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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:10,240 This programme contains some strong language 2 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,280 Las Vegas. It isn't just a city. 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:24,120 It's the world's largest, brightest, brashest neon work of art. 4 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,880 I also think it's a perfect symbol 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,480 of what America's been for so much of the modern age. 6 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:38,800 It stands for its irrepressible, unsleeping, 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,640 can-do spirit of optimism. 8 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,360 This astonishing something created out of nothing. 9 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,520 An Emerald City rising where 100 years ago, 10 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,040 there was just desert. 11 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,800 Like the rest of America, Vegas was built on an ideal, 12 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,960 a place where anyone can turn fantasy into reality. 13 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:07,200 Where anyone can get rich. 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,880 Where anyone can become President. 15 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,880 Free market, free society, that was the dream. 16 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,280 But is it all a mirage? 17 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,000 In the new world of the 21st century, 18 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,080 America seems like a country in crisis, 19 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,920 a nation that's lost its swagger, 20 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,840 and along with that the belief that ITS values, life, liberty, 21 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,800 the pursuit of happiness, 22 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,560 should be THE core values of the civilised world. 23 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:48,400 It's become a more plural society, but also a more anxious one. 24 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,320 And I think if you want to truly understand the vast changes 25 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,360 that have transformed America's ways of seeing and thinking, 26 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,080 there's no better way to do that 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,160 than by exploring the story of American art. 28 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,040 In the years after World War II, suburban America 29 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,760 became the battleground for the soul of the nation. 30 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,880 An unprecedented economic boom enabled ordinary Americans 31 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,400 to enjoy all the pleasures of modern life. 32 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:46,160 Motorcars, fridges, freezers, television sets. 33 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,000 But this sense of security was bought at a price. 34 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,160 The invention of the atom bomb brought about a new world order. 35 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,840 From now on, the USA and the Soviet Union 36 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,440 would be locked in a rival nuclear stalemate, 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,040 each defining itself as hero nation 38 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,240 with a mission to vanquish the enemy. 39 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,560 And with the most deadly of all weapons available to the Russians, 40 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,640 no people in the world can feel secure against this aggression. 41 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,320 We believe in freedom. 42 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:30,200 Freedom, born of the conviction that every person is a child of God, 43 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,280 and is therefore of supreme worth. 44 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,440 We want freedom for ourselves, for everyone. 45 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,120 In Russia, the state owned everything. 46 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:56,240 The American way was about private home ownership and free enterprise. 47 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:56,600 In the late '40s, the US government encouraged entrepreneur builders 48 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,120 The American way was about private home ownership and free enterprise. 49 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,840 In the late '40s, the US government encouraged entrepreneur builders 50 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,000 like William J Levitt, to create affordable homes for the masses. 51 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,480 Levittown, in Long Island, New York, is a perfect example 52 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,760 of the new American suburbs that went up in the 1940s and 1950s. 53 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:22,600 17,500 houses constructed in just four years. 54 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,880 Built from cheap affordable materials, 55 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,200 and assembled using a version of the same production-line process 56 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,400 that Henry Ford had applied to the mass manufacture of automobiles. 57 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,280 These simple, box-like structures 58 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:39,720 were the homes of a new form of the American Dream. 59 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,280 But if Levittown's cookie-cutter houses all looked the same, 60 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:55,720 then so did the faces. 61 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,200 Levittown rules explicitly barred any residents 62 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,360 who were not of the Caucasian race. 63 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,160 The dream might be for you 64 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,280 if you were a white Anglo-Saxon patriot, preferably male. 65 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,120 But of course, beneath the surface, 66 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,000 America was teeming with desperate housewives, 67 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,720 blacks, Hispanics, and many others 68 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,960 whose fears and frustrations remained completely obscured. 69 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,720 In 1954, small-town Southern boy, Jasper Johns, 70 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,400 settled in New York city, 71 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,880 and began to paint the ultimate symbol of American-ness. 72 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,280 The Stars and Stripes. 73 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,720 He painted subtle variations on it, 74 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,680 but always fetishising the same familiar image. 75 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,480 At the time, most American artists were painting 76 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,960 intellectual abstractions. 77 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,600 Johns' flags seemed refreshingly new and direct. 78 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,040 But what were they? 79 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,280 Outpourings of patriotic fervour? 80 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:13,320 A different kind of abstraction? 81 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,600 Or something else? 82 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,800 The Metropolitan Museum in New York houses my favourite 83 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,080 of Johns' flags, painted not in the usual red white and blue, 84 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,120 but simply white and on a vast scale. 85 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,200 When Johns first presented his flag pictures 86 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,480 to the American public in the 1950s, 87 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,120 he was extremely reticent about their meanings. 88 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,840 He said, "I simply paint things the mind already knows." 