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[cheers and applause]

-[man] You fellas
better get on out of here.

We're having a big celebration.

You just get on
back over yonder.

-[man] Get on out of town.

-[man] We're not
gonna drop our guns.

[gun fire]

[cheers and applause]

-Ladies and gentlemen,
[inaudible] welcome you to

the Caravan of Dreams.

[cheers and applause]

-I wanted to read this
proclamation for you,

Ornette.

And then I've got a
little gift for you.

-OK.

-Whereas Ornette Coleman, born
and reared in the city of Fort

Worth, has enriched the lives
of individuals of every race,

color and creed as a composer,
performer and renowned jazz

musician,

and whereas Ornette Coleman, a
widely acclaimed figure in the

jazz world, has traveled
throughout the United States,

Europe, Japan and Africa,

and fashioned for himself an
unchallenged right to historical

prominence,

and whereas Ornette Coleman
has demonstrated that individual

initiative and the free
enterprise system continue to be

the American way of life,

and that success is possible for
all who take advantage of the

opportunities in our country,

now, therefore, I, Bob Buller,
Mayor of the City of Fort Worth,

Texas, do hereby
proclaim September the 29th,

1983 as Ornette Coleman Day
in the City of Fort Worth.

Congratulations, Ornette.

-Thank you very much.

[cheers and applause]

-I want to give one
other little momento that,

although you're a
citizen of Fort Worth,

we want you to have a key
to the city of Fort Worth.

This a tie clip.

You haven't got a tie on today.

You will later.

But the original of this was
taken to the moon by Allen Bean,

another Fort Worth native.

-[man] Yeah, that's
the key to the city.

-Where's the moon?

-[man] It's
the key to the city.

I was with the
mayor this afternoon--

-[inaudible] of
the moon, I heard.

-[man] Yeah, he
said it went to the moon.

-The key went to the moon?

-[man] Yeah.

-Why did this
key go to the moon?

-[man] I don't know, man.

The mayor recited, like, the
whole document before he gave it

to him, right?

And then he accepted the key.

It was really nice.

There was a crowd around--

-[man] Did you cry?

-No I didn't cry, man.

It wasn't that sentimental.

But it was nice
receiving the key to the city,

man.

You know, it's not every
day that something like that

happens.

It says "Fort Worth."

-[man] I know, but
that's not the key, is it?

-[man] Yeah, it
looks like a key.

Don't you see it?

-[man] Man, the key
went to the moon.

You known, it's like when they
take objects to the moon and

stuff like that.

-[man] Well, why would
they take that to the moon?

-[man] Just for-- you know,
just for the experience.

It's like "This has
been to the moon."

Like, somebody give you a
shirt and it's from Paris.

-You see a trumpet
case over there?

-[man] Looks good.

Yes.

Cow town, USA.

-[Ornette] [inaudible]
don't remember.

I'm gonna let out all the dogs.

[applause]

-What is it that you do that is
different from other drummers in

relationship to playing without
having to have something to go

by?

It's obvious you don't have
anything to go by but yet you're

playing as if you did.

And that is-- that is a
very modern way of playing.

I'm just trying to find out
what method do you use to-- to,

uh, be correct,
uh, or be right.

I mean, you're more right
than you are wrong, you know.

-I don't-- I don't know.

I don't have any
particular method or anything.

-All right, so when you
do do it, it's-- it's just a

spontaneous thing that's
happening in-- in how you're

hearing the music
when you do do it?

-Yes.

-I see.

Well, are you playing the
[inaudible] drum in your-- as

far as growing up to be a man?

What they call being
an artist, you know.

Are you-- does that
ever occur to you?

-[Denardo] Yeah, I guess.

I'm not sure.

-Let's-- let's try again.

On the rim.

And Charlie you play
the [inaudible], all right?

Yeah, that was--
that was really there.

That was really there that time.

I mean, the idea of
the whole piece.

That house was standing like
that when I was a little kid.

I remember playing in
the streets here one day.

And my mother told me, she said,
"Don't you leave this yard."

I said, "Yes, ma'am."

And as soon as she went to town,
I ran downstairs and started

playing football.

And I looked up and saw
her and my sister coming.

I peed in my pants and I
was running back down here.

