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Kiss my ass.

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Oh my God.

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It's Tommy.

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It's Tommy.

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Unbelievable. Unbeatable.

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Nothing beats, you know, my time in ECW.
It was the greatest time of my life.

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Word association.

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ECW, fun.

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End of story.

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We were changing everything about
wrestling. That's the way we felt, and

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what we believed.

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It was like nothing I've ever seen
before, and I became a fan instantly.

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ECW was coming out with violence, and
the crowd just ate it up. Those fans

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absolutely rabid. The Philadelphia fans
are some of the most vocal.

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And at times, most violent.

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There were things that we couldn't do
that Paul Heyman was able to do and

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attracted an audience because of it.
That was smart.

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He showed us that you could appeal to
one segment of the audience and make a

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of it. I believe Paul Lee is one of the
greatest minds in the history of

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wrestling. I didn't think it was going
to fall.

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This was Paul's baby.

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It just gave me a realization.

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Appreciate what you have today, because
it may not be there tomorrow.

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When Paul Hamid came into ECW, Todd
Gordon was the owner of ECW. At the

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was called Eastern Championship
Wrestling.

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And Eddie Gilbert was the booker there,
matchmaker.

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Todd and Eddie had a bad falling out.
And Todd turned to me because I was...

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Eddie's closest confidant and said, what
do I do here?

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And he had a big show coming up at the
Bingo Hall, which was dubbed the ECW

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Arena. I thought that the business, the
industry, the presentation needed to

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change in the same way that music had
changed because music was all about

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and Motley Crue and Winger and all these
hair bands.

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And then along came Nirvana and bam, the
whole industry changed.

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So in the same way, I thought wrestling
needed to change in that.

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Wrestling had become the equivalent of
hair bands, and we needed wrestling's

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version of Nirvana to come along and
just shake everything up. And Todd gave

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his blessing. Come on in, take over the
show, and do what you have to do. And on

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September 18th, 1993, we opened up the
show at the ECW Arena with an act called

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The Public Enemy.

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Flyboy, Rock O' Rock, and Johnny Grunge,
The Public Enemy.

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I knew Rocko Rock for a long time.

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Johnny Grunge I met on an overseas tour.

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They were opponents all the time, and I
figured they had such great chemistry as

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opponents, boy, they'd make a great tag
team.

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They'd go on air, they were two white
guys that were just rapping and dancing

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badly and just having fun, but it was
entertaining.

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But then once that bell rang, they were
two rugged guys from Philly that could

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fight. You could put together a package
that nobody else had tapped into yet.

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Rocco Rocco went up top. He couldn't.
Oh, my God.

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00:03:32,030 --> 00:03:34,710
Rocco Rocco went through both tables.

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00:03:35,310 --> 00:03:37,870
They were a super popular tag team.

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The Tasmania.

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No one is more extreme than the
Tasmania.

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I knew Paul from just working in
Independence through the Northeast, you

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in the late 80s, early 90s.

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Paul called me, and Paul said, well,
listen, I got a date for you against

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guy Sabu. Do you know who he is? I go,
well, I've heard of Sabu.

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He said, well, I want you to wrestle
him. You think you could have a good

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At the time, I just wanted to get booked
anywhere I could.

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Yeah, sure, we'd have a great match, you
know.

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I went to Philly and wrestled Sabu, and
we had a pretty intense, very physical

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match. These two men are a couple of
animals. This match will be taking place

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a zoo.

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As far as getting any of the dates.

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I ended up working for Paul for about
close to seven years after that. We have

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met a new sport in NWA, Eastern
Championship Wrestling. We have met

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the most animalistic wrestler in the
history of this sport. We have met

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Shabu had developed a reputation in FMW
in Japan.

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I looked at Sabu and I was mesmerized by
him because here was someone that had

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scars all over his body and a total
disregard for his own well -being. And

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looks like he will fight you to the
death.

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And to me, in developing the aura of
ECW,

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Sabu was the main key to it all. Because
here was a guy that we could put up his

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picture on television and people would
say, Yo, that's difficult.

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Oh my God, Sabu!

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Here we go!

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He was crazy and he was so innovative.

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The way he could, he would use a chair
as a weapon and jump from a chair to the

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top rope to a moon vault.

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Things that Sabu physically could do are
amazing.

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Sabu going up top with the chair.

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Atomic Arabian Face Buster!

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First time for that finisher here in the
ECW arena.

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And what this ECW is doing is educating
you people once again that there is

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wrestling spelled W -R -E -S -T -L -I -N
-G out

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00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:04,580
there. There would not have been an ECW
without Terry Funk.

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He was the only veteran from that era.

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who had the reputation of being
legitimately tough, but also had the

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sense to realize, I've got to get the
next generation ready for there to be a

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business, for there to be an industry
for me to leave behind something, too.

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And Terry had that mindset. A lot of the
veterans back then were unwilling.

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to get the young guys ready. A lot of
the veterans were still clinging and

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clutching to their spot, to their
reputation of being the top guy. I want

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the champion.

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00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:41,280
I want to be the top guy. And Terry Funk
just said, oh, I can make him.

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00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:42,720
Oh, I can make him too.

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Oh, let me make him. I'll do something
special with him. And did, with

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that he worked with.

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For those of you who were not at the ECW
Arena this past Saturday night, you may

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have missed.

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00:06:55,980 --> 00:07:00,580
what many are now calling the greatest
wrestling match to take place in this

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country in quite some time.

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00:07:07,180 --> 00:07:07,660
It

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00:07:07,660 --> 00:07:17,980
was

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a three -way dance. The first one ever,
three guys fighting for a title.

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Shane Douglas, Sabu, and Terry Funk.

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They went to a one -hour time limit.

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At the end of the match, all the fans
were standing on their feet, and they

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applauding all the wrestlers' hard work.

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It was like go time for this company.
You knew something special was here, and

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00:07:57,490 --> 00:08:01,770
we started running more and more towns
after that.

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00:08:02,570 --> 00:08:08,130
I got a couple words for you. Tonight, I
took the so -called self -proclaimed

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Terry Funk, and I beat his right in the
center of the ring.

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I took Sabu, the crazy man of wrestling,
and I beat his ass. Center of the ring.

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I sent them both back to the dressing
room, Mr. Gordon. As a result of that, I

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want you to declare me right now in
front of this TV camera, in front of the

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entire world as the ECW heavyweight
champion to prove that I am the

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00:08:30,940 --> 00:08:34,659
Sherry saw it. The whole world saw it.
Philadelphia, you witnessed it live.

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Professional wrestling as it was meant
to be. Ass kicking.

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Take no names.

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Beat the hell out of whoever's in front
of you.

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Terry Funk, I smashed your knee to
oblivion. When I took you with that

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outside the ring, even the crazy man
Sabu and his people looked and they

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oh my God, it's the end of an era.

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Finally put to rest the Funk family.

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00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,810
I don't give a... You keep your mouth
shut.

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00:09:01,070 --> 00:09:05,230
You keep your mouth shut. You can fire
me if you want to. You can take me out

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00:09:05,230 --> 00:09:07,790
this territory if you want to. But you
can't stop the franchise.

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00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:10,550
Some place, some time, I will be
heavyweight champion.

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00:09:11,210 --> 00:09:17,070
Shane Douglas was pissed off at WCW and
Ric Flair and would say anything on the

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mic and vent his frustration with the
industry.

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If you watch early ECW, Paul Heyman was
pissed off and hell -bent to take down

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WCW.

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had left WCW. He was actually supposed
to come here and do the whole Paul E.

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Dangerously in WWE, but he was just
waiting.

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00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,880
And then he started with the whole ECW
thing.

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Paul had painted Eric Bischoff and WCW
as the

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most vile people and organization that
you could ever...

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00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,040
Ever work for it. You were joining the
Tally band if you went and joined up

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00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,920
WCW and Eric Bischoff. Eric Bischoff was
Satan.

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00:10:01,660 --> 00:10:03,580
I didn't like them and they didn't like
me.

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00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:06,700
I didn't like the way I was treated.
They didn't like the way I treated them

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00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:10,660
back. I pretty much told them to go fuck
themselves when they were treating

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00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:11,660
people like shit.

145
00:10:12,220 --> 00:10:13,580
And I don't think they enjoyed that.

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00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,380
This was during the Bill Watts
administration.

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00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,860
And Bill wasn't really a people person.

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00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:25,300
I think why he started ECW was because
he hated WCW so much. He didn't have any

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beef with WWE.

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He hated WCW and everything that they
stood for.

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00:10:31,380 --> 00:10:34,440
He had a bitter contract dispute with
them.

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They screwed him over, and he wanted to
do nothing but take them down.

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00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,520
Look at this unbelievably hot rookie
here, Tommy Dreamer.

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00:10:46,860 --> 00:10:48,420
I showed up with my bags.

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And Taz was booked, and I got to work,
and I was employed for the entire time,

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for seven or eight years.

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That

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was

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00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:09,140
my heart, and that was my passion.

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All I ever wanted to do was wrestle.

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I never wanted to pitch in Game 7 of the
World Series. I never wanted to throw

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the touchdown in the Super Bowl. I just
wanted to wrestle and, you know, be a

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professional wrestler.

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00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,520
Look at these fans.

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They're actually applauding Tommy
Dreamer. Can you believe it? In this,

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00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,460
vicious, hardcore wrestling city in the
world, Philadelphia?

167
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,120
Unbelievable.

168
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,920
This fan man, deep in his training
regimen, they're doing some 12 -ounce

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00:11:41,790 --> 00:11:45,510
As much as anyone else, Sandman was the
embodiment of extreme championship

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00:11:45,510 --> 00:11:52,290
wrestling. He was a huge part of our
shows. The whole music entrance and

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the cigarettes and drinking beer and
smashing the beer can until he bleeds

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00:11:56,430 --> 00:12:00,690
the head before he ever starts the
match. His matches became secondary.

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He was just a tough guy looking for a
fight.

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00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:07,110
And people followed him.

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00:12:07,510 --> 00:12:09,110
And there's Tommy Dreamer!

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00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:10,560
Sandman misses!

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00:12:10,580 --> 00:12:12,180
Dreamer unloads and a Sandman!

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00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,840
Tommy Dreamer to the rescue!

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00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,099
All right!

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00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,240
Women just can't Tommy Dreamer!

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00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,440
Around that time, Michael Fay was
convicted of a crime in Singapore, and

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a big deal here in the United States. He
was going to get caned, and how could

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00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:28,580
America let someone get caned?

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00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,780
We had the Sandman who walked around,
and he was drinking beer and smoking

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cigarettes, coming to the ring.

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00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,360
In the early stages of ECW, I was
labeled a pretty boy.

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And Paul came up with the idea of a
Singapore Cane match.

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And the loser of the match had to get
fiended.

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And I lost.

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00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:52,100
Oh, I don't want to watch this.

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00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:53,340
I can't look.

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00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,520
The first time he hit me, boom, I went
down. The place cheered.

193
00:12:56,740 --> 00:13:00,240
The second time he hit me, the place
cheered again.

194
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,580
The third time, he hit me so hard.

195
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,180
they could start seeing my back start to
bleed.

196
00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:10,320
Dreamer has been busted open. He's
bleeding across his back.

197
00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:14,660
I remember the first couple of shots.

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00:13:14,860 --> 00:13:16,040
They hurt like hell.

199
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:22,000
And then after that, adrenaline kicks
in. No matter how much I hurt and really

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00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,740
wanted to stay down, there was nothing
that would have made me.

201
00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:27,760
Thank you, sir. May I have another?

202
00:13:29,540 --> 00:13:31,640
And Dreamer opts for the king.

203
00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:39,050
I remember fans telling me to stay down.
I remember two girls crying, just

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00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:41,050
telling me to stay down. People I didn't
know.

205
00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:43,830
Oh, my God!

206
00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,430
I just kept getting up and getting up,
and it was brutal.

207
00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:55,630
And ECW preyed on human emotion with a
lot of angles.

208
00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:58,370
Polk made that Rocky type of story.

209
00:13:58,650 --> 00:14:02,230
I remember facing off with the Sandman
after that.

210
00:14:10,730 --> 00:14:14,470
And his lip was quivering because it was
so emotional, and he was like, oh, my

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00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:17,390
God, you know, we're living this great
moment right now.

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00:14:22,890 --> 00:14:26,490
That was a turning point in my career,
but it was also a turning point in ECW

213
00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:30,150
where it was a form of redemption
through violence for me and for the

214
00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:36,650
It's the best drug in the world, that
rush from the fans.

215
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:40,020
It's amazing.

216
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,960
And that's what always kept me going
pretty much with fans.

217
00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:49,840
We did a lot of things with the Sandman
and Tommy Dreamer that broke a lot of

218
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,740
taboos. We did the thing where Tommy
Dreamer had a cane match with the

219
00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:59,120
and Dreamer knocked the cigarette into
Sandman's eye and then cane Sandman in

220
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,200
the other eye. And Sandman was blind and
we tore down the dressing room wall.

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00:15:05,060 --> 00:15:08,320
And you saw both the good guys and the
bad guys.

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00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:10,510
commingling over this hurt wrestler.

223
00:15:11,170 --> 00:15:14,090
And Tommy Dreamer saying, I'm sorry, I
didn't mean to hurt you.

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00:15:14,890 --> 00:15:20,210
Which was really taboo back then.

225
00:15:22,530 --> 00:15:29,370
And then the Sandman, to his credit,
stayed at home for a month so that

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00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:30,390
saw him around town.

227
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:34,170
So that he didn't say, yeah, they're
doing their thing when a Sandman's

228
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:35,310
He stayed home.

229
00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:37,850
He never left his house. He never
answered his door.

230
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:43,020
His wife answered the door. It was
unheard of back then for somebody to

231
00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:44,420
the storyline to this degree.

232
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:51,300
And then the Sandman was going to retire
and came out to the arena blind and

233
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:58,160
peeled away the blindfold and came the
crap out of Tommy Dreamer.

234
00:16:08,270 --> 00:16:14,370
And it was one of the most shocking
moments of the early days of ECW. And

235
00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:17,790
one of the loudest, because boy, did
that hook the audience.

236
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:28,590
When ECW was first starting, there was a
lot more gimmicks in professional

237
00:16:28,590 --> 00:16:31,470
wrestling. It was more garnered towards
children.

238
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:34,390
ECW was mainly that.

239
00:16:34,910 --> 00:16:40,910
18 to 34, male demographic of
testosterone -filled ass -kicking,

240
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:47,870
hot women, and there was also a lot of
blood, which was a no -no in WWE and

241
00:16:48,350 --> 00:16:52,690
And also, there was a lot of women
getting their butt kicked from men.

242
00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:55,630
You know, and WWE didn't care.

243
00:16:56,130 --> 00:17:00,590
WCW didn't care. The wrestling fans and
the Internet and all that, well, some

244
00:17:00,590 --> 00:17:02,490
people were offended, but everyone was
talking.

245
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:09,400
You can respect the contributions of Lou
Fez and Buddy Rogers and Pat O 'Connor

246
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,619
and Ric Flair and all those people that
preceded before you, but there comes a

247
00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:16,960
time where that era is dead.

248
00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:21,099
Nobody wanted to see that type of
wrestling anymore. They wanted something

249
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:22,280
extreme.

250
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:26,680
And off to the races we went.

251
00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:39,240
I came to ECW from WCW as part of like a
little bit of a talent exchange.

252
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:45,020
There was a dream match that real
hardcore wrestling fans wanted to see

253
00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:49,840
as Cactus Jack against Sabu, who was
their top guy and doing some really

254
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,020
revolutionary things.

255
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,160
And WCW was attempting to establish a
relationship with them, and they thought

256
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,500
sending me over for this dream match
would be a good way to kind of further

257
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:02,500
relationship.

258
00:18:03,460 --> 00:18:10,280
Cactus Jack McFoley came to ECW the
first time for a lawsuit between ECW and

259
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,220
WCW and was part of a settlement or an
agreement that was made.

260
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,420
Mick and I always wanted to do business
together, and we worked with each other

261
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:19,419
in WCW.

262
00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:23,120
And then when ECW came along and there
was an opportunity for us to work

263
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,600
together, we both jumped all over it.

264
00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:29,200
It's your friend Cactus Jack bringing
you tidings from World Championship

265
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,000
Wrestling. What this belt here says is
that Cactus Jack is one half of the best

266
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,740
tag team champion in the world.

267
00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:40,580
And it means a lot to me. These people
say it's the first belt, it's the first

268
00:18:40,580 --> 00:18:45,540
title that Cactus Jack has had in a long
time, and indeed it is very dear to me.

269
00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:47,660
Not anymore!

270
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,400
Not anymore. You might think it's nice
for Cactus Jack to come in, give one of

271
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,140
the performances of his life, lose, and
walk away seeing I still got a title.

272
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:00,080
But it's not true. Bang, bang.

273
00:19:00,540 --> 00:19:05,540
Because tonight, I lost the three titles
that I'd held for the past five years.

274
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:12,100
Most suicidal wrestler, ugliest
wrestler, and Jack Kevorkian's favorite

275
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:13,100
wrestler.

276
00:19:13,550 --> 00:19:18,670
I got a lot of heat for spitting on the
WCW tag belts. I still maintain that

277
00:19:18,670 --> 00:19:22,970
people in charge would not have been so
upset, Ric Flair in particular, if

278
00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:26,410
they'd actually seen the interview
instead of just hearing about it. It

279
00:19:26,410 --> 00:19:27,289
what I was doing.

280
00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:32,430
I was saying the tag team belt was
important to me, but not as important as

281
00:19:32,430 --> 00:19:36,790
pride, which I felt like I had lost that
night at the ECW arena. I was told,

282
00:19:36,850 --> 00:19:41,390
hey, help these guys out. And I wanted
to help them out not only with what I

283
00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:43,250
could do in the ring, but with what I
could do on the mic.

284
00:19:43,550 --> 00:19:48,310
And I thought Sabu deserved to be
established as a top guy, and I thought

285
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:49,770
what I could to make that happen.

286
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:51,350
And there goes Sabu!

287
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:56,950
Mikey Whitbrook was part of our ring
crew.

288
00:19:57,730 --> 00:20:01,670
And these kids worked on the ring crew
for free as long as they could fly

289
00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:03,550
the ring a little bit and just be
noticed.

290
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:09,230
And we noticed Mikey Whitbrook, and he
was 19 years old, and he would take a

291
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:11,490
bump, and he had such sympathy.

292
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:15,880
And so we asked him if he'd like to
wrestle. And he said, oh, my God, it's

293
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,540
dream to wrestle. And he was trained,
and so we put him in the ring. And the

294
00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:21,380
key was we never gave him an offensive
maneuver.

295
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,480
Mikey Whitbrick just taking the beating
of his life. I've never seen this kid

296
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,920
land a punch, a shot, a kick, anything
on anybody ever.

297
00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:42,340
The next thing you know, he'd come out
and the audience would just explode.

298
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,920
And people fell in love with him.

299
00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:46,980
And here you see the upset of the year.

300
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:53,900
One, two, and three. And just like that,
we had new ECW Tag Team

301
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:54,900
Champions.

302
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,900
Do you believe in miracles?

303
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,640
Mikey, the public enemy, is real, real
mad. You know what that means?

304
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,500
It means I'm going to die.

305
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,640
He likes it.

306
00:21:21,140 --> 00:21:24,780
Mikey really, really likes it.

307
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,700
He took the best beatings of anybody
you'd ever seen. And people fell in love

308
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:36,600
with him. We needed to do something that

309
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,880
separated us from the old school of the
business.

310
00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:46,230
And our main singles wrestler was the
franchise Shane Douglas.

311
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:54,070
And Shane was in the tournament in the
ECW arena to crown the new NWA

312
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:55,070
heavyweight champion.

313
00:21:55,650 --> 00:21:59,150
And we knew that the NWA was everything
we wanted to get away from.

314
00:21:59,430 --> 00:22:02,390
Old school, old mentality.

315
00:22:03,550 --> 00:22:07,250
And we wanted to shake everything and
everybody up.

316
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:31,210
As the new ECW heavyweight champion of
the

317
00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:32,210
world.

318
00:24:32,990 --> 00:24:37,970
Shane Douglas declaring himself ECW
world champion.

319
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:42,930
We have set out to change the face of
professional wrestling.

320
00:24:44,130 --> 00:24:47,430
So tonight, let the new era begin.

321
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:52,810
The era of the sport of professional
wrestling.

322
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,000
When Shane grabbed that belt and threw
it down, it was crazy.

323
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,960
And I couldn't believe what was going
on. Nobody knew. I guess Paul and Shane

324
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,360
were the only people who knew. When
Shane Douglas took the NWA World's

325
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,620
Heavyweight Championship with its
lineage dating back to 1905 with George

326
00:25:32,620 --> 00:25:38,060
Hackenschmidt and Jim Lundis and threw
it down and proclaimed the Eastern

327
00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:43,420
Championship Wrestling title the Extreme
Championship Wrestling World's

328
00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:46,440
Heavyweight Championship, it ushered
in...

329
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,640
the era that we were looking to channel.

330
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:57,780
Just watching it as a wrestling fan,
what I thought it was, was Paul Heyman,

331
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,420
Todd Gordon, Shane Douglas, everybody
who was a part of Eastern Championship

332
00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:07,280
Wrestling at the time, trying to
basically break away from the tradition

333
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,320
National Wrestling Alliance.

334
00:26:08,740 --> 00:26:11,200
And that is one that probably...

335
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:15,510
Most historic moments I've ever
witnessed in my career. It was

336
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:20,190
to see that happen and to see all the
fallout between Dennis Carl Lewis and

337
00:26:20,190 --> 00:26:21,089
NWA board.

338
00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:22,270
What happened tonight was a disgrace.

339
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:26,010
I'm disappointed in it. Shane Douglas is
the NWA champion.

340
00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:29,050
He threw the belt down. He had no right
to do that.

341
00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:33,830
And Paul Heyman and ECW, which basically
just made ECW even stronger afterwards.

342
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:39,650
Well, as of noon today, I have folded
NWA Eastern Championship Wrestling.

343
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,480
In its place will be ECW, Extreme
Championship Wrestling.

344
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,000
And we recognize the franchise Shane
Douglas as our World Heavyweight

345
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,600
I don't know if ECW could have been born
anywhere but Philadelphia.

346
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:07,980
Because Philadelphia had this rabid
audience that both...

347
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:15,170
WWE and WCW fought for the NWA at the
time back in the 1980s. WWE would

348
00:27:15,170 --> 00:27:20,490
run the Spectrum with Hulk Hogan, and
NWA would run the Civic Center with Ric

349
00:27:20,490 --> 00:27:22,990
Flair, and they'd go head -to -head on
the same day.

350
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:29,250
So from the ashes of a wrestling
business that had fallen onto its ass

351
00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:35,190
1993 rose this phoenix of a promotion
that people were getting behind.

352
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:38,680
And people could point to and say, My
hometown promotion.

353
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,260
And then people from New York started
coming down and people from Pittsburgh

354
00:27:42,260 --> 00:27:46,100
started coming over and people from New
Jersey started filtering in and people

355
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:47,740
from Baltimore started coming up.

356
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,160
And that's when it just started to
really grow.

357
00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:35,350
Towards the end of 94 into 95, that's
when Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Dean

358
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:40,910
Malenko all came in, and we were then
known as, oh, my God, you have some

359
00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:46,670
wrestlers there. Two Colts Scorpio, Ron
Simmons, and it was just a place to

360
00:28:46,670 --> 00:28:47,670
watch.

361
00:28:47,890 --> 00:28:52,050
Coming to ECW, I felt I was definitely
bringing something different because,

362
00:28:52,050 --> 00:28:55,530
know, there's a lot of the guys that
were slamming people through tables and

363
00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:57,310
hitting them with chairs and
candlesticks and all this.

364
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,160
And I was going out there and just
wrestling. They had me and I was with

365
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,140
the time and Eddie. And we were like
straight wrestlers. So that was very

366
00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:08,560
different, which was appealing to the
fans.

367
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,220
The fans loved it. You know, it was
great because these are hardcore fans

368
00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:17,100
wanted to see blood and guts and pans.

369
00:29:17,940 --> 00:29:20,700
Paul gave us the time to go out there
and wrestle.

370
00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:24,680
You know, and Paul Heyman gave me the
opportunity.

371
00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:26,900
They took a chance and it worked.

