 795 00:46:59,710 --> 00:47:03,850 Conservative Party leader, David Cameron, and the leader of the Labour 796 00:47:04,050 --> 00:47:05,050 Gordon Brown. 797 00:47:06,670 --> 00:47:10,710 The truth is, power and secrecy walk hand in hand. 798 00:47:12,330 --> 00:47:16,430 Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope. 799 00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:20,670 Power generates secrecy simply because it can. 800 00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:24,090 Downing Street, Scotland Yard. 801 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,460 They're no different to other powerful organizations. 802 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:33,940 They find secrecy easy, natural, and extremely helpful, regardless of whether 803 00:47:33,940 --> 00:47:37,800 not it may cheat the public of information to which they have a 804 00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:41,420 But here's the thing about power and secrecy. 805 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:49,000 If you can expose the secrecy, you might, you might, might break 806 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,720 the power.