Because she told me, "If you
leave this-- leave this yard,

I'm gonna, you know, spank you."

And I said, "Oh, my
mother's going to beat me.

I better run."

But she caught me.

-[man] She caught you?

-She did, she beat me to death.

-[man] [laughs] I
guess you remember that.

-[Ornette] Yes, I
remember it very well.

But you know, I-- I was
listening to a tape the other

night and the thing that really
am-- am-- amazed me,

what really makes me
want to play music,

it's when I really hear
an individual, um...

thought pattern placed in an
environment to make something

actually come about that is not
an obvious thing that everyone

is doing.

And um-- uh, uh, actually,
it comes-- you do more--

to tell you the truth, I think
you do it much better than I do.

That's what I'm saying, because
I remember having a, um, el--

elder musician telling me,
"Oh you're a kid, [inaudible]."

I remember being in, um,
California when I read a review

of a drummer saying
that, "Oh, you know,

I said, I guess I'm not that
kind of drummer because I should

have you [inaudible]."

Because we were related.

But really, it was just-- now
that I look back at it,

it was really
insecurity and jealousy.

-[man] [inaudible]?

-[Ornette] Huh?

Yeah, that train likes to
wake me up every morning.

Yeah, I was living really close
to the-- to the track there.

-Hey, boy.

You make your mother
to answer that door...

or I'll lock you up.

-Junior!

Junior, where you going?

-[Inaudible].

-No, you're not.

You're staying here!

[cheers and applause]

[cheers and applause]

-[foreign language].

-[woman] Ryan was saying this is
almost the exact day, ten years

later, as we were
together in Jajouka.

-I want to find that
video I have of-- of,

uh, uh, the girls and
you and I in the tent.

-Yeah, really.

A weird event that occurred
in the mountains of Morocco.

We don't have any of the music
from Jajouka on the-- to go on

the soundtrack, do you?

-[woman] Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

How did you guys get
together at that point in time?

-Well, Bob Palmer had a
good deal to do with it,

because he played and had
been up there several times and

[inaudible].

-You know, one thing that
I've always wondered about.

Remember when I came back
when-- when Guyson took me up to

Jajouka and I played with
the musicians up there

and I brought back those
tapes, and you listened to them

and to my incredible
surprise, you said,

"Let's put-- let's go!

Let's get an organization
together and go up and make a

record with those guys."

And we went and did it.

What did you hear in those tapes
that made you want to do that?

Because, you know, [inaudible].

-I was telling someone the other
day when I was in New Orleans.

I was playing in
this sanctified church.

And you know, in-- in-- in most
churches, the pianos are so out

of tune that they'd be
playing the key of Z,

K, P, T.

I mean, H.

And I took my horn in this
sanctified church and I played

the same way I'm playing now.

And when I heard those tapes, I
heard that same quality only on

a much more high
level than religion.

It was more on a creative level.

Because most of religion
is on an emotional level.

This was on a creative level.

And that's what really
turned me on and I said,

"I gotta go and
play with these guys."

Because I could see that for
once, I would be able to play

whatever passed through my heart
and head without ever having to

worry about whether
it's right or wrong.

-[man] Yeah.

-[man] We had something like
15 double-reed horns and 15

drummers.

And Ornette and me and-- and
hundreds of hill tribesmen all

camped out in tents in this
little-- around this little

village on the top
of this mountain.

And the place was just shaking.

-Bob was playing and I
[inaudible] telling him I have

this tape [inaudible] that he
started playing and all of the

sudden, he, for some instinct,
the whole sound of everything

that was going on passed through
his horn like it was like,

uh, like an intense flame.

I mean it's-- the -- the-- the--
his clarinet sounded like it was

just some kind of
boat of-- of, uh,

fire.

I mean, it was-- it was the most
incredible sound I ever heard

any musician play,
including myself.

-Pertinent question.

-[man] An impertinent question.

-[man] An impertinent question
works even better sometimes,

yeah.

Recording of an
impertinent question.

-Pertinent or impertinent.

-Immortality to the people.

Every man a god.

How do you get to be a god?

Well, to put it apple
pie country simple,

by doing your job
and doing it well.

So you may become a god
of jugglers and acrobats.

A god of the long chance.

The horse that comes from
last to win in the stretch.