372
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,420
They brought a style that was different
than tape fist and barbed wire baseball

373
00:29:33,420 --> 00:29:39,740
bats and brawls all over the arena. They
brought a pure wrestling ethic to ECW

374
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:45,240
that, again, helped us expand our
audience because we didn't just have the

375
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,960
violence and the tables and the chaos.
We also had the best wrestling that you

376
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,080
could find anywhere else.

377
00:29:52,490 --> 00:29:57,390
And that was a necessary, necessary
component into building the ECW

378
00:29:58,590 --> 00:30:02,690
ECW was counterculture. It was cutting
edge.

379
00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:09,170
It was fan oriented. We wanted it to
look more like a reality based product

380
00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:13,150
where, you know, all of a sudden the
spot happened, you run around the corner

381
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:15,130
and you catch it, you know, more
excitement.

382
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:19,250
There was no way to compete with the
production values that Ted Turner or

383
00:30:19,250 --> 00:30:20,250
McMahon could afford.

384
00:30:20,940 --> 00:30:24,500
They had million -dollar, multi -million
-dollar budgets. We didn't.

385
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,020
We had a very simple philosophy when it
came to our wrestlers.

386
00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:30,280
Accentuate the positives.

387
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:31,960
Hide the negatives.

388
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Well, if the negative is that we don't
have the budget to compete with WWE and

389
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,300
WCW on lighting and pyro, why go there?

390
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:42,580
Hide it.

391
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,440
Accentuate the positives. Best
interviews.

392
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:51,750
Most action, wildest brawls, best
wrestling, highest flying

393
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:54,550
these different things that we could do
better than everybody else.

394
00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:56,090
We're going to accentuate that.

395
00:30:57,010 --> 00:30:58,710
Why be second best at anything?

396
00:30:59,170 --> 00:31:04,230
Why not say, screw the lights, screw the
pyro? Here it is, down and dirty. It's

397
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:05,230
all about the presentation.

398
00:31:05,690 --> 00:31:09,130
It's all about the audience's
participation in the show.

399
00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:13,510
They had the chance to boo, and we leave
it in.

400
00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:17,560
We leave in everything as opposed to
trying to disguise it.

401
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,800
And I think that's what really gave the
product its alternative edge, where,

402
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:25,920
hey, listen, we make mistakes.

403
00:31:26,820 --> 00:31:32,220
We fuck up, and that's what it is. And
when we have to go and try to disguise

404
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:33,220
that, why?

405
00:31:33,540 --> 00:31:35,600
It happened, and everyone knows it
happened.

406
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:40,070
If anything ever went wrong, we went
public and we said, that's not

407
00:31:40,430 --> 00:31:43,890
Where a wrestler injures himself, they
just write him off the storyline. We

408
00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:48,350
public on TV and said, hey, look, Benoit
broke, you know, Sabu's neck. And we'd

409
00:31:48,350 --> 00:31:52,530
slow it and we'd show the telestrator
how the impact and all this other stuff.

410
00:31:52,730 --> 00:31:56,010
And everything that went wrong, we
showed the fans respect.

411
00:31:59,450 --> 00:32:04,290
The audience reaction is what we strived
for. It was the concept.

412
00:32:04,940 --> 00:32:06,240
It was the strategy.

413
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,600
Let's give the audience something they
can believe in and get into and be part

414
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,260
of to such a degree that when they
leave, they know they are part of the

415
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,000
They were extremely interactive with the
product, and they loved that part of

416
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,340
it. I mean, they were involved with the
show, and that's what it was about.

417
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,680
Kind of almost like a cult atmosphere at
UCW, not only in the locker room and in

418
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,289
the back.

419
00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:32,650
but in the crowd as well. You felt that
you were part of something special, and

420
00:32:32,650 --> 00:32:33,629
it was something special.

421
00:32:33,630 --> 00:32:38,130
The fans at an ECW show were as much a
part of the show as the wrestlers, if

422
00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:41,730
more. They knew they can come, and they
felt like part of the show. We made them

423
00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:45,790
feel as important as we were. Probably
some of the greatest wrestling fans of

424
00:32:45,790 --> 00:32:46,790
all time.

425
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:49,730
They were a very unique set of fans.

426
00:32:50,030 --> 00:32:55,070
They knew everything about you from the
first day you ever stepped into a ring.

427
00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:56,990
At the time, there wasn't a lot of
internet.

428
00:32:57,270 --> 00:32:58,270
It was all tape traders.

429
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,960
And they all knew exactly who I was from
Japan, and they knew everything about

430
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,820
me, and they were very, very
knowledgeable fans.

431
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,720
I tell you, they were more creative than
some of the stuff we did. The fans were

432
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,600
really entertaining in their own way.
The audience could make a wrestler a

433
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,600
superstar. They loved the wrestlers, and
they cheered for who they loved, and

434
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,180
they booed for who they hated, and they
were passionate about it. The wrestlers

435
00:33:20,180 --> 00:33:21,400
appreciated that as well.

436
00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:26,660
That audience could take a nobody and
make them like that, a star.

437
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,000
And, of course, if they turned their
backs on you, they knew that person

438
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:31,739
going to last.

439
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:36,820
We wrestled in arenas that sometimes, I
swear to you, were 105, 110 degrees, no

440
00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:37,599
air conditioning.

441
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,080
And those fans would pack that arena wet
and then stick it on top of each other,

442
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,160
and they didn't care.

443
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:45,900
And they came because they knew they
were going to get a compelling,

444
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:52,400
entertaining three-, four -hour show.
And that's what we gave them every

445
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,400
time.

446
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:57,770
The fans of ECW actually have their own
fans.

447
00:33:58,350 --> 00:34:03,310
Fans that sat in the front row at the
Philly ECW Arena dressed the same way

448
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:07,310
every time. You'd always see the hat
guy, we called him that, the straw hat.

449
00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:11,810
Every show that we did at the arena,
you'd see the same people just about in

450
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:12,810
same seats.

451
00:34:12,889 --> 00:34:17,110
They were truly, truly loyal to the ECW
Arena.

452
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,780
They had to be the wildest bunch of fans
I think I've ever performed in front

453
00:34:21,780 --> 00:34:28,280
of. The energy that like 2 ,000 people
had would fill the arena like 20 ,000

454
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,280
people.

455
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:35,139
They knew a lot about wrestling and what
went into having good matches.

456
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,600
And while they could be very
appreciative of a good match, they could

457
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,600
downright brutal.

458
00:34:40,219 --> 00:34:44,340
on a match that wasn't so good. They
were bloodthirsty. They actually bought

459
00:34:44,340 --> 00:34:48,139
things to the ring, to the shows, to
give to the wrestlers.

460
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:53,179
In the early days of ECW, we used to
have bring -your -own -weapons matches.

461
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:54,980
Fans would bring me weapons.

462
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,340
No matter what you brought in, we would
use it.

463
00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:11,210
Frying pans, oars, all sorts of, you
know, weapons for the wrestlers to hit

464
00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:12,210
themselves with.

465
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:18,450
Girls used to do a thing where the fans
would just hold up their chairs, and I

466
00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:21,150
would just take the guy's head and keep
wearing it, and the fans would hold it.

467
00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:24,050
I'd be knocking down fans, and they
would just love it. They were all part

468
00:35:24,050 --> 00:35:24,999
the show.

469
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,380
You look in the crowd, and almost
everybody's wearing a black t -shirt.

470
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:32,620
look more like the crowd that would be
at a rock and roll concert, you know,

471
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,420
screaming their heads off, that are
there screaming you. And they're just

472
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:41,060
waiting for wrestlers' lips. They can
say, you effed up, you effed up. It's

473
00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:45,500
of their deal, and they're just so into
it. They like to see people get hurt.

474
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:47,380
They also like to see good wrestling.

475
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:49,940
The fans in ECW definitely got their
money's worth.

476
00:35:50,660 --> 00:35:51,660
The fans.

477
00:35:52,170 --> 00:35:54,550
respected the hell out of every single
wrestler.

478
00:35:54,770 --> 00:35:58,710
They appreciated everybody's hard work.
They were so into everything he did. I

479
00:35:58,710 --> 00:36:03,910
remember one night watching at ECW
Arena, Bam Bam Bigelow took Spike Dudley

480
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:07,750
pressed him over his head, threw him
into the crowd. At a normal wrestling

481
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:11,690
event, the crowd would have spread out
and just let him hit the concrete. They

482
00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:14,790
caught him and then body -surfed him
around the building.

483
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,220
The audience was the story. The audience
interaction was ECW. It was our

484
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:26,220
concept.

485
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:32,740
It's what made us different. We had the
rabid, loyal, cult -like fans.

486
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,640
Saturday morning at 9 a .m., there would
be 300 fans in the parking lot waiting

487
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,640
for the 8 o 'clock show to open the
door.

488
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,880
They were incredibly smart.

489
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,760
They were all on the internet trying to
find out whatever they could about the

490
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,840
guys, the ins and outs, the working.
They were responsible for the whole

491
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,840
taking off.

492
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:54,760
Still, I hear those in my head, ECW,
ECW.

493
00:36:54,980 --> 00:37:00,920
The fans never let me forget it. Every
time I walked out of that curtain,

494
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:01,980
always chant ECW.

495
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,940
I think that's the greatest thing with
the fans have always been to me, is

496
00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:07,080
appreciate for all they did.

497
00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:12,400
For the company, they never let me
forget it, and I never will. This is the

498
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:13,400
Arena!

499
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:25,920
From the Bowery, this is Raven!

500
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:32,760
I love the Raven character, and the
Raven character motivated me.

501
00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:35,740
It inspired me to be more creative.

502
00:37:41,330 --> 00:37:47,750
He could do anything that I imagined,
and I had a performer that would

503
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:52,870
grasp it and embrace it and have a
passion for it, the likes of which I'd

504
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:55,210
seen before and may never see again.

505
00:37:56,430 --> 00:38:03,050
Tommy Dreamer, who has fought so hard to
achieve respect as a hardcore wrestler,

506
00:38:03,250 --> 00:38:08,080
cannot go on. With his career, he is
obsessed with beating Raven.

507
00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:14,620
The feud between me and Raven was
probably one of the best feuds in ECW

508
00:38:14,620 --> 00:38:18,000
for the simple fact of I never beat him.

509
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:24,460
For three years, I never beat him. And
every time I'd come so close, I would

510
00:38:24,460 --> 00:38:28,840
somehow just not pull it out.

511
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:33,790
Some punk that I've known since I'm 12
years old won't get out of my life. I

512
00:38:33,790 --> 00:38:36,590
can't get my hand raised, no matter how
much I beat his ass.

513
00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:43,270
We went to summer camp together as kids,
and I was a high school jock who got

514
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:47,890
along with everyone. He was an outcast,
and he came back to get his revenge on

515
00:38:47,890 --> 00:38:53,150
me. He brought in a fat girl from camp
who used to like me, and she came back

516
00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:56,890
a Playboy playmate, as in Beulah
McGillicuddy, and she wanted her revenge

517
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:05,190
Tommy had never been accepted by the
audience.

518
00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:09,450
And Tommy went like this, and he did
Raven's pose, and he tilted his head

519
00:39:09,550 --> 00:39:14,370
and the audience started chanting, he's
hardcore, because they had been riding

520
00:39:14,370 --> 00:39:19,350
Tommy and riding Tommy, and finally they
took him in and accepted him.

521
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:26,170
Paul had allowed myself and Raven a lot
of creative freedom, which

522
00:39:26,170 --> 00:39:28,870
is a blessing.

523
00:39:30,299 --> 00:39:33,920
because a lot of times you're just told
this is what you have to do. Here's

524
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:35,980
someone telling you, what do you want to
do?

525
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,600
You're like, what?

526
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,360
It was Raven and Dreamer, but then we'd
start incorporating other people like

527
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:48,180
the Stephen Richards, like the Blue Me,
Bula McGillicuddy, the Pitbulls, Brian

528
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:53,900
Lee, and so many things spurned off of
that, and so many people's lives were

529
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:54,900
affected by it.

530
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,460
went on, Sabu and I, we ended up being
partners and we won the tag team title.

531
00:40:20,140 --> 00:40:21,740
Sabu and I did not get along.

532
00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:26,240
I couldn't stand him and he couldn't
stand me. And that's the gospel truth.

533
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:33,020
Pat and Sabu, this is a view. You can
feel the hatred and it's only going to

534
00:40:33,020 --> 00:40:36,780
intensify. I was really angry with Sabu
when he left.

535
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:43,960
What happened was Sabu and I were going
into a big match as partners and Sabu

536
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,540
I told me the week before that he was
being booked in Japan.

537
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:54,380
Make a long story short, we get to the
ECW Arena and Sabu didn't show up. So

538
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:56,580
right before the show started, the fans
were filing in.

539
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:03,720
Paul Heyman had me walk to the ring with
him. And 9 -1 -1, who was like Paul's

540
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,500
bodyguard type of guy, went in the ring
and publicly fired Sabu.

541
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:09,940
And that was the real deal.

542
00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:17,120
One member of our trustee room gave us
such a commitment and decided that

543
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:23,760
because he was offered more money on a
weekly basis, that he will not waste

544
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,220
you for what you paid his fee.

545
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:33,420
And he decided not to give me the
courtesy of a phone call when he swore

546
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:39,880
God on Sunday night before we all went
into production to give you last Tuesday

547
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:40,880
night.

548
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,980
Paul never lied to the fans.

549
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,320
He lied to the wrestlers, but he never
lied to the fans.

550
00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:10,060
Anything that the internet or any
magazine or story that got out,

551
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:12,220
Paul, a lot of times, would address.

552
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:16,240
And he would do it by going to the ring
and telling them.

553
00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:21,080
From 1995, it was Fort Lauderdale,
Florida, at the War Memorial.

554
00:42:21,660 --> 00:42:22,840
It was a tag team match.

555
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:28,840
It was myself and Eddie Guerrero versus
Dean Malenko and Two Cold Scorpio. And

556
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,340
Scorpio and Malenko were taking it to me
pretty good, and I was trying to tag in

557
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:33,360
Eddie, and I couldn't get to Eddie.

558
00:42:33,820 --> 00:42:37,080
The next thing you know, they gave me a
spike pile driver. Malenko came off the

559
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,340
second rope, grabbed my boots.

560
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,760
drove my boots down while Scorpio had me
up for the pile driver, and boom.

561
00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:47,860
I just didn't get a chance to protect
myself, and I landed right on my

562
00:42:47,860 --> 00:42:50,560
and just jacked my whole neck back, and
that was it.

563
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,980
And I was out for a year.

564
00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:57,320
When Taz broke his neck in Florida, he
finished his match, and he just kept on

565
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,140
saying, damn, my neck is hurt.

566
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:06,300
I walked him into the hospital, and we
would always travel together, and they

567
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:07,740
asked him, how'd you get in here?

568
00:43:08,060 --> 00:43:09,060
He's like, I walked.

569
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:11,940
And they're like, there's no way you
walked in here.

570
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,540
And he's like, yeah, I did. I walked in
here.

571
00:43:14,780 --> 00:43:16,560
And they're like, well, sir, you have a
broken neck.

572
00:43:17,060 --> 00:43:23,440
I was out for actually about nine
months. And Paul paid me every single

573
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,700
our agreement and my guarantee.

574
00:43:25,140 --> 00:43:26,720
I didn't have no contract with the man.

575
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,500
I had a handshake with the guy.

576
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,200
And he stuck to that.

577
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,540
And I will never, ever forget that.

578
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,460
Paul was loyal to the crew. The crew
remained loyal to Paul.

579
00:43:54,089 --> 00:44:00,950
I don't know that the camera or anything
I can say can convey and

580
00:44:00,950 --> 00:44:07,870
capture the feeling in this arena
tonight. The overwhelming emotion which

581
00:44:07,870 --> 00:44:10,770
is overtaking everyone in this building.

582
00:44:12,070 --> 00:44:18,390
I think ECW started to get noticed by
WWE and WCW during the

583
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:21,910
fight on Monday night and they needed
more talent.

584
00:44:22,430 --> 00:44:24,690
ECW was the first victim of the Monday
Night War.

585
00:44:24,910 --> 00:44:27,470
Oh, in August 1995,

586
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:35,150
WCW stole Chris Benoit and Eddie
Guerrero and Dean Malenko all in one

587
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:41,970
swoop. I need to point out that one
man's raid is another company's

588
00:44:42,370 --> 00:44:48,110
We never raided anybody. We never raided
the WWE despite...

589
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,240
Everybody's opinion to the contrary.

590
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,980
We never raided ECW. We never raided
anybody.

591
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,840
I mean, when you think about it, did
Vince McMahon raid all the local

592
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,240
territories when he accumulated talent
that made a decision that they would

593
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:06,240
rather work for Vince McMahon as he was
expanding his national territory as

594
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,860
opposed to working for local promoters?
Was that a raid?

595
00:45:09,220 --> 00:45:13,160
Certainly not in Vince McMahon's mind or
certainly not in the minds of the

596
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,580
people that work at WWE currently.

597
00:45:15,390 --> 00:45:16,570
Or the fans of WWE.

598
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:17,950
Or, for that matter, mine.

599
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:24,790
Did some talent leave ECW and come to
WCW? Of course they did. Because, A,

600
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:28,450
probably weren't getting paid, and they
had to in order to pay their bills and

601
00:45:28,450 --> 00:45:34,170
feed their families. And, B, they
recognized that WCW was a much stronger,

602
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:39,910
more secure, much larger international
platform for them to apply their trade.

603
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:44,150
Did they make that choice to come to
WCW? Of course they did. Did some of

604
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:45,550
make those choices to go to WWE?

605
00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:46,830
Of course they did.

606
00:45:46,990 --> 00:45:52,770
But that's not a raid, despite what Paul
Heyman and others would have you think.

607
00:45:53,850 --> 00:45:56,390
Eric Bischoff is full of shit.

608
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,320
And much like a lot of other people,
never gave ECW the credit that ECW

609
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,580
deserved. Eric Bischoff stole Chris
Benoit and Eddie Guerrero and Dean

610
00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:11,580
from ECW in one fell swoop. Same way he
signed Chris Jericho from ECW. Same way

611
00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:13,600
he stole the cruiserweights from ECW.

612
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,660
And it was a smart move by Eric Bischoff
to do it because he was in a

613
00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:24,400
competition with WWE and he had to have
the talent and he found them in ECW

614
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,240
before WWE had a chance. to sign him as
well. It was smart by Bischoff to do it.

615
00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:32,740
I just don't like the fact that he never
says, yo, I sold that from ECW.

616
00:46:33,020 --> 00:46:34,740
Because he did. It was blatant.

617
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,060
We sued him over it a bunch of times.

618
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:44,620
I didn't think it was the right thing to
do that we would just raid his talent

619
00:46:44,620 --> 00:46:46,760
roster and give nothing back.

620
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,460
We put Paul on the payroll because to
compensate him in some way of taking a

621
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:54,399
of the talent.

622
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,400
you know, that he had.

623
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,400
Contrary to that, of course, was Eric
Bischoff, who, you know, would take his

624
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,720
talent as well and not give him
anything.

625
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,540
So, gleefully not give him anything.

626
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,500
We knew it was on at that moment, which
is when I called Conan and got Rey

627
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:15,540
Mysterio and Psychosis and Juventud
Guerrera and decided, okay, we're going

628
00:47:15,540 --> 00:47:20,740
bring Lucha Libre, Cruiserweights, in an
extreme style to the United States and

629
00:47:20,740 --> 00:47:22,360
give them the platform to get over.

630
00:47:28,430 --> 00:47:30,570
about two guys taking it to the extreme.

631
00:47:31,570 --> 00:47:36,050
BCW was the father of Rey Mysterio as
far as bringing me into the United

632
00:47:36,050 --> 00:47:37,050
for the first time.

633
00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:42,870
Me,

634
00:47:46,930 --> 00:47:51,430
the psychosis, La Parca, Juventud
Guerrera, you took the fight out to the

635
00:47:51,430 --> 00:47:52,430
street.

636
00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:55,650
They wrestled outside.

637
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:57,330
Rey doesn't hooda con Rana.

638
00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:02,230
Fan's car, too.

639
00:48:02,350 --> 00:48:06,890
If my father wasn't a lawyer, I could
never have pulled off ECW. I got sued

640
00:48:06,890 --> 00:48:08,150
times than Martha Stewart.

641
00:48:11,710 --> 00:48:18,570
This is a combination of having all the
wrestlers and being able to

642
00:48:18,570 --> 00:48:21,710
bring out what Lucha Libre is to the
American audience.

643
00:48:31,370 --> 00:48:35,410
For all those hardcore fans, I thank
them very much. I thank Paul Henry very

644
00:48:35,410 --> 00:48:36,750
much for what he did to me.

645
00:48:45,790 --> 00:48:51,870
I'm going to be the superstar that I
always knew that I could be.

646
00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:59,430
Because there's no one, no one in ECW.

647
00:49:00,470 --> 00:49:01,630
That can stop me.

648
00:49:04,570 --> 00:49:06,270
I worked with Steve in WCW.

649
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:08,050
I was his manager.

650
00:49:08,650 --> 00:49:12,470
And then I was out of WCW. And then
Steve went on the team with Brian

651
00:49:13,150 --> 00:49:15,290
And they never really got the chance
that they deserved.

652
00:49:15,610 --> 00:49:17,990
And then Steve got fired by Eric
Bischoff over the telephone.

653
00:49:19,110 --> 00:49:21,190
Steve was home and he was pissed off
that he got fired.

654
00:49:22,050 --> 00:49:23,050
And I was lucky.

655
00:49:23,450 --> 00:49:24,770
I was the first guy to call.

656
00:49:25,950 --> 00:49:27,070
And I said, hey, what are you doing?

657
00:49:27,330 --> 00:49:29,290
Oh, goddamn kid just in at home. Got
fired.

658
00:49:31,230 --> 00:49:33,710
Really? Fucking assholes, they fired me.

659
00:49:34,490 --> 00:49:35,490
What are you going to do about it?

660
00:49:35,810 --> 00:49:36,830
I'll sit at home and drink beer.

661
00:49:37,890 --> 00:49:39,010
Well, you want to talk about it?

662
00:49:39,450 --> 00:49:42,470
Yeah, let's talk about it. You want to
talk about it on the air?

663
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:44,009
On the air?

664
00:49:44,010 --> 00:49:45,130
Yeah, you want to talk about it on the
air.

665
00:49:45,350 --> 00:49:47,090
Well, goddamn kid, how do you want me to
do that?

666
00:49:48,110 --> 00:49:49,190
I got a TV show.

667
00:49:49,970 --> 00:49:51,010
You got a grievance.

668
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:52,730
Come on up and air it.

669
00:49:53,370 --> 00:49:54,510
You're Steve Austin.

670
00:49:55,790 --> 00:49:57,190
You know, that's when you're wrong.

671
00:49:57,420 --> 00:49:58,040
Paul

672
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:09,020
Heyman

673
00:50:09,020 --> 00:50:11,200
gave him a microphone and said, here,
talk.

674
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:18,420
And he gave some of the greatest,
funniest interviews of all time because

675
00:50:18,420 --> 00:50:19,420
pissed off.

676
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:25,940
He had this idea for Monday Night Quill
with this bad wig and bongo.

677
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,080
Instead of Mongo.

678
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Right here on Monday night, a bottle of
Geritol on a pole match. First time ever

679
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,080
in the world, you're going to see all
the old codgers here in our

680
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:42,720
and they're going to be scrapping around
and using their walkers, trying to keep

681
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:44,860
the dentures in, and they're going for
it.

682
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,200
He had a strategy.

683
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:49,320
He was going to let that anger come out.
He was going to show his passion.

684
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,160
He was going to show that aggression.

685
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:57,560
He was going to be something different.
He was going to let you know how much he

686
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,560
cared.

687
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,820
Eric, I love you, man.

688
00:51:03,420 --> 00:51:08,320
Take me back because I ain't got what it
takes to get it done at ECW, man.

689
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,820
I want Achieve to be champion.

690
00:51:11,580 --> 00:51:15,580
His idea was recollecting November to
remember against Mikey Wickrick and

691
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:19,140
And then come on television and say, I
was this close to the title.

692
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,180
And God, it makes me want it.

693
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:23,670
He was so smart.

694
00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:25,070
Steve understood business.

695
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:31,710
Mikey Whipwreck, when you beat me, even
though I was damn near crippled, even

696
00:51:31,710 --> 00:51:35,910
though I hadn't rehabbed this damn arm,
and even though that was my first match

697
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:40,470
back, you still beat one of the best
wrestlers in the world, and that's the

698
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:41,470
bottom line.

