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NARRATOR: On September 2nd, 1945,
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in a quiet Melbourne suburb,
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the day a young couple has been
waiting for has finally arrived.
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Their first baby is on the way.
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At the same time, half a world away,
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a thin, proud man with a wispy beard
At the same time, half a world away,
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a thin, proud man with a wispy beard
steps up to a microphone.
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The speakers crackle and hiss
as he stares out at the huge crowd
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who have gathered to hear him speak.
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While Robert Graham Perrin
comes into the world in Melbourne,
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While Robert Graham Perrin
in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh
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in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh
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proclaims the independent
in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh
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proclaims the independent
Democratic Republic of Vietnam
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proclaims the independent
with some familiar words.
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with some familiar words.
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20 years later, Robert Perrin
will fall from a helicopter
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20 years later, Robert Perrin
to his death on the jungle floor,
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to his death on the jungle floor,
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a casualty in a war
that was born on his birthday.
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About 18.5 at the time.
And joined the army.
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About 18.5 at the time.
And don't regret a day of it.
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And don't regret a day of it.
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Nothing prepared any of us
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for the conditions
that we had to work and live in.
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for the conditions
Nothing.
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Nothing.
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And we only got 50m in
and the sky fell in.
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And we only got 50m in
I was mesmerised by the flutter...
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I was mesmerised by the flutter...
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..like confetti coming down over me.
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MAN: She said, "You shouldn't have
been over there in the first place."
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MAN: She said, "You shouldn't have
And that hit me really hard.
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And that hit me really hard.
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I think
And that hit me really hard.
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I think
that's why my dad hasn't slept
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for more than three or four hours
in the last 50 years.
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('50s MUSIC PLAYS)
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Australia slowly emerged
from the horrors of World War II.
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Australia slowly emerged
from the horrors of World War II.
Short black hair
makes her look so sweet...
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Short black hair
makes her look so sweet...
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Short black hair
But as the economy recovered,
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But as the economy recovered,
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Australia came to fare better
than most.
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Until for the comfortable
majority, at least,
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Until for the comfortable
life started to feel pretty easy.
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life started to feel pretty easy.
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Come on, everybody,
clap your hands
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Come on, everybody,
Oh, you look real good
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Oh, you look real good
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We're gonna do the twist
Oh, you look real good
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We're gonna do the twist
And it looks like this...
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# We're gonna do the twist
Australia was a wonderful place.
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Australia was a wonderful place.
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As everybody says,
they were the good old days.
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Oh, it was wonderful,
the '40s and '50s.
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Had a pretty sort of
free and easy kind of life.
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Round, round get around
I get around
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Yeah, get around, round, round
I get around...
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MAN: I used to do
a lot of rabbit shooting
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and riding all over the countryside
on my bicycle.
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There was just good fun,
good mateship.
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There was just good fun,
# You know you make me want to shout
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You know you make me want to shout
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Throw my hands up and shout...
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It was so slower and quieter now,
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like, you'd live on your bicycle
and just go anywhere.
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like, you'd live on your bicycle
There was hardly any traffic.
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There was hardly any traffic.
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We just had an incredible freedom
to walk, to hitchhike,
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to adventure, to climb trees,
to swim in swamps,
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to adventure, to climb trees,
to play in creeks,
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to play in creeks,
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and to do all the sorts of things
that young kids today can't do.
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And they don't know
what they're missing out on.
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MAN: In that period,
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we still felt that we were part
of a big British family.
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We were still
part of the great Anglosphere.
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At the end of the 1940s,
Australia was led
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by a true champion
of the Anglosphere, Robert Menzies.
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NEWSREEL: From Canberra,
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First pictures of the new Australian
Cabinet just after being sworn in.
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They're seen with the
Governor-General, Mr McKell,
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at whose right sits Mr Menzies,
Prime Minister for the second time.
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He had presence, he had urbanity,
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he brought a civilising influence
to bear into Australian policy.
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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.
he brought a civilising influence
to bear into Australian policy.
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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.
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He was a pragmatist,
not a dogmatist.
The Cold War of course, was an area
in which he was on one side.
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The Cold War of course, was an area
in which he was on one side.
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But we always had faith
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that Menzies ran a sensible,
tolerant, cooperative,
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smooth Westminster system
of government.
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Menzies may have been
instinctively drawn to Britain,
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but Britain could no longer
assert itself in our region.
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MAN: Its days as a global
military power were done.
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The United Kingdom could not act
with any kind of pungency or force
MAN: Its days as a global
military power were done.
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The United Kingdom could not act
with any kind of pungency or force
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in world affairs without the support
of the Americans.
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Old European powers such as the UK
were thrown into the shade
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by the Cold War battle between
the USA and the Soviet Union.
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That didn't stop France
attempting to reassert itself
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That didn't stop France
in its former colony in Indochina.
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in its former colony in Indochina.
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Ho Chi Minh's forces,
known as the Viet Minh, resisted.
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Now, in the aftermath of war,
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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
Now, in the aftermath of war,
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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
a democratic republic,
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even though Ho Chi Minh declared
an independent Vietnam,
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an independent Vietnam,
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France does not want to give up
their colonies,
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so they start the French war
against the Viet Minh,
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the French war in Indochina.
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The Yanks are really in this
from the beginning.
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The Yanks are really in this
from the beginning.
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They'd actually backed the Viet Minh
during the Japanese occupation
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because they're fighting
against Japan as well.
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because they're fighting
against Japan as well.
They were supplying them with arms.
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They were supplying them with arms.
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But when the French come in,
they switch sides
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and they start
supporting the French.
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And by 1950, they're paying for 80%
of French war costs in Vietnam.
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The French were humbled
and ejected from Vietnam in 1954.
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But for Australia, French attempts
to retake their colony
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But for Australia, French attempts
were really none of our business.
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were really none of our business.
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It didn't impinge
on our consciousness.
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This was a matter
of a stubborn French attempt
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This was a matter
to maintain their empire
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to maintain their empire
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and nationalists attempting
to gain their independence.
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But beyond that,
we knew very little about Vietnam.
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That is, until the idea of
falling dominoes creeps into vogue.
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If we don't stop the advance
of communism in one country,
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a whole lot of other
neighbouring countries will fall.
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The falling dominoes were expected
to go all the way
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from South Vietnam
down through South East Asia
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from South Vietnam
and reach the Australian doorstep.
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and reach the Australian doorstep.
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That was the theory.
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Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. The falling of the dominoes.
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Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It was constant.
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It was constant.
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And the fear of Asia, constant.
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And the fear of Asia, constant.
At school, kids passed around
those Japanese torture books
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At school, kids passed around
those Japanese torture books
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that came out
from recollections of World War II.
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And, yeah,
there was a fear of Asia for sure.
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NEWSREEL: Active
communist fighting fronts
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have been opened up in Indochina,
Malaya and the Philippines
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have been opened up in Indochina,
where communist satellites,
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where communist satellites,
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trained and armed
by their overlords in Moscow,
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trained and armed
carry on intensive warfare.
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carry on intensive warfare.
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They carry the flag
of world revolution.
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Even now, their eyes are on
the rice fields of Indochina,
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Even now, their eyes are on
the rubber of Malaya,
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the rubber of Malaya,
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and one of the biggest prizes
the rubber of Malaya,
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and one of the biggest prizes
of all - Australia.
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DR HOBBS: The idea that Ho Chi Minh
is a communist
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DR HOBBS: The idea that Ho Chi Minh
just like Mao is a communist,
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just like Mao is a communist,
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and that they're all
going to gang up on us
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and that they're all
and fall down on us as dominoes
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and fall down on us as dominoes
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really stems
and fall down on us as dominoes
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really stems
from this very essentialist view
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of Asian people
as simplistic and easily led.
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MAN: There's an ethnic
and cultural disconnect
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between us and the world around us,
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which goes back
to the very origins of our history -
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which goes back
white, Western, British people
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white, Western, British people
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migrating to this part of the world
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migrating to this part of the world
and becoming a white enclave
in Asia.
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and becoming a white enclave
in Asia.
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And that sets up
a fundamental problem in the history
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which we still haven't resolved.
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NEWSREEL: The Menzies government
had already committed itself
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to support the United States
in Korea,
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and in 1952 Australia
was a signatory to the ANZUS pact.
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and in 1952 Australia
With the retreat of the British,
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With the retreat of the British,
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Australia felt very small and alone
in our neighbourhood.
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The Menzies government
turned to the United States,
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signing the ANZUS treaty,
which came into force in 1952.
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The world needs
the United States of America.
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The world needs
the British peoples of the world.
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The world needs
every scrap of democratic strength
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00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:04,140
The world needs
that can be found in it,
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that can be found in it,
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because nobody, however optimistic,
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need underestimate the measure
or the character
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of the danger
that always confronts us.
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Trouble was, we weren't
exactly certain what we'd signed.
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Trouble was, we weren't
What is ANZUS supposed to mean?
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What is ANZUS supposed to mean?
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The Americans answered by saying,
"Our support for you
What is ANZUS supposed to mean?
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The Americans answered by saying,
"Our support for you
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"will depend on your support for us
elsewhere."
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"will depend on your support for us
Now, what did "elsewhere" mean?
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Now, what did "elsewhere" mean?
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Well, the next item on the agenda
was Vietnam,
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Well, the next item on the agenda
was Vietnam,
the support for South Vietnam.
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the support for South Vietnam.
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Attempting to strengthen ties
with the US,
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the Menzies government
dipped a toe into the water.
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In 1962, they sent
an army training team to Vietnam
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to support the fledgling
Republic of Vietnam
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in its struggle against attempts
by North Vietnam
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to unite the country
under communist rule.
in its struggle against attempts
by North Vietnam
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to unite the country
under communist rule.
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'62 is a pivotal year in many ways,
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'62 is a pivotal year in many ways,
and the commitment of 30 advisers
to South Vietnam
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and the commitment of 30 advisers
to South Vietnam
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and the commitment of 30 advisers
as part of a new body,
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as part of a new body,
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the Australian Army Training Team
Vietnam, as it became called,
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was a moment for Australia
to enter the war, really.