The punch drunk fighter who
comes up from the floor to win

by a knockout.

A god of future space travelers
who are ready to leave the whole

human context behind and
take a step into the unknown.

Well, every man a god
if you can qualify.

But you can't be a god of
anything unless you can do it,

for Christ sakes.

Happiness is a by product of
function and those who seek

happiness for itself
seek victory without war.

And that is a flaw in all
utopias and of course a paradise

is really a terminal utopia.

-One thing that's always
mystified me that I feel that

was magic about your band with
Don Cherry and Blackwell and

Charlie, and that is, uh-- and I
think a lot of other people too,

you never-- you never
counted off your pieces.

-[man] Mm-hm.

-I mean, just everybody would
instinctively or intuitively

come in with the-- with the
instruments at the same time.

And you didn't-- you
didn't nod you head.

-[Ornette] I didn't say "We're
gonna start, we're gonna stop--"

-How did that work?

I mean...

-Same instinctive,
uh, um, insight.

-Well, see that's one reason I
think that the West-- the West

doesn't really
understand about music.

Because the West thinks
of music as entertainment,

you know?

And in the same way, it sort
of-- this feeling about-- that

persisted in jazz
for years that...

well, black musicians came
along and were kind of geniuses.

But they don't understand as
it-- the heart is probably the

highest kind of intelligence.

This intuitive
intelligence that we have

in the third world countries is
really third world technology.

So, I mean, the
answer lies in music.

I asked
Buckminster Fuller, I said,

"Don't you think it's the
scientists' responsibility to

relate his discipline,
not only to that science,

but to everything?"

His answer was,
"Well, you have a dome.

Why don't you use it?"

-OK, um...well...

actually, I met, uh,
Buckminster Fuller in 19...

50...

about 54.

At the Hollywood High
in, um, Hollywood,

California.

And, um, I-- I
listened to his lecture.

And, um, I was just inspired.

In fact, I-- I-- I once studied
architect-- I thought I was

going to be an architect.

Then I thought I was going
to be a brain specialist.

Then I thought I was going to--
I wanted to be so many things.

So I finally realized I didn't
have enough money to support any

of these ideas.

So I started-- I would pursue
my career imitating music.

So I got a horn and I started
playing whatever I heard on the

radio.

And the one thing that really
just blew me away, it was his

demonstration of his own domes.

And when he demonstrated the way
his domes were put together and

how geometric they were done,

it just blew me
away because I said,

"This is how I've
been writing music.

This is the way I write music."

Um, I had-- I was in Rome.

And I was on my way to Florence
to play a concert and I'd heard

that he had passed.

And so I dedicated
my program to him.

To me, um, he surpassed all of
the [inaudible] that has to do

with surviving because of--
of-- of abilities or skills.

And to me, that-- he became one
of my-- he's probably my best

hero.

-[Buckminster] The short
time that I'll have with you,

I'll spontaneously select out of
it I think most relevant to all

things we can talk about
about humans and the universe,

which is only something
I'm going to care about,

and about what I assess to
be opposition in evolutionary

history right now.

When I was born, reality was
everything you could see,

smell, touch and hear.

Very important to remind
you and everybody else

that no human being's ever
seen outside of themself.

You see entirely in a
television set inside the brain.

We have this thing
called image-a-nation.

Imagination.

-As [inaudible] say, "You
can't see outside of yourself,

but we do have imagination."

The expression of all
individuals' imagination is what

I call "high melodics."

And each being's
imagination is their own unison.

And there are as many unisons
as there are stars in the sky.

-[man] Them was the days, man.

-[Ornette] That's right.

-[man] When all the
kids went to one school.

All the coloreds--

-[Ornette] That's right.

[inaudible].

There could only be-- if you
wasn't black, you couldn't go

to that school.

-[man] No, you
couldn't go there.

[inaudible].

-Bussing is
outdated compared to this.

-Oh yeah, we used to walk.

-[Ornette] Bussing, there was
bussing-- that was all there was

was bussing then.

-[man] I remember when you used
play up upstairs over here.

And we wasn't old
enough to go up there.

-That's right.

-We used to sneak up the steps.

And William RIchardson's
daddy was the doorman

and we would all have
bricks in our pocket,

just in case something broke out
up there we had to get out in a

hurry.

