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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:05,530 [keyboard keys clacking] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:30,430 [man] Sometimes, what the internet does 5 00:00:30,430 --> 00:00:31,500 is it makes you think 6 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:33,730 you can understand somebody 7 00:00:33,730 --> 00:00:36,730 or you know what somebody's intentions were. 8 00:00:36,730 --> 00:00:39,500 But, you don't. 9 00:00:54,570 --> 00:00:56,230 [911 operator] Collier County, 911. 10 00:00:56,230 --> 00:00:58,330 What is the address of your emergency? 11 00:00:58,330 --> 00:01:02,130 [man] Um, I'm at Big Cypress National Preserve. 12 00:01:02,130 --> 00:01:05,000 Uh, we just found a dead body. 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,700 [911 operator] Are you on the trail? 14 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:07,970 [man] Yeah. I'm on the trail 15 00:01:07,970 --> 00:01:09,330 and then the dead body 16 00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:11,470 is at the Camp Nobles site. 17 00:01:11,470 --> 00:01:13,570 It's in a tent, like, I just... Like, 18 00:01:13,570 --> 00:01:15,570 and it's, kind of, curled up, 19 00:01:15,570 --> 00:01:17,800 like it's trying to get out. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,200 [911 operator] And did you check on it 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,100 to see if it was breathing or anything? 22 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:22,430 [man] Yeah. I mean, I didn't touch it, 23 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:23,470 I looked at it. 24 00:01:23,470 --> 00:01:24,930 We yelled, "Hello?" 25 00:01:24,930 --> 00:01:27,000 He looked really skinny 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,070 and really, um... 27 00:01:29,070 --> 00:01:31,800 Like, I don't know, it's like a weird color. 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,430 [911 operator] All right. Thank you. 29 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:42,230 [David H] This is Southwest Florida, 30 00:01:42,230 --> 00:01:44,030 well-known for the wildness, 31 00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:45,730 the swamplands. 32 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:51,730 July is a very wet, extremely hot month. 33 00:01:52,670 --> 00:01:54,230 Not the time of year 34 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:57,000 you typically have people camping. 35 00:01:58,470 --> 00:02:01,930 It is out in the middle of The Everglades. 36 00:02:04,830 --> 00:02:07,070 We responded out to the area. 37 00:02:09,430 --> 00:02:11,000 We approached the tent. 38 00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:19,430 When we discovered the scene, 39 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:21,370 we observed that he did appear 40 00:02:21,370 --> 00:02:24,700 to be very thin, 41 00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:27,670 thin to the point that it's unnatural. 42 00:02:28,970 --> 00:02:31,430 But we found that he did have food 43 00:02:32,470 --> 00:02:35,000 and we found a considerable amount of cash. 44 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,870 So it was not like this person was indigent 45 00:02:38,870 --> 00:02:41,400 or had no resources available. 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,630 [lizard croaking] 47 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:47,200 [David H] There were notebooks 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,800 that had several pages 49 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,930 of what appeared to be codes. 50 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:54,470 You don't know if it's the ramblings of a madman 51 00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:57,130 or if it's the writings of a genius. 52 00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:04,700 We quickly found that there was nothing there 53 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:06,800 with a name on it. 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,800 No wallet, no credit cards, 55 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,570 no photo ID. 56 00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:14,070 There was no cell phone, no tablet. 57 00:03:16,130 --> 00:03:18,830 We've got a guy out in a campground, 58 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:20,830 we don't really know who he is, 59 00:03:20,830 --> 00:03:25,230 but, you know, you assume that it's a local person. 60 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:27,500 How difficult is this gonna be? 61 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:29,430 Two or three days, we'll have this guy ID'd, 62 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:31,430 we'll get him back home where he belongs. 63 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:35,030 And that certainly turned out not to be the case. 64 00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:43,800 [man] The Puritan Cleaners team has earned 65 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,600 over 4,000 five-star reviews. 66 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,430 They are the reason we can say, 67 00:03:48,430 --> 00:03:50,130 "At Puritan, it's right, 68 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:52,870 it's ready, or it's free." 69 00:03:52,870 --> 00:03:55,670 Need more time getting laundry [indistinct] 70 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:58,430 at Puritan Cleaners [indistinct] 71 00:03:58,430 --> 00:04:00,800 [car engine starts] 72 00:04:08,930 --> 00:04:10,100 [voice prompt] At the next light, 73 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:11,870 turn right. 74 00:04:11,870 --> 00:04:13,970 [Christie] If it gets too hot or too cold, 75 00:04:13,970 --> 00:04:15,100 say something. 76 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:18,270 Because there's no happy medium in here. 77 00:04:20,130 --> 00:04:24,730 This job is not for the faint of heart. 78 00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:28,530 I've actually been in three wrecks. 79 00:04:28,530 --> 00:04:30,400 I've been bitten by a dog. 80 00:04:32,830 --> 00:04:36,130 Basically, by day, I'm a mild-mannered delivery person 81 00:04:36,130 --> 00:04:38,270 who leaves clothes at your door. 82 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:43,370 And at night, I'm on a laptop or on my iPhone... 83 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:44,370 [car door closes] 84 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:47,170 [Christie] ... trying to get 85 00:04:47,170 --> 00:04:49,900 unidentified people identified. 86 00:04:51,830 --> 00:04:54,770 In this country, there are anywhere 87 00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:59,330 from 30,000 to 80,000 unidentified people, 88 00:04:59,330 --> 00:05:02,900 most don't have anybody fighting for them. 89 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:04,600 They're forgotten about. 90 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,270 Well, they have me. 91 00:05:08,630 --> 00:05:10,830 This is my first case. 92 00:05:10,830 --> 00:05:14,000 I went onto Facebook and I remember seeing 93 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,900 that there's a group about him, and I was like, 94 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:20,200 "Oh, cool." So I hit "add," 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,670 and I got in. 96 00:05:22,770 --> 00:05:24,800 I just felt like maybe I could help. 97 00:05:25,930 --> 00:05:29,300 I never thought it would get this far. 98 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,300 [David H] The medical examiner's office 99 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:43,970 was unable to determine 100 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:45,630 the cause of his death. 101 00:05:49,430 --> 00:05:53,200 He was at approximately 83 pounds total body weight. 102 00:05:55,930 --> 00:05:58,700 That is beyond extremely thin. 103 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:01,700 He was into the malnourished territory. 104 00:06:03,930 --> 00:06:06,830 There was no trauma, no injuries, 105 00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:08,900 no noted diseases, 106 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,630 no illicit drugs in his system. 107 00:06:11,630 --> 00:06:15,230 The only thing that it did come back to was Tylenol. 108 00:06:15,230 --> 00:06:18,870 That can stay in your system from 24 to 72 hours. 109 00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:21,900 So we thought that within the last day or two 110 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:24,830 of his passing, he was still fully functioning. 111 00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:29,770 There's a truck stop that was probably within 112 00:06:29,770 --> 00:06:32,730 five or seven miles from where he was located. 113 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:34,970 He could have walked out to I-75 114 00:06:34,970 --> 00:06:36,470 and he could have flagged somebody down 115 00:06:36,470 --> 00:06:38,570 if he needed assistance that badly. 116 00:06:43,030 --> 00:06:45,600 [David H] We ran fingerprints, 117 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,300 DNA through local, national, 118 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:50,270 and global databases. 119 00:06:50,270 --> 00:06:53,230 No DNA, no fingerprints, no dental records. 120 00:06:54,430 --> 00:06:56,500 At this point, it gets passed over 121 00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:58,670 to our criminal researchers. 122 00:06:58,670 --> 00:07:00,300 Hi. 123 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:01,700 Uh, my name is Kristin Adams. 124 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:03,570 I'm the... 125 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:05,370 Do you want me to say Criminal Research Investigator 126 00:07:05,370 --> 00:07:06,800 or Investigative Specialist, which one? 127 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,600 I'll restart, but which one do you want me to use? 128 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:14,130 When we have an unidentified person, 129 00:07:14,130 --> 00:07:17,070 we do check our missing persons reports first. 130 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,070 When the traditional ways of identification 131 00:07:22,070 --> 00:07:24,700 were exhausted, a flyer was completed 132 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:28,100 in an effort to obtain some assistance from the community. 133 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:32,100 We put characteristics, height, weight. 134 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,000 He did have a faint scar on his abdomen 135 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,700 but no tattoos. 136 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:41,330 [David H] We tried to edit the photographs 137 00:07:41,330 --> 00:07:42,870 that we had from the scene 138 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:45,530 to have something that wasn't graphic 139 00:07:45,530 --> 00:07:47,170 to the point that would be disturbing. 140 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,200 Well, it, kind of, reminded me 141 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,900 of the caveman in the GEICO ad, basically, 142 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:58,870 with his mouth gaping wide open. 143 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:00,300 It's not a glamor shot. 144 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:03,430 We had to work with what we had 145 00:08:03,430 --> 00:08:05,570 so that if somebody had saw him, 146 00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:07,430 even with a full head of hair 147 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:09,570 looking like Grizzly Adams, 148 00:08:09,570 --> 00:08:11,700 they would recognize him. 149 00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:15,730 [Kristin] We released it to the local media, 150 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:18,170 and then we also released it on our social media. 151 00:08:21,970 --> 00:08:24,200 [David H] We reached out to the hiking community. 152 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,400 They posted it on their websites. 153 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,500 We had a lot of people start to reach out to us. 154 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:31,170 [monitor beeps] 155 00:08:32,570 --> 00:08:35,230 That's when we found someone that recognized him. 156 00:08:36,270 --> 00:08:37,330 -[producer] Hi. -Hi. 157 00:08:37,330 --> 00:08:38,670 [laughs] 158 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,370 I guess I never really paid much attention 159 00:08:41,370 --> 00:08:44,730 to composites before, but, um, August 2nd, 160 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:47,900 I was at work, and I decided to take a quick break 161 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:50,230 and sat down and opened up Facebook. 162 00:08:50,230 --> 00:08:53,670 And as soon as I saw the composite, 163 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:57,500 I knew who it was immediately. 164 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:02,900 I met him six months prior to him being found 165 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:04,030 deceased on the trail. 166 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:08,970 At the time, I was a trail angel. 167 00:09:08,970 --> 00:09:12,800 A trail angel is just someone who provides an unexpected act 168 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,870 of kindness to a hiker on the trail, 169 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:19,870 whether it be water or a snack or, um, 170 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:22,200 just something unexpected. 171 00:09:26,530 --> 00:09:29,630 That morning, I put together a little baggie of things, 172 00:09:29,630 --> 00:09:32,200 crackers, Kool-Aid mixes. 173 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:35,370 And I found a hiker. 174 00:09:38,030 --> 00:09:40,100 He was walking towards me. 175 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,930 It looked like an older man. 176 00:09:43,930 --> 00:09:46,770 His eyes gave away that he wasn't that old. 177 00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:49,330 He had younger-looking eyes, very beautiful eyes. 178 00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:51,570 Oh, yeah, he was cute. [laughs] 179 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:56,030 I introduced myself to him as Kelly, 180 00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:58,070 and he said, "Well, I'm Mostly Harmless." 181 00:10:01,430 --> 00:10:03,200 I just recognized that it's a trail name, 182 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,900 didn't think twice about it 183 00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:07,330 because every hiker has a trail name. 184 00:10:07,330 --> 00:10:10,230 It's usually given to them by another hiker 185 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,130 based on something that happens on the trail 186 00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:13,530 or something they did on trail. 187 00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:15,570 A name comes up and it sticks. 188 00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:19,230 I heard that he got his trail name 189 00:10:19,230 --> 00:10:22,070 when he was walking into a campsite one evening, 190 00:10:22,070 --> 00:10:24,830 and there were people sitting around the campfire, 191 00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:27,230 and they invited him to join them 192 00:10:27,230 --> 00:10:28,830 as long as he didn't bite. 193 00:10:28,830 --> 00:10:31,300 And he told them that he was mostly harmless. 194 00:10:33,830 --> 00:10:37,470 I asked him if he was using the Florida trail app 195 00:10:37,470 --> 00:10:39,900 and he said, "Well, I'm not carrying a phone." 196 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:42,370 And I said, "What do you mean you're not carrying a phone?" 197 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:44,970 He's like, "I just wanted to disconnect. 198 00:10:44,970 --> 00:10:47,300 You know, sometimes people wanna do that." 199 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:49,900 Uh, I thought it was kinda reckless and dangerous. 200 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,600 [David H] People who wanna get off the grid 201 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,230 typically still have a cell phone. 202 00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:56,530 The fact that he had no means 203 00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:59,270 whatsoever to gain assistance 204 00:10:59,270 --> 00:11:03,500 was something that we thought was intentional and unusual. 205 00:11:08,070 --> 00:11:11,100 I had a bunch of stickers to promote Florida Trail, 206 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:12,230 and I said, "If you don't mind, 207 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:13,870 can I take a picture of you with the sticker?" 208 00:11:13,870 --> 00:11:16,270 And he's like, "Not at all," so he held it up, smiled, 209 00:11:16,270 --> 00:11:18,470 and I clicked his picture. 210 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,100 [David H] We had, uh, a sense of hope. 211 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:33,270 "Oh. Somebody knows this guy." 212 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,170 [Kelly] I immediately went to the Florida Trail group, 213 00:11:40,170 --> 00:11:42,030 posted my pictures, 214 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,570 and start tagging names in the comments. 