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Almost overnight,
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23 cases were boxed up
and it's like Wayne did that.
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Once Atlanta was provided
an out, they took it.
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There were so many things
that just pointed directly
5
00:00:14,250 --> 00:00:15,458
at Wayne Williams.
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It was all fake math.
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And they presented it
to the jury as hard fact.
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Almost every key witness
against Wayne Williams
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committed perjury
or gave misleading testimony.
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How do you defend against
what we did not know?
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Some of these children
should not have been attributed
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to Wayne Williams.
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The person identified to police
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had a scar down his face.
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The investigators think
that there was at least
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one other killer.
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- Everybody, please stand
and join hands.
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- Father God,
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oh, I ask that you would bless
20
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each and every one
that is here, Lord.
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Bless every parent, Lord,
that lost a child, Lord.
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In Jesus' name we pray.
Amen.
23
00:02:11,166 --> 00:02:12,291
Amen.
24
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- Yeah.
25
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- I stayed with the mothers
for a long time.
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- Oh, we gonna get started,
27
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and y'all gonna have a chance
to tell y'all's story, okay?
28
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- All right.
29
00:02:24,083 --> 00:02:25,500
- Bless you.
- Bless you.
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00:02:25,583 --> 00:02:27,291
We had a little group going on
31
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till about '85.
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This lady called Mildred Glover,
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we would go to her house
every Saturday.
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She helped us
through a whole lot.
35
00:02:39,583 --> 00:02:42,458
- It was very important
that we all stick together
36
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as a group,
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the ones that were still alive.
38
00:02:47,583 --> 00:02:50,125
I came in
with a 35-millimeter camera
39
00:02:50,208 --> 00:02:53,041
and just started
shooting pictures.
40
00:02:57,625 --> 00:03:00,917
- I remember I was at
Miss Mildred Glover's.
41
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,417
While a handful of parents
and Miss Glover
42
00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:05,709
was talking in the home,
43
00:03:05,792 --> 00:03:07,750
me as a child, I'm on the porch,
44
00:03:07,834 --> 00:03:09,375
playing around.
45
00:03:09,458 --> 00:03:11,709
This blue car pulls up.
46
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This guy, tall white guy,
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took a brick,
48
00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:18,667
and he slung it
through that window,
49
00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:22,375
and I remember
Miss Glover's husband
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come running out of the door
51
00:03:24,166 --> 00:03:25,875
and asked me,
"Ron, what'd you do?"
52
00:03:25,959 --> 00:03:27,667
I said, "I ain't do anything,
Mr. Bill.
53
00:03:27,750 --> 00:03:28,875
That man did it."
54
00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:30,917
And he jumps in his car,
55
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,625
and he turns around,
56
00:03:32,709 --> 00:03:36,625
and he did a gesture like that
out of the window.
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00:03:40,291 --> 00:03:42,417
That brick had a note on it.
58
00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:45,542
It said, "We gonna kill
all you niggers."
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00:03:45,625 --> 00:03:47,375
That's what that note said.
60
00:03:47,458 --> 00:03:49,333
"We gonna kill
all you niggers."
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00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,041
I'll never forget that day.
62
00:03:55,959 --> 00:03:58,750
- All these
strange things happen
63
00:03:58,834 --> 00:04:01,375
related to the case.
64
00:04:01,458 --> 00:04:03,375
Wayne was in jail...
65
00:04:03,458 --> 00:04:06,542
might've been a couple of years.
66
00:04:06,625 --> 00:04:10,583
And I'd been working
to get the next appeal ready
67
00:04:10,667 --> 00:04:13,417
when something new
come into the mix.
68
00:04:15,709 --> 00:04:18,750
So my offices
was on Ralph McGill.
69
00:04:18,834 --> 00:04:22,875
I remember coming up
on my doorstep,
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00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:24,625
there was a package
71
00:04:24,709 --> 00:04:27,166
that was left for me.
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00:04:27,250 --> 00:04:30,917
I don't know who brought it.
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00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,834
Maybe I do know who brought it,
but I can't say.
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00:04:33,917 --> 00:04:38,166
But man, it was incredible.
75
00:04:41,583 --> 00:04:44,458
There was page after page.
76
00:04:44,542 --> 00:04:47,834
Some of it
was hand-written longhand.
77
00:04:47,917 --> 00:04:49,792
Some of it was typed up.
78
00:04:49,875 --> 00:04:54,458
Every bit of it was about
an undercover investigation
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00:04:54,542 --> 00:04:57,375
which took place in early '81.
80
00:04:59,250 --> 00:05:01,000
- The Georgia Bureau
of Investigation
81
00:05:01,083 --> 00:05:05,500
had opened up
an entire investigation
82
00:05:05,583 --> 00:05:09,542
focusing on Ku Klux Klan
involvement in the killings.
83
00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:15,667
It had been kept
completely secret,
84
00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:18,000
and indeed,
separate and apart from
85
00:05:18,083 --> 00:05:20,458
the task force that was
investigating the murders,
86
00:05:20,542 --> 00:05:22,417
separate from
the prosecuting authorities.
87
00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:25,458
That evidence
had never been presented
88
00:05:25,542 --> 00:05:27,500
to the defense at any time.
89
00:05:27,583 --> 00:05:29,208
- I was excited, man.
90
00:05:29,291 --> 00:05:32,208
I was excited
because I thought these files,
91
00:05:32,291 --> 00:05:33,959
the anonymous package,
92
00:05:34,041 --> 00:05:39,375
was overwhelming violation
of the Brady Law.
93
00:05:39,458 --> 00:05:40,875
- The United States
Supreme Court,
94
00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:43,792
in a case called
Brady versus Maryland,
95
00:05:43,875 --> 00:05:46,583
held that the prosecution
is required
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00:05:46,667 --> 00:05:48,375
to provide to the defense
97
00:05:48,458 --> 00:05:50,542
any and all evidence
98
00:05:50,625 --> 00:05:55,875
that tends to exonerate
or exculpate a defendant.
99
00:05:55,959 --> 00:05:58,208
Because the prosecution
and the police
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00:05:58,291 --> 00:06:01,041
tend to have the ability
to collect far more evidence
101
00:06:01,125 --> 00:06:02,542
than the defense does,
102
00:06:02,625 --> 00:06:04,041
they have to disclose it.
103
00:06:04,125 --> 00:06:07,208
In this case, they didn't do it.
104
00:06:07,291 --> 00:06:10,500
- It was a no-brainer
that this would give Wayne
105
00:06:10,583 --> 00:06:12,375
a new trial.
106
00:06:12,458 --> 00:06:14,542
- Wayne Williams
is being represented
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00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:16,083
in this hearing for a new trial
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00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:18,542
by his former attorney,
Lynn Whatley,
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00:06:18,625 --> 00:06:21,458
and two of this country's
most prominent attorneys,
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00:06:21,542 --> 00:06:23,875
Bobby Lee Cook
of Summerville, Georgia,
111
00:06:23,959 --> 00:06:26,583
and William Kunstler
of New York.
112
00:06:26,667 --> 00:06:29,250
- I'm here in my antiquity,
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00:06:29,333 --> 00:06:31,750
hoping to do some good
in the world.
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00:06:31,834 --> 00:06:34,458
- I had always admired
William Kunstler,
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00:06:34,542 --> 00:06:36,959
even as a very young person.
116
00:06:37,041 --> 00:06:39,458
I watched his work
in the Chicago Eight,
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00:06:39,542 --> 00:06:42,291
which later became
the Chicago Seven trial.
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00:06:42,375 --> 00:06:43,417
He fought the House
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00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:45,917
of Un-American Activities
Committee.
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00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,291
He represented Dr. King.
121
00:06:47,375 --> 00:06:49,041
He represented
the Black Panthers,
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00:06:49,125 --> 00:06:51,417
the anti-war movement,
the American Indian movement,
123
00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:52,709
and it's like, "Wow.
124
00:06:52,792 --> 00:06:55,250
That's who I want to be
when I grow up."
125
00:06:55,333 --> 00:06:57,417
- Civil rights specialist
William Kunstler
126
00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,625
and Harvard Law School's
Alan Dershowitz say
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00:06:59,709 --> 00:07:01,625
they have proof that police
withheld evidence
128
00:07:01,709 --> 00:07:03,667
of a possible Ku Klux Klan
suspect
129
00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:04,792
out of fear.
130
00:07:04,875 --> 00:07:06,125
- We're asking to have
an opportunity
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00:07:06,208 --> 00:07:07,458
to see all the files.
132
00:07:07,542 --> 00:07:09,166
Let's have a fair fight.
133
00:07:09,250 --> 00:07:11,542
Let's have
a true scientific test,
134
00:07:11,625 --> 00:07:14,166
and let the chips fall
where they may
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00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:15,959
without any loaded dice.
136
00:07:16,041 --> 00:07:20,792
- And, of course, we had
the amazing Bobby Lee Cook.
137
00:07:20,875 --> 00:07:23,792
He was already
a legendary figure
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00:07:23,875 --> 00:07:25,834
in Georgia legal circles.
139
00:07:30,917 --> 00:07:32,792
- There's no other way to talk
about Bobby Lee Cook
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00:07:32,875 --> 00:07:34,458
other than brilliant.
141
00:07:34,542 --> 00:07:37,000
They say the "Matlock"
television series
142
00:07:37,083 --> 00:07:39,083
was based on Bobby Lee Cook.
143
00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:41,959
- We've heard some
pretty confusing testimony
144
00:07:42,041 --> 00:07:42,959
around here lately.
145
00:07:43,041 --> 00:07:45,166
First, Lucas perjures himself,
146
00:07:45,250 --> 00:07:46,834
and then your wife
perjures herself.
147
00:07:46,917 --> 00:07:48,125
What's going on?
148
00:07:49,917 --> 00:07:54,000
- So we had
a pretty all-star team.
149
00:07:54,083 --> 00:07:57,375
The hearings were down
in Butts County,
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00:07:57,458 --> 00:08:00,166
about an hour
outside of Atlanta.
151
00:08:00,250 --> 00:08:03,291
That's where
the electric chair is,
152
00:08:03,375 --> 00:08:04,709
down there, Butts County.
153
00:08:11,834 --> 00:08:16,500
The hearings are set
in this old courtroom.
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00:08:16,583 --> 00:08:19,500
The press was there.
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00:08:19,583 --> 00:08:21,375
The courtroom was full,
156
00:08:21,458 --> 00:08:25,458
and it played itself out
pretty big.
157
00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:37,583
- You ladies and gentlemen
ready to proceed now?
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00:08:37,667 --> 00:08:39,792
- Yes, we are.
159
00:08:39,875 --> 00:08:42,041
Judge, we'd like
to begin this proceeding
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00:08:42,125 --> 00:08:44,542
with a short overview.
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00:08:44,625 --> 00:08:49,333
We will present a plethora
of undisclosed documents
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00:08:49,417 --> 00:08:51,208
and evidence
that we have collected
163
00:08:51,291 --> 00:08:54,583
since the trial.
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00:08:54,667 --> 00:08:58,417
We do expect to show
that Williams, in fact,
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00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,750
was denied
his constitutional rights
166
00:09:00,834 --> 00:09:03,750
in a very abundant fashion.
167
00:09:03,834 --> 00:09:05,959
- The first witness today,
Billy Joe Whitaker,
168
00:09:06,041 --> 00:09:08,291
says he worked
as a police informant
169
00:09:08,375 --> 00:09:10,959
during the missing
and murdered investigation.
170
00:09:11,041 --> 00:09:12,583
- Why did you come to see me?
171
00:09:12,667 --> 00:09:14,250
I believe you called me,
did you not?
172
00:09:14,333 --> 00:09:17,333
- Yes, sir.
- And why did you do that?
173
00:09:17,417 --> 00:09:18,917
- I figured, "Well,
174
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,583
"here's a man in a penitentiary,
175
00:09:20,667 --> 00:09:22,250
"been there eight or ten years,
176
00:09:22,333 --> 00:09:24,250
"and I know he's not guilty
of what--
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00:09:24,333 --> 00:09:25,792
the ones
they convicted him of."