89 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:50,400 The implication being that the flag was almost a non-subject, 90 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,840 it was such a universally recognisable symbol 91 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:54,960 that what meaning could it possibly possess? 92 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,440 These were purely formal paintings. 93 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,880 What a load of nonsense. 94 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:07,800 These are angry, passionate pictures, 95 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,800 they are Johns' way of saying, of expressing 96 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,680 what he felt was wrong with American society in the 1950s. 97 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,680 Contentless? 98 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,600 Hardly. 99 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,960 Look at what this picture is made of. 100 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,960 It's made of a collage of newsprint, 101 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,600 a babble of muffled American voices, 102 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:38,240 muffled by this thick heavy layer of encaustic beeswax oil-paint. 103 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,680 The picture is a metaphor. 104 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,560 The picture is a metaphor for Johns' perception that America is a place 105 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,240 where you're supposed to have freedom of speech, 106 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,640 you're supposed to have freedom of behaviour 107 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,040 but actually, you don't. 108 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,520 This is a picture of America, as it were, buried beneath 109 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,720 the thick, heavy snow of a cold 110 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,680 and illiberal idea 111 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080 of patriotic duty. 112 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,360 Johns had good reason to be anxious about the moral status quo. 113 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,440 He was living in a homosexual relationship 114 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,440 with artist Robert Rauschenberg, 115 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,800 which was not only illegal, 116 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,440 but in an age of McCarthyite witch-hunts, 117 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,680 it could also get you branded as a dangerous commie subversive. 118 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,800 To be a fine, upstanding member of American society, 119 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,480 you had to embrace all its values, 120 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,680 above all, the freedom to shop. 121 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,960 This was the moment when advertising came of age, 122 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,800 when ad men learnt how to stop lecturing, 123 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,440 and instead practise the dark arts of seduction. 124 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,840 They exploited hyperreal colours 125 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,720 and graphic brand logos to repeat the mantra, 126 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,440 "You can never have too much". 127 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,640 By the early '60s, 128 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,680 a new generation of artists 129 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,520 was confronting the strangeness of consumer society. 130 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,400 Jasper Johns and his flags had already begun 131 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,640 to dig beneath the surface of America's brave new world. 132 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,640 Those who followed called themselves pop artists, 133 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,480 their subject being popular culture. 134 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,520 Their work seemed just as enticing 135 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,200 as the goods piled high in the new shopping malls... 136 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,040 but it concealed a bitter aftertaste. 137 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Claes Oldenburg made supersize, 138 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,960 floppily repulsive hamburgers out of stuffed cloth 139 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,640 as if to lay bare 140 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,240 the excesses provoked by the rise of fast food chains. 141 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,960 The dot matrix language of comics 142 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,400 inspired the work of Roy Lichtenstein, 143 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,840 but always with an uneasy sense that the modern world 144 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,520 was simplifying human emotions to cartoon stereotypes. 145 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,240 James Rosenquist created vast canvases of collaged images, 146 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,480 poster-bright impressions of the modern world, 147 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,320 mimicking the vomitous splurge 148 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,320 of America's yowling jungle of signs. 149 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,840 Like most pop artists, Rosenquist began as a commercial artist, 150 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,760 part of the very establishment that he would go on to parody 151 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,920 in his later work. 152 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,640 Now 77, 153 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,920 Rosenquist is one of the last truly great surviving pop artists. 154 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,160 And he's still making his vast pictures. 155 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,600 Here's a late number I did this year. 156 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,040 It's called, 157 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:24,120 "The Richest Person Looking At A Universe... 158 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,400 "Through A Hubcap." 159 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,120 It's not THE universe, it's A universe 160 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,360 because there's many universes. 161 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,480 In his early years, Rosenquist earned a living 162 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,680 by painting ads on the billboards of Times Square. 163 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,360 That's him, bottom right. 164 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,040 I painted everything you can imagine 165 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:45,880 in Times Square, 166 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,640 from food, 167 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,560 to movie stars, 168 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,800 to everything. 169 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,840 I mean, you know, when I was painting big movie stars, 170 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,920 their heads were as wide as this room. 171 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,320 So I'd paint the hair down to the eyelid, right here, 172 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,320 it was a good place to stop for blending skin. 173 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,840 Then after lunch, I'd paint from the eye 174 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,840 all the way down cheeks 175 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,560 which were multicoloured pastel things, 176 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,760 down to the corner of the lips. 177 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,160 Paint the top lip, 178 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,160 and then next morning finish the job. 179 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,160 You took all that and put it in your art, billboard scale, 180 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,720 colours that shout at you, 181 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,760 images that shout at you, 182 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,400 was there a part of you that actually was in love with that, 183 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,840 that was seduced by it? 184 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,560 No, I thought they were terrible! They were like... 185 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,720 eyesores! 