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The media requires there be
a new genius every season.

2
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You would be very lucky if,
in your whole life,

3
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,000
you saw the work
of one genius.

4
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But very few people
are great young,

5
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000
great, great, great,
great all along,

6
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but Picasso was.

7
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It was widely reported
that this man owned

8
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what was consistently
referred to in the press,

9
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I'm not sure of the figure,
but a $120 million Picasso.

10
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And he was showing it
to some friends.

11
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And he hit it with his elbow
and tore a hole in it.

12
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And I was very amused by this,
for numerous reasons.

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One is that I kept asking
people, "Which Picasso is this?"

14
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And people kept saying,
"A $120 million Picasso."

15
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And I kept saying,
"But which Picasso?

16
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"I don't know which one
is the 120 million one."

17
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You know.
And also, that changes.

18
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You know,
the price changes,

19
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but the Picasso
remains the same.

20
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And then-- But really,

21
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I was interested in
this story and in this man,

22
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because this man can't see.

23
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And so I thought there is no
more suitable and potent image,

24
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symbol, for our time

25
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than the image
of the blind art collector.

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I think that sums it up.
I mean, you could--

27
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If you were gonna write
just a history of the era,

28
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you should call it The Blind Art
Collector and Other Stories.

29
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It's a plot.
It is a plot. How you been?

30
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Hi. How are you?
Okay.

31
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We asked for your booth,

32
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but we're not sure if
we're in the right one.

33
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Is this your booth?

34
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The audience is going to come in

35
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and it's going to be hard
to get through that lobby.

36
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7:35. We're supposed
to start at 7:30, right?

37
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If I was in the audience
I'd be saying--

38
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Happy about it?
Really optimistic?

39
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Did I strike you
as unhappy?

40
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Because this is me
at my most buoyant.

41
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I was going to say,
"With all due respect."

42
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This is me
at my most buoyant.

43
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Writers have
to know things.

44
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You know, they have to know
things about life.

45
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You know,
musicians don't.

46
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That's why there's
musical prodigies.

47
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You know,
there was Mozart.

48
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There's no equivalent
to Mozart in writing.

49
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Because even if you were
that innately talented,

50
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,000
you would still
have to know something

51
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,000
to write it down,
you know.

52
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,000
And so in fields in which
you have to know something,

53
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there are no child prodigies.

54
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Hence, the child actor,

55
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a field where you actually
are not well served

56
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by knowing anything.

57
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You may or may not learn
more things about writing.

58
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Some people don't.
Some people are fully formed

59
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with their first book.

60
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With Philip Roth,
you see that.

61
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You know, they have that voice
right away.

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Some people specialize
in youthful things in writing.

63
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And then, of course,
they get worse.

64
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If you're gonna specialize
in youth, you know,

65
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you're gonna get worse.

66
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I like doing this

67
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because it's what I've always
wanted my entire life.

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People asking me
my opinion.

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And also in this situation,

70
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people are not allowed
to interrupt.

71
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So it's not
a conversation.

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That's what
I like about it.

73
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,000
You seem to me
almost always right.

74
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,000
What do you mean "seem"?
And almost--

75
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But also, ahem,
never fair.

76
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That's why.

77
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I'm always right
because I'm never fair.

78
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I never thought about it,
but I have to concede

79
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that I have way too frequently
for my own moral comfort

80
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,000
been asked
if I was an only child.

81
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Which means obviously
people feel

82
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I have the personality
of an only child.

83
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Which I guess I do.

84
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I actually wanted
to be a cellist

85
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when I was a small child.

86
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I loved Pablo Casals.
I had Pablo Casals records.

87
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But I was
remarkably untalented.

88
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And when I realized
I wasn't gonna be as good

89
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as Pablo Casals,
which was, like,

90
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in the first four minutes of
listening to the first record,

91
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I realized I didn't
want to be a cellist.

92
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I had excessive standards.

93
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But I was the worst cellist
in my school orchestra.

94
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I don't mean I wasn't
just marginally not as good

95
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000
as Pablo Casals.
I mean that in a school--

96
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A little grammar-school
orchestra with five cellos,

97
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I was fifth cellist.

98
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And it was not
an unfair assessment.

99
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It was a fair assessment.

100
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,000
In my neighborhood,
and I think all girls--

101
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You had to do certain
physical things,

102
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you know, like climb trees,
things like that.

103
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All those type of things
I was always very afraid of,

104
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,000
terrified of.

105
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And I believe
that this is at the point

106
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at which I, like, thought,
"If I say something funny,

107
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"they won't notice I'm only on
the first branch of the tree,

108
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"not the fiftieth branch
of the tree,

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where I have, like,
no intention of going to."

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Because even as a child,

111
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it really struck me
as an idiotic exercise

112
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to put yourself in danger
for no reason.

113
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In other words,
all right, if--

114
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Like, climbing a tree to me
makes sense

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00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,000
if behind you
are Nazis.

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Okay? Right.
I would-- You know--

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Being in the tree
is a smart thing to do

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if on the ground
are the Nazis.

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If on the ground
are the other kids

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seeing how high
you can go up,

121
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even at that age, it seemed
to me like, "Oh. No."

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00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,000
I was at least 9, if not older,
when I learned to tell time.

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It was the central disaster
of my childhood.

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My parents sent me to my aunt
and uncle's house

125
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for my winter vacation

126
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with the idea that since
my uncle was an engineer at IBM,

127
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that he would be able
to teach me how to tell time.

128
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I mean, I suppose
there was the idea

129
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that this kid
was so challenged--

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Not a word they used then,
--at learning how to tell time

131
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that it required
the expertise

132
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of an MIT graduate
who was an IBM engineer.

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That's the level of person
they felt I needed

134
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,000
to teach me
how to tell time.

135
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And it was just like
the continuation, really,

136
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,000
of my own experience at home,

137
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which was that
everything was a clock.

138
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,000
Like, in other words,
you know--

139
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,000
Did they try to help that way?

140
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,000
Yes. "Here's an oatmeal cookie.

141
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,000
Now, see, if this raisin was 12
and this raisin was 3..."

142
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And I would like...

143
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Just eventually it
came to me,

144
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000
although not fully,
because, even now,

145
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by which I mean
my entire life,

146
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I see that other people,
if you ask them what time it is,

147
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they look at their watch
and they tell you.

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This is something I've always
envied because I have to like--

149
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Then I tell you. Okay?

150
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,000
It lacks Ă©lan,

151
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,000
my telling you
what time it is,

152
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000
because you can
see me concentrating.

153
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Like I have to--
It's like whatever--

154
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It's the time-telling
equivalent

155
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,000
of moving your lips
while you read.

156
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That's how I tell time.

157
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Then at some certain
point in life, you know,

158
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which I think was in the '70s,
they invented digital clocks,

159
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you know, which I resisted
tremendously,

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purely out of envy.

161
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Like, "Oh, if they'd had this
when I was a child,

162
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I would have learned
how to tell time."

163
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And so since I didn't have it,
I don't like it.

164
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You know,
the same reaction

165
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that men of my father's
generation had,

166
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like, during
the sexual revolution.

167
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,000
Like, "Oh, no, you don't.
We never got that.

168
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,000
You're not getting it."

169
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000
I felt the exact same way
about digital clocks, you know.

170
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I was a very, very bad
high school student. Terrible.

171
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The worst you could be.

172
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Let me put it to you
this way:

173
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I was expelled
from my school.

174
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So you can't be a worse
high school student than that.

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Did you read...?

176
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Constantly.

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I mean,
that's one of the reasons

178
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000
I got expelled
from high school.

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Because I would
be always reading

180
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behind my actual
textbooks.

181
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And I was constantly punished
for reading as a child,

182
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,000
even as a young child.
Reading what?

183
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Anything, instead of doing
my homework.

184
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Like, my mother
would knock on my door,

185
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,000
"I know you're
reading in there."

186
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,000
You know. I had-- My desk
in my room when I was a child,

187
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,000
you know, had a drawer,
like in the middle,

188
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,000
and my books
would be on top,

189
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,000
and I would open the drawer
and put a real book,

190
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,000
by which I mean one I wanted to
read, as opposed to a math book.

191
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And when my mother
came in the room,

192
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I would, like,
close it like that.

193
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000
And I want you-- This was not
The Story of O, you know.

194
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,000
This would be, you know,

195
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,000
just a novel, just something
that wasn't my schoolwork.

196
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There are days,

197
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,000
this is one of them,

198
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,000
when you wonder

199
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,000
what your role is
in this country

200
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,000
and what your future is
in it.

201
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,000
How precisely you're going
to reconcile yourself

202
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,000
to your situation here

203
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,000
and how you are going
to communicate

204
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,000
to the vast, heedless,

205
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,000
unthinking, cruel
white majority

206
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,000
that you are here.

207
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,000
I mean, I remember

208
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,000
the first time I saw
James Baldwin, you know,

209
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000
on The David Susskind Show
when I was kid,

210
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,000
I never heard
anyone talk like that.

211
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,000
You know, I always said,
"I'm the only Jew in America

212
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,000
"whose first exposure
to an intellectual,

213
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,000
it was a black guy."

214
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,000
You know? I mean,
I didn't know

215
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000
was there such a thing
as Jewish intellectuals,

216
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,000
I did not grow up
among them.

217
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000
So my idea of an intellectual
was James Baldwin.

218
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,000
I never heard anyone
talk like that in my life.

219
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000
I was, like, completely
mesmerized by him.

220
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,000
I obviously love to talk,

221
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,000
so I never thought about
being good or bad at it.

222
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,000
I mean, talking, to me,
is like having a trick thumb.

223
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,000
Only when people started
remarking on it did I realize

224
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,000
that people thought of it
as anything special.

225
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,000
You know, I never really
thought-- I was never--

226
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,000
And that's partially because

227
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,000
I was never complimented on it
as a child.

228
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,000
I mean, in fact,
the opposite.

229
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,000
When I was a child
it was called talking back.

230
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,000
Okay?

231
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000
You know, now it's called
public speaking.

232
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000
You know,
but it's really the same.

233
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,000
So the thing that I used
to get punished for

234
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000
at home and in school and get
bad marks in school for it

235
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000
then, you know, at a certain
point in my life I got,

236
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000
actually, I don't know, paid,
you know, and rewarded for it.

237
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,000
But it's the exact
same thing.

238
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,000
Do you think
there's a difference

239
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,000
between a female voice
and a male voice in literature?

240
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000
Even on the phone
there's a difference

241
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,000
between a female
voice and a male voice.

242
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,000
I think
it's very important

243
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000
that writers write
in a real voice.

244
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,000
In their own voice.

245
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,000
But only if they're
really good writers.

246
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,000
And I have noticed,

247
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,000
and surely even someone of your
tender years have noticed,

248
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,000
that too many people are
writing books, period. Okay?

249
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000
There are too many books.
The books are terrible.

250
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000
And this is because you have
been taught to have self-esteem.

251
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000
And apparently, you have
so much self-esteem

252
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000
that you think,
"You know what?

253
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,000
I shouldn't keep these
thoughts to myself."

254
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,000
I should share them
with the world."

255
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,000
When I first came
to New York,

256
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,000
I fell in with a group
of incredible talkers.

257
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,000
You know, I mean,
incredible talkers.

258
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000
And I thought my whole life
would be like that.

259
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,000
There are certain things that
happen to you when you're young,

260
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,000
the thing you always would
imagine would happen,

261
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000
and then you find out
it was like a fluke.

262
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,000
You know, of course
it disappeared.

263
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000
But I fell in right away

264
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,000
with this bunch
of incredible talkers.