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00:09:25,875 --> 00:09:26,917
He might've killed
the rest of them.
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00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,250
I don't know about that.
180
00:09:28,333 --> 00:09:30,083
But I knew in my own mind,
181
00:09:30,166 --> 00:09:32,291
and the GBI knew it,
that this man didn't--
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00:09:32,375 --> 00:09:34,917
he didn't kill those two people.
183
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,291
- That's the reason
you came to me?
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00:09:36,375 --> 00:09:38,125
- Yes, sir.
185
00:09:38,208 --> 00:09:39,917
- Billy Whitaker
186
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,208
was a confidential informant
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00:09:42,291 --> 00:09:44,375
who had infiltrated the Klan.
188
00:09:44,458 --> 00:09:45,917
- Hail victory.
189
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,583
Hail victory!
190
00:09:47,667 --> 00:09:48,583
- Hail victory.
191
00:09:48,667 --> 00:09:50,000
Hail victory!
192
00:09:50,083 --> 00:09:53,667
- The first I heard
of potential Klan involvement
193
00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:56,125
was a detective with Atlanta
194
00:09:56,208 --> 00:09:58,083
named Aubrey Melton.
195
00:10:00,834 --> 00:10:03,458
Melton came forward to the GBI
196
00:10:03,542 --> 00:10:05,792
with a confidential informant.
197
00:10:05,875 --> 00:10:08,333
Melton was a good street cop,
198
00:10:08,417 --> 00:10:09,917
but we had the capacity
199
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,000
to bring more resources
to the table.
200
00:10:13,083 --> 00:10:17,333
We took the informant's
information very seriously.
201
00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:19,375
My boss detached me
202
00:10:19,458 --> 00:10:22,792
to head up
the Klan investigation.
203
00:10:25,834 --> 00:10:27,000
The Klan was engaged
204
00:10:27,083 --> 00:10:29,667
in a lot of activity
at the time.
205
00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:31,875
They were marching on weekends,
206
00:10:31,959 --> 00:10:33,917
and they were very disruptive.
207
00:10:35,542 --> 00:10:37,709
The Klan clearly had
208
00:10:37,792 --> 00:10:40,041
every right to march
and protest...
209
00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:41,709
- Go home, nigger!
210
00:10:41,792 --> 00:10:44,000
- But when you enter
criminal activity,
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00:10:44,083 --> 00:10:45,625
they crossed the line
212
00:10:45,709 --> 00:10:47,709
to bring our attention to them.
213
00:10:49,417 --> 00:10:53,000
- The GBI investigation
focuses on the Sanders family.
214
00:10:53,083 --> 00:10:54,166
There are six brothers,
215
00:10:54,250 --> 00:10:55,542
and the Sanders brothers
are involved
216
00:10:55,625 --> 00:10:57,291
in an offshoot of the Klan
217
00:10:57,375 --> 00:10:59,166
called the National
States' Rights Party,
218
00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:00,667
or the NSRP.
219
00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:03,542
It was initially founded
by J.B. Stoner.
220
00:11:03,625 --> 00:11:06,333
- Only way Forsyth County
can have law and order
221
00:11:06,417 --> 00:11:07,625
and peace and tranquility...
222
00:11:07,709 --> 00:11:09,208
Is keep the niggers out.
223
00:11:09,291 --> 00:11:11,417
- And they basically said
the KKK
224
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:12,709
were not radical enough.
225
00:11:12,792 --> 00:11:14,583
One of their earliest recruits
226
00:11:14,667 --> 00:11:17,000
was Joseph Paul Franklin,
227
00:11:17,083 --> 00:11:19,792
who was going around the country
228
00:11:19,875 --> 00:11:23,750
shooting any integrated couple
that he saw.
229
00:11:23,834 --> 00:11:25,750
So that's just--you know,
give you some idea
230
00:11:25,834 --> 00:11:27,375
about the NSRP.
231
00:11:27,458 --> 00:11:29,875
- White power!
- White power!
232
00:11:29,959 --> 00:11:31,750
- One of their chief officers
233
00:11:31,834 --> 00:11:33,750
was Donald Willard Sanders.
234
00:11:35,041 --> 00:11:36,792
He's a third-ranking officer
235
00:11:36,875 --> 00:11:38,208
under J.B. Stoner
236
00:11:40,417 --> 00:11:41,709
He was one of the six brothers
237
00:11:41,792 --> 00:11:43,083
in the Sanders clan.
238
00:11:44,792 --> 00:11:46,375
They were notorious
drug addicts.
239
00:11:46,458 --> 00:11:47,750
I mean, they shot
every drug in the book,
240
00:11:47,834 --> 00:11:50,959
and they sold
every drug in the book.
241
00:11:51,041 --> 00:11:53,083
The main suspects
were the older brothers,
242
00:11:53,166 --> 00:11:55,625
Don Sanders, Jerry Sanders,
243
00:11:55,709 --> 00:11:57,208
and Charles Sanders.
244
00:11:58,834 --> 00:12:01,792
- How long had you known
Charles T. Sanders?
245
00:12:01,875 --> 00:12:03,834
- Well, at that time,
I'd probably known him
246
00:12:03,917 --> 00:12:05,250
ten years.
247
00:12:05,333 --> 00:12:07,208
Charles said--
248
00:12:07,291 --> 00:12:09,875
he was always trying to get me
to join the Klan, you know,
249
00:12:09,959 --> 00:12:12,250
and...
250
00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:15,542
they said they had
a lot of money behind them,
251
00:12:15,625 --> 00:12:17,083
people I didn't know,
252
00:12:17,166 --> 00:12:20,792
and people even he didn't know,
he said.
253
00:12:20,875 --> 00:12:22,709
Charles took me downstairs
254
00:12:22,792 --> 00:12:24,417
in the garage.
255
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,417
They had bazookas, they had--
256
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:27,583
- Bazookas?
257
00:12:27,667 --> 00:12:28,792
- Bazookas, yeah.
258
00:12:28,875 --> 00:12:30,667
They had hand grenades.
259
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:33,291
They had C-2 and C-4 explosives.
260
00:12:33,375 --> 00:12:35,166
Well, they had police uniforms,
261
00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:37,458
Atlanta police uniforms.
They had...
262
00:12:37,542 --> 00:12:39,959
- The Sanders brothers had
all these different uniforms.
263
00:12:40,041 --> 00:12:41,542
- Had DeKalb County uniform.
264
00:12:41,625 --> 00:12:43,792
- Coca-Cola, Purolator.
265
00:12:43,875 --> 00:12:46,291
- They had sanitation uniforms.
266
00:12:46,375 --> 00:12:49,125
- So maybe this let them be
in certain places undetected.
267
00:12:51,041 --> 00:12:53,291
- One of the theories
was that the perpetrator
268
00:12:53,375 --> 00:12:54,917
had to be somebody
that was gonna
269
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,500
walk around that neighborhood
270
00:12:56,583 --> 00:12:57,750
almost invisible,
271
00:12:57,834 --> 00:12:58,917
so like a postman
272
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,291
or a police officer.
273
00:13:03,083 --> 00:13:04,792
- It's possible
that these children
274
00:13:04,875 --> 00:13:07,000
are being captured by the Klan
275
00:13:07,083 --> 00:13:09,625
dressed in law enforcement
uniforms.
276
00:13:09,709 --> 00:13:11,291
- You know, everybody,
everything evolves,
277
00:13:11,375 --> 00:13:12,625
and the Klan had evolved.
278
00:13:12,709 --> 00:13:17,000
They had this idea where we're
going to start a race war.
279
00:13:17,083 --> 00:13:19,667
- We're convinced
that there's a race war
280
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:22,417
that is inevitable
in this country.
281
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:25,083
We feel that there will
be so much shooting
282
00:13:25,166 --> 00:13:26,625
and burning and looting
and rioting
283
00:13:26,709 --> 00:13:28,291
that literally, the authorities
284
00:13:28,375 --> 00:13:30,750
will not be able to cope
with it.
285
00:13:30,834 --> 00:13:32,250
- So what will Klansmen do?
286
00:13:32,333 --> 00:13:34,500
- Well, we're gonna defend
ourselves and our property
287
00:13:34,583 --> 00:13:38,333
and help assist other people
in doing the same.
288
00:13:38,417 --> 00:13:41,625
- At the time, there
was a lot of uncertainty
289
00:13:41,709 --> 00:13:44,166
about who was going to control
the political structure,
290
00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:46,834
who was going to control
the economic resources,
291
00:13:46,917 --> 00:13:49,041
and the Klan was empowered.
292
00:13:49,125 --> 00:13:51,667
They were making
their presence felt.
293
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:53,834
- It was like this was a plan
294
00:13:53,917 --> 00:13:58,583
to diminish Atlanta's
and Maynard Jackson's success.
295
00:14:00,458 --> 00:14:02,959
- These were not people
who were simply
296
00:14:03,041 --> 00:14:06,208
play-acting at being bad guys.
297
00:14:06,291 --> 00:14:09,875
And so Aubrey Melton persuaded
298
00:14:09,959 --> 00:14:14,417
the GBI to apply
for wiretap warrants,
299
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:16,917
which can only be made
on the showing
300
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,917
of probable cause
to believe the people involved
301
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,875
had committed a crime,
302
00:14:21,959 --> 00:14:23,542
in this case, the child murders.
303
00:14:23,625 --> 00:14:25,542
- They wanted me to wear a bug.
304
00:14:25,625 --> 00:14:27,375
- Did you agree to that?
305
00:14:27,458 --> 00:14:28,917
- I didn't care what they did.
You know, I was trying--
306
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,375
- You agreed to it.
- I was trying to help them
307
00:14:30,458 --> 00:14:31,917
catch the people doing that.
308
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,375
- How did they wire you up?
309
00:14:34,458 --> 00:14:36,667
- They just put it on me
and taped it around me.
310
00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:38,917
- While the wiretap
was in progress,
311
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,291
we also conducted
physical surveillance.
312
00:14:44,458 --> 00:14:47,542
- There were,
to the best of your knowledge,
313
00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:49,750
dozens, if not hundreds,
of those tapes.
314
00:14:49,834 --> 00:14:50,917
Isn't that right?
315
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,792
- There were several
316
00:14:52,875 --> 00:14:55,417
reel-to-reel tapes made.
317
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,417
When you monitor,
you monitor 24/7,
318
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:00,542
from when they get up
to when they go to bed,
319
00:15:00,625 --> 00:15:04,875
hours and hours,
days and days of tapes.
320
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:07,917
- Was there ever
any conversation that you had
321
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,709
that was recorded
322
00:15:09,792 --> 00:15:13,041
with reference to what
Charles Sanders
323
00:15:13,125 --> 00:15:16,917
and his group were doing
with children?
324
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,834
- They was killing niggers.
That's what he said.
325
00:15:19,917 --> 00:15:21,333
He told me,
"We're killing niggers.
326
00:15:21,417 --> 00:15:23,625
We're gonna start
killing females too."
327
00:15:28,041 --> 00:15:30,083
He said, "We killed a lot
of these fucking niggers."
328
00:15:40,166 --> 00:15:44,125
- When a man is charged
with the killing of 29 people,
329
00:15:44,208 --> 00:15:46,291
and they charge him for two,
330
00:15:46,375 --> 00:15:48,375
there's a lot
of unanswered questions.
331
00:15:49,333 --> 00:15:50,834
- Like what?
332
00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:54,208
- Like what happened
to the other 27?
333
00:15:54,291 --> 00:15:57,125
There was 29.
He was convicted on 2.
334
00:15:58,667 --> 00:15:59,625
- I'd be interested
to know what happened--
335
00:15:59,709 --> 00:16:01,166
- John, you ain't rolling that,
are you?
336
00:16:01,250 --> 00:16:02,291
- Hmm?
- Yes.
337
00:16:02,375 --> 00:16:03,542
- You're not rolling this,
are you?