215 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:46,970 It just... It just blew up. 216 00:11:50,070 --> 00:11:52,700 The trail community is like family. 217 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:55,700 So there was shock that this was our hiker 218 00:11:55,700 --> 00:11:57,370 and he was deceased. 219 00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:01,400 Other trail angels were tagging people 220 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,100 that I hadn't tagged. It moved fast. 221 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:05,500 You know, people were throwing out ideas, 222 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:06,930 "Check here, check there," 223 00:12:06,930 --> 00:12:07,930 then it started branching out 224 00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:09,300 to the Appalachian Trail groups. 225 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:11,200 The hikers, kind of, flooded in 226 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,500 and they gave their pictures and what they knew. 227 00:12:16,030 --> 00:12:18,530 [Kelly] There was a GoPro video that someone had shot. 228 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,270 There had to have been 25, at least, people 229 00:12:25,270 --> 00:12:27,100 that definitely crossed his path. 230 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:28,370 He was seen in Georgia, 231 00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:29,570 he was seen in North Carolina. 232 00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:31,930 [Brandon] I was shocked 233 00:12:31,930 --> 00:12:33,600 because I thought, "Holy shit. 234 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,970 Like, look at this, this is Denim, 235 00:12:34,970 --> 00:12:36,330 this is the guy I camped with." 236 00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:39,630 He introduced himself to me as Denim, 237 00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:41,270 and I never heard Mostly Harmless 238 00:12:41,270 --> 00:12:43,530 until after everything came out. 239 00:12:44,570 --> 00:12:46,470 [MJ] He had a good feel about him. 240 00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:48,170 He was quiet, though. 241 00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:50,800 [Mike] I remember thinking he's friendly, 242 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,570 easygoing. 243 00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:55,430 It came out that he had worked in IT 244 00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:57,570 and that he was really great with computers. 245 00:12:57,570 --> 00:13:00,070 [Mike] His backpack, it was huge. 246 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:02,230 That was, kind of, unusual. 247 00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:05,870 There was small bits 248 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:08,070 of personal information that he would reveal. 249 00:13:08,070 --> 00:13:10,800 [Brandon] We connected every Doctor Who in sci-fi. 250 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,530 They came up that he probably was from Brooklyn. 251 00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:16,330 Somebody would say Brooklyn, somebody would say The Bronx. 252 00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:18,070 He said that he was from Louisiana. 253 00:13:18,070 --> 00:13:20,100 I would get Sarasota and Saratoga. 254 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,330 Each contact, each bit of information that we had 255 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:29,230 was very repetitious. 256 00:13:29,230 --> 00:13:31,170 "Yeah, I met him. Yeah, here's a picture. 257 00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:34,400 Yeah." But no, I didn't get a name. 258 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,630 "What's his name?" And I'm like, "I don't know." 259 00:13:37,630 --> 00:13:39,230 I think we figured at some point, 260 00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:40,730 someone's going to say, 261 00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:42,670 "Oh, sure, that's so and so." 262 00:13:42,670 --> 00:13:44,570 "No, we didn't get a name. No, we didn't get a name. 263 00:13:44,570 --> 00:13:45,670 No, we didn't get a name." 264 00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:48,170 He never seemed to give that information. 265 00:13:48,170 --> 00:13:50,700 [Kelly] I was, like, "Hopefully, somebody has something 266 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:52,330 so we can identify this guy." 267 00:13:52,330 --> 00:13:54,500 "Oh, my gosh. This is so easy. What's his name? 268 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:55,800 Somebody had to get his name." 269 00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:11,900 [David H] The hiking community helped us 270 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:15,470 develop a history from where he was first seen 271 00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:16,970 to where he wound up. 272 00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:22,630 We began to realize that he had been traveling 273 00:14:22,630 --> 00:14:24,770 the Appalachian Trail 274 00:14:24,770 --> 00:14:28,070 from the north area towards Florida. 275 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:31,500 This wasn't just a Florida hiker. 276 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,300 He traveled over thousands of miles. 277 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:35,870 [David H] This is pretty unusual. 278 00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:38,930 We started researching the trail, 279 00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:40,700 the AT, as they call it. 280 00:14:41,630 --> 00:14:44,430 I believe over 3,000 attempt 281 00:14:44,430 --> 00:14:46,400 the Appalachian Trail alone itself every year. 282 00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:50,100 [Kristin] There are portions of it that are heavily traveled, 283 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:53,000 and then there are portions where it's very desolate. 284 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,870 You have to have a certain level of fitness, 285 00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:57,070 a certain level of determination 286 00:14:57,070 --> 00:14:59,200 that you wanna do this, that you're gonna reach this goal 287 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,730 regardless of what is standing in your way. 288 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:05,300 [David H] It's a very close-knit community. 289 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:09,370 [MJ] The trail is full of people who have made time 290 00:15:09,370 --> 00:15:12,070 in their lives to be introspective. 291 00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:14,270 [Kelly] People do come to the trail 292 00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:15,800 as a way to escape. 293 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,530 A lot of hikers come from all over 294 00:15:17,530 --> 00:15:19,530 and they end up in what they call bubbles, 295 00:15:19,530 --> 00:15:21,330 and they end up hiking together 296 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:23,970 for short term or long term. 297 00:15:23,970 --> 00:15:26,830 [Christie] He crossed paths with a lot of people. 298 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:30,330 We figured out who he was as a person 299 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:34,300 could give ideas of how he got to where he was 300 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:35,800 and where we could possibly look. 301 00:15:37,870 --> 00:15:39,630 I noticed that there was a hiker 302 00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:42,770 in the Facebook group, Magpie. 303 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,030 He kept coming in contact with her, 304 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:53,130 and I got the impression that they bonded. 305 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:54,970 -[dog barking] -[MJ] I love it, you know, I wanna make... 306 00:15:54,970 --> 00:15:57,070 [dogs barking] 307 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,500 [MJ] I think all the times I met him 308 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,970 were in October of 2017. 309 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:08,030 [dogs barking] 310 00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:12,530 [indistinct chatter] 311 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:17,600 [woman] Come on. 312 00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:20,700 [MJ] CJ. He won't come. 313 00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:21,730 Kitty, kitty. 314 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:23,470 Well, I talk a lot. 315 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,030 Most people hiking are in a big hurry, 316 00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:33,030 especially the young men. 317 00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:36,300 I am never surprised that an old lady like myself 318 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,470 is easily dismissed as irrelevant. 319 00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:44,300 So, yes, I was, um, pleasantly surprised 320 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:45,800 that this young man would talk to me. 321 00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:51,370 I was 68 when I said, 322 00:16:51,370 --> 00:16:53,830 "Oh, I'm gonna do about half the Appalachian Trail." 323 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,400 And I had friends who, kind of, laughed 324 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,730 and acted like, "That's just really hard." 325 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,430 I wanted to see if I could still do it. 326 00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:12,230 And that's when I met him. 327 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,530 I was just walking up the trail 328 00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:19,800 and this guy was coming down and he stopped. 329 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,100 I noticed his pack was abnormally large and... 330 00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:24,170 Which is a little bit unusual for a hiker... 331 00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:25,730 A thru-hiker, especially. 332 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:30,070 He asked me why my name was Magpie, and I said, 333 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:31,900 "Oh, because it's a big noisy bird, 334 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,100 but I don't like shiny objects." 335 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,700 He said, "That sounds like 336 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:39,830 something a magpie would say." 337 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:42,730 So he immediately reached into his trash bag 338 00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:44,000 and he handed me 339 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,770 a shiny gum wrapper. 340 00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:50,500 I wish I'd saved it. 341 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:56,100 I live for the connection with people 342 00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:58,100 and I don't always have it. 343 00:17:59,170 --> 00:18:01,500 Oh, I just felt like I knew him, 344 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,330 knew him from the inside, his soul, if you will. 345 00:18:04,330 --> 00:18:06,500 I felt that in my spirit, 346 00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:08,100 it's like in my heart. 347 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:14,170 He was kind to me. What can I say? 348 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:16,330 I cannot say that any better. He was kind. 349 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,700 I did not know him as Mostly Harmless. 350 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,900 Uh, I knew him only as Denim. 351 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:28,600 That was his early trail name. 352 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,070 I said, "Was that because you were hiking in blue jeans 353 00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:35,370 when you first started?" 354 00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:38,130 And he readily, uh, said yes. 355 00:18:41,870 --> 00:18:45,300 Later on, I met him again at this little cafe. 356 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:47,570 I saw him sitting there with a young woman. 357 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:50,600 I didn't expect to see him. 358 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,300 But he did, kind of, call me over. 359 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,330 After we had chatted for a while, 360 00:18:56,330 --> 00:18:57,870 I came up with the idea of, 361 00:18:57,870 --> 00:19:00,130 "Well, what's your real name, Denim?" 362 00:19:00,130 --> 00:19:03,900 And he acted like he didn't wanna say. 363 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,970 And so I said, "Well, if we guess it, 364 00:19:06,970 --> 00:19:08,030 will you tell us?" 365 00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:10,830 Oh, yeah, he'd do that. 366 00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:12,830 So I just went down the alphabet. 367 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:16,530 It was just for fun. 368 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:20,330 But I think he did tell me his name. 369 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:25,500 But I could not remember. 370 00:19:29,030 --> 00:19:31,470 [Kelly] He started the trail wearing jeans. 371 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:33,300 That's a no-no. 372 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:35,700 You want the thinner cloths, 373 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,670 the wick-away moisture, that kind of thing. 374 00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:42,070 For experienced hikers, they would know not to wear jeans. 375 00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:44,430 They would know not to carry a very heavy backpack. 376 00:19:44,430 --> 00:19:47,270 This is somebody who, for whatever reason, 377 00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:50,770 decided to start hiking in the recent past. 378 00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:52,930 [birds chirping] 379 00:19:52,930 --> 00:19:55,270 [Christie] Doing the Appalachian Trail on the fly 380 00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:57,930 is like going from walking around 381 00:19:57,930 --> 00:20:00,300 the block to running the Boston Marathon. 382 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,770 You just don't do it. 383 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:04,430 [David H] And when you take into consideration 384 00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:07,430 that he had fairly expensive gear 385 00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:09,830 and that the gear seemed fairly new, 386 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:11,800 you think, "Oh, wait a minute. 387 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,970 There's something here that we can look into." 388 00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:17,770 We released another bulletin, additional photos of him, 389 00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:19,400 including one of his tent. 390 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:22,730 We were always hopeful 391 00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:24,430 that one more person would contact us. 392 00:20:24,430 --> 00:20:26,200 I just needed that one tip. 393 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:30,170 And then a gentleman called and said 394 00:20:30,170 --> 00:20:32,370 that he recognized his tent 395 00:20:32,370 --> 00:20:34,000 from this flyer on Facebook 396 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,230 and said that he had sold that to our decedent. 397 00:20:39,130 --> 00:20:42,300 So we looked through receipts to see if anything 398 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,200 could give us a clue to his identity. 399 00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:48,070 We determined he used cash, 400 00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:50,130 but the business owner realized that he must have 401 00:20:50,130 --> 00:20:51,630 stayed at the hostel next door. 402 00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:55,430 And that hostel would not allow the hikers 403 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:58,170 to sign in under a trail name. 404 00:20:58,170 --> 00:21:00,630 They required an actual name. 405 00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,730 We looked through the logbook 406 00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:08,430 of everyone that stayed there 407 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,900 and found that he had signed in 408 00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:15,070 under a name. 409 00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:23,430 [David H] And we thought, "Okay. 410 00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:25,100 We have something to work with." 411 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,330 We located several Ben Bilemys. 412 00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:29,970 We reached out and made contact. 