265
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,000
They were all guys.
They were all gay.

266
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000
They were much older than me,

267
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000
by which I mean a minimum
of 10 years.

268
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,000
And I was 18 when
I came to New York.

269
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,000
And it was a kind of--

270
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,000
I mean, it wasn't really
competitive, you know,

271
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,000
but it was nasty, let me tell
you. That's the other thing.

272
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,000
Once I met these guys,
when I was, like,

273
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,000
literally, like, off the bus
from Port Authority,

274
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,000
these are the first people
I meet.

275
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000
After that I suppose
nothing could faze me.

276
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000
What I did when I first came
to New York, I drove a cab.

277
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000
I did things like that,
you know,

278
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,000
but just exactly enough
to pay the rent,

279
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
and then I stopped working.

280
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,000
As soon as I had
that $121 for the month

281
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,000
I wouldn't drive
the cab anymore, you know,

282
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,000
because I wanted to hang out.

283
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,000
You know,
I wanted to do nothing.

284
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,000
It's very important,
I think,

285
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,000
for getting ideas
or thinking of new things

286
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000
that comes from, like, hanging
around with other people.

287
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,000
You know, talking.
You know, that life.

288
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,000
You know, sitting in bars
smoking cigarettes.

289
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,000
You know, I mean,
that's the history of art.

290
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,000
New York was not better
because there was more crime.

291
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,000
It was better
because it was cheaper.

292
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,000
And I mean
relatively cheaper.

293
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000
When a place
is too expensive,

294
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,000
only people with lots of money
can live there.

295
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,000
That's the problem.
Okay?

296
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,000
You can like people with lots
of money for certain reasons,

297
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000
hate them for certain reasons,
but you cannot say

298
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,000
that an entire city with lots of
money is fascinating. It is not.

299
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000
All these things,
in my opinion, seem to occur

300
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,000
when they decided to get
the city out of bankruptcy

301
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000
by making it into
a tourist attraction,

302
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,000
which everyone thinks was
the smartest thing ever done.

303
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,000
In other words,
in the '70s,

304
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000
when the city was
going bankrupt,

305
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000
three guys got together
and said, "What can we do?

306
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,000
"The city's going bankrupt.

307
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,000
"Well, no one here, you know,
can think of anything.

308
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,000
"We'll just have to bring
a lot of people here

309
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000
"to come and look at it.

310
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,000
And, you know, that will be
the way that we cure it."

311
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,000
And it apparently did.
You know.

312
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,000
Ahem, it was an incredibly
horrible idea.

313
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,000
And even at the time
I thought it was.

314
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,000
I thought, "This is New York
City." You know.

315
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,000
"We don't need this kind
of, you know,

316
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000
Sinclair Lewis
boosterism here."

317
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,000
You know. "You don't want
to come here? Don't.

318
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,000
Good, don't come here."

319
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000
Ahem, it was a very bad thing,

320
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000
because it made it seem like,
you know,

321
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,000
New York had no resources.

322
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,000
You know, by which
I mean human resources.

323
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000
It's not like New York
was a boring place. No.

324
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000
You cannot lure
these herds of hillbillies

325
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000
into the middle of a city

326
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000
and not have it affect
the city. It's not possible.

327
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000
You know.
And sometimes-- And I'm like,

328
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,000
trying to, well, I would say,
walking behind them,

329
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,000
trying to get past them,
you know.

330
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000
And I hear them say
they don't like something.

331
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,000
"Oh, yes, we went there,
you know."

332
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000
"Oh, you mean that diner
that has the waiters who sing?"

333
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,000
"Yes."
"Did you like it?"

334
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000
"No, they were singing
too loud."

335
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000
And I sometimes
feel like saying,

336
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000
"Really? You don't like it?

337
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000
Tell us, because we built
it for you."

338
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000
"So if you don't

339
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000
"like the diner
with the waiters singing,

340
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
we're happy
to close it down."

341
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,000
Like, what would we do
with Times Square

342
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000
if there's no tourists?

343
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,000
You know, a place
that we built for them.

344
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,000
I mean, it used to be
just a neighborhood.

345
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000
Okay, it's a place
that we built for them.

346
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
I live near Times Square.

347
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,000
So I want to tell you
something.

348
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000
Here's something we could
use in this neighborhood:

349
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,000
A butcher.

350
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000
A shoe repair. A stationery
store. A bookstore.

351
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000
You could fill it
with things New Yorkers need.

352
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,000
Times Square now,
in the last many years,

353
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000
here's what it's like
in Times Square.

354
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
If you're a New Yorker

355
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000
and you run into another
New Yorker in Times Square,

356
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,000
it's like running into someone
in a gay bar in the '70s.

357
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,000
You--

358
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,000
You instantly start making
excuses as to why you're there.

359
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,000
"I'm not really here..."

360
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000
"I'm not really in--
I'm not really in Times Square.

361
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,000
"I'm on my way to some other--
I'm doing research."

362
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,000
The reason that people
used to move to cities--

363
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,000
One of the reasons, in fact,
that I moved to the city.

364
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000
--is that if you grow up
in a small town,

365
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,000
it's incredibly oppressive.

366
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,000
You know,
it's very oppressive

367
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000
to have people know
every single thing about you.

368
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,000
You know, the nosy neighbor
is not an urban figure.

369
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000
You know,

370
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,000
the nosy neighbor
is a small-town figure.

371
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000
And everybody knows
everything about everybody

372
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
and it's very suffocating.

373
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000
And so that people used
to move to cities

374
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000
so they could
do what they wanted.

375
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000
Even if what they wanted to do
was just walk down the street

376
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,000
without someone calling up
and saying,

377
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,000
"I saw Joe
walking down the street."

378
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000
But if you want to do
something, like--

379
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,000
Other than that,
you had to live in a city.

380
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,000
And now, people don't--
I mean--

381
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,000
Anonymity is the worst thing
that people can have, I think,

382
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,000
because there's such
a general desire for fame.

383
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000
You're a star, baby.
Let me see that star quality.

384
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Within the last 25, 30 years,

385
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,000
fame itself became an extremely
valuable thing to people,

386
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000
divorced from
anything else.

387
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000
And that is basically
the fault of Andy Warhol.

388
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,000
I mean,
one of the things Andy did

389
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,000
was he made fame
more famous.

390
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,000
Because Andy kept, like, using
the word "fame" all the time.

391
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,000
It was a joke.

392
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,000
Let me assure you,
this was a joke.

393
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,000
You take these drag queens,
who are actually criminals,

394
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,000
because it was against the law
to wear a dress

395
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000
if you're a man at the time.
And you say, this drag queen--

396
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000
Of course they want to be
a movie star.

397
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,000
They want to be
an exact movie star.

398
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,000
In other words, you know,
Candy Darling, you know,

399
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,000
wants to be exactly, you know,
Marilyn Monroe. Okay?

400
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000
This is a drag queen fantasy
at the time.

401
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
No one takes it seriously,
except Candy does.

402
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000
And then Andy says,
"You're not just a movie star,

403
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000
like Marilyn Monroe,
you're a superstar."

404
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,000
He makes it up.
It's a joke. It's a joke.

405
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,000
This is what
ruined the world.

406
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,000
This is what happens
when an inside joke

407
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
gets into the water supply.

408
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
I'm Fran Lebowitz. I started
writing for Interview,

409
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000
I think, in 1970.

410
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,000
And the first time
that I met Andy at the Factory,

411
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,000
when I went to apply
for this position,

412
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,000
the door of
the elevator opened

413
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000
and there was a metal door
behind it

414
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,000
that had a sign taped to it
saying,

415
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000
"Knock loudly
and announce yourself."

416
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,000
Being 20,
and this being my day of humor,

417
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000
I knocked on the door,
and someone said, "Who is it?"

418
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000
I said, "Valerie Solanas,"
Andy opened the door.

419
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000
When I was young,
in the late '70s early '80s,

420
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000
my first real audience
was from Interview Magazine,

421
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,000
and at that time that audience
was 99.9, you know, homosexual.

422
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Male homosexual.

423
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
And that audience
was very important to me.

424
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000
This was part
of what formed my voice.

425
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000
Everyone talks about
the effect that AIDS had

426
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000
on the culture
in the sense--

427
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000
I mean, people don't talk
about it anymore,

428
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000
but when people
did talk about it,

429
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,000
they talked about
like what artists were lost.

430
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,000
But they never talked about
this audience that was lost.

431
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000
You know, when people talk
about, like, you know,

432
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000
"Why was New York City Ballet
so great?"

433
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000
Well, I mean it was because
of Balanchine and Jerry Robbins

434
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,000
and people like that, but also,
that audience was so--

435
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,000
I can't even think
of the word. I mean,

436
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,000
"Suzanne Farrell went like this
instead of this."

437
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,000
That was it. She might as well
just kill herself.

438
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,000
There would be like a billion
people who knew exactly

439
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,000
every single thing,
you know.

440
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000
There was such a high level

441
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
of connoisseurship
of everything,

442
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000
that people like this
were interested in,

443
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,000
you know, of everything,
that made the culture better.

444
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
You can-- You know,
a very discerning audience.

445
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000
A very-- You know--

446
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,000
An audience with a high level
of connoisseurship

447
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,000
is as important
to the culture as artists.

448
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,000
It's exactly as important.

449
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,000
Now we don't have
any kind of discernment.

450
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,000
When that audience died,

451
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000
and that audience died
in 5 minutes.

452
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
Literally, people didn't
die faster in a war.

453
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
And it allowed,
of course, like,

454
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,000
the third, the second
third, fourth tier

455
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,000
to rise to the front.

456
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,000
Because, of course, the first
people who died of AIDS

457
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
were the people who,
I don't know how to put this,

458
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000
got laid a lot.

459
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000
Okay, now imagine
who didn't get AIDS, okay?

460
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,000
That's who was then lauded
as the great, you know, artist.

461
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,000
Okay?

462
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
You know, if the other people
that hadn't died had been alive,

463
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,000
if they all came back to life,
I would say to them,

464
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,000
"Guess who's a big star?

465
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000
"Guess who has a show
on Broadway?

466
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Guess who is, like,
a famous photographer?"

467
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,000
They would fall on the floor.
Are you kidding me?

468
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,000
Because everyone else died.

469
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Last man standing, okay?
I mean, that had a--

470
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,000
The loss of that audience
had a terrible effect,

471
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000
and a terrible effect
on me,

472
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
I mean, by which not
just a sad,

473
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000
personal effect on me,

474
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,000
but a terrible
effect on me

475
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,000
because everything
has to be broader.

476
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,000
I mean, I don't do that,
you know,

477
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,000
but everyone
else did, you know.

478
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,000
Everything has to be more
blatant, more on the nose.

479
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,000
Broader, you know,
because obviously

480
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000
they're not going to be pick up
little subtleties.

481
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,000
Things in the culture
that had nothing to do

482
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,000
with the New York City Ballet,

483
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
you know, it just got
dumbed down, dumbed down,

484
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,000
dumbed down,
all the way down.

485
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,000
One of the reasons we wanted
to come here

486
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,000
was to show the country
The Oscar Levant Show.

487
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,000
And--
Pretty degrading, isn't it?

488
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,000
No, it is not.

489
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,000
It's probably the most brilliant
wit ever on television.

490
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000
You know, you must
understand about wit.

491
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,000
Wit's very infrequent.
You mention so-called wits

492
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
and they've said two or three
things in their whole lifetime.

493
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000
Almost. It's true. Now humorous
is something else.

494
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,000
You know, that cracker-barrel,
"Aw, shucks,"

495
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000
Charlie Weaver stuff, who gets
off-color every now and then,

496
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000
that's-- He's really
very funny.