338
00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:04,625
- Yes.
- I'm rolling.
339
00:16:05,917 --> 00:16:09,000
- I would think there's a lot
of unanswered questions.
340
00:16:09,083 --> 00:16:10,834
You don't?
I mean...
341
00:16:10,917 --> 00:16:14,417
there's 27 unsolved mysteries
out there.
342
00:16:22,625 --> 00:16:26,709
And your name is surfacing
343
00:16:26,792 --> 00:16:29,667
in connection with...
344
00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:37,417
In connection
with this quote that...
345
00:16:39,542 --> 00:16:41,166
"Yeah, we damn sure did.
346
00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:43,458
We killed a lot
of them niggers."
347
00:16:48,458 --> 00:16:49,542
- That's a blatant lie.
348
00:16:49,625 --> 00:16:53,000
That's a blatant lie
from Mr. Bill Whitaker,
349
00:16:53,083 --> 00:16:56,625
and that's a blatant lie
from the defense.
350
00:17:00,083 --> 00:17:02,917
- You reported all of this
to Mr. Melton.
351
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,375
- Well, I told him
I knew about--
352
00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:08,041
about one of those kids
getting killed,
353
00:17:08,125 --> 00:17:09,542
who it was that did it,
354
00:17:09,625 --> 00:17:12,375
and he had told me
he was gonna do it,
355
00:17:12,458 --> 00:17:13,959
and it happened.
356
00:17:14,041 --> 00:17:15,750
I read it in the paper,
so I called Melton.
357
00:17:15,834 --> 00:17:17,500
- All right.
What'd you tell Mr. Melton?
358
00:17:17,583 --> 00:17:19,834
- Well, I told him that
I believed Charles Sanders
359
00:17:19,917 --> 00:17:21,500
of the Ku Klux Klan
360
00:17:21,583 --> 00:17:24,166
killed this one kid named Geter.
361
00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:26,208
This little kid
run into his van.
362
00:17:26,291 --> 00:17:27,250
- What little kid?
363
00:17:27,333 --> 00:17:29,917
- Geter, on a go-cart.
364
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,083
He lost control of it,
365
00:17:31,166 --> 00:17:33,250
and he run into the side
of that van.
366
00:17:33,333 --> 00:17:35,959
- Geter ran into Sanders's car
with the go-cart?
367
00:17:36,041 --> 00:17:38,375
- Yeah, and he said,
"I'm gonna" --
368
00:17:38,458 --> 00:17:40,458
well, I don't want to say that.
- Use the words that he said.
369
00:17:40,542 --> 00:17:43,083
This is a court, court of law,
370
00:17:43,166 --> 00:17:45,875
and use the words that he said.
371
00:17:47,166 --> 00:17:48,291
- Well, you got ladies in here.
372
00:17:48,375 --> 00:17:51,083
- That's all right.
You go ahead.
373
00:17:51,166 --> 00:17:52,125
- Well, he said, "I'm gonna kill
374
00:17:52,208 --> 00:17:53,458
"that little black bastard,
375
00:17:53,542 --> 00:17:55,125
"and I'm gonna choke him
to death with my dick
376
00:17:55,208 --> 00:17:57,041
and put him
on Martin Luther King's grave."
377
00:17:58,667 --> 00:18:00,875
- You reported all of this
to Mr. Melton.
378
00:18:00,959 --> 00:18:02,583
- To Melton, yeah.
379
00:18:02,667 --> 00:18:06,000
- Whitaker was able to link
one of the Sanders
380
00:18:06,083 --> 00:18:08,125
to the case of Lubie Geter,
381
00:18:08,208 --> 00:18:10,458
whose death was ultimately used
382
00:18:10,542 --> 00:18:12,291
against Wayne Williams
383
00:18:12,375 --> 00:18:15,250
as one of the ten pattern cases.
384
00:18:16,375 --> 00:18:19,041
That's significant,
because that actually ties
385
00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:20,583
a member of the Klan
386
00:18:20,667 --> 00:18:23,458
directly to one of the children
387
00:18:23,542 --> 00:18:26,291
that Wayne was credited
with murdering.
388
00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:33,458
- I had known Lubie
probably from the sixth grade.
389
00:18:33,542 --> 00:18:36,333
Lubie and I were friends
and classmates.
390
00:18:36,417 --> 00:18:37,500
He was a good kid.
391
00:18:37,583 --> 00:18:38,834
You know, he got in trouble
like I did in school
392
00:18:38,917 --> 00:18:40,250
a few times,
393
00:18:40,333 --> 00:18:41,375
talking in class,
394
00:18:41,458 --> 00:18:42,792
maybe talking back to teachers
here and there,
395
00:18:42,875 --> 00:18:45,125
but normal, fun, loving kid.
396
00:18:47,959 --> 00:18:49,834
He was one of the few kids
in our community
397
00:18:49,917 --> 00:18:52,792
that still had both parents
active in his life.
398
00:18:54,917 --> 00:18:57,166
I remember, like,
before Christmas break,
399
00:18:57,250 --> 00:18:58,333
Lubie was talking to us.
400
00:18:58,417 --> 00:19:00,417
He was telling us about these
car care product
401
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,166
that he was selling.
402
00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:04,166
But close to when school
opened back up again
403
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:05,667
after the Christmas break,
404
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:08,542
we saw on the news
that Lubie was missing.
405
00:19:08,625 --> 00:19:10,458
- 14-year-old Lubie Geter
406
00:19:10,542 --> 00:19:12,834
went to a South Side
Atlanta shopping center
407
00:19:12,917 --> 00:19:14,792
on Saturday to sell
air fresheners
408
00:19:14,875 --> 00:19:15,959
for automobiles.
409
00:19:16,041 --> 00:19:17,834
He never came home.
410
00:19:17,917 --> 00:19:20,458
- Police say, so far,
they're stumped.
411
00:19:21,709 --> 00:19:24,709
- A month afterwards
is when they found his body.
412
00:19:28,792 --> 00:19:30,709
After he was found dead,
413
00:19:30,792 --> 00:19:32,500
there were some nights
I didn't sleep.
414
00:19:34,291 --> 00:19:37,000
There was always a ringing bell
in the back of my head, like,
415
00:19:37,083 --> 00:19:40,208
normal, you know,
Atlanta teenager.
416
00:19:40,291 --> 00:19:41,875
How could he get caught up
in the middle of this?
417
00:19:46,166 --> 00:19:48,041
- This Mr. Whitaker says
418
00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:50,375
that he asked Sanders
specifically
419
00:19:50,458 --> 00:19:53,500
about 14-year-old Lubie Geter.
420
00:19:55,792 --> 00:19:57,875
- Well, I can remember this
very clearly.
421
00:19:57,959 --> 00:20:04,834
Uh, Mr. Whitaker had
brought this to my attention
422
00:20:04,917 --> 00:20:09,000
a couple days
after Lubie Geter was killed.
423
00:20:11,208 --> 00:20:13,709
And he was telling me
424
00:20:13,792 --> 00:20:18,083
that he was gonna kill
that... black boy
425
00:20:18,166 --> 00:20:19,917
because he run into my car.
426
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,583
- Well, that's what he's saying
you said.
427
00:20:21,667 --> 00:20:23,750
- True.
428
00:20:23,834 --> 00:20:24,917
He's turning it around.
429
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,667
That's not the way it happened.
430
00:20:28,166 --> 00:20:29,750
- Did there come a point in time
431
00:20:29,834 --> 00:20:33,291
in which they sent you
to Charles Sanders's house
432
00:20:33,375 --> 00:20:35,250
and wanted you to ask
specific questions
433
00:20:35,333 --> 00:20:36,917
about the Geter boy?
434
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,083
- Yeah.
435
00:20:38,166 --> 00:20:40,417
I said, "Well, you killed
that damn Geter kid,
436
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:41,417
didn't you?"
437
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,417
He said, "Yeah, I damn sure did.
438
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,834
I killed
the little black bastard."
439
00:20:45,917 --> 00:20:47,458
- Was that recorded?
440
00:20:47,542 --> 00:20:49,250
- I assume it--I don't know
why it wouldn't have--
441
00:20:49,333 --> 00:20:51,041
if they didn't get it, I don't
know why they didn't get it.
442
00:20:51,125 --> 00:20:55,125
- Charles T. Sanders
admitted killing Geter.
443
00:20:55,208 --> 00:20:56,208
- The next witness,
444
00:20:56,291 --> 00:20:58,500
former Atlanta police chief
George Napper
445
00:20:58,583 --> 00:21:00,417
says he does not remember
446
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,041
his officers ever telling him
447
00:21:02,125 --> 00:21:04,417
about possible Klan involvement.
448
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,375
- He had told them
about the Klan being involved
449
00:21:08,458 --> 00:21:09,917
in the child murders?
450
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,458
- No, I don't recall that
at all.
451
00:21:11,542 --> 00:21:13,291
- Well, you say
"I don't recall."
452
00:21:13,375 --> 00:21:15,667
That's your answer to a lot
of questions here today.
453
00:21:15,750 --> 00:21:17,125
Does that mean you don't recall,
454
00:21:17,208 --> 00:21:18,458
he might have told you,
455
00:21:18,542 --> 00:21:21,291
or you have no memory now,
or it didn't happen?
456
00:21:21,375 --> 00:21:23,458
- I don't know
whether it happened or not.
457
00:21:23,542 --> 00:21:25,333
- You have
a black man testifying.
458
00:21:25,417 --> 00:21:27,083
- I don't think so, no.
459
00:21:27,166 --> 00:21:28,709
- You mean to tell me that
460
00:21:28,792 --> 00:21:30,959
the Klan is involved
461
00:21:31,041 --> 00:21:33,125
in the missing and murdered
children case,
462
00:21:33,208 --> 00:21:35,917
and you don't remember?
463
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,458
They knew about it.
464
00:21:37,542 --> 00:21:39,333
- I don't recall that happening.
465
00:21:39,417 --> 00:21:43,667
- You know, they gave a lot
of disingenuous answers.
466
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:45,667
- Have you ever seen
that document before?
467
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:48,333
- Not that I know of.
I don't recall, so.
468
00:21:48,417 --> 00:21:50,875
I don't remember.
I--you know, I'm sure
469
00:21:50,959 --> 00:21:52,208
he said something,
I just don't remember
470
00:21:52,291 --> 00:21:54,834
that the--
that there was anything said
471
00:21:54,917 --> 00:21:57,667
other than that,
if there was information
472
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,667
pertaining to our investigation,
473
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:01,834
that they would let us know
what was going on.
474
00:22:01,917 --> 00:22:04,000
- I'm afraid that at this time,
475
00:22:04,083 --> 00:22:07,333
I'm not clear
on exactly what to report.
476
00:22:07,417 --> 00:22:10,000
- Push the mic up a little bit.
There.
477
00:22:10,083 --> 00:22:12,166
- I don't know.
- I do not know.
478
00:22:12,250 --> 00:22:14,792
I don't recall that.
- I don't recall.
479
00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:16,208
- My answer is, I don't recall.
480
00:22:16,291 --> 00:22:18,208
- I don't recall that I remember
481
00:22:18,291 --> 00:22:20,208
exactly that it said
Lubie Geter.
482
00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:22,041
- I don't know.
483
00:22:22,125 --> 00:22:23,834
- You ever had
any discussion about that?
484
00:22:23,917 --> 00:22:25,583
- I don't have a recall, sir.
485
00:22:27,291 --> 00:22:29,792
- But that would be bad,
now, wouldn't it?
486
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:35,250
- Well, it's getting
to the point.
487
00:22:35,333 --> 00:22:38,166
It's right lunchtime.
All right.
488
00:22:38,250 --> 00:22:39,333
- We're hearing
about some lapses
489
00:22:39,417 --> 00:22:40,583
of memory here.
490
00:22:40,667 --> 00:22:42,041
Do you believe these gentlemen
when they say they don't--
491
00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,000
- No, I don't.