I remember when we used
to-- Charlie Roger used to get

all of us, let's
go over upstairs.

Bucket of blood, that's
what we used to call it.

-And, uh, you know what?

When I got to New York City,
King Curtis was driving a Rolls

Royce.

-Yeah.

-King Curtis was one-- he was
probably the most successful

musician that [inaudible] that
I-- he made-- he had his own,

um, ah, ah, ah car-- train car.

He opened-- he was-- he was--
he was opening for The Beatles.

-[man] Well, I'll be darned.

-King Curtis.

-[man] Well, I be darned.

-King Curtis made heavy money.

-I know that.

-[Ornette] King Curtis, when I--
when I got to New York City,

he came and picked me up in
his Rolls Royce and he was--

you know, I was-- I was making
peanuts compared to what he was

making.

-[man] Well, I be darned.

-He was making big
money, you know?

And playing really beautiful.

-Yeah, I know.

Charlie sent me the clip.

-Mm-hm.

-Uh-huh.

-[Ornette] There's a building in
New York City that looks just

exactly like this building.

The Flatiron
Building in New York.

Uh, General Worth, the guy
that Fort Worth is named after,

is buried there on 23rd and 5th
Avenue across the street from

the Flatiron Building.

[applause]

-[man] Thank you all so
very much once again.

A great hand for the ladies and
gentlemen in the band who work

so very hard.

I'd like to thank our sound crew
from the Port Authority World

Trade Center, who
sponsored these [inaudible]

recording industries.

Most of all, I'd like to thank
you for coming on your lunch.

I hope you enjoyed it.

[applause]

-That's all the way down
in the World Trade Center?

-[woman] Yeah.

-It's synchronized
with up here, right?

-[woman] Yeah.

Did you ever see
anything like this before?

-No.

No, I haven't.

-[woman] No?

Is it pretty weird?

-Oh, I think it's great.

When musicians can get together
without being together...

and playing together,
I think it's fantastic.

-[woman] So what do
you think about this?

This television music stuff?

-All right.

-[woman] It's all right?

-Yes.

-You still play the drums.

And now you're the manager.

How do you feel about
that responsibility?

-Well, I think it works out
pretty nice because...

what-- what we're doing
and what he's kind of,

um-- business-wise, things that
have happened have been kind of

unusual as the music
is kind of unusual.

It's a different situation that
somebody who's managing and

doing the business has to
be aware and sensitive to.

And since I've seen so many
people come and go that play

that role that didn't know
quite how to work it out--

-One place called the California
Club in the late 50's and,

um, and I think
his music was so,

uh, powerful at that time
that they were very puzzled,

uh, confused and embarrassed.

And, of course, them being next
to him sort of it made their

music a little off-balance
or a little weaker and their

attitudes were really a drag.

I mean, they looked at him
like, "What is this guy doing?"

And they would look
at the audience like,

"God, isn't this a drag?"

And, of course, they
put him off the stand.

-Oh, well, the so-called, uh...

"Ornette mystique"
is like, uh...

uh, when he first started
playing, like, uh, um...

people would break his
instrument and [laughs]

uh, people-- well, like when I
first met him in Los Angeles,

uh...

uh, I walked into a place
one Wednesday night...

and the entire rhythm section,
uh, they just got up and left

the stand, you know?

And uh, left his saxophone
player up there playing so I

came to a quick conclusion,
"This has got to be Ornette

Coleman," you know?

And, uh, true, it was.

-Ornette has
always been different.

He has always been
different from anybody else.

He wanted to invent
things for himself.

He'd invent them.

He wasn't accepted at all.

He said every time he
walked on the bandstand,

musicians walk off.

And he had come back
home on several occasions.

He went to New York.

And [inaudible].

And he had the same band...

that had been with Ornette
about ten or 15 years.

And when he got to
New York, he hit it.

-And suddenly, Ornette Coleman,
up on the bandstand in the Five

Spot, during a blizzard, started
to play the blues like Charlie

Parker.

And I have never
heard anyone else,

other than Charlie
Parker, do that that way.

And Charlie Parker has had many
followers and he has also had

many imitators, and
there's a big difference.

None of them has come near this.