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These were men sent to train
and assist South Vietnamese forces,
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bringing to them their special
knowledge of jungle warfare.
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Really, from that moment, Australia
is pretty much in the ball game.
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Yeah.
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Where does the line draw?
Where do we stop? How far do we go?
Yeah.
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Where does the line draw?
Where do we stop? How far do we go?
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Where does the line draw?
Well, we start off by trying to win.
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Well, we start off by trying to win.
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Where do we go from there?
Well, let's win first.
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Where do we go from there?
Well, let's win first.
I fell for
the leader of the pack...
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I fell for
the leader of the pack...
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I will follow him, follow him
wherever he may go...
239
00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:04,140
In contrast to North Vietnam's
stable leadership under Ho Chi Minh,
240
00:11:04,140 --> 00:11:08,700
South Vietnamese President Diem
had trouble making friends.
241
00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:11,500
NEWSREEL: South Vietnam,
242
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:13,980
focal point of the West's fight
against communism
243
00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:15,340
in South East Asia.
244
00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:17,820
For nearly a decade,
Premier Ngo Dinh Diem
245
00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:21,540
ruled his small nation of 15 million
without open opposition.
246
00:11:21,540 --> 00:11:26,100
But in mid-1963, protests
began mounting against his regime.
247
00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:35,940
I think the problem with the way
the West approached South Vietnam
248
00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:39,380
was that South Vietnam
had just come out of colonisation.
249
00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:39,660
was that South Vietnam
had just come out of colonisation.
It was fighting for its survival
against a very determined enemy
250
00:11:39,660 --> 00:11:42,980
It was fighting for its survival
against a very determined enemy
251
00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:43,220
It was fighting for its survival
that wanted to invade it.
252
00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:44,700
that wanted to invade it.
253
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,540
Yet somehow,
people expected South Vietnam
254
00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:47,780
Yet somehow,
to instantly become a democracy.
255
00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:50,260
to instantly become a democracy.
256
00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:51,660
This was never going to happen.
257
00:11:51,660 --> 00:11:54,380
You know, it was struggling
with far too many issues
258
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:54,620
You know, it was struggling
just to establish itself.
259
00:11:54,620 --> 00:11:56,380
just to establish itself.
260
00:11:57,860 --> 00:12:00,740
DR HOBBS: Diem had been getting
increasingly repressive.
261
00:12:00,740 --> 00:12:04,460
Increasingly, he's despised
by the South Vietnamese,
262
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:08,780
basically tips
the JFK administration into action.
263
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:15,860
The CIA backed a military coup
against the regime.
264
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:19,460
President Diem and his brother
were eliminated.
265
00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:24,700
NEWSREEL: In a swift coup, they
swept through the streets of Saigon,
266
00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:29,020
overwhelmed loyalist forces
and seized key buildings.
267
00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:31,860
Diem and Nhu refused an offer
of safe conduct out of the country
268
00:12:31,860 --> 00:12:32,100
Diem and Nhu refused an offer
and fled.
269
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:33,420
and fled.
270
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:35,180
Both men were killed.
271
00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:39,580
After Diem is then assassinated
272
00:12:39,580 --> 00:12:39,820
because the CIA realises
After Diem is then assassinated
273
00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,220
because the CIA realises
he's a disaster,
274
00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:45,100
from that point,
you've got this revolving door.
275
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:45,340
from that point,
You know, various generals
276
00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:46,420
You know, various generals
277
00:12:46,420 --> 00:12:49,980
sort of rotating through
the prime ministership in Saigon,
278
00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:51,100
and it's very an unstable regime.
279
00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:55,980
But no matter how unstable
the southern Vietnam regime was,
280
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:59,420
the US government
believed it must be supported
281
00:12:59,420 --> 00:12:59,660
the US government
to keep the communist north at bay.
282
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:01,980
to keep the communist north at bay.
283
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:06,780
Let's not forget that on the day
John F. Kennedy was assassinated
284
00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:11,260
in Dallas in November 1963, he was
due to give a speech that afternoon
285
00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:11,500
in Dallas in November 1963, he was
in which he was going to say
286
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:13,460
in which he was going to say
287
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:17,420
that America must not tire
from its efforts in Vietnam,
288
00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:20,300
that it still had to be,
for the world,
289
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,540
the watchmen
on the walls of freedom.
290
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:26,580
MAN: You, Lyndon Baines Johnson,
do solemnly swear.
291
00:13:26,580 --> 00:13:30,020
I, Lyndon Baines Johnson
do solemnly swear.
292
00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:33,780
LBJ comes into power.
He says, "We're in an awful mess."
293
00:13:33,780 --> 00:13:37,180
"This is an awful mess. And I don't
know what to do about it."
294
00:13:37,180 --> 00:13:39,420
He thinks it's just going to get
worse and worse,
295
00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:42,260
and he doesn't see
how we can pull out.
296
00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:47,180
Johnson was on the one hand saying
he was not going to get involved,
297
00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:47,420
Johnson was on the one hand saying
but covertly putting in place
298
00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:51,180
but covertly putting in place
299
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:52,900
whatever would be necessary
300
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:57,740
if it came to the point where
American troops had to be committed.
301
00:13:57,740 --> 00:14:02,300
In 1964, with the US
increasingly committed to Vietnam,
302
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:06,580
Australia saw the opportunity
to lock in the precious alliance.
303
00:14:06,580 --> 00:14:10,380
For that,
we needed more men in boots.
304
00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:13,420
The Menzies government's answer
was conscription.
305
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:16,140
What do you think about
sending troops to Vietnam?
306
00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:16,380
What do you think about
I think it's a good idea.
307
00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:17,300
I think it's a good idea.
308
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:19,780
I think all countries
should participate
309
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:20,740
and help each other like that.
310
00:14:20,740 --> 00:14:22,340
I think it's got to be done.
311
00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:23,740
I haven't got any choice
at this stage.
312
00:14:23,740 --> 00:14:27,580
Well, I suppose
you have to really keep them,
313
00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:27,820
Well, I suppose
keep the communists out.
314
00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:30,300
keep the communists out.
315
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:34,460
But I'd rather see my boys
stay around.
316
00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:38,140
I think it's perfectly alright.
I think it's a duty of honour.
317
00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:42,020
Well, I don't particularly like
the idea.
318
00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:45,460
Uh, I don't think
we should be brought into it at all.
319
00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:47,020
I don't think they should
send people there.
320
00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:49,140
If the Americans want to start
a fight or start a war,
321
00:14:49,140 --> 00:14:49,380
If the Americans want to start
that's their business.
322
00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:50,660
that's their business.
323
00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:52,060
Why should we be involved in it?
324
00:14:52,060 --> 00:14:54,220
It's got nothing to do with us.
325
00:14:54,220 --> 00:14:56,420
The introduction
of selective conscription,
326
00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:59,540
as it was called
under a National Service Act,
327
00:14:59,540 --> 00:15:03,540
was seen as the way to bring
the numbers up in the Defence Force.
328
00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:06,060
They were looking to get
a force of 40,000
329
00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:06,300
They were looking to get
and they were way below that.
330
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,700
and they were way below that.
331
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,300
20-year-olds were asked
to register their birth date
332
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:16,820
with the Department of Labour
and National Service on turning 20.
333
00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:18,780
Do you like the idea
of 20-year-olds going overseas?
334
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:19,020
Do you like the idea
20, 18 or 19, yeah, in they go.
335
00:15:19,020 --> 00:15:20,780
20, 18 or 19, yeah, in they go.
336
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:23,700
It's a good experience.
Makes a man out of them.
337
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:23,940
It's a good experience.
I don't believe in conscription.
338
00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:26,180
I don't believe in conscription.
339
00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:28,860
If they want to go,
let them go on their own accord.
340
00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:31,820
I have a son
that is in the national call-up
341
00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:32,060
I have a son
and he'll probably go in time.
342
00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:34,020
and he'll probably go in time.
343
00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:35,980
And I'm a widow and he's my only son
344
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:39,340
and, therefore, I've got to fight
to say why shouldn't everyone else?
345
00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:46,940
Well, I thought
if it was to assist the country
346
00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:49,940
in the defence
of communism spreading,
347
00:15:49,940 --> 00:15:50,180
it might be a good thing
in the defence
of communism spreading,
348
00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:51,100
it might be a good thing
349
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:51,340
if the current numbers in
it might be a good thing
350
00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:56,580
if the current numbers in
the Defence Force were inadequate.
351
00:15:56,580 --> 00:15:56,820
if the current numbers in
the Defence Force were inadequate.
Go!
352
00:15:56,820 --> 00:15:58,460
Go!
354
00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:03,540
That's what happens
if you don't leap!
355
00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:03,780
That's what happens
Give us 20 push-ups.
356
00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:05,100
Give us 20 push-ups.
357
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,820
Three, four, five.
358
00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:10,060
Come on. He's like a bag of wheat.
359
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:14,580
MAN: The population loved the idea
of a young man in uniform
360
00:16:14,580 --> 00:16:18,860
becoming disciplined adults through
the process of military training.
362
00:16:21,140 --> 00:16:21,380
Controversially, the candidates
were chosen by lottery,
363
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:24,340
Controversially, the candidates
were chosen by lottery,
364
00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:28,900
a lottery that eventually
acquired the unkind nickname
365
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:29,900
Lottery of Death.
366
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:40,340
This barrel holds the immediate
future for 40,300 young Australians
367
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:43,780
who have registered for
national service since January 25th.
368
00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:46,300
The plan, which was announced
last November
369
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:50,020
in view of the deteriorating
strategic situation,
370
00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:52,980
aims eventually at providing
a constant strength
371
00:16:52,980 --> 00:16:53,220
aims eventually at providing
of 13,800 young national servicemen
372
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:56,140
of 13,800 young national servicemen
373
00:16:56,140 --> 00:16:58,380
in Australia's military forces.
374
00:16:59,660 --> 00:17:01,620
WOMAN: The draw happened
on television.