413 00:21:29,970 --> 00:21:31,600 Obviously, they were alive 414 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,500 and they were not my deceased hiker. 415 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:36,370 We came up empty-handed. 416 00:21:36,370 --> 00:21:39,370 And we knew at that point that he had just chosen 417 00:21:39,370 --> 00:21:41,300 to use an alias for signing in. 418 00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:47,670 [David H] He was definitely 419 00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:49,930 trying to stay anonymous. 420 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,200 A fake name and a trail name, and that's all we had. 421 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,200 If he's going to this extent, 422 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,200 putting this much effort 423 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,930 into leaving no footprint, 424 00:22:00,930 --> 00:22:05,000 maybe there's a reason for him not wanting to be identified. 425 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,400 This person may have been a suspect 426 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,430 in a crime that occurred somewhere else. 427 00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:16,430 [crows cawing] 428 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:18,470 [eerie music playing] 429 00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:21,600 [MJ] Anytime somebody said he was a criminal, 430 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,070 I thought, "I don't think so. 431 00:22:23,070 --> 00:22:25,030 I don't think so." 432 00:22:25,030 --> 00:22:27,970 Just didn't fit anything I knew about him. 433 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,870 He let people take pictures of him. 434 00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:35,370 How can this guy stay hidden? 435 00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:39,430 We began to realize that any possibility 436 00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:41,300 was in play for this case. 437 00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:47,930 Initially, we attempted all traditional methods 438 00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:50,800 of identifying our decedent. 439 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,530 We were grasping at anything we could at that point. 440 00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:58,030 The notebook which had computer code, 441 00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:59,970 it was mathematical equations, 442 00:22:59,970 --> 00:23:02,330 things that frankly we looked at 443 00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:04,900 and didn't understand. 444 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,600 We knew it was a long shot, but at that point, 445 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,530 we wanted to exhaust every possible resource. 446 00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:15,830 All right, let's release the notebooks. 447 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:17,530 Let's see if anybody can recognize it. 448 00:23:23,170 --> 00:23:24,730 [Nicholas] My name is Nicholas Thompson. 449 00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:26,400 I'm the CEO of The Atlantic. 450 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,670 And I was formerly the Editor-in-Chief of WIRED. 451 00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:31,570 I was checking my email 452 00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:35,830 and I got a note in the secret tip jar I keep 453 00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:38,270 for story ideas, 454 00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:40,870 saying, "Hey, there's an interesting case 455 00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:43,470 about a hiker who disappeared." 456 00:23:43,470 --> 00:23:47,400 It was the sort of this incredible tale. 457 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,600 WIRED is a magazine about the big issues in tech. 458 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,230 For example, privacy. 459 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,400 Recognizing just how hard it is 460 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,770 to disappear in 2020 461 00:23:57,770 --> 00:24:00,270 that I thought, this is really interesting. 462 00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:05,570 So I said, "You know what? I can make this a story." 463 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:07,100 As I started investigating, 464 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:09,970 the authorities had released the notebooks publicly, 465 00:24:09,970 --> 00:24:11,670 and no one knew what it was. 466 00:24:13,530 --> 00:24:15,100 Could he be mining Bitcoin? 467 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,600 Could he be writing JavaScript? 468 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,600 And then the notes were posted online, 469 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,670 and it turned out, these were instructions in code 470 00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:25,400 for a game called Screeps. 471 00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:29,700 It's a programming game for programmers 472 00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:33,630 where you basically create worlds and fortresses. 473 00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:35,870 But it was not like a game where you go in 474 00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:37,830 and you try to shoot the robots. 475 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:39,730 You write code, 476 00:24:39,730 --> 00:24:42,100 which will both protect your fortress 477 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:44,900 and attack other people's fortresses or raid them. 478 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:46,830 And even when you're not playing the game, 479 00:24:46,830 --> 00:24:47,830 your code is running. 480 00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:53,230 So this hiker had built a world and a game 481 00:24:53,230 --> 00:24:55,600 that was still playing even while he was gone. 482 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,630 There was this sense that you could reverse engineer, 483 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:02,430 that you could figure out, "Oh, this is the code, 484 00:25:02,430 --> 00:25:05,400 so we must find a character who plays like that code." 485 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,400 And so people went into Screeps 486 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,600 and they tried to find the identity 487 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,300 of Mostly Harmless. 488 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,970 But they weren't able to get anywhere. 489 00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:20,470 And then people in the Facebook group 490 00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:22,230 contacted Screeps administrators, 491 00:25:23,930 --> 00:25:25,600 but people who invented it are programmers 492 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,270 making a game for programmers. 493 00:25:27,270 --> 00:25:30,570 Programmers tend to care a lot about privacy. 494 00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:32,870 So yeah, they protected his privacy, 495 00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:36,670 and it ended up being a dead end. 496 00:25:38,770 --> 00:25:41,430 I have no doubt that part of the reason 497 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:42,970 it was so hard to find Mostly Harmless 498 00:25:42,970 --> 00:25:45,200 was because he was very good at tech 499 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,100 and worked very hard to not create a digital trail, 500 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,630 and to erase whatever he had left. 501 00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:55,570 Someone somewhere was missing him, 502 00:25:55,570 --> 00:25:58,200 but they didn't know he was gone. 503 00:26:02,830 --> 00:26:06,030 He had to have a family somewhere. 504 00:26:06,030 --> 00:26:07,870 The longer it got, the less likely it was 505 00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:09,200 he was gonna be named. 506 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,230 So I had to do something. 507 00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:14,770 Basically, I clock out 508 00:26:14,770 --> 00:26:16,230 and I'll sit down at a computer. 509 00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:24,470 I come here because the internet's better. 510 00:26:26,170 --> 00:26:28,600 I spend most of my life here. 511 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,630 I myself read pretty much physically everything 512 00:26:31,630 --> 00:26:33,530 on the internet that I can find about him 513 00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:34,870 and then I memorized it. 514 00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:39,170 And then the person that owned the group, 515 00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:42,070 she came to me and said, "You know the case very well." 516 00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:43,470 I go, "Thank you. Yes." 517 00:26:43,470 --> 00:26:46,030 And she goes, "Would you like to be a moderator?" 518 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,530 And I'm like, "Yes." 519 00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:55,630 When I was younger, I wanted to join the FBI 520 00:26:55,630 --> 00:26:58,200 and I wanted to be a profiler. 521 00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,970 And then my family, 522 00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:02,600 the house burned to the ground. 523 00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:07,300 We lost everything we had. 524 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,700 My dreams had to be put on hold. 525 00:27:11,670 --> 00:27:14,630 I couldn't afford to go get a college degree. 526 00:27:19,230 --> 00:27:22,370 I just channeled all that energy 527 00:27:22,370 --> 00:27:25,970 into the finding a name, 528 00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:28,900 finding a loved one, 529 00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:30,800 finding that person. 530 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:33,670 He was not getting internet famous 531 00:27:33,670 --> 00:27:36,070 fast enough for my taste. 532 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:41,470 And I figured I had to start somewhere. 533 00:27:41,470 --> 00:27:46,270 We went literally from Maine to Florida, 534 00:27:46,270 --> 00:27:48,030 county by county, 535 00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:51,400 calling and emailing every police agency, 536 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,100 every media outlet, 537 00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,370 trying to get some attention. 538 00:27:57,130 --> 00:27:58,330 I'm here to do a job, 539 00:27:58,330 --> 00:28:00,300 and that's to get him his name back, 540 00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:01,730 no matter what. 541 00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:16,030 [David H] The first six months were busy, 542 00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:18,600 a lot of activity, a lot of information. 543 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,000 By this point in the investigation, 544 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,470 we've had hundreds of tips. 545 00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:29,570 The vast majority were... not helpful. 546 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,200 The frustration just started to set in. 547 00:28:40,670 --> 00:28:42,970 We had exhausted 548 00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:45,400 all of our traditional tools in our toolbox. 549 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,530 We didn't have any new doors to open. 550 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,270 Shit. What else can we do? 551 00:28:57,270 --> 00:28:58,830 At a certain point, 552 00:28:58,830 --> 00:29:00,570 you have to look outside the box. 553 00:29:03,030 --> 00:29:04,400 The Collier County Sheriff's Office, 554 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,600 under the direction of Sheriff Kevin Rambosk, 555 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,430 presents Sworn Statement, 556 00:29:08,430 --> 00:29:11,800 a podcast covering local cases and public safety issues, 557 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,500 all unfolding right here in Southwest Florida. 558 00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:17,470 And then the great idea for the podcast came up. 559 00:29:17,470 --> 00:29:19,000 It's not something that I'm aware 560 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,330 that we have done before. 561 00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:21,770 [Kristine] Let's say you wanted 562 00:29:21,770 --> 00:29:23,370 to disappear tomorrow. 563 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:24,830 What would you do? 564 00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:27,430 Well, for starters, you'd ditch your cell phone. 565 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:29,530 Everything from your name to your location 566 00:29:29,530 --> 00:29:31,600 and bank accounts are tied to it, 567 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,570 and you'd want to get rid of your social media accounts too. 568 00:29:34,570 --> 00:29:36,870 I know that true crime is a huge genre. 569 00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:38,670 Let's try to reach out to that community 570 00:29:38,670 --> 00:29:41,300 to try to, kind of, put the pieces together. 571 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,530 [Kristine] The first three episodes of this podcast 572 00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:46,300 will focus on the mystery of the deceased hiker, 573 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:48,170 known as Mostly Harmless. 574 00:29:48,170 --> 00:29:50,100 If I wanted to disappear tomorrow, 575 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:51,230 it would be impossible. 576 00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:55,100 I cannot scrub the internet of my likeness. 577 00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:57,470 He was such a mystery, 578 00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:59,830 and I think that that was something 579 00:29:59,830 --> 00:30:01,730 that, kind of, piqued everyone's interest. 580 00:30:03,570 --> 00:30:05,330 [Christie] The group grew 581 00:30:05,330 --> 00:30:07,170 because the word was getting out. 582 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,070 [Kristine] We got 10,000 or 12,000 listens 583 00:30:11,070 --> 00:30:13,370 that first couple months. 584 00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:15,070 When we hear stories like this 585 00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:16,430 of a man who died alone, 586 00:30:16,430 --> 00:30:18,370 not having breathed his real name 587 00:30:18,370 --> 00:30:21,670 to a single soul for the last year of his life, 588 00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:23,300 we wanna know why. 589 00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:29,630 [Natasha] I do not identify as a member 590 00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:31,070 of the true crime community. 591 00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:36,030 The outdoor world, like, is just to me, it's, 592 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:39,100 like, it's home, you know. 593 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,100 There is a commitment to the outdoor world, 594 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,070 like, we take care of each other. 595 00:30:47,070 --> 00:30:48,700 We're not gonna leave each other behind. 596 00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:51,600 If someone gets hurt, you get them out. 597 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:55,330 And I think that played a big factor 598 00:30:55,330 --> 00:30:58,400 in how I felt about this case. 599 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,100 This was a member of my community. 600 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:01,900 This was an outdoor person 601 00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:03,170 and I had to take care of him. 602 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:07,370 I don't know anything about sleeping cases. 603 00:31:07,370 --> 00:31:10,770 I didn't think I was a person who could do that. 604 00:31:10,770 --> 00:31:13,370 But I had been home with COVID 605 00:31:13,370 --> 00:31:15,600 and I'm not sure what to do with myself. 606 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,570 And I started digging further on Google 607 00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:21,500 and that's how I ended up finding the Facebook group. 608 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,170 So I joined the group, and it was chaos. 609 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:34,600 Christie Harris was the sole moderator for the group 610 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,670 and everyone was just, kind of, coming in, 611 00:31:36,670 --> 00:31:39,200 doing these weird random posts. 612 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,470 [Christie] His case brought the crazies 613 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:43,270 out of the woodwork. 