492
00:22:43,083 --> 00:22:45,208
These are convenient lapses
of memory.
493
00:22:45,291 --> 00:22:47,417
Can you imagine
the chief of police
494
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:49,542
can't recall
anything that happened
495
00:22:49,625 --> 00:22:52,542
in the most major investigation
in the history of Atlanta,
496
00:22:52,625 --> 00:22:54,083
if not of Georgia?
497
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:55,542
And he can't remember anything?
498
00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:57,709
I can't recall this,
I can't recall that.
499
00:22:57,792 --> 00:23:00,083
He can't recall
that someone confessed
500
00:23:00,166 --> 00:23:01,792
to the murder of Lubie Geter?
501
00:23:01,875 --> 00:23:03,750
Impossible.
502
00:23:03,834 --> 00:23:05,917
- Because of the nature
of the case,
503
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,125
the sensitivity of the case,
504
00:23:08,208 --> 00:23:10,250
we went far above and beyond.
505
00:23:10,333 --> 00:23:13,583
It is very uncommon
that you would run
506
00:23:13,667 --> 00:23:15,917
multiple
electronic surveillances,
507
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,208
multiple physical surveillances.
508
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,250
- The GBI looked for anything
associated with the case.
509
00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:26,250
They looked for fiber.
510
00:23:26,333 --> 00:23:28,125
They looked for dogs.
511
00:23:28,208 --> 00:23:31,583
- Trace evidence in the case
included dog hair
512
00:23:31,667 --> 00:23:34,083
that most likely belonged
to a husky
513
00:23:34,166 --> 00:23:35,625
or a malamute.
514
00:23:35,709 --> 00:23:38,333
The Klansmen had a dog.
515
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,250
- Did anyone ask you
516
00:23:40,333 --> 00:23:43,500
to check and see
if Charles Sanders had a dog?
517
00:23:43,583 --> 00:23:44,750
- Yes, sir.
518
00:23:44,834 --> 00:23:47,375
- And what did they
want to know?
519
00:23:47,458 --> 00:23:49,000
- Well, they wanted
some hair off the dog,
520
00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:50,000
and I--
521
00:23:50,083 --> 00:23:51,792
- Hair off of what dog?
522
00:23:51,875 --> 00:23:53,125
- Charles Sanders' dog.
523
00:23:53,208 --> 00:23:55,959
- What kind of dog
did Charles Sanders have?
524
00:23:56,041 --> 00:23:58,208
- Alaskan husky.
525
00:23:59,208 --> 00:24:01,333
- A husky?
- Yes, sir.
526
00:24:02,875 --> 00:24:04,625
- Did you ever own a dog?
527
00:24:04,709 --> 00:24:06,458
- Yes.
528
00:24:06,542 --> 00:24:09,625
- A Alaskan malamute?
529
00:24:09,709 --> 00:24:12,625
- No, I never had a...
530
00:24:12,709 --> 00:24:14,959
- And a Siberian husky.
531
00:24:15,041 --> 00:24:17,291
- Well, my dog Trigger,
532
00:24:17,375 --> 00:24:19,917
sh--she was pretty close
to a Siberian,
533
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,959
but it was a German shepherd.
534
00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:24,375
I had a German shepherd.
535
00:24:24,458 --> 00:24:26,834
She was pretty close
to a Siberian.
536
00:24:26,917 --> 00:24:30,291
But had a little shih tzu puppy,
537
00:24:30,375 --> 00:24:34,125
and I had a German shepherd,
538
00:24:34,208 --> 00:24:36,959
and I also had a pig
by the name of Sausage.
539
00:24:38,959 --> 00:24:41,000
- Did Mr. Melton
and the GBI officer
540
00:24:41,083 --> 00:24:43,000
ask you to get anything else?
541
00:24:43,083 --> 00:24:44,208
- Well, he said,
542
00:24:44,291 --> 00:24:45,834
"Well, will you get me
something out of the house?"
543
00:24:45,917 --> 00:24:47,166
I said, "Yeah, if I can."
544
00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:49,166
He told me just reach down
on the carpet
545
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:51,083
in the living room
and get a little--
546
00:24:51,166 --> 00:24:52,333
you know, just a speck
or something--
547
00:24:52,417 --> 00:24:54,500
you know, just whatever
I could pull out.
548
00:24:54,583 --> 00:24:56,417
- What kind of carpet was it?
549
00:24:57,041 --> 00:25:00,792
- Uh, this old green
fuzzy carpet.
550
00:25:00,875 --> 00:25:03,667
- So okay, there's
a green fiber here as well.
551
00:25:05,291 --> 00:25:07,166
- And then there's
a conversation
552
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:09,208
in April that was recorded.
553
00:25:09,291 --> 00:25:11,583
Terry Sanders says,
"Hey, where you going?
554
00:25:11,667 --> 00:25:13,125
Out to get
another little kid?"
555
00:25:15,417 --> 00:25:17,208
And Don Sanders said,
"Well, yeah,
556
00:25:17,291 --> 00:25:18,959
scope out some places."
557
00:25:20,458 --> 00:25:23,166
A few weeks later,
the GBI brought in
558
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:25,667
Jerry Sanders, Don Sanders,
559
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:27,250
and Charles Sanders.
560
00:25:28,792 --> 00:25:31,083
- Were you ever picked up?
- Yes, I was.
561
00:25:31,166 --> 00:25:32,750
- Can you tell me about that?
562
00:25:32,834 --> 00:25:37,041
- Uh, Mr. Joe Jackson,
GBI investigator,
563
00:25:37,125 --> 00:25:39,750
took me to GBI headquarters
564
00:25:39,834 --> 00:25:41,542
and interrogated me.
565
00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:45,417
I was accused
of distributing explosives.
566
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,750
Uh...
567
00:25:47,834 --> 00:25:50,709
I was accused of killing
a young man
568
00:25:50,792 --> 00:25:53,083
by the name of Lubie Geter,
569
00:25:53,166 --> 00:25:55,375
which I don't know
nothing about.
570
00:26:03,041 --> 00:26:05,625
You know, they questioned me
extensively.
571
00:26:05,709 --> 00:26:07,875
Uh...
572
00:26:07,959 --> 00:26:10,083
and then they took me
back to my house.
573
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:14,417
I think Mr. Jackson realized
574
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,542
that I had no knowledge
575
00:26:17,625 --> 00:26:19,709
of his investigation.
576
00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:25,125
- Anyway, there came
a point in time
577
00:26:25,208 --> 00:26:31,417
in which you ceased working
for the GBI and Mr. Melton.
578
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:33,750
What blew up this investigation?
579
00:26:33,834 --> 00:26:35,166
When did it stop?
580
00:26:36,542 --> 00:26:37,667
- Well...
581
00:26:37,750 --> 00:26:39,750
- Must be something
that happened.
582
00:26:41,834 --> 00:26:44,125
- Well, this man's
not gonna like it,
583
00:26:44,208 --> 00:26:45,625
but I'm gonna tell it
like it is.
584
00:26:45,709 --> 00:26:48,291
A agent named Jackson,
a GBI agent.
585
00:26:48,375 --> 00:26:49,792
- Jackson?
- Yeah, which--
586
00:26:49,875 --> 00:26:51,125
when Melton told me about it,
587
00:26:51,208 --> 00:26:53,083
he said a goddamn idiot
GBI agent
588
00:26:53,166 --> 00:26:54,792
blowed it, blowed everything.
589
00:26:54,875 --> 00:26:55,875
I said, "Who is it?"
He said,
590
00:26:55,959 --> 00:26:57,750
"That son of a bitch
named Jackson."
591
00:26:59,375 --> 00:27:01,583
- State your full name, please.
592
00:27:02,667 --> 00:27:05,458
- Joe Bledsoe Jackson, Jr.
593
00:27:05,542 --> 00:27:09,166
- Did you ask either Terry
or Don Sanders
594
00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:10,625
about a conversation
595
00:27:10,709 --> 00:27:12,417
about scoping out some children?
596
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,208
- Mr. Cook...
- Finding another kid?
597
00:27:17,291 --> 00:27:19,000
- Judge, I'd like
the opportunity
598
00:27:19,083 --> 00:27:20,709
to discuss this matter
with counsel.
599
00:27:20,792 --> 00:27:23,542
- I'd like for him
to answer the question.
600
00:27:23,625 --> 00:27:25,959
- The question is, did you ask
601
00:27:26,041 --> 00:27:28,166
either of the Sanders that
during interviews?
602
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:30,166
- Yes, sir.
- Okay.
603
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:32,667
Now, Judge, if you don't mind,
604
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:33,750
could you and I
go into chambers?
605
00:27:33,834 --> 00:27:35,458
- No, no, I'm not
going into chambers.
606
00:27:35,542 --> 00:27:37,000
Mr. Jackson,
let's just simplify this.
607
00:27:37,083 --> 00:27:39,000
Answer his question now.
608
00:27:39,083 --> 00:27:40,625
- Yes, sir.
609
00:27:40,709 --> 00:27:42,750
- Well,
610
00:27:42,834 --> 00:27:46,667
what did Terry or Don Sanders
say about that?
611
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:49,083
- They stated--
- That they were just joking?
612
00:27:50,166 --> 00:27:51,542
- That's correct, sir.
613
00:27:51,625 --> 00:27:54,250
They related to me
that it was a joking
614
00:27:54,333 --> 00:27:55,959
type of conversation.
615
00:27:56,041 --> 00:27:58,250
- Talking about killing
little kids
616
00:27:58,333 --> 00:28:00,208
being a joking conversation.
617
00:28:00,291 --> 00:28:02,583
Did you laugh with them?
618
00:28:02,667 --> 00:28:05,709
- Mr. Cook, the conversation
that you refer to
619
00:28:05,792 --> 00:28:08,208
took place on April Fools' Day.
620
00:28:08,291 --> 00:28:10,750
- Oh, I see.
That was their explanation,
621
00:28:10,834 --> 00:28:12,792
that the conversation took place
622
00:28:12,875 --> 00:28:14,667
on April Fools' Day?
623
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:16,041
- That's correct, sir.
624
00:28:16,125 --> 00:28:19,917
- And you accepted that
as being a good faith reply?
625
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,250
- That, along with the other
surveillance techniques
626
00:28:25,333 --> 00:28:27,959
that we were utilizing
during this time period.
627
00:28:29,291 --> 00:28:33,250
- And then there's
a matter of the tapes.
628
00:28:33,333 --> 00:28:38,417
- This case generated
a number of cassette tapes.
629
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:40,583
- Yes.
- What became of those?
630
00:28:40,667 --> 00:28:42,542
- The tapes, to my knowledge,
631
00:28:42,625 --> 00:28:43,750
have been destroyed.
632
00:28:48,667 --> 00:28:54,583
- Wayne Williams was arrested
on June 3, 1981.
633
00:28:54,667 --> 00:28:58,417
It says "destroyed 7/31/81."
634
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,083
- Yes, sir.
- And whose initial is that?
635
00:29:01,166 --> 00:29:02,917
- Those are my initials.
636
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,667
- GBI agent Jackson
637
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:08,125
destroyed the tapes
638
00:29:08,208 --> 00:29:13,583
while Wayne's original trial
was pending,
639
00:29:13,667 --> 00:29:15,917
which looks very suspicious.
640
00:29:18,166 --> 00:29:21,333
Why would they destroy
the evidence?
641
00:29:21,417 --> 00:29:24,166
- Did you listen to all
of the tape recordings?
642
00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:27,250
- I don't remember listening
to each of them, no, sir.
643
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:29,792
- Well, wouldn't you have
listened to all of them?
644
00:29:29,875 --> 00:29:31,792
- I don't know
that I heard them all.
645
00:29:31,875 --> 00:29:32,750
I may have.
646
00:29:32,834 --> 00:29:34,291
I don't remember.
647
00:29:34,375 --> 00:29:36,625
- You say you may have
heard all of them?
648
00:29:36,709 --> 00:29:38,000
- That's correct.
649
00:29:38,083 --> 00:29:40,083
- And no record was made of it.