375
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:03,460
There were 31 dates in the barrel,
376
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:03,700
and if your birth date
was drawn out,
There were 31 dates in the barrel,
377
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:05,980
and if your birth date
was drawn out,
378
00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:08,820
then you had to register
for national service.
379
00:17:18,580 --> 00:17:21,940
It had an element of randomness
to it.
380
00:17:21,940 --> 00:17:25,660
It also felt somewhat ghoulish
to many,
381
00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:28,180
the idea that your life could change
and pivot
382
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:30,500
on this single moment of bad luck.
383
00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:37,220
MAN: Here I was going to be taken
away from a life of playing rugby
384
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:37,500
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport
MAN: Here I was going to be taken
away from a life of playing rugby
385
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,980
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport
386
00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:42,260
with St Ives in Sydney,
rowing surf boats with Newport
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
the computer programming department.
387
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:47,700
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
the computer programming department.
388
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:47,940
and in hot pursuit of a girl from
But...um...
389
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:50,620
But...um...
390
00:17:50,620 --> 00:17:52,340
Yeah, I just...
391
00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:55,940
But then I thought,
"No, it won't happen to me."
392
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:56,180
But then I thought,
Of course it does.
393
00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:57,260
Of course it does.
394
00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:02,900
Three-two-three.
395
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,660
323.
396
00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:07,380
November 18 to May 20.
Correct.
397
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:17,460
I always remember a bunch of guys
from Sydney Uni
398
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:20,540
standing on the footpath
handing out shots of scotch
399
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:23,900
and telling you to run up the stairs
to the medical appointment
400
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:27,780
so your blood pressure
would be through the roof.
401
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:30,100
I drank a scotch
but I then took the elevator.
402
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:36,700
It was a pretty quick medical.
You know, it was unusual.
403
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,540
Because I guess
I'd played a lot of footy,
404
00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:39,820
so I was used to parading around
with nothing on
Because I guess
I'd played a lot of footy,
405
00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:42,020
so I was used to parading around
with nothing on
406
00:18:42,020 --> 00:18:42,900
in front of other guys.
407
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,900
But they were your mates, so...
408
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:52,020
Alright.
So, I was conscripted in 1965.
409
00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:56,340
We were the very first people
to have to sort of figure out
410
00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:59,340
the rights that the state has
over an individual.
411
00:18:59,340 --> 00:19:02,540
You're asking to think about
the morality of war.
412
00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:05,820
You're thinking about the moralities
of killing and stuff like that.
413
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:10,300
These are big moral, political,
spiritual,
414
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:11,500
you know, religious issues.
415
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,020
Present...arms.
416
00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:16,420
One, two, three...arms.
417
00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:20,780
When you hear people talk about
the Australian Army at the time,
418
00:19:20,780 --> 00:19:24,540
they talk about it
as a place of equality,
419
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:29,740
a place where people of all races
and classes mixed together.
420
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:33,300
You could be excluded from
national service if you were gay
421
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:37,580
and there was a certain amount
of gay pretending if you like,
422
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:37,820
and there was a certain amount
I think, going on.
423
00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:39,380
I think, going on.
424
00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:39,620
Certainly some doctors were prepared
I think, going on.
425
00:19:39,620 --> 00:19:45,620
Certainly some doctors were prepared
to sign off men as gay
426
00:19:45,620 --> 00:19:51,180
who might not otherwise have shown
any particular gay tendencies.
427
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:53,700
So, we get
this faintly comedic image
428
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,300
of straight men pretending to be gay
to get out of the services.
429
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,220
But the other side of that coin
is gay men pretended to be straight
430
00:20:01,220 --> 00:20:02,500
so as to be conscripted
431
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:05,380
because a lot of people
wanted to be conscripted.
432
00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:07,900
A lot of people
wanted to fight the Vietnam War.
433
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:08,140
A lot of people
That's a fact that's forgotten now.
434
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:10,060
That's a fact that's forgotten now.
435
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:14,940
The return of conscription
may have been massively popular,
436
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:18,460
but there were early ripples
of dissent.
437
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:20,980
ARROW: Not long after Menzies
had reintroduced conscription,
438
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:25,420
he delivered a speech to, really
to the party faithful in Hornsby
439
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:26,860
in Sydney's north-west.
440
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,180
As he started to make his speech,
441
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:35,980
a number of women
who had infiltrated the crowd,
442
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:37,940
dressed all in black,
443
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:39,860
rose silently from their seats,
444
00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:41,860
and they were wearing veils
over their faces.
445
00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:44,980
So they looked like
they were women in mourning.
446
00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:45,220
So they looked like
And they were jeered.
447
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:47,860
And they were jeered.
448
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:48,980
They were booed.
449
00:20:48,980 --> 00:20:52,660
Menzies had to kind of
stop his speech for a moment.
450
00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:54,940
And the women stood there
for several minutes,
451
00:20:54,940 --> 00:20:59,300
just kind of absorbing the kind
of abuse, I suppose, of the crowd.
452
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:03,140
And then they all left the room,
left the hall at the same time
453
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:06,260
and handed out
anti-conscription pamphlets.
454
00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:09,340
They weren't ratbags.
455
00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:12,140
They were dressed
as respectable liberal women,
456
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,300
but they were dressed
as if they were going to a funeral.
457
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,220
The idea
that respectable wives and mothers
458
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:18,460
The idea
would protest government policy,
459
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:20,340
would protest government policy,
460
00:21:20,340 --> 00:21:23,420
that would claim
to know better than Menzies,
461
00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,780
would claim to know better
than the government
462
00:21:25,780 --> 00:21:26,020
would claim to know better
who was making these big decisions,
463
00:21:26,020 --> 00:21:28,500
who was making these big decisions,
464
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,780
was seen as kind of outrageous.
465
00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:36,660
It was the first women's protest
against conscription
466
00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:38,020
in the Vietnam era.
467
00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:40,460
It would not be the last.
468
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:43,020
You know, a number of the women who
were part of these early protests
469
00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:44,820
were sort of told,
"Well, why don't you go home
470
00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:47,140
"and look after your husband
and family at home
471
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:49,340
"rather than worrying about
this stuff.
472
00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:49,580
"rather than worrying about
"It's none of your business."
473
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:50,580
"It's none of your business."
474
00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:54,180
So, it was very much
that politics is men's domain
475
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:57,660
and women, and particularly mothers,
have no role to play
476
00:21:57,660 --> 00:22:00,380
in this kind of broader
civil society debate
477
00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:03,660
about whether we should
be sending young men to fight
478
00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:03,900
about whether we should
in a war overseas.
479
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:04,700
in a war overseas.
480
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:04,940
And sending young men
in a war overseas.
481
00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:07,660
And sending young men
to fight overseas
482
00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:10,260
was exactly what Robert Menzies
had in mind.
483
00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:15,100
The decision was taken
at a forgotten Cabinet meeting
484
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:15,340
The decision was taken
on December 17, 1964.
485
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:18,460
on December 17, 1964.
486
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:25,020
He was a bit tired and
he wanted to get it over quickly.
487
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:27,540
He goes into the meeting
with the Cabinet
488
00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:30,660
and basically he'd clearly
already made his mind up.
489
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:35,500
He wants them to ratify a decision
to send combat troops to Vietnam.
490
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:39,380
The meeting was of the Defence
and Foreign Affairs Subcommittee
491
00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:39,620
The meeting was of the Defence
of Cabinet,
492
00:22:39,620 --> 00:22:40,860
of Cabinet,
493
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:42,620
which was Menzies and McEwen,
494
00:22:42,620 --> 00:22:46,140
the leader of the Country Party
and Deputy Prime Minister,
495
00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,980
Harold Holt, the Deputy leader
of the party and the Treasurer,
496
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,020
and what Menzies
would habitually call the new boys.
497
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:52,260
and what Menzies
499
00:22:54,580 --> 00:22:59,940
On December 14th, a request
came in from President Johnson,
500
00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:01,540
not for a battalion,
not mentioned at all,
501
00:23:01,540 --> 00:23:01,780
not for a battalion,
said he didn't want it, actually,
502
00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:03,700
said he didn't want it, actually,
503
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,100
but for a great array
of other military assistance.
504
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,220
And particularly
he wanted a big increase
505
00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:09,460
And particularly
in the Australian Army advisers.
506
00:23:09,460 --> 00:23:12,180
in the Australian Army advisers.
507
00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:12,420
The US didn't want
in the Australian Army advisers.
508
00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:15,860
The US didn't want
Australian combat troops.
509
00:23:15,860 --> 00:23:16,100
The US didn't want
Menzies had other ideas.
510
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,340
Menzies had other ideas.
511
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:20,700
After five minutes of discussion,
512
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:22,140
the meeting decided
513
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:22,380
to send an infantry battalion
the meeting decided
514
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:27,660
to send an infantry battalion
of 800 men to Vietnam.
515
00:23:27,660 --> 00:23:31,540
The Prime Minister
saw this as an opportunity
516
00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:31,780
The Prime Minister
to get alongside the United States.
517
00:23:31,780 --> 00:23:34,660
to get alongside the United States.
518
00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:39,220
"Everything we can put alongside
the Americans
519
00:23:39,220 --> 00:23:42,660
"in the common interest
is good," he said.
520
00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:46,940
There are few things more serious
that a prime minister could do
521
00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:48,020
is send people to war.
522
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:51,860
I mean, this is, you know,
about taking and losing life
523
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:52,100
I mean, this is, you know,
and national treasure.
524
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,740
and national treasure.
525
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,220
So it's hugely important.
526
00:23:57,220 --> 00:24:00,380
And so, this was just done,
you know, in five minutes.
527
00:24:00,380 --> 00:24:05,820
Five minutes to decide to commit
combat troops to fight in Vietnam.
528
00:24:05,820 --> 00:24:06,060
Five minutes to decide to commit
Five minutes to set in train
529
00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:08,300
Five minutes to set in train
530
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,700
a process that would alter Australia
immeasurably.
531
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:17,540
The discussion was not worthy of
the great issue that was involved.