186 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,560 Since I was a kid I listened to, 187 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:48,400 # Rinse so white rinse so white Happy little wash day song... # 188 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,840 I hated fucking advertising. 189 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,720 I hated it all my life and here I was, 190 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,320 painting gigantic advertisements in Times Square. 191 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,440 So I began to think, 192 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,440 "Can I take fragments of billboard imagery, 193 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,720 "assemble them in a picture plane, that meant nothing." 194 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,320 If you look hard enough, it means nothing. 195 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:12,920 Are you saying to me 196 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,040 that those wonderful, huge, early works, 197 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,760 are you saying that they are in a sense anti-billboards, 198 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,680 kind of cutting against...? 199 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,960 Exactly, exactly. 200 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,240 This enlarged imagery is really empty. 201 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,840 And that's what I wanted to show. 202 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,160 The one pop artist whose work seemed to embrace consumerism 203 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,600 was Andy Warhol. 204 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,640 He took America's most familiar mass-produced objects 205 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,080 and re-presented them as art, 206 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,800 an art of numb repetition 207 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,320 that mimicked the production line. 208 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,840 His critics accused him of selling out, 209 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,280 but they didn't get the true starkness of his message. 210 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,840 There's a common misconception about Andy Warhol, 211 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,800 the idea that he was a mere gimmick-monger, 212 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,840 a trickster on the New York art scene, 213 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,120 a man purely obsessed by celebrity, 214 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,520 status and money. 215 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,200 But it's not true. 216 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,800 Andy Warhol... 217 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,360 was, for my money, 218 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,480 the single most significant American artist 219 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,040 of the second half of the 20th century, 220 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,680 a great philosopher, describer, 221 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,040 a man who really understood 222 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,880 what it was that made 223 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,480 this new, post-war American civilisation 224 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,520 unlike any other civilisation that had preceded it. 225 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,240 In this world there's variety, 226 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,760 but only of a certain kind. 227 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,280 That's the subject of this, 228 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,240 one of his earliest series of pictures 229 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,680 I think it's one of his greatest series of pictures, 230 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,760 the Campbell's soup tins. 231 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,800 We begin with tomato soup, 232 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,600 vegetable soup, green pea soup, 233 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,880 we come all the way through to bean with bacon soup, 234 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,560 cream of chicken soup, turkey noodle, 235 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,120 minestrone Italian style vegetable soup, 236 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,320 new "great as a sauce too" 237 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,720 Cheddar cheese soup. 238 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,520 You can have all this, 239 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,680 but then again everyone else can have all this too. 240 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,440 It's variety, but it's also a trap. 241 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,280 And I love the way that the paintings are laid out, 242 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,000 almost as if they're lining a cell 243 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,760 that you can pace, 244 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,720 but you can't ever escape from. 245 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,520 I think this is Warhol's way of saying, 246 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,840 "This is your world, America. 247 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,920 "This is the prison you've made for yourself." 248 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,440 To help him generate his mass-produced art, 249 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,480 Warhol surrounded himself with a group of free spirits 250 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,000 in The Factory, 251 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,960 his aptly-named Manhattan studio. 252 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:03,200 It was THE hip hangout for bohemians, 253 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,320 speed freaks, 254 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,440 anyone hoping to attain 255 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Warhol's 15 minutes of fame. 256 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,520 So glamorous! Oh! 257 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,280 One of The Factory stalwarts was photographer Billy Name, 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,120 who started out as Warhol's lover, 259 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,320 but quickly became the visual chronicler of The Factory scene. 260 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,400 45 years on, 261 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,560 Billy lives in the town of Poughkeepsie 262 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,240 in upstate New York. 263 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,120 These are actually 264 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,120 silkscreen prints of some of my photographs. 265 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,800 Here's Andy on the telephone. 266 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,520 Now what's more important than Andy on the telephone? 267 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,280 In the early years especially, 268 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,200 he was always on the telephone. 269 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,200 You were the original fly on the wall, 270 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,600 I mean, in the sense that you were so ever present 271 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,600 people just stopped seeing you. I was. 272 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,760 They stopped seeing you, you could just record what was going on. 273 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,800 I just could live there, be there, 274 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,160 and no-one would even pay any attention to me. 275 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,000 And I did know Andy from the time he was a commercial artist, 276 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,000 through the transition period to when he was a celebrated fine artist. 