497
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000
I don't dig my toe in.

498
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
I'm not a cracker-barrel
philosopher.

499
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000
The humorist is just
a comedian that scratches.

500
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,000
Isn't that more or less
what happens?

501
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,000
No, a humorist is somebody
like you who has four writers

502
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000
and then adlibs for the rest
of the-- No, that's--

503
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000
It's hard being his friend,
I'll tell you that.

504
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,000
See what we have had
in the last like 30 years

505
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,000
is too much democracy
in the culture,

506
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
not enough democracy
in the society.

507
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,000
There's no reason to have
democracy in the culture. None.

508
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,000
Because the culture
should be made

509
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,000
by a natural aristocracy
of talent.

510
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Okay? I mean--
By which I mean, like,

511
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000
here it doesn't have to do with,
you know, what race you are

512
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000
or what country you're from
or what religion you are.

513
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,000
It should have to do with
how good are you at this thing?

514
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,000
And that is
a natural aristocracy.

515
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,000
"No, your book is not as good as
anyone else's book," you know.

516
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
"No, your life story would
not make a good book.

517
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,000
Don't even try."

518
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000
I had to introduce
Toni Morrison, or something,

519
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000
and give her an award--
She has not received enough.

520
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000
And since everyone was
gathered to see Toni

521
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,000
get her 8 millionth award,
I said, "Since you're--

522
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,000
"Now that I have you all here,
I just wanna say one thing.

523
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,000
"When Toni Morrison said, 'Write
the book you want to read,'

524
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
she did not mean everyone,
okay?"

525
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,000
When I read things
you've written,

526
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
there's something
in there that is--

527
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,000
I can distinguish by sound,
not by definition,

528
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,000
which is the difference
between wit and the comic,

529
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,000
or the humorous in writers.

530
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000
What do you think
that difference is?

531
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000
Niceness.

532
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Niceness?

533
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000
I mean, or, what people call,
like, you know, warmth.

534
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000
Wit.

535
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,000
No, comedy.

536
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Ah, oh, I see.
I see, I see.

537
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Like, we have
a lot of comedians,

538
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,000
because people
like comedians.

539
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000
People like comedians
because comedians

540
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,000
usually make fun
of someone

541
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
other than the person
they're talking to.

542
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,000
You know, or if they directly
make fun of that person,

543
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,000
it's in a very insulting,
vulgar way.

544
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,000
But in writing,
wit is something-- It's cold.

545
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
It has to be cold.
You know.

546
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Wit is judgment.

547
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000
Oscar Wilde-type coldness.

548
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,000
Yeah. People always say
"Oscar Wilde-type"

549
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,000
like there's a lot of other
people like Oscar Wilde.

550
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000
There's only one.

551
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,000
It's true, it's true.

552
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Yeah. I mean--
And it's also usually short.

553
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Mm-hm.
You know.

554
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,000
It usually can't be dragged out
to the length of a feature film.

555
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,000
And also, it has
a lot of assumption to it,

556
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
which is not a thing
Americans like.

557
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,000
They don't want you
to assume, presume, or judge.

558
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000
That's elite.

559
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000
I don't remember
what your question was.

560
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Yes, you do.

561
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
No, you've explained it
entirely correctly.

562
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Good.

563
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
I adore you.

564
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,000
I'm now 47,
but I'm not kidding you,

565
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000
you rescued me at 15
in Albany, New York,

566
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
when Metropolitan Life
came out.

567
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000
I used to be 47.

568
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Last year.

569
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Just last month.
Yeah.

570
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Oh, that one's done.

571
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Yeah, this one
I got done in '93.

572
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,000
Well, then, keep that.
It's a younger signature.

573
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,000
Yeah. Yeah.
So very nice to see you again.

574
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000
Nice to see you. Thank you.
Okay.

575
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,000
When my first book came out,
I was 27.

576
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,000
There were no people my age
who had books out.

577
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,000
That is a generational thing,
because people my age,

578
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,000
they didn't want
to be writers.

579
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,000
People my age wanted
to be musicians or filmmakers.

580
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,000
So all the people
I knew who wanted to be--

581
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000
Who were artists.
That was the thing.

582
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000
So I had, like,
no contemporaries, you know.

583
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,000
And it looked like
it was dying out.

584
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,000
That's why people
should stop saying,

585
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000
"This is the end of that."
You don't know.

586
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000
"This is the end of that.
This is it."

587
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000
When my first book was
published, the publisher said,

588
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,000
"I don't know. This book isn't
gonna sell, because it's--

589
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,000
Not since the 1920s has a book
of comic essays sold."

590
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,000
And even though I was a kid,
I said, "So what?"

591
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,000
And really, I would
say that now. So what? You know?

592
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,000
Then here's what happens.
One comes out and sells,

593
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,000
there's a million of them.

594
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Who was trying to buy
your book back then?

595
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Everybody.
Everybody?

596
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Everybody.
Who'd you meet with?

597
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,000
Everybody.
I met with everybody.

598
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000
Everyone tried to buy the book.
I met with everybody.

599
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,000
I didn't sell
the book because I--

600
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,000
I didn't-- Didn't want them
to ruin my book,

601
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,000
which was a book of essays.

602
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000
So I knew that it would
be ruined. I mean, it isn't--

603
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000
You know, I mean--
And--

604
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,000
The more I said no, which was
taken, of course, as a tactic,

605
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,000
the higher the price went.

606
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,000
Until I actually had,
well, more than one meeting,

607
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,000
but one meeting I remember,

608
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,000
and I think it might have
been Warner Bros.,

609
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,000
because Warner Bros.
might have had, like,

610
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,000
a real office here
in the '70s, late '70s.

611
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,000
They did, they did.

612
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000
And I remember sitting at,
like, a huge conference table,

613
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000
where finally, someone who was
head of the New York office

614
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
said, "All right, well,
I suppose you want to direct."

615
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,000
That-- And I was so stunned
by that idea because...

616
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
That's when I realized that they
really didn't believe me.

617
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,000
I said, "No, I don't even want
you to make this into a movie.

618
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
"Not only do I not want
to direct this movie,

619
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,000
I don't want this
to be a movie."

620
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
And many movie stars
tried to buy it.

621
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Women tried to buy it
for themselves.

622
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,000
You know, and considering,
I'm not gonna go into names,

623
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,000
but who was a movie star
at the time,

624
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,000
this would be enough to repel
even the most greedy amongst us.

625
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
I had every single meeting
including one

626
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000
where someone who wanted to make
a musical out of it

627
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,000
and jumped up on the table
in the middle of the meeting

628
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,000
to show me how it could
be a musical.

629
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,000
And this went on for a very long
time because of the saying no.

630
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Yeah.

631
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
You know, this was unheard of,
you know,

632
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,000
and no one believed me,
including my agent.

633
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,000
You know, no one believed me
and everyone kept telling me,

634
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,000
you know, "That's really good
you said no because now--"

635
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,000
"Now we could really get more."

636
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Right. And even some of the
amounts of money I was offered

637
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,000
would be really great now.
Yeah.

638
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,000
I mean, that's how much money
I was offered.

639
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,000
And the same thing
when the second book came out.

640
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Another round
of it started.

641
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Now, if I had known
that was it,

642
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
that would have been
the point to--

643
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
But I didn't realize that.

644
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000
But it was worth it
for the meetings.

645
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
I'll always have
these meetings.

646
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,000
The next morning, I was awakened
by a telephone call

647
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000
from said agent informing me
that she had just

648
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,000
received and rejected
the offer of a sum

649
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,000
in six figures for the movie
rights to my unwritten book.

650
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,000
"I think we can get more,"
she said.

651
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,000
"I'll talk to you later."

652
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,000
I mulled this over and called
her back. "Look," I said,

653
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000
last year I earned $4,000
for the things that I wrote."

654
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,000
"This year, I've been offered
two sums in six figures,

655
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
"this amount included the book
rights to my unwritten book,

656
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,000
"for the things
that I have not written.

657
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000
"Obviously, I've been
going about this whole business

658
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,000
in the wrong way."

659
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,000
"Not writing,
it turns out,

660
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,000
"is not only fun, but also,
it would appear,

661
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
"enormously profitable.

662
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
"Call the movie guy
and tell him

663
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,000
that I have several
unwritten books."

664
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,000
You've been on the road

665
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,000
with your hit book,
Social Studies,

666
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,000
It's number 11 on The New York
Times bestseller list.

667
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
What's it been like
out there in America?

668
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,000
The exact opposite of here.
What?

669
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,000
I love it out there
in America.

670
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,000
What particularly
do you like about it?

671
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,000
The way they buy books.

672
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,000
They are buying your book,
aren't they?

673
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
Yes, they are.
And I thank them for it.

674
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Do you think
that they know

675
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,000
what you're really
writing about?

676
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,000
I hope not.

677
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000
I understand
that some people

678
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,000
seem to think
it's a self-help book.

679
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,000
It is.
It's helping myself.

680
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
I'm familiar with education

681
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
and art
as sort of marginal.

682
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000
And is this some kind
of peculiarly American

683
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000
kind of anti-intellectualism,
you think?

684
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Well, I don't know

685
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,000
how they think about it
all over the world,

686
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000
but certainly in America--

687
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000
I mean, America has always
hated, you know,

688
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
eggheads, or whatever,
you know.

689
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,000
I mean, when they invent
the term "elite,"

690
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,000
they don't mean rich.

691
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,000
America loves rich people.
They mean smart.

692
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,000
I mean, "We don't want
these elites in here.

693
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
We don't want any of you
smart people in here."

694
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Do you think some people
are born lucky?

695
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,000
That is the biggest
piece of luck in life.

696
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Yeah.
No one wants to admit that,

697
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
in this country especially,

698
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,000
because it agitates against
the very notion of America.

699
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,000
But, I mean, that's the idea
of democracy,

700
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000
is to minimize
that first second of luck.

701
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000
When you draw your first breath,
you know,

702
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,000
if babies had that type
of consciousness,

703
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,000
they would look around and most
babies would think, "Mm, no."

704
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,000
"Now this isn't what I meant.

705
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000
This isn't what
I had in mind."

706
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,000
Gender.
Gender.

707
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Gender.
Very big piece of luck.

708
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Here's what a big piece
of luck it is.

709
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
Any white,
gentile straight man

710
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000
who is not president
of the United States failed.

711
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Okay?

712
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
That's what a big piece of luck
that is. Okay?

713
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,000
So, what do you think

714
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
are the innate differences
between men and women?

715
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Testosterone.
Testosterone is not learned.

716
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Okay? If it could be learned,

717
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,000
we would be studying,
because it works.

718
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:22,000
So testosterone is actually
some sort of chemical

719
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
that is in the human body.

720
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
And testosterone gives people,
men, who have it,

721
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,000
an advantage, because it is
what makes men aggressive.

722
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Women having babies
is really a disadvantage.

723
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
It is a disadvantage
to women.

724
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Even though women now
seek to have babies,

725
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000
or in fact do extraordinary
things to their bodies

726
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,000
in order to have babies
at the age of 40, 50, whatever.

727
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000
It does kind of put you out
of commission in lots of ways.

728
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Which is that once
a woman has a baby,

729
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,000
she seems to be
so interested in it.

730
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,000
I mean, a woman in a room
with her baby

731
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,000
is looking at that baby.
Okay?

732
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000
Is that who you want
for your lawyer?

733
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Okay? Men now go around
with their babies.

734
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,000
I see them all the time
with their babies.

735
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000
They're always talking
about their babies,

736
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,000
but they're not
really looking at them.