650
00:29:40,166 --> 00:29:41,792
No transcript.
651
00:29:41,875 --> 00:29:43,250
- I don't think so.
652
00:29:43,333 --> 00:29:44,500
- And you were investigating
653
00:29:44,583 --> 00:29:46,625
the missing
and murdered children.
654
00:29:46,709 --> 00:29:48,333
- What I was investigating
655
00:29:48,417 --> 00:29:50,250
was whether or not
this particular group
656
00:29:50,333 --> 00:29:51,458
had anything to do with it...
657
00:29:51,542 --> 00:29:52,792
- Right.
- And they did not.
658
00:29:52,875 --> 00:29:54,750
- And they did not,
and you concluded that.
659
00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:56,000
- Yes, sir.
- And you don't remember
660
00:29:56,083 --> 00:29:57,166
what was on the tapes
661
00:29:57,250 --> 00:29:58,166
'cause you don't even know
662
00:29:58,250 --> 00:29:59,375
that you listened
to all of them.
663
00:29:59,458 --> 00:30:02,458
- Well, sir, Mr. Cook,
what I do recall for certain
664
00:30:02,542 --> 00:30:05,875
is that there was no mention
665
00:30:05,959 --> 00:30:07,291
in any form or fashion
666
00:30:07,375 --> 00:30:10,500
in which these people
were killing any children.
667
00:30:10,583 --> 00:30:11,750
- Well, how would you know that
668
00:30:11,834 --> 00:30:15,041
if you don't remember
hearing the tapes?
669
00:30:15,125 --> 00:30:18,208
- Uh, it just--that's the way
I recall it.
670
00:30:18,291 --> 00:30:21,625
There's no tie whatsoever
to any murders.
671
00:30:27,417 --> 00:30:31,166
- You know,
these are Klansmen, rednecks,
672
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:35,208
who spewed racial rhetoric
every day,
673
00:30:35,291 --> 00:30:38,542
just people
running their mouths.
674
00:30:38,625 --> 00:30:41,375
Sanders was brought in
and polygraphed,
675
00:30:41,458 --> 00:30:42,834
which was negative.
676
00:30:42,917 --> 00:30:44,917
As a result of the searches,
677
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,542
examination of the fiber...
678
00:30:46,625 --> 00:30:48,333
There was no indication
679
00:30:48,417 --> 00:30:50,375
that the Sanders family
had killed
680
00:30:50,458 --> 00:30:52,709
any of those children.
681
00:30:52,792 --> 00:30:56,417
The information was determined
to be unfounded.
682
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,917
As a result,
the investigation was closed.
683
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,250
- All right, we'll be in recess,
684
00:31:01,333 --> 00:31:03,250
and if there's nothing else,
until 9:00 in the morning.
685
00:31:04,333 --> 00:31:07,000
- I think Mr. Cook,
686
00:31:07,083 --> 00:31:08,709
Mr. Kunstler,
687
00:31:08,792 --> 00:31:11,208
Mr. Whatley,
688
00:31:11,291 --> 00:31:14,333
should really look
at what they have.
689
00:31:16,125 --> 00:31:18,750
If you have a case
against Charles Sanders
690
00:31:18,834 --> 00:31:20,959
or his family,
691
00:31:21,041 --> 00:31:23,500
put it up, or else shut up.
692
00:31:27,208 --> 00:31:28,750
- You know, other
than him boasting
693
00:31:28,834 --> 00:31:30,625
that he was going to do this,
694
00:31:30,709 --> 00:31:33,542
there was no evidence
he had done it.
695
00:31:33,625 --> 00:31:35,583
- Anything else?
- The end.
696
00:31:39,542 --> 00:31:41,125
- And the evidence
on Lubie Geter,
697
00:31:41,208 --> 00:31:43,750
none of it pointed
to Charles Sanders.
698
00:31:43,834 --> 00:31:45,250
In other words,
there was nothing there
699
00:31:45,333 --> 00:31:48,083
other than a Klansman
bragging, apparently,
700
00:31:48,166 --> 00:31:51,250
to another Klansman
701
00:31:51,333 --> 00:31:54,959
about something that...
702
00:31:55,041 --> 00:31:56,208
didn't happen.
703
00:31:56,291 --> 00:31:58,208
- If had been the Sanders,
704
00:31:58,291 --> 00:32:01,166
I would've been the first
to put the handcuffs on them.
705
00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:03,458
Uh, it wasn't the Sanders,
706
00:32:03,542 --> 00:32:05,458
and we moved on.
707
00:32:07,041 --> 00:32:10,458
- I was never willing
to go so far as to say
708
00:32:10,542 --> 00:32:12,125
that members
of the Sanders family
709
00:32:12,208 --> 00:32:13,250
were guilty,
710
00:32:13,333 --> 00:32:15,417
but we will never
actually know for sure,
711
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:18,458
because the tapes
were destroyed.
712
00:32:19,917 --> 00:32:21,583
- What I do think:
713
00:32:21,667 --> 00:32:26,458
there was at least as much
reliable evidence
714
00:32:26,542 --> 00:32:28,667
against the Sanders family
715
00:32:28,750 --> 00:32:31,250
for one or more
of those killings
716
00:32:31,333 --> 00:32:33,458
than there was
against Wayne Williams,
717
00:32:33,542 --> 00:32:36,458
and I also believe
beyond any possible doubt
718
00:32:36,542 --> 00:32:39,250
that had the jury learned
719
00:32:39,333 --> 00:32:41,583
of the Sanders family
involvement,
720
00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:44,792
of the threats
against Lubie Geter,
721
00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:47,000
Sanders' husky,
722
00:32:47,083 --> 00:32:48,625
I do think the jury
may have come
723
00:32:48,709 --> 00:32:51,041
to a very, very different
conclusion.
724
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:52,792
- Were these people
simply incompetent,
725
00:32:52,875 --> 00:32:54,542
or was there some--
- Was who incompetent?
726
00:32:54,625 --> 00:32:56,125
- The police investigation.
727
00:32:56,208 --> 00:32:57,667
- Well, I don't--
728
00:32:57,750 --> 00:33:00,000
I don't want
to characterize it as that.
729
00:33:00,083 --> 00:33:02,125
I don't know what they were.
- I think I know what it was.
730
00:33:02,208 --> 00:33:03,417
- You know, I'll let them
speak for themselves.
731
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:04,375
- All right.
- I'll speak,
732
00:33:04,458 --> 00:33:05,500
not being from Georgia.
733
00:33:05,583 --> 00:33:07,250
This was a device
734
00:33:07,333 --> 00:33:10,041
to a keep a race war
from happening,
735
00:33:10,125 --> 00:33:12,166
and if they indicted
someone from the Klan,
736
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:14,667
that's what was gonna happen,
in their opinion,
737
00:33:14,750 --> 00:33:17,000
and if they indicted someone
who was black,
738
00:33:17,083 --> 00:33:18,458
it would not happen.
739
00:33:18,542 --> 00:33:20,000
And they made
a calculated choice.
740
00:33:20,083 --> 00:33:22,667
They wanted to sacrifice
Wayne Williams
741
00:33:22,750 --> 00:33:24,542
in order to keep the peace.
742
00:33:27,166 --> 00:33:30,458
- After Wayne Williams
became a suspect,
743
00:33:30,542 --> 00:33:32,542
all of these other
investigations
744
00:33:32,625 --> 00:33:34,542
were closed.
745
00:33:34,625 --> 00:33:38,375
Anything that suggested
Wayne could be innocent
746
00:33:38,458 --> 00:33:40,709
was simply cast aside
747
00:33:40,792 --> 00:33:44,792
because Wayne Williams
solved a lot of problems.
748
00:33:46,166 --> 00:33:49,709
- Not saying that Wayne
did it or didn't do it.
749
00:33:49,792 --> 00:33:50,875
I don't know.
750
00:33:50,959 --> 00:33:52,500
But had they pinned this
751
00:33:52,583 --> 00:33:54,750
on somebody white,
752
00:33:54,834 --> 00:33:57,709
especially somebody related
to the Klan,
753
00:33:57,792 --> 00:34:00,417
there would have been riots
all over America.
754
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,583
America would have been
upside down.
755
00:34:03,667 --> 00:34:06,917
The fact that they pinned this
on somebody black
756
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,208
shut it down.
757
00:34:10,333 --> 00:34:12,208
- They are killing
little children in the city!
758
00:34:12,291 --> 00:34:15,458
- They did not want
a second Atlanta burning.
759
00:34:19,291 --> 00:34:22,250
Maynard Jackson had gotten
the airport,
760
00:34:22,333 --> 00:34:23,625
and he had gotten
all this business.
761
00:34:23,709 --> 00:34:26,750
They did not want it
to be destroyed.
762
00:34:28,834 --> 00:34:30,083
- All rise.
763
00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:31,583
Court is now in session,
764
00:34:31,667 --> 00:34:33,959
Honorable Judge
Hal Craig presiding.
765
00:34:34,041 --> 00:34:38,417
- The appeals became
a very long process.
766
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:39,834
- Be seated.
767
00:34:41,375 --> 00:34:43,458
- And I remember thinking
768
00:34:43,542 --> 00:34:45,625
enough time had gone by,
769
00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:48,125
the passions had cooled,
770
00:34:48,208 --> 00:34:51,333
the Klan evidence all came out
in open court,
771
00:34:51,417 --> 00:34:53,667
and there was no race war.
772
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:55,625
I thought, "Maybe now
773
00:34:55,709 --> 00:34:58,625
we can have
a sensible reckoning."
774
00:35:02,709 --> 00:35:04,458
- Williams, in fact,
775
00:35:04,542 --> 00:35:05,917
was denied
his constitutional rights.
776
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,834
- It was a tremendous effort
on our part
777
00:35:08,917 --> 00:35:11,792
to show the injustice,
778
00:35:11,875 --> 00:35:13,834
and I think we showed it.
779
00:35:13,917 --> 00:35:16,000
- Well, what has happened today
is this.
780
00:35:16,083 --> 00:35:19,250
A Superior Court judge,
Harold Craig,
781
00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:22,792
has denied Wayne Williams'
plea for a new trial.
782
00:35:25,083 --> 00:35:29,208
- The judge found
for the prosecution.
783
00:35:29,291 --> 00:35:32,041
He upheld the conviction,
784
00:35:32,125 --> 00:35:36,834
said no violation of Brady
had been made
785
00:35:36,917 --> 00:35:39,667
of any significance.
786
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:42,500
- The judge said
there was nothing here
787
00:35:42,583 --> 00:35:45,375
that could've been useful
in any way to the defense
788
00:35:45,458 --> 00:35:48,500
except the sort of red herring
that you could throw out,
789
00:35:48,583 --> 00:35:49,959
saying "the Klan was involved,"
790
00:35:50,041 --> 00:35:52,166
which we still hear about today,
791
00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:53,542
as if they were involved,
792
00:35:53,625 --> 00:35:55,458
and there was no evidence
they were involved.
793
00:35:55,542 --> 00:35:57,500
So the judge
on the habeas corpus said
794
00:35:57,583 --> 00:35:59,500
there's nothing
they could've used.
795
00:35:59,583 --> 00:36:02,333
- Eh...
796
00:36:02,417 --> 00:36:04,792
it's the worst trial
I've ever seen.
797
00:36:04,875 --> 00:36:07,458
It's the worst situation
798
00:36:07,542 --> 00:36:10,750
of unfairness
and the deprivation of fairness
799
00:36:10,834 --> 00:36:13,625
that I've seen in 43 years
of law practice.
800
00:36:14,625 --> 00:36:17,125
You know, it's a damn disgrace.
801
00:36:18,792 --> 00:36:20,750
- When the decision came out,
802
00:36:20,834 --> 00:36:22,875
Bill Kunstler said,
803
00:36:22,959 --> 00:36:25,375
talking about white people,
804
00:36:25,458 --> 00:36:27,667
quote, "They're all
such bullshitters
805
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:30,000
when it comes
to a black man's life."