532
00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:23,940
By April 1965,
533
00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:24,180
Robert Menzies was ready
By April 1965,
534
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:27,060
Robert Menzies was ready
to let the rest of the country know
535
00:24:27,060 --> 00:24:30,380
about the decision taken
the previous December.
536
00:24:31,540 --> 00:24:33,820
MAN: He was claiming
it was a civil war,
537
00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:34,060
MAN: He was claiming
not an insurgency from the north,
538
00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:35,820
not an insurgency from the north,
539
00:24:35,820 --> 00:24:36,060
which was part of the justification
not an insurgency from the north,
540
00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:38,980
which was part of the justification
for it, of course.
541
00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:43,900
it was the justification that lay
behind our forward defence policy
542
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:48,100
and an attempt to get
a powerful American strength
543
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:48,340
and an attempt to get
into our sphere of influence
544
00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:50,020
into our sphere of influence
545
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:50,260
which was seen now
into our sphere of influence
546
00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:53,780
which was seen now
to extend into South East Asia.
547
00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:57,780
But first
he had an obstacle to clear.
548
00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:00,500
DR EDWARDS: If we were going
to commit forces to Vietnam,
549
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:04,620
we would not simply do it
because the Americans wanted us to
550
00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:08,060
or because we wanted
the Americans to want us to.
551
00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:12,020
We had to have an invitation from
the South Vietnamese government.
552
00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:16,300
And it was known
that the people in power at the time
553
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:20,860
had some reservations
that if foreign governments were,
554
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:25,140
you know, would come in and have
to fight their battles for them,
555
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:28,380
that this was going to be seen
as a sign of weakness,
556
00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:32,980
as indeed it was on the part
of...by the Vietnamese people.
557
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:33,220
as indeed it was on the part
Now, Menzies claimed, of course,
558
00:25:33,220 --> 00:25:35,460
Now, Menzies claimed, of course,
559
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:37,140
to have had...be in receipt
560
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:40,620
of a request from the government
of the Republic of Vietnam.
561
00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:44,100
But I think the conventional wisdom
now amongst scholars
562
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,780
is that in fact the Americans
had generated that request
563
00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:49,380
from the Republic of Vietnam
on Australia's behalf.
564
00:25:49,380 --> 00:25:49,620
from the Republic of Vietnam
Rescue me, take me in your arms
565
00:25:49,620 --> 00:25:53,460
Rescue me, take me in your arms
566
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:54,940
Rescue me...
567
00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,500
On April 29th, 1965,
568
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,500
the Prime Minister
told the House of Representatives
569
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:06,100
that Australia would send a battalion
of combat troops to Vietnam.
570
00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:24,980
Well, I think I suddenly felt
like I'd been kicked in the stomach
571
00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:27,820
because I was the one
he was wanting to send there.
572
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,700
I was in my first year
at Duntroon then.
573
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:40,580
And indeed I remember
walking to Mess Parade at lunch
574
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:40,820
And indeed I remember
and I was just a little behind time
575
00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:42,340
and I was just a little behind time
576
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:44,900
and there was this cheering
going on.
577
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:47,820
And that was because news
that Menzies had announced
578
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:48,060
And that was because news
the commitment had occurred.
579
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:49,260
the commitment had occurred.
580
00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:49,500
So, we were rather pleased,
the commitment had occurred.
581
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,860
So, we were rather pleased,
as soldiers would be,
582
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:53,100
So, we were rather pleased,
that you had a war.
583
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:54,340
that you had a war.
584
00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:02,340
I believed all the things
that the government was saying,
585
00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:02,620
the communists coming down
through Malay Peninsula, you know,
I believed all the things
that the government was saying,
586
00:27:02,620 --> 00:27:06,260
the communists coming down
through Malay Peninsula, you know,
587
00:27:06,260 --> 00:27:08,820
over time, and then eventually
Australia, you know.
588
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:11,900
And I thought, "Oh, well, if we can
stop it there, well and good."
589
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:12,140
And I thought, "Oh, well, if we can
And that was part of the plan.
590
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:13,580
And that was part of the plan.
591
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:13,820
And that was part of the plan.
Would you both like
to go to Vietnam?
592
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:16,380
Would you both like
to go to Vietnam?
593
00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:18,900
I would.
Why is that?
594
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:20,420
Well, I think
there's a lot of benefits
595
00:27:20,420 --> 00:27:22,140
to be got out of it, really,
and experience.
596
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:25,380
And when you come back,
it's a pretty good possibility.
597
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:26,580
A lot of benefits.
598
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:27,820
And yourself?
599
00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:30,300
No. I don't want to go,
but if I have to go, I'll go.
600
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,180
Well, it's not a matter
of liking to go, but I would go.
601
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:37,060
I realise that I'm in the army.
I've got to go with it.
602
00:27:37,060 --> 00:27:41,820
But if it was a choice
between deciding to go,
603
00:27:41,820 --> 00:27:42,060
But if it was a choice
volunteering or staying,
604
00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:44,580
volunteering or staying,
605
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:46,780
I'd stay, I wouldn't volunteer.
606
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:51,660
I didn't think it was a good idea.
However, I did my duty.
607
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:51,900
I didn't think it was a good idea.
I was a professional officer.
608
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:53,100
I was a professional officer.
609
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,100
And, you know, I was spoken for
and I had to do my duty
610
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,700
regardless
of what I thought personally.
611
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:01,980
The military is conditioned,
I guess, is the term to use
612
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:06,260
to believe in the sorts of politics
that the government believes in.
613
00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:07,780
So, the thought
to be able to go
614
00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:09,940
and fight in somebody else's
backyard
615
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:10,220
instead of waiting until
we had to fight in our own backyard,
and fight in somebody else's
backyard
616
00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:13,140
instead of waiting until
we had to fight in our own backyard,
617
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:15,020
you know, it was positive for us.
618
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,820
I must say that in those days
I felt wonderful.
619
00:28:21,260 --> 00:28:24,820
You know, it's like
if you've got racehorses,
620
00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:26,380
you've got to give them a run.
621
00:28:26,380 --> 00:28:26,580
you've got to give them a run.
I don't think Menzies had any idea
622
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:28,140
I don't think Menzies had any idea
623
00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:30,340
of the kind of war
he was getting into,
624
00:28:30,340 --> 00:28:33,300
nor really do I think
the chiefs of staff did.
625
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:36,820
But in relation to Menzies,
it wasn't...it wasn't his area.
626
00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:39,340
I mean, he was a lawyer,
he was a politician
627
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:41,860
and he dealt with
strategic and political matters
628
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:44,540
and he didn't think in specifically,
in military terms.
629
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:48,300
Gross ignorance
probably best sums it up.
630
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:50,660
ALL: (CHANT) One, two, three, four,
we don't want war.
631
00:28:50,660 --> 00:28:54,060
Five, six, seven, eight,
stop the war, negotiate.
632
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:56,700
Well, I think the Americans
shouldn't be interfering
633
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:56,940
Well, I think the Americans
as much as they are in Vietnam,
634
00:28:56,940 --> 00:28:58,540
as much as they are in Vietnam,
635
00:28:58,540 --> 00:28:58,780
and they should leave Vietnam
as much as they are in Vietnam,
636
00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:01,540
and they should leave Vietnam
to a certain extent
637
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:01,780
and they should leave Vietnam
to decide its own troubles.
638
00:29:01,780 --> 00:29:03,420
to decide its own troubles.
639
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:06,100
What use is it if we take Vietnam?
640
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,500
If Vietnam is lost,
are they any closer to us or not?
641
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:09,780
No. They're no closer.
MAN: (SHOUTS) Commies!
642
00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:11,740
They're just as close
whether Vietnam is lost or not.
643
00:29:11,740 --> 00:29:11,980
They're just as close
That's right.
644
00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:12,740
That's right.
645
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:14,740
So why send a quarter
of our Australians to Vietnam?
646
00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:16,100
What use does it serve? None.
647
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,300
Can we make
any, any appreciable difference?
648
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:21,580
Australia's alliance with America?
It indicates nothing.
649
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:23,060
What about it?
It's a boob...
650
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:25,180
..doesn't believe in US policy
in Vietnam
651
00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:26,340
is living in a fool's paradise.
652
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:27,700
Oh, don't be silly, man.
653
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:30,700
What use is it if our blokes
get killed? It's a token.
654
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:33,220
It's a useless token.
It's 800 men shot for nothing.
655
00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:33,980
Why is it a useless token?
656
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:36,460
And they're just as dangerous
whether they're lost or won.
657
00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:39,060
Look, if we lose Vietnam, we lose
Australia. We've got to have...
658
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:40,740
If we lose Vietnam,
they're just as close.
659
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:40,980
If we lose Vietnam,
We're not. We're not.
660
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:41,780
We're not. We're not.
661
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:49,980
McKAY: It wasn't until
you were personally involved
662
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:52,620
that you started
to take an interest, you know?
663
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:54,940
19-, 20-year-old men
full of testosterone,
664
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:55,180
playing footy, rowing boats,
19-, 20-year-old men
full of testosterone,
665
00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:56,380
playing footy, rowing boats,
666
00:29:56,380 --> 00:30:00,900
surf clubs, dances on weekends,
girls,
667
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:05,260
beer, all of that sort of thing
took priority
668
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:05,500
beer, all of that sort of thing
took priority
before geopolitical matters.
669
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,300
before geopolitical matters.
670
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,700
THOMPSON: I liked cars and trucks
and all the boy stuff.
671
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:14,940
THOMPSON: I liked cars and trucks
And I lived near a council yard
672
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:18,340
And I lived near a council yard
673
00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:21,380
and all their heavy equipment
was parked there.
674
00:30:21,380 --> 00:30:21,660
And we had a family friend
who worked on the wharves
and all their heavy equipment
was parked there.
675
00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:24,660
And we had a family friend
who worked on the wharves
676
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:27,420
in Melbourne, crane operator.
677
00:30:27,420 --> 00:30:30,540
And he happened to say to me,
"Look, if you want to do that,
678
00:30:30,540 --> 00:30:34,660
"get into the army and they'll
teach you how to drive it."
679
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:34,900
"get into the army and they'll
teach you how to drive it."