Ornette had the
attack on the reed right.

He was doing it
like late Parker too.

The more virtuoso period
of Parker's short career.

He was absolutely uncanny and
he went on and on doing it.

And I said, "Man, why
don't you do this more often?

Why don't you do this on a
record to show people that you

really do know
what you're doing?

Those that won't listen to
you and learn it that way."

And Ornette said
something like, "Oh,

I like to do that every
now and then for fun."

Or something like that.

And dismissed it that way.

-A symphony orchestra musician
is trained to be extremely

precise to meld with
everyone else in the orchestra,

where Ornette's...

whole philosophy is
totally contrary to that.

He wants the freedom
of expression between--

among all of the musicians
in the orchestra.

He wants people
to feel free to express

themselves at any time
within the confines of-- of

the structure that
he has designated.

I see the connection between the
jazz and the symphony orchestra,

uh, in a very interesting way.

To me, uh, it's like two
different forces juxtaposed

against one another.

And it's almost, to
me, it's almost like,

uh, two sources of language.

And in Ornette's playing
and in the entire group,

Primetime Group, I hear
elements of very early jazz,

even dating back to Dixieland.

-I think there was
a feeling of, uh,

me for, to be absolutely
honest, a feeling of

apprehension, uh, uh, a
feeling of being, uh...

threatened by this...

mind of yours.

And uh, I probably-- probably
was, along with just about

everybody else.

We had an inkling
of what would come.

So when I finally
met you in 1959,

at the School of Jazz in Lennox,
it was, uh-- the worst dreams

came true.

I heard your
music and knew that,

uh, here was a
music that was, uh,

frightening in its implications.

That they would have to
learn new-- new disciplines.

And I think, in that
sense, you influenced,

uh, everybody, you know?

-Obviously, the initial
impact of free jazz was kind of

chaotic.

Everybody was running off in the
early 60s and doing everything

they could think of doing and
whereas it made sense in a kind

of instinctual way
for Ornette to do it,

it didn't always make sense for
some of his imitators to do it.

But Ornette was always one step
ahead of them because he was

moving onto something else
while they were still imitating

his earlier phases.

His current
phase, it seems to me,

really got going in the early
70s when he went to Morocco

and when he started picking
up, in a a lot of ways,

on different kinds
of third world music.

Any kind of music encounters
resistance from mainstream

audiences if it's particularly
dissonant or particularly jagged

rhythmically, uh, or off-putting
in that kind of way.

And this is a problem that's
been faced by everything from

modernist classical music
to free jazz to punk rock.

Uh, Ornette, to his
credit, has not sold out,

if you want to put it
in the basic terms.

He has pursued
what he wants to do.

Uh, this got him branded as an
eccentric when he was young.

It gets him branded as
a genius when he's old.

-Well, I've been working on this
dream for about 20 years now and

it seemed as if it's getting
closer and closer to a reality.

And what I intend to do with
this space here on Rivington is

to make a multiple
expression center,

which involves space,
artists, dramatics and science.

I had to migrate to California,
then to Europe, then to New York

and to go through lots of things
just to get to this normal state

that I'm trying to achieve now.

So, um, um, I do believe
that uh-- that the-- the belief

system, the, uh, the concept
of what is called the emotional

state of human beings and their
desire to do things in their own

time, is an endless cycle
in-- in what is called the human

cycle and I would like to,
um, in my cycle, making a

contribution to that cycle.

-[man] There were two very bad
incidents that happened in this

building.

The first was in September 1982.

I got a call at about 7AM...

while I was sleeping from my
father who said he had just been

tied up and beaten...

uh, by six teenagers
that came in to rob him.

So I immediately called the
police and called other people

here in the building and
told them what happened.

And I ran down from where I was,
which was about 12 blocks away.

By the time I got here, the
police were here and people were

already up here.

And he had been tied up and
hit in the head with a hammer,

actually, by-- by these kids,
which they didn't have to do,

but they were scared.

And-- and they were
trying to take his equipment,

take his money.

Someone saw them on the way out
and they had to drop everything.

But they got away.

He crawled across
the floor, actually,

to call me while he
was still tied up.

And, you know, it was amazing
that not more happened to him.

He just got a concussion.

But it was bad.

He had to stay in the
hospital a few days.