806
00:36:30,083 --> 00:36:31,375
Close quote.
807
00:36:35,625 --> 00:36:40,083
It was that dashed expectation
808
00:36:40,166 --> 00:36:42,875
that sort of gave rise
to my motto
809
00:36:42,959 --> 00:36:44,709
of the ensuing years,
810
00:36:44,792 --> 00:36:46,875
which is,
"I have no expectations.
811
00:36:46,959 --> 00:36:48,667
I only have hopes."
812
00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:51,375
Because disappointment
is a function of expectations,
813
00:36:51,458 --> 00:36:55,458
and mine, now, pretty low
from the legal system.
814
00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:12,125
- It's this enormous injustice.
815
00:37:13,792 --> 00:37:15,542
For the Georgia Bureau
of Investigation to say
816
00:37:15,625 --> 00:37:17,375
that they found no evidence
817
00:37:17,458 --> 00:37:20,917
of the Sanders brothers
being involved
818
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,208
is hogwash.
819
00:37:28,125 --> 00:37:29,750
There were a number of cases
where they found
820
00:37:29,834 --> 00:37:32,458
Caucasian pubic hairs
and other hairs on the kids.
821
00:37:33,208 --> 00:37:35,125
They should have known
at that point
822
00:37:35,208 --> 00:37:36,875
that they were looking
for a white man.
823
00:37:37,542 --> 00:37:39,834
When I'm going
through the GBI file,
824
00:37:39,917 --> 00:37:41,667
certain elements struck me
825
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:43,250
about Don Sanders.
826
00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:45,834
Again, he's secretary
827
00:37:45,917 --> 00:37:48,000
of the National States'
Rights Party,
828
00:37:48,083 --> 00:37:50,792
who's trying to start
a race war.
829
00:37:50,875 --> 00:37:55,000
Now, this is a 1975 mug shot
of Don Sanders.
830
00:37:55,083 --> 00:37:58,000
You will notice a scar
on his cheek
831
00:37:58,083 --> 00:38:00,125
and a long scar on his neck.
832
00:38:00,208 --> 00:38:02,291
This, of course, brings me back
833
00:38:02,375 --> 00:38:03,458
to the FBI file
834
00:38:03,542 --> 00:38:06,667
along with the Atlanta
Police Department files.
835
00:38:06,750 --> 00:38:09,458
Then you have
these eyewitness accounts.
836
00:38:09,542 --> 00:38:10,458
For example,
837
00:38:10,542 --> 00:38:12,792
in the Christopher Richardson
case,
838
00:38:12,875 --> 00:38:16,000
you've got a eyewitness
saying they saw this white man
839
00:38:16,083 --> 00:38:18,500
kidnap Richardson,
840
00:38:18,583 --> 00:38:20,834
this witness describing the scar
841
00:38:20,917 --> 00:38:22,542
like an arrow on his face.
842
00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:26,834
And then you see Don Sanders.
843
00:38:26,917 --> 00:38:27,875
Right by his mouth,
844
00:38:27,959 --> 00:38:30,125
he has a cut scar
on his left cheek.
845
00:38:31,792 --> 00:38:33,792
A very noticeable scar.
846
00:38:33,875 --> 00:38:35,333
It fits Don Sanders.
847
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,000
And I sort of just compare
the GBI file
848
00:38:41,083 --> 00:38:42,500
with the FBI file
849
00:38:42,583 --> 00:38:45,792
to find out
what else could be a match.
850
00:38:45,875 --> 00:38:49,000
Is there another nexus
between those two files?
851
00:38:49,083 --> 00:38:52,500
This is an example
of an FBI file
852
00:38:52,583 --> 00:38:53,792
on the investigation.
853
00:38:53,875 --> 00:38:55,750
As you can see,
they are heavily redacted,
854
00:38:55,834 --> 00:38:59,083
where names, basic descriptions
are taken out.
855
00:38:59,166 --> 00:39:02,500
As compared to these files,
856
00:39:02,583 --> 00:39:04,750
which is from the Georgia
Bureau of Investigation.
857
00:39:04,834 --> 00:39:06,625
There is no redactions.
858
00:39:06,709 --> 00:39:08,750
And you can then
put the two together,
859
00:39:08,834 --> 00:39:11,250
you know, synthesize the data
that you're looking at.
860
00:39:11,333 --> 00:39:14,041
This is from the FBI file.
861
00:39:14,125 --> 00:39:15,875
In February of 1981,
862
00:39:15,959 --> 00:39:18,041
this white male
chases this ten-year-old kid
863
00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:19,542
home from school.
864
00:39:19,625 --> 00:39:21,208
The boy runs under the bed
and locks the door.
865
00:39:21,291 --> 00:39:22,709
The guy breaks the door down,
866
00:39:22,792 --> 00:39:24,041
tries to the find the kid,
867
00:39:24,125 --> 00:39:26,000
but the kid is hiding
under the bed, so he leaves.
868
00:39:26,083 --> 00:39:29,125
A few hours later,
this guy comes back.
869
00:39:29,208 --> 00:39:31,083
The kid and his mother
see this white male
870
00:39:31,166 --> 00:39:32,417
staring through the window.
871
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,125
He's got blue eyes,
872
00:39:34,208 --> 00:39:36,917
and he has a scar.
873
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,250
This suspect in question
had no facial hair.
874
00:39:40,333 --> 00:39:42,250
On March 1st,
the same ten-year-old
875
00:39:42,333 --> 00:39:43,750
goes into the FBI headquarters,
876
00:39:43,834 --> 00:39:45,709
and he's shown a photo lineup,
877
00:39:45,792 --> 00:39:48,166
picks out--he says
this is definitely the man
878
00:39:48,250 --> 00:39:49,917
who chased him
about a month earlier,
879
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,959
but in this photograph,
880
00:39:52,041 --> 00:39:53,917
he's wearing a full beard.
881
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,917
"When he chased me,
he was clean-shaven."
882
00:39:59,375 --> 00:40:01,125
Now, at the same time,
883
00:40:01,208 --> 00:40:03,625
in February of '81
into early March,
884
00:40:03,709 --> 00:40:05,625
the agent in charge
of the GBI investigation
885
00:40:05,709 --> 00:40:07,542
of the Sanders notices
that he's changed
886
00:40:07,625 --> 00:40:09,417
his appearance completely.
887
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,125
He's cut his hair a little bit,
888
00:40:11,208 --> 00:40:13,709
and he has
a well-manicured beard now,
889
00:40:13,792 --> 00:40:15,041
whereas he had been clean-shaven
890
00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:16,917
a few weeks before.
891
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,750
This matches up with a suspect
892
00:40:19,834 --> 00:40:23,500
here in the FBI document,
whose name is redacted.
893
00:40:23,583 --> 00:40:25,959
Again, he had a full beard
in March,
894
00:40:26,041 --> 00:40:27,792
and so did Don Sanders
895
00:40:27,875 --> 00:40:29,667
in this GBI file.
896
00:40:31,875 --> 00:40:33,625
The dots are connected.
897
00:40:33,709 --> 00:40:36,333
The beard changing
at the same time
898
00:40:36,417 --> 00:40:40,291
and then the scar--
it all adds up.
899
00:40:40,375 --> 00:40:42,834
I think Don Sanders
has to be the man
900
00:40:42,917 --> 00:40:46,000
whose name is blacked out
in the FBI file.
901
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:50,959
I said, "Oh, my God,
they've been trying
902
00:40:51,041 --> 00:40:53,333
"to cover this up for 40 years,
903
00:40:53,417 --> 00:40:54,542
and they slipped up."
904
00:40:56,208 --> 00:40:58,959
- I think the file
shows very clearly
905
00:40:59,041 --> 00:41:01,625
that the Sanders were involved.
906
00:41:01,709 --> 00:41:04,000
I'm speculating, but seems like
907
00:41:04,083 --> 00:41:07,542
the Atlanta police
investigator Aubrey Melton
908
00:41:07,625 --> 00:41:10,959
was the origin
of how all those files
909
00:41:11,041 --> 00:41:12,083
got to me.
910
00:41:12,166 --> 00:41:14,834
He knew they were sweeping it
up under the rug,
911
00:41:14,917 --> 00:41:16,792
and he put his career
on the line
912
00:41:16,875 --> 00:41:18,959
for the truth.
913
00:41:19,041 --> 00:41:21,250
- Aubrey Melton ought
to be commended for that.
914
00:41:22,917 --> 00:41:24,250
You know, that's what
Shakespeare said about murder.
915
00:41:24,333 --> 00:41:26,166
Murder always leaves
a silent witness.
916
00:41:26,250 --> 00:41:28,709
To me, those documents
are a silent witness
917
00:41:28,792 --> 00:41:32,041
showing the Sanders brothers
are involved
918
00:41:32,125 --> 00:41:33,709
in killing those kids.
919
00:41:39,417 --> 00:41:42,000
- Look at the whole record,
920
00:41:42,083 --> 00:41:45,417
and it seems like
there's several strands
921
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:47,375
of killings.
922
00:41:47,458 --> 00:41:51,250
You have the Sanders
and the Ku Klux Klan.
923
00:41:51,333 --> 00:41:53,917
You had pedophilia going on:
924
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,375
Wilcoxen and Tom Terrell,
925
00:41:57,458 --> 00:42:00,542
convicted pedophiles.
926
00:42:00,625 --> 00:42:03,000
You have witnesses
to Jamie Brooks
927
00:42:03,083 --> 00:42:05,667
with Clifford Jones.
928
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:09,625
They didn't follow those leads.
929
00:42:09,709 --> 00:42:11,417
They chose Wayne.
930
00:42:15,125 --> 00:42:16,709
- You know, I always felt
931
00:42:16,792 --> 00:42:18,583
that this is one
of those mysteries
932
00:42:18,667 --> 00:42:19,875
that will remain a mystery
933
00:42:19,959 --> 00:42:22,375
because we blew it
from the beginning.
934
00:42:22,458 --> 00:42:24,333
There were just
all these questions,
935
00:42:24,417 --> 00:42:26,250
and we never got good answers.
936
00:42:29,667 --> 00:42:32,917
- The questions kept coming up.
937
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,458
The case had been so much
about fiber evidence,
938
00:42:36,542 --> 00:42:38,792
and just a few years back,
939
00:42:38,875 --> 00:42:42,041
the Justice Department
sent me a letter.
940
00:42:42,125 --> 00:42:44,417
They said there was a problem
941
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,125
with the whole process
942
00:42:46,208 --> 00:42:48,375
by the FBI crime lab.
943
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:54,417
- FBI lab evidence
in some of this country's
944
00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:56,500
most high-profile criminal cases
945
00:42:56,583 --> 00:42:57,959
and a whole lot more
946
00:42:58,041 --> 00:42:59,625
could be called
into question now,
947
00:42:59,709 --> 00:43:02,583
this months
after an FBI whistleblower
948
00:43:02,667 --> 00:43:06,917
accused the FBI crime lab
of shoddy and sloppy work.
949
00:43:07,917 --> 00:43:12,583
- The FBI laboratory was in
the J. Edgar Hoover Building,
950
00:43:12,667 --> 00:43:14,792
and that building was not built
951
00:43:14,875 --> 00:43:17,834
to hold a laboratory.
952
00:43:17,917 --> 00:43:20,667
Immediately upon walking
into the laboratory in 1986,
953
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:22,625
I saw it was
a filthy environment.
954
00:43:22,709 --> 00:43:25,667
Some of the equipment
was way outdated.
955
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:28,875
A lot of it was rusty--
literally rusty.
956
00:43:28,959 --> 00:43:31,125
I was working
in a trace analysis unit
957
00:43:31,208 --> 00:43:32,834
where we were looking for
958
00:43:32,917 --> 00:43:35,458
tiny, tiny, tiny amounts
of material.
959
00:43:35,542 --> 00:43:38,333
The air system
that was in the laboratory--
960
00:43:38,417 --> 00:43:41,583
the air ducts were lined
with fiberglass,
961
00:43:41,667 --> 00:43:43,333
and fiberglass
started breaking down.