699
00:51:42,350 --> 00:51:48,670
Steve understood how to articulate his
love and his desire for the business,

700
00:51:48,670 --> 00:51:49,670
therefore for the championship.

701
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,500
You know when you're holding that camera
and you're shooting a promo.

702
00:51:54,940 --> 00:51:56,960
You know when you have something
special.

703
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,220
You know when it's coming across.

704
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,920
You know when you feel it. You know that
this is great.

705
00:52:03,420 --> 00:52:07,480
And sometimes you're just looking
through the viewfinder thing.

706
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,080
Wow.

707
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,580
I always got that feeling with Steve.

708
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,560
I got that feeling with Cactus.

709
00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:17,580
I mean, the stuff that he was brilliant.

710
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,200
The stuff he just came out with was...

711
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:22,280
Where did that come from?

712
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:25,960
And it's like, wow.

713
00:52:26,380 --> 00:52:33,320
Those fans who sit there and say, he's
hardcore, he's hardcore, he's hardcore,

714
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:39,020
wouldn't piss on you if you were on
fire, you selfish son of a bitch.

715
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:48,040
Creatively speaking, I think the anti
-hardcore promos that Mick Foley did

716
00:52:49,020 --> 00:52:55,840
in 1995 were the most creative and best
performed

717
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,580
interviews in the history of this
business.

718
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,040
Bar none.

719
00:53:00,380 --> 00:53:03,180
He just gave me the mic and let me go.

720
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:08,520
And he let me get out a lot of the
frustration I had about the fan and the

721
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,160
that I thought they asked too much. He
let me put that on tape.

722
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,240
Professional wrestling.

723
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:20,240
We'll never be respected, no matter how
many teeth I lose, no matter how many

724
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:24,880
ears I lose, no matter how many brain
cells have to die.

725
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,880
And so it comes down to the point where
it's just not worth it.

726
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:35,780
It's not worth it. And Tommy Dreamer,
you've got to start looking

727
00:53:35,780 --> 00:53:41,440
at wrestling as a way to make a living.

728
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,080
Nothing more.

729
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:44,920
And nothing less.

730
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:50,340
And as long as it's strictly business,
well, you may as well be cuddled in the

731
00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:56,920
welcoming arms of world championship
wrestling because ECW fans will be the

732
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:57,920
of you.

733
00:53:58,660 --> 00:54:04,260
You see, they realized, and they were
smarter than any of us,

734
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:09,780
that they rule ECW wrestling, not us.
You can make people laugh.

735
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,380
He can make people cry.

736
00:54:11,660 --> 00:54:13,700
He can make people feel for him.

737
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:19,000
Mick Foley's a larger -than -life
person, and why would anyone ever care

738
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,140
that toothless -looking freak that he is
and how many people love the guy?

739
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:38,300
I've said some pretty outrageous things,
and to have 99 %

740
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:39,300
of you...

741
00:54:57,460 --> 00:55:04,300
I was so mad because I couldn't be in
there

742
00:55:04,300 --> 00:55:05,400
as the company was growing.

743
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:08,840
And then I started to feel better with
my neck, and I started to train harder

744
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,000
and harder. And I changed my style, and
I said to myself, I need to change. I

745
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,460
need to come back with a completely
fresh look, a completely different Taz.

746
00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:23,340
And that's when I completely, the Taz
Maniac died, and Taz was born.

747
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,980
Joey Styles was the play -by -play guy,
and I'm doing the match with him, but

748
00:55:26,980 --> 00:55:29,920
you never see me on camera. Then you
come out of the match, and the end of

749
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:34,520
match, the man who called this match
with me is named Peter Sinurcha.

750
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,020
But you know him very well.

751
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:40,460
But you know him as Taz.

752
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:47,540
Taz, becoming our ultimate fight style
persona, carried with it

753
00:55:47,540 --> 00:55:49,380
the big fight atmosphere.

754
00:55:49,620 --> 00:55:54,720
And I loved the big fight atmosphere. I
thought that that's one of the many

755
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:58,680
things that was missing in wrestling
during the mid -1990s.

756
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:33,380
the most emotional angle that we ever
did in ECW was the one involving the

757
00:56:33,380 --> 00:56:34,920
Sandman's son and Raven.

758
00:56:35,660 --> 00:56:39,520
Here's Raven, who's doing the cult deal.

759
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,320
And he's involved with the Sandman's ex
-wife, Lori Foley.

760
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:49,860
And along with Lori comes Tyler Foley,
the Sandman's eight -year -old son.

761
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:56,240
And here's the Sandman getting beat
down, beat up, and never caring.

762
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:03,100
And yet when the Sandman sees his own
son kiss Raven on the cheek and say,

763
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:09,900
I love you more than my own daddy, the
Sandman on television breaks down

764
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:14,580
and cries, openly weeps.

765
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:16,920
Now, who can't feel that?

766
00:57:17,540 --> 00:57:21,060
Hey, kid, you know the divorce was your
daddy's fault, don't you?

767
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:22,500
I know.

768
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:25,200
Hey, Sandman.

769
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:36,280
He's dressed just like his dad.

770
00:57:37,060 --> 00:57:39,220
Oh, we have been waiting to see this.

771
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,060
Oh, that's great.

772
00:57:47,220 --> 00:57:48,220
It's Raven!

773
00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:49,380
It's Raven!

774
00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:56,980
It was the most emotional angle that we
could do, that we ever did.

775
00:57:58,260 --> 00:58:00,480
Quote to Raven, never more.

776
00:59:26,090 --> 00:59:31,130
This is a concept for Stevie Richards
and the Blue Meanie and Nova to parody

777
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:32,130
NWO.

778
00:59:32,670 --> 00:59:38,790
And we had done things with the Meanie
before, and he was going to be the blue

779
00:59:38,790 --> 00:59:42,230
guy, and this was going to be the blue
world order, the BWO. That came during a

780
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:47,250
time, that was actually the climax to
all the parodies that me and the Blue

781
00:59:47,250 --> 00:59:49,970
Meanie were doing on everybody. We
started doing...

782
00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:53,350
The Fabulous Ones, which were a famous
tag team in Memphis for years.

783
00:59:53,870 --> 00:59:58,390
And Raven actually came up with the idea
to start parodying people just to

784
00:59:58,390 --> 01:00:02,610
entertain himself and entertain the
boys. And I did Baron Von Stevie, which

785
01:00:02,610 --> 01:00:03,970
a takeoff of Baron Von Raschke.

786
01:00:04,170 --> 01:00:07,250
He innovated Public Enemy yesterday last
month at WCW.

787
01:00:07,810 --> 01:00:10,910
Flyboy, Stevie Rock, and Meany Grunge.

788
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:12,990
Public Enemy?

789
01:00:13,830 --> 01:00:17,550
We were just doing a parody of the NWO
from WCW because they were the hottest

790
01:00:17,550 --> 01:00:18,550
thing back then.

791
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,200
And let's just go out there and have a
good time. And the people just started

792
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,440
chanting BWO, BWO. And everywhere we
went, the BWO just stopped.

793
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:44,760
The pregnancy angle that we did stood
out where Eula, who was Raven's

794
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,980
girlfriend, revealed that she was
pregnant.

795
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,640
Because you're Raven's girlfriend?

796
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:53,460
No, I'm pregnant.

797
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:02,700
That night was amazing because when
Raven heard that he was pregnant, he

798
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:05,760
and he blasted Stephen Richards, who was
like, oh, he's nice to Beulah.

799
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,600
And she was like, that's not him.

800
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:11,560
And then she paused for a moment and she
said, Tommy, the place lit up. And it

801
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:12,560
was like a soap opera.

802
01:01:19,340 --> 01:01:22,420
And then I hit the ring, and I beat the
crap out of Raven because he was going

803
01:01:22,420 --> 01:01:24,560
to hurt my impregnated girlfriend.

804
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,600
As I was beating him up, a fan also
handed me a blueberry pie, and I said,

805
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:39,980
with it, and I took a big bite of it,
DDT'd him, laid him out, left with the

806
01:01:39,980 --> 01:01:40,980
girl.

807
01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:46,980
It was Shane Douglas that said that
Bueller was cheating on me, and everyone

808
01:01:46,980 --> 01:01:48,540
thought it was with Raven or with
another.

809
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,860
wrestler that i'd be then feuding with
and it turned out she was cheating on me

810
01:01:52,860 --> 01:01:59,760
with kimono in ecw we did the first ever
lesbian angle in wrestling uh

811
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:05,140
we got thrown off of every television
station that we had he was not pregnant

812
01:03:23,180 --> 01:03:28,080
Vince's curiosity with ECW started at
the King of the Ring in Philadelphia

813
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,680
Mabel was crowned King of the Ring.

814
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:37,820
And the entire arena is chanting ECW
with great passion

815
01:03:37,820 --> 01:03:39,920
and anger at Vince McMahon.

816
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:57,000
I'd heard about ECW, and there's this
other wrestling organization, ECW, local

817
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,960
in New York, and I kind of dismissed it
at first, and it started making a little

818
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:02,960
bit more noise.

819
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:08,580
Vince is coming back to Philadelphia to
do mind games, and obviously we had such

820
01:04:08,580 --> 01:04:13,140
momentum at the time, it would behoove
his business to acknowledge ECW.

821
01:04:13,540 --> 01:04:19,090
It's this other brand out there, and why
not incorporate it? It wasn't. you

822
01:04:19,090 --> 01:04:23,010
know, on the same par in terms of value
or whatever, but why not incorporate it?

823
01:04:23,050 --> 01:04:25,690
Why not try to do something with it and
see where it goes?

824
01:04:26,190 --> 01:04:29,350
I wouldn't have done the same with WCW,
you know, but it was a way to broaden

825
01:04:29,350 --> 01:04:34,430
business. It's not going to help us to
be embraced and endorsed by Vince

826
01:04:34,430 --> 01:04:37,550
McMahon. It's going to help us to rebel
against Vince McMahon.

827
01:04:39,110 --> 01:04:41,290
So we came up with a way that everybody
wants.

828
01:04:54,700 --> 01:05:01,320
There is a local wrestling group here in
Philadelphia and obviously trying to

829
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,440
make a name for themselves here.

830
01:05:04,260 --> 01:05:08,040
We never were in the WWE locker room. We
would basically, during the show,

831
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,320
corral in the park a lot, ECW guys.

832
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,220
We had ECW guys sprinkled throughout the
arena because we didn't know if the WWE

833
01:05:14,220 --> 01:05:17,380
guys were going to try and jump us. We
didn't know what the deal was. Because

834
01:05:17,380 --> 01:05:21,820
was like, I don't think many people
knew, besides Mr. McMahon, what was

835
01:05:21,820 --> 01:05:22,820
happen.

836
01:05:29,770 --> 01:05:36,190
And I remember that night jumping that
guardrail and security trying to stop

837
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:41,370
And a guy who was a WWE photographer
here tried to stop me. He told me, no,

838
01:05:41,370 --> 01:05:45,610
not worth it, man. It's not worth it.
And I was instructed by my boss and by a

839
01:05:45,610 --> 01:05:46,569
couple other people.

840
01:05:46,570 --> 01:05:48,970
Anybody gets in your way, get them out
of the way.

841
01:05:49,890 --> 01:05:53,850
And I just said to the photographer, you
know, you don't want to do this. You

842
01:05:53,850 --> 01:05:56,910
don't want to do this. You know, and
shoved him out of the way and he broke

843
01:05:56,910 --> 01:05:57,910
shoulder.

844
01:06:06,830 --> 01:06:13,110
There was an incident at the ECW Arena
one time where Raven got the idea to

845
01:06:13,110 --> 01:06:16,150
crucify Sandman.

846
01:06:18,110 --> 01:06:20,430
What in God's name are they doing?

847
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:25,090
The whole time I'm doing it, actually,
me and Meany were there.

848
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:28,490
And, you know, Raven's like, yo, tie him
up, tie him up, put the cross up.

849
01:06:28,750 --> 01:06:30,290
And I'm there going, oh, this is...

850
01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:33,620
Fucked up, Meany. This is fucked up.
He's like, I know, because Meany's

851
01:06:33,620 --> 01:06:36,580
Catholic, too. So I was like, this is
bullshit, man.

852
01:06:37,340 --> 01:06:40,800
This is the most horrifying thing I've
ever seen in my life.

853
01:06:41,980 --> 01:06:45,820
And that was the one time in the ECW
arena where the fans weren't saying, you

854
01:06:45,820 --> 01:06:48,460
know, go to hell and screaming. They
were just quiet.

855
01:06:49,300 --> 01:06:51,900
You know, Raven had to go back out and
apologize to the fans.

856
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:58,120
Apparently, Todd Gordon and Paul Heyman,
by acting without their knowledge, are

857
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,180
offended at my use.

858
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,260
of religious iconography and apparently
i've offended quite a few people in the

859
01:07:04,260 --> 01:07:11,180
audience well you people

860
01:07:11,180 --> 01:07:16,640
chose to respect scott levy's privacy
when i needed a personal time and so i

861
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:21,540
choose to respect your privacy and your
religious religious beliefs and so for

862
01:07:21,540 --> 01:07:26,700
the people who i deeply offended i
apologize it was a big deal actually

863
01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:27,700
angle was in

864
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:32,880
In the arena that night, he was going to
come to ECW. Taz brought him in. He was

865
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,420
going to come in and do some stuff with
ECW.

866
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,760
I'm sitting there watching, and I saw an
episode that just completely shocked

867
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:40,760
me.

868
01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:46,120
It was a crucifixion of Sandman and
Raven and Sandman's son.

869
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:50,500
And it offended me so badly that I got
up in the middle of the show. I went

870
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:53,400
straight to Paul Heyman, and I said, I'm
leaving right now.

871
01:07:53,980 --> 01:07:59,220
I want you to send me my check. And if
I'm on TV with that crucifixion, if my

872
01:07:59,220 --> 01:08:03,460
name or my face is seen on TV on the
same program, you'll be here for my

873
01:08:03,460 --> 01:08:08,700
attorney. And he said he had no idea
this was going to happen. So I believed

874
01:08:08,700 --> 01:08:11,760
him. I figured, you know, here it's a
little more freelance wrestling, do

875
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,899
whatever they want to do. And Paul
Heyman let them, you know. But then

876
01:08:16,899 --> 01:08:20,819
wasn't sure whether to believe him or
not because Paul Heyman can do that kind

877
01:08:20,819 --> 01:08:22,160
of thing. He's very controversial.

878
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:28,260
I just remember leaving that arena so
mad and so offended that they would

879
01:08:28,260 --> 01:08:31,020
actually do something like that. He told
me he didn't know.

880
01:08:31,819 --> 01:08:36,439
You know, as a promoter, you can only
believe so much because, you know,

881
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,680
running the show. If you don't know
what's going on, then you're an idiot.

882
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,080
We were not known on a national level.

883
01:08:52,750 --> 01:08:57,290
And we wanted to be. And the only way to
do it was to do pay -per -views. We had

884
01:08:57,290 --> 01:09:00,270
to make more money. We had to bring in
more revenue to stay alive.

885
01:09:00,950 --> 01:09:05,350
Because we're going up against billion
-dollar corporations who are coming to

886
01:09:05,350 --> 01:09:06,350
hammer us.

887
01:09:06,790 --> 01:09:08,109
So we needed more ammunition.

888
01:09:08,310 --> 01:09:09,590
We needed more money for ammunition.

889
01:09:09,930 --> 01:09:13,470
We needed to pay our talent. We needed
to bring in more talent. We needed to go

890
01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:15,270
to different areas. We needed to expand.

891
01:09:15,649 --> 01:09:17,590
Because without expansion, we would have
lost everybody.

892
01:09:18,189 --> 01:09:19,510
So the audience knew this.

893
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:23,520
And the audience wanted to get us on pay
-per -view. The audience got us on New

894
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,560
York television by emailing and writing
and faxing all the New York television

895
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,680
stations. And the audience did the same
thing on pay -per -view. They rallied

896
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:35,680
together. They took up arms and they
fought for ECW because they believed in

897
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:37,580
because ECW was their promotion.

898
01:09:37,819 --> 01:09:39,300
They were our army.

899
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:44,520
We wanted national TV. We wanted pay
-per -views. We wanted sellouts

900
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,520
we go.

901
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:50,540
We wanted to be in competition with WWE
and WCW. At the time, Viewer's Choice,

902
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,779
which is now in demand, wouldn't put us
on the air because they thought we were

903
01:09:53,779 --> 01:09:56,800
real. Oh, we were like Ultimate Fight.
We had to be real.

904
01:09:57,220 --> 01:09:59,120
ECW? Oh, those guys are real.

905
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:05,100
They're not like WWE and WCW. No,
they're different. They're real, and

906
01:10:05,100 --> 01:10:08,680
a big nationwide concern about Ultimate
Fight, so we couldn't get on the air.

907
01:10:09,100 --> 01:10:12,040
putting it on pay -per -view during our
hottest period.

908
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,920
And we finally got on the air. Hugh
Pinero, the president of Request TV,

909
01:10:18,140 --> 01:10:22,460
listened to the audience. The audience
petitioned everybody to get us on the

910
01:10:22,460 --> 01:10:24,040
air, and we got on the air.

911
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:33,240
We had a show in Revere, Massachusetts,
and one

912
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:37,100
of the participants in a match

913
01:10:39,260 --> 01:10:40,340
didn't make it to the show.

914
01:10:41,140 --> 01:10:46,420
And we had a replacement on hand who
lied about his age and falsified his

915
01:10:46,420 --> 01:10:49,680
documentation. A wrestler by the name of
Axel Rodden was supposed to wrestle

916
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,980
with me in a tag team match against the
gangsters, New Jack and Mustafa.

917
01:10:53,660 --> 01:10:55,040
Axel couldn't make it that night.

918
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:56,740
This kid came in.

919
01:10:57,230 --> 01:11:01,650
And he looked like Ralph Cramden. New
Jack basically beat him up pretty bad.

920
01:11:01,850 --> 01:11:04,850
It was the most scariest thing I think
I've ever seen in the middle of the

921
01:11:05,170 --> 01:11:06,790
Lawsuits and things like that followed.

922
01:11:07,090 --> 01:11:08,590
New Jack was acquitted of everything.

923
01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:11,390
But it was a scary moment.

924
01:11:11,610 --> 01:11:12,910
We got hammered from all sides.

925
01:11:13,930 --> 01:11:18,770
And the pay -per -view networks, who
were scared of us to begin with, had all

926
01:11:18,770 --> 01:11:25,110
the ammunition they need to say, that on
Christmas Eve,

927
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,280
1996, our pay -per -view for 1997 was
canceled.

928
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,660
The audience was so mad that our pay
-per -view was pulled.

929
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:42,360
I don't think Paulie pulled back at all
after the mass transit incident that

930
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,820
happened. In terms of pushing the
envelope, Paulie always pushed the

931
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:49,360
I begged and pleaded and threatened.

932
01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:56,060
and cajoled and yelled and cried and did
everything I possibly could from one

933
01:11:56,060 --> 01:11:58,300
extreme to another to get us back on the
air.

934
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,660
And they put us back on the schedule.

935
01:12:03,340 --> 01:12:07,900
Sunday night, April 13th, 1997, at 9 p
.m.

936
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,780
Had to be on 9 p .m. Everybody else was
on 8 p .m. at the time.

937
01:12:12,330 --> 01:12:17,630
I would have taken a Wednesday night at
3 a .m. live time slot if I had to do it

938
01:12:17,630 --> 01:12:19,990
from a parking garage in the South
Bronx.

939
01:12:20,210 --> 01:12:21,350
I didn't care.

940
01:12:21,570 --> 01:12:25,770
I knew if you let us on, we'll give you
something special.

941
01:12:26,110 --> 01:12:27,470
We'll give you something different.

942
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:31,250
Hi. Welcome to Extreme Championship
Wrestling.

943
01:12:31,650 --> 01:12:32,750
I'm Joey Styles.

944
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:38,840
And it's Barely Legal Weekend, ETW's
very first pay -per -view. And to all of

945
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:43,220
our fans who always supported us and
knew we could do it, thank you.

946
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:49,220
And to all of our detractors who said we
could never do it, you're about to get

947
01:12:49,220 --> 01:12:53,220
outed. Because we know you already
bought the pay -per -view. We know

948
01:12:53,220 --> 01:12:56,400
going to have a good time. You're
wearing the Barely Legal t -shirt.

949
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:57,400
the Barely Legal poster.

950
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,920
And you're going to enjoy ETW just like
everyone else. So there.

951
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:06,340
Getting pay -per -view was humongous.
This may turn out to be the blackest day

952
01:13:06,340 --> 01:13:10,420
in the history of the World Wrestling
Federation because my challenge has been

953
01:13:10,420 --> 01:13:14,460
accepted. And the idiots from ECW are
here live tonight.

954
01:13:15,460 --> 01:13:21,860
We did some stuff with WWE to help
promote that we were going to have a pay

955
01:13:21,860 --> 01:13:25,860
-view. Yes, ECW fans are jam -packed.
They're going to have fans.

956
01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:27,300
Wait a minute.

957
01:13:42,290 --> 01:13:45,090
It was

958
01:13:45,090 --> 01:13:51,050
good for both.

959
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,000
It was good for the talent because they
got a chance to showcase their talent.

960
01:13:54,020 --> 01:13:58,380
It was good for the WWE because they got
a chance to show, you know, us. And it

961
01:13:58,380 --> 01:14:04,080
was good for ECW because, hey, what's
this? It's ECW. It brought ECW into the

962
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:05,080
mainstream.

963
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:11,460
ECW didn't have a lot of distribution as
compared to our product or WCW's

964
01:14:11,460 --> 01:14:16,160
product. Nonetheless, when we brought
one of their stars into the fold, you

965
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,690
would hear... A smattering and sometimes
more than a smattering of ECW chants.

966
01:14:23,570 --> 01:14:25,730
So there was something there.

967
01:14:26,750 --> 01:14:32,810
I think when I first found out that WWE
was co -promoting, it was no real big

968
01:14:32,810 --> 01:14:33,810
surprise.

969
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:54,620
Why is Vince McMahon and why are we in
the WWE giving this precious, this

970
01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:58,240
valuable airtime to another
organization, to our competition?

971
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,840
You know, it's funny. I don't know if
that question was ever answered. Still

972
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,020
this day, I wonder why he did that. You
ought to get down on your hands and

973
01:15:05,020 --> 01:15:08,580
knees and thank your lucky stars that
you're getting to plug a stinking pay

974
01:15:08,580 --> 01:15:10,840
-view on Monday Night Raw. Do you
understand that?

975
01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:14,300
And why Vince McMahon allows it, I'll
never know.

976
01:15:14,980 --> 01:15:17,040
He's going to help the ECW brand.

977
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:19,980
And I thought that was really good for
the business.

978
01:15:20,500 --> 01:15:27,060
It was so exciting for us because as the
revolution, ECW the revolution,

979
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:32,360
we were finally going to be able to show
everybody out there in the world that

980
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:33,360
we were legit.

981
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:38,020
I guess you could attribute it maybe to
being arrogant, cocky, self -confident

982
01:15:38,020 --> 01:15:41,240
or whatever. But they had an attitude
like they were better than the guys in

983
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,660
WWE. We really went in there as a team.

984
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,540
and as a bunch of guys believing in
ourselves and the company.

985
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,620
To me, I was thinking, man, you guys
don't realize how lucky you are to get

986
01:15:51,620 --> 01:15:54,840
be involved and to get this worldwide
exposure all of a sudden.

987
01:15:55,780 --> 01:16:02,780
The whole place

988
01:16:02,780 --> 01:16:07,320
was chanting ECW, and we did ECW -style
matches on Monday Night Raw.

989
01:16:07,620 --> 01:16:09,080
I wrestled Mikey Whipwreck.

990
01:16:09,610 --> 01:16:15,710
And Mikey and I are wrestling, and Sabu,
at the time, the Raw set was the big R

991
01:16:15,710 --> 01:16:18,270
-A -W, just huge letters that were by
the entranceway.

992
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:22,390
What happened

993
01:16:22,390 --> 01:16:29,270
was Sabu gets on top of the R, what
people don't know, and he fell off

994
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:31,650
the R onto Team Tag.

995
01:16:32,510 --> 01:16:37,250
Oh, now it's live TV, you know, which
I've never done live wrestling before.