But then, about
six months later,

still at this building...

we were walking up the steps
and, in the dark, two guys

attacked us.

They hit him with a crowbar
and I grabbed one guy and was

hitting him with a
board that I picked up.

We took him to the hospital and
they released him that evening.

But during the next day, he
had a lot of trouble breathing.

And we knew something was wrong.

So we took the ambulance and
came back to the hospital.

And that's where we found
out he had a punctured lung.

But all that
happened, let's say,

within-- within a six
or seven-month period

and all because he was just
trying to do his work here in

this building
where he could be, uh,

peaceful, people wouldn't
have to bother him,

and he wouldn't have
to bother other people,

and he would have enough space
to take care of things that he

wanted to take care of.

It's a dangerous area.

At one point, it was known as
the most heavily drug-trafficked

area.

You know, it's
the Lower Eat Side.

And, um, you always have people
who are going to mug you or rob

you or take your money.

Anything.

You know, a lot of junkies,
a lot of, uh, uh, poor people

also.

I mean, that's the conditions
that are in this neighborhood.

But this building he got
through a public auction.

It used to be a New York City
school building that has a

tremendous amount of space
and potential to do a lot here.

You know, he's going
to develop it and have,

um, maybe a music school or
galleries and performances and a

lot of things
happening once it's developed.

But until that point or until
things get a little better,

it's always going
to be dangerous.

You know?

And, uh, I worry
about him a lot.

He's not
necessarily gonna stay here,

live here.

But just being in
this area, you know,

will be dangerous.

-[Ornette] I'd like to
go out in space tonight.

And one reasons
why is because, um,

all the things such
as religion, science,

astrology, death,
survival and all those things,

they leave you without
any answers other than

"What's going to happen
to me when I'm gone?"

So why not think about what's
gonna happen to you while you're

here?

About four months ago, I got a
questionnaire from NASA asking

me about my interest in
working in space as an artist.

And in this category, they
asked if you wanted to come to

NASA, did you want
to work in the shuttle,

or did you want to work on
just different projects?

So I, um, I went-- I took their
documents to a lawyer friend

of mine and we filled them out.

And I put several of my friends
down that I thought I'd like to

have there with me.

Well, I-- I-- I-- I think that
whatever out in space I have

met, and whatever is not
out in space I have met.

I mean, in other words,
that space is only space

to communicate to us if there
is a being or a [inaudible].

So therefore, the Earth
is [inaudible] than space.

So we're already out in space.

It's just the difference between
looking up and looking down.

And so that's why I'm,
uh-- Buckminster Fuller,

he said in his last lecture that
I attended that there's no such

thing as up and
down, it's only out.

So in that sense, uh, I don't
expect to find anything that I

haven't already experienced out.

They say a million
years from today, um,

the image of what we know
as human beings might become

altered or might
become extinct.

I don't believe that the human
form will ever cease to exist.

So if it's not on what
if called this Earth,

then I guess the next place
would be what is called Heaven.

And since Heaven
is a form of space,

it could be considered
as a place in space.

And for some reason, if the
Earth is not here or if it's

destroyed, humanity is
not going to go with it.

That's why I would like to
go out in space because I'm not

interested in questioning what's
going to happen to me after I

pass.

I'm more interested in what can
I experience while I'm alive.

This beautiful woman was
coming down the street.

And the moment we got
close to each other,

she starts smiling.

Finally, when I got really close
to her, she grabbed me and

kissed me real passionate.

And then, in my
broken English, I said,

"What is your name?"

And she started
screaming, you know.

And she didn't have no idea
who I was [inaudible],

you know?

And I said, "Oh my goodness,
maybe if I hadn't opened my

voice, we would have
had a good time."

[laughs]

-[woman] Tell us
the castration story.

-No, [inaudible] but I'll
tell you a story about it.

Um...

[inaudible].

When I was...

I guess I was
turning to be a teenager,

and I remember,
uh, having to, uh,

walk home with
girls from high school.

I got involved in, you
know, trying to court

around high school.

My little high school
playmates and things.

And, um, during that time I
started playing music as well.

Also, when I played music, I
always got a different kind of,

uh, relationship to, uh, girls.