614 00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:44,970 There were theories 615 00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:47,470 that he could have been an international spy. 616 00:31:47,470 --> 00:31:49,770 Oh, yeah. The time traveler. 617 00:31:49,770 --> 00:31:51,530 Someone thought he may have been an alien. 618 00:31:51,530 --> 00:31:54,400 Okay. Let's just work with what we have. 619 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,630 I don't wanna dissuade people from calling. 620 00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:58,570 We want any and all information. 621 00:31:58,570 --> 00:32:00,170 We hope for good information. 622 00:32:00,170 --> 00:32:03,930 Another person thought he may have been a ghost, 623 00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:07,030 like, an actual reincarnated ghost 624 00:32:07,030 --> 00:32:09,330 that was walking the earth. 625 00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:11,230 Whenever one woman saw a picture 626 00:32:11,230 --> 00:32:13,170 of him standing in front of those billboards, 627 00:32:13,170 --> 00:32:14,830 he's standing too close to it, 628 00:32:14,830 --> 00:32:16,970 so she decided he couldn't see, 629 00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:20,030 and he couldn't find the food in his tent. 630 00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:22,630 Yeah. This is, kind of, dumb. 631 00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:25,330 [Kristin] Sometimes the leads weren't actionable and... 632 00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:28,970 Though they believed in them very strongly. 633 00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:31,270 [Natasha] A lot of the stuff, it was just distractions 634 00:32:31,270 --> 00:32:33,430 from accomplishing the task, 635 00:32:34,430 --> 00:32:36,300 figuring out who the hell this guy is. 636 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,770 I think we really, really thought we were gonna get 637 00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:43,100 the solution from something that he told a hiker. 638 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,570 So I read the account 639 00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:46,600 by a hiker named Brandon Dowell 640 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,230 who met Mostly Harmless in Georgia. 641 00:32:57,330 --> 00:32:58,700 [Brandon] I think there's a lot of hurt people 642 00:32:58,700 --> 00:32:59,730 on the trail. 643 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,700 There is an interesting dichotomy of people having 644 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:08,030 the time of their lives and people also 645 00:33:08,030 --> 00:33:11,070 having this time of growth and healing. 646 00:33:11,070 --> 00:33:14,100 And, you know, if you're looking 647 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:15,630 for that kind of companionship, 648 00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:16,700 I think you'll find it. 649 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:17,730 And I think that's what happened 650 00:33:17,730 --> 00:33:18,730 with me and Denim. 651 00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:21,000 [woman laughs] 652 00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:25,870 Don't rush me. 653 00:33:25,870 --> 00:33:27,800 [Brandon] Everybody's Russian. 654 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,400 I first started going to the trail 655 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,630 when I was 17. 656 00:33:33,630 --> 00:33:37,870 I was just dealing with so much, like, anger 657 00:33:37,870 --> 00:33:39,870 and I felt it would solve my problems 658 00:33:39,870 --> 00:33:42,130 to, kind of, pack up and go 659 00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:44,100 and just go hike and restart 660 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,970 and maybe not come back. 661 00:33:53,370 --> 00:33:55,330 The trip where I met Denim, 662 00:33:55,330 --> 00:33:57,970 I wanted to go out for a couple days. 663 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,700 I got to Amicalola. 664 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,730 I hiked out that morning 665 00:34:09,730 --> 00:34:12,430 and ended up at Springer Mountain Shelter. 666 00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:16,430 Maybe an hour or two after I got there, 667 00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:18,600 I see this scraggly man walking up 668 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,270 and I'm like, "Oh, gosh. 669 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:23,430 He looks like he's been out for a long time." 670 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,070 I was glad to see him because, you know, 671 00:34:30,070 --> 00:34:32,270 you just want someone to talk to, hang out, 672 00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:37,070 have some friends around the fire with you, 673 00:34:37,070 --> 00:34:39,370 because I didn't have a lot of friends in school. 674 00:34:43,330 --> 00:34:45,900 And we talked about a lot of things over dinner. 675 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,400 It was a lot of sci-fi girls and childhood. 676 00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:55,930 He told me, you know, "I just went 677 00:34:55,930 --> 00:34:59,200 through a breakup not too long ago." 678 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,670 It seemed like it was fresh in his mind, you know, 679 00:35:01,670 --> 00:35:04,330 to mention one specific breakup. 680 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,530 As the night continued, you know, 681 00:35:07,530 --> 00:35:09,170 things did get deeper. 682 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,470 You know, we talked more about childhood. 683 00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:19,630 The only story in particular that I remember is 684 00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:22,400 his dad took him out into the yard one day 685 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,730 and tried to fight him. 686 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,630 I remember him telling me that he just walked away. 687 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,300 It seems like he wanted to get away from them, you know. 688 00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:36,070 I understood. 689 00:35:36,670 --> 00:35:40,000 When I was three, 690 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,670 my stepdad, Rob, came into the picture. 691 00:35:42,670 --> 00:35:44,430 I don't know if I'm allowed to say his name but, 692 00:35:44,430 --> 00:35:46,270 fuck that guy, so whatever. 693 00:35:48,030 --> 00:35:52,530 He immediately just began this campaign of terror 694 00:35:52,530 --> 00:35:54,070 in the household. 695 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,700 Denim, he had been there, same place. 696 00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:05,430 To connect with somebody on that level 697 00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:07,470 was really special. 698 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,200 And we had breakfast together the next morning. 699 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,230 I just remember he ate a lot. 700 00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:18,970 He ate and ate and ate. 701 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,930 We packed up and we walked to the junction 702 00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:28,470 of the Appalachian Trail and the Benton MacKaye Trail. 703 00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:33,070 And I asked him if he was sure that, 704 00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:35,800 you know, he didn't wanna keep in touch. 705 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,000 And he just kind of looked at me real sad 706 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,400 and shook his head no, 707 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,130 and we shook hands and that was it. 708 00:36:44,130 --> 00:36:45,470 We parted ways. 709 00:36:56,630 --> 00:37:00,130 You always think that somebody is going to say, 710 00:37:00,130 --> 00:37:01,500 "Hey, you know, I had a friend, 711 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:03,930 I had a brother, I had a son, 712 00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:07,030 and I can't find him, can't get in touch with him." 713 00:37:08,030 --> 00:37:10,530 And it was about maybe a year 714 00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:12,870 and no one had come forward. 715 00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:14,800 [Natasha] He's broken up with his girlfriend 716 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,630 and he was abused by his father. 717 00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:20,000 A lot of people started speculating then 718 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,330 because of the history of abuse 719 00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:24,630 that he may not have family looking for him. 720 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:27,870 So if no one is looking for Mostly Harmless, 721 00:37:27,870 --> 00:37:29,530 the hikers were the only people we knew 722 00:37:29,530 --> 00:37:32,430 that actually had talked to this person. 723 00:37:32,430 --> 00:37:34,970 And I became obsessed with, like, finding new hikers 724 00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:36,930 and talking to new hikers. 725 00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:39,600 But I was immediately told by Christie Harris 726 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,030 that that was not something I could do. 727 00:37:42,030 --> 00:37:44,870 I had decided that the hikers 728 00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:48,330 were pretty much useless. 729 00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:50,330 [Natasha] Everything had to be done through Christie. 730 00:37:50,330 --> 00:37:52,000 Posts had to be Christie-approved. 731 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,400 Searches had to be Christie-approved. 732 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,870 If you wanna submit something 733 00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:56,100 to call your county sheriff's office, 734 00:37:56,100 --> 00:37:57,800 guess who you had to tell you're gonna do that? 735 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,870 Sometimes, you have to be the hammer 736 00:37:59,870 --> 00:38:03,470 and, frankly, not be nice to get stuff done. 737 00:38:03,470 --> 00:38:05,370 She sent me a message and said, 738 00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:06,600 "You should go fuck yourself. 739 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,730 I've already heard from people that say they don't like you." 740 00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:12,230 I was trying, in my opinion, to keep order. 741 00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:15,970 I can't get the job done of what I want to do 742 00:38:15,970 --> 00:38:17,570 if I've got, 743 00:38:17,570 --> 00:38:19,570 "Blah, blah, blah, Natasha's doing this. 744 00:38:19,570 --> 00:38:21,400 Blah, blah, blah, September is doing this." 745 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,070 The atmosphere was hostile. 746 00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:25,400 [Christie] I felt like I was a babysitter, 747 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,300 a referee, 748 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:29,870 and in some cases, a punching bag. 749 00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:31,800 I was told I was stupid. 750 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,330 I was told I was an idiot. 751 00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:36,200 That's the red line for me. 752 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,900 I hated being treated like I was nothing. 753 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,030 And I just said I've had enough of this. 754 00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:44,500 Fuck you. 755 00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:50,100 I cruised through those groups occasionally 756 00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:51,870 to see if there's any new threads 757 00:38:51,870 --> 00:38:53,730 or any new information or whatnot. 758 00:38:53,730 --> 00:38:55,730 When it starts to get, you know, 759 00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:57,970 Days of Our Lives like that, I just... 760 00:38:57,970 --> 00:38:59,930 I move on. 761 00:38:59,930 --> 00:39:01,300 Christie quits 762 00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:03,630 and the group is a burning 763 00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:05,300 dumpster fire at this point. 764 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:08,400 So I message the woman who had started the group 765 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,930 and said, you know, "Your group doesn't have a moderator. 766 00:39:10,930 --> 00:39:13,030 You might wanna get one so that it can, like, 767 00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:14,570 actually function." 768 00:39:14,570 --> 00:39:16,400 And she responded back that the group 769 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,670 could then pick who was gonna be the next moderator. 770 00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:21,670 Within two days, I was the moderator 771 00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:24,070 because the group had selected me to be the moderator. 772 00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:32,500 For 17 years, I was the operations manager 773 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,530 of a canoe and kayak company. 774 00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:37,630 A lot of people often would think 775 00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:39,200 I was the owner of the company 776 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,870 just because of the amount of leadership I would take. 777 00:39:44,130 --> 00:39:47,130 But I wasn't listening to as much. 778 00:39:47,130 --> 00:39:50,430 My ideas were passed over where... 779 00:39:50,430 --> 00:39:53,130 And I came to found out that all women's pay 780 00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:54,830 at that company was suppressed. 781 00:39:54,830 --> 00:39:57,430 Men were making $5 more an hour. 782 00:39:59,830 --> 00:40:03,770 So I had been feeling greatly underappreciated. 783 00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:07,900 So when I first joined the group, 784 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:09,600 I felt like this was the opportunity 785 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,600 to try something new. 786 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,600 I wanted to approach this from a standpoint of, like, 787 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,300 this is my person I care about. 788 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,330 How would I want that case treated? 789 00:40:18,330 --> 00:40:19,630 Let's get organized. 790 00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:21,830 What's been done, what hasn't been done, 791 00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:24,230 let's create an album, 792 00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:26,370 not just a scattering of photos throughout the group, 793 00:40:26,370 --> 00:40:29,530 that is all of our people who we still need to talk to. 794 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,230 That was the moment that I realized 795 00:40:33,230 --> 00:40:35,400 no one has talked to Mike Gormley. 796 00:40:37,830 --> 00:40:40,030 He was the last person that we know of 797 00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:42,000 that saw Mostly Harmless alive. 798 00:40:44,170 --> 00:40:45,900 [bell ringing] 799 00:40:47,170 --> 00:40:50,430 [country music playing] 800 00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:57,700 [Mike] ♪ Bow to the partner And the corners too ♪ 801 00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:00,130 ♪ All four ladies, Chain across ♪ 802 00:41:04,070 --> 00:41:05,970 My name is Mike Gormley. 803 00:41:06,970 --> 00:41:08,900 ♪ Sides, face your partner ♪ 804 00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:11,970 My trail name is Water Boy. 805 00:41:11,970 --> 00:41:14,600 ♪ Grand square, One, two, three, turn ♪ 806 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,400 ♪ And a one, two, three ♪ 807 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,530 Back in 2015 and 2016, 808 00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:21,200 I attempted to hike the Appalachian Trail. 809 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,670 ♪ Ladies, center The men, sashay ♪ 810 00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:25,230 That's where I first experienced 811 00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:27,330 what trail magic was. 812 00:41:27,330 --> 00:41:28,570 ♪ Wheel around ♪ 813 00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:31,400 ♪ Lines forward, up And you come on back ♪ 814 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,430 ♪ Join your... ♪ 815 00:41:32,430 --> 00:41:35,030 Supposedly, I was the last hiker 816 00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:38,800 to see Mostly Harmless before he was found. 