737
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,000
If they were your lawyer,
they'd still be your lawyer.

738
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,000
Because they're really not
that interested in the baby.

739
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000
They just have to do that now,
it's like, you know, the style.

740
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000
So it is very
hampering to women,

741
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,000
the fact
that they have babies

742
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,000
or that they want
to have babies.

743
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
You know, that is very
hampering to women.

744
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,000
It is very helpful to men
that they have testosterone.

745
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,000
You know, men don't want
women to have power

746
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,000
because they already have it.

747
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000
People don't want other people
to have what they have.

748
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,000
When I was growing up,

749
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,000
I was taught
in American history books

750
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,000
that Africa had no history,

751
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,000
and neither did I.

752
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,000
That I was a savage

753
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,000
about whom
the less said the better,

754
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,000
who had been
saved by Europe

755
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,000
and brought to America.

756
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,000
And, of course,
I believed it.

757
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,000
I didn't have much choice.

758
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Those were the only books
there were.

759
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Everyone else
seemed to agree.

760
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,000
If you walk out of Harlem,
ride out of Harlem downtown,

761
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,000
the world agrees,

762
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,000
what you see is much bigger,

763
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,000
cleaner, whiter,
richer, safer.

764
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,000
And it would seem then,
of course,

765
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,000
that it's an act of God.

766
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
That this is true.

767
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
That you belong

768
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,000
where white people
have put you.

769
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,000
It seems to me
that of all the indictments

770
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Mr. Baldwin has made
of America

771
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,000
here tonight

772
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,000
and in his copious literature
of protest,

773
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,000
The Fire Next Time,

774
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
in which he threatens America,

775
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000
he didn't,
in writing that book,

776
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,000
speak with
the British accent

777
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,000
that he used
exclusively tonight.

778
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,000
In which he threatened
America with the necessity...

779
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,000
...for us to jettison...

780
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,000
...for us to jettison
our entire civilization.

781
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000
The only thing that
the white man has

782
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,000
that the Negro should want,
he said, is power.

783
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,000
You wrote a fantastic piece

784
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,000
in Vanity Fair on race.

785
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,000
And I just really want
to know how you felt

786
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000
about the public discourse

787
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,000
about race
in this last election.

788
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
You know, I mean,
Obama's speech about race,

789
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,000
I thought, was great.

790
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,000
I thought that-- I mean,
it seemed astonishing to me

791
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,000
that no one made
such a speech before.

792
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Yeah, it was.
I mean,

793
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,000
here is the problem
of being ahead of your time.

794
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,000
By the time everyone
gets around to it, you're bored.

795
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,000
So you know?

796
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,000
I think that--

797
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,000
I think that people are
afraid to talk about it,

798
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000
because they feel they don't
want to offend people,

799
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
or their usual way of talking
about it is, in fact, offensive,

800
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,000
and they're trying to think what
would be the non-offensive way?

801
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
I think that that's probably
true a great deal of the time.

802
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,000
You know,
I think it's very important

803
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
that there be
a black president,

804
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000
mostly so that
we got it over with.

805
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,000
So that, you know, this--
Uh-huh.

806
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,000
This is something that
should be in our past.

807
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,000
This shouldn't be in
our present. This is absurd.

808
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,000
It's an absurd way
to categorize people.

809
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,000
It is. I mean, in that piece
that you talked about,

810
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Erroll, my editor,

811
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000
interviewed me about that.
He asked me,

812
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,000
did I think racism would end?
Yes. Uh-huh.

813
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,000
You know, could it end?

814
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,000
And I said no,
I didn't think it would end.

815
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,000
You know.
But I think it could end.

816
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000
It's possible for it to end,
because it's a fantasy.

817
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,000
Fantasy.

818
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,000
Racism is a fantasy
of superiority.

819
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,000
A fantasy can end,
you know.

820
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,000
It probably won't.
But it can.

821
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Whereas, you know,

822
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,000
inequality of women
would never end,

823
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000
because it's biological.
It's a reality. You know.

824
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Men are really
different from women.

825
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,000
There is really a difference
between men and women.

826
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
There is not really
a difference

827
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
between people
of different races.

828
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,000
You know, not-- I mean,
the difference is skin-deep.

829
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Mm-hm.
You know.

830
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,000
So that racism can end.
I don't think it will end.

831
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,000
I don't the election of Barack
Obama shows that it ended.

832
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,000
I just think it showed
that it's not as bad as it was.

833
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,000
You know. Which is really
the most we can hope for.

834
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,000
I think that we're
astonished

835
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,000
that Americans
did anything good.

836
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,000
The history of writing
is the history

837
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,000
of when people
are actually writing

838
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,000
they do something bad
to themselves at the same time.

839
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,000
You know, people used to drink,
people smoked.

840
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,000
While you're writing, you're
doing something bad to yourself,

841
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,000
and that is to punish yourself
for playing God.

842
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,000
This is not the luckiest time
to be a writer,

843
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
because writers don't have very
much influence on the culture.

844
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,000
And there was a time
when writers

845
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,000
were right in the center
of the culture.

846
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,000
And that is more desirable,

847
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
because writers
want to influence.

848
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,000
Were the Algonquin Round Table

849
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,000
an influence when you
were growing up?

850
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,000
Well, I mean, I read about them.
Yeah.

851
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,000
I'm not that old.
I know.

852
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000
They were in--
That wasn't the point.

853
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,000
I mean, I read--

854
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,000
Because they all had
happy lives.

855
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,000
But they did. I mean, that life
in New York City of those people

856
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,000
was very enjoyable.
They did enjoy that life.

857
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
That's not true
that they didn't.

858
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,000
I mean, they were not
happy people

859
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
in the way
that you're talking about.

860
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,000
But they did enjoy
that life.

861
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,000
In that era,
people played word games.

862
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,000
You know, I mean, adults,
you know, played word games.

863
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,000
The use of language
was highly valued

864
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,000
by the culture in general.

865
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,000
So if you were
very good at it,

866
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,000
like George S. Kaufman
or Dorothy Parker

867
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000
or someone like that, then you
were highly rewarded for it.

868
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,000
Razors pain you

869
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000
Rivers are damp

870
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Acids stain you
And drugs cause cramp.

871
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,000
Guns aren't lawful
Nooses give

872
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,000
Gas smells awful
You might as well live.

873
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,000
You've been referred to

874
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000
as a modern-day
Dorothy Parker,

875
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,000
and I was wondering
if you agree with that.

876
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,000
And if not, who is it that
you seek to emulate,

877
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,000
if anyone at all?

878
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,000
I'm very heartened that
someone who, like,

879
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,000
seems, from this distance,
to be as young as you are

880
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,000
ever heard of Dorothy Parker.

881
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,000
And I am even,
at this point in my life,

882
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,000
happy to be considered
the modern-day anything.

883
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,000
But I'm not really a person
who's ever been, like,

884
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,000
that big on, you know,
I don't know, emulating.

885
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,000
I mean, Dorothy Parker,

886
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,000
if you read her book reviews,
you know,

887
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,000
book reviews
of popular novels,

888
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,000
you never heard of
the writer, you never heard--

889
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,000
They are unbelievably funny.

890
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000
They're funny now. You don't
have to know the writer.

891
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,000
You don't have
to know the book.

892
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,000
So they lost
all their context,

893
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,000
which especially funny writers

894
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,000
depend a lot
on context like that,

895
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,000
and I don't suppose
she thought

896
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,000
anyone would be reading them,
you know, 60 years later.

897
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,000
But you can.
And they're really funny.

898
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,000
You know, they're really,
really funny.

899
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,000
For wit,
I think Dorothy Parker.

900
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,000
For just plain, laugh-out-loud,
unbelievable funniness,

901
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,000
I don't think there's
any American writer

902
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,000
that touches Thurber.

903
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,000
I was kicked out
of class numerous times

904
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,000
for reading Thurber
behind my geography book.

905
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,000
You know, because you
could not stop laughing.

906
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,000
I slept in his bed once.

907
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Yeah, they made his house,
you know,

908
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,000
his childhood house
into a museum

909
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,000
and they invite a writer
to go there and you sleep there.

910
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,000
And, of course, I didn't sleep,
but I, like--

911
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,000
That's the museum I stayed
overnight in by myself.

912
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,000
So I was, like,
terrified.

913
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,000
They were issuing
a Thurber stamp.

914
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,000
And I thought it was
like a literary event,

915
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,000
the issuing of the stamp, but
in fact is was a postal event.

916
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,000
And the postmaster general
came dressed like a general.

917
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,000
The postmaster general
has a uniform.

918
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,000
Where was this?
This was at a bar.

919
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,000
This was wherever Thurber
was from in Ohio, Cincinnati,

920
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000
whatever it is.

921
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,000
It was the issuing
of the stamp.

922
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,000
That was the actual event.

923
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000
And there were hundreds
and hundreds if not thousands,

924
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,000
of people in line,
and I thought, "This is amazing.

925
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,000
So many Thurber fans."

926
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,000
No. They're stamp collectors.

927
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,000
It was like being
at a Star Wars convention.

928
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,000
They go to every first day
issue stamp thing.

929
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000
They're all--
They look like Star Wars fans.

930
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,000
They're all like these kind
of damp, sweaty boys,

931
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,000
hundreds of them. They--

932
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,000
And they have a certain way
that you have to sign it.

933
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,000
They issue
the first day cover,

934
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,000
and they want everyone
associated with it to sign it.

935
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
And if you put your pen,
like, in the wrong-- "No!"

936
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,000
"No." It was the most
bizarre thing I've ever--

937
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,000
It was really like
a Star Wars convention.

938
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,000
They issue the stamp--
I'm not kidding,

939
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,000
like, two months later
they change the postage rate.

940
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,000
So nobody used them.
So no one used them.

941
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,000
Not even two months.

942
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000
That's fitting.
That's just perfect.

943
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,000
So I have some of the stamps
that I got there.

944
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
How does Mr. Kaplan plead?
Quiet.

945
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,000
Not guilty, Your Honor.
There's a first.

946
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000
We are still exhuming bodies.

947
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,000
Enough. Someone else can sort
through the evidentiary issues,

948
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,000
thank God.

949
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Bail is set at 300,000,
cash or bond.

950
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Your Honor.

951
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,000
Happy? No? Good.

952
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,000
Next case.

953
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,000
That is my dream job,
is to be on the Supreme Court.

954
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,000
Chief Justice of the Supreme
Court. It is my dream.

955
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,000
For sartorial reasons?

956
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,000
For-- Well, robes.
Also, you know,

957
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000
other people write their work
for them, you know.

958
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000
They just give their ideas
and other people write it up.

959
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,000
I think I'd be a fabulous
Supreme Court judge

960
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,000
because also,
I make snap judgments.

961
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,000
You know, there's no one
more judgmental than me.

962
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,000
I don't know why
it takes them so long.

963
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,000
Everything up before
the Supreme Court,

964
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,000
I know the answer to.
Like I think, really?

965
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,000
They're deliberating
about this?

966
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,000
Do you believe in--?

967
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,000
No.

968
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Do you believe
in getting even?

969
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,000
You mean do I believe
in revenge?

970
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,000
Yes.
I definitely believe in revenge.

971
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,000
I absolutely
believe in revenge.

972
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Which people always say
revenge is, you know,

973
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,000
a dish best served cold.

974
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000
It's good anytime
you can get it. You know.

975
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,000
Any chance you have
for revenge, take.

976
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,000
Never let that pass you by.
I do. I believe in revenge.

977
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,000
I don't believe
in forgiveness, however.

978
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,000
It might be ethnic,

979
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,000
because forgiveness
is a Christian thing.