962
00:43:43,417 --> 00:43:46,208
And when the air system
came back on,
963
00:43:46,291 --> 00:43:49,000
all this stuff would rain down
on our equipment,
964
00:43:49,083 --> 00:43:51,125
and we referred to it
as black rain.
965
00:43:51,208 --> 00:43:52,959
I took Scotch tape,
966
00:43:53,041 --> 00:43:54,375
and I put it around on surfaces
967
00:43:54,458 --> 00:43:55,959
and I put it
under the microscope,
968
00:43:56,041 --> 00:43:58,333
and it literally took
my breath away.
969
00:43:58,417 --> 00:44:00,166
I was looking at countless--
970
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:01,834
and I'm not talking
about 100 or 1,000.
971
00:44:01,917 --> 00:44:02,875
I'm talking about--
972
00:44:02,959 --> 00:44:04,625
if there was such a thing
as a zillion,
973
00:44:04,709 --> 00:44:08,542
there were just fibers
everywhere,
974
00:44:08,625 --> 00:44:10,333
and it was coming down
into areas
975
00:44:10,417 --> 00:44:11,959
that we were doing
fiber analysis,
976
00:44:12,041 --> 00:44:13,333
and we had no idea
977
00:44:13,417 --> 00:44:14,834
whether they came
from crime scenes
978
00:44:14,917 --> 00:44:17,500
or whether they came
from the laboratory itself.
979
00:44:17,583 --> 00:44:20,500
We're gonna put human beings
in cages and death chambers
980
00:44:20,583 --> 00:44:23,417
based upon that environment?
No, sir.
981
00:44:25,083 --> 00:44:26,208
I hadn't been there long
982
00:44:26,291 --> 00:44:28,333
when I talked
to my training agent.
983
00:44:28,417 --> 00:44:29,625
I said, "You know,
this is gonna come out
984
00:44:29,709 --> 00:44:33,000
in court sometime,"
and his response was,
985
00:44:33,083 --> 00:44:34,709
"Before you embarrass the FBI,
986
00:44:34,792 --> 00:44:37,709
"you'll commit perjury in court.
987
00:44:37,792 --> 00:44:39,417
We all do it."
988
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:41,709
Then I go to his boss,
989
00:44:41,792 --> 00:44:45,542
and I took that go-to-boss
up over about...
990
00:44:45,625 --> 00:44:49,542
oh, six years, whatever,
991
00:44:49,625 --> 00:44:51,709
from boss to boss
to boss to boss,
992
00:44:51,792 --> 00:44:54,709
and about 1995,
the media got hold of it,
993
00:44:54,792 --> 00:44:57,458
and then it got a life
of its own.
994
00:44:57,542 --> 00:45:00,375
- For years, the FBI lab
has been world-renowned
995
00:45:00,458 --> 00:45:03,208
for coming up with clues
that break cases.
996
00:45:03,291 --> 00:45:06,250
Now a new investigation shows
that for years,
997
00:45:06,333 --> 00:45:08,583
the lab may have been
turning out mistakes.
998
00:45:08,667 --> 00:45:12,083
- Scientifically flawed
testimony,
999
00:45:12,166 --> 00:45:14,458
inaccurate testimony,
1000
00:45:14,542 --> 00:45:15,959
testimony beyond
1001
00:45:16,041 --> 00:45:18,250
the laboratory examiner's
expertise.
1002
00:45:18,333 --> 00:45:21,667
- It just ballooned.
1003
00:45:23,417 --> 00:45:26,000
The FBI and the U.S.
Department of Justice
1004
00:45:26,083 --> 00:45:27,959
reopened thousands of cases.
1005
00:45:30,834 --> 00:45:33,417
In April of 2015,
1006
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:35,625
the FBI announced
1007
00:45:35,709 --> 00:45:39,208
that 26 of 28 hair examiners
1008
00:45:39,291 --> 00:45:41,417
had provided
misleading testimony
1009
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:43,750
95% percent of the time
1010
00:45:43,834 --> 00:45:45,792
over a 30-year period of time
1011
00:45:45,875 --> 00:45:47,041
in court.
1012
00:45:47,125 --> 00:45:49,750
26 of 28.
1013
00:45:49,834 --> 00:45:51,875
- Whitehurst is now
cataloguing the files
1014
00:45:51,959 --> 00:45:53,458
and offering his opinions
1015
00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:55,125
on mistakes made in cases
1016
00:45:55,208 --> 00:45:57,000
ranging from
the World Trade Center bombing
1017
00:45:57,083 --> 00:45:58,583
to Oklahoma City
1018
00:45:58,667 --> 00:46:01,625
and hundreds of local murders
in between.
1019
00:46:01,709 --> 00:46:04,583
- Wayne Williams' case
was worked on
1020
00:46:04,667 --> 00:46:06,000
by the same group of people
1021
00:46:06,083 --> 00:46:08,291
in the same processing areas
1022
00:46:08,375 --> 00:46:10,208
under the same black rain.
1023
00:46:21,375 --> 00:46:24,291
- It wasn't just
the fiber evidence.
1024
00:46:24,375 --> 00:46:26,834
Based on victim type,
1025
00:46:26,917 --> 00:46:28,625
where the bodies were found,
1026
00:46:28,709 --> 00:46:31,750
and the eyewitnesses
that saw Wayne Williams
1027
00:46:31,834 --> 00:46:33,959
with victims...
1028
00:46:34,041 --> 00:46:35,458
I'm 100% certain
1029
00:46:35,542 --> 00:46:37,333
that Wayne Williams
is the killer.
1030
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:43,583
Keep in mind, the pattern
1031
00:46:43,667 --> 00:46:46,333
of juvenile
and young adult homicides
1032
00:46:46,417 --> 00:46:49,875
stopped after the arrest
of Wayne Williams.
1033
00:46:49,959 --> 00:46:52,667
- The killings stopped.
He can't do this anymore.
1034
00:46:52,750 --> 00:46:54,041
He's done.
1035
00:46:54,125 --> 00:46:56,375
- No, I don't think
the killings stopped
1036
00:46:56,458 --> 00:46:58,291
because of Wayne Williams
being arrested.
1037
00:46:58,375 --> 00:47:00,500
I think what happened is that
1038
00:47:00,583 --> 00:47:02,625
the most probable suspects
went to jail
1039
00:47:02,709 --> 00:47:03,834
around the same time
1040
00:47:03,917 --> 00:47:06,166
as Wayne's arrest.
1041
00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:08,083
When the Sanders brothers
were taken into custody,
1042
00:47:08,166 --> 00:47:09,458
they were told point-blank,
1043
00:47:09,542 --> 00:47:11,709
"We have information
that you are connected
1044
00:47:11,792 --> 00:47:14,375
to some of the murders."
1045
00:47:14,458 --> 00:47:16,000
Well, of course then,
they're on notice,
1046
00:47:16,083 --> 00:47:17,333
so they have to stop.
1047
00:47:17,417 --> 00:47:19,667
Now, at the same time,
1048
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:22,875
the prime
Clifford Jones suspect,
1049
00:47:22,959 --> 00:47:24,166
Tom Terrell,
1050
00:47:24,250 --> 00:47:26,166
David Wilcoxen,
1051
00:47:26,250 --> 00:47:28,542
they were all arrested
and thrown in jail,
1052
00:47:28,625 --> 00:47:30,250
and that's why
the killings stopped.
1053
00:47:30,333 --> 00:47:33,375
- No, these
were outlandish rumors
1054
00:47:33,458 --> 00:47:35,375
with no substance
to back them up.
1055
00:47:35,458 --> 00:47:38,750
There was nobody identified
as a viable suspect
1056
00:47:38,834 --> 00:47:40,834
other than Wayne Williams.
1057
00:47:42,458 --> 00:47:45,542
The evidence in this case
is airtight in my opinion,
1058
00:47:45,625 --> 00:47:48,083
and I think, if somebody
looks at it objectively,
1059
00:47:48,166 --> 00:47:49,875
it should prove it to them
1060
00:47:49,959 --> 00:47:52,208
that Wayne Williams is guilty.
1061
00:47:52,291 --> 00:47:54,709
But some of the parents
are still not satisfied
1062
00:47:54,792 --> 00:47:56,291
with the investigation.
1063
00:48:02,333 --> 00:48:05,750
- This is one
of the favorite pictures.
1064
00:48:05,834 --> 00:48:08,500
We had just left church
that Easter.
1065
00:48:11,709 --> 00:48:14,250
Patrick would be married
with kids
1066
00:48:14,333 --> 00:48:15,750
and probably went on
to the service
1067
00:48:15,834 --> 00:48:17,750
like his rest of his brothers.
1068
00:48:19,917 --> 00:48:22,291
Just broke my heart.
1069
00:48:24,667 --> 00:48:26,917
You know, it's--probably
was a time that I said
1070
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,083
that, you know, in my heart,
I really do believe
1071
00:48:29,166 --> 00:48:30,583
that Wayne Williams
killed Patrick Balt--
1072
00:48:30,667 --> 00:48:33,667
I remember saying that.
1073
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:35,250
And then there's a time,
you know,
1074
00:48:35,333 --> 00:48:36,875
I don't believe Wayne Williams
killed nobody.
1075
00:48:36,959 --> 00:48:38,917
And then it was a time,
yeah, maybe he did kill
1076
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,291
Nathaniel Cater
and Jimmy Ray Payne,
1077
00:48:42,375 --> 00:48:45,291
because I have been put
in a situation
1078
00:48:45,375 --> 00:48:49,792
that, you know,
you don't know what to believe,
1079
00:48:49,875 --> 00:48:51,625
so that means
that you just believe
1080
00:48:51,709 --> 00:48:53,625
every damn thing.
1081
00:48:53,709 --> 00:48:55,667
You know, so to hell with that.
1082
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:57,250
I don't know.
1083
00:48:57,333 --> 00:48:59,458
I wasn't there.
1084
00:49:03,208 --> 00:49:06,583
- If you look
at Wayne Williams' case
1085
00:49:06,667 --> 00:49:09,625
and say, "I don't know
what happened,"
1086
00:49:09,709 --> 00:49:12,291
"I don't know"
1087
00:49:12,375 --> 00:49:16,625
connects to "not guilty"
in our system of law.
1088
00:49:16,709 --> 00:49:18,500
That does not mean
he's an innocent man.
1089
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:33,041
- Wayne has grown up in jail.
1090
00:49:35,917 --> 00:49:38,667
If Wayne got out of jail,
where would he go?
1091
00:49:38,750 --> 00:49:41,834
Um, I don't--his mother's dead.
His father's dead.
1092
00:49:41,917 --> 00:49:44,834
I don't know what kind of life
he would have.
1093
00:49:44,917 --> 00:49:49,000
But I think he's entitled
to find out.
1094
00:49:51,917 --> 00:49:56,500
- His parents were supportive
of him to the end.
1095
00:49:56,583 --> 00:50:01,000
I just hate that they had to die
1096
00:50:01,083 --> 00:50:04,583
not knowing what had become
of their son.
1097
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,375
- I don't think Atlanta
wants him released.
1098
00:50:09,458 --> 00:50:12,834
I don't think they want
the case regurgitated,
1099
00:50:12,917 --> 00:50:14,250
brought back up again,
1100
00:50:14,333 --> 00:50:16,125
and I think Wayne is--
1101
00:50:16,208 --> 00:50:18,041
is gonna be in prison
for the rest of his life.
1102
00:50:22,291 --> 00:50:23,291
- Growing up in America,
1103
00:50:23,375 --> 00:50:24,917
I thought it was
the land of opportunity.
1104
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,917
I thought that my people,
black people,
1105
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,542
had made our strides
during the Civil Rights era.
1106
00:50:30,625 --> 00:50:32,542
We had made progress.