So I made my inquiries
680
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:36,220
So I made my inquiries
681
00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:40,220
and discovered I had to join
the Corps of Engineers
682
00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:43,220
and with a view
to becoming a plant operator.
683
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:46,300
And so I took
all the appropriate steps.
684
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:46,540
And so I took
When I was about...
685
00:30:46,540 --> 00:30:48,540
When I was about...
686
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:51,820
I was about 18.5 at the time
687
00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:54,100
and joined the army
688
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:56,220
and don't regret a day of it.
689
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:23,500
I remember the day that this photo
was taken, and that was in about...
690
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:23,740
I remember the day that this photo
..19...
691
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:27,420
..19...
692
00:31:27,420 --> 00:31:30,020
..69.
693
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:36,700
Well, there's a young boy,
a very young lad,
694
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:41,780
that looks out of place
in an army uniform.
695
00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:45,380
Mmm.
696
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,860
EKINS: In this initial stage,
one Australian battalion
697
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:09,140
being attached
to an American brigade
EKINS: In this initial stage,
one Australian battalion
698
00:32:09,140 --> 00:32:12,820
being attached
to an American brigade
699
00:32:12,820 --> 00:32:14,580
was not going to make
an enormous difference
700
00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:16,860
to the outcome
of the war in Vietnam.
701
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:17,140
to the outcome
of the war in Vietnam.
Remember I was a boy from
the western suburbs of Sydney.
702
00:32:17,140 --> 00:32:20,540
Remember I was a boy from
the western suburbs of Sydney.
703
00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:23,620
We didn't know too much
about guns, mate,
704
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:27,300
or when I was conscripted, yeah,
that...
705
00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:39,540
Troops from First Battalion
Royal Australian Regiment, 1RAR,
706
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:45,260
all regular army,
arrived in Vietnam in June 1965.
707
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:49,780
That's when I get the shakes
all over me...
708
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:52,340
EKINS: They were well trained,
well prepared,
709
00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:52,580
EKINS: They were well trained,
very experienced in the main.
710
00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:54,180
very experienced in the main.
711
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,580
They had really done lots of work
in counter-insurgency.
712
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:01,660
Counter-revolutionary warfare
was one of the standard doctrines
713
00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:04,220
in the Australian arsenal,
if you like.
714
00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:08,340
What they weren't prepared for was
the scale and nature of the war.
715
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:15,980
BORGER: We arrived at Saigon
at Tan Son Nhat Airport
716
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:19,540
and saw all these planes
and jets taking off.
717
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:23,540
And it was just, "Jeez, this
is...this is what a war looks like."
718
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:29,660
The Australians
were terribly equipped.
719
00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:34,620
They had outmoded uniforms, boots,
equipment of all kinds,
720
00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:38,060
very little
in the way of mechanical aids.
721
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:40,380
DR LOCKHART: They couldn't work out
what they were supposed to do,
722
00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:42,900
and the early troops anyway,
couldn't get the supplies
723
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:45,500
and equipment
that they felt they needed.
724
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,540
You know, their shirts,
their uniforms, their tents
725
00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:51,060
were sort of rotting in the monsoon
and so on.
726
00:33:57,380 --> 00:34:00,340
Some officers from the battalion
did was got in a jeep
727
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:02,380
with a trailer on it,
728
00:34:02,380 --> 00:34:02,620
went down to an American base
at Vung Tau
with a trailer on it,
729
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:03,700
went down to an American base
at Vung Tau
730
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,500
and said, "We're here to pick up
the Australian stores."
731
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:06,780
and said, "We're here to pick up
the Australian stores."
And so they flogged five 50 calibre
machine guns and a water truck.
732
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,780
And so they flogged five 50 calibre
machine guns and a water truck.
733
00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:14,140
Now, I understand, I don't know
if this story is apocryphal or not,
734
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:16,380
but that the Americans
opened fire on them.
735
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:20,060
But they got back to base.
736
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:27,580
Meanwhile, the signals officer
had taken a load of slouch hats
737
00:34:27,580 --> 00:34:29,180
and shower buckets to Saigon
738
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:32,300
to barter for field telephones
and communications equipment
739
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,500
so they could communicate around
the perimeter of the task force base
740
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:40,580
In this dirty old part
of the city...
741
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:44,100
NEWSREEL: Australian soldiers
on patrol in Vietnam.
742
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:46,940
Two minutes ago,
there were five shots
743
00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:47,180
Two minutes ago,
about 300 yards away in the jungle.
744
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:49,540
about 300 yards away in the jungle.
745
00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:51,260
Friendly or enemy?
746
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:55,460
We gotta get out
of this place...
747
00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:55,700
We gotta get out
We had to defend that whole area
748
00:34:55,700 --> 00:34:57,540
We had to defend that whole area
749
00:34:57,540 --> 00:35:00,700
where they intended to put
the task force in.
750
00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:03,780
Not only was it mentally tough,
it was physically tough.
751
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:06,260
And when we were,
in establishing our footprint,
752
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:09,100
the only way we could defend
ourselves was patrol.
753
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:09,340
the only way we could defend
Patrol. Patrol. Patrol.
754
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:10,660
Patrol. Patrol. Patrol.
755
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:15,500
Girl, there's a better life
for me and you.
756
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:21,180
REPORTER: Sir Robert Menzies
bows out
757
00:35:21,180 --> 00:35:21,420
REPORTER: Sir Robert Menzies
of the Australian political scene.
758
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,260
of the Australian political scene.
759
00:35:23,260 --> 00:35:25,260
This is how it was today,
760
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:27,380
as Sir Robert Menzies
arrived at Parliament House
761
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:29,700
to attend a meeting
of the government parties
762
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,460
to tell them
of his intention to resign.
763
00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:38,420
Robert Menzies finally stepped down
as Prime Minister in January 1966.
764
00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:42,420
Harold Holt was elected unopposed
to succeed him.
765
00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:45,460
MAN: When Menzies retired,
he was 70 years old.
766
00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:48,260
And he'd been prime minister
for 16 years
767
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:48,540
and the government had become
more and more moribund
And he'd been prime minister
for 16 years
768
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:51,660
and the government had become
more and more moribund
769
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:56,260
and Menzies had become less and less
interested in new challenges.
770
00:35:57,540 --> 00:36:04,740
One becomes tired, one becomes
not quite 100% in efficiency.
771
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:07,500
And I have an old-fashioned belief
772
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:12,580
that the Prime Minister of this
country ought to be 100% efficient.
773
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:14,340
CURRAN: There was a sense
that Menzies was tired,
774
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:14,580
CURRAN: There was a sense
that it was time for him to go,
775
00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:16,900
that it was time for him to go,
776
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:19,300
that the Coalition needed
777
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:22,940
a fresher, younger style
of leadership,
778
00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:23,220
and they certainly got that
in Harold Holt.
a fresher, younger style
of leadership,
779
00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:25,420
and they certainly got that
in Harold Holt.
780
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:27,260
Harold Holt essentially continued,
781
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:31,180
if not increased
Australia's commitment to Vietnam.
782
00:36:31,180 --> 00:36:31,460
if not increased
Australia's commitment to Vietnam.
The need for Australian
participation in Vietnam
783
00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:37,180
The need for Australian
participation in Vietnam
784
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:37,420
The need for Australian
is, I believe, well understood
785
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:39,660
is, I believe, well understood
786
00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:39,900
by an overwhelming majority
is, I believe, well understood
787
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,620
by an overwhelming majority
of Australians
788
00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:43,860
by an overwhelming majority
and supported by them.
789
00:36:43,860 --> 00:36:46,180
and supported by them.
790
00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:50,460
Holt came in with great enthusiasm
for the commitment.
791
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:56,580
He seemed to be initiating
increases in the commitment,
792
00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:59,700
which surprised
even his closest advisers.
793
00:36:59,700 --> 00:36:59,940
which surprised
He didn't seem to realise
794
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:01,940
He didn't seem to realise
795
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:06,020
that the policy
was not an unlimited commitment,
796
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:09,700
that it was a matter
of committing sufficient forces
797
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:09,980
to have credibility
with the Americans.
that it was a matter
of committing sufficient forces
798
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:12,660
to have credibility
with the Americans.
799
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:19,260
But keeping that commitment
as low as we conveniently could.
800
00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:19,540
But keeping that commitment
as low as we conveniently could.
With the new Prime Minister
came a new approach,
801
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:22,940
With the new Prime Minister
came a new approach,
802
00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:27,820
a separate base
of operations for Australian troops.
803
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:32,460
A major rethink came about
through senior commanders
804
00:37:32,460 --> 00:37:32,700
A major rethink came about
like General John Wilton,
805
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:34,580
like General John Wilton,
806
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:39,300
who had been resisting all along
the use of the Australians
807
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:43,540
in any form of mobile warfare
with American units.
808
00:37:43,540 --> 00:37:48,620
The proposal was to insert another
two battalions into a task force
809
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:53,180
with its own
independent area of operations.
810
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:57,020
This took a lot of discussion
and consideration.
811
00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:57,260
This took a lot of discussion
In the end, what Wilton settled on
812
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:59,500
In the end, what Wilton settled on
813
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,380
was the province of Phuoc Tuy,
814
00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:01,620
which had advantages
was the province of Phuoc Tuy,
815
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,860
which had advantages
of various kinds.
816
00:38:03,860 --> 00:38:07,140
It had a seaport
for ready access through Vung Tau.
817
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:12,420
The selection of Phuoc Tuy province
is interesting
818
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:14,780
because I think the government
didn't want Australians
819
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:16,380
to go up into the north,
for example,
820
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:18,380
where there would have been
bigger battles
821
00:38:18,380 --> 00:38:18,620
where there would have been
and, therefore, greater casualties.
822
00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:20,100
and, therefore, greater casualties.
823
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:22,580
The Australians, because of
the national service component,
824
00:38:22,580 --> 00:38:24,540
were extremely worried about
casualties
825
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:29,260
and so they wanted a province
they thought was relatively quiet.
826
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:32,060
And Phuoc Tuy
seemed to fit the bill.