817 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,070 ♪ Promenade right there, Promenade ♪ 818 00:41:41,070 --> 00:41:43,800 ♪ Go walking around The square ♪ 819 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,900 ♪ When you get back home ♪ 820 00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:48,170 ♪ Bow to the partner, Corner by the hall ♪ 821 00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:50,170 ♪ That's it, that's all All right ♪ 822 00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:52,600 Thank everybody in your square and we'll take a break. 823 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,500 [all] Thank you. 824 00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:57,000 Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. 825 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,070 [creatures chittering] 826 00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:06,830 [Mike] Around April 13th or so is the day I ran into him. 827 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,370 It was like 85 degrees out that day. 828 00:42:11,470 --> 00:42:13,800 I just decided that it was best 829 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,300 that I get off the trail. 830 00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:21,400 I got to the roadway, took the chance, 831 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,430 and stuck out my thumb and tried to... 832 00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:25,570 Tried to hitch a ride and this guy stopped 833 00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:26,670 in a pickup truck. 834 00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:32,230 We were driving along and, all of a sudden, 835 00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:35,070 he saw someone along the roadside. 836 00:42:35,070 --> 00:42:36,630 He says, "Well, there's a hiker right there. 837 00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:38,270 You wanna go back and talk to him, 838 00:42:38,270 --> 00:42:39,800 chat a little?" And I said, "Sure." 839 00:42:40,930 --> 00:42:44,570 And here's my first picture that I took 840 00:42:44,570 --> 00:42:46,530 when I met Mostly Harmless. 841 00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:52,570 I noticed his cheeks are, um, quite pudgy, 842 00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:54,670 you know, like he's well-fed. 843 00:42:57,070 --> 00:42:59,830 When I observed that his pack was awful large, and I say, 844 00:42:59,830 --> 00:43:02,170 "So what do you got in there that weighs so much?" 845 00:43:02,170 --> 00:43:03,670 He goes, "Well, I got... 846 00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:05,430 I got winter clothes in there." 847 00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:08,670 And I'm thinking, mid-April in Florida, 848 00:43:08,670 --> 00:43:11,130 you're not gonna need winter clothes anymore. 849 00:43:13,970 --> 00:43:15,870 And I said, "Just give me your winter clothes. 850 00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:19,030 I can send them back for you." And he declined. 851 00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:22,170 He says, "Oh, I'll just keep them a little bit longer," 852 00:43:22,170 --> 00:43:25,470 which seemed a little bit strange to me. 853 00:43:25,470 --> 00:43:27,230 When we were talking, he's... He wanted to know 854 00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:29,800 if there was any campsites up ahead. 855 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,630 And this is the view at Nobles campsite. 856 00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:35,130 The campsite that I mentioned to him 857 00:43:35,130 --> 00:43:36,970 is where they found him, 858 00:43:36,970 --> 00:43:38,800 some two and a half months later. 859 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,670 The last picture known of him before he was found. 860 00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:49,670 When I realized that maybe he had 861 00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:52,400 just only hiked five miles further 862 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,100 and that was the end of his hike 863 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,500 for two and a half months, 864 00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,670 it made me a little curious as to, 865 00:43:59,670 --> 00:44:01,170 "Oh, gee. What's going on here?" 866 00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:07,870 Was it foul play or just what was it, you know? 867 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:13,300 [Natasha] People, like, started to wonder, 868 00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:15,530 "How could you go from being this person 869 00:44:15,530 --> 00:44:20,170 to the person in the tent who is completely skeletal?" 870 00:44:20,170 --> 00:44:22,570 [David H] He had food with him. 871 00:44:22,570 --> 00:44:24,370 We were unable to determine 872 00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:26,630 if it was an intentional act on his part not to eat. 873 00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:29,330 I would say if he was planning 874 00:44:29,330 --> 00:44:30,900 on keeping his winter clothes 875 00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:34,170 that he was not planning on dying. 876 00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:36,900 [MJ] I didn't think he was the type that would just 877 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:39,400 commit suicide or starve himself to death. 878 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,570 I just thought something went wrong. 879 00:44:41,570 --> 00:44:44,530 Maybe he got sick or maybe, you know, he caught some bug. 880 00:44:46,330 --> 00:44:49,000 [Natasha] Maybe a snake bite. Did somebody harm him? 881 00:44:49,570 --> 00:44:50,630 I didn't know. 882 00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:52,700 I didn't have a theory that made sense. 883 00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:54,230 [MJ] But the sheriff's office said, 884 00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:56,830 "We don't suspect foul play." 885 00:44:56,830 --> 00:45:00,100 My little brain went, "Are you sure?" 886 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:01,970 All this leads back to the idea of, like, 887 00:45:01,970 --> 00:45:04,170 "Oh, how did he die?" We still don't know. 888 00:45:05,970 --> 00:45:08,730 Most people don't just lay down in a tent 889 00:45:08,730 --> 00:45:11,070 and die, you know? 890 00:45:16,970 --> 00:45:19,300 He left this world utterly alone. 891 00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:21,270 No one should ever be alone. 892 00:45:25,730 --> 00:45:28,930 [Christie] For me, with Jane and John Does, 893 00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:31,270 it's the story. 894 00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:33,900 It's about the story of the person. 895 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,530 It's really the underdog. 896 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,930 I've always felt like an underdog. 897 00:45:45,930 --> 00:45:48,470 Everything I have in life, I've fought, 898 00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:51,930 kicked, punched, and scratched my way to. 899 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,570 [Kelly] Up, up. 900 00:45:56,570 --> 00:45:57,900 [Christie] I live with my sister 901 00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:00,370 in an extended stay hotel. 902 00:46:00,370 --> 00:46:02,130 Let's get your shoes off. 903 00:46:02,670 --> 00:46:03,730 There you go. 904 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:08,130 And we've been there for about nine years. 905 00:46:13,170 --> 00:46:14,270 Do you need a drink? 906 00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:15,970 [Kelly] No. 907 00:46:17,130 --> 00:46:19,330 Do you need me to stand on my head? 908 00:46:19,330 --> 00:46:20,730 [Kelly] No. 909 00:46:20,730 --> 00:46:23,400 Do you say anything besides no? 910 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,430 -[Kelly] No. -[laughs] 911 00:46:27,370 --> 00:46:32,030 When I can, I jump into the world of true crime... 912 00:46:32,030 --> 00:46:33,530 [woman] Somebody takes your daughter. 913 00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:35,330 [Christie] ... to escape from everything else. 914 00:46:35,330 --> 00:46:36,800 [woman] You'll do anything... 915 00:46:38,330 --> 00:46:39,400 to find your child. 916 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,470 [somber music playing] 917 00:46:48,830 --> 00:46:51,600 [Christie] I couldn't deal with the fact of him sitting in a basement 918 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,400 waiting for someone to identify him in some way. 919 00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:58,930 It didn't sit right with me. 920 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,000 I decided that I'm just gonna open my own group 921 00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:08,670 and go for it. 922 00:47:10,530 --> 00:47:14,200 A few people came with me from Natasha's group. 923 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,970 But with the new group, I had more power, 924 00:47:16,970 --> 00:47:18,170 more control. 925 00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:20,600 The group was also smaller, 926 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,870 which made it a lot easier to handle. 927 00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:28,070 And then, we had someone in the group 928 00:47:28,070 --> 00:47:32,030 filed a FOIA request to get the case file. 929 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,330 I got it all at once. 930 00:47:37,330 --> 00:47:39,500 I got the case file and the autopsy report 931 00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:40,870 and the autopsy photos. 932 00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:47,200 I was horrified the first time I saw them. 933 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:55,230 It looked like a bag of bones with skin over it. 934 00:47:57,730 --> 00:47:59,200 On the first flyer that 935 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,330 the Collier County Sheriff put out, 936 00:48:01,330 --> 00:48:05,100 it included what they called a small scar on his abdomen. 937 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:11,430 But then I saw the picture with the autopsy report 938 00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:14,430 and I'm going, "What in the world?" 939 00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:20,900 That was the understatement of the century. 940 00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:26,330 [Natasha] Small abdominal scar? 941 00:48:26,330 --> 00:48:30,100 Yeah, it's not a small abdominal scar at all. 942 00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:33,800 [Christie] I was utterly outraged when I realized that 943 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,970 his autopsy was an afterthought. 944 00:48:36,970 --> 00:48:40,900 That if they miss this, what else did they miss? 945 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,000 The scar really led me down the road of, "Okay, 946 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,200 what was wrong with him? 947 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,300 What happened to cause that scar?" 948 00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:52,600 [Natasha] People started saying like, 949 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,700 there had to have been a significant surgery. 950 00:48:57,270 --> 00:49:01,270 And there was this belief that he had cancer. 951 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,670 Cancer's never mentioned in the autopsy, 952 00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:07,330 so that leaves it wide open. 953 00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:11,870 But you can't go calling hospitals and say like, 954 00:49:11,870 --> 00:49:14,170 "Did you diagnose someone with cancer? Who was it? 955 00:49:14,170 --> 00:49:15,770 You know, we're trying to identify this guy." 956 00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:20,770 So people did searches for Appalachian Trail and cancer, 957 00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:26,100 and found this blog. 958 00:49:28,570 --> 00:49:32,370 This blog was about hiking the Appalachian Trail 959 00:49:32,370 --> 00:49:35,070 because of a cancer diagnosis. 960 00:49:35,070 --> 00:49:37,730 [Christie] It was, okay, I'm sick. 961 00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:39,630 I'm taking control of my life 962 00:49:39,630 --> 00:49:41,500 and I'm going out on my own terms. 963 00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:45,700 [Natasha] The only picture on the blog 964 00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:47,570 is in the back of a body, 965 00:49:47,570 --> 00:49:50,500 and the blog does just randomly end. 966 00:49:58,070 --> 00:50:00,700 [Natasha] People then circled back around on the fact 967 00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:04,300 that Ben Bilemy was the name used in the youth hostel. 968 00:50:04,300 --> 00:50:07,570 Everyone assumed this Ben Bilemy could be Ben Reynolds 969 00:50:07,570 --> 00:50:10,000 using Ben Bilemy as an alias. 970 00:50:16,330 --> 00:50:19,330 [Christie] I saw that blog, and I'm like, "That's him." 971 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,370 But there are a few rules to sleuthing. 972 00:50:23,370 --> 00:50:26,030 You never, ever go real life, 973 00:50:26,030 --> 00:50:30,130 because it is not your job to tell a family member 974 00:50:30,130 --> 00:50:32,930 that their loved one may be deceased. 975 00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:36,130 With Ben Reynolds, 976 00:50:36,130 --> 00:50:39,630 other people really went real life. 977 00:50:40,370 --> 00:50:43,000 -[dogs barking] -[Bill] Shh. 978 00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:50,270 My name is Bill Powell, aka Ben Reynolds. 979 00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:52,170 Uh, I am still alive. 980 00:50:55,330 --> 00:50:59,930 In 2012, I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. 981 00:50:59,930 --> 00:51:01,670 It's why I hit the trail. 982 00:51:02,670 --> 00:51:04,630 That blog was mainly for me. 983 00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:06,670 It was really my little therapy journal. 984 00:51:07,930 --> 00:51:09,170 To protect my identity, 985 00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:12,800 I hiked under the name, "Ben Reynolds". 986 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,130 Ben Reynolds I pulled out of a hat. 987 00:51:14,130 --> 00:51:16,330 I think I was listening to a lot of Ben Folds Five at the time. 988 00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:20,400 Got back and then all of this starts. 989 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,200 January of 2020, a bunch of years later, 990 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,100 I started getting messages, "Do you know Mostly Harmless? 991 00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:30,670 Are you Mostly Harmless? 992 00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:31,830 Are you dead?" 993 00:51:33,930 --> 00:51:35,600 The inbox started filling up, 994 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,470 the social profiles started filling up. 995 00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:42,070 I was getting messages, emails all week long, 996 00:51:42,070 --> 00:51:43,730 weekends, asking me, 997 00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:45,730 "How can you prove you're not this dead guy?" 998 00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:48,430 There's no logic. 999 00:51:48,430 --> 00:51:50,030 It just became insane. 1000 00:51:51,230 --> 00:51:54,230 My father, who's getting messages from my sister, 1001 00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:56,930 my friends, anyone that liked any of my posts, 1002 00:51:57,730 --> 00:51:59,730 things get crazier and crazier. 1003 00:51:59,730 --> 00:52:03,170 Right by June of 2020, it was 887 people. 1004 00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:04,630 -Hold it up like this. -No, no, no. 1005 00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:06,430 [Bill] No, you got it. No, you did it on your mom. 1006 00:52:06,430 --> 00:52:08,130 You... There was definitely a concern 1007 00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:10,430 that this could leak over to my family. 1008 00:52:12,970 --> 00:52:15,470 And that's when I really dove head first into it. 1009 00:52:15,470 --> 00:52:18,230 I'm gonna have to get real deep and proactive 1010 00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:20,000 and take it to these groups 1011 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,170 and say, "Look, I'm Ben Reynolds. 1012 00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:24,170 This is my story. Stop it." 1013 00:52:26,530 --> 00:52:29,470 So I would join all the Facebook groups I could. 1014 00:52:29,470 --> 00:52:31,870 That was super eye-opening, 1015 00:52:31,870 --> 00:52:33,830 eight to ten Facebook groups, 1016 00:52:33,830 --> 00:52:35,670 multiple Reddit, Subreddits, 1017 00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:38,200 websites dedicated to this guy. 1018 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,430 I went, wow, this is... This is insane. 1019 00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:45,830 That I'd have to go in and, you know, debunk it all, 1020 00:52:45,830 --> 00:52:48,170 admonish everyone that tried to do this, 1021 00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:49,600 explain that I'm alive. 1022 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,300 This admin says, 1023 00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:53,830 "How do I know that you're Ben Reynolds?" 