996
01:16:38,440 --> 01:16:41,820
And it was just a funny story. He fell
off the yard. We always joke, hey, he

997
01:16:41,820 --> 01:16:43,680
fell off the yard. You know, it's an
inside joke.

998
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,220
Well, I know this will make him mad once
all over again because it made him mad

999
01:16:47,220 --> 01:16:50,380
when I first saw him. But the first
thing I remember about these guys was

1000
01:16:50,380 --> 01:16:51,380
small they were.

1001
01:16:51,700 --> 01:16:53,500
Everybody was like, like.

1002
01:16:53,980 --> 01:16:56,540
They looked like little miniature
wrestlers running around, you know, and

1003
01:16:56,540 --> 01:16:59,800
remember saying on the commentary that
night, Vince and I were doing the

1004
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:06,020
commentary, and I looked, I think it was
either Taz or, I think it was Taz, and

1005
01:17:06,020 --> 01:17:10,480
I looked at Vince and I said, he looked
a lot bigger on the Lucky Charms box.

1006
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:14,220
He looked a lot bigger on the Lucky
Charms box, you know, big man. I think

1007
01:17:14,220 --> 01:17:16,120
came and said something to me about
that.

1008
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,980
Oh, wait a minute, Taz, Taz is the king.

1009
01:17:20,620 --> 01:17:21,900
It was a great night.

1010
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:27,820
I believe Devon wrestled Tommy Dreamer
in a singles match. We wound up 3D -ing

1011
01:17:27,820 --> 01:17:32,820
Tommy Dreamer, and then the Sandman came
down and kicked all our asses and caned

1012
01:17:32,820 --> 01:17:33,820
us in the head a couple times.

1013
01:17:34,300 --> 01:17:37,940
It was great. Loved it. It was a lot of
fun, the invasion stuff. It didn't last

1014
01:17:37,940 --> 01:17:44,120
long, but it was cool. Hats off to Vince
for allowing us to do it and believing

1015
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,600
in the company enough that we can
actually come on to his show and maybe

1016
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:48,600
him out a little bit.

1017
01:17:50,189 --> 01:17:55,270
ECW invading Raw, to me, started the
whole attitude era where anything could

1018
01:17:55,350 --> 01:18:00,190
anything can happen on Raw. Just watch.
Hey, they even brought in guys from

1019
01:18:00,190 --> 01:18:01,190
another promotion.

1020
01:18:01,790 --> 01:18:08,570
And back then in 1997, the WWE didn't
have guys in the ring doing what the

1021
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:09,570
do here now.

1022
01:18:10,270 --> 01:18:15,070
WCW didn't have those type guys either.
The athletes weren't wrestling a fast

1023
01:18:15,070 --> 01:18:16,850
-paced, aggressive style.

1024
01:18:18,350 --> 01:18:22,170
And I feel Paul Heyman created that with
ECW.

1025
01:18:22,930 --> 01:18:25,890
And that was the hardcore style. That
was the extreme style.

1026
01:18:26,490 --> 01:18:29,530
And we brought that to pay -per -view in
1997, barely legal.

1027
01:18:33,370 --> 01:18:33,810
It was

1028
01:18:33,810 --> 01:18:41,850
rolling

1029
01:18:41,850 --> 01:18:45,030
the dice. I mean, we knew that we had to
score big.

1030
01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:48,460
Because if we didn't, it was going to be
the end of ECW.

1031
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:53,520
We put all the money. I mean, they put
everything on the line at this major pay

1032
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,960
-per -view. I remember how intense the
locker room was.

1033
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:02,700
Just, you could just feel it. You know,
people scared to death. They didn't know

1034
01:19:02,700 --> 01:19:06,320
what to do. They knew that, you know,
you couldn't mess up. You had to go

1035
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,640
through. You had to be on top of your
game no matter what.

1036
01:19:23,530 --> 01:19:29,150
It was the Holy Grail to us. There was
nothing that could

1037
01:19:29,150 --> 01:19:35,890
top this in our hearts because this is
what we had fought so

1038
01:19:35,890 --> 01:19:37,670
many battles for.

1039
01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:40,950
I like to say it was like a black tie
affair.

1040
01:19:42,130 --> 01:19:46,650
More people are going to be able to see
this. We've reached the Holy Grail.

1041
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,380
A lot of expectations for the first pay
-per -view from ECW.

1042
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:58,260
And it was one of those things where I
personally felt like a lot of people

1043
01:19:58,260 --> 01:20:03,740
believing when we see it. Because ECW
was just at that stage where there was a

1044
01:20:03,740 --> 01:20:06,800
lot of talk about it, you know, and they
had a lot to live up to.

1045
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:14,340
When we went on pay -per -view, Viewer's
Choice basically wanted to take control

1046
01:20:14,340 --> 01:20:15,500
of the product a little bit.

1047
01:20:15,950 --> 01:20:18,230
They wanted to put their own producer,
their own director.

1048
01:20:18,730 --> 01:20:24,390
And Pauly, to his credit, and deserves a
lot of credit for this, stood with the

1049
01:20:24,390 --> 01:20:25,790
people that brought him to the dance.

1050
01:20:27,010 --> 01:20:29,810
Ron Buffon, the director.

1051
01:20:30,390 --> 01:20:34,350
They didn't want Ron Buffon to be the
director. And at the last minute, I

1052
01:20:34,350 --> 01:20:37,190
threatened to cancel the show if they
didn't let me have my own director.

1053
01:20:38,070 --> 01:20:41,650
I was going to fight for the people that
stuck with me, and I was going to be

1054
01:20:41,650 --> 01:20:43,130
loyal to them the same way they were
loyal to me.

1055
01:20:44,300 --> 01:20:47,640
I personally have probably a little
different story about the pay -per -view

1056
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,160
because I wasn't even booked on it, and
I was very upset.

1057
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:57,320
I did feel like if this was ECW's first
chance to show the world what it was and

1058
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:01,320
if everything on this show was going to
represent what ECW stood for, I thought

1059
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:06,300
I really should be on it. I got thrown
on as a last -minute decision, and I was

1060
01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:08,000
still, at that time, offended.

1061
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,200
So it was sort of a weird position for
me because I just got there, and I'm

1062
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:13,220
working with this guy on a...

1063
01:21:13,480 --> 01:21:17,680
pretty important show in my career, and
he didn't seem to be in the best of

1064
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:18,680
spirits very often.

1065
01:21:19,220 --> 01:21:25,300
I had a little extra energy, and at the
pay -per -view, with my last storm

1066
01:21:25,300 --> 01:21:30,820
afterwards, I actually verbalized the
way that I was feeling on the

1067
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,460
because we had that artistic freedom to
do just that then, so I did.

1068
01:22:37,879 --> 01:22:43,440
Sabu and I wrestling each other at
Barely Legal was a very big moment, not

1069
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:46,580
for Sabu, not just for myself, but for
the ECW fans and for the promotion.

1070
01:22:47,460 --> 01:22:48,460
Sabu!

1071
01:22:50,220 --> 01:22:51,760
I'm going to choke you out!

1072
01:22:53,420 --> 01:22:55,100
See you on the 13th!

1073
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:03,600
For one year, just about one year
straight, Taz called out Sabu to come

1074
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:04,900
Taz mocked Sabu.

1075
01:23:10,540 --> 01:23:15,420
Taz did everything physically possible,
mentally and emotionally possible to

1076
01:23:15,420 --> 01:23:19,860
taunt Sabu, and Sabu wouldn't come out
to face me. I called him out, cursed him

1077
01:23:19,860 --> 01:23:20,860
out, did everything I can.

1078
01:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,600
Beat guys up in the ring and would call
them Sabu, the whole nine yards.

1079
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:30,540
And then finally when he came out to
look me face to face, well, the lights

1080
01:23:30,540 --> 01:23:35,320
out first, and the lights came on, and
Sabu and Taz, after November to

1081
01:23:35,580 --> 01:23:39,760
were in the same ring at the same time
for the first time in a long time.

1082
01:23:41,210 --> 01:23:44,070
and then we knew these two guys would
face that battle legal.

1083
01:23:44,350 --> 01:23:47,750
And it was a great moment, and it was,
God, we made each other in that match.

1084
01:23:48,350 --> 01:23:50,770
You know, we made each other in that
match, and I'll never forget it.

1085
01:24:13,870 --> 01:24:15,750
a phenomenal moment for the company.

1086
01:24:16,230 --> 01:24:20,950
And I was fortunate enough to be part of
that promotion and all of that being in

1087
01:24:20,950 --> 01:24:25,090
one of the main events and wrestled my
art nemesis, Sabu.

1088
01:24:26,090 --> 01:24:27,670
And it was a great moment.

1089
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:36,310
Ladies and gentlemen, our next event,
the three -way dance.

1090
01:24:37,210 --> 01:24:42,470
The winner of this match will take on
Raven later this evening for the East.

1091
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:53,440
For me, being at the time like 24 years
old and living 10 minutes from the arena

1092
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:58,900
to be in the main event with a legend
like Terry Funk and a hardcore legend

1093
01:24:58,900 --> 01:25:01,040
Sandman at the time, you know, an ECW
icon.

1094
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:05,900
And I looked around and said, you know,
I even said to Terry Funk earlier that

1095
01:25:05,900 --> 01:25:07,860
day we met about the match and
everything.

1096
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:09,940
He goes, well, you know, how are you
feeling, Stevie?

1097
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,000
And I go, I don't know what the hell I'm
doing here, Terry. You got all of these

1098
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:15,420
guys, all these amazing athletes.

1099
01:25:16,220 --> 01:25:19,940
They'd have names for themselves, and
Paul Heyman picked me to be in the main

1100
01:25:19,940 --> 01:25:23,440
event for this match. Tommy Dreamer
wasn't even wrestling that night. Tommy

1101
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:28,100
Dreamer was doing commentary, and I'm
thinking, you know, what did I ever do

1102
01:25:28,100 --> 01:25:29,260
deserve this? This is unbelievable.

1103
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:32,120
And what a story.

1104
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:33,680
The impossible dream.

1105
01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:39,330
This broken -down, beat -up old man.

1106
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:40,710
I'm an old man.

1107
01:25:41,070 --> 01:25:43,410
I don't have it in me anymore.

1108
01:25:43,950 --> 01:25:49,270
And he comes up against this
unstoppable, badass young punk, Raven.

1109
01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:52,610
And Raven's going to stop him at every
turn.

1110
01:25:52,810 --> 01:25:56,990
And Raven looks at Terry Funk and says,
you remind me of my own father. You want

1111
01:25:56,990 --> 01:26:01,790
to abuse me. You drink. You this. Oh, my
God. It was just so emotional. And for

1112
01:26:01,790 --> 01:26:03,250
Funk to win it, it was just...

1113
01:26:03,870 --> 01:26:07,730
The culmination of all of our dreams. It
was the impossible dream taking place

1114
01:26:07,730 --> 01:26:08,910
in front of your very eyes.

1115
01:26:09,390 --> 01:26:10,349
It's over!

1116
01:26:10,350 --> 01:26:11,350
It's over!

1117
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:14,130
He did it! He did it!

1118
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:19,210
For everything that he did for us, he
deserved it.

1119
01:26:20,770 --> 01:26:22,010
Truly deserved it.

1120
01:26:22,530 --> 01:26:27,930
The transformer or whatever power supply
blew up ten seconds after the pay -per

1121
01:26:27,930 --> 01:26:31,450
-view was over, which, if it had
happened during the pay -per -view...

1122
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,620
It could have been just a big
catastrophe.

1123
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,520
Our first pay -per -view, and people
don't even get to see the whole thing.

1124
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,200
don't even get to see Terry Funk win the
ECW world title.

1125
01:26:42,060 --> 01:26:45,760
If the show would have ran three seconds
longer, we would have lost the feed.

1126
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:50,480
The building couldn't handle all the
power that we were pumping out.

1127
01:26:51,060 --> 01:26:55,840
But when we made it there, it was like
we won the World Series.

1128
01:26:56,420 --> 01:27:00,500
Fans were just going nuts, like the home
team just finally did it.

1129
01:27:00,830 --> 01:27:06,650
Everybody back there was so emotional. I
cried and just kept crying.

1130
01:27:07,690 --> 01:27:11,670
We all cried because we'd worked so hard
to get there.

1131
01:27:14,570 --> 01:27:19,910
Joey Stiles cried, openly weeping when
the show was over

1132
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:24,870
because they didn't want him to do the
show by himself and I insisted on it.

1133
01:27:25,690 --> 01:27:28,630
Harry Funk cried because even...

1134
01:27:29,480 --> 01:27:33,160
In his 50s, he realized he made this
thing happen.

1135
01:27:34,220 --> 01:27:37,720
It was a very emotional time. A lot of
people say a lot of things about Paul

1136
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,640
Heyman, but he put 24 hours a day, seven
days a week.

1137
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:47,020
So for him to get that pay -per -view
off and look like ACW was about to

1138
01:27:47,020 --> 01:27:51,220
springboard to another level, I'm sure
it was exhausting emotionally,

1139
01:27:51,580 --> 01:27:55,860
physically, mentally. And, you know, I'm
sure he cried. He probably cried for a

1140
01:27:55,860 --> 01:27:56,860
good week.

1141
01:28:05,450 --> 01:28:08,470
I remember the time period of just being
crazy, like, how could these people,

1142
01:28:08,510 --> 01:28:13,450
like your friends, be doing this? You
know, Raven was the first person who

1143
01:28:13,450 --> 01:28:16,070
called me, and he was like, do you want
to come?

1144
01:28:16,330 --> 01:28:18,930
And we actually got in a fight about
this because he thought I told Paul.

1145
01:28:19,210 --> 01:28:23,890
And I never told anyone until right now
of how it actually happened.

1146
01:28:24,590 --> 01:28:29,750
Raven leaving to me was a creative
disappointment as much as a business

1147
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:36,180
disappointment because I felt it was
just, so much more that that character

1148
01:28:36,180 --> 01:28:37,079
to offer.

1149
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:41,400
And the only place where he could make
that offering was at ECW.

1150
01:28:42,500 --> 01:28:48,340
When Raven was leaving ECW to go to WCW,
that was the night I finally beat him.

1151
01:29:11,980 --> 01:29:15,380
and one, two, three, the lights, I
raised my hand, the lights went out,

1152
01:29:15,380 --> 01:29:17,000
go back on, and Jerry Lawler's in the
ring.

1153
01:29:17,300 --> 01:29:21,440
And then Jerry Lawler beats the crap out
of me. The guy from the WWE is now

1154
01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:23,040
beating up the guy who represents ECW.

1155
01:29:23,380 --> 01:29:27,160
So one feud ended, one feud started.

1156
01:29:28,140 --> 01:29:31,180
Jerry Lawler in the ECW arena?

1157
01:29:31,900 --> 01:29:35,640
They had seen the ECW guys invade Raw,
but...

1158
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:40,220
I'm just, no, I could tell by the
reactions. They never thought that a WWE

1159
01:29:40,220 --> 01:29:45,720
wrestler would come to the ECW arena.
And so when I showed up, it was really a

1160
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:47,120
sheer pandemonium.

1161
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,700
To me, it was like the night Eric
Bischoff showed up on Raw.

1162
01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:53,460
How dare Eric Bischoff show up there?

1163
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:55,800
Just like how dare Jerry Lawler?

1164
01:29:56,160 --> 01:30:00,840
And he put a beating on me. Jerry Lawler
caned me in my testicles and knocked me

1165
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:01,840
out from a cane shot.

1166
01:30:02,020 --> 01:30:04,000
And I had to go to the hospital for it.

1167
01:30:05,930 --> 01:30:07,950
by Jim Cornette hitting me with a tennis
racket.

1168
01:30:08,450 --> 01:30:12,290
Because he knocked me out with it. And
Jim Cornette hitting me on the back woke

1169
01:30:12,290 --> 01:30:13,209
me up.

1170
01:30:13,210 --> 01:30:15,990
And I had to go to the hospital because
they thought I was going to have a

1171
01:30:15,990 --> 01:30:22,190
rupture. And I had to get a couple of
pieces of blood pulled out of my

1172
01:30:22,190 --> 01:30:23,450
after that night.

1173
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:25,990
And that was another part of being
hardcore.

1174
01:30:26,530 --> 01:30:28,170
He apologized for it later.

1175
01:30:28,490 --> 01:30:31,750
Because after he did that, he bolted
after the show because he had that much

1176
01:30:31,750 --> 01:30:33,030
heat. He left.

1177
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:35,080
It was legitimately dangerous.

1178
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:36,400
They were that upset.

1179
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:43,160
I don't often get scared or in fear for
my safety, but that night I was.

1180
01:30:43,740 --> 01:30:48,200
Jerry Lawler had a huge impact of ECW
because he stood for everything that ECW

1181
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:49,179
was against.

1182
01:30:49,180 --> 01:30:56,060
I did look at their organization and
honestly think that it was extremely

1183
01:30:56,060 --> 01:30:59,300
wrestling. And so I guess that's what
Tommy Dreamer means by that.

1184
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:01,160
Hey!

1185
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:10,500
That would piss off the fans so much.

1186
01:31:10,820 --> 01:31:15,280
I stood for everything that ECW stood
for, and Jerry Lawler stood for

1187
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,800
that WWE stood for. It was just a clash.

1188
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:20,040
It was the Yankees versus the Red Sox.

1189
01:31:20,900 --> 01:31:24,640
Once we had Battle Eagle, then it was
just like, it was a success, and then,

1190
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:28,080
boom, it popped, you know? And then we
started banging out pay -per -views,

1191
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:29,920
making money.

1192
01:31:31,260 --> 01:31:35,040
When Paul took over the company, I think
Paul wanted to have it under his own

1193
01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:36,040
vision.

1194
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,120
He still kept Todd around as the
figurehead, as the president.

1195
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:46,360
And during the whole Monday Night Wars,
it was a crazy time. And supposedly we

1196
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:48,080
had a mole in our locker room.

1197
01:31:48,580 --> 01:31:54,900
Todd Gordon, supposedly, all due respect
to Todd Gordon, some were feeling

1198
01:31:54,900 --> 01:32:01,820
that he quite possibly could have been
helping WCW get

1199
01:32:01,820 --> 01:32:04,940
a hold of some ECW talent.

1200
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:12,640
We all had to be paranoid because we had
WCW and WWE breathing down our necks to

1201
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:13,640
try to take our talent.

1202
01:32:14,140 --> 01:32:15,600
Everybody was trying to knock us down.

1203
01:32:16,220 --> 01:32:20,140
And Paul is very paranoid. Paul is
crazy.

1204
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:24,420
He broke into Todd Gordon's cell phone
and played me the message of all the

1205
01:32:24,420 --> 01:32:25,420
calling.

1206
01:32:25,620 --> 01:32:29,820
Me and Taz were at Paul's house, and he
played the whole thing. And me and Taz

1207
01:32:29,820 --> 01:32:31,600
were like, we couldn't believe how it
was going on.

1208
01:32:32,030 --> 01:32:33,030
It was Terry Taylor.

1209
01:32:33,290 --> 01:32:37,650
It was Bill Alfonso. They were just, you
know, talking about, great deal, man.

1210
01:32:37,790 --> 01:32:40,790
We bring this all in. They were going to
do an ECW invasion in WCW.

1211
01:32:41,410 --> 01:32:45,110
I don't know the real story behind it. I
have an idea.

1212
01:32:46,190 --> 01:32:47,850
Other people have a perspective.

1213
01:32:48,430 --> 01:32:52,230
But you never really know the truth
behind it. You never really know

1214
01:32:52,230 --> 01:32:55,030
motivation for getting on the phone and
saying, yo, you know what's really

1215
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:56,830
happening here? You don't really know.

1216
01:32:57,650 --> 01:32:58,690
So, you know, you...

1217
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:03,000
You don't really know the truth about
situations like this, so why spend your

1218
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:04,040
time trying to figure it out?

1219
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:08,520
The feeling in the locker room was kind
of bewilderment. I mean, like, a little

1220
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:09,520
bit of dismay.

1221
01:33:10,140 --> 01:33:13,480
My name is Paul Heyman, and I am the
executive producer and talent

1222
01:33:13,480 --> 01:33:17,760
of Extreme Championship Wrestling. It's
a job that was given to me on September

1223
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,340
18, 1993, by the founder of this
promotion, Todd Gordon.

1224
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:23,280
It is therefore my responsibility.

1225
01:33:23,930 --> 01:33:28,710
to inform the public that with a heavy
heart earlier this week, ECW accepted

1226
01:33:28,710 --> 01:33:32,070
resignation of Todd Gordon as
Commissioner of Extreme Championship

1227
01:33:32,410 --> 01:33:36,190
Citing increasing pressures as father of
four children and running a family

1228
01:33:36,190 --> 01:33:41,250
business, Todd could no longer assume
the responsibility of being ECW's

1229
01:33:41,250 --> 01:33:45,010
Commissioner. We here at Extreme
Championship Wrestling wish Todd nothing

1230
01:33:45,010 --> 01:33:49,190
the best in all of his future endeavors
and want to let him know that we intend

1231
01:33:49,190 --> 01:33:52,570
to make him proud as we carry on his
vision.

1232
01:33:53,780 --> 01:33:54,780
Of ECW.

1233
01:33:55,740 --> 01:33:56,760
He fired Todd.

1234
01:33:57,120 --> 01:34:00,280
And Fonzie was actually going to get
fired from it. And he had a.

1235
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:05,540
We all loved Fonzie. We didn't want to
see him go. And he had a great match

1236
01:34:05,540 --> 01:34:06,540
Eula McGillicuddy.

1237
01:34:06,980 --> 01:34:08,580
And it saved his job.

1238
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:36,160
Bill McGillicuddy was involved in five
of the most intense minutes in the

1239
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:42,720
history of ECW when she had that match
with Bill Alfonso. I mean, they beat the

1240
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:47,060
crap out of each other. They had a
phenomenal match.

1241
01:34:58,350 --> 01:35:03,210
who's not a wrestler. Here's Bill
Alfonso, who's a 135 -pound former

1242
01:35:03,910 --> 01:35:10,710
And these guys had an amazing fight
that,

1243
01:35:10,810 --> 01:35:15,630
to this day, if you ask me, hey, name
one of the hardest -hitting battles in

1244
01:35:15,630 --> 01:35:18,390
history of ECW, it ranks right up there
with anything else I've ever seen.

1245
01:35:21,830 --> 01:35:24,510
Paul Heyman stepped up and...

1246
01:35:25,230 --> 01:35:30,070
Took everybody in the palm of his hand
with those speeches and marched

1247
01:35:30,070 --> 01:35:33,970
right through the, you know, the valley
of the shadow of darkness and right

1248
01:35:33,970 --> 01:35:38,710
through hell and back. And we all went
merrily along and didn't miss a beat.

1249
01:35:39,110 --> 01:35:42,210
It was shocking, but it was also one of
the best things that happened to me

1250
01:35:42,210 --> 01:35:46,950
because I remember sitting in a little
like deli or something with Paul and Taj

1251
01:35:46,950 --> 01:35:49,550
and Dreamer. And I was new at that time.

1252
01:35:50,060 --> 01:35:53,720
So I really don't want to open my mouth
too much, but I knew that I had a

1253
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:59,040
background in business and that I could
help the company, and this was my

1254
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:00,040
opportunity to prove it.

1255
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:04,340
And when they were trying to discuss
amongst themselves, well, what are we

1256
01:36:04,340 --> 01:36:05,940
to do now? Who's going to take care of
this and that?

1257
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:07,900
That's when I stood up and I said, Paul,
I'll do it.

1258
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:11,880
I can do it. Give me the ball, and I'll
run with it. And that was the day I was

1259
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:18,000
given the job of the everyday running of
ECW outside of the ring.

1260
01:36:18,870 --> 01:36:25,430
ECW not being a huge, huge company at
any time, a lot of us participated and

1261
01:36:25,430 --> 01:36:27,530
other duties besides being wrestlers.

1262
01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:33,890
Paul was trying to secure national
television deals, and as the company

1263
01:36:33,890 --> 01:36:39,090
were growing without having to hire more
people.

1264
01:36:39,670 --> 01:36:42,370
Everybody seemed to put the company well
and above.

1265
01:36:42,990 --> 01:36:46,570
their own personal interest. They felt
that if the company gained ground and

1266
01:36:46,570 --> 01:36:51,370
actually was able to stand up and
compete with WCW or WWE on their own,

1267
01:36:51,370 --> 01:36:54,630
they would then again succeed and be
able to stand up too.