277 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,200 So I went through that whole period with him. 278 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,760 So I've known all the changes, all the Andys and... 279 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,200 All the Andys! I like it! 280 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,840 If you wanted to explain to somebody who'd never heard of Andy Warhol, 281 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,320 you know, who never knew who this guy was, 282 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,040 you know, what would you say the point of those Brillo boxes 283 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,760 and those Del Monte boxes, 284 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,720 you know, remade and presented as works of art? 285 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,360 What was he trying to say, 286 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,880 or what were you all trying to communicate with this? 287 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,120 Well, what we were trying to say was that 288 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,040 you live in art. 289 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,000 You go to the supermarket 290 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000 and you go down the rows of cans and they're all just 291 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,600 stacks and stacks 292 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,440 of icons on your shelves, 293 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,280 and you're living in art. 294 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,600 And Andy was fascinated with the lucidity of repetition, 295 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,680 the absolute clarity of what you can see 296 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,040 because in a supermarket they really want you to see what's there. 297 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,960 And so we produced 298 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,200 these boxes like the Brillo box 299 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,480 in a numerous occasion so you saw what was there, 300 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,120 and you could not escape the Brillo box 301 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:21,960 and the reality of it. 302 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,560 I think of him as almost like a mirror, 303 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,200 I think of his art like a mirror. Yes. 304 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,280 It's like, "Look, this is your world, I'm mirroring it to you." 305 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,720 He is, yes. 306 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,080 The older artists considered 307 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,960 the artist as a hero 308 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,360 whereas when Andy came, 309 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,080 he was the artist as a zero. 310 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,680 The previous generation had been, 311 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,160 turn your back on the surface culture, 312 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,600 you don't want to deal with that, it's cheap, 313 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,960 it's shallow, and don't go into that water. 314 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,880 Whereas Warhol would say, 315 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,600 instead of turning our back on it, 316 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,320 let's just turn around, face it, and take it over and manipulate it. 317 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,720 Warhol saw that America treated celebrities 318 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,400 just as it treated products, 319 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,840 as objects replicated for mass consumption. 320 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,320 A single image, screenprinted over and over, 321 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,080 evokes a row of magazine covers, 322 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,280 the frames of a film, 323 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,120 a stack of TV screens. 324 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,240 But Warhol's most powerful work 325 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,280 is his "Death and Disaster" series, begun in 1962. 326 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,920 Race riots. 327 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,320 Atomic bombs. 328 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,960 Electric chairs. 329 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,240 Car crashes. 330 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,080 All are made from actual press photographs. 331 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,800 In America, 332 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,920 even death is reproduced 333 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,920 and homogenised. 334 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,680 I think what Warhol was driving at 335 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,320 in those pictures was the way in which the big media, 336 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,840 television and the newspapers, 337 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,840 were desensitising Americans by exposing them continually 338 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,680 to horrific images, whether of war, or of car crashes. 339 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,520 Warhol said in relation to the car crash paintings, 340 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,080 "When you see a gruesome image once, it shocks you, 341 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,200 "when you see it again and again and again, 342 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,200 "you stop thinking about it, it stops bothering you". 343 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,240 I think he felt that something 344 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,200 strange and bizarre and unpleasant 345 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,360 was happening to the American psyche, 346 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,560 he felt that Americans were being desensitised. 347 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,200 Perhaps his darkest statement of all 348 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,680 was simply when he said, 349 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,640 "I think in the 1960s, 350 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,800 "Americans forgot what emotions were supposed to be, 351 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,840 "and I don't think they've ever remembered." 352 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,480 Warhol portrayed the car 353 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,720 as just another of America's morbid machines, 354 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,600 mass producing road crash deaths 355 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,040 for tabloid readers to gawk at. 356 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,120 But others saw the car in a far more romantic light. 357 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,320 It was a way to leave behind 358 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,160 the suburbs and the shopping malls... 359 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,000 ..and disappear down the endless open road. 360 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,120 As Jack Kerouac wrote, 361 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,920 "Nothing behind me, everything ahead of me, 362 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,920 "as is ever so on the road." 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,600 For several generations of American artists, 364 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,920 above all American photographers, 365 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,720 the car on the road, 366 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,200 becomes, literally, 367 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,000 a mobile studio-cum-darkroom, 368 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,040 from which... 369 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,640 a whole series of photographers create 370 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,640 a set of disconcerting, 371 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,400 kaleidoscopically fractured images of America, all seen 372 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,400 from the perspective of the two lane blacktop. 373 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,640 When pictured from a car, 374 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,760 the subtle differences and dissonances of American society 375 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,600 often became more apparent. 