980
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,000
I mean, forgiveness,
in fact, is Christianity.

981
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,000
That's what
Christianity is.

982
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,000
I mean, everyone was Jewish,
then came Christ.

983
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,000
He said,
"I'll forgive you."

984
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,000
Oh-ho!
Well, they all went.

985
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Naturally,
it's a much bigger religion.

986
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,000
But the Jewish god
is an avenging god.

987
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,000
The Jewish god's a judge,
you know.

988
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,000
So I am-- I would say
that I am very judgmental.

989
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,000
I'm afraid of gas.

990
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,000
Okay, I don't know,
really, what gas is,

991
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,000
but I know it explodes, because
that's how the car works.

992
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,000
Okay. I'm not touching something
that's going to explode.

993
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Okay? I don't want to,
you know.

994
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,000
I do not want to,
I do not feel--

995
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,000
My grandparents did not come
here steerage to Ellis Island,

996
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,000
so I could put gas in a car.

997
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,000
I'm not putting gas
in the car.

998
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,000
It's as simple as that.

999
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,000
I'm scared of it.
It explodes,

1000
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,000
it smells horrible,
I don't want to touch it.

1001
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,000
In Long Island once,
I got, actually,

1002
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,000
into a fight with someone
who had like a million, like,

1003
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,000
crosses on their--
It was a van,

1004
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,000
and they had, like, all these
crosses pasted to it,

1005
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,000
and like, you know,
"Jesus says" this

1006
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,000
and "Jesus says" that.

1007
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,000
And I said, "You know,
I can't put gas in the car.

1008
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,000
"I am very afraid of gas.

1009
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Could you, like, help me
put gas in the car?" "No."

1010
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,000
Are you kidding me? Like,
the guy was really, like, nasty.

1011
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
I said,

1012
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
"Don't you think Jesus
would put gas in my car?

1013
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,000
"Like, say I asked Jesus.

1014
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,000
"You seem to have an intimate
relationship with Jesus.

1015
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,000
You have things
all over your car."

1016
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,000
I said, "I personally
believe Jesus, if I said,

1017
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,000
"'Excuse me, Jesus,
would you put gas in my car?'

1018
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,000
"He would say,
'Of course.

1019
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,000
'It's the Christian thing
to do.'"

1020
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,000
I own a Checker.
Did you know that?

1021
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,000
You own a Checker?

1022
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000
I own a Checker Marathon.

1023
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,000
That is my car.
I bought it new.

1024
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,000
I bought it in 1978.

1025
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,000
After my first book
came out,

1026
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000
which was the first time
I ever had money,

1027
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,000
and among the last times,

1028
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,000
the first thing I did
was buy a car.

1029
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000
It is very large.
In fact, it's pretty much

1030
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,000
the size of the apartment
that I had when I bought it.

1031
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,000
And the color?

1032
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Well, it is such
a subtle shade of pearl gray

1033
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,000
that straight men
think it's white.

1034
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,000
You know,
when I was in the garage,

1035
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,000
I had to say,
"It's the white..."

1036
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,000
I used to have to say,
"It's the white Checker."

1037
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,000
Now I have to say,
"It's that old big white car

1038
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,000
that looks like
an old-fashioned taxicab."

1039
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,000
I remember
when I got this car

1040
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,000
driving up
to a bookstore uptown

1041
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,000
that was partly owned
by this guy I knew,

1042
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,000
and I pulled up in front
of the bookstore in this car.

1043
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,000
And he came out and he said,
"Once a punk, always a punk."

1044
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,000
Because, it was--
You know,

1045
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,000
It's such a crazy thing to do,
to own a car in Manhattan.

1046
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,000
No one who lives
in the Borough of Manhattan

1047
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,000
who has a car uses it.

1048
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,000
Because you want to get
that full $8 million a month

1049
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000
out of the garage.

1050
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,000
By which I mean, you have
rented its own apartment,

1051
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,000
which in any other city,
it would be--

1052
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:07,000
You could live lavishly.

1053
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,000
And now, I'm going
to answer questions

1054
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,000
from the audience
in an entertaining fashion.

1055
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,000
You don't have to ask them
in an entertaining fashion.

1056
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,000
Don't ask them
in an entertaining fashion.

1057
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,000
When I do things, you know,
like a reading,

1058
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,000
or an interview on a stage,

1059
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,000
I take questions
from the audience.

1060
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,000
But the truth is now

1061
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,000
what people get are answers
from the audience.

1062
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,000
You know, and it's one thing
that I do not want

1063
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,000
is answers
from the audience.

1064
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
I mean, answers from
the audience

1065
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,000
used to be called heckling.

1066
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,000
That's an answer
from the audience.

1067
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,000
You know, I mean,

1068
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,000
who wants an answer
from the audience, you know?

1069
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,000
My feeling always is,
"Really, you don't like it?

1070
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,000
"I mean you came to see me,
I didn't go to see you."

1071
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,000
It isn't like I broke
into your house, you know.

1072
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,000
I know, for instance,

1073
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,000
that there are people who really
dislike me very intensely.

1074
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,000
Almost no one says
anything nasty to me,

1075
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,000
because they're afraid
I'll say something nastier back.

1076
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,000
However,
you can be, you know,

1077
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,000
speaking at a college in,
you know,

1078
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,000
I don't know,
New Orleans or something--

1079
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,000
That's why I thought of because
it happened in New Orleans.

1080
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,000
And so there was an unusual
number of, like,

1081
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,000
what seemed
to be fraternity boys,

1082
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
which I would say was
not maybe my usual audience.

1083
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,000
But there seemed to be
a lot of boys in the audience.

1084
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Like big groups
of boys together.

1085
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,000
You know, not like
the big groups of boys together

1086
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,000
I used to get
in San Francisco,

1087
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,000
the big groups of boys together
that drink a lot of beer

1088
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,000
and that you're not
that happy to see

1089
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,000
when you look into
the audience.

1090
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Because I could still see them.
It was a long time ago.

1091
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000
And it was New Orleans,
which is very humid,

1092
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,000
and it was also raining, which
is, you know, common there.

1093
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,000
So my hair
was extremely curly.

1094
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,000
And after I'd been there
quite a long time,

1095
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,000
one of these kids, these boys,
yelled out,

1096
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,000
"Who does your hair?" Which was
a very surprising thing.

1097
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,000
I mean,
because obviously,

1098
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
he meant my hair
was, like, very curly.

1099
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,000
And so I just said,
"Why, you want to meet him?"

1100
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,000
His mother
wrote me a letter,

1101
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,000
but I mean, like,
a month later,

1102
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,000
telling me that I had
ruined her son's life,

1103
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,000
that her son
dropped out of school.

1104
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,000
"You called my son a..."

1105
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,000
You know, not a homosexual,
another word for homosexual.

1106
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,000
"And he was with his
fraternity brothers,

1107
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,000
"and they were
so hard on him."

1108
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
You know, and that
he had to leave school.

1109
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,000
And I thought to myself,
"Really? He had to leave school?

1110
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,000
He had to leave school?"
I mean, can't you take a joke?

1111
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,000
You know?
You had to leave school?

1112
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,000
And I thought, if the school had
this type of fraternity in it,

1113
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,000
you should be thanking me
for getting your son

1114
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000
out of this idiotic school.

1115
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000
I'm not very often nasty.

1116
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,000
I'm not very often nasty
to people's faces, very rarely.

1117
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
You know,
first of all, you know,

1118
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,000
I believe in talking
behind people's backs,

1119
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,000
that way they hear it
more than once.

1120
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,000
You know.

1121
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Do you have nerves

1122
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,000
before speaking
in front of people?

1123
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,000
No. I reserve
all of my fear for writing.

1124
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,000
All of it.
I mean, really,

1125
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,000
otherwise I would say,
you know, all of it.

1126
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,000
Now of course, that's a very bad
thing to do, you know,

1127
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,000
if you're, say,
supposed to be a writer.

1128
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,000
Would be much better to,
like, spread your fear out,

1129
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,000
you know,
so that you could actually,

1130
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,000
I don't know, write.

1131
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,000
But all my fear
I put in one basket.

1132
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000
I once fell asleep
in the green room

1133
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,000
at Letterman
before I went on.

1134
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,000
That's how--
They had to wake me up.

1135
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,000
"Fran, you're going on next."

1136
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,000
Which, of course, means last
if you're a writer.

1137
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,000
Okay, finally, you know,
Miss America is finally off.

1138
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,000
You would be,
like, the third.

1139
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,000
There would be
an actual movie star.

1140
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,000
Then whoever
is Miss America

1141
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,000
or, you know,
something like that, then you.

1142
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,000
No, I have
no nervousness at all.

1143
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,000
You may be tired of this,

1144
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,000
but tell me about
the writer's block business.

1145
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:44,000
Because everybody seems
to want

1146
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,000
to talk about you
and writer's block.

1147
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,000
Well, I mean, I--
I don't really--

1148
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,000
I would not
call it a writer's block.

1149
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,000
A writer's block, to me,
is a temporary thing.

1150
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,000
A month. Six weeks.
Yeah.

1151
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,000
This is more a writer's
blockade, I would say.

1152
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,000
In fact--
Or a writer's decade?

1153
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,000
Yes, I mean, to me this was
very much like the Vietnam War.

1154
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,000
It was the same timetable.

1155
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,000
It was on the same schedule
as the Vietnam War.

1156
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,000
I don't know how I got into it
and I couldn't get out of it.

1157
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,000
So I don't really know
all the reasons for it.

1158
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,000
I mean, I think I had
a kind of delayed

1159
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:18,000
and not very positive reaction
to success.

1160
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,000
And you were able to go
around and do lectures

1161
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,000
and write a magazine piece
here and a magazine piece there.

1162
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,000
I basically did three million
college lecture dates a year,

1163
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,000
which is really a depressing
way to make a living.

1164
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,000
Yes, you spent a lot of time
on airlines.

1165
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,000
And I really felt you would slog
through these airports

1166
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,000
with your little suitcase.

1167
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,000
I was like the Willy Loman
of literature.

1168
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,000
Yeah. You loved writing

1169
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,000
until you became
a professional writer.

1170
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,000
You said that before.
You said it again.

1171
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,000
What was it about
writing professionally?

1172
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,000
I have a tremendous
resistance to authority,

1173
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,000
even if it's my own.

1174
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,000
You know, I mean,
I think I am really lazy.

1175
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,000
I am the most slothful person
in America.

1176
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,000
No one has wasted time
more than I have. No one.

1177
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,000
No, I would say that, you know,
I don't like to brag,

1178
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,000
but I would say that--

1179
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,000
Well, let me just
put it this way:

1180
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,000
I'm the outstanding waster
of time of my generation.

1181
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,000
I don't need, like,
my friends to say this.

1182
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,000
My enemies would tell you
this is true, you know?

1183
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,000
So there's no-- No one's
wasted time more than I have.

1184
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,000
I mean, I looked up--
You know, it was like 1979.

1185
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,000
I looked up,
it was, like, 2007.

1186
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,000
I thought, "You know,
you better get to work, Fran."

1187
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,000
What's the best source
for unbiased news?

1188
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,000
Me.

1189
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,000
He asked,
in my opinion,

1190
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,000
what's the best source
for unbiased news.

1191
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,000
Me. No, here is the problem.

1192
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,000
Here is what news used to be.
Information.

1193
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,000
That's what news is.

1194
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,000
Now every article
in The New York Times starts--

1195
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,000
No matter what it is,
it starts with, like,

1196
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,000
"On a rocky road
in Afghanistan..."

1197
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,000
It's like three paragraphs

1198
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,000
till you get to a bomb blew up
something in Afghanistan.