827
00:38:34,020 --> 00:38:36,940
It was possible to build a base
828
00:38:36,940 --> 00:38:39,740
right in the centre
of this province,
829
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:39,980
right in the centre
which became the fixation, almost,
830
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:42,380
which became the fixation, almost,
831
00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:46,460
that there would be a base
around a hill known as Nui Dat,
832
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:50,380
Dirt Hill, right in the middle
of the province.
833
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:53,860
It would allow the Australians
to operate independently
834
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:58,020
and practise their own form
of counter-insurgency operations.
835
00:38:58,020 --> 00:38:58,260
and practise their own form
That was the basis of this change.
836
00:38:58,260 --> 00:39:02,140
That was the basis of this change.
837
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:06,700
It would require a vast amount
of work before it came into being.
838
00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:11,540
The operation to clear the area
was dubbed 'Hardihood'.
839
00:39:11,540 --> 00:39:16,100
Operation Hardihood commenced
possibly 10 days after we arrived.
840
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,660
Two townships, two small villages
had to be destroyed
841
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:19,900
Two townships, two small villages
and the displaced people relocated.
842
00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:22,860
and the displaced people relocated.
843
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:26,540
That became a thorn in the side
of the task force
844
00:39:26,540 --> 00:39:28,140
for the next five, six years.
845
00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:31,220
The two villages of Long Tan
and Long Phuoc,
846
00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:31,460
The two villages of Long Tan
they were razed to the ground.
847
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:33,260
they were razed to the ground.
848
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:39,540
The people and their gardens and
vegetables and farms were destroyed.
849
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:47,180
So, you had a population
of about 5,000 dispossessed people,
850
00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:47,420
So, you had a population
very discontented,
851
00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:49,300
very discontented,
852
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:53,100
still trying to get back to their
original ancestral areas
853
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:56,820
where the,
traditionally in Vietnamese culture,
854
00:39:56,820 --> 00:39:59,060
these places had a reverence for,
855
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:03,340
the ancestors' bones would be buried
in the hearth of the village,
856
00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:03,580
the ancestors' bones would be buried
houses and so on,
857
00:40:03,580 --> 00:40:05,820
houses and so on,
858
00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:09,300
and they were denied access
to these areas.
859
00:40:12,580 --> 00:40:14,020
McKAY: It was pretty tough.
860
00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:18,540
But it was something
that had to be done.
861
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:22,580
This was very, very ill considered
862
00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:24,980
you have to concede.
863
00:40:26,060 --> 00:40:30,980
And it left a stain really
864
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:31,220
on the Australian involvement
And it left a stain really
865
00:40:31,220 --> 00:40:33,700
on the Australian involvement
at that stage.
866
00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:38,500
As the soldiers settled in
in Vietnam
867
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:38,780
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.
As the soldiers settled in
in Vietnam
868
00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:43,420
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.
869
00:40:43,420 --> 00:40:43,700
back home, other young men
were taking a different path.
(READS) "I ask you,
as your commanding officer,
870
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:45,940
(READS) "I ask you,
as your commanding officer,
871
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:49,260
"to consider your position carefully
and to report as ordered
872
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:52,860
"so as to avoid becoming liable
to the quite severe punishments
873
00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:53,100
"so as to avoid becoming liable
"which the law provides
874
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:54,380
"which the law provides
875
00:40:54,380 --> 00:40:57,700
"for infringements
of military discipline."
876
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,260
Mr White, does the telegram
at all change your plans now?
877
00:41:01,260 --> 00:41:04,020
No. I have made it clear
from July 18th,
878
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:07,300
when I was dismissed
from my teaching position
879
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,460
that I do not intend
to comply with the call-up notice,
880
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:14,500
and I do not intend to present
myself to the military
881
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:17,020
or to obey
any orders of a military nature.
882
00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:20,460
William White was a conscientious
objector and a teacher.
883
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:33,420
William White's birthday was drawn
in the first conscription ballot
884
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:35,740
held in March 1965.
885
00:41:35,740 --> 00:41:40,260
He was the first Australian
to fight his call-up notice.
886
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:42,580
After refusing
to report for training,
887
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:42,820
After refusing
he was sacked from his teaching job
888
00:41:42,820 --> 00:41:44,740
he was sacked from his teaching job
889
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:48,780
and then arrested and incarcerated
at Holsworthy Army Base.
890
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:56,300
He believed he would qualify
as a conscientious objector
891
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:56,540
He believed he would qualify
opposed to all use of violence,
892
00:41:56,540 --> 00:41:59,220
opposed to all use of violence,
893
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:03,220
and he was unsuccessful
in his conscientious objection case.
894
00:42:03,220 --> 00:42:05,220
I ain't gonna go
895
00:42:05,220 --> 00:42:07,420
Ain't gonna go
896
00:42:07,420 --> 00:42:09,460
Hell no
897
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:10,500
Hell no...
898
00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:15,820
His conscientious objection
was not on religious grounds,
899
00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:18,940
but on the immorality
of the Vietnam War.
900
00:42:18,940 --> 00:42:19,180
but on the immorality
of the Vietnam War.
So this, again, to me
901
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:20,340
So this, again, to me
902
00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:24,100
was one of the great injustices
of conscription.
903
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:28,140
The more rational and intelligent
and well-founded your objection was,
904
00:42:28,140 --> 00:42:31,380
the less likely it was
to be listened to.
905
00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:34,780
After protracted legal battles,
906
00:42:34,780 --> 00:42:37,020
Bill White eventually won the right
907
00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:37,260
to be recognised
Bill White eventually won the right
908
00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:40,300
to be recognised
as a conscientious objector.
909
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:45,100
His stand inspired thousands
of others around the country.
910
00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:48,380
The lasting legacy of the stand
he took
911
00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:50,580
are the visuals,
are the photos that remain.
912
00:42:50,580 --> 00:42:53,820
The photos that were
on the front pages of newspapers
913
00:42:53,820 --> 00:42:57,580
which showed a schoolteacher,
a schoolteacher of all professions,
914
00:42:57,580 --> 00:43:00,700
being carried away by police
and arresting
915
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:05,060
for ostensibly refusing to fight,
refusing to join the army.
916
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:05,340
That showed you
what the state could do.
for ostensibly refusing to fight,
refusing to join the army.
917
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:08,300
That showed you
what the state could do.
918
00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:12,700
And that sort of, you know,
that showed you the extent to which
919
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:16,420
they could act
in a blatantly repressive way.
920
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:20,700
SPEAKER: The proposition
that I have put to you...
921
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:24,020
ALL: (CHANT) Release Bill White.
Release Bill White.
922
00:43:24,020 --> 00:43:24,260
ALL: (CHANT) Release Bill White.
924
00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:32,140
Release Bill White.
Release Bill White.
925
00:43:36,340 --> 00:43:40,180
There are opponents
of the government
926
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:44,260
who are quite afraid to hear
what the government has to say
927
00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:47,420
on national policies
of this country.
928
00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:47,660
The government didn't want trouble.
on national policies
of this country.
929
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:49,140
The government didn't want trouble.
930
00:43:49,140 --> 00:43:51,620
The government didn't anticipate
an anti-war movement.
931
00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:54,740
And the government wanted to fight
a war, not an anti-war movement.
932
00:43:54,740 --> 00:43:56,620
The government
didn't want to be seen
933
00:43:56,620 --> 00:43:56,900
The government
didn't want to be seen
to be manhandling teachers out of
a schoolhouse into a jailhouse.
934
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:00,580
to be manhandling teachers out of
a schoolhouse into a jailhouse.
935
00:44:00,580 --> 00:44:03,420
You know,
they were horrible pictures.
936
00:44:03,420 --> 00:44:08,340
And it's worth remembering
what a brave stand it was
937
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:10,260
for someone like Bill White.
938
00:44:10,260 --> 00:44:11,940
What an unusual stand.
939
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:14,660
How far away from
the Australian mainstream
940
00:44:14,660 --> 00:44:17,180
those early anti-war campaigners
were.
941
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:19,420
I mean, people
thought they were mad.
942
00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:31,300
The first national serviceman to be
killed in Vietnam was Errol Noack.
943
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:37,380
Errol Noack was conscripted in
the same March 1965 birthday ballot
944
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:39,620
as Bill White.
945
00:44:39,620 --> 00:44:41,420
Errol Noack was a young man
946
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:45,100
who lived on Kangaroo Island,
South Australia.
947
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:45,340
who lived on Kangaroo Island,
He was a fisherman, farmer.
948
00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:46,860
He was a fisherman, farmer.
949
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:55,100
He was
a churchgoing young Lutheran boy
950
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:55,340
He was
who took his church seriously.
951
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:57,580
who took his church seriously.
952
00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:00,140
He was dispatched
953
00:45:00,140 --> 00:45:05,460
along with many other
young Nashos in 5RAR.
954
00:45:05,460 --> 00:45:07,900
After his basic military training
955
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:12,860
he joined 5th Battalion, 5RAR,
54th Royal Australian Regiment
956
00:45:12,860 --> 00:45:13,100
he joined 5th Battalion, 5RAR,
and went to Vietnam
957
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:14,380
and went to Vietnam
958
00:45:14,380 --> 00:45:18,620
and played a part
in building the base in Vung Tau,
959
00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:20,380
which at the time was just a beach.
960
00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:26,660
EKINS: He was on the first operation
961
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:30,460
where companies, in what is often
termed their shakedown operation,
962
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:33,220
familiarise themselves
with the area.
963
00:45:33,220 --> 00:45:36,260
We hopped out of the helicopters
964
00:45:36,260 --> 00:45:39,700
and, you know, and young soldiers
thinking this is pretty cool,
965
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:42,980
you know, out here patrolling
with live ammunition and weapons.
966
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:47,420
You know, we patrol with the weapon,
the bullets up the spout.
967
00:45:47,420 --> 00:45:49,460
But safety catch on.
968
00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:52,700
So, it was...it's the real thing.
969
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,100
Making their way through the scrub
970
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:02,980
outside Nui Dat,
971
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:03,220
still getting a feel
outside Nui Dat,
972
00:46:03,220 --> 00:46:06,020
still getting a feel
for the local landscape.