And then I started wondering,
"I wonder if this-- if playing

music has anything to do with
these girls liking me, and if I

wasn't playing music, how
would they respond to me?"

[inaudible] really become
very serious until I

started traveling.

And while I was traveling, I
always found that I could,

you know, pick up a girl because
I told her I was playing music.

I never got over the feeling
of knowing whether, um...

some girl would like me
because of me just being a

a person and not
just a performer.

And so, after having been
married and having a kid,

I was thinking about eliminating
any sexual feeling I could have

in my body.

So I was told that
was called castration.

So I went to the doctor and I
told him that's what I thought I

was interested in him doing.

So he looked at me very strange
because I'm-- I think I'm about

30...

32...

I'm in my early 30s.

So he, you know, he looked at me
very strangely and kept saying,

"Well, are you sure you-- is
that what you really want?"

I said, "Yeah,
that's what I want."

And so he said,
"Well, I'll tell you what.

Before you try that, why don't
you try circumcision first?"

And I said, "I--
I'd never done--"

I didn't have any idea what
he was talking about because,

you know, it was just something
I hadn't thought about.

And I said, "Uh, is that a
kind of form of castrating?"

He said, "Well, not
exactly but it's symbolic."

-I'm going to have a baby.

-Can I have your baby?

-[Ornette] So, I had the
operation of, uh, being,

uh, circumcised.

And, uh, finally after I, um,
got well I-- I still didn't feel

any change.

I mean it didn't improve-- I
didn't-- I didn't solve that

problem by having that
particular operation.

But one thing that I did solve
was the fact that I realized

that, uh, being physical or
sexual has nothing to do with

what you think or believe, it
has more to do with who you

think you're affecting and
what you think you're affecting.

And so from then-- from
that day to this day,

I have decided there's-- there's
two kinds of human beings:

one female and one male and
one man and one woman.

So I decided to
join what I thought,

uh, the categories would be.

I would rather be
a man than a male.

So that was the conclusion of
all the things that I'd done.

That's the result
of what I came to.

[cheers and applause]

-I'm fine, how are you doing?

-Pleasure to meet you.

-[Ornette] Same here.

-And I tell you,
Jean has lived, talked,

dreamed where to find out more
and more about Ornette Coleman.

-[Ornette] Oh my goodness.

How's that going, huh?

-Good.

-Yeah, you should
have had your horn out.

You could've come up
and played with us, man.

-Very, very nice.

Aren't you from Fort Worth?

-Yeah.

-I write for the
Dallas Morning News.

I'd very much like
to meet with you.

-I'm at the Americano.

-How long are you
going to be there?

-Until about the 6th
or 7th of October.

-Of October?

-Yes.

-May I call you?

-Yes.

-For an interview?

-Yeah, sure.

-My-- my name is
Lee Anne Howe,

H-O-W-E.

And I write for the
Dallas Morning News.

-OK.

-I'd very much like to meet you.

I enjoyed it very much.

-Thank you.

-Thank you very much.

-Marvelous!

Fantastic!

-All I can say is I have a
friend that I'm going to send to

see you at the club.

-Were they taking a
recording tonight?

-Yeah, they were.

-Good.

-That was great.

-Oh, thank you.

-I'm going to see my friend.

-OK.

-It was a wonderful concert.

Just beautiful.

Thank you, thank you very much.

-[woman] Ornette?

Can I have you
autograph, please?

-How will I find your
room at the Americano?

-I'm in room 1104.

-1104.

Well, a lot of times when
celebrities stay, they won't

tell you.

-Yeah, but I'm telling you.

It's 1104.

-I'll be there.

-Yeah, OK.

-Thank you very much.

-This is a very
exciting happening.

-It is a very
exciting happening.

-John, you're a great
disappointment to us all.

-I am?

I left my clothes on.

-One sip?

-Hello, my darlings.

I'm having a marvelous time.

[Inaudible].

No, darling.

I'm from Beverly
Hills, California.

And I work in [inaudible]
and movies out in Hollywood.

With Lex Barker.

Down to Earth
with Rita Hayworth,

Harvey Girls
with Judy Garland.

Many, many others.

I love Fort Worth.

I'm pretending I'm a Texan now.

I've even got the Texan accent.

Oh, I love you too,
you good-looking doll.