1268
01:36:55,030 --> 01:36:59,230
Taz was in charge of merchandising.
Tommy was in charge of, he did a lot of

1269
01:36:59,230 --> 01:37:01,610
booking and, you know, behind the scenes
stuff.

1270
01:37:01,830 --> 01:37:03,150
Bubba booked the shows.

1271
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:08,140
I would do business dealings with the
arenas. I would call up and say, this is

1272
01:37:08,140 --> 01:37:11,260
so -and -so, and I'd like to book a show
with ECW and everything like that.

1273
01:37:11,500 --> 01:37:17,860
So I got to get an education in the
wrestling business outside of the ring,

1274
01:37:17,860 --> 01:37:22,220
that's what I truly loved about the
company was that I was given the

1275
01:37:22,220 --> 01:37:23,220
to do that.

1276
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:29,980
I had two roles in the fact of I
designed all of our logos and

1277
01:37:29,980 --> 01:37:30,980
our merchandise.

1278
01:37:32,460 --> 01:37:36,200
I don't have an art background or
anything, but I just had an act for it,

1279
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,240
Paul said, why don't you do this? You
know, design our stuff.

1280
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:43,460
And I just came up with all the sayings
on the back of all the T -shirts and the

1281
01:37:43,460 --> 01:37:47,240
logos and the colors and all the rest of
the T -shirts, because merchandise was

1282
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:48,240
a huge thing for us.

1283
01:37:48,420 --> 01:37:51,760
You know, the guys made a lot of money
with their T -shirts. Our T -shirts and

1284
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:52,639
stuff were cool.

1285
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:56,360
I would bring all the T -shirts to all
the shows. I would physically drive

1286
01:37:56,440 --> 01:37:57,440
We had a warehouse.

1287
01:37:58,330 --> 01:38:03,630
Me, Devon Dudley and Nunzio would load
up the van for the fans to purchase the

1288
01:38:03,630 --> 01:38:09,550
-shirts with the T -shirts. And then
after the shows, we would drive home and

1289
01:38:09,550 --> 01:38:15,030
that Monday unload all the T -shirts.
We'd have bandages on our foreheads and

1290
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:20,310
would carry all the T -shirts back in to
the warehouse.

1291
01:38:21,410 --> 01:38:25,490
Gabe Sapolsky and I used to answer phone
calls, take credit card orders, take

1292
01:38:25,490 --> 01:38:30,810
ticket orders, mail out tickets, field
fan. We were like the WWE fan line.

1293
01:38:30,910 --> 01:38:31,910
Remember that back there?

1294
01:38:31,990 --> 01:38:36,270
We used to do that for ECW, answer
questions, see who was going to be at

1295
01:38:36,270 --> 01:38:39,590
show that weekend, give out show dates,
mailing lists, all that stuff.

1296
01:38:39,930 --> 01:38:43,830
And it was kind of funny because people
would recognize my voice because I sort

1297
01:38:43,830 --> 01:38:44,930
of have a distinct voice.

1298
01:38:45,230 --> 01:38:47,630
They'd say, man, you sound just like
Stevie Richards. What's your name?

1299
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:54,720
I had to make up a ECW office line,
which my ECW office name was Lloyd Van

1300
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:55,720
Buren.

1301
01:38:55,900 --> 01:39:00,300
We also would send out all the T -shirts
from mail order or from TV.

1302
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:04,560
Most fans never knew that the people
mailing those shirts to them were either

1303
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:09,520
from Devon Dudley, Nunzio, or Tommy
Dreamer. We're actually physically

1304
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:12,540
them in the packages, writing out the
thing, and sending it.

1305
01:39:13,020 --> 01:39:17,060
I also ran the ECW wrestling school,
which is called the House of Hardcore.

1306
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,880
We ran a very, very tough, old school
type of dojo.

1307
01:39:22,180 --> 01:39:28,980
No joke. You know, out of hundreds of
applicants, and this is the truth,

1308
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:33,260
I think, three or four people graduated
from the ECW House of Hardcore.

1309
01:39:33,660 --> 01:39:38,920
Paul wanted this school and wanted me to
run it and did not care if it made

1310
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:39,920
money or not.

1311
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,860
He wanted to just get a couple of guys
that respected the industry and that

1312
01:39:43,860 --> 01:39:46,160
great fundamentals and were tough.

1313
01:39:46,860 --> 01:39:48,700
He wanted it, and that's what he got.

1314
01:39:49,260 --> 01:39:52,840
I would collect the money from the
concessions.

1315
01:39:53,180 --> 01:39:58,120
Sometimes I'd walk out with $20 ,000,
$30 ,000 in my pocket, and I'd hand

1316
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:01,760
support. After pay -per -views, we'd
pull that from selling T -shirts,

1317
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:02,840
merchandise, anything.

1318
01:40:03,060 --> 01:40:07,300
And the girls who would work for me were
the rest of his wives and the rest of

1319
01:40:07,300 --> 01:40:09,620
his girlfriends, people who I trusted.

1320
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:16,930
And they all worked, and we... Every
single wrestler pretty much had a

1321
01:40:16,930 --> 01:40:23,370
job. We all grew together. It was a
bunch of young, talented,

1322
01:40:23,530 --> 01:40:28,990
hungry wrestlers that wanted to succeed.

1323
01:40:29,630 --> 01:40:32,010
If we didn't grow together, we were
going to fall apart.

1324
01:40:33,110 --> 01:40:37,650
We loved the business. We believed in
what Paulie was telling us. We believed

1325
01:40:37,650 --> 01:40:40,930
the direction that ECW was going, and it
was just...

1326
01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:45,900
You know, I just wanted to be around the
wrestling business 24 -7.

1327
01:40:46,780 --> 01:40:51,840
ECW was more than just a wrestling
company. It was a family. You know, we

1328
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:54,580
all in the company for the same purpose.

1329
01:40:55,080 --> 01:41:00,220
And that was just to make it the third
largest company in the business and to

1330
01:41:00,220 --> 01:41:05,500
try to even be on the same level as
Vince and Bischoff at the time in terms

1331
01:41:05,500 --> 01:41:07,400
just like neck and neck, nose to nose.

1332
01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:11,320
ECW is pride.

1333
01:41:11,900 --> 01:41:14,500
ECW, you know, is excitement.

1334
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:20,080
ECW was just everything wrapped into
one. It was almost like each and every

1335
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:22,640
night, ECW was like WrestleMania to us.

1336
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:25,000
It was the granddaddy of them all to us.

1337
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,040
Paulie, to me, was the David Koresh of
pro wrestling.

1338
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:36,820
He could talk his way into making you
believe that

1339
01:41:36,820 --> 01:41:42,100
great things were going to happen, and
great things did happen, but Paulie

1340
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:47,720
always made the grass seem greener. It
was like a call, and it was all led by,

1341
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:48,720
you know, Paul Heyman.

1342
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,660
He could take everybody in that locker
room

1343
01:41:53,340 --> 01:41:58,080
build them up to the point to where they
would go out there and walk across hot

1344
01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:02,920
coals if Paulie asked him to. They'd be
willing to roll around in thumbtacks

1345
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:05,140
buck naked if Paulie asked him to.

1346
01:42:05,780 --> 01:42:07,560
He brainwashed a lot of guys.

1347
01:42:08,420 --> 01:42:13,560
But as a boss and as a businessman, he
did what he had to do to get his

1348
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:17,960
wrestlers to perform on a certain level
and carry out his stories.

1349
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:20,720
We didn't have writers and we didn't
have, you know.

1350
01:42:21,620 --> 01:42:23,120
Creative teams and all that, man.

1351
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:25,200
Paul just gave us direction.

1352
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:32,600
Go out, talk about so -and -so, and, you
know, do it.

1353
01:42:33,020 --> 01:42:36,100
You know, and Paul let you be you.

1354
01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:42,660
Paulie entrusted us to come up with our
storylines and our characters and gave

1355
01:42:42,660 --> 01:42:47,400
us freedom to do whatever we wanted in
the ring, no matter how extreme, no

1356
01:42:47,400 --> 01:42:49,520
matter how violent. And a lot of
promoters...

1357
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:53,780
you know, at that time, weren't ready to
just cut loose and let anything go.

1358
01:42:54,000 --> 01:43:00,900
You really had control and the freedom
to speak

1359
01:43:00,900 --> 01:43:05,200
your mind on your character. It wasn't
rare to sit down and get into an hour

1360
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:09,580
-long conversation with Paulie about a
certain aspect of your character or your

1361
01:43:09,580 --> 01:43:10,740
storyline and your match.

1362
01:43:12,440 --> 01:43:18,440
We'd have a big locker room, and he,
Paul, would have his desk as a table.

1363
01:43:19,430 --> 01:43:22,310
smack dab in the middle of whatever
locker room we were in.

1364
01:43:23,230 --> 01:43:26,630
He was extremely accessible to the
people on his roster.

1365
01:43:27,510 --> 01:43:31,550
His main thing back in ECW, he wanted to
take guys that had no name and make

1366
01:43:31,550 --> 01:43:33,210
guys. He wanted to create characters.

1367
01:43:33,730 --> 01:43:37,270
I used to call our locker room and our
guys the land of the misfit toys.

1368
01:43:38,250 --> 01:43:43,030
Because we were the wrestlers that the
other promotions didn't want.

1369
01:43:43,990 --> 01:43:49,250
Either... The rumor was this guy had a
bad attitude, or that guy had personal

1370
01:43:49,250 --> 01:43:53,730
problems, or someone didn't want to do
business the right way. All these

1371
01:43:53,810 --> 01:43:56,990
this guy's too small, he's too short,
he's too skinny, he's too tall, he's too

1372
01:43:56,990 --> 01:44:00,710
fat, he's too this, he's too slow, he's
too dangerous to ring. All these

1373
01:44:00,710 --> 01:44:06,450
different things, and Heyman took all
these misfits and made ECW with them.

1374
01:44:07,790 --> 01:44:13,950
Paulie was a creative genius from the
standpoint that he could take a person,

1375
01:44:14,570 --> 01:44:20,810
And he could make the absolute most out
of their positives and camouflage their

1376
01:44:20,810 --> 01:44:22,830
negatives to where you could not see
them.

1377
01:44:23,950 --> 01:44:28,390
Al Stowe has been teetering on the brink
of a nervous breakdown for months here

1378
01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:29,390
at ECW.

1379
01:44:30,510 --> 01:44:33,870
The best thing for me about ECW was I
found head.

1380
01:44:34,470 --> 01:44:37,930
Because, you know, due to the grace of
God and a plastic head, I'm here today.

1381
01:44:38,370 --> 01:44:42,410
If I hadn't found that head and if I
hadn't had the opportunity that Paul

1382
01:44:42,410 --> 01:44:43,830
and ECW had given me,

1383
01:44:45,130 --> 01:44:48,990
I really don't know where my career
would have ended up. I honestly don't.

1384
01:44:48,990 --> 01:44:54,650
for that, I owe Paulie no end of an
amount of thanks, and to ECW and those

1385
01:44:55,050 --> 01:45:00,250
We were in the right place at the right
time in front of the right audience that

1386
01:45:00,250 --> 01:45:01,370
wanted something different.

1387
01:45:01,630 --> 01:45:08,410
Came backstage one night at the ECW
Arena, where a lot of people don't

1388
01:45:08,410 --> 01:45:12,570
that that's a bingo hall, but also on
the other side, they build the floats

1389
01:45:12,570 --> 01:45:13,650
the Mummer's Day parades.

1390
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:18,940
I was just rummaging around in the junk,
and we were taking a picture for a

1391
01:45:18,940 --> 01:45:24,940
Japanese magazine, and I picked up a
Styrofoam head, and I thought, well, you

1392
01:45:24,940 --> 01:45:30,460
know, I remembered back to a car ride
that Mick and Sid Vicious and Bob Holly

1393
01:45:30,460 --> 01:45:34,760
and I had where Mick was kind of fooling
around with a Styrofoam head that he

1394
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:37,620
had for the Mankind mask, and he was
acting like it was his girlfriend.

1395
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:39,340
And I thought...

1396
01:45:39,740 --> 01:45:42,880
I've been talking to myself and nobody's
been getting it. I'll take this to the

1397
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:44,600
ring and I'll talk to it like it's a
human being.

1398
01:45:45,220 --> 01:45:47,600
And that was where the head gimmick
started there in ECW.

1399
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:53,600
Just great. Did you see that? Huh? Was I
the only one watching? How were you

1400
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:54,760
paying attention for a change?

1401
01:45:54,980 --> 01:45:59,140
Did you see that? That was just great.
That was my chance, my match. Instead of

1402
01:45:59,140 --> 01:46:03,060
being on a PPV doing a J -O -B for once
I could have won.

1403
01:46:03,400 --> 01:46:08,580
But now you had to go and tell everybody
I was hurt. I dislocated my shoulder.

1404
01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:10,900
Big deal! This is supposed to be
hardcore!

1405
01:46:11,220 --> 01:46:12,220
Extreme!

1406
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:19,480
Chris Candido lobbied for me to get that
backstage promo that I did with the

1407
01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:22,740
head, speaking to the head and arguing
with it about the fact that it had let

1408
01:46:22,740 --> 01:46:26,960
slip that I had been injured and
couldn't wrestle on the pay -per -view,

1409
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:28,040
just took off from there.

1410
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:34,480
He ran with that thing, man. He just, he
went nuts with it. And he was talking

1411
01:46:34,480 --> 01:46:37,780
to the head, and he's listening to the
head, and...

1412
01:46:40,110 --> 01:46:44,350
We went with it, and then came along
part two of that.

1413
01:46:44,570 --> 01:46:47,370
Probably one of the greatest moments was
the first night I was in the room with

1414
01:46:47,370 --> 01:46:52,110
the head, and I held it up over my head
after the match, and everybody had those

1415
01:46:52,110 --> 01:46:55,650
styrofoam heads and began to throw them
into the ring. And on camera, it looked

1416
01:46:55,650 --> 01:46:58,910
like, you know, no pun intended, but
like I was standing in the middle of a

1417
01:46:58,910 --> 01:47:01,190
snowstorm. That was so cool.

1418
01:47:01,670 --> 01:47:06,230
I wanted to do a rave party effect with
one of our characters.

1419
01:47:07,179 --> 01:47:11,200
So I found these styrofoam head
distributors.

1420
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:15,840
And we spent a fortune buying styrofoam
heads.

1421
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:21,520
And I had two friends of mine who would
drive U -Haul trucks to all of our

1422
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:28,160
cities and bring 2 ,000, 3 ,000, 1 ,000
styrofoam heads with them.

1423
01:47:28,480 --> 01:47:31,240
And before ours met, we would hand out
the heads.

1424
01:47:32,060 --> 01:47:33,560
And then we hit the strobe light.

1425
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:35,920
And people would pop.

1426
01:47:54,330 --> 01:47:59,810
I think this era of wrestling was on
such a...

1427
01:48:00,330 --> 01:48:02,010
a great plateau.

1428
01:48:02,470 --> 01:48:05,090
I mean, everyone was watching
everything.

1429
01:48:05,330 --> 01:48:09,270
Who's going to jump from ECW to go to
WCW or WWE?

1430
01:48:09,630 --> 01:48:14,990
Is the WWE going to lose this guy? And
we'd come back and we'd snatch this guy.

1431
01:48:15,230 --> 01:48:19,750
And I think it was all good. The 900
numbers were doing great. The rumor

1432
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:21,870
were stirring around and everything was
hot.

1433
01:48:22,230 --> 01:48:24,490
We were surviving on our syndication.

1434
01:48:24,950 --> 01:48:28,830
We were surviving on word of mouth and
we were surviving on the internet.

1435
01:48:29,470 --> 01:48:35,670
We used to have internet conventions
called Cyber Slam, where fans would get

1436
01:48:35,670 --> 01:48:40,630
do Q andA with the wrestlers at ECW, and
it was broadcast over the internet. We

1437
01:48:40,630 --> 01:48:44,950
used to do live internet feeds from the
ECW arena and from all our shows, stuff

1438
01:48:44,950 --> 01:48:46,210
that really was never done before.

1439
01:48:46,650 --> 01:48:50,870
It just was spreading out, and it just
was creeping, and it just was happening,

1440
01:48:50,930 --> 01:48:52,790
and we could feel it. You know, I could
feel it.

1441
01:48:53,350 --> 01:48:58,090
1998, we really started doing four
nights a week. I think ECW could have...

1442
01:48:58,490 --> 01:49:00,070
taking over WCW.

1443
01:49:00,650 --> 01:49:04,350
We were on such a roller coaster, and
that roller coaster just kept getting

1444
01:49:04,350 --> 01:49:06,230
higher and higher and higher. There were
no dips.

1445
01:49:06,630 --> 01:49:08,330
We were really gaining a lot of
momentum.

1446
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:15,200
I'm not sure why anybody would consider
that at one time ECW was the number two

1447
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:20,080
organization out there compared to WWE
or WCW.

1448
01:49:20,340 --> 01:49:26,840
At a time when WCW was on top of the
mountains, so to speak, ECW clearly

1449
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:28,520
wasn't number two at that point.

1450
01:49:28,860 --> 01:49:30,040
WWE was.

1451
01:49:30,260 --> 01:49:36,280
And all the while WWE was number one, at
no time did

1452
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:43,030
ECW's... in any measurable way, either
in terms of television ratings, pay -per

1453
01:49:43,030 --> 01:49:47,370
-view buys, licensing merchandising,
live event attendance, international

1454
01:49:47,370 --> 01:49:53,870
distribution, any way you choose to
measure a level of success of a

1455
01:49:53,870 --> 01:49:58,870
company, at no time did ECW come even
close to being number two.

1456
01:49:59,130 --> 01:50:04,310
To this day, Eric Bischoff believes that
he created some of the stuff that was

1457
01:50:04,310 --> 01:50:06,790
created in a little bingo hall in
Philadelphia.

1458
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:09,460
I don't blame him for believing it.

1459
01:50:11,220 --> 01:50:16,840
From a purely business sense, I question
his judgment in terms of trying to

1460
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:23,660
create a truly national television
property with the kind

1461
01:50:23,660 --> 01:50:29,700
of hardcore content that was really the
fabric of his show.

1462
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:36,100
Even though WCW and WWE kind of looked
down on ECW like a nothing promotion.

1463
01:50:36,970 --> 01:50:39,350
I disagree. They all had their eyes on
the company because they knew it was

1464
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:43,490
something special. We did take some of
the ECW aspects of what they were doing

1465
01:50:43,490 --> 01:50:46,030
and sort of reshaped it in our own form.

1466
01:50:46,870 --> 01:50:48,650
But I never considered them a threat.

1467
01:50:49,490 --> 01:50:53,590
It was a totally different brand. It was
not what we were about.

1468
01:50:54,390 --> 01:50:59,190
Attitude grew from ECW's revolution.

1469
01:51:00,130 --> 01:51:01,130
No doubt.

1470
01:51:01,430 --> 01:51:02,870
Nobody can deny that.

1471
01:51:03,660 --> 01:51:09,060
I do believe there's some truth to that.
When I started in WWE as Mankind, there

1472
01:51:09,060 --> 01:51:12,980
were two things I used to hear when I
came out. One was you sold out. That was

1473
01:51:12,980 --> 01:51:14,460
coming from ECW fans.

1474
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:19,720
And ECW chants, whenever anything wild
was taking place, it was always seen as

1475
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:26,380
being a tribute or a ripoff of ECW. And
as our style in WWE got more

1476
01:51:26,380 --> 01:51:28,480
physical, those chants stopped.

1477
01:51:29,320 --> 01:51:35,400
And that physical style became
synonymous with WWE, not ECW. But I

1478
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:39,260
not been for ECW, you wouldn't have had
a WWE attitude.

1479
01:52:10,510 --> 01:52:14,090
People would say, you know, is that
where you got your attitude?

1480
01:52:14,510 --> 01:52:17,910
We've always had an attitude. We just
haven't always said it, you know, and

1481
01:52:17,910 --> 01:52:24,430
demonstrated it. The WWE attitude, it
was one of, it was more verbal

1482
01:52:24,430 --> 01:52:27,150
than the ECW attitude.

1483
01:52:27,350 --> 01:52:32,170
The ECW attitude was one of, who had
more hutzpah than the next guy?

1484
01:52:32,630 --> 01:52:35,230
I don't blame anybody for stealing their
concepts.

1485
01:52:35,850 --> 01:52:37,050
It's smart business.

1486
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:39,320
They had a larger platform.

1487
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:44,200
We pushed the envelope, and that forced
the other two companies to push the

1488
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:50,200
envelope. Without ECW going to the
extreme, you never would have seen Steve

1489
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:53,520
Austin come in drinking beers and
flipping the fingers to the audience.

1490
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:58,020
You never would have seen Mick Foley
coming in as Mankind and doing the 20

1491
01:52:58,020 --> 01:53:01,240
Hell in a Cell match. That was a result
of ECW.

1492
01:53:01,580 --> 01:53:05,840
I'm not saying we could not have been
successful without them, but I certainly

1493
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:07,120
think they played a part.

1494
01:53:07,630 --> 01:53:12,550
in letting us become the phenomenon that
we did. I firmly believe that.

1495
01:53:16,010 --> 01:53:21,150
In 1998, I feuded with Bam Bam Bigelow,
and that's another guy I learned so much

1496
01:53:21,150 --> 01:53:22,150
from.

1497
01:53:22,250 --> 01:53:27,310
Bam Bam had so much success here in the
WWE, and when he came to ECW, it was

1498
01:53:27,310 --> 01:53:32,510
like, wow, the beast from the East, from
Asbury Park, you know, a Northeast guy

1499
01:53:32,510 --> 01:53:36,050
coming into Extreme Championship
Wrestling, the Big Bam Bam. This is off

1500
01:53:36,050 --> 01:53:37,050
chart, you know.

1501
01:53:37,480 --> 01:53:41,680
And we wrestled each other at Asbury
Park Convention Center on a pay -per

1502
01:53:42,520 --> 01:53:45,080
And it was amazing because that was his
hometown.

1503
01:53:47,420 --> 01:53:49,100
Taz was untouchable at ECW.

1504
01:53:49,540 --> 01:53:52,440
And no one could imagine that Taz could
lose a match.

1505
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,320
Bam Bam and I were wrestling for the TV
title. I was the TV champion.

1506
01:53:57,100 --> 01:53:58,840
And I ended up getting him into Taz's
mission.

1507
01:53:59,380 --> 01:54:00,660
And I was on his back.

1508
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:04,180
And he was walking around the ring with
me on his back and choking him out.

1509
01:54:05,260 --> 01:54:09,920
And then all of a sudden, he just throws
himself backwards, and we go right

1510
01:54:09,920 --> 01:54:10,920
through the ring.

1511
01:54:17,420 --> 01:54:18,700
ECW Classic moment.

1512
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:24,800
The whole arena, you know, just stood
up. Like, looking in the ring, like,

1513
01:54:24,860 --> 01:54:28,300
trying to look in the ring. And it's
just, like, the silence, and then this,

1514
01:54:28,380 --> 01:54:31,220
like, holy -you -don't -watch chant
starts, you know.

1515
01:54:32,350 --> 01:54:38,790
We laid in that hole for, shoot, I'd
say, I don't know, about 25, 30 seconds,

1516
01:54:38,930 --> 01:54:41,070
maybe even longer, which is a long time,
you know.

1517
01:54:41,730 --> 01:54:46,090
And then Bam Bam crawled out first, you
know.

1518
01:54:46,990 --> 01:54:51,610
And the place went nuts. That's the
hometown guy, and they know I'm dead,

1519
01:54:51,610 --> 01:54:53,150
was his cushion, you know.

1520
01:54:53,990 --> 01:54:56,490
So the guy who went in second came out
first.

1521
01:54:57,510 --> 01:55:01,030
And I was giving up about 120 pounds to
Bam Bam at the time.

1522
01:55:02,060 --> 01:55:07,980
And then I didn't come out on my own.
Bam Bam pulled me out and covered me.

1523
01:55:08,100 --> 01:55:10,640
two, three. And Pin Mean became the TV
champion.

1524
01:55:10,860 --> 01:55:13,020
The place erupted and I lost the match.

1525
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:15,400
And he lost.

1526
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:19,740
Graciously. And came out just a few
weeks later.

1527
01:55:20,180 --> 01:55:22,740
Walked up to Bigelow in the ring and
said, you beat me?

1528
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:29,540
It was an honor to wrestle you. But just
so you know, now I'm even more inspired

1529
01:55:29,540 --> 01:55:30,980
to beat you back.