973
00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:09,260
Stopped
to refill their water bottles.
974
00:46:09,260 --> 00:46:09,500
I came back with that water
Stopped
to refill their water bottles.
975
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,980
I came back with that water
976
00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:13,900
and distributed the water
amongst our section.
977
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:14,180
and distributed the water
amongst our section.
Errol Noack, I'd walked over to him
and dropped his water off,
978
00:46:14,180 --> 00:46:17,780
Errol Noack, I'd walked over to him
and dropped his water off,
979
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:20,380
and he said to me, "Borge,"
that was my nickname,
980
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:23,580
he said, "What do you do
with these purifying tablets?"
981
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:28,620
As I was explaining it to him,
John, who was on the machine gun,
982
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:28,860
As I was explaining it to him,
called out to me.
983
00:46:28,860 --> 00:46:29,900
called out to me.
984
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:31,380
He said, "Hit the deck, Borge."
986
00:46:35,580 --> 00:46:39,220
At that instant,
there was just a roar and a thud.
987
00:46:42,140 --> 00:46:45,340
Errol got thrown back behind me.
988
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:50,140
Distance would have been
at least three metres, I would say,
989
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:50,380
Distance would have been
maybe even more.
990
00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:51,740
maybe even more.
991
00:46:51,740 --> 00:46:54,900
But I actually heard the thud
992
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:58,700
and I dived the other way
alongside John.
993
00:46:58,700 --> 00:46:58,940
and I dived the other way
I was the number two on the gun
994
00:46:58,940 --> 00:47:00,420
I was the number two on the gun
995
00:47:00,420 --> 00:47:03,020
and we started to return fire.
996
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:09,060
Not knowing what to expect,
997
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:10,900
I was thinking that all of a sudden
998
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:13,100
the screaming hordes
would come out in front of us
999
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:13,340
the screaming hordes
and run right over the top of us.
1000
00:47:13,340 --> 00:47:14,540
and run right over the top of us.
1001
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:14,780
And I thought, "Jeez, this might
and run right over the top of us.
1002
00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:17,700
And I thought, "Jeez, this might
be the end of me right here."
1003
00:47:19,540 --> 00:47:23,140
My Section Commander,
George Gilbert,
1004
00:47:23,140 --> 00:47:28,020
he stood up and started yelling out,
"We're Australians."
1005
00:47:28,020 --> 00:47:29,540
With that, everything stopped.
1006
00:47:36,060 --> 00:47:38,660
Errol was laying behind us.
1007
00:47:39,820 --> 00:47:41,860
I looked at him.
1008
00:47:41,860 --> 00:47:45,020
He was grey. He was a sickly grey.
1009
00:47:45,020 --> 00:47:47,140
And he was...
1010
00:47:47,140 --> 00:47:51,660
He was calling out to God.
He was saying he was dying and...
1011
00:47:56,580 --> 00:47:58,340
He was quickly evacuated,
1012
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:03,340
as quickly as they could get
an evacuation helicopter in nearby.
1013
00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:03,580
as quickly as they could get
But died on board the helicopter.
1014
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:05,820
But died on board the helicopter.
1015
00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:21,860
Initially the government, the army,
1016
00:48:21,860 --> 00:48:22,100
said that it was a skirmish
Initially the government, the army,
1017
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:26,700
said that it was a skirmish
with the Viet Cong.
1018
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:30,860
In fact, it turned out to be another
unit of Australian infantry
1019
00:48:30,860 --> 00:48:31,100
In fact, it turned out to be another
had fired on Errol's patrol.
1020
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:33,340
had fired on Errol's patrol.
1021
00:48:35,860 --> 00:48:37,500
This was deliberately covered up.
1022
00:48:38,860 --> 00:48:42,780
It was said that the reason
Errol had been shot
1023
00:48:42,780 --> 00:48:43,020
It was said that the reason
was that he stood up.
1024
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:44,460
was that he stood up.
1025
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:49,300
According to army doctrine,
you stay low.
1026
00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:53,820
Errol, the conscript, the man
who had not had the training,
1027
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:56,060
the implication being
he didn't have the training.
1028
00:48:56,060 --> 00:48:59,740
He didn't have the dedication
of full-time professional soldiers.
1029
00:48:59,740 --> 00:49:04,500
Really? No. He was doing, you know,
stood up, got shot, his fault.
1030
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,060
His comrades have since said
he did not stand up.
1031
00:49:07,060 --> 00:49:09,580
He did not...
That was not why he was shot.
1032
00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:10,900
It was not his fault.
1033
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:12,540
Errol never got up.
1034
00:49:12,540 --> 00:49:18,780
They said he got up
after the contact was started.
1035
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:19,020
They said he got up
Errol never had a chance.
1036
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:20,060
Errol never had a chance.
1037
00:49:20,060 --> 00:49:23,020
He was hit, I would say,
by the first round,
1038
00:49:23,020 --> 00:49:24,780
first actual round that was fired.
1039
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:26,740
That was...hit Errol.
1040
00:49:26,740 --> 00:49:31,620
Certainly would have had
significance to people back home.
1041
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:34,140
The politicians
were certainly worried about it.
1042
00:49:34,140 --> 00:49:38,700
And I'm sure that when the news
got back to my mum,
1043
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:40,740
she would have been horrified.
1044
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,340
I don't...I never told mum that I,
when I was there
1045
00:49:46,340 --> 00:49:46,580
I don't...I never told mum that I,
that I was alongside Errol when...
1046
00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:48,860
that I was alongside Errol when...
1047
00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:49,100
I didn't want to cause her
that I was alongside Errol when...
1048
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:51,660
I didn't want to cause her
any concern.
1049
00:50:14,060 --> 00:50:18,060
He was commemorated in two ways
after his death
1050
00:50:18,060 --> 00:50:21,300
in the task force
base that they were building,
1051
00:50:21,300 --> 00:50:25,300
the first Nasho was commemorated
in Noack Avenue.
1052
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:27,740
That was...a sign was set up.
1053
00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,220
They had to build street signs
into this base
1054
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:32,980
that was getting bigger and bigger
all the time.
1055
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:33,260
that was getting bigger and bigger
all the time.
And in Adelaide, the Cross
of Sacrifice at The Australian...
1056
00:50:33,260 --> 00:50:37,500
And in Adelaide, the Cross
of Sacrifice at The Australian...
1057
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:40,660
The South Australian War Memorial
on North Terrace in Adelaide
1058
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:45,500
was defaced by graffiti
by protesters who wrote...
1059
00:50:47,140 --> 00:50:49,540
"Errol Wayne Noack,"
1060
00:50:49,540 --> 00:50:49,740
"Errol Wayne Noack,"
and a date,
1061
00:50:49,740 --> 00:50:50,900
and a date,
1062
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:51,100
"His was not to reason why."
and a date,
1063
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:52,860
"His was not to reason why."
1064
00:51:05,660 --> 00:51:07,660
DR CAHILL: Down where I live,
1065
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:11,020
there's a major memorial
to the Vietnam War
1066
00:51:11,020 --> 00:51:14,540
with the list of all the people
on it who died.
1067
00:51:14,540 --> 00:51:14,780
with the list of all the people
And he's on it.
1068
00:51:14,780 --> 00:51:17,780
And he's on it.
1069
00:51:21,060 --> 00:51:24,700
And I look at that,
and all of the other names,
1070
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:29,580
and that almost
makes me weep when I see him there.
1071
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:34,340
BORGER: Yeah,
I shed a lot of tears now,
1072
00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:36,260
and I wouldn't have been
the only one.
1073
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:36,500
and I wouldn't have been
I didn't express it to anyone.
1074
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:37,700
I didn't express it to anyone.
1075
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:37,940
It was something of my own,
I didn't express it to anyone.
1076
00:51:37,940 --> 00:51:41,460
It was something of my own,
you know,
1077
00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:46,460
there by yourself in a harbour,
you know, in a defensive position,
1078
00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:46,700
there by yourself in a harbour,
you know, and it's pouring rain
1079
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:48,940
you know, and it's pouring rain
1080
00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:50,820
and you're living
like a mongrel dog.
1081
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:53,380
You're missing home.
You're missing your parents.
1082
00:51:53,380 --> 00:51:55,700
Yeah.
1083
00:51:57,980 --> 00:51:59,140
Yeah.
1084
00:51:59,140 --> 00:52:01,740
And you know that the next day
you get up, it all starts again.
1085
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:07,180
Met his father,
devastated about it all,
1086
00:52:07,180 --> 00:52:12,820
but he couldn't accept that his son
should say he was killed...
1087
00:52:14,740 --> 00:52:16,780
..by friendly fire. So...
1088
00:52:16,780 --> 00:52:21,620
One day in Vietnam or one day
in an operation and he's dead.
1089
00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:21,860
One day in Vietnam or one day
Why wouldn't he be bitter?
1090
00:52:21,860 --> 00:52:24,100
Why wouldn't he be bitter?
1091
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:25,980
He wanted to feel proud
about his son,
1092
00:52:25,980 --> 00:52:28,220
and he should be proud about his son
because he done nothing wrong.
1093
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:37,700
NEWSREEL: The Sydney sailed
in April
1094
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:39,900
with 400 men
of the first task force.
1095
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:43,660
They replace the 1st Battalion,
who came home in June.
1096
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:48,340
When 1RAR sailed back to Australia
in June 1966
1097
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:48,580
When 1RAR sailed back to Australia
after its one-year deployment,
1098
00:52:48,580 --> 00:52:50,260
after its one-year deployment,
1099
00:52:50,260 --> 00:52:53,220
the unit
returned to a hero's welcome.
1100
00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:57,380
Over 300,000 people turned out
to greet them in Sydney.
1101
00:53:02,780 --> 00:53:06,140
It's a reminder that, one,
that the war was very popular
1102
00:53:06,140 --> 00:53:09,260
and two, that soldiers, I think,
still have that central position
1103
00:53:09,260 --> 00:53:09,500
and two, that soldiers, I think,
in Australian sort of cultural life
1104
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:11,180
in Australian sort of cultural life
1105
00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:14,340
and the sort of centrality
of the Anzac and things like that.