1107
00:50:32,625 --> 00:50:34,917
But after years
of this nightmare,
1108
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,709
I have found out that
1109
00:50:36,792 --> 00:50:38,875
there is no justice
1110
00:50:38,959 --> 00:50:40,834
in the criminal justice system
1111
00:50:40,917 --> 00:50:42,875
in the United States of America.
1112
00:50:42,959 --> 00:50:46,417
Nobody's concerned
about whether you're innocent
1113
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:48,125
or whether you're guilty.
1114
00:50:52,667 --> 00:50:54,750
- He's truly an evil person
1115
00:50:54,834 --> 00:50:57,417
because he presents himself now
as being so innocent
1116
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:59,250
and he's victimizing
the families again.
1117
00:50:59,333 --> 00:51:01,875
He killed their kids.
Now he's using them again
1118
00:51:01,959 --> 00:51:03,208
to put himself out there
and say,
1119
00:51:03,291 --> 00:51:04,417
"Hey, I'm innocent.
I didn't do it.
1120
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:07,792
It's not me."
And, you know, it's just...
1121
00:51:07,875 --> 00:51:10,375
They were throwaways.
1122
00:51:10,458 --> 00:51:12,750
You know, their families
didn't want them
1123
00:51:12,834 --> 00:51:14,750
or they're out on their own.
1124
00:51:14,834 --> 00:51:15,959
It was sad, you know.
1125
00:51:16,041 --> 00:51:18,875
They're just kids,
but they didn't have a chance,
1126
00:51:18,959 --> 00:51:20,792
most of them, and they fell prey
1127
00:51:20,875 --> 00:51:24,083
to this lunatic.
1128
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:31,125
- I don't want
this investigation
1129
00:51:31,208 --> 00:51:32,458
to become
1130
00:51:32,542 --> 00:51:34,875
a "Free Wayne Williams"
campaign.
1131
00:51:34,959 --> 00:51:36,625
To the extent
that there's evidence
1132
00:51:36,709 --> 00:51:40,083
that shows that it was not him,
1133
00:51:40,166 --> 00:51:43,667
I think that justice
will take its course.
1134
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:47,250
But I really want this
to be about the children
1135
00:51:47,333 --> 00:51:51,667
and the unanswered questions
for many of the families.
1136
00:51:54,125 --> 00:51:56,667
- I'm hopeful we find
some evidence.
1137
00:51:56,750 --> 00:51:58,500
You know, it's a long shot.
1138
00:51:58,583 --> 00:52:00,500
This is really about being able
1139
00:52:00,583 --> 00:52:03,458
to look at the families,
the moms, the dads,
1140
00:52:03,542 --> 00:52:06,625
and say, "We have done
everything possible."
1141
00:52:06,709 --> 00:52:09,667
And so we are just
very methodically
1142
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:11,834
pulling in
the boxes of evidence,
1143
00:52:11,917 --> 00:52:14,375
looking at the cases
chronologically.
1144
00:52:14,458 --> 00:52:17,208
It's gonna take time.
1145
00:52:17,291 --> 00:52:19,959
- 2020, it'll be 40 years.
1146
00:52:20,041 --> 00:52:23,458
They should've did that
40 years ago,
1147
00:52:23,542 --> 00:52:26,000
not 40 years...
1148
00:52:26,083 --> 00:52:28,625
They should've been did it.
1149
00:52:28,709 --> 00:52:30,500
They should've been
done something.
1150
00:52:30,583 --> 00:52:33,667
- Come on.
29 to 30 kids,
1151
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:35,375
and you mean to tell me
1152
00:52:35,458 --> 00:52:37,834
nobody had an answer
for 30 kids?
1153
00:52:40,959 --> 00:52:42,375
We're not worth it,
1154
00:52:42,458 --> 00:52:45,333
is what you're telling me.
1155
00:52:45,417 --> 00:52:47,667
I want my brother, and
I want all the other children,
1156
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:49,125
to be worth something
1157
00:52:49,208 --> 00:52:51,166
so they can sleep.
1158
00:52:54,125 --> 00:52:55,208
- It's 40 years ago.
1159
00:52:55,291 --> 00:52:57,208
How many people have
handled this over the years?
1160
00:52:57,291 --> 00:52:59,417
I don't think
they're gonna find anything.
1161
00:53:02,250 --> 00:53:04,041
- You think that this
is really trying
1162
00:53:04,125 --> 00:53:05,417
to get to the bottom
of all this?
1163
00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:07,250
- N...
1164
00:53:09,792 --> 00:53:12,291
No.
1165
00:53:14,625 --> 00:53:19,083
This reinvestigation
is about cleaning up,
1166
00:53:19,166 --> 00:53:21,667
just trying to clean up
1167
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:24,417
the legacy of Atlanta.
1168
00:53:27,792 --> 00:53:29,291
- The man considered
the main suspect
1169
00:53:29,375 --> 00:53:30,709
in the Atlanta child murders
1170
00:53:30,792 --> 00:53:31,875
will stay in prison.
1171
00:53:31,959 --> 00:53:34,083
The state denied
Wayne Williams' appeal
1172
00:53:34,166 --> 00:53:35,250
for parole.
1173
00:53:35,333 --> 00:53:39,000
- His next opportunity
will be in 2027.
1174
00:53:40,667 --> 00:53:43,417
- Atlanta's a city of images.
1175
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:45,458
It's a PR place.
1176
00:53:45,542 --> 00:53:47,750
It's what looks good
and what we can project
1177
00:53:47,834 --> 00:53:50,250
to the world--
"World's busiest airport."
1178
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,917
- When this took place,
1179
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,417
Atlanta was on the rise.
1180
00:53:57,500 --> 00:54:02,083
They felt like Atlanta
was being attacked
1181
00:54:02,166 --> 00:54:04,625
by us defending Wayne Williams.
1182
00:54:06,959 --> 00:54:09,250
Everything we brought out,
1183
00:54:09,333 --> 00:54:11,458
people thought about it
1184
00:54:11,542 --> 00:54:13,792
as a reflection on Atlanta.
1185
00:54:23,709 --> 00:54:26,625
- It's a very different
Atlanta now
1186
00:54:26,709 --> 00:54:28,000
because there was a plan
1187
00:54:28,083 --> 00:54:31,291
of what Atlanta was gonna be.
1188
00:54:37,208 --> 00:54:39,750
- It's kind of crass.
1189
00:54:39,834 --> 00:54:43,458
We want to have
the clout and the class,
1190
00:54:43,542 --> 00:54:45,291
but none
of the public housing projects
1191
00:54:45,375 --> 00:54:46,834
remain at all.
1192
00:54:48,125 --> 00:54:50,959
They've all been torn down,
1193
00:54:51,041 --> 00:54:52,959
black folks pushed out.
1194
00:54:54,834 --> 00:54:57,000
And few, if any,
of the people who lived there
1195
00:54:57,083 --> 00:54:58,875
found homes there again.
1196
00:55:18,208 --> 00:55:21,333
- After Clifford passed away,
1197
00:55:21,417 --> 00:55:22,792
we moved across town,
1198
00:55:22,875 --> 00:55:25,041
and then we moved
back to Chattanooga.
1199
00:55:26,250 --> 00:55:28,542
I would never move
to Atlanta again.
1200
00:55:31,250 --> 00:55:33,500
I'm mad at Atlanta.
1201
00:55:33,583 --> 00:55:37,166
I'm pissed off at Atlanta,
for real.
1202
00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:39,208
I just feel like they did
our family wrong.
1203
00:55:41,583 --> 00:55:44,542
When Clifford passed away,
1204
00:55:44,625 --> 00:55:46,417
I almost tried to, like,
block it out
1205
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,083
like it was a bad dream.
1206
00:55:50,834 --> 00:55:53,750
I guess I went
into a deep depression.
1207
00:55:57,125 --> 00:55:59,917
Clifford was buried
at the National Cemetery
1208
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,041
in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
1209
00:56:03,125 --> 00:56:04,417
I've never been back over there
1210
00:56:04,500 --> 00:56:06,500
since we buried him.
1211
00:56:07,458 --> 00:56:09,583
I got past it, and...
1212
00:56:19,166 --> 00:56:21,375
Just holding onto this, it was
1213
00:56:21,458 --> 00:56:23,625
mentally tearing me down.
1214
00:56:27,625 --> 00:56:29,750
I finally felt like it was time
1215
00:56:29,834 --> 00:56:31,709
to come and see him.
1216
00:56:48,959 --> 00:56:51,750
I just want the world to know
we love Clifford.
1217
00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:09,667
- Me, personally, myself,
1218
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:14,083
nothing would give me
a peace of mind or closure.
1219
00:57:14,166 --> 00:57:17,917
Just want to know who and why.
1220
00:57:26,875 --> 00:57:29,750
- I think that the notion
of closure
1221
00:57:29,834 --> 00:57:33,917
is something that people
who are not directly involved
1222
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:35,875
make up.
1223
00:57:37,583 --> 00:57:39,500
I don't know
what constitutes closure
1224
00:57:39,583 --> 00:57:41,250
for a murdered child.
1225
00:57:49,125 --> 00:57:51,291
- People always talking
about closure
1226
00:57:51,375 --> 00:57:53,875
and... mm-mm.
1227
00:57:53,959 --> 00:57:58,041
I can't get with this thing
about closure.
1228
00:57:58,125 --> 00:58:00,959
I don't think I'll ever have
peace about that,
1229
00:58:01,041 --> 00:58:02,709
about my son.
1230
00:58:08,917 --> 00:58:11,875
- It's been an emotional
kind of afternoon
1231
00:58:11,959 --> 00:58:13,834
because a lot of families
are seeing each other
1232
00:58:13,917 --> 00:58:17,875
for the first time
in almost 40 years.
1233
00:58:23,417 --> 00:58:25,917
- Good afternoon.
- Good afternoon.
1234
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,542
- My name
is Catherine Leach Bell.
1235
00:58:28,625 --> 00:58:30,625
I'm the mother of Curtis Walker.
1236
00:58:31,792 --> 00:58:34,959
Curtis was very important.
1237
00:58:35,041 --> 00:58:39,041
He was a black America child.
1238
00:58:39,125 --> 00:58:41,875
And someone took him from me.
1239
00:58:41,959 --> 00:58:45,667
Now, that's a pain that no one
will ever forget.
1240
00:58:47,792 --> 00:58:49,375
'Cause seemed like nobody cared
1241
00:58:49,458 --> 00:58:52,417
nothing about what I was
going through, not nobody.
1242
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,542
But I didn't give up.
1243
00:58:56,625 --> 00:58:58,917
I kept going.
1244
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:03,083
- It hurts.
1245
00:59:03,166 --> 00:59:05,166
You're losing a child
and being killed like that,
1246
00:59:05,250 --> 00:59:07,709
and you don't know why
he being killed like that.
1247
00:59:07,792 --> 00:59:08,959
- It hurts.
1248
00:59:09,041 --> 00:59:10,417
- You don't know why
would anybody
1249
00:59:10,500 --> 00:59:12,041
do something to a child
like that.
1250
00:59:12,125 --> 00:59:14,959
That's a sick maniac.
- Come on now, come on.
1251
00:59:15,041 --> 00:59:16,375
- That's right.
- We went through it
1252
00:59:16,458 --> 00:59:18,917
40 long years, but guess what.
1253
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,542
We can go through it
40 more long years.
1254
00:59:20,625 --> 00:59:21,750
- That's right.
1255
00:59:21,834 --> 00:59:23,083
- Until the end.
1256
00:59:23,166 --> 00:59:24,667
- Till the end.
- Till the end.
1257
00:59:24,750 --> 00:59:26,041
Until he be caught.
1258
00:59:26,125 --> 00:59:27,583
- Say it!
1259
00:59:27,667 --> 00:59:28,583
- We can't give up.
1260
00:59:28,667 --> 00:59:30,959
When we die,
we can't do nothing about it.
1261
00:59:31,041 --> 00:59:33,542
But long as breath
is in our body,
1262
00:59:33,625 --> 00:59:36,083
we got our rights to find out
who did this.
92255
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