1530
01:55:31,530 --> 01:55:38,250
As time went on, I kind of invented my
own belt called the FTW Championship.

1531
01:55:39,650 --> 01:55:45,030
FTW stood for F the World.

1532
01:55:45,610 --> 01:55:47,910
And that was Taz's attitude.

1533
01:55:48,250 --> 01:55:49,550
He didn't care about anybody.

1534
01:55:49,850 --> 01:55:52,150
He was miserable, pissed at the world.

1535
01:55:52,530 --> 01:55:55,130
Just, you know, just angry.

1536
01:55:55,650 --> 01:55:56,790
Angry rage.

1537
01:55:57,580 --> 01:56:01,160
Our world champion, Shane Douglas, was
on the shelf with an injury.

1538
01:56:01,660 --> 01:56:04,740
The company was doing me wrong. I felt I
wasn't getting an opportunity for Shane

1539
01:56:04,740 --> 01:56:08,500
Douglas' ECW World Heavyweight title and
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1540
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:15,960
And I come out with my own championship
in my home

1541
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:20,960
city of Brooklyn, Queens, New York, and
debut this belt.

1542
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:24,700
And it took a life on of its own.

1543
01:56:28,270 --> 01:56:32,590
You see, I'm not the ungrounded champion
because I

1544
01:56:32,590 --> 01:56:39,350
am the world heavyweight champion.

1545
01:56:39,490 --> 01:56:44,630
And this is the proof. You can call it
the Brooklyn World Belt. You can call it

1546
01:56:44,630 --> 01:56:46,950
the World Belt.

1547
01:56:47,170 --> 01:56:49,010
You can call it anything you want.

1548
01:56:50,150 --> 01:56:53,030
But enough with the chitter -chatter.
Shane Douglas!

1549
01:57:10,040 --> 01:57:16,400
I don't think if you go back in the
history of ECW, the FTW title meant that

1550
01:57:16,400 --> 01:57:23,240
much. I think in the history of ECW, the
FTW title was the launch of

1551
01:57:23,240 --> 01:57:26,540
Taz's push towards the World Heavyweight
Championship.

1552
01:57:27,070 --> 01:57:31,550
And there's only been two FTW champions
in history, myself and Sabu.

1553
01:57:32,230 --> 01:57:37,650
Sabu wasn't happy when he had the FTW
belt because we had the first belt,

1554
01:57:37,650 --> 01:57:41,910
was an old TV belt that we painted
orange and just put FTW stickers on it,

1555
01:57:41,930 --> 01:57:47,210
right? And then we had a real belt made
that said FTW on it with my name on it.

1556
01:57:47,350 --> 01:57:50,030
So we figured, I don't know what else is
going to have it. It's mine. It's not a

1557
01:57:50,030 --> 01:57:51,770
real championship. I invented it.

1558
01:57:52,140 --> 01:57:55,160
Well, then, uh, once he let us know that
Taboo ended up beating me for it, and

1559
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:57,480
he was pissed that my name was on it and
graded it.

1560
01:57:57,740 --> 01:58:02,820
So he would take a big piece of white
tape, put it over my name, and just put

1561
01:58:02,820 --> 01:58:04,340
up, Sharpie wrote Taboo.

1562
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:06,980
So, yeah, he was a little nuts.

1563
01:58:07,300 --> 01:58:10,560
We had fun with it, though. The FTW
title was really cool.

1564
01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:16,920
The Dudleys were very, very, very
important in the history of ECW because

1565
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:19,960
paid their money to see the Dudleys get
beat up.

1566
01:58:21,020 --> 01:58:22,760
Hinging every night, me and Bubba.

1567
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:29,480
Man, I mean, just coming out there and
just being the most hated tag team at

1568
01:58:29,480 --> 01:58:33,340
that point in time and fighting, I mean,
1 ,500 people.

1569
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:37,120
I mean, just we would go through crowds.
We'd start riots. And, I mean, we would

1570
01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:40,320
take it on people left and right. I
mean, it was just amazing.

1571
01:58:40,820 --> 01:58:45,940
And I couldn't believe how much hatred
me and Bubba actually created in ECW.

1572
01:58:46,540 --> 01:58:49,760
Flaming Tables matches was the icing on
the cake for the Dudleys.

1573
01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:51,940
Everybody really used tables.

1574
01:58:52,260 --> 01:58:56,700
So it's nothing that we started doing or
perfected. It's just something we were

1575
01:58:56,700 --> 01:59:01,980
known for. One day in Detroit, we needed
to put an icing on the cake in our feud

1576
01:59:01,980 --> 01:59:03,960
with Balls Mahoney and Axl Rotten.

1577
01:59:04,440 --> 01:59:06,880
And I said, well, why don't we just
light it on fire?

1578
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:13,540
I remember being scared to death because
of the fire and knowing how

1579
01:59:13,540 --> 01:59:15,240
unpredictable fire was.

1580
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:20,740
You know, you don't know if you can
control it or not. It can, you know,

1581
01:59:20,740 --> 01:59:23,180
get out of control and things can
happen.

1582
01:59:24,020 --> 01:59:27,180
We've already thrown thumbtacks on it.
We've already wrapped it in barbed wire.

1583
01:59:27,240 --> 01:59:29,260
How much crazier, how much sicker can we
get?

1584
01:59:30,080 --> 01:59:36,800
I remember taking the lighter and just
putting it right in that one little spot

1585
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:39,880
and the whole table just went up in
flames.

1586
01:59:40,420 --> 01:59:43,580
And I remember the people's reaction was
just like, oh.

1587
01:59:44,570 --> 01:59:49,450
And I remember us taking a wrestler by
the name at the time in ECW called Bulls

1588
01:59:49,450 --> 01:59:55,070
Mahoney. He was like maybe 6 '1", 6 '2",
360 pounds, and we picked him up in a

1589
01:59:55,070 --> 01:59:58,850
powerbomb -type position and just
slammed him right through it.

1590
01:59:59,210 --> 02:00:02,510
He wasn't caring about getting burned.
He said, if I get burned, great, better

1591
02:00:02,510 --> 02:00:03,469
for the business.

1592
02:00:03,470 --> 02:00:05,210
And that's how Flaming Tables were
invented.

1593
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:09,920
The wood, the fire, I mean, just went
everywhere. And, I mean, the fans went

1594
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:15,780
crazy. We were happy that no one
seriously got burned or hurt really bad,

1595
02:00:15,780 --> 02:00:18,500
was just that you could feel the heat.
It was that intense.

1596
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:26,460
We were the epitome of the word heel. We
were the worst of the worst.

1597
02:00:26,740 --> 02:00:32,800
We were the most in -your -face,
disgusting, hated people that ever

1598
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:34,220
in an ECW wrestling ring.

1599
02:00:35,900 --> 02:00:37,960
came through ECW would say the same
thing.

1600
02:00:39,120 --> 02:00:42,640
I think the Dudleys are the greatest
team in the history of ECW, bar none.

1601
02:00:43,580 --> 02:00:49,360
They egged on a crowd. They antagonized
the audience more than any other act in

1602
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:50,820
the history of this business.

1603
02:00:51,260 --> 02:00:53,900
And they were fearless in doing it.

1604
02:00:55,200 --> 02:00:59,500
If I said it once, I said it a billion
times.

1605
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:05,160
You people are the most no -good,
impregnable...

1606
02:01:05,450 --> 02:01:07,870
Pieces of garbage I've never seen.

1607
02:01:08,950 --> 02:01:13,650
We went so far on a nightly basis. We
incited riots.

1608
02:01:13,850 --> 02:01:20,630
We stirred the people up into such a
frenzy that a lot of crazy

1609
02:01:20,630 --> 02:01:21,630
things would happen.

1610
02:01:22,930 --> 02:01:29,270
Not being in this miserable piece of...

1611
02:01:36,650 --> 02:01:42,110
And we probably went too far every
single night. Did it ever get that far?

1612
02:01:42,210 --> 02:01:47,370
one night on pay -per -view, I believe
it was Heat Wave 99 in Dayton, Ohio at

1613
02:01:47,370 --> 02:01:48,370
the Harrah Arena.

1614
02:02:18,760 --> 02:02:23,100
It got to the point where fans were
waiting outside, you know, when we would

1615
02:02:23,100 --> 02:02:27,640
to our cars just to say, okay, you know,
no security is around you now. What do

1616
02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:28,640
you have?

1617
02:02:29,780 --> 02:02:32,420
Security, the security police are around
the ring.

1618
02:02:33,460 --> 02:02:36,800
No one's going to make a move. They're
the six -time world tag team champion.

1619
02:03:22,670 --> 02:03:27,330
was every single night from the time we
walked into the arena to the time we

1620
02:03:27,330 --> 02:03:28,330
left.

1621
02:03:28,930 --> 02:03:29,990
Going too far.

1622
02:03:30,330 --> 02:03:35,830
Yeah, we went far every night, but that
was part of the beauty of ECW and what

1623
02:03:35,830 --> 02:03:37,010
got the W boys to dance.

1624
02:03:42,210 --> 02:03:49,010
The wrestling business at that stage
became almost like the

1625
02:03:49,010 --> 02:03:50,270
dot -com industry.

1626
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:54,600
And that it was an inflated bubble that
had a burst.

1627
02:03:55,900 --> 02:03:58,840
And the pay scale just went off the
chart.

1628
02:03:59,100 --> 02:04:01,280
And it became very difficult to afford
talent.

1629
02:04:02,140 --> 02:04:07,420
And these guys are turning down hundreds
of thousands of dollars to go elsewhere

1630
02:04:07,420 --> 02:04:11,080
just to stay with us. And there comes a
time where that's not fiscally

1631
02:04:11,080 --> 02:04:12,640
responsible to your own family.

1632
02:04:15,120 --> 02:04:17,740
We had to step it up. We had to get
licenses.

1633
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:22,480
We had to get advertisers. We had to get
sponsors. And the only way to do that

1634
02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:24,700
is to be real enough to be on national
TV.

1635
02:04:25,140 --> 02:04:29,040
It was a struggle. I mean, that was when
a lot of the guys were starving. You

1636
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:32,800
know, that was when you were eating tuna
and rice seven days a week.

1637
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:38,400
So it was tough because the veterans
that were there that couldn't put up

1638
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:39,219
it quit.

1639
02:04:39,220 --> 02:04:42,060
And these were the guys that the rest of
the locker room looked up to.

1640
02:04:42,750 --> 02:04:46,170
And, you know, here I was going, what
the hell, Bam Bam Bigelow just walked

1641
02:04:46,170 --> 02:04:50,650
because he said this place, you know,
isn't worth it. And I'm going, in my

1642
02:04:50,670 --> 02:04:52,230
I'm thinking, is he right?

1643
02:04:52,430 --> 02:04:55,990
Am I, you know, trying to stay on a
sinking ship? I mean, it's obvious my

1644
02:04:55,990 --> 02:04:58,090
are bouncing. Why should I be loyal to
this guy now?

1645
02:04:58,470 --> 02:05:04,290
When Paul Heyman fell on bad financial
times, it affected a lot of people. When

1646
02:05:04,290 --> 02:05:09,370
I started in the company in 99, a lot of
guys were getting, their checks were

1647
02:05:09,370 --> 02:05:11,530
bouncing ever since the beginning.

1648
02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:14,680
It seemed like it was always a problem.

1649
02:05:14,900 --> 02:05:18,560
I can tell you personally I didn't have
any checks bounced on me, but I know of

1650
02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:23,820
a lot of guys that had checks bounced on
them and a lot of guys that were very

1651
02:05:23,820 --> 02:05:30,120
loyal to ECW and were very instrumental
to ECW's success that Paulie owed a lot

1652
02:05:30,120 --> 02:05:35,520
to, not just owed as far as his loyalty
to, but also owed a lot of money to

1653
02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:40,700
financially because they performed
either for little or no money.

1654
02:05:41,310 --> 02:05:45,530
for lengthy periods of time trying to
help that company through because of how

1655
02:05:45,530 --> 02:05:48,170
much they felt for ECW and for Paul
Hammond.

1656
02:05:49,070 --> 02:05:53,130
My first couple years there, I wasn't
making anything, maybe $75 a night.

1657
02:05:53,830 --> 02:05:58,450
I was beat up. I was on the road all the
time. I couldn't afford to pay for

1658
02:05:58,450 --> 02:06:01,930
anything. But, I mean, that's part of
paying dues. It made me a better person,

1659
02:06:01,930 --> 02:06:03,790
better wrestler for suffering through
that.

1660
02:06:04,190 --> 02:06:05,590
I got a couple bounce checks.

1661
02:06:05,850 --> 02:06:10,050
I was working on a verbal contract at
the time, and he had put in a clause

1662
02:06:11,420 --> 02:06:14,640
If there was a breach in the contract
due to pay, he had 30 days to correct

1663
02:06:14,920 --> 02:06:17,580
And I told him that was okay, but I
wanted the three strikes you're out

1664
02:06:17,700 --> 02:06:19,980
where if he did it three times, I could
walk.

1665
02:06:20,700 --> 02:06:24,580
And on the third one, I went to him and
said, we're on a verbal contract.

1666
02:06:24,940 --> 02:06:27,080
I'm verbally breaking it. You've striked
out three times.

1667
02:06:27,380 --> 02:06:30,540
I'm no longer under contract. I'm not
quitting, but if I have another check

1668
02:06:30,540 --> 02:06:32,620
bounce, I'm leaving.

1669
02:06:33,160 --> 02:06:36,000
And at which point in time, my paychecks
were FedExed to my door, and I got them

1670
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:36,639
every week.

1671
02:06:36,640 --> 02:06:38,740
And right up to my last show, I didn't
have another bounce check.

1672
02:06:40,510 --> 02:06:44,150
either were afraid to put their foot
down or didn't feel that they could get

1673
02:06:44,150 --> 02:06:47,130
job elsewhere, kind of had to tough out
the bounce check.

1674
02:06:48,030 --> 02:06:49,630
I think it affected everybody
differently.

1675
02:06:49,890 --> 02:06:53,890
Luckily, I was younger and not married,
and I didn't really need the money where

1676
02:06:53,890 --> 02:06:57,670
guys maybe like Bam Bam Bigelow, who was
there at the time, Shane Douglas, those

1677
02:06:57,670 --> 02:07:00,830
guys affected a lot more. They're
married, they got higher mortgages and

1678
02:07:00,950 --> 02:07:02,490
So I think it affected everybody
differently.

1679
02:07:03,570 --> 02:07:07,190
It affected me too, you know. I mean, I
needed money, but it didn't affect me

1680
02:07:07,190 --> 02:07:08,068
that way.

1681
02:07:08,070 --> 02:07:10,170
Experience was a payoff for me.

1682
02:07:10,510 --> 02:07:11,710
I didn't get paid for six months.

1683
02:07:12,150 --> 02:07:13,290
Paul couldn't pay me.

1684
02:07:13,770 --> 02:07:17,250
When there was a little extra money, he
would give it to me.

1685
02:07:18,150 --> 02:07:21,190
I think Paulie ended up being kind of
his own worst enemy.

1686
02:07:21,810 --> 02:07:23,150
In my opinion...

1687
02:07:23,950 --> 02:07:26,350
You know, and I think it wasn't just
mine. I think it was just about

1688
02:07:26,350 --> 02:07:27,350
everybody's.

1689
02:07:27,830 --> 02:07:29,510
Paulie was never a businessman.

1690
02:07:30,170 --> 02:07:32,430
Paulie was a wrestling genius.

1691
02:07:32,750 --> 02:07:38,150
Paulie could come up with a storyline
just like that at the blink of an eye.

1692
02:07:38,150 --> 02:07:41,170
when it came down to business, Paulie
was horrible.

1693
02:07:41,590 --> 02:07:46,570
Our greatest asset was also our greatest
detriment, and that was Paul. As the

1694
02:07:46,570 --> 02:07:49,830
company expanded, I think it overwhelmed
him.

1695
02:07:54,320 --> 02:07:57,940
wanted to know everything and be part of
everything.

1696
02:07:58,580 --> 02:08:05,280
It was very frustrating working with a
guy who lived so close to the

1697
02:08:05,280 --> 02:08:11,240
edge that you constantly had to pull him
back in so he wouldn't commit suicide

1698
02:08:11,240 --> 02:08:13,340
on a business level.

1699
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:18,440
The only problem Paul had, I guess in
his own mind, was that there was only 24

1700
02:08:18,440 --> 02:08:20,460
hours in a day to get all the work done.

1701
02:08:20,810 --> 02:08:24,290
I feel that Paul Lee tried to do
everything by himself, and when it grows

1702
02:08:24,290 --> 02:08:27,110
the mom -and -pop to the subway, you
can't let it run like a mom -and -pop's

1703
02:08:27,110 --> 02:08:27,809
deli anymore.

1704
02:08:27,810 --> 02:08:32,230
You got to step up and give other people
some jobs and other things to do and

1705
02:08:32,230 --> 02:08:33,590
take some of the pressure off of you.

1706
02:08:33,870 --> 02:08:37,570
That man was doing everything. He was
writing. He was editing in the studio.

1707
02:08:37,570 --> 02:08:40,430
was sleeping two hours a night. And
sooner or later, it catches up to you.

1708
02:08:41,040 --> 02:08:45,100
And, you know, at the time then, the
right people didn't know what to do

1709
02:08:45,100 --> 02:08:47,840
he never really gave anybody else too
many different jobs.

1710
02:08:48,060 --> 02:08:50,620
I know we would always get on Paul Lee
for that. You need help. You need to

1711
02:08:50,620 --> 02:08:54,320
start trusting somebody. You need to do
something because it's too big for one

1712
02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:55,320
man to hold.

1713
02:08:56,000 --> 02:09:00,340
Paul Lee was just, Paul Lee was Paul
Lee. He was like a rebel without a

1714
02:09:00,460 --> 02:09:01,460
you know, in my opinion.

1715
02:09:02,080 --> 02:09:07,420
National TV was the next step for us. It
was the next necessary step in terms of

1716
02:09:07,420 --> 02:09:08,420
survival.

1717
02:09:08,620 --> 02:09:13,640
That was the main goal, to get on
mainstream TV in any way, shape, or

1718
02:09:14,080 --> 02:09:15,660
It took a long time, you know.

1719
02:09:16,520 --> 02:09:18,820
But, you know, he got there.

1720
02:09:19,760 --> 02:09:21,700
I think Paul should be commended for
that.

1721
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:26,740
And all of the talent underneath Paul
that helped get to that.

1722
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:31,220
This is ECW on TNA!

1723
02:09:31,960 --> 02:09:35,340
My thought, congratulations, I thought
this was going to be good. I thought

1724
02:09:35,340 --> 02:09:37,940
maybe Paul Heyman finally, you know,
was...

1725
02:09:38,430 --> 02:09:42,910
was going to be a player and maybe a
major player, I was in favor of that. I

1726
02:09:42,910 --> 02:09:46,670
called him up and congratulated him, as
I recall, and then said, Paul, but you

1727
02:09:46,670 --> 02:09:53,590
realize you have to change because you
are now not attempting to draw a

1728
02:09:53,590 --> 02:09:57,230
portion of the audience, as you have
been in the past. You called a small

1729
02:09:57,230 --> 02:10:01,530
segment, a high -risk segment of the
audience that enjoys what it is you do.

1730
02:10:02,170 --> 02:10:02,849
That's fine.

1731
02:10:02,850 --> 02:10:07,110
But now you're on a national platform.
You have to broaden out, and you have to

1732
02:10:07,110 --> 02:10:08,330
appeal to the masses now.

1733
02:10:08,790 --> 02:10:11,510
We didn't change it. We didn't change
the products for anyone.

1734
02:10:12,670 --> 02:10:16,350
It was the next holy grail after pay
-per -view. It was the next logical

1735
02:10:16,450 --> 02:10:17,910
It was a necessary step.

1736
02:10:18,130 --> 02:10:19,790
We would not have survived without it.

1737
02:10:20,270 --> 02:10:24,470
We would not have survived 1999 without
getting on national TV because we would

1738
02:10:24,470 --> 02:10:28,970
not have gotten a video game. We would
not have gotten a T -shirt distribution.

1739
02:10:29,190 --> 02:10:31,950
We would not have gotten DVD
distribution. We would not have gotten

1740
02:10:32,950 --> 02:10:38,070
And we only got these things, these
licenses and these outside deals because

1741
02:10:38,070 --> 02:10:39,090
were going to get on national TV.

1742
02:10:40,370 --> 02:10:44,350
We didn't have the best of equipment.

1743
02:10:44,770 --> 02:10:48,890
We didn't have the best ring. We didn't
have the best facilities. We didn't have

1744
02:10:48,890 --> 02:10:53,460
the... the huge lighting system that you
see today.

1745
02:10:54,160 --> 02:11:00,980
And with everything against us, with our
heart, with the

1746
02:11:00,980 --> 02:11:07,420
group effort of everyone's heart and
dedication and drive, we became a

1747
02:11:07,420 --> 02:11:08,420
company.

1748
02:11:08,680 --> 02:11:10,760
I'm a star on CNN!

1749
02:11:11,480 --> 02:11:16,820
Honey, how do you feel that? I was very
excited when ECW got us.

1750
02:11:17,420 --> 02:11:20,660
television do with TNN because up until
that time we had such limited exposure.

1751
02:11:20,980 --> 02:11:24,700
We had the pay -per -views and we had
some syndicated television that not

1752
02:11:24,700 --> 02:11:28,800
everybody got or if they did get it, it
was three in the morning sometimes, you

1753
02:11:28,800 --> 02:11:32,880
know, or it would be on sometimes,
sometimes it wouldn't be on and so a lot

1754
02:11:32,880 --> 02:11:37,880
people had to work really hard to try to
find us on TV and even the fans would

1755
02:11:37,880 --> 02:11:41,280
go so far as to trade videotapes, you
know, because they wanted to watch us.

1756
02:11:41,800 --> 02:11:46,700
I thought that, boom, we're on TNN, you
know, now it's going to be awesome. We

1757
02:11:46,700 --> 02:11:49,300
said we're going to do pay -per -view,
we did it. We said we're going to have

1758
02:11:49,300 --> 02:11:50,520
action figures, we did it.

1759
02:11:50,820 --> 02:11:54,060
We even had an ECW magazine, and now
we're going to be on every Friday night,

1760
02:11:54,120 --> 02:11:57,100
you know, and our fan base is going to
grow huge.

1761
02:11:57,500 --> 02:12:00,100
That's what we need. We'll have all the
support, and everything's going to take

1762
02:12:00,100 --> 02:12:01,100
off.

1763
02:12:01,940 --> 02:12:06,600
All the hype, all the talk, everybody's
saying it.

1764
02:12:07,880 --> 02:12:09,520
ECW and TNN.

1765
02:12:11,020 --> 02:12:14,140
ECW is going to take TNN to the extreme.

1766
02:12:15,660 --> 02:12:19,500
We found out that we're going on TNN and
we lost our heavyweight champion and

1767
02:12:19,500 --> 02:12:21,460
our tag team champions in a matter of
two weeks.

1768
02:12:22,540 --> 02:12:26,260
WWE came in and took a bunch of guys.
They took Taz and the Dudleys.

1769
02:12:26,660 --> 02:12:29,800
So we're having all of our top guys were
bailing.

1770
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:31,600
It was demoralizing.

1771
02:12:32,030 --> 02:12:38,370
I'd say ECW was affected a lot by the
main staples of the company leaving, and

1772
02:12:38,370 --> 02:12:42,570
that was just a problem where the
individuals were growing at a different

1773
02:12:42,570 --> 02:12:43,710
than the company was growing.

1774
02:12:44,230 --> 02:12:49,070
You feel like you're not only losing
someone that's great for the product,

1775
02:12:49,070 --> 02:12:52,230
also someone that, you know, you're
friends with. And so it's sort of

1776
02:12:52,230 --> 02:12:56,410
bittersweet. You wish them the best
going on, but then all of a sudden

1777
02:12:56,410 --> 02:13:00,450
saying at the same time, you know, I
wish they wouldn't go.

1778
02:13:02,790 --> 02:13:08,530
Leaving the ECW to come to the WWE was,
you know, was very hard.

1779
02:13:09,030 --> 02:13:14,910
I think it definitely was damaging to
ECW because Taz was their man, you know.

1780
02:13:15,050 --> 02:13:20,450
And it built Taz up to be this, you
know, this sawed -off monster, you know,

1781
02:13:20,450 --> 02:13:25,030
suplex king and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, I enjoyed Taz's work.