1106
00:53:17,660 --> 00:53:20,700
WOMAN: We had television on
for the news, as we always did,
1107
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:25,820
and there was this great marching
column of soldiers through Sydney
1108
00:53:25,820 --> 00:53:30,140
and this woman on her own
just stepping out of the crowd.
1109
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:33,700
NEWSREEL: Only one incident
marred the proceedings.
1110
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:37,260
A young typist daubed with red paint
grabbed at the march leader,
1111
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:40,060
Lieutenant Colonel Preece,
smearing his uniform.
1112
00:53:40,060 --> 00:53:43,620
Then she ran, clawing among
the first two ranks of soldiers
1113
00:53:43,620 --> 00:53:46,420
until she was dragged away
by a senior police officer.
1114
00:53:46,420 --> 00:53:48,940
Later fined
and put on a good behaviour bond,
1115
00:53:48,940 --> 00:53:50,780
she explained she had wanted to show
1116
00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:53,700
that some disagreed
with the war in Vietnam.
1117
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:59,380
I was just transfixed
by this bravery and...
1118
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:03,540
..metaphorical power of this action.
1119
00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:06,940
Uh, I thought it was wonderful.
1120
00:54:09,980 --> 00:54:13,500
She had on her own
decided this war was really immoral
1121
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:13,740
She had on her own
and wanted to do something
1122
00:54:13,740 --> 00:54:15,020
and wanted to do something
1123
00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:15,260
and had planned this action
and wanted to do something
1124
00:54:15,260 --> 00:54:17,780
and had planned this action
completely alone.
1125
00:54:17,780 --> 00:54:21,100
I've never heard of anything
so brave.
1126
00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:26,860
Nadine Jensen
was not part of any organisation
1127
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:27,100
Nadine Jensen
and when she was taken to court,
1128
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:30,980
and when she was taken to court,
1129
00:54:30,980 --> 00:54:33,940
bedraggled and covered in red paint,
1130
00:54:33,940 --> 00:54:35,900
the judge just assumed she was mad.
1131
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:38,660
The judge thought
she needed mental treatment.
1132
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:41,540
Why would anyone do this?
They couldn't understand.
1133
00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:45,420
Obviously, Jensen's point,
Nadine's point,
1134
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:46,860
was to show the blood
1135
00:54:46,860 --> 00:54:51,380
that was on the hands, in her mind,
of the Australian military.
1136
00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:56,220
But to, perhaps ordinary
conservative Australians,
1137
00:54:56,220 --> 00:54:59,460
there's a mad woman covered in
red paint running at some soldiers.
1138
00:54:59,460 --> 00:55:02,060
Nadine Jensen's lone protest
1139
00:55:02,060 --> 00:55:06,220
has had a lasting impact
in our cultural memory.
1140
00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:13,420
MAN: The issues that I had
when we came back from Vietnam,
1141
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:18,820
the 7th Battalion, we marched up
George Street, come past Town Hall,
1142
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:19,100
and it was this hairy under-armed,
bloody hippie sheila.
the 7th Battalion, we marched up
George Street, come past Town Hall,
1143
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:22,700
and it was this hairy under-armed,
bloody hippie sheila.
1144
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:26,340
She ran out with a can of red paint
and threw it on me
1145
00:55:26,340 --> 00:55:26,580
She ran out with a can of red paint
and a couple of mates.
1146
00:55:26,580 --> 00:55:28,860
and a couple of mates.
1147
00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:29,100
and a couple of mates.
She called us murderers,
child killers and rapists.
1148
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:35,100
She called us murderers,
child killers and rapists.
1149
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:40,020
You know, to come home
to something like that...
1150
00:55:40,020 --> 00:55:43,700
For someone in my country
saying that to us,
1151
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:49,020
"murderers, child killers
and rapists," we didn't do that.
1152
00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:51,620
And we didn't deserve
someone like that to say it to us.
1153
00:55:53,780 --> 00:55:58,220
MAN: The hangover from Vietnam went
on for years and years and years.
1154
00:55:58,220 --> 00:56:00,380
It's just the way we were treated
when we came home.
1155
00:56:00,380 --> 00:56:00,620
It's just the way we were treated
We were treated just like dirt.
1156
00:56:00,620 --> 00:56:03,340
We were treated just like dirt.
1157
00:56:03,340 --> 00:56:03,580
Some of our fellows
We were treated just like dirt.
1158
00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:07,580
Some of our fellows
were drenched with red paint,
1159
00:56:07,580 --> 00:56:07,820
spat at, abused, you know.
Some of our fellows
were drenched with red paint,
1160
00:56:07,820 --> 00:56:11,820
spat at, abused, you know.
1161
00:56:11,820 --> 00:56:14,620
I remember a couple of drunken women
screaming at us
1162
00:56:14,620 --> 00:56:19,180
as we marched past a pub in,
not far from Garden Island.
1163
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:26,540
It was just...just very, you know,
just really disappointing.
1164
00:56:28,140 --> 00:56:31,380
These sorts of stories
of anti-war abuse.
1165
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:31,660
These have been circulating
in the broader community
These sorts of stories
of anti-war abuse.
1166
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:33,900
These have been circulating
in the broader community
1167
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:36,140
and in pop culture for decades now.
1168
00:56:36,140 --> 00:56:39,060
And they seem to represent
very real feelings
1169
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:39,300
And they seem to represent
of alienation and exclusion.
1170
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:41,620
of alienation and exclusion.
1171
00:56:41,620 --> 00:56:44,140
This sort of goes back
to the Anzac legend.
1172
00:56:44,140 --> 00:56:45,020
There was this expectation
1173
00:56:45,020 --> 00:56:48,740
that soldiers would be treated
as the pinnacle of masculinity,
1174
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:48,980
that soldiers would be treated
that they would be celebrated.
1175
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:50,780
that they would be celebrated.
1176
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:54,100
And it sets up this expectation
when you speak about war in abstract
1177
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:54,340
And it sets up this expectation
as this beautiful, heroic thing.
1178
00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:56,260
as this beautiful, heroic thing.
1179
00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:56,500
The reality when soldiers
as this beautiful, heroic thing.
1180
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:58,740
The reality when soldiers
have been through something
1181
00:56:58,740 --> 00:56:58,980
The reality when soldiers
that they suffered through,
1182
00:56:58,980 --> 00:57:00,260
that they suffered through,
1183
00:57:00,260 --> 00:57:02,540
that was a struggle for them
and they come home
1184
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:06,260
and they feel like the public's
not completely with them,
1185
00:57:06,260 --> 00:57:08,500
it's understandable
that they feel really let down.
1186
00:57:11,620 --> 00:57:12,660
Mmm.
1187
00:57:17,260 --> 00:57:21,940
DAPIN: Many, many veterans now talk
of being smeared with blood.
1188
00:57:21,940 --> 00:57:23,460
They say,
"We were smeared with blood.
1189
00:57:23,460 --> 00:57:23,700
They say,
"We were smeared with red paint."
1190
00:57:23,700 --> 00:57:25,540
"We were smeared with red paint."
1191
00:57:25,540 --> 00:57:28,180
When veterans speak of 'we' or 'I',
1192
00:57:28,180 --> 00:57:33,100
they are often speaking
of a kind of collective there.
1193
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:35,620
They're speaking...they're speaking
both from a collective memory
1194
00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:37,620
and with a kind
of collective consciousness.
1195
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:40,460
So, a lot of veterans might say,
you know,
1196
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:40,700
So, a lot of veterans might say,
"I had red paint thrown on me."
1197
00:57:40,700 --> 00:57:42,940
"I had red paint thrown on me."
1198
00:57:42,940 --> 00:57:45,140
They don't mean
that they specifically
1199
00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:46,220
had red paint thrown on me.
1200
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:49,180
They believe that their service
was doused in red paint.
1201
00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:51,460
They believe that their service
was doused in blood.
1202
00:57:51,460 --> 00:57:54,980
They believe that their service
was subject to a blood libel.
1203
00:57:54,980 --> 00:57:57,220
It's interesting as well,
1204
00:57:57,220 --> 00:58:00,780
although I suspect
just a coincidence
1205
00:58:00,780 --> 00:58:01,020
although I suspect
that it happened to be a woman,
1206
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:03,740
that it happened to be a woman,
1207
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:07,060
because if you look at the stories
1208
00:58:07,060 --> 00:58:10,300
that veterans tell about
the responses they get
1209
00:58:10,300 --> 00:58:11,420
when they got home,
1210
00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:14,500
it's often a woman
who's spitting on them.
1211
00:58:14,500 --> 00:58:16,700
It's often a woman
who's sneering at them.
1212
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:20,020
It's often a woman
who's denigrating their service.
1213
00:58:20,020 --> 00:58:23,060
And that woman,
I've come to believe,
1214
00:58:23,060 --> 00:58:28,820
is often an imaginary
reiteration of Nadine Jensen.
1215
00:58:37,100 --> 00:58:39,340
They knew that if they called
on an Australian artillery,
1216
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:41,580
they got them
where they wanted them.
1217
00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:42,940
You yell, we shell.
1218
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:45,660
So developed the Battle of Long Tan.
1219
00:58:45,660 --> 00:58:45,900
So developed the Battle of Long Tan.
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,
1220
00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:48,660
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,
1221
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:48,940
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.
WOMAN: It was very obvious
that the war was wrong,
1222
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:51,820
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.
1223
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:52,100
If you had taken an interest in it.
And I had.
They survived simply through
bravery. And sheer luck.
1224
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,540
They survived simply through
bravery. And sheer luck.
1225
00:58:55,540 --> 00:58:55,780
They survived simply through
And they all knew it.
1226
00:58:55,780 --> 00:58:56,860
And they all knew it.
1227
00:58:56,860 --> 00:58:58,500
Captions by Red Bee Media
1228
00:58:58,500 --> 00:58:58,740
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Captions by Red Bee Media
1229
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:00,700
Copyright
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
107018
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