1024 00:52:53,830 --> 00:52:58,070 And my response is, "Oh, for fuck's sake." 1025 00:52:59,030 --> 00:53:01,070 Despite me telling them that I'm not dead, 1026 00:53:01,070 --> 00:53:05,430 they would tell me, "Well, we can't rule you out." 1027 00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:06,770 Things get crazier and crazier. 1028 00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:09,400 It was like, oh, here's a picture from the blog 1029 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,930 and deconstructing my body language 1030 00:53:11,930 --> 00:53:15,270 and, you know, looking for the types of cancer 1031 00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:18,800 and extrapolating that to the body position 1032 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,870 of Mostly Harmless in the tent. 1033 00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:24,270 People wouldn't take my word for it 1034 00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:25,970 because my name said Bill Powell. 1035 00:53:25,970 --> 00:53:27,730 And so splinter groups formed 1036 00:53:27,730 --> 00:53:32,170 that dove into the Ben Reynolds mythos 1037 00:53:32,170 --> 00:53:38,070 and they post this picture of a Ben Reynolds in Australia. 1038 00:53:38,070 --> 00:53:40,230 And they started going down the path 1039 00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:41,900 of harassing this guy. 1040 00:53:43,070 --> 00:53:46,370 Anything can happen with the internet and sleuths, 1041 00:53:46,370 --> 00:53:48,030 anything, and they're crazy. 1042 00:53:48,030 --> 00:53:51,230 The consequences that were playing through my mind, 1043 00:53:51,230 --> 00:53:53,200 someone will show up at my daughter's school. 1044 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,400 Who knows? 1045 00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,930 Finally, I posted to Natasha's group 1046 00:53:58,930 --> 00:54:02,570 and said, "This is what I go through on a daily basis." 1047 00:54:04,030 --> 00:54:05,500 [Natasha] When I finally met Bill, 1048 00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:07,400 his life had been turned upside down for a long time. 1049 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,100 I would shut that shit down so fast. 1050 00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:13,030 [Bill] There are people on the other end 1051 00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:14,370 of these investigations. 1052 00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:16,130 This is not a competition. 1053 00:54:16,130 --> 00:54:18,070 It is not a reality show. 1054 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,830 [David H] The online sleuth groups, 1055 00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:27,170 they get caught up in the romance of it, 1056 00:54:27,170 --> 00:54:28,970 the mystery of it. 1057 00:54:28,970 --> 00:54:32,100 They get very gunman on the grassy knoll. 1058 00:54:33,930 --> 00:54:36,500 We didn't wanna open more possibilities 1059 00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:39,670 on why he died or how he died. 1060 00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:41,970 We wanted to narrow our focus 1061 00:54:41,970 --> 00:54:44,100 to identify who he is. 1062 00:54:59,530 --> 00:55:03,770 [David M] I'm, uh, David Mittelman, uh, CEO of Othram. 1063 00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:05,330 [Kristen] I'm Kristen Mittelman. 1064 00:55:05,330 --> 00:55:08,330 I'm the Chief Business Development Officer at Othram. 1065 00:55:09,570 --> 00:55:11,830 [David M] DNA is pretty much all we've ever done. 1066 00:55:11,830 --> 00:55:14,500 My wife is a biochemist by training, 1067 00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:17,530 a little bit different than the genetics background I have. 1068 00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:23,530 Othram's a company that supports law enforcement investigations. 1069 00:55:23,530 --> 00:55:26,070 Basically, we focus on human identification 1070 00:55:26,070 --> 00:55:27,830 from crime scenes. 1071 00:55:27,830 --> 00:55:29,400 [Kristen] Is there anything else you know about it 1072 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,170 that's strategizing business-wise? 1073 00:55:31,170 --> 00:55:33,870 I thought we should take some more notorious cases. 1074 00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:36,170 This case was really unique and that there was a lot 1075 00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:38,230 of, uh, attention drawn to the case. 1076 00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:40,170 There was an online Facebook group 1077 00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:43,200 with thousands of folks that were working on it. 1078 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,170 [Kristen] Do you know what evidence we got? 1079 00:55:45,170 --> 00:55:47,200 -The skeletal remains. -[man] Yeah. 1080 00:55:49,530 --> 00:55:51,830 -[producer] Okay. -Does it look awesome? 1081 00:55:51,830 --> 00:55:54,500 Can you see the little, uh, DNA thing on my hat? 1082 00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:56,170 -It's very important to me. -[producer] Yes, I can. 1083 00:55:56,170 --> 00:55:58,170 If you just wanted to look at a bunch of DNA, 1084 00:55:58,170 --> 00:56:01,130 uh, it looks a lot like, um, like this. 1085 00:56:01,130 --> 00:56:03,300 And these are basically the positions along 1086 00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:05,600 what's called the human reference sequence. 1087 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,000 You can cluster them using principle component analysis and figure out-- 1088 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,070 [producer speaking] 1089 00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:15,500 All right, sure. 1090 00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:23,070 There's 3 billion positions that describe your DNA. 1091 00:56:23,070 --> 00:56:26,230 Traditional forensic testing right now that the police use 1092 00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:30,870 to identify people looks at 10 markers in someone's DNA. 1093 00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:33,200 The sequencing that we do here at Othram looks at tens 1094 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,430 of thousands to hundreds of thousands of markers. 1095 00:56:36,430 --> 00:56:39,000 The technology that Othram is using is new, 1096 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,670 the ideas are new. 1097 00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:43,430 They look for similarities between the DNA 1098 00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:45,500 you have stored and the person you found. 1099 00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:47,230 And you can say, oh, 1100 00:56:47,230 --> 00:56:50,800 these DNA is pretty close to people from this region 1101 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,930 or it's pretty close to this family. 1102 00:56:52,930 --> 00:56:56,770 So you don't get a precise match, you get a clue. 1103 00:56:58,100 --> 00:57:00,770 [David M] When we got ahold of law enforcement, 1104 00:57:00,770 --> 00:57:03,030 we offered to develop a DNA profile 1105 00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:05,830 to get a few more clues about who this person might have been. 1106 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,800 Othram is private. 1107 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,500 My understanding, this particular DNA profile testing 1108 00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:15,700 would cost $5,000. 1109 00:57:15,700 --> 00:57:17,530 The police department doesn't have funding for this. 1110 00:57:17,530 --> 00:57:19,330 This is not something that cities 1111 00:57:19,330 --> 00:57:20,700 and municipalities have funding for. 1112 00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:22,530 You know, we thought it over and we figured 1113 00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:24,700 there's enough people that are really interested, 1114 00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:26,900 uh, in who this guy was and then trying to help him 1115 00:57:26,900 --> 00:57:28,030 get back to family. 1116 00:57:28,030 --> 00:57:31,470 I think it's a little unorthodox to recommend 1117 00:57:31,470 --> 00:57:35,030 crowdfunding a case, but, uh, but we threw it out there. 1118 00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:36,870 And I gave an outstanding yes. 1119 00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:38,870 You want us to fundraise for this? We can do that. 1120 00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:40,730 Like, that's something tangible we can do. 1121 00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:43,470 It ain't my money and it's a tool I can use 1122 00:57:43,470 --> 00:57:46,170 to solve a crime, it's worth it. 1123 00:57:48,830 --> 00:57:50,430 [Natasha] They quickly built a website 1124 00:57:50,430 --> 00:57:51,970 for people to be able to donate. 1125 00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:55,270 This all happened so fast. 1126 00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:57,430 Everyone within the group was really caught up 1127 00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:58,500 in this, like, energy. 1128 00:57:58,500 --> 00:57:59,900 We're really doing this. 1129 00:58:01,100 --> 00:58:03,370 And I believe it was eight days later, 1130 00:58:03,370 --> 00:58:05,230 we had $5,000 raised. 1131 00:58:06,170 --> 00:58:08,730 And the energy was out the roof, 1132 00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:12,830 like celebratory posts and people popping champagne 1133 00:58:12,830 --> 00:58:15,030 and all this type of thing on the group. 1134 00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:21,230 And so, they sent us the skeletal remains and we got started. 1135 00:58:23,530 --> 00:58:25,300 [Nick] I thought Othram will solve it. 1136 00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:27,570 Finally, there's going to be a solution. 1137 00:58:27,570 --> 00:58:31,270 At the same time, we were getting outside negativity, 1138 00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:33,830 like there were haters who were hating on the process. 1139 00:58:33,830 --> 00:58:36,800 No, I didn't care what they did, honestly. 1140 00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,670 Um, yeah. 1141 00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:44,200 And then, we had to wait for the DNA to run. 1142 00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:47,830 It takes Othram about six to eight weeks 1143 00:58:47,830 --> 00:58:48,900 to create a profile. 1144 00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:54,130 [Natasha] It became this intense waiting game. 1145 00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:58,230 That's when everyone got really, really stir crazy. 1146 00:59:00,330 --> 00:59:03,970 Christie's group post would be created saying like, 1147 00:59:03,970 --> 00:59:06,670 "Power-hungry Natasha is doing this 1148 00:59:06,670 --> 00:59:09,370 or Natasha and all of her minions are doing that. 1149 00:59:12,270 --> 00:59:15,100 She was feeding this, "You've all been led into a trap. 1150 00:59:15,100 --> 00:59:17,370 They took your money and they're not gonna deliver." 1151 00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:20,730 There was a public shaming of me 1152 00:59:20,730 --> 00:59:23,630 where Christie tells people publicly that I'm an idiot 1153 00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:25,070 and I don't know what I'm doing. 1154 00:59:26,330 --> 00:59:28,900 People saying like, "Oh, this cow who, like, 1155 00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:31,270 is trying to do this so that she can be famous," 1156 00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:34,400 or, you know, that I'm in love with Mostly Harmless. 1157 00:59:36,330 --> 00:59:38,430 Then some horrible things were said to me 1158 00:59:38,430 --> 00:59:39,930 through private message. 1159 00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:49,170 I got a message saying that Christie Harris knew 1160 00:59:49,170 --> 00:59:51,700 what she was doing and I didn't know anything 1161 00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:53,800 and, um, that I should kill myself 1162 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,530 so that the case could get solved. 1163 00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,870 [sighs] 1164 01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:06,370 And that hurt really bad. 1165 01:00:08,430 --> 01:00:11,430 Okay. There you go. There you go. 1166 01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:13,970 I've dealt with suicidal ideation throughout my life, 1167 01:00:13,970 --> 01:00:15,870 actually since I was a young child. 1168 01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:20,130 You wanna think you're doing something good for this person, 1169 01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:22,430 you wanna think you're doing something great. 1170 01:00:24,170 --> 01:00:26,230 And I tried to pull back actually 1171 01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:28,900 from the case a little bit, but I'm too... 1172 01:00:28,900 --> 01:00:30,800 I'm too hardheaded for my own good. 1173 01:00:31,970 --> 01:00:33,530 I wanted to see this through. 1174 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:35,500 And then all of a sudden, 1175 01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:36,800 there's this message 1176 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,930 of Christie Harris has solved the case. 1177 01:00:38,930 --> 01:00:42,570 Christie Harris has figured out who Mostly Harmless is. 1178 01:00:44,430 --> 01:00:47,530 [Christie] I was hoping that I would beat the science. 1179 01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:53,770 I have thought posting him in a lost loves forum 1180 01:00:53,770 --> 01:00:55,100 wasn't a bad idea. 1181 01:00:58,830 --> 01:01:01,830 And we happened to get a nibble from someone. 1182 01:01:03,270 --> 01:01:06,570 She gave me the name of Ronald Newman. 1183 01:01:06,570 --> 01:01:10,370 The story I was told was that Ronald Newman 1184 01:01:10,370 --> 01:01:14,270 had been disowned by his family because he was gay. 1185 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,400 When I opened the email with the picture in it, 1186 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,100 I looked at it and I stared at it. 1187 01:01:23,930 --> 01:01:25,300 It looked like him. 1188 01:01:25,300 --> 01:01:27,200 It looked like Mostly Harmless. 1189 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,870 Christie Harris called me very convinced that it was this particular person. 1190 01:01:31,870 --> 01:01:33,870 Like, almost like talking in hushed tones. 1191 01:01:33,870 --> 01:01:35,030 She said, "I know who he is. 1192 01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:36,700 I know who Mostly Harmless is." 1193 01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:38,030 I'm like, "Okay, great. 1194 01:01:38,030 --> 01:01:39,430 What can you tell me?" 1195 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,400 So this is the picture that Christie has sent to everyone 1196 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,500 to prove that Ronald Newman is Mostly Harmless. 1197 01:01:54,430 --> 01:01:56,000 This is the picture... 1198 01:01:58,870 --> 01:02:01,770 who draws a beard on a yearbook photo 1199 01:02:01,770 --> 01:02:04,330 to prove someone is someone that they're not. 1200 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,200 It certainly was... It was odd, I think, to see it. 1201 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,100 But I said, "Okay. All right. I will... 1202 01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:15,070 I will look into it and I will call you back." 1203 01:02:15,070 --> 01:02:18,100 And Mr. Newman, he ended up calling me. 1204 01:02:18,100 --> 01:02:20,730 So... And talking to me, and he was very confused, 1205 01:02:20,730 --> 01:02:22,570 obviously, as to why I was looking for him 1206 01:02:22,570 --> 01:02:24,000 and wondering if he was missing. 1207 01:02:26,830 --> 01:02:28,000 [sighs] 1208 01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:29,900 Hang on. 1209 01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:41,730 It's that moment, oh, damn it. 1210 01:02:45,100 --> 01:02:47,100 I thought it was over. 1211 01:02:48,330 --> 01:02:50,030 I felt like a joke. 1212 01:02:50,030 --> 01:02:52,730 I was afraid I was gonna look like an idiot. 1213 01:02:53,930 --> 01:02:56,730 Misidentifications happen every day. 1214 01:02:56,730 --> 01:02:59,500 Law enforcement misidentifies people. 1215 01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:02,330 But I was trashed. 1216 01:03:04,670 --> 01:03:06,600 Have you had someone go, 1217 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,000 "You're a fucking stupid idiot. 1218 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,070 You've made yourself look stupid," 1219 01:03:11,070 --> 01:03:12,900 and "Go kill yourself." 1220 01:03:13,570 --> 01:03:16,300 I was so done. 1221 01:03:16,300 --> 01:03:19,000 I had been called so many names. 1222 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,300 I couldn't see straight. 1223 01:03:22,570 --> 01:03:23,900 I was done. 1224 01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:30,630 [Nick] You get pulled in, you get excited, 1225 01:03:30,630 --> 01:03:32,770 and you wanna solve it so much, 1226 01:03:32,770 --> 01:03:35,070 you know, you can go right through that stop sign. 1227 01:03:36,170 --> 01:03:37,430 People are drawn to this. 1228 01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:39,470 People want to read this story. 1229 01:03:39,470 --> 01:03:41,200 So at some point I thought, "You know what? 1230 01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,730 I'm just gonna write the story and let's just run it." 1231 01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:48,830 The presidential election was coming. 