1199
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,000
The bomb is the news.
The beginning is the writing.

1200
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,000
Facts, you know, facts are
what's important in news.

1201
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,000
But no one is interested
in facts anymore.

1202
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,000
People are interested--
And this I find astonishing.

1203
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,000
They are interested
in other people's opinions.

1204
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,000
So unbiased news, I don't
think we'll have anymore,

1205
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,000
because no one seems
to know what news is.

1206
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,000
Okay? And no one seems
to know,

1207
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,000
and they turn on
the news,

1208
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000
and they watch people
give their opinions.

1209
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,000
That's what they watch
on TV, the Internet,

1210
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,000
that's what they
participate in.

1211
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,000
Or how do you--? I mean--

1212
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,000
Here's how I feel when
someone on CNN says,

1213
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,000
"And here is
our Twitter number,"

1214
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,000
or whatever you call it.

1215
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,000
I'm not high
on high technology.

1216
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,000
But whatever it is. "We want
to know what you think."

1217
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
And I think,
"Really? I don't."

1218
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,000
Here is the host

1219
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,000
of Jeopardy,
Alex Trebek.

1220
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Thank you,
Johnny Gilbert. Sean.

1221
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,000
Let's try the Quotable
Fran Lebowitz for 400, please.

1222
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,000
Lynne.
What are your guts?

1223
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Yeah.
Lebowitz for 12.

1224
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,000
Sean.
What is room service?

1225
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,000
Yes.

1226
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,000
The media has replaced
every institution.

1227
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,000
It's replaced
every single institution.

1228
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,000
There is--
It's the only authority.

1229
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,000
I mean, it seems to be
an authority, you know,

1230
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,000
but I mean it is--

1231
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,000
It's replaced all other
institutions.

1232
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,000
You know, when they first
invented television,

1233
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,000
apparently there were people
that thought

1234
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,000
that television
would be a failure,

1235
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000
because they thought
that people,

1236
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,000
if they could see
around the screen,

1237
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,000
they wouldn't believe
what was on television.

1238
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,000
In other words, they wouldn't
become absorbed by it.

1239
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,000
You know, they would
be distracted,

1240
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,000
because even
though a TV screen--

1241
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,000
That they would see, like,
you know, the lamp and the sofa.

1242
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,000
And they wouldn't-- And they
wouldn't be absorbed by it.

1243
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,000
And that was one fear
about television.

1244
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,000
Another fear about television
was that, like,

1245
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,000
say, in the 1950s,
intellectuals said,

1246
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,000
you know,
it's gonna ruin the culture.

1247
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,000
But no one could have imagined
what really happened.

1248
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,000
Which is that the world
went inside the television

1249
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,000
and became the world.

1250
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,000
You know. And so even though
that, you know,

1251
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,000
everyone says the Internet
is replacing television,

1252
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:12,000
it's just a different--

1253
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,000
And it's a screen.
It's the same thing.

1254
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000
I mean, it's just
a different format for it.

1255
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000
I do not have a cell phone.
I do not have a BlackBerry.

1256
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,000
I do not have a-- What do you
call it, computer?

1257
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Or any of these things.
A microwave oven. Whatever.

1258
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,000
All of which seem like the same
thing to me, by the way.

1259
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000
You know?
Like, if you tell me,

1260
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,000
"Well, the microwave oven,
can you text on that?"

1261
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000
"Yes." I would believe you.

1262
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,000
Okay, so, I have
none of these machines.

1263
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Which is what allows people

1264
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,000
to not be wherever they are.
Okay?

1265
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,000
But since
I don't have them,

1266
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,000
and I'm forced to be where
I am all the time,

1267
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,000
which is why I'm noticing
what other people are doing.

1268
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Most people aren't noticing
where they are

1269
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,000
because they're not
really any place.

1270
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,000
They're-- If you are, like,
doing this,

1271
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,000
that's where you are.

1272
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,000
I don't care where you're
doing it, that's where you are.

1273
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,000
So the experience of the street,
say, in New York,

1274
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,000
which I have commonly,
you know, every day,

1275
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,000
I'm one of the very few people
in the street

1276
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,000
having the experience
of the street.

1277
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,000
Walking in New York
is a mode of transport.

1278
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,000
That's how I get around.
I walk everywhere.

1279
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,000
So when I'm walking
I'm, like, not strolling.

1280
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,000
I'm not exercising.

1281
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,000
I'm getting somewhere
and, of course,

1282
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,000
because it's New York,
I'm late.

1283
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:32,000
So one of the things I don't
have time for is strollers.

1284
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,000
If you look at who's
in these strollers,

1285
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,000
half the time the children
are so big they don't even fit.

1286
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,000
In other words,
their legs are dragging.

1287
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000
These children,
they're 5'10", 5'11",

1288
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,000
they're lolling
in the back.

1289
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,000
I mean, the first person
who invents a stroller

1290
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,000
with a shaving mirror,

1291
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,000
that person is gonna
be a millionaire.

1292
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,000
Because when I was a child,

1293
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,000
the worst thing
a child could call another child

1294
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,000
was a baby.
That was the worst thing.

1295
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,000
Now apparently that is
the goal of all children,

1296
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,000
is to stay babies.

1297
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,000
And it is apparently
the goal of the parents,

1298
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,000
maybe who figure,
"We went to all this trouble

1299
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,000
"to have a baby.
Let's keep them a baby.

1300
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,000
I mean, it cost 40 grand
to have these two babies."

1301
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,000
Or maybe more. Probably that's
a naive estimate.

1302
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,000
I don't know,
I've never done this.

1303
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,000
People are probably
watching this and saying,

1304
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,000
"Forty grand, what is she,
some hick? Not here.

1305
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,000
Here it costs 80 grand."

1306
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000
You know, they have
these, like, twins.

1307
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,000
They keep them
in the stroller

1308
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,000
till they're like 16,
17 years old.

1309
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:28,000
They have this look
on their face like,

1310
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
"Walk? Not me.
I'm not walking."

1311
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,000
I'm wondering what the New York

1312
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,000
of your dreams
would be like,

1313
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,000
if we got rid of the tourists,
you know?

1314
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,000
The New York of my dreams?

1315
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,000
I mean, everyone,
no matter how old they are,

1316
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000
says New York
used to be better.

1317
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,000
This has always been true,
by the way.

1318
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,000
In 1812, people said, "Wasn't
New York better in 1790?"

1319
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,000
So people always say New York
used to be better,

1320
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000
and it can't
always be true. Okay?

1321
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,000
Now, I have been very careful
not to do what many people do,

1322
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,000
which is,
one of the things,

1323
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,000
when you say something
used to be better,

1324
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,000
that's implicit
in that is that,

1325
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,000
well, when it used to better,

1326
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,000
here's one thing
that is always true:

1327
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,000
You were younger.

1328
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
If you ask me, "Was New York
better in the '70s?"

1329
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,000
I would say,
"Absolutely,"

1330
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,000
with the caveat that I know that
I was in my 20s in the '70s.

1331
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,000
So I know that it's better

1332
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,000
to be in your 20s
than in your 50s.

1333
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,000
I know that.
I'm aware of it. Okay?

1334
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,000
I do think, objectively,
New York was better,

1335
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,000
because it was
less boring.

1336
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,000
I don't know.

1337
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,000
Everyone seems to have
a very high boredom threshold.

1338
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,000
Okay?
Also, you could smoke.

1339
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,000
Which is one of the reasons
it was less boring.

1340
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,000
Because if you're a smoker,
when you're smoking,

1341
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,000
no matter how boring it is,
at least you're smoking.

1342
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Smoking is an addiction.

1343
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,000
People act now like it's
some sort of moral failure.

1344
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,000
But, I mean, in fact, I mean,
it's a very strong addiction.

1345
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:55,000
You know. This is-- I mean,
let me put it to you this way.

1346
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,000
I could be starving to death.
I wouldn't leave my apartment

1347
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,000
at 3:00 in the morning
in a snowstorm

1348
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,000
for anything
but cigarettes.

1349
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,000
You know. And I remember once,
you know,

1350
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,000
being in a Duanereade,
this drugstore,

1351
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,000
to buy cigarettes
at, like, 3:00 in the morning.

1352
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,000
And the clerk
had to say,

1353
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,000
"Oh, you know, Marlboro Lights,
they're on sale."

1354
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,000
And I thought, really?
Why? Why are they on sale?

1355
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,000
I mean, you know, it's, like,
is there a heroin sale?

1356
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,000
You know, a sale
is to entice you, and I'm here--

1357
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,000
It's 3:00 in the morning,
it's snowing. You know.

1358
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,000
They could be a million
dollars, I don't care.

1359
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,000
All the things they say now
about cigarette smoking,

1360
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,000
they used to say
about homosexuality. Okay?

1361
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,000
They used to say you can't
be around children.

1362
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,000
It was really always
the secondhand nature

1363
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,000
of homosexuality
that scared people.

1364
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Okay? You--

1365
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,000
Gay bars were illegal.

1366
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,000
They were in backrooms.

1367
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,000
They were raided
by the police.

1368
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,000
But you could
smoke in them.

1369
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,000
It was against the law.
And it was beyond the pale.

1370
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,000
I mean, it was illegal,

1371
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,000
and when they would raid
a gay bar--

1372
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,000
This is even when
I first came to New York,

1373
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,000
which was like '69,
something like that.

1374
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
When they would raid a gay bar,
the next day,

1375
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
the names of every single
person in the bar, the patrons,

1376
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,000
was in The New York Times,
not just some tabloid,

1377
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,000
and every single person was
fired from their job that day,

1378
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,000
and it didn't matter,
what your job was.

1379
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,000
If you were a cardiologist
at Mount Sinai Hospital,

1380
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,000
you sold shoes
at Bloomingdale's,

1381
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,000
you taught third grade
at PS10,

1382
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,000
you were fired
from your job.

1383
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:30,000
And the reason:
You were homosexual.

1384
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,000
That was the reason
for firing.

1385
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,000
That wasn't like,
"Well, we're going to pretend

1386
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,000
it's about something--" No.
It was respectable to do that.

1387
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,000
Now, gay bars have, like,
plate-glass windows,

1388
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,000
they have valet parking,
the cars pull up,

1389
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,000
people are sitting
in the windows.

1390
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,000
But you have to go outside
to smoke.

1391
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:53,000
I mean, if you had told me,
when I was 14 years old,

1392
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,000
that the behavior
in which I engaged

1393
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,000
that would be considered
most deviant

1394
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,000
would have been
cigarette smoking,

1395
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,000
I would have had a whole
different adolescence.

1396
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,000
I have a shelf full,
more than a shelf full

1397
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,000
of books written by doctors
about homosexuality,

1398
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,000
explaining how it's contagious
it's deviant, it's--

1399
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,000
Just the way,
I guarantee you,

1400
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,000
I won't live long enough
because I smoke,

1401
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,000
but you will live to see them
admit that this data

1402
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,000
on secondhand smoke
is fudged.

1403
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,000
If secondhand cigarette smoke,
this little stream of smoke,

1404
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,000
if that is that dangerous,

1405
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,000
imagine what happens
when you turn on

1406
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
the engine of your car.

1407
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,000
Do you feel that gay rights
is progressing in this country,

1408
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,000
to be as equal as--

1409
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,000
I mean, to be part of
the civil rights conversation?

1410
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,000
First of all, I don't think
these things are alike

1411
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,000
the way other people do.

1412
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,000
I think there has always been a
difference between these things.

1413
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,000
And I think there is
a difference

1414
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,000
between being marginalized
and being oppressed.