1782
02:13:25,390 --> 02:13:27,570
Paul Heyman and I never had a contract.

1783
02:13:28,010 --> 02:13:29,370
We had a handshake agreement.

1784
02:13:30,360 --> 02:13:33,500
You know, and it goes back to when I
broke my neck and the man paid me.

1785
02:13:33,820 --> 02:13:36,260
I knew I could trust him. He did right
by me.

1786
02:13:37,640 --> 02:13:39,080
WWE's doing phenomenal business.

1787
02:13:39,500 --> 02:13:40,860
WCW's doing phenomenal business.

1788
02:13:41,380 --> 02:13:45,980
ECW's about to hit on TNN. We're doing
great business. I'm negotiating with

1789
02:13:46,180 --> 02:13:49,220
I'm the champion here, about to go on
cable TV, primetime.

1790
02:13:49,780 --> 02:13:54,680
And, you know, my agreement's ending in
a few months.

1791
02:13:56,220 --> 02:13:57,340
Am I a bad guy?

1792
02:13:58,320 --> 02:14:04,740
If I explore other options or if people
come to me and want to utilize my skills

1793
02:14:04,740 --> 02:14:09,740
or my talents or lack thereof or
whatever and make an offer to me, is

1794
02:14:09,960 --> 02:14:13,160
Am I a bad guy because I listen to those
offers?

1795
02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:14,920
No.

1796
02:14:15,080 --> 02:14:19,320
I have a family, and I got to do what's
right for them, and I got to do what's

1797
02:14:19,320 --> 02:14:20,320
right for me.

1798
02:14:20,340 --> 02:14:26,560
The main thing for me to leave ECW
wasn't just a concern for money.

1799
02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:35,340
It was the concern of my heart, my body,
my mind, and my

1800
02:14:35,340 --> 02:14:38,260
passion to wrestle for ECW.

1801
02:14:40,440 --> 02:14:46,280
I was main eventing pay -per -views as
the heavyweight champion, and it got to

1802
02:14:46,280 --> 02:14:50,220
point where it was like, okay, I don't,
now what?

1803
02:14:50,600 --> 02:14:51,600
What am I going to do?

1804
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:56,940
This is not, I'm having fun, but it's
like the edge is gone, the butterflies

1805
02:14:56,940 --> 02:14:57,940
gone.

1806
02:14:58,730 --> 02:15:00,010
There was no challenge anymore.

1807
02:15:00,270 --> 02:15:03,010
It became too easy for me. I became
complacent.

1808
02:15:03,390 --> 02:15:07,330
I just didn't, it just wasn't the same
for me. I didn't have that challenge.

1809
02:15:08,370 --> 02:15:11,330
And I just, it was strange. It just was
like, it just happened.

1810
02:15:15,930 --> 02:15:20,530
My last

1811
02:15:20,530 --> 02:15:25,350
official match.

1812
02:15:25,820 --> 02:15:29,520
on pay -per -view for ECW was Anarchy
Rules in 1999.

1813
02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:34,380
And everyone, I guess, the fans somehow
knew that I was going to WWE.

1814
02:15:36,600 --> 02:15:39,380
Basically, the way the match works, it's
a triple threat, and it's elimination.

1815
02:15:39,540 --> 02:15:42,620
If you lose, you walk back, and then the
other two guys go at it, you know what

1816
02:15:42,620 --> 02:15:43,478
I mean?

1817
02:15:43,480 --> 02:15:46,600
I was the first one to lose, and the
whole place was like, whoa, the champion

1818
02:15:46,600 --> 02:15:47,940
just got beaten in like four minutes.

1819
02:15:48,260 --> 02:15:50,320
Now Tanaka and The Awesome's going to go
at it.

1820
02:16:17,090 --> 02:16:21,190
All the boys in the back are coming out.
They can't believe it. We can't believe

1821
02:16:21,190 --> 02:16:26,690
it. The fans can't believe it. The story
of it is, for me, was when I was

1822
02:16:26,690 --> 02:16:28,330
walking down the ramp there.

1823
02:16:29,130 --> 02:16:33,170
The whole locker room, the whole ECW
locker room came out with Paul Heyman in

1824
02:16:33,170 --> 02:16:34,770
the front. I didn't know that was going
to happen.

1825
02:16:35,170 --> 02:16:38,629
In front of thousands of people in
Chicago, we had a great house on pay

1826
02:16:38,629 --> 02:16:39,629
-view.

1827
02:16:40,389 --> 02:16:43,770
And I said goodbye to me, live on pay
-per -view.

1828
02:16:44,770 --> 02:16:50,150
And I, you know, I broke down, you know
what I mean? It was amazing, you know.

1829
02:16:51,170 --> 02:16:53,370
And Paul hugged me, you know, right
there on the ramp.

1830
02:16:54,270 --> 02:16:55,570
And I had his blessing there.

1831
02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:05,040
That was a good way to say goodbye.

1832
02:17:07,059 --> 02:17:09,440
Dudleys, I think, have done extremely
well here.

1833
02:17:10,299 --> 02:17:16,020
And that was, again, a big deal. The
Dudleys were synonymous with ECW.

1834
02:17:16,559 --> 02:17:17,760
Devon, get the tables.

1835
02:17:18,500 --> 02:17:24,700
So that had to go to the heart, I would
imagine, of ECW's talent roster.

1836
02:17:24,920 --> 02:17:27,820
That was the heart and soul, probably,
of the entire roster.

1837
02:17:28,260 --> 02:17:30,500
Me and Devon knew that it was time.

1838
02:17:32,520 --> 02:17:37,540
To do something, because we saw that the
financial problems were really having

1839
02:17:37,540 --> 02:17:38,540
an effect on the company.

1840
02:17:38,860 --> 02:17:42,080
Myself and Devon were never owed a dime
by Paul Heyman.

1841
02:17:42,320 --> 02:17:46,240
We cannot ever turn around and say he
owes us money. He doesn't.

1842
02:17:46,600 --> 02:17:47,799
Paulie always paid me.

1843
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:49,799
Paulie always paid Devon.

1844
02:17:51,360 --> 02:17:56,760
We never thought that we eventually one
day were going to jump to WWE, but we

1845
02:17:56,760 --> 02:18:00,160
had to start thinking about it. And when
we got the phone call, we sat down with

1846
02:18:00,160 --> 02:18:01,219
Paulie and said, listen, they called.

1847
02:18:02,519 --> 02:18:04,139
Now, we'd like to hear from you.

1848
02:18:05,000 --> 02:18:08,420
Paulie told us, I can't compete with
them and I can't compete with their

1849
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:09,680
We said, we're not asking you to.

1850
02:18:10,280 --> 02:18:12,480
Do something to keep us here.

1851
02:18:12,780 --> 02:18:17,520
Make us understand that you appreciate
the fact that we put our bodies on the

1852
02:18:17,520 --> 02:18:18,520
line for you.

1853
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:23,620
Paulie thought that he could not compete
with them. And that's the day I think I

1854
02:18:23,620 --> 02:18:30,320
truly learned that ECW was the minor
league and the breeding ground for WWE.

1855
02:18:32,140 --> 02:18:36,740
Paul had instilled in everyone and in
myself, you want to leave? Goodbye.

1856
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:41,660
The Dudleys asked for $1 raise before
they came to WWE.

1857
02:18:41,900 --> 02:18:43,139
The Dudleys did not want to come here.

1858
02:18:44,680 --> 02:18:47,400
They asked for $1 more, and Paul said,
absolutely not.

1859
02:18:48,219 --> 02:18:51,900
And he said, I can't compete with WCW. I
can't compete with WWE financially.

1860
02:18:52,379 --> 02:18:53,980
People stay here because they want to
stay here.

1861
02:18:54,260 --> 02:19:01,000
I felt that the reason why ECW was at
the level that they were at, was because

1862
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:05,320
helped contribute to it, along with
other ECW stars at that time.

1863
02:19:05,660 --> 02:19:12,540
And it was hard for me to actually sign
the contract to come here because it was

1864
02:19:12,540 --> 02:19:14,040
almost like I felt so guilty.

1865
02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:15,680
It was almost like a marriage.

1866
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:22,879
The Dudley boys, these birds, fly this
group and sing their swan song. It's

1867
02:19:22,879 --> 02:19:26,459
their final evening in Extreme
Championship Wrestling.

1868
02:19:27,920 --> 02:19:29,100
It's the greatest match.

1869
02:19:29,580 --> 02:19:35,860
than I think that me and Bubba had ever
had in ECW on TV. Had to be the last

1870
02:19:35,860 --> 02:19:39,780
night we were there, right before we
came to the WWE.

1871
02:19:41,280 --> 02:19:43,280
3D, go, go, go!

1872
02:19:45,180 --> 02:19:49,640
At that point in time, the fans were
irate about that, and I think there was

1873
02:19:49,640 --> 02:19:52,520
some speculation in some of the fans'
minds that we weren't going anywhere,

1874
02:19:52,920 --> 02:19:55,960
because that was supposed to be our last
night, but yet we won the titles.

1875
02:19:57,180 --> 02:19:58,600
It's an unthinkable...

1876
02:20:00,330 --> 02:20:01,790
unprecedented, unfathomable situation.

1877
02:20:02,550 --> 02:20:06,970
Tag team, their last night in a
promotion, win the World Tag Team title

1878
02:20:07,030 --> 02:20:11,370
The Dudley boys now eight -time World
Tag Team champions. I guess I should be

1879
02:20:11,370 --> 02:20:15,630
big shill and say, hey, glad it happened
on ECW on TNN, but I'm not glad. Let's

1880
02:20:15,630 --> 02:20:16,269
be honest.

1881
02:20:16,270 --> 02:20:21,430
You're witnessing a very uncomfortable
and scary moment for everyone here at

1882
02:20:21,430 --> 02:20:25,270
Extreme Championship Wrestling. I mean,
the Dudleys are going to leave with a

1883
02:20:25,270 --> 02:20:26,710
World Tag Team title belt?

1884
02:20:28,000 --> 02:20:32,840
We went in the back and came back out
and said that we were going to take

1885
02:20:32,840 --> 02:20:36,740
titles and lay them on the desk of Vince
McMahon.

1886
02:20:58,220 --> 02:20:59,260
become legends!

1887
02:21:01,340 --> 02:21:03,360
And we called out Tommy Dreamer.

1888
02:21:03,960 --> 02:21:07,420
We started getting on him about his
girlfriend and how we broke his

1889
02:21:07,420 --> 02:21:11,640
neck. Dreamer comes in the ring and we
start beating him up and then out of

1890
02:21:11,640 --> 02:21:14,100
nowhere, Raven comes in.

1891
02:21:15,400 --> 02:21:20,200
Raven returned from WCW. He walked out
on WCW. She wasn't happy.

1892
02:21:21,840 --> 02:21:25,460
There was a lot of turmoil going on over
there in WCW.

1893
02:21:26,090 --> 02:21:31,990
And Raven left and he came back. And the
Dudleys at this point were leaving to

1894
02:21:31,990 --> 02:21:32,990
come to WWE.

1895
02:21:33,190 --> 02:21:37,730
And Raven and I won the tag team titles
together. And we were tag team partners

1896
02:21:37,730 --> 02:21:39,030
that hated each other.

1897
02:21:39,490 --> 02:21:41,370
The people went crazy.

1898
02:21:41,910 --> 02:21:45,510
And I think that's the most memorable
moment I think I can ever remember.

1899
02:21:46,540 --> 02:21:51,760
We were the highest rated show on TNN at
the time, and we always felt that they

1900
02:21:51,760 --> 02:21:55,660
were, I guess, using us as a lead -in
for Rollerball or whatever, Rollerjam,

1901
02:21:55,800 --> 02:21:58,400
Rollerball, whatever that stupid
rollerblading show was.

1902
02:21:58,880 --> 02:22:03,460
Welcome back to ECW Wrestling on TNN.
You still have about a half an hour left

1903
02:22:03,460 --> 02:22:08,060
of hardcore wrestling action, and then
the Friday Night Thrill Zone continues.

1904
02:22:08,300 --> 02:22:12,600
At the top of the next hour, it's the
season premiere of Rollerjam and a

1905
02:22:12,600 --> 02:22:17,760
rematch. from last year's Founders Cup
championship as the California Quakes

1906
02:22:17,760 --> 02:22:20,100
defend against the New York Enforcers.

1907
02:22:20,420 --> 02:22:24,640
We were the guinea pigs just to see if
wrestling would fly on that network.

1908
02:22:25,360 --> 02:22:32,220
They sent back everything. Our first
show had a video, and they sent it

1909
02:22:32,220 --> 02:22:35,880
back saying, we don't want any music
videos on this show.

1910
02:22:36,380 --> 02:22:41,640
They didn't want our opening theme song
because they felt it was too demonic.

1911
02:22:42,730 --> 02:22:46,650
They didn't want references to hatred.

1912
02:22:46,890 --> 02:22:48,190
I hate you.

1913
02:22:48,870 --> 02:22:49,870
Can't say that.

1914
02:22:50,910 --> 02:22:53,150
Intense dislike is what we prefer.

1915
02:22:54,750 --> 02:22:55,930
It was horrible.

1916
02:22:57,050 --> 02:23:00,310
Paul loved to push the envelope.

1917
02:23:01,510 --> 02:23:04,970
He loved to test network patience.

1918
02:23:05,990 --> 02:23:09,890
The first show we went on TNN, we were
supposed to give them brand new

1919
02:23:09,890 --> 02:23:11,050
wrestling, and he...

1920
02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:16,880
He didn't like our TNN shoot that we
did, and he aired Rob Van Dambris, Jerry

1921
02:23:16,880 --> 02:23:20,940
Lynn from a pay -per -view on the first
night. He did not give them what they

1922
02:23:20,940 --> 02:23:21,940
wanted.

1923
02:23:23,640 --> 02:23:24,640
Just how he was.

1924
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:47,960
I created a character called Cyrus, who
was the representative of the network

1925
02:23:47,960 --> 02:23:54,600
and who enforced all the censorship and
was the lead heel for ECW

1926
02:23:54,600 --> 02:23:59,920
because the network wanted things done a
certain way. The network wanted a

1927
02:23:59,920 --> 02:24:03,840
certain champion. The network wanted a
certain look. And it was very true to

1928
02:24:03,840 --> 02:24:07,720
life. The network is not very happy.

1929
02:24:09,920 --> 02:24:14,040
We walked in thinking this was the
answer to all of our problems, and it

1930
02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:18,260
the albatross that dragged us down
underwater.

1931
02:24:19,780 --> 02:24:24,200
We had a pretty bad deal with them where
we had relatively no commercial time,

1932
02:24:24,340 --> 02:24:30,800
no money for the show, and yet they
expected very high production value,

1933
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:34,760
was a problem in itself because Paul
didn't want to change the look of the

1934
02:24:34,760 --> 02:24:38,340
or the integrity of the product. They
wanted to come in with...

1935
02:24:39,020 --> 02:24:44,080
you know five cameras and try to compete
on vince's level and paul knew that we

1936
02:24:44,080 --> 02:24:47,720
could never compete on vince's level we
didn't have the money to put up the

1937
02:24:47,720 --> 02:24:52,380
lighting for the fireworks the you know
the big production so we wanted to be

1938
02:24:52,380 --> 02:24:53,380
counterculture

1939
02:24:54,060 --> 02:24:58,140
Nothing ever was really put into the
company. There was never a commercial

1940
02:24:58,140 --> 02:25:01,180
ECW ever, except for while you were
watching the show.

1941
02:25:01,400 --> 02:25:05,680
There was no promotion added to it, and
it got to be a point to where it

1942
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:11,420
actually seemed to add a lot of expenses
for ECW to actually be on the TV show.

1943
02:25:11,900 --> 02:25:16,840
Not one mention on the radio, not one
press release, not one phone call to a

1944
02:25:16,840 --> 02:25:17,840
newspaper, nothing.

1945
02:25:18,100 --> 02:25:21,760
You could have the best product in the
world, but if no one could see it, no

1946
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:22,760
knows where you are.

1947
02:25:23,530 --> 02:25:24,530
Ain't going to watch it.

1948
02:25:25,030 --> 02:25:28,930
We're spending ourselves into a hole
just to provide the production values

1949
02:25:28,930 --> 02:25:30,410
necessary to stay on the network.

1950
02:25:31,450 --> 02:25:35,770
We have all of these licenses and
sponsors and advertisers that are

1951
02:25:35,770 --> 02:25:39,790
us because we're on national television,
so we can't dump out of the deal. And

1952
02:25:39,790 --> 02:25:46,550
they are publicly negotiating with WWE
to bring that show onto their

1953
02:25:46,550 --> 02:25:48,910
network just to throw us off.

1954
02:25:49,580 --> 02:25:53,980
And since this show apparently is going
to make air this week, I'd like to take

1955
02:25:53,980 --> 02:25:56,000
this moment to thank you for watching
ECW.

1956
02:25:56,420 --> 02:26:00,860
You have to be an ECW fan to watch this
show because God knows the network has

1957
02:26:00,860 --> 02:26:04,640
never put out one freaking commercial or
one press release to let you know that

1958
02:26:04,640 --> 02:26:07,080
we're here. But that's their scheme of
things.

1959
02:26:07,960 --> 02:26:12,740
You see, in just a few weeks, the
network is going to give $100 million to

1960
02:26:12,740 --> 02:26:16,020
McMahon like he needs it to replace us.

1961
02:26:16,870 --> 02:26:18,990
In case they haven't thrown us off
before then.

1962
02:26:19,470 --> 02:26:23,630
And the fact of the matter is, we're not
a publicly funded company like Vince

1963
02:26:23,630 --> 02:26:30,470
McMahon or WCW. We survive or even
thrive on your support. And for

1964
02:26:30,470 --> 02:26:31,990
that, we thank you.

1965
02:26:32,470 --> 02:26:36,410
Now, in an industry where everybody
wants to be real and everybody wants to

1966
02:26:36,410 --> 02:26:38,930
shoot, this, my friends, is a shoot.

1967
02:26:39,600 --> 02:26:41,380
We hate this thinking network.

1968
02:26:41,620 --> 02:26:46,280
We hate their guts for abandoning us. We
hate their guts for not supporting us.

1969
02:26:46,360 --> 02:26:50,540
We hate their guts for not advertising
us. And we hate their guts for not

1970
02:26:50,540 --> 02:26:52,600
the balls to throw us off the air.

1971
02:26:52,880 --> 02:26:57,280
And just in case you're watching this,
hey, network, I dare you to throw me off

1972
02:26:57,280 --> 02:26:57,979
the air.

1973
02:26:57,980 --> 02:27:01,660
Because I'm going to break every rule
that you put in front of me until you

1974
02:27:01,660 --> 02:27:04,020
throw me the hell off the air.

1975
02:27:04,580 --> 02:27:07,100
Now this, my friends, is a shoot.

1976
02:27:07,980 --> 02:27:12,860
You better take that $100 million that
you're going to give Vince McMahon, and

1977
02:27:12,860 --> 02:27:19,360
you better spend it on attorneys,
because I promise you, network, the war

1978
02:27:19,360 --> 02:27:21,720
has just begun.

1979
02:27:23,820 --> 02:27:24,820
We're dead.

1980
02:27:24,940 --> 02:27:29,160
We're dead, and we can't get out of the
line of fire. And we're just taking

1981
02:27:29,160 --> 02:27:33,540
bullet after bullet after bullet after
bullet after all these years of hard

1982
02:27:33,540 --> 02:27:35,560
work, and we're just watching somebody.

1983
02:27:36,970 --> 02:27:41,830
cannibalize us, and we're powerless to
do anything about it. I think the last

1984
02:27:41,830 --> 02:27:42,910
straw is when Taz left.

1985
02:27:43,230 --> 02:27:46,810
And from then on, all you had was really
Rob Van Dam.

1986
02:27:48,070 --> 02:27:51,250
ECW is back on CNN, and Van Dam is here,
boy!

1987
02:27:53,690 --> 02:27:58,070
He was Rob Van Dam. He was RVD. He was
Mr.

1988
02:27:58,350 --> 02:27:59,289
Monday Night.

1989
02:27:59,290 --> 02:28:02,030
He was a laid -back butt braggadocious.

1990
02:28:03,080 --> 02:28:06,660
He was a cool but brazen personality.

1991
02:28:07,320 --> 02:28:12,540
People latched on to him. And there was
no need to add all these garnishings and

1992
02:28:12,540 --> 02:28:17,140
all these added accoutrements to Rob Van
Dam. He was what they wanted. He was

1993
02:28:17,140 --> 02:28:18,300
the meal in and of itself.

1994
02:28:20,060 --> 02:28:21,740
The fans love Mr.

1995
02:28:22,160 --> 02:28:23,740
PPV RVD.

1996
02:28:26,060 --> 02:28:31,040
By the way, he's called Mr. Pay -Per
-View because every one of his matches

1997
02:28:31,040 --> 02:28:33,800
worth paying your hard -earned money to
see.

1998
02:28:34,980 --> 02:28:37,440
They wanted to see him wrestle. They
wanted to see him do his thing. They

1999
02:28:37,440 --> 02:28:41,100
to see him point his thumbs. They wanted
to see him do his laid -back cool

2000
02:28:41,100 --> 02:28:43,920
interviews. They wanted to see him talk
about 420.

2001
02:28:45,000 --> 02:28:48,260
Rob Van Dam was a lot different. Rob Van
Dam was a different type of attraction

2002
02:28:48,260 --> 02:28:52,240
than I had ever seen in wrestling
because usually in wrestling you need to

2003
02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:55,660
guy in a heated situation where, you
know, I hate you and I'm going to get my

2004
02:28:55,660 --> 02:28:58,760
revenge on you. And that wasn't the case
with Rob Van Dam. People didn't want to

2005
02:28:58,760 --> 02:28:59,760
hear that about him.

2006
02:29:14,190 --> 02:29:18,970
At the time, I was the reigning
television champion, and because of the

2007
02:29:18,970 --> 02:29:24,450
of the matches that I was having
consistently that they could count on,

2008
02:29:24,450 --> 02:29:29,390
television title actually was meaning as
much, if not more, depending on whose

2009
02:29:29,390 --> 02:29:30,390
perspective.

2010
02:29:30,870 --> 02:29:31,870
than a heavyweight title.

2011
02:29:32,010 --> 02:29:35,930
And so that was something really strong
in the company to have those two rival

2012
02:29:35,930 --> 02:29:40,310
belts. And we were actually, you know,
maybe one moment we'll actually see the

2013
02:29:40,310 --> 02:29:43,330
TV champion and heavyweight champ, you
know, go ahead and find out which one

2014
02:29:43,330 --> 02:29:48,490
really does me more. Well, I broke my
ankle, and so I'm out of the picture for

2015
02:29:48,490 --> 02:29:52,350
three months. I could no longer defend
that title. After holding the title for

2016
02:29:52,350 --> 02:29:57,410
23 months and at the time being the
longest reigning champion, I had to

2017
02:29:57,410 --> 02:29:58,410
the title.

2018
02:30:11,310 --> 02:30:16,450
of the standard I've set is the ECW
World Television Champion.

2019
02:31:06,890 --> 02:31:13,410
Mike Awesome was our champion. He went
to WCW while he was under contract with

2020
02:31:13,410 --> 02:31:18,210
us. They sent the cops to Nitro to get
the belt because Eric Bischoff wanted

2021
02:31:18,210 --> 02:31:19,330
to throw the belt in the trash.

2022
02:31:40,490 --> 02:31:45,910
I guess WWE was trying to do some
business and help out ECW and Paul

2023
02:31:45,910 --> 02:31:49,730
little bit, just with some stuff,
because they had a situation, they being

2024
02:31:49,810 --> 02:31:54,490
with their champion at the time. It was
Mike Austin.

2025
02:31:55,370 --> 02:31:59,890
Basically what happened at the end of
the day, I ended up showing up at a

2026
02:31:59,890 --> 02:32:06,330
show that ECW did in Indianapolis,
Indiana, and surprise, you know,

2027
02:32:06,370 --> 02:32:08,610
faced Mike Austin.

2028
02:32:10,700 --> 02:32:15,800
is here to stand up for ECW, to stand up
to Mike Austin.

2029
02:32:17,380 --> 02:32:24,140
It's the first time ever in history that
a WWE wrestler, contractor wrestler, is

2030
02:32:24,140 --> 02:32:29,900
going to face a WCW contractor wrestler
at an ECW event for the ECW

2031
02:32:29,900 --> 02:32:30,900
championship.