1232 01:03:48,830 --> 01:03:51,700 And I wanted a break from the politics 1233 01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:54,330 for at least a couple of hours. 1234 01:03:56,130 --> 01:03:58,000 It was wonderful to be able to work on something 1235 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,270 where it wasn't team blue and team red. 1236 01:04:00,270 --> 01:04:02,470 All of these different Americans 1237 01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:03,970 from all of these different states, 1238 01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:05,630 all of these different backgrounds 1239 01:04:05,630 --> 01:04:08,470 were using the internet and using technology 1240 01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:10,570 to do something good. 1241 01:04:11,870 --> 01:04:13,630 And then, you know, the story goes live. 1242 01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:16,370 And then it went banana cakes. 1243 01:04:18,030 --> 01:04:20,170 And suddenly it was, you know, massively 1244 01:04:20,170 --> 01:04:22,630 the most red thing we'd had in a while. 1245 01:04:24,330 --> 01:04:26,730 [Kristen] Over a million people viewed the article 1246 01:04:26,730 --> 01:04:28,500 and the group blew up. 1247 01:04:28,500 --> 01:04:31,200 Literally thousands of people joined the group 1248 01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,530 in just a short period of days. 1249 01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:38,700 The assumption was if he really did work in tech, 1250 01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:41,400 someone who worked with him or knew him will read WIRED 1251 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,370 and we'll figure out who he was. 1252 01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:44,870 After that story ran 1253 01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:47,870 and it became this big viral hit, 1254 01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:49,130 and had more than a million readers, 1255 01:04:49,130 --> 01:04:50,330 a million and a half readers, 1256 01:04:50,330 --> 01:04:51,770 then I was kind of stunned 1257 01:04:51,770 --> 01:04:53,300 that his identity wasn't found. 1258 01:04:55,700 --> 01:04:57,870 It showed that his act of disappearing 1259 01:04:57,870 --> 01:04:59,870 was even more deliberate, 1260 01:04:59,870 --> 01:05:03,430 carefully crafted, and effective than I had thought. 1261 01:05:04,770 --> 01:05:07,970 It's hard to disappear and create an identity 1262 01:05:07,970 --> 01:05:10,630 that 100 people who meet you can't figure out, right? 1263 01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:12,970 It's somewhat harder to create an identity 1264 01:05:12,970 --> 01:05:15,130 that 1,000 people hunting on Facebook 1265 01:05:15,130 --> 01:05:16,400 can't figure out. 1266 01:05:17,170 --> 01:05:18,970 But how on earth 1267 01:05:18,970 --> 01:05:21,130 can a million people read a story in WIRED 1268 01:05:21,130 --> 01:05:24,970 full of photographs about a guy who's probably 1269 01:05:24,970 --> 01:05:26,300 in the WIRED community 1270 01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:27,870 fairly closely 1271 01:05:27,870 --> 01:05:30,370 and not find the guy? 1272 01:05:33,830 --> 01:05:35,430 [Kristen] I don't know what you're capable of hiding 1273 01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:36,800 or not hiding on the internet, 1274 01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,470 but I can tell you that if there's DNA, um, 1275 01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:42,570 we can identify you. 1276 01:05:45,330 --> 01:05:48,000 [David M] When you have a person that's unidentified 1277 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,570 and you know their DNA markers 1278 01:05:49,570 --> 01:05:52,600 and you can kind of cluster them around known populations 1279 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,300 of people that have a similar set of markers, 1280 01:05:56,030 --> 01:05:57,670 that gives you a clue as to where 1281 01:05:57,670 --> 01:05:59,530 this unidentified person is from. 1282 01:06:00,370 --> 01:06:01,830 In this case, 1283 01:06:01,830 --> 01:06:03,700 we had run the laboratory work, 1284 01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:05,430 did the DNA testing and the research. 1285 01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:07,700 And, um, we had a update. 1286 01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:12,030 We have a couple really good leads. 1287 01:06:12,030 --> 01:06:14,130 We were able to build a really great profile. 1288 01:06:14,130 --> 01:06:15,600 And what I can tell you 1289 01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,770 is that there are a good number of matches 1290 01:06:17,770 --> 01:06:19,970 that tie us back to Louisiana. 1291 01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:29,600 [Natasha] Six thousand people watched the Facebook Live. 1292 01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,600 And people are over the moon excited. 1293 01:06:36,030 --> 01:06:37,570 We now know 1294 01:06:37,570 --> 01:06:39,600 that he actually does have family in South Louisiana. 1295 01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:42,100 The verification was what we needed 1296 01:06:42,100 --> 01:06:44,270 to get people to take action. 1297 01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,170 [Christie] The DNA results were released 1298 01:06:48,170 --> 01:06:50,930 in a Facebook Live in Natasha's group, 1299 01:06:50,930 --> 01:06:53,030 which I had no access to. 1300 01:06:54,070 --> 01:06:57,200 I had a group member who came and told me. 1301 01:06:58,570 --> 01:07:00,730 And then I go, I can't let this go. 1302 01:07:00,730 --> 01:07:01,830 I can't. 1303 01:07:01,830 --> 01:07:03,400 I won't let this go. 1304 01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,900 I walked back into my group and I go, 1305 01:07:04,900 --> 01:07:06,130 "Do you wanna pick up the case 1306 01:07:06,130 --> 01:07:07,500 of Mostly Harmless again?" 1307 01:07:08,830 --> 01:07:10,170 All I got was yes. 1308 01:07:11,630 --> 01:07:14,170 And I was back in it again. 1309 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,770 Anything related to Louisiana, 1310 01:07:17,770 --> 01:07:19,600 we were going to flood it. 1311 01:07:22,930 --> 01:07:25,930 We put a lot of flyers out towards news stations 1312 01:07:25,930 --> 01:07:28,930 and their missing persons pages, things like that 1313 01:07:28,930 --> 01:07:30,800 so they can get the information out 1314 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,670 to the people that may have known him. 1315 01:07:32,670 --> 01:07:35,130 [man] Why did Mostly Harmless start hiking? 1316 01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:36,970 I started running Facebook ads 1317 01:07:36,970 --> 01:07:38,330 for my WIRED story, 1318 01:07:38,330 --> 01:07:41,170 targeted at people in Louisiana. 1319 01:07:41,170 --> 01:07:43,500 [Natasha] All of a sudden, every single Facebook group 1320 01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:46,770 related to South Louisiana in any way, shape, or form 1321 01:07:46,770 --> 01:07:48,700 was bombarded. 1322 01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:50,830 [notification dings] 1323 01:07:51,830 --> 01:07:52,900 [Christie] Enough. 1324 01:07:53,830 --> 01:07:55,070 This has to end. 1325 01:07:57,430 --> 01:08:02,330 And then December 16th, 2020, 1326 01:08:02,330 --> 01:08:04,200 picked up my phone 1327 01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:05,730 and I go over to the post 1328 01:08:05,730 --> 01:08:07,630 in the group Missing in Louisiana. 1329 01:08:08,830 --> 01:08:11,970 There was a comment there that said... 1330 01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:20,470 It said, "Christie, I know who this is. 1331 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:22,870 I know this story 1332 01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:24,670 and I'm going to email you right now." 1333 01:08:24,670 --> 01:08:26,970 And I'm like, "What?" 1334 01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:29,170 And there it was. 1335 01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,700 It says, 1336 01:08:31,700 --> 01:08:34,000 "Christie, his name is Vance Rodriguez. 1337 01:08:35,070 --> 01:08:37,970 My husband worked with him in Shoppers Choice." 1338 01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,770 And there you see... 1339 01:08:41,870 --> 01:08:43,270 a picture. 1340 01:08:48,300 --> 01:08:50,000 I looked at his eyes and I knew... 1341 01:08:52,030 --> 01:08:53,100 it was him. 1342 01:09:03,970 --> 01:09:06,130 [Natasha] I can see it with my own eyes, 1343 01:09:06,130 --> 01:09:08,600 but I still... My brain doesn't truly believe 1344 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:09,570 that it's the case. 1345 01:09:14,100 --> 01:09:15,170 [Nick] Yeah. 1346 01:09:15,170 --> 01:09:16,370 Wow. 1347 01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:20,530 Message just came in. This is him. 1348 01:09:21,870 --> 01:09:22,900 Poor guy. 1349 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,000 And I was like, "Oh, my gosh. I did it." 1350 01:09:28,130 --> 01:09:29,670 [sobs] 1351 01:09:29,670 --> 01:09:30,970 So there were two people 1352 01:09:30,970 --> 01:09:32,130 who basically hit on the same day. 1353 01:09:32,130 --> 01:09:34,630 A person he had worked with and a former roommate. 1354 01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:38,300 I screenshot it and sent it to law enforcement 1355 01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:40,630 with an email that said, "I think we got him." 1356 01:09:42,500 --> 01:09:44,200 [keyboard clicking] 1357 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,230 [Kristin] Heard from multiple people 1358 01:09:46,230 --> 01:09:47,870 that it was him. 1359 01:09:47,870 --> 01:09:49,700 It was a collective effort 1360 01:09:49,700 --> 01:09:52,730 of thousands of people to solve this case. 1361 01:09:54,430 --> 01:09:56,770 [David H] Kristin located contact information 1362 01:09:56,770 --> 01:09:59,900 for the family of Vance Rodriguez. 1363 01:09:59,900 --> 01:10:03,530 And we closed the office door and we just called the family. 1364 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:05,830 [phone rings] 1365 01:10:07,770 --> 01:10:10,100 [Kristin] There seemed to be some disbelief, 1366 01:10:10,100 --> 01:10:11,730 just kind of shock. 1367 01:10:11,730 --> 01:10:13,870 We explained the situation to them. 1368 01:10:13,870 --> 01:10:17,230 They responded that they in fact did have a son 1369 01:10:17,230 --> 01:10:19,570 by the name of Vance Rodriguez. 1370 01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:22,270 They didn't know he was missing. 1371 01:10:22,270 --> 01:10:24,800 They thought he had moved to New York, 1372 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,630 and they had no contact with him for several years. 1373 01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,000 [Natasha] He was telling the truth. 1374 01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,230 He told people that he had originally lived 1375 01:10:32,230 --> 01:10:35,230 in Baton Rouge and was from Louisiana, 1376 01:10:35,230 --> 01:10:36,900 um, that he worked in tech. 1377 01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:39,200 He told a lot of things about himself. 1378 01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:44,630 [Nick] I thought he was maybe 30 at the most, 1379 01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:46,630 and it turns out he was 41. 1380 01:10:49,970 --> 01:10:55,700 Your hope as a journalist is that when we figured out his name, 1381 01:10:55,700 --> 01:11:01,300 you would find out some incredible redemptive story. 1382 01:11:01,300 --> 01:11:03,500 But when we found out his name, 1383 01:11:03,500 --> 01:11:05,800 we didn't realize 1384 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:07,870 that all the things that we would learn about Vance. 1385 01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:15,200 I immediately went into full-on reporter mode. 1386 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,800 I did public record search of where Vance Rodriguez 1387 01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,730 of that age range had lived and found his building. 1388 01:11:23,870 --> 01:11:25,570 Spoke to the landlord of the building. 1389 01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:28,130 He had paid six months of rent. 1390 01:11:28,130 --> 01:11:29,870 He had left his passport, his wallet, 1391 01:11:29,870 --> 01:11:32,100 and everything inside of his old apartment. 1392 01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:35,670 It's absolutely, uh, I'm walking away from my life. 1393 01:11:35,670 --> 01:11:37,300 I'm closing the door on my life, 1394 01:11:37,300 --> 01:11:40,470 locking it and walking away from my life. 1395 01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:46,370 I found a woman who appeared to have lived in the same building. 1396 01:11:48,700 --> 01:11:50,270 Turned out it was his girlfriend. 1397 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,070 They had broken up. 1398 01:11:54,330 --> 01:11:58,300 I learned that he had been abusive in ways 1399 01:11:59,700 --> 01:12:01,200 that I didn't probe on. 1400 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,130 I don't know exactly the contours of, 1401 01:12:03,130 --> 01:12:05,270 but he seemed like... 1402 01:12:05,270 --> 01:12:08,430 a bad, bad man. 1403 01:12:11,770 --> 01:12:14,030 It seems like there was trouble with women 1404 01:12:14,030 --> 01:12:15,700 for a long time. 1405 01:12:15,700 --> 01:12:17,970 There were at least three women who have come forward 1406 01:12:17,970 --> 01:12:20,600 and said that they were abused by him. 1407 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,430 [Nick] There's another girlfriend from Louisiana, 1408 01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:25,030 his mother posts on Facebook 1409 01:12:25,030 --> 01:12:27,070 that, you know, he was so cruel 1410 01:12:27,070 --> 01:12:28,600 that he broke her daughter. 1411 01:12:30,370 --> 01:12:32,100 [Brandon] Yeah. I don't... I don't really know 1412 01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:33,470 what to say about these articles. 1413 01:12:33,470 --> 01:12:34,870 You know, it's... 1414 01:12:36,370 --> 01:12:38,930 a lot of information to digest. 1415 01:12:38,930 --> 01:12:42,200 Uh, it was a quote from his ex. 1416 01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,100 She wrote on a Facebook page, 1417 01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:46,600 "Apartment 950 a month, 1418 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,130 bill's 300 a month, 1419 01:12:49,130 --> 01:12:51,270 standing up to the monster that beat you up 1420 01:12:51,270 --> 01:12:53,970 emotionally and physically for five years. 1421 01:12:53,970 --> 01:12:55,170 Priceless." 1422 01:12:56,330 --> 01:12:59,770 He seemed sincere and he seemed... 1423 01:12:59,770 --> 01:13:01,370 compassionate to me. 1424 01:13:02,430 --> 01:13:05,200 Like, he understood, you know. 1425 01:13:09,170 --> 01:13:11,830 But he was abusive it seems. 1426 01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:15,200 And that was certainly very shocking to me. 1427 01:13:16,430 --> 01:13:18,430 100% unacceptable. 1428 01:13:18,430 --> 01:13:20,930 You can't... You can't hit anybody. 1429 01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:22,600 Women, men, nobody gets hit. 1430 01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:27,000 Nobody gets hit or abused or hurt or whatever. 1431 01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:29,170 It doesn't happen or it shouldn't happen. 1432 01:13:29,170 --> 01:13:32,270 Being in a relationship similar to what was described 1433 01:13:32,270 --> 01:13:34,800 about Mostly Harmless, 1434 01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,700 I hated to know that he was an abusive person. 1435 01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:40,130 It's not my job to judge 1436 01:13:40,130 --> 01:13:41,600 whether he abused those women or not. 1437 01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:42,930 I don't know. 1438 01:13:42,930 --> 01:13:44,700 I was shocked and appalled 1439 01:13:44,700 --> 01:13:46,400 by the number of women 1440 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,500 who just inherently did not believe 1441 01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:51,000 his former girlfriends. 1442 01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,400 Vance was... Vance was a bad guy. 1443 01:13:55,370 --> 01:13:56,770 I believe the women that say 1444 01:13:56,770 --> 01:13:58,500 that he did the abusive things. 1445 01:13:58,500 --> 01:13:59,400 Yes. 1446 01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:03,070 Did I project who I wanted him to be? 1447 01:14:03,070 --> 01:14:04,330 Yeah, probably a little 1448 01:14:04,330 --> 01:14:06,800 because I always see the best in people. 1449 01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:12,300 [Nick] We drew this image of this guy 1450 01:14:12,300 --> 01:14:16,230 who was kind of a lost soul. 1451 01:14:16,230 --> 01:14:20,630 [MJ] The group made him into some kind of a handsome hero. 1452 01:14:22,300 --> 01:14:25,130 [Christie] He just had this familiar face to him. 1453 01:14:25,130 --> 01:14:28,370 And I guess people just made it personal. 1454 01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:32,230 People want to project who they want someone to be. 1455 01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:35,700 You don't know this guy. 1456 01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:38,530 You only know the pictures that you have seen. 1457 01:14:38,530 --> 01:14:40,370 You only know the stories you've heard. 