1415
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,000
I know-- I know every bad thing,
believe me.

1416
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,000
I'm not saying
it's nothing.

1417
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,000
I'm just saying
it's not slavery. Okay?

1418
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,000
It's not the same thing.

1419
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
In my lifetime,
it's inconceivable

1420
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,000
that it's even gotten
to the point

1421
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,000
where people
use the word "gay."

1422
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,000
That's progress, by the way.
I mean, if you like the word.

1423
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,000
I personally don't
use it in private, but--

1424
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,000
--I mean, do I think
gay marriage is progress?

1425
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,000
Are you kidding me?

1426
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,000
Like, this was one of the good
things about being gay.

1427
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,000
I mean, I am stunned

1428
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,000
that the two greatest desires,
apparently,

1429
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,000
of people involved
in gay rights movements

1430
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,000
is gay marriage and gays
in the military. Really?

1431
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,000
I mean, to me it seems
like these are

1432
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,000
the two most confining
institutions on the planet:

1433
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,000
marriage
and the military.

1434
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,000
Why would you be, like, beating
down the doors to get in?

1435
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,000
Usually a fight for freedom
is a fight for freedom.

1436
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,000
This is like the opposite.

1437
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,000
You know, this is like
a fight for slavery.

1438
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000
I find it
completely shocking.

1439
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,000
I mean, if it was
on the ballot here

1440
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,000
I'd vote for it
because I know people want it.

1441
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,000
But, personally, not me.

1442
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,000
Nor do I want
to go in the Army.

1443
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,000
I mean, people used
to pretend to be gay

1444
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,000
to get out
of going in the Army.

1445
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,000
I always had this theory

1446
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,000
that if you want to move
someone else as an artist,

1447
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,000
you want to,

1448
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,000
you yourself necessarily
must have been deeply moved

1449
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,000
by what it is
that you're writing,

1450
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:27,000
but you must keep exploiting
that emotion in yourself

1451
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,000
over and over
and over and over

1452
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,000
till you've become
completely cold about it.

1453
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,000
I mean, so that you
no longer laugh, say,

1454
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,000
about whatever it is
that made you laugh,

1455
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,000
or you don't weep for whatever
it is that made you weep.

1456
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,000
You see it like it was
some extraordinary specimen

1457
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,000
but you know that it had that
effect on you, personally.

1458
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:50,000
So that you know that
if you can reproduce it,

1459
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,000
you can make it have exactly
the same effect on--

1460
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,000
On someone else.

1461
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,000
People used to say
all the time

1462
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,000
there must be something
about homosexuality

1463
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,000
that makes you
more artistic.

1464
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,000
Because there is
such a huge,

1465
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,000
I mean, beyond excessive number
of homosexual artists

1466
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,000
relative to the number
of homosexuals.

1467
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,000
But, of course,
it isn't it true.

1468
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,000
What is not true that being
homosexual makes you artistic.

1469
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,000
What is true is that
being put in prison,

1470
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,000
or being, like,
kept out,

1471
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,000
or being--
Being depressed.

1472
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:28,000
I mean, or being--
Being forced to observe.

1473
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,000
When Toni Morrison won
the Nobel Prize for Literature,

1474
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,000
she took a bunch of friends
with her to watch her get it,

1475
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,000
because I guess what's the fun
of winning a Nobel Prize,

1476
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,000
if people don't
see you get it?

1477
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,000
And at the Nobel Prize ball,

1478
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,000
which is an incredibly
elaborate event,

1479
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,000
even more than it sounds like,

1480
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:56,000
with flags flying on the--
It's really beautiful.

1481
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,000
The whole city stands out to
applaud economists and writers.

1482
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,000
It's just like New York.

1483
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,000
And it is very formal.

1484
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,000
It's like white tie.

1485
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,000
And we all walked in together,
all of Toni's friends.

1486
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,000
And there's someone
who's in charge

1487
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,000
of seating
the Nobel Prize dinner.

1488
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,000
And everyone was sitting
at the same table, except me.

1489
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,000
Well, not Toni.
Toni was sitting with the king.

1490
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:21,000
As I sit down, I realize
I'm the only adult at the table.

1491
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,000
It is all-- All the people
who win the science prizes,

1492
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,000
they're very young,
you know.

1493
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,000
And it was all--
It was their kids.

1494
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,000
I was sitting at
the children's table

1495
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,000
at the Nobel Prize ball.

1496
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,000
It's, like, it took me years
to get out of that table

1497
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,000
in my own family
at Thanksgiving,

1498
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,000
and now, I'm sitting
at this children's table

1499
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,000
at the Nobel Prize ball,

1500
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,000
where the next oldest person
to me was 12.

1501
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,000
And this was what
the Nobel Prize ball dinner,

1502
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,000
which is like six hours,
was like for me.

1503
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,000
"Put that down.
Take that out of your pocket."

1504
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,000
It would be like--

1505
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,000
And they're reading
the menu

1506
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,000
and the food comes
and the little boy next to me,

1507
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,000
the 8-year-old says,
"What's that?"

1508
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,000
And so I said,
"Mm, it's steak."

1509
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,000
It was a reindeer.
Oh.

1510
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,000
And so he goes,
"Really, it's steak?"

1511
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,000
I said, "Yes, it's steak."
Okay, he eats it.

1512
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:11,000
As soon as he's done eating,

1513
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,000
his older brother goes,
"It's reindeer!

1514
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,000
You ate Bambi!"

1515
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,000
And the kid, like, looks at me,
and he's furious,

1516
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,000
and he goes,
"You lied to me."

1517
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,000
And I said, "That's okay.
I'm not your mother.

1518
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,000
You're never gonna
see me again."

1519
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,000
"You lied to me!
How could you lie to me?

1520
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,000
I'll never trust you again!"

1521
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,000
I said, "You'll never
see me again.

1522
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,000
You're 8 years old.
You live in Kansas."

1523
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,000
That was my experience
of the Nobel Prize ball.

1524
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Teaching manners to
these children from Kansas.

1525
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,000
And I really needed
to know manners too,

1526
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,000
because at a certain point,

1527
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,000
I got up and walked over
to my publisher's table,

1528
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,000
who's also Toni's publisher,

1529
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,000
although they've had
better luck with Toni,

1530
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,000
to ask his wife something.
And she was--

1531
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,000
She said, "Get down.
What are you doing?"

1532
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,000
She said, "Get down." She pushed
me down on the floor.

1533
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,000
And I said, "What are
you talking about?"

1534
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,000
She said, "You know
you can't stand up

1535
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,000
"if the king
is sitting down.

1536
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,000
You know that, Fran."

1537
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,000
I said, "I don't know that."
She said, "You know that."

1538
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,000
I said, "How would
I know that?"

1539
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,000
Like, this is one thing
my mother forgot to teach me.

1540
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,000
"And, Fran, if you're ever
having dinner in the same room

1541
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,000
with the King of Sweden,
make sure you don't stand up."

1542
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,000
I mean, she said,
"You cannot-- Stay there.

1543
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,000
You're gonna cause
an international incident."

1544
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,000
So then she goes,
"Go back to your table."

1545
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,000
I said, "How can I go
back to my table?"

1546
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,000
And I walked back.
I was like Groucho Marx.

1547
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,000
I walked back to my table
like this.

1548
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,000
So apparently,
although I have always thought

1549
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,000
that I, you know,
had good manners,

1550
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,000
not good enough for this.

1551
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,000
Nice to have you with us,
especially since

1552
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,000
you're going through
a hard time.

1553
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,000
A little bit of controversy
about your children's book,

1554
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:40,000
Mr. Chas and Lisa Su
Meet the Pandas.

1555
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:41,000
What's going on?

1556
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,000
Well, I've heard from a great
number of panda experts.

1557
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,000
You're probably surprised,
as I was, to discover

1558
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,000
there are a great number
of panda experts.

1559
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,000
I mean, I've actually
gotten letters that say,

1560
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,000
"Pandas don't eat pizza."

1561
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,000
Really?
"Pandas eat bamboo,

1562
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,000
which, in fact,
is why they're rare."

1563
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,000
Because there are apparently
fewer and fewer bamboo trees.

1564
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,000
Okay. That's why
there are no pandas.

1565
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,000
That is right. So clearly,
they should eat pizza.

1566
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,000
"These pandas talk."

1567
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,000
So I was obviously--

1568
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,000
Which is another--
I was trying to pull the wool

1569
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,000
over the eyes
of the American public.

1570
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,000
Now, you've been writing
real adult books.

1571
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,000
Not real adult books.
I shouldn't say that.

1572
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:26,000
You've been writing
adult books

1573
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,000
and you've been writing
children's books.

1574
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,000
What is easier to do?

1575
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,000
Children's books.

1576
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,000
Really? Why is that?
Yes.

1577
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,000
The whole thing is much less
complicated

1578
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,000
and there are pictures
that take up a lot of the space.

1579
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,000
So, what happens when--?

1580
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,000
what happens when
you go on TV shows, say,

1581
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,000
like this one and you say

1582
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,000
writing children's books
is easy?

1583
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Easier.
Easier.

1584
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,000
Do children's book
authors now get mad?

1585
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,000
Are you going to get
letters from them?

1586
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:52,000
Yes.
You will?

1587
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,000
I've gotten letters
from them.

1588
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:55,000
You've offended them now.
Yes.

1589
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,000
But they write in crayon
on short cardboard, so--

1590
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,000
All right.
It's not that threatening.

1591
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,000
It's not
a threatening thing.

1592
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:09,000
I am interested
in that arc of creativity

1593
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,000
that's associated
with age.

1594
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,000
So I'm wondering
why it is

1595
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:18,000
that some artists
are better later in life.

1596
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,000
Not all writers
become better, Toni. I mean--

1597
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,000
Of course not.
No. I mean, first of all,

1598
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,000
some writers run out
of material.

1599
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,000
I mean, some--
You know--

1600
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,000
Fitzgerald.
I mean, I know he died.

1601
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,000
But if he had lived, is there
any doubt in your mind

1602
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,000
that he would have
become a worse writer?

1603
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,000
He would have not become
a better writer, Fitzgerald.

1604
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,000
He wrote The Crack-Up,
though.

1605
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,000
Yeah.
Very late.

1606
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,000
Before he died, though.

1607
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:47,000
To require someone to turn out
masterpieces is psychotic.

1608
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,000
You know. I mean, you know,
to say things like,

1609
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,000
"Fitzgerald, he only wrote
one great book."

1610
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,000
You know, I mean, Really?
How many do most people write?

1611
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,000
You know. Most writers
who write a million books,

1612
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,000
don't write even
one good book.

1613
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,000
You know, so I'm not saying
that it's not

1614
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,000
an incredibly
valuable thing to have done.

1615
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,000
I mean, Toni Morrison's
new book, you know,

1616
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,000
is, I think,
her best book.

1617
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,000
You know, she's 76.

1618
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,000
I think there's an idea
that has to do, really,

1619
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,000
with people's idea
of artists

1620
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,000
that has nothing at all
to do with art,

1621
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,000
but just people's-- A romantic
idea of the artist.

1622
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,000
So a romantic idea
of the artist,

1623
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,000
the artist has to be young,

1624
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,000
because no one has a romantic
idea of an old person.

1625
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:22,000
I was interested
in older people.

1626
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,000
I always had friends
much older than me.

1627
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,000
I had friends
so much older than me

1628
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:27,000
that by the time I was 40,

1629
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,000
many of my closest friends
died of old age already.

1630
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,000
But it was because
they were older than me.

1631
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:33,000
In other words,
because they could

1632
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,000
teach me something,
you know,

1633
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,000
but not because I thought they
were going to do the new thing.