2032
02:32:31,060 --> 02:32:32,900
So we were all part of history.

2033
02:33:36,740 --> 02:33:43,600
And then showed up and wrestled on Raw
and with

2034
02:33:43,600 --> 02:33:47,620
it and wrestled Triple H on SmackDown
with it. And at the time, Triple H was a

2035
02:33:47,620 --> 02:33:48,620
WWE champ.

2036
02:33:48,950 --> 02:33:51,870
And, you know, it was pretty wild.

2037
02:34:53,610 --> 02:34:58,250
History's difficult, you know. It really
is when you look back on things and you

2038
02:34:58,250 --> 02:35:01,550
say, well, that doesn't speak too well
of me trying to help that brand, does

2039
02:35:01,770 --> 02:35:05,890
And it doesn't speak too well. And I
can't tell you what my frame of mind was

2040
02:35:05,890 --> 02:35:09,090
that time. All I can tell you is I'm
sure I thought it was the right thing to

2041
02:35:09,090 --> 02:35:10,090
at the time.

2042
02:35:10,770 --> 02:35:15,790
And then the next week, I beat Taz for
the belt in the ECW arena.

2043
02:35:25,900 --> 02:35:27,160
Thank you very much.

2044
02:35:32,540 --> 02:35:33,980
I won that.

2045
02:35:36,240 --> 02:35:39,800
The place was, they watched Tommy
Dreamer mature finally.

2046
02:35:40,120 --> 02:35:43,100
And after seven years in that company, I
mean, people were crying.

2047
02:35:43,440 --> 02:35:47,600
The night I won the belt, I was actually
pissed off. I wanted to go my entire

2048
02:35:47,600 --> 02:35:50,200
ECW career without ever winning a title.

2049
02:35:50,860 --> 02:35:52,660
When Mike Awesome left,

2050
02:35:53,620 --> 02:35:56,700
Paul put the belt on me because he knew
I wasn't going anywhere.

2051
02:35:56,980 --> 02:36:00,080
The only reason why I won titles was
because guys left.

2052
02:36:00,740 --> 02:36:05,140
You serve a lot of masters when you're a
national television platform.

2053
02:36:05,680 --> 02:36:09,380
One of the masters, the ultimate master,
is the audience. You've got to make the

2054
02:36:09,380 --> 02:36:12,480
audience happy. But at the same time,
you've got to make advertisers happy.

2055
02:36:12,740 --> 02:36:15,760
You've got to make sure that the network
that you're associated with has a

2056
02:36:15,760 --> 02:36:17,680
comfort level with your content.

2057
02:36:18,000 --> 02:36:21,600
And then, of course, you have all the
fringe groups out there that are trying

2058
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:27,280
to... convince the world that they
should be able to tell you what you

2059
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:29,600
television. So you've got to balance all
of that.

2060
02:36:30,080 --> 02:36:33,260
Paul's content didn't take that into
consideration.

2061
02:36:33,660 --> 02:36:37,880
It was too narrow. It appealed to a very
small, hardcore audience, and

2062
02:36:37,880 --> 02:36:41,540
advertisers didn't want to have anything
to do with it. Therefore, a network

2063
02:36:41,540 --> 02:36:43,500
didn't really want to support it much.

2064
02:36:44,000 --> 02:36:48,320
Pay -per -view companies didn't feel
really comfortable with the type of

2065
02:36:48,320 --> 02:36:53,150
because... You know, there was some
backlash attached to it. So you couldn't

2066
02:36:53,150 --> 02:36:58,170
serve that hardcore master and build a
mainstream audience at the same time.

2067
02:36:58,250 --> 02:37:03,730
Just couldn't do it. It was destined to
be a small, closely held,

2068
02:37:03,850 --> 02:37:06,830
regional, in many ways, promotion.

2069
02:37:07,510 --> 02:37:09,510
The plan was to find a new network.

2070
02:37:10,130 --> 02:37:13,330
But we couldn't negotiate with a new
network because that would be in

2071
02:37:13,330 --> 02:37:14,550
of our deal with TNN.

2072
02:37:14,810 --> 02:37:17,150
So we're boxed into staying on TNN.

2073
02:37:17,530 --> 02:37:22,270
And we had to wait until they publicly
declared their intention to cancel our

2074
02:37:22,270 --> 02:37:24,710
show before we could even talk to
anybody else.

2075
02:37:25,110 --> 02:37:28,410
We were on for a year, a little more.

2076
02:37:29,130 --> 02:37:35,250
And they didn't live up to their part of
the deal.

2077
02:37:36,090 --> 02:37:38,650
And then they also acquired WWE
programming.

2078
02:37:40,030 --> 02:37:41,770
And then we got kicked to the curb.

2079
02:37:42,390 --> 02:37:45,770
So we lost our time slot. We couldn't
get on any other network.

2080
02:37:47,280 --> 02:37:50,160
And also at that time, it was a horrible
time.

2081
02:37:50,600 --> 02:37:53,380
We were, sometimes we weren't making
payroll.

2082
02:37:54,340 --> 02:37:55,460
Guys' checks were bouncing.

2083
02:37:56,300 --> 02:38:00,580
And, you know, that gets out there, too.
And a company that looks like it's

2084
02:38:00,580 --> 02:38:05,740
starting to sink, I don't think a lot of
TV companies were going to pick us up.

2085
02:38:06,040 --> 02:38:07,040
And they didn't.

2086
02:38:07,380 --> 02:38:09,020
Was it successful business -wise?

2087
02:38:09,320 --> 02:38:13,140
You know, well, certainly it was for the
short term. You know, for the long

2088
02:38:13,140 --> 02:38:14,140
term, no.

2089
02:38:15,450 --> 02:38:19,510
But I think, again, and it's easy for me
to say this, too, you know, because I

2090
02:38:19,510 --> 02:38:24,410
wasn't Paul Heyman in the trenches with
my talent at the same time thinking, you

2091
02:38:24,410 --> 02:38:27,350
know, hey, look, this got us this far
with us against the world. And why

2092
02:38:27,350 --> 02:38:30,950
I change now? And I can understand why
Paul didn't change. It's just that once

2093
02:38:30,950 --> 02:38:35,470
you have a national platform, you know,
then you have to appeal to a national

2094
02:38:35,470 --> 02:38:39,510
audience. You no longer can appeal to
just one small segment of it. I think

2095
02:38:39,510 --> 02:38:43,730
was the downfall, you know, of ECW. But
that's my own personal view as a

2096
02:38:43,730 --> 02:38:44,730
businessman.

2097
02:38:45,279 --> 02:38:46,820
I didn't think it was going to fold.

2098
02:38:47,200 --> 02:38:49,280
This was Paul's baby.

2099
02:38:50,240 --> 02:38:55,560
And we had a choice of look for work
elsewhere or try and stick with this guy

2100
02:38:55,560 --> 02:38:58,440
that's been bouncing checks to us for
two years.

2101
02:38:59,440 --> 02:39:02,960
So it was kind of a tough call, but, you
know, I stuck around, and a lot of the

2102
02:39:02,960 --> 02:39:05,800
guys did, and I don't know, we just hung
in there.

2103
02:39:06,020 --> 02:39:08,620
There was a lot of guys that weren't
going to have anywhere else to go.

2104
02:39:08,920 --> 02:39:10,540
You know, they weren't going to be able
to just...

2105
02:39:10,890 --> 02:39:15,170
take off and start their you know work
in japan or work for one of the other

2106
02:39:15,170 --> 02:39:18,970
companies so a lot of the guys had no
choice but to stay there you know they

2107
02:39:18,970 --> 02:39:23,570
you want me to show up next saturday in
nashville tennessee you know okay i'm

2108
02:39:23,570 --> 02:39:28,430
there we still went to the shows and
everyone still worked there tails off

2109
02:39:28,430 --> 02:39:31,870
he would tell you if you don't want to
work tonight i can't pay you if you want

2110
02:39:31,870 --> 02:39:37,830
to work go ahead maybe i could pay you
from what we made tonight and a lot of

2111
02:39:37,830 --> 02:39:39,030
people owed a lot of money

2112
02:39:42,030 --> 02:39:45,630
And Paul would say, you're going to get
it, you're going to get it, because we

2113
02:39:45,630 --> 02:39:46,630
were so close.

2114
02:39:47,130 --> 02:39:50,810
It was heartbreaking how close we were.

2115
02:39:51,160 --> 02:39:56,240
I knew that ECW was over when I was owed
so much money that I knew there was

2116
02:39:56,240 --> 02:39:59,180
actually no way that I was going to get
paid that. I mean, there was no hope

2117
02:39:59,180 --> 02:40:03,080
whatsoever of recovering that. While I
was still getting paid in other areas,

2118
02:40:03,240 --> 02:40:07,260
you know, which was keeping me going,
there was other money that I just wasn't

2119
02:40:07,260 --> 02:40:10,940
going to get, and it was building. And
when it built to a level to where I had

2120
02:40:10,940 --> 02:40:15,960
to draw the line, I knew I was out, and
I also could see that they were going to

2121
02:40:15,960 --> 02:40:16,960
go belly up as well.

2122
02:40:19,210 --> 02:40:22,810
And then it was getting rough because
now all of the signs were coming in that

2123
02:40:22,810 --> 02:40:23,930
the company was going down.

2124
02:40:24,370 --> 02:40:28,050
I don't know where the money went. It
seemed like business was good. It wasn't

2125
02:40:28,050 --> 02:40:29,150
like we were working in front of nobody.

2126
02:40:29,430 --> 02:40:30,530
The people were there.

2127
02:40:31,170 --> 02:40:35,910
But towards the end, you just knew it
was going. And unfortunately, in

2128
02:40:35,930 --> 02:40:36,930
we had our last show.

2129
02:40:37,110 --> 02:40:42,270
I remember everybody went out in the
ring, and I wouldn't go out there

2130
02:40:42,270 --> 02:40:43,470
didn't think it was over.

2131
02:40:43,980 --> 02:40:47,300
I was there until the end of the show
and everything, but I wouldn't go out

2132
02:40:47,300 --> 02:40:51,620
there because I believed in my heart it
wasn't over.

2133
02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:55,700
It was going out, and I knew it was
going out, and I tried to make some

2134
02:40:55,700 --> 02:40:58,880
calls. You know, it was all of a sudden,
next thing I knew, I was out of a job.

2135
02:40:58,960 --> 02:41:03,860
And then right after ECW closed, WCW
closed. So now, within a month, you got

2136
02:41:03,860 --> 02:41:07,840
companies that closed, you got 90
wrestlers on the market, and you got WWE

2137
02:41:07,840 --> 02:41:12,730
there. I remember looking on the
Internet, on the ECW website, to look if

2138
02:41:12,730 --> 02:41:13,730
were any dates announced.

2139
02:41:14,410 --> 02:41:15,670
I didn't want it to end.

2140
02:41:15,970 --> 02:41:17,450
You know, I was somebody.

2141
02:41:17,670 --> 02:41:18,850
I felt like somebody.

2142
02:41:19,090 --> 02:41:23,350
I was proud of what I've accomplished
there. I was living a dream.

2143
02:41:23,670 --> 02:41:28,310
And I was definitely in denial for a
couple years after it closed because it

2144
02:41:28,310 --> 02:41:29,990
hard to close that chapter of my life.

2145
02:41:31,370 --> 02:41:35,990
The day it ended, when I received that
phone call from Paul and said, that's

2146
02:41:36,050 --> 02:41:37,050
Dawn, it's over.

2147
02:41:38,640 --> 02:41:44,920
I thought my life stopped because it was
taken away without notice.

2148
02:41:46,140 --> 02:41:52,240
And I didn't receive a job here at the
WWE for almost two years later.

2149
02:41:53,340 --> 02:41:57,680
So it was a reality that I may never,
ever walk out to that ring again.

2150
02:41:58,900 --> 02:42:01,780
We're probably the only company to ever
go out of business that still had a lot

2151
02:42:01,780 --> 02:42:03,320
of fans at the shows.

2152
02:42:03,700 --> 02:42:07,220
We were selling out our pay -per -views,
doing great, and yet we went out of

2153
02:42:07,220 --> 02:42:08,220
business.

2154
02:42:09,040 --> 02:42:14,600
The downfall of ECW was probably two
things.

2155
02:42:15,780 --> 02:42:17,980
The violence did have a lot to do with
it.

2156
02:42:18,440 --> 02:42:22,760
It was an ultra -violent company that I
think had its niche.

2157
02:42:23,000 --> 02:42:26,800
People wanted to see it, but I don't
think ECW would have ever catered to the

2158
02:42:26,800 --> 02:42:29,660
masses because it was too violent.

2159
02:42:29,980 --> 02:42:33,380
When you throw caution to the wind, it's
not good for your career. You can do it

2160
02:42:33,380 --> 02:42:37,480
on occasion on a selected basis, but you
can't do it every night. You're going

2161
02:42:37,480 --> 02:42:38,480
to get caught.

2162
02:42:38,640 --> 02:42:40,320
You know, and you're going to get hurt.

2163
02:42:41,120 --> 02:42:44,200
Probably the other thing that killed ECW
was the fact that, like I said before,

2164
02:42:44,600 --> 02:42:47,880
Paulie wasn't the best businessman
beyond the wrestling ring.

2165
02:42:48,140 --> 02:42:49,140
He was tired.

2166
02:42:49,160 --> 02:42:51,140
He was so tired, you could see it in
him.

2167
02:42:51,920 --> 02:42:54,060
I think he wanted it to be done.

2168
02:42:54,400 --> 02:42:56,640
I mean, I believe that in my heart.

2169
02:42:57,200 --> 02:43:02,040
He was a great promoter, a great
wrestling booker, and a terrible

2170
02:43:02,040 --> 02:43:03,040
really believe that.

2171
02:43:03,440 --> 02:43:06,700
Paulie just died at the end. I think
Paulie just gave up.

2172
02:43:07,240 --> 02:43:12,180
Paul did things his way. Paul was going
to live by the sword and die by the

2173
02:43:12,180 --> 02:43:16,160
sword. He lived by his ways and he died
by his ways. And that's why ECW is not

2174
02:43:16,160 --> 02:43:22,680
around today. Because of mismanagement
is probably the best word I could give

2175
02:43:22,680 --> 02:43:23,680
it.

2176
02:43:24,360 --> 02:43:27,260
ECW died because we couldn't get on
another network in time.

2177
02:43:28,480 --> 02:43:29,480
It's that simple.

2178
02:43:29,800 --> 02:43:32,160
We had no network and no money. We're
out of business.

2179
02:43:32,740 --> 02:43:38,380
Had ECW landed on another network in
time, then everybody in this room right

2180
02:43:38,380 --> 02:43:42,080
would either be working here or would be
working for me. It would be a whole

2181
02:43:42,080 --> 02:43:43,080
different industry.

2182
02:43:44,540 --> 02:43:48,380
If we got another network, we would have
been hugely successful, or at least had

2183
02:43:48,380 --> 02:43:50,380
the opportunity to be hugely successful.

2184
02:43:50,600 --> 02:43:51,660
We definitely would have survived.

2185
02:43:52,880 --> 02:43:56,540
But we didn't get on another network,
and without another network, there's no

2186
02:43:56,540 --> 02:44:00,720
business. And so it died. It's that
simple. We died because we couldn't get

2187
02:44:00,720 --> 02:44:01,760
another network in time.

2188
02:44:02,220 --> 02:44:08,140
Bottom line. And anybody that thinks
anything different, is dead wrong, or

2189
02:44:08,140 --> 02:44:09,980
doesn't know what they're talking about.

2190
02:44:13,900 --> 02:44:20,060
Please welcome to the World Wrestling
Federation broadcast team, Paul

2191
02:44:20,060 --> 02:44:21,320
Heyman!

2192
02:44:22,040 --> 02:44:23,680
It was a whirlwind time.

2193
02:44:24,580 --> 02:44:26,740
You know, I had no choice.

2194
02:44:27,000 --> 02:44:28,000
How to do it.

2195
02:44:28,500 --> 02:44:29,500
How to go.

2196
02:44:30,680 --> 02:44:32,080
Made no sense not to.

2197
02:44:32,900 --> 02:44:33,900
ECW is dead.

2198
02:44:35,630 --> 02:44:37,450
There was no denying that.

2199
02:44:38,450 --> 02:44:44,790
The king is gone, and in his chair is
Paul E., and the E is for extreme.

2200
02:44:46,530 --> 02:44:47,890
How's that? Not bad, huh?

2201
02:44:48,090 --> 02:44:49,450
I don't know what I did to deserve this.

2202
02:44:50,350 --> 02:44:53,150
Anybody that didn't take the next step
would be in denial.

2203
02:44:53,410 --> 02:44:57,150
And I've always learned, accept reality
and move on.

2204
02:44:57,830 --> 02:44:59,130
And this was moving on.

2205
02:44:59,810 --> 02:45:01,510
I remember two things about that night.

2206
02:45:04,650 --> 02:45:08,190
I remember sitting next to J .R. and
looking over towards him, and he just

2207
02:45:08,190 --> 02:45:10,270
looked at me and he went, We'll do just
fine, kid.

2208
02:45:11,150 --> 02:45:13,110
And I pretty much knew that we would.

2209
02:45:13,410 --> 02:45:14,410
All right. No problem.

2210
02:45:15,190 --> 02:45:16,650
Another day at the office. Come on,
Paul.

2211
02:45:17,970 --> 02:45:19,670
Don't worry about nothing. Just follow
me, kid.

2212
02:45:20,870 --> 02:45:27,190
All right. And I remember everybody in
the headsets gasping when I said the

2213
02:45:27,190 --> 02:45:28,290
about Trish Stratus.

2214
02:45:34,410 --> 02:45:35,490
I'm going to get to see Bush.

2215
02:45:37,130 --> 02:45:42,230
And you just hear about 30 voices in the
headsets panicking. Because we're live.

2216
02:45:42,770 --> 02:45:44,570
And I have a live mic.

2217
02:45:44,990 --> 02:45:45,990
And I'm talking.

2218
02:45:46,270 --> 02:45:47,750
And Vince is in the ring.

2219
02:45:47,990 --> 02:45:49,690
So there's no governor on me.

2220
02:45:50,250 --> 02:45:51,570
It's just full bore.

2221
02:45:52,350 --> 02:45:55,170
I think at that moment, they got a taste
of who they had.

2222
02:45:55,730 --> 02:46:00,490
And I got a taste of what ceiling I
shouldn't be crashing through.

2223
02:46:02,480 --> 02:46:07,060
Own your own company and be the boss or
come someplace else and work way down

2224
02:46:07,060 --> 02:46:10,020
the ladder taking orders from people. I
don't think Paulie's the type that likes

2225
02:46:10,020 --> 02:46:14,080
taking orders. I think he wanted to be
successful, just the cards were against

2226
02:46:14,080 --> 02:46:15,080
him.

2227
02:46:15,180 --> 02:46:19,700
I do not think that Paul Heyman got what
he wanted because Paulie is an evil

2228
02:46:19,700 --> 02:46:20,700
genius.

2229
02:46:20,760 --> 02:46:21,760
Paulie is Dr.

2230
02:46:22,000 --> 02:46:24,940
Frankenstein, and Dr. Frankenstein
didn't want an answer to anybody.

2231
02:46:25,880 --> 02:46:28,020
Paul really likes to run his own ship.

2232
02:46:28,520 --> 02:46:33,120
and was infinitely proud as well as he
should be for what he accomplished.

2233
02:46:33,760 --> 02:46:37,520
And I think that if Paul had his
brothers today, I think he would still

2234
02:46:37,520 --> 02:46:42,940
running ECW, and ECW would be more
successful now than it ever was. I

2235
02:46:42,940 --> 02:46:45,080
think that that was Paul's dream.

2236
02:46:46,160 --> 02:46:52,080
And for it to go into bankruptcy, and
yet for Paul to still want to be in the

2237
02:46:52,080 --> 02:46:54,820
business that he loves, I think speaks
highly of the individual.

2238
02:46:55,440 --> 02:46:57,340
So I don't think he got what he wanted.

2239
02:46:58,460 --> 02:47:05,400
It's not his dream. His dream was to
have ECW perhaps surpass WWE.

2240
02:47:06,040 --> 02:47:12,860
I think that was his dream, and he
didn't have that. But he does

2241
02:47:12,860 --> 02:47:17,740
have the reality of what his dream was,
and that's something to hang on to and

2242
02:47:17,740 --> 02:47:20,700
something that Paul Heyman can be
extremely proud of forever.

2243
02:47:22,659 --> 02:47:25,760
Worldwide, this little company that
started in Philadelphia in front of 1

2244
02:47:25,760 --> 02:47:31,080
people on Ratner Street, you know, in
South Philly, exploded into this global,

2245
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:34,280
worldwide thing where everybody wanted
to work there. I wanted to work at ECW.

2246
02:47:34,280 --> 02:47:35,280
called for a year.

2247
02:47:36,320 --> 02:47:40,280
To me, it's the mark of excellence,
because if you could make it there, you

2248
02:47:40,280 --> 02:47:41,239
could have made it anywhere.

2249
02:47:41,240 --> 02:47:44,420
And you look at the guys who are in this
business, you know, Chris Benoit, Eddie

2250
02:47:44,420 --> 02:47:49,480
Guerrero right now, top of the game, and
they got noticed and got jobs because

2251
02:47:49,480 --> 02:47:50,480
of their time at ECW.

2252
02:47:51,180 --> 02:47:54,920
So many people have come through that
locker room, you know, come through the

2253
02:47:54,920 --> 02:47:58,160
doors, you know, stars of yesterday,
stars of today.

2254
02:47:58,560 --> 02:48:01,740
He gave people opportunity that maybe
would have never got it, and he gave

2255
02:48:01,740 --> 02:48:03,900
people opportunity that propelled them
to come here.

2256
02:48:05,320 --> 02:48:11,140
I think that people still remember how
great ECW was. To this day, when I step

2257
02:48:11,140 --> 02:48:15,100
into a WWE ring, me and D -Bomb still
get ECW chants.

2258
02:48:15,440 --> 02:48:17,820
The place closed down four years ago.

2259
02:48:18,920 --> 02:48:20,840
Four years ago, they're still chanting
ECW.

2260
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:26,680
I think fans chant ECW because it gives
them a warm, fuzzy, nostalgic feeling.

2261
02:48:26,940 --> 02:48:31,860
I really do. I mean, they liked those
days. It was a rebellious group. I think

2262
02:48:31,860 --> 02:48:36,300
people, when they show up and chant ECW,
it's kind of showing their

2263
02:48:36,300 --> 02:48:40,880
individuality, and it's paying tribute
to a bunch of guys who did things, you

2264
02:48:40,880 --> 02:48:41,900
know, a little bit differently.

2265
02:48:43,300 --> 02:48:44,520
There's so many things.

2266
02:48:45,390 --> 02:48:50,530
that ECW will live on, it's not just one
thing. It's not just, you know, one

2267
02:48:50,530 --> 02:48:54,050
match. It's not just one pay -per -view.
It's not just one show. It's the

2268
02:48:54,050 --> 02:48:57,690
product, the people, the company as a
whole that will live on forever.

2269
02:48:58,410 --> 02:49:04,130
You cannot achieve success without the
risk of failure.

2270
02:49:04,930 --> 02:49:11,430
And I learned a long time ago, you
cannot achieve success if you fear

2271
02:49:12,550 --> 02:49:14,170
If you're not afraid to fail,

2272
02:49:15,280 --> 02:49:16,820
Man, you have a chance to succeed.

2273
02:49:17,140 --> 02:49:20,140
But you're never going to get there
unless you risk it all the way.

2274
02:49:22,440 --> 02:49:23,440
I'll risk failure.

2275
02:49:24,340 --> 02:49:25,760
Sometimes half the fun is failing.

2276
02:49:26,220 --> 02:49:27,480
Learning from your mistakes.

2277
02:49:28,200 --> 02:49:33,120
Waking up the next morning and saying,
okay, watch out. Here I come again.

2278
02:49:33,560 --> 02:49:34,780
A little bit smarter.

2279
02:49:35,060 --> 02:49:36,120
Licking my wounds.

2280
02:49:36,780 --> 02:49:39,940
I'm really not looking forward to
getting my ass kicked the way I just did

2281
02:49:39,940 --> 02:49:42,740
yesterday. So now I'm just a little more
dangerous.