1458 01:14:40,370 --> 01:14:42,530 You've never met this guy. 1459 01:14:42,530 --> 01:14:46,170 I tried to come up with my own mental composite 1460 01:14:46,170 --> 01:14:48,170 of who is this man? 1461 01:14:48,170 --> 01:14:49,770 What I knew about him already 1462 01:14:49,770 --> 01:14:52,330 and what I was just finding out about his past. 1463 01:14:52,330 --> 01:14:53,700 I guess there was more to him, 1464 01:14:53,700 --> 01:14:55,770 a dark side I didn't know about. 1465 01:14:55,770 --> 01:14:57,500 It was a gut punch. 1466 01:14:57,500 --> 01:14:58,900 Like, honestly, 1467 01:14:58,900 --> 01:15:02,700 I stopped wanting to know a lot more about who he was. 1468 01:15:02,700 --> 01:15:06,100 The great mystery is why did no one find him? 1469 01:15:06,100 --> 01:15:07,930 And part of it is 'cause he did a really good job 1470 01:15:07,930 --> 01:15:09,200 of erasing his tracks. 1471 01:15:09,970 --> 01:15:11,170 And the sad part of it 1472 01:15:11,170 --> 01:15:13,570 is because no one was looking for him 1473 01:15:13,570 --> 01:15:14,900 'cause he was an asshole. 1474 01:15:19,430 --> 01:15:20,830 One of the great questions 1475 01:15:20,830 --> 01:15:22,030 was why this guy had been known 1476 01:15:22,030 --> 01:15:23,730 as Mostly Harmless out on the trail. 1477 01:15:23,730 --> 01:15:26,430 And once Vance's name was discovered, 1478 01:15:26,430 --> 01:15:29,070 we realized that his Screeps username was vaejor, 1479 01:15:29,070 --> 01:15:33,070 which is a combination of Vance John Rodriguez. 1480 01:15:34,130 --> 01:15:36,230 [Natasha] We had assumed all along 1481 01:15:36,230 --> 01:15:38,400 that he had gotten the trail name 1482 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:40,270 Mostly Harmless in Georgia. 1483 01:15:40,270 --> 01:15:42,200 But here we are 1484 01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:44,100 on Screeps, on the Screeps Slack, 1485 01:15:44,100 --> 01:15:47,170 and he's saying, "I'm mostly harmless." 1486 01:15:50,470 --> 01:15:52,800 And this is January, 2017 1487 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,000 shortly before he started out on his hike. 1488 01:15:55,900 --> 01:15:57,370 And there's a book called Mostly Harmless, 1489 01:15:57,370 --> 01:16:00,370 that's a part of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 1490 01:16:04,430 --> 01:16:05,770 [Nick] I think he chose the name. 1491 01:16:05,770 --> 01:16:09,670 It may have just been that he read the book. 1492 01:16:09,670 --> 01:16:11,130 He liked the book. 1493 01:16:11,130 --> 01:16:13,230 He recognized that Mostly Harmless 1494 01:16:13,230 --> 01:16:15,600 is a pretty great phrase. 1495 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,870 It's because if you're mostly harmless, 1496 01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:20,030 you're also partly harmful. 1497 01:16:20,030 --> 01:16:23,100 It suggests someone who knew something about his past 1498 01:16:23,100 --> 01:16:24,830 and was trying to move away from it, 1499 01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:27,270 but was also aware of it. 1500 01:16:34,470 --> 01:16:36,300 [MJ] I've talked to people who are abused. 1501 01:16:36,300 --> 01:16:38,730 If someone in your family abuses somebody 1502 01:16:38,730 --> 01:16:40,330 and it's not resolved, 1503 01:16:40,330 --> 01:16:42,470 you end up doing some abuse yourself. 1504 01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:45,670 [Nick] I never spoke with his parents. 1505 01:16:45,670 --> 01:16:47,600 I sent several messages to his sister 1506 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,070 after I knew that she had been notified by the police. 1507 01:16:51,170 --> 01:16:52,730 And she said, she just didn't wanna talk 1508 01:16:52,730 --> 01:16:54,100 and the family wouldn't talk. 1509 01:16:55,830 --> 01:16:56,900 All of his friends knew 1510 01:16:56,900 --> 01:16:58,200 that he had a terrible relationship 1511 01:16:58,200 --> 01:16:59,530 with his family. 1512 01:16:59,530 --> 01:17:03,400 He spoke of abuse from his father, 1513 01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,170 though they didn't know what kind of abuse. 1514 01:17:05,900 --> 01:17:07,730 I learned from court records, 1515 01:17:07,730 --> 01:17:10,730 he had been legally emancipated from his family 1516 01:17:10,730 --> 01:17:11,900 at age 17. 1517 01:17:11,900 --> 01:17:13,600 You become... 1518 01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,000 independent when you're 18, 1519 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,330 like... So what exactly has to happen to have yourself 1520 01:17:17,330 --> 01:17:21,230 want to be emancipated from your parents at that age? 1521 01:17:21,230 --> 01:17:23,600 I never talked to anybody who knew the answer to that. 1522 01:17:25,270 --> 01:17:27,970 [Natasha] Talking to the one friend from college 1523 01:17:27,970 --> 01:17:29,870 who knew anything about the family, 1524 01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:32,230 his mental health was pretty much 1525 01:17:32,230 --> 01:17:34,600 a dominant part of his life. 1526 01:17:35,470 --> 01:17:37,070 He would have these moments 1527 01:17:37,070 --> 01:17:39,530 where he would just stop interacting with people. 1528 01:17:39,530 --> 01:17:41,930 He would go to his room, he'd go to other places, 1529 01:17:41,930 --> 01:17:44,870 um, and he would stop eating. He'd stop showering. 1530 01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:46,530 He would stop caring for him himself, 1531 01:17:46,530 --> 01:17:49,570 um, for days, weeks, and even months. 1532 01:17:49,570 --> 01:17:51,930 [Nick] The phrase that made the most sense was outages 1533 01:17:51,930 --> 01:17:54,430 where he would just shut down. 1534 01:17:56,130 --> 01:17:58,570 [Natasha] And then, his friend Shelly, 1535 01:17:58,570 --> 01:18:00,770 she told me when he was a teenager, 1536 01:18:00,770 --> 01:18:03,270 he had gone into a field 1537 01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:05,600 and shot himself in the stomach. 1538 01:18:06,830 --> 01:18:08,470 While he was laying there bleeding, 1539 01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:09,970 he changed his mind 1540 01:18:09,970 --> 01:18:12,200 and was able to drag himself 1541 01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,030 out of the field and go get help. 1542 01:18:16,870 --> 01:18:18,470 The scar was not cancer. 1543 01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:20,930 It was not from any disease. 1544 01:18:20,930 --> 01:18:22,670 The scar was from a trauma. 1545 01:18:22,670 --> 01:18:24,170 It was from a gunshot wound. 1546 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:28,130 My understanding was that 1547 01:18:28,130 --> 01:18:32,170 his parents wanted to get him mental health assistance 1548 01:18:32,170 --> 01:18:33,800 after his suicide attempt, 1549 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,200 and that was the reason he no longer wanted 1550 01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:37,670 to have a relationship with his family. 1551 01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:43,270 It's very possible this fist fight that we hear about 1552 01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:46,130 had to do with wanting to get their son assistance, 1553 01:18:46,130 --> 01:18:47,670 wanting to get him help. 1554 01:18:47,670 --> 01:18:49,870 Um, I can only assume 1555 01:18:49,870 --> 01:18:51,330 that his parents cared about him. 1556 01:18:56,730 --> 01:18:57,930 [MJ] At the beginning I thought, 1557 01:18:57,930 --> 01:19:00,100 "Oh, no, he wouldn't have committed suicide." 1558 01:19:00,100 --> 01:19:02,330 Sort of, like, that's not the image I had of him. 1559 01:19:02,330 --> 01:19:04,730 When I read that he had tried it when he was 16 1560 01:19:04,730 --> 01:19:08,300 and the... And the depression. I said, "No, he did." 1561 01:19:08,300 --> 01:19:10,030 I really didn't think it was suicide. 1562 01:19:10,030 --> 01:19:11,800 I never really did, to be honest. 1563 01:19:14,330 --> 01:19:18,700 In my opinion, he took to one of his outages 1564 01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:20,830 and it just went too far. 1565 01:19:22,730 --> 01:19:24,500 [Brandon] Maybe he starved himself. 1566 01:19:25,230 --> 01:19:26,900 It seems like a terrible way to go, 1567 01:19:26,900 --> 01:19:29,870 but I mean, I don't know. 1568 01:19:29,870 --> 01:19:31,530 I don't know why he died. 1569 01:19:31,530 --> 01:19:34,570 Maybe the whole trip was about, uh, penance. 1570 01:19:34,570 --> 01:19:37,170 You know, paying back for the stuff I had done. 1571 01:19:37,170 --> 01:19:38,230 I need to suffer. 1572 01:19:39,070 --> 01:19:40,930 If I kill myself, is it enough? 1573 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:43,600 [Natasha] I think he killed himself. 1574 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,970 I think he intentionally starved himself to death. 1575 01:19:49,330 --> 01:19:52,830 The book Mostly Harmless by Douglas Adams 1576 01:19:52,830 --> 01:19:55,000 starts to come back up in your mind. 1577 01:19:56,500 --> 01:19:57,770 [Nick] It's one in a series 1578 01:19:57,770 --> 01:20:00,100 called The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, 1579 01:20:00,100 --> 01:20:02,700 and the main character is traveling around the galaxy, 1580 01:20:02,700 --> 01:20:06,500 making an atlas for other travelers. 1581 01:20:06,500 --> 01:20:09,230 [Natasha] The book ends with the destruction of the world. 1582 01:20:09,230 --> 01:20:12,370 The main characters are kind of coming to their peace 1583 01:20:12,370 --> 01:20:16,000 with the imminent end of life as they know it. 1584 01:20:18,270 --> 01:20:20,200 [Nick] "This is not your home," said, Trilian Steel, 1585 01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:21,900 keeping her voice calm. "You don't have one. 1586 01:20:21,900 --> 01:20:23,270 None of us has one. 1587 01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:25,970 Hardly anybody has one anymore. 1588 01:20:25,970 --> 01:20:28,030 They don't even have any memory of who they are 1589 01:20:28,030 --> 01:20:29,230 and what they're for." 1590 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,400 [Kelly] " A tremendous feeling of peace came over him. 1591 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,300 He knew that it lasts for once and forever. 1592 01:20:36,300 --> 01:20:38,330 It was now all finally over." 1593 01:20:41,170 --> 01:20:43,700 [Christie] It feels a little bit like 1594 01:20:43,700 --> 01:20:47,030 his trail name was his suicide note 1595 01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:48,330 to a certain degree. 1596 01:20:58,500 --> 01:21:00,230 [Brandon] I feel like we could have been... 1597 01:21:00,230 --> 01:21:01,530 Could have been pals, you know, 1598 01:21:01,530 --> 01:21:03,200 and that just really stinks. 1599 01:21:04,270 --> 01:21:06,930 You know, someone who... 1600 01:21:06,930 --> 01:21:09,130 offered me so much compassion and kindness. 1601 01:21:10,770 --> 01:21:12,900 Hey Bennett, can you rejoin the group, please? 1602 01:21:12,900 --> 01:21:16,370 [Bennett speaking] 1603 01:21:16,370 --> 01:21:18,770 What kind of story? A true story? 1604 01:21:18,770 --> 01:21:22,070 It almost feels like a... Like a parallel me 1605 01:21:22,070 --> 01:21:25,900 that just happened to go in a different direction. 1606 01:21:25,900 --> 01:21:27,700 Go, go, go, go, go. 1607 01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:31,100 I don't think Denim got the support he needed 1608 01:21:31,100 --> 01:21:32,330 to really heal. 1609 01:21:34,270 --> 01:21:36,430 I think he felt really isolated 1610 01:21:36,430 --> 01:21:39,800 and felt like no one wanted him around. 1611 01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:45,830 So, I'm gonna play a song that is called, 1612 01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:48,570 "I've been Thinkin'" from my band, Bombardier. 1613 01:21:48,570 --> 01:21:53,600 And, uh, it's about Denim 1614 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:55,430 and the time I spent with him 1615 01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:58,000 and also about myself 1616 01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,900 and how I relate to him. 1617 01:22:02,900 --> 01:22:04,970 [guitar plays] 1618 01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:13,000 He was a person that died too soon, 1619 01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,030 you know, and it's sad to see. 1620 01:22:15,030 --> 01:22:16,300 He had a lot to offer. 1621 01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,270 ♪ I've been thinkin' ♪ 1622 01:22:20,270 --> 01:22:24,370 ♪ About running away again ♪ 1623 01:22:24,370 --> 01:22:27,930 ♪ About calling off My friends ♪ 1624 01:22:27,930 --> 01:22:31,530 ♪ Just to tell 'em That I'm never coming back ♪ 1625 01:22:34,470 --> 01:22:36,570 [Nick] There is Mostly Harmless. 1626 01:22:36,570 --> 01:22:38,870 And then there's Vance Rodriguez, right? 1627 01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:40,700 Who exists until the moment 1628 01:22:40,700 --> 01:22:42,400 he goes into Harriman State Park. 1629 01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:44,930 And Mostly Harmless is a compelling character 1630 01:22:44,930 --> 01:22:46,930 even if Vance Rodriguez is less so. 1631 01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:49,600 ♪ I've been thinking... ♪ 1632 01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,100 [man] Today, I'm pleased to announce 1633 01:22:51,100 --> 01:22:53,170 that after more than two years, 1634 01:22:53,170 --> 01:22:56,830 we now know the identity of the deceased hiker 1635 01:22:56,830 --> 01:23:00,600 who went by the trail name, Mostly Harmless. 1636 01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:02,270 And the family made arrangements 1637 01:23:02,270 --> 01:23:04,400 with the medical examiner's office. 1638 01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:05,600 Vance was brought home. 1639 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,630 They had a ceremony for him. 1640 01:23:07,630 --> 01:23:12,000 [Brandon] ♪ Walk on Monday Walk on Tuesday ♪ 1641 01:23:14,030 --> 01:23:17,570 [MJ] I think I could see the real him. 1642 01:23:17,570 --> 01:23:20,330 It was the eternity that was in that moment. 1643 01:23:20,330 --> 01:23:21,700 I knew him then. 1644 01:23:21,700 --> 01:23:23,770 So I think a lot of us miss him, 1645 01:23:23,770 --> 01:23:25,470 missed the one that we knew. 1646 01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:30,270 Maybe he's looking down and laughing at all us now 1647 01:23:30,270 --> 01:23:33,430 or saying, "Oh, wow, I wish I had stayed alive. 1648 01:23:33,430 --> 01:23:35,530 These people really loved me." 1649 01:23:37,130 --> 01:23:42,100 I would encourage him to live on, I would probably say, "Hang in there, 1650 01:23:42,100 --> 01:23:44,330 um, get some help." 1651 01:23:49,270 --> 01:23:50,870 [MJ] Goodbye for now, Denim. 1652 01:23:51,430 --> 01:23:53,700 But since coincidence, 1653 01:23:53,700 --> 01:23:55,570 let us meet four times already. 1654 01:23:55,570 --> 01:23:58,770 I will look for a fifth chance encounter. 1655 01:23:58,770 --> 01:24:00,900 I believe that it's quite possible. 1656 01:24:00,900 --> 01:24:04,830 [Brandon] ♪ Walk on Monday Walk on Tuesday ♪ 1657 01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:07,900 [Natasha] Within sleuthing, there are people 1658 01:24:07,900 --> 01:24:10,770 who feel unseen and feel unheard 1659 01:24:10,770 --> 01:24:12,000 and feel invisible in the world. 1660 01:24:13,330 --> 01:24:16,900 This is a way that they can be seen 1661 01:24:16,900 --> 01:24:18,730 through these people. 1662 01:24:18,730 --> 01:24:21,170 And this is a way to get closure in your life 1663 01:24:21,170 --> 01:24:24,370 for things that you're never gonna get closure for. 1664 01:24:24,370 --> 01:24:27,900 [Brandon] ♪ Walk on Sunday What was my name? ♪ 1665 01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,230 [Natasha] I don't plan on sleuthing again, 1666 01:24:31,230 --> 01:24:33,930 like I want more real life experiences, 1667 01:24:35,630 --> 01:24:40,130 but sleuthing for this case showed me I'm unstoppable. 1668 01:24:40,130 --> 01:24:43,170 And so I'm deciding then that I was going to do this thing 1669 01:24:43,170 --> 01:24:45,130 that I've been dreaming of doing my whole life, 1670 01:24:45,130 --> 01:24:47,100 which is opening my own company 1671 01:24:48,270 --> 01:24:51,430 and bring the outdoors to everybody 1672 01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:52,930 who wants to go outside. 1673 01:24:59,170 --> 01:25:00,970 [Christie] I am glad I did not quit. 1674 01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,130 I am glad I saw this to the end. 1675 01:25:07,370 --> 01:25:08,670 I really am. 1676 01:25:10,870 --> 01:25:12,670 I think when I found him, 1677 01:25:14,100 --> 01:25:15,330 I found me... 1678 01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:21,430 and realized this is what I'm supposed to be doing. 1679 01:25:25,330 --> 01:25:27,930 And that's a very powerful thing. 1680 01:25:28,870 --> 01:25:30,970 This is what I'm supposed to be doing. 1681 01:25:59,300 --> 01:26:01,100 [laughs] 1682 01:26:01,100 --> 01:26:02,470 Oh, my God. 1683 01:26:12,730 --> 01:26:17,170 Um, now I saw that message. 1684 01:26:19,370 --> 01:26:20,830 I'm gonna tell you this. 1685 01:26:20,830 --> 01:26:22,700 I'm in front of a filming camera right now. 1686 01:26:24,500 --> 01:26:25,570 Uh... 1687 01:26:27,970 --> 01:26:29,130 What? 1688 01:26:34,970 --> 01:26:36,170 I gotta walk out. 1689 01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:39,870 [door opens] 1690 01:26:45,070 --> 01:26:46,870 We've got this story... 1691 01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,300 that Tabitha was decapitated. 1692 01:26:54,270 --> 01:26:56,230 [phone ringing] 1693 01:26:56,230 --> 01:26:57,500 Oh, God. 1694 01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:01,900 Hey, Mrs. Young. What's going on? 121116

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