1634
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,000
That was my job.

1635
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,000
You know, that's how the work
used to be split up.

1636
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:46,000
There's nothing new because the
culture is soaked in nostalgia.

1637
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:50,000
You know, I believe that that
must be caused by people my age.

1638
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,000
I mean, that cannot be
caused by 17-year-olds.

1639
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,000
I mean, whosever in charge,
whosever driving,

1640
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,000
they're the one
that has the accident.

1641
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,000
I mean, if you're young,
everything's new to you.

1642
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,000
So you don't know
that it isn't new.

1643
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,000
You know, so that you go
to an exhibit

1644
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,000
of a, you know, young artist
and everyone says,

1645
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,000
"This is amazing."
And you look and you think,

1646
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,000
"This is surrealism.
This is a hundred years old."

1647
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,000
But you have to first know that,
you know.

1648
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,000
Otherwise it seems like
a new invention to you.

1649
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,000
Um, but, uh...

1650
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,000
There's an endless recycling of
the culture of the last 30 years

1651
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,000
that is really death-dealing.

1652
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,000
You know, I think
it's just horrible.

1653
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,000
Really awful.

1654
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,000
You know, and that is a sort
of change I would like to see.

1655
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,000
You know, I think
that is the job

1656
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,000
of people who are young.

1657
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,000
That's your job.
Do something new.

1658
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,000
The action spreads

1659
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,000
on Monday and Tuesday.

1660
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,000
As enemy flags
are fixed to war memorials,

1661
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,000
the issue of war
is joined to law and order.

1662
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,000
Mr. Vidal,

1663
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,000
wasn't it a provocative act

1664
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:57,000
to try to raise a Vietcong flag
in the park?

1665
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,000
There are many acts
which provoke.

1666
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,000
But if you're going to have
freedom of assembly and speech,

1667
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,000
you must be able to say it.
That is the whole point.

1668
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,000
But I assume that the point
of American democracy

1669
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,000
is you can express
any point of view you want.

1670
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,000
Shut up a minute.
No, I won't.

1671
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,000
Some people were pro-Nazi,

1672
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,000
and they were well-treated
by people who ostracized them,

1673
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,000
and I'm for ostracizing people
who egg on other people

1674
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,000
to shoot American Marines
and American soldiers.

1675
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,000
I know you don't care--
As far as I'm concerned

1676
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,000
the only pro- or crypto-Nazi
I can think of is yourself.

1677
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Failing that, I would only say
that we can't have--

1678
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,000
Let's not call names.

1679
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,000
Listen, you queer,
stop calling me a crypto-Nazi

1680
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,000
or I'll sock you
in your goddamn face.

1681
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,000
Gentlemen, let's--

1682
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,000
Let the author
of Myra Breckinridge

1683
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,000
go back to his pornography

1684
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,000
and stop making
any allusions of Nazism

1685
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,000
to somebody who was
infantry in the last war.

1686
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:48,000
You were not
in the infantry.

1687
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,000
As a matter of fact,
you didn't fight in the war.

1688
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,000
Now you're distorting
your own military record.

1689
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,000
You have every right
in this country

1690
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,000
to take any position
you want to take

1691
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,000
because we are guaranteed
freedom of speech.

1692
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:03,000
We've just listened to a rather
grotesque example of it.

1693
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,000
Ladies and gentlemen,

1694
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,000
please welcome Fran Lebowitz.

1695
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,000
I heard that the Bush
administration had appointed

1696
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:16,000
something called
the Iraq Study Group last week.

1697
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,000
I mean, even if you were,
say, I don't know,

1698
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,000
in the third grade--

1699
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:34,000
--and you had a math test
coming up,

1700
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:37,000
when do you think would
be the best time to study?

1701
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,000
Before the test?

1702
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:52,000
Or three years
after the test?

1703
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:10,000
Where do you think
the Iraq Study Group meets?

1704
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,000
I think,
Windows on the World.

1705
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,000
Don't boo me.
I'm not even getting paid.

1706
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,000
I did have the experience in my
lifetime of once being booed

1707
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,000
by a quarter
of a million people, okay?

1708
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:30,000
And this is the experience.

1709
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,000
This is caused by Joe Papp.

1710
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,000
There was this big movement
to get the Jews out of Russia.

1711
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,000
I mean,
big among Jews,

1712
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,000
not among Russians or anyone
else. No one noticed it.

1713
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:44,000
And Joe Papp organized
a kind of a rally

1714
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,000
that was in front of the UN

1715
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:51,000
that was in favor of Soviet
Jewry being let out of Russia.

1716
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,000
And because Joe Papp was
the head of the Public Theater,

1717
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,000
he had at his fingertips,
like, you know,

1718
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,000
all the famous actors.

1719
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,000
So he got all these actors
to appear at this rally

1720
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:05,000
to read letters from refuseniks,
people in Russia.

1721
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,000
And he called me and said,
would I participate in this?

1722
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:11,000
He had come to see me give a
reading of a book I was writing.

1723
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:14,000
And I said okay, you know,
that I would do it.

1724
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,000
And he said, "But, you know,
here's the thing.

1725
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:22,000
"I went to your reading.
You can't be subtle at this.

1726
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,000
"You can't just like lift that
eyebrow like I saw you do,

1727
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,000
"you know,
in that bookstore.

1728
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,000
"You have to be able to act,
you know, like Gregory Peck.

1729
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,000
Can you act like that?"
I said, "No, of course I can't.

1730
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:32,000
No, see,
here's the difference.

1731
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,000
"Gregory Peck, he's an actor.
I'm not an actor. I can't act."

1732
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,000
Because you're supposed
to be like the person

1733
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:39,000
who's writing the letter.

1734
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:42,000
But I was very much
looking forward to--

1735
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,000
Because I looked out
and I didn't know

1736
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,000
how many people there were.

1737
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,000
There was what looked like
a billion people at this rally.

1738
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,000
And I, of course,
had never had

1739
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,000
such a large audience
myself.

1740
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,000
And I love to talk
in front of people.

1741
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,000
So I thought,
"This is great.

1742
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,000
"Look at how
many people there are here.

1743
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,000
This is fantastic."

1744
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,000
And so then right before
I go--

1745
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,000
Gregory Peck,
he was excellent.

1746
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,000
I can't think of who
the other actors were.

1747
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,000
But all excellent, you know.
They were all great.

1748
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,000
But they also all talked
a little bit

1749
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,000
before they read the letter.

1750
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,000
And Joe Papp comes over
and he goes,

1751
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,000
"You have to say
something before.

1752
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:17,000
Do you have something
to say?" I said no.

1753
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,000
So he said, "Well, just think
of something to say."

1754
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,000
I said, "Okay."

1755
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,000
So I have my letter,

1756
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,000
which I tell the name of the
person who wrote the letter.

1757
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:26,000
And I say,
"I'm sure that when--"

1758
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:29,000
And I don't even remember who
was head of Russia at the time,

1759
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,000
whoever was the head
of Russia.

1760
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,000
"--I'm sure when, you know,
so-and-so,

1761
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,000
"the head of Russia,
sees this on TV,

1762
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,000
"and sees how many
people are here,

1763
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,000
"that he'll immediately
acquiesce to your demands.

1764
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,000
"Because I know that I,
for one,

1765
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,000
certainly would not want this
many Jewish women angry at me."

1766
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:50,000
A quarter of a million
people boo, all at once.

1767
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:55,000
I mean, it's a sound
I cannot describe to you.

1768
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,000
And two of the rabbis,
you know,

1769
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,000
jump up and like
walk off the stage.

1770
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,000
And I have like no idea
really what's happening.

1771
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,000
Like, to me, I think,
"Well, it's not that funny,

1772
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,000
but it's not the most unfunny
thing in the world."

1773
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,000
And then I like look.
Joe Papp is like--

1774
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,000
So I'm thinking,
"Do you want me to leave?"

1775
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,000
"No." So then I had to read this
letter with them booing.

1776
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,000
So that was my worst
audience experience

1777
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,000
was being booed by
a quarter of a million people

1778
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,000
and having to be taken off
the back of the stage by cops.

1779
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Okay, because there was
so much anger at me still,

1780
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,000
even after I read
this delightful letter,

1781
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,000
from like the good Jew who
wanted to get out of Russia

1782
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,000
as opposed to me, the bad Jew,
who made fun of people.

1783
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,000
Cops actually took me
and they took me

1784
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,000
out of the whole neighborhood
in a police car.

1785
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:42,000
Okay, so, after that, really,
what could happen to you?

1786
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:47,000
You know, very little,
I must say.

1787
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,000
You are just so fantastic.

1788
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,000
Thank you. What is this?

1789
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,000
Say It As It Is.
I love it so much.

1790
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,000
This isn't me.

1791
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,000
What?

1792
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,000
Who's this?

1793
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,000
Fran Lebowitz?

1794
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,000
What is this?
I have no idea.

1795
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,000
It's not me.

1796
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:07,000
What do you mean?

1797
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,000
This must be
a different Fran Lebowitz.

1798
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,000
What is this?

1799
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,000
Is this your booth
or is that your booth?

1800
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,000
Well, I think of this
as my booth,

1801
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,000
but all over New York there's
hundreds of thousands of people

1802
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,000
who think they have
a table in a restaurant.

1803
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,000
"That's my table." You know.
"That is my table.

1804
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,000
Don't move my table.
That's my table."

1805
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:30,000
And people,
"That's my dry cleaners.

1806
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,000
They moved my dry cleaners."

1807
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:36,000
This is a kind of ownership
that people in New York feel,

1808
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,000
despite the fact that no one,
you know,

1809
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,000
owns less than your average
New Yorker,

1810
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,000
but no one feels
they own more.

1811
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,000
Now, did you pose for this,
by the way?

1812
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:48,000
I did not. I didn't even know
it was gonna be painted.

1813
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:49,000
Okay.

1814
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,000
And then one night
I was eating here,

1815
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,000
and I saw a man
sitting across,

1816
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,000
and he kept looking at me,
looking at me.

1817
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:57,000
And I see him talk
to the waiter.

1818
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:00,000
And then I hear him say,
"Ask Ms. Lebowitz

1819
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,000
if she'd like to meet
the man who drew her."

1820
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:07,000
And it was Mr. Sorel.
And he came over.

1821
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,000
And he did it from
a photograph, he said.

1822
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,000
At first I thought,
"Well, I don't know,

1823
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,000
it's a little harsh."

1824
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,000
Now I think
I look younger.

1825
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,000
At a certain point,

1826
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,000
the worst picture
taken of you when you were 25

1827
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,000
is better than the best picture
taken of you when you're 45.

1828
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,000
There's no--
There's no question.

1829
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,000
Okay, so when you do
need a second opinion,

1830
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,000
who do you go to?

1831
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,000
Why would I need
a second opinion?

1832
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,000
You mean, like, a cardiologist?
That kind of second opinion?

1833
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,000
I go to a cardiologist
when I need a second opinion.

1834
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,000
Thank you very much.
Good night.

1835
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,000
Whether people seek
my advice or not,

1836
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,000
it's really pleasurable
knowing everything.

1837
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,000
Now, I'm sure
that people think,

1838
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,000
"She doesn't know everything."
But they're wrong. I do.

1839
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,000
So knowing everything
is really pleasurable,

1840
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,000
especially watching
other people

1841
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,000
who don't know everything.
You know?

1842
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,000
So that it's like
I feel like

1843
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,000
I'm in the stage of life,

1844
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,000
what I would call
"the last laugh" stage of life.

1845
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:13,000
You know? And the last laugh,
it's good.