376 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,760 The road photographers showed 377 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,720 that within Warhol's mass-produced society, 378 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,040 same church, 379 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,360 same shopping mall, 380 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:33,520 same gas station, 381 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,200 there was still room for the individual. 382 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,800 And that people who seemed rootless, 383 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,320 alienated and unhappy, 384 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,920 still travelled on in search of a better life 385 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,760 somewhere else. 386 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,840 Because in one form or another, 387 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,600 the trailblazing spirit 388 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,600 still lived on in America. 389 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,680 PRESIDENT JOHN F KENNEDY: 'We choose to go to the moon 390 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,280 'because that challenge is one we're willing to accept, 391 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520 'and one we intend to win.' 392 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,840 As the US and Russia raced skywards 393 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,480 to reach the furthest frontiers of space, 394 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,080 ordinary men and women 395 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,960 followed their astronaut heroes 396 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,840 from the comfort of their living rooms. 397 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,840 But for anyone in search of their own frontier, 398 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,080 American history favoured just one direction - 399 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,080 west. 400 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,960 A century after the last pioneers trekked across the continent, 401 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,520 the west was still seen as the direction of progress - 402 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,720 the future. 403 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,560 And if you kept going west, you reached Los Angeles. 404 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,520 In the '60s, it was one of the youngest, 405 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,440 fastest-growing cities in America, 406 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,920 home to Walt Disney's first theme park, 407 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,200 and of course, Hollywood. 408 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,320 Here, the car was not only a symbol of freedom, 409 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,120 it was a necessity, 410 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,000 the only way to navigate a city so vast, 411 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,600 so strung out. 412 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,920 I'll never forget the first time I came to LA, 413 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,320 I was very young, it was a very long time ago. 414 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,080 I rented a Buick and I set off 415 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,440 with naive enthusiasm 416 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,920 to find the centre of this great megalopolis. 417 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,000 After about three days of driving and driving 418 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,680 and driving and driving, 419 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,880 the penny suddenly dropped, I realised 420 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,760 this is a city that doesn't HAVE a centre! 421 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,400 What it's got 422 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,920 is a huge sprawl 423 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,040 of districts and neighbourhoods, seemingly the same as each other, 424 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,600 all linked together by a vast spaghetti of a road system. 425 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,800 I have to say I hated the whole experience, 426 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,760 I found it thoroughly alienating. 427 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,480 I just couldn't cope with it. 428 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,160 Now over the years, 429 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,120 I feel I have learned, 430 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,600 actually, to appreciate and enjoy this place, 431 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,360 and I now think of LA as one of the most thrilling, vibrant, 432 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,640 visually exhilarating built environments 433 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,680 ever created by mankind. 434 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,720 But it took something to unlock 435 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,240 that in me, and what that something was, 436 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,600 was the art created by painters who've lived here in LA, 437 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,640 it was looking at how they painted the city, 438 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,280 at how they saw the city, 439 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,680 that taught ME how to enjoy it. 440 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,520 For artists, LA was a place 441 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,800 free of the long, European oriented history of the East coast, 442 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,240 a blank canvas on which to experiment. 443 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,680 The quality of light was different here. 444 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,920 Richard Diebenkorn saw the city's bright planes of colour, 445 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,640 the sky, the sea, the tarmac, and distilled them in paint - 446 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,120 romantic images that borrowed from cubism and expressionism, 447 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,280 to conjure an abstract beauty 448 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,560 from LA's endless samey sprawl. 449 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,800 Wayne Thiebaud's candy-coloured objects of desire 450 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,800 captured the plastic brightness 451 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,160 of LA's must-have pop culture, 452 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,400 a sickly-sweet temptation. 453 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,400 And Ed Ruscha used advertising's flat graphic shorthand 454 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,240 to pick out some of LA's defining images. 455 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,920 Back in '56, 456 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,560 Ed Ruscha had left Oklahoma City 457 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,560 to follow the same route as countless wannabe starlets, 458 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,800 west to LA. 459 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,600 His pop art paintings of the Hollywood sign 460 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,720 seem at first glance to glory in the thrill of Tinseltown, 461 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,440 in this case 462 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,040 a big screen sunset as seen from behind the sign, 463 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,080 up in the Hollywood hills. 464 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240 It doesn't take long to realise, 465 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,400 in fact pretty much as soon as you get here 466 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,000 you realise you can't actually achieve the point of view 467 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,080 suggested by Ruscha's painting 468 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,160 because he's placed the Hollywood sign 469 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,760 on the summit of a hill that doesn't actually exist, 470 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,240 the sign's on the side. 471 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,800 I think that's part of the joke of the painting, 472 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,960 I think it's an affectionately artificial play 473 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,560 on the artifice that he saw as being central 474 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,600 to this whole culture. 475 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,040 He saw the Hollywood sign as, if you like, 476 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,680 the quintessence of Hollywood itself. 477 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,840 As he said with a mixture of affection and irony, 478 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,360 "This is what Hollywood is, 479 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,560 "a piece of fakery held up on sticks." 480 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,760 LA in the '60s just loved artificiality. 481 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,840 From the unfeasibly tall imported palm trees 482 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,480 to the shape of the buildings, this was a city inventing itself. 483 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320 Its unique new architecture 484 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,400 was known as Googie. 485 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,480 Cheeky, referential, 486 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,640 evoking a stack of jukebox records, 487 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,360 or the speedfins of a Cadillac, 488 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:33,440 it borrowed from the language of the car, 489 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,960 the space rocket, 490 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,000 the subatomic particle. 491 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,200 This was modernism 492 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,440 for the space age. 493 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,520 I think the only way to really get the crazy beauty of LA 494 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,440 is to drive through the city at night. 495 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,680 When you do that, you realise this whole place... 496 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,560 ..is a kind of extraordinary, 497 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,040 vast collective work of art. 498 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,800 And the reason for that, is the fact 499 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,520 that this is a city where everyone is always on the move. 500 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,080 And that's why 501 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,600 the architecture and the signage of LA 502 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,200 has to shout in the way that it does, 503 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,480 because it needs you to stop. 504 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,880 It's saying, "Hey, buddy, come and buy my liquor, 505 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,000 "come and get some gas, 506 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,440 "enjoy the live nude girls, girls girls!" 507 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,880 That's why this is, 508 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,520 more than any other city in the world, 509 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,520 it's the city of the sign. 510 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,040 As the signs and symbols of advertising 511 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,240 crowded in ever closer on American life, 512 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,720 so pop art had mirrored the excesses 513 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,120 of capitalism's increasingly loud, 514 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,920 evangelical gospel - 515 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:53,960 to consume. 516 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,920 But a new wave of artists was emerging, 517 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,120 who seemed to reflect a more puritanical side 518 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160 of the American character. 519 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,040 They were known as the minimalists. 520 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,840 They shared the pop artists' cool disdain for consumer society, 521 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,320 but took a profoundly different approach to it in their art. 522 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,880 What the minimalists hated about pop art 523 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,880 was its apparent celebration of the bright, 524 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,160 gaudy, tacky packaging 525 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,240 in which American consumerism wrapped itself. 526 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,200 Its embrace of the whole ethos 527 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,880 of mass marketing and advertising, 528 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,680 the ethos of buy two get one free, 57 varieties, the hard sell. 529 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,920 The minimalists didn't avert their gaze 530 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,280 from characteristic spaces of American life 531 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,480 but they looked at them with different eyes, 532 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,560 like Andy Warhol with his Campbell soup tin paintings, 533 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,640 they drew inspiration from the supermarket. 534 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,800 And while they purged 535 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,080 and purified it of colour, 536 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,280 image, 537 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,480 detail, 538 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,320 packaging, they still retained its strategies and its forms. 539 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,400 Theirs would be an art 540 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,080 made from mute accumulations of objects, 541 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,920 carefully composed, 542 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,880 rigorously arranged, 543 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,400 neatly stacked. 544 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,080 The minimalists reflected the coldness of consumerism, 545 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,920 with the formal coldness of a new, 546 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,000 scarily empty, art. 547 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,200 A gallery full of their work 548 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,240 is like a supermarket where the products can't actually be consumed, 549 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,320 only contemplated 550 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,840 in all their blankness. 551 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,000 Minimalism is a good name 552 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,040 for their vision of what American life had become, 553 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,080 a life dominated by objects without meaning, 554 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,120 without hope of transcendence. 555 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,160 And yet, even in minimalism's rather bleak universe, 556 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,960 there was room, perhaps, for hope, 557 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,960 for dreaming, 558 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,360 for light. 559 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,200 In 1963, artist Dan Flavin began creating sculptures 560 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,360 using nothing but that ubiquitous modern lighting unit, 561 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,800 the fluorescent tube. 562 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,600 As a gallery for his work, Flavin bought this former Baptist Church 563 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,400 in the town of Bridgehampton, Long Island. 564 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080 Flavin's astonishing luminous art 565 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800 is perfectly minimal, in one sense. 566 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,520 He's taken an element of modern life, 567 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,360 common to supermarkets, offices, even seedy motels, 568 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680 and emptied it of meaning, 569 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,720 used it to create a series of implacable geometric forms. 570 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,920 But why put all this in a deconsecrated church, 571 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,240 and arrange it like a series of chapels? 572 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,200 Though Flavin denied any spiritual aspect to his work, 573 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,520 it's surely significant that he'd studied for the priesthood 574 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,760 before becoming an artist. 575 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,760 Is there a nostalgia here, 576 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,840 a yearning for divine light 577 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,040 to pierce the godless soul of modern life? 578 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,800 Or is he saying that the very idea of religious transcendence, 579 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,800 is nothing more than an illusion, 580 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,480 like a neon sign to be switched on or off? 581 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,920 You can read it either way. 582 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,960 By the late 60's, a succession of shocking clashes with authority 583 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,440 was beginning to unravel the fabric of American society. 584 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,640 Civil rights marchers were beaten by police, 585 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,280 students protesting against the Vietnam War 586 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200 were gunned down by the National Guard. 587 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,720 Faith in the established order 588 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:32,400 was crumbling. 589 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,120 Until now artists in post war America 590 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,280 had expressed their unease with society 591 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,400 in cool, ironic terms - 592 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:40,800 pop's hard realism, 593 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,040 or the chilly objectivity of the minimalists. 594 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,440 But now the sheer atrocity of the times 595 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,640 demanded a radical new response. 596 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,840 For years, Philip Guston had painted subtle, tasteful compositions, 597 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,920 like this of 1953. 598 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,120 He was of the old pre-pop, pre-minimalist school, 599 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,760 the abstract expressionists, 600 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,400 rising above the mundanities of modern America 601 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,760 to search for higher truths. 602 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:15,920 But by the end of the '60s 603 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,680 Guston felt he could no longer keep the world out of his art. 604 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,640 "What kind of man am I", he said, 605 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,720 "reading magazines, going into a frustrated fury about everything, 606 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:30,120 "and then going into my studio to adjust a red to a blue?" 607 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,200 So he began producing angry, comic-book satires, 608 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,680 a shocking seismic shift 609 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,320 that would change the course of American art itself. 610 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,800 Guston's daughter, Musa Mayer, 611 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,280 has preserved his studio pretty much as it was. 612 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,080 So this is the studio. 613 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,600 It feels to me almost as if he just left here! 614 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,400 The painter's table, still spattered with paint. 615 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,360 I love it when there's paint on the floor. Yes... 616 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,480 I always think of... ..we left it. 617 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,560 ..it somehow as painter's blood. 618 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,200 There it is, all the effort. 619 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,840 You've left the paints and the brushes neatly arranged... 620 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,960 Yes, and that cabinet is full of old paint. 621 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,720 Still? Still full of old paint, yes. 622 00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:22,240 But tell me, because what I'm curious to know is, 623 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,200 when he made this great shift, this great change, 624 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,440 this new start, had the first exhibition... 625 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,960 ..what was the response, what did everybody in New York think, 626 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,640 you know, when they turned up, 627 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,560 and there it is, the new work? 628 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,920 Well, very negatively, actually. 629 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,760 Almost universally, 630 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,040 the critics panned the new work, 631 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,560 they were really shocked. 632 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000 But when you look at, say, a picture like this, 633 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,160 the Ku Klux Klan, 634 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,600 what's it called this one? 635 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,440 This is called Riding Around. 636 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,800 Riding Around. I mean, 637 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,120 what do you think he was driving at by painting pictures like this? 638 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,000 He had a whole cast of characters, he called them characters. 639 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,600 And they were hooded figures, 640 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,080 and yes, they resembled Klansmen, 641 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,880 but they have a broader meaning, I think, that has to do 642 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,760 with concealment and... 643 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,040 what we reveal, and don't reveal, about ourselves. 644 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,520 Do you think having these hooded figures, 645 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,160 smoking their cigars, 646 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,720 is his way of saying, 647 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,560 "America is a place where people are concealing things, 648 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,680 "concealing the truth from you. It's a place full of bigotry, 649 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,080 "full of racism, it's a place..." It could be. 650 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,040 I mean look at the blood on the hoods there. Oh, yeah, right. 651 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,520 So they're definitely up to no good. 652 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,000 I get the feeling that in a sense, with this late work 653 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,840 it's as if he's almost 654 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,080 popping the boil of his own frustration that's been building up, 655 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,200 it's like he's lancing it, and all this pus is coming out, 656 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,160 which is sort of... Good metaphor! 657 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,600 You brought out this picture. 658 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,320 So this is Nixon, with phlebitis, which he was plagued with, 659 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,920 at San Clemente, which was his retreat on the beach in California. 660 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,840 What do you think it symbolised for your dad, I mean this pussy leg? 661 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,600 Is it the corrupt administration? To me it looks like a map. 662 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,520 Doesn't it look like a map to you? In a way. 663 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,600 I've always thought that this is like the body politic. 664 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,240 Oh, that's a brilliant idea, 665 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:29,080 so this is America, seeping pus... 666 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,080 Seeping pus and blood, 667 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,160 with the state lines drawn in blood and pus. 668 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,640 That's a brilliant idea, hadn't occurred to me. 669 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,440 So it really is a portrait of America, 670 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,760 and he's got the American flag. 671 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,560 I like to think this is almost a little embedded reference 672 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,600 to Jasper Johns' flag paintings, the flag, but it's the flag melted, 673 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,720 it's somehow gone rotten and there's Nixon, literally, 674 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,880 presented as a dickhead, 675 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,280 with a cock for a nose and two testicles for cheeks. 676 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,800 I mean it's such a sort of vicious, satirical, 677 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,680 angry picture isn't it? Yes, it is. 678 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,920 And I notice that you've placed this wonderful picture... 679 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,520 pride of place, centre stage. Yes. 680 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,640 I'm guessing that it has a special place in your heart? It does, it does. 681 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,840 In a sense it's a self-portrait. 682 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,960 Um...it's a self-portrait of a self-portrait. 683 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,320 The artist, the hooded figure. 684 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,480 Because he acknowledged the... dark side of himself. 685 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,720 He painted the dark side of himself, he had the courage to do that, 686 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,840 which is something not many artists at that time were able to do. 687 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,320 'Guston's disconcerting paintings 688 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,760 'tore up the rule book of American art. 689 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,840 'Until now, movement had followed movement 690 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,960 'in a seemingly inevitable way - 691 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,200 'abstract expressionism, pop, minimalism. 692 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,640 'But after Guston anything was possible.' 693 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,720 Postmodernism was the label critics tried to stick on this new uncertainty, 694 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:13,080 but all that meant was that, from now on, art can be about anything you want. 695 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,960 It was a reflection of what was happening in American society in the '70s - 696 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,920 the rise of the individual. 697 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,840 Black power, gay rights, women's lib. 698 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,320 The emergence of marginalised, hidden voices. 699 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,920 And art became a means of exploring those newly formed identities, 700 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,360 whether through the street language of graffiti 701 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,720 or the unflinching eye of the camera. 702 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,960 In 1978, a 25-year-old photographer called Nan Goldin 703 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,120 moved from Boston to Manhattan, New York. 704 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,560 She came to the Lower East Side, then an extremely shabby district, 705 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,160 because she was fascinated by its subculture, 706 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:07,000 a mix of drag queens, heroin addicts and all other kinds of social outsiders. 707 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,120 Nan Goldin photographed herself and the people she knew, 708 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,720 in tenement buildings just like this one. 709 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:26,000 Her pictures documented intimate moments, 710 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,280 intentionally raw, unaltered, unstaged. 711 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,320 She set out to capture her friends' lives, 712 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,360 often lived in secret, behind closed doors. 713 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,000 And when some of her friends began to die of AIDS 714 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160 she documented that too. 715 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,360 But these pictures weren't voyeurism - 716 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,280 they were Goldin's chronicle of her own life. 717 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,440 She said, "My camera has saved my life. 718 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,240 "It's made bearable things that feel unbearable." 719 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,840 When I think of Nan Goldin's work, 720 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,280 I can't help thinking back to Jasper Johns' White Flag, 721 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:16,680 that image of the American flag, almost as a...as a quilt laid down, 722 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,080 smothering the teeming multiplicity of America's many voices and many cultures 723 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,960 and I think her achievement was to... 724 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:31,640 was almost if you like to... lift a corner of that sheet 725 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,560 and reveal this hidden, secret, quite dark world, 726 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,120 but to do so in a beautifully affectionate and vibrant way. 727 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:52,920 When Ronald Reagan was elected president in 1981, 728 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,360 he repackaged the American Dream. 729 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,120 In an echo of 1950s Levittown, 730 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:06,320 he believed the US could be made great again through home ownership. 731 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:11,360 Now not only the marginalised voices would be heard, but the voice too of the little man - 732 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,480 aspirational middle America. 733 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,440 After all, if a B-list Hollywood actor could make it as President, 734 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,800 then anyone could make it, regardless of class, background or taste. 735 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,400 The artist who most perfectly captured that idea was Jeff Koons. 736 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,440 His work transfigured the seemingly vulgar, 737 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,440 the telltale lapse of taste of the nouveau riche. 738 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,680 Most critics were horrified. 739 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,160 Others saw a witty take on eclectic materialism. 740 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,480 I think of Koons as Andy Warhol take two, 741 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,520 but a Warhol who wants to liberate Americans to wallow in their taste, 742 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,480 no matter how kitsch or obscene. 743 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,760 But it's hard to know whether I'm right, 744 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,040 or whether Koons has his tongue firmly in his cheek. 745 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,600 Because if ever an artist was deadpan, 746 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,760 more so even than Warhol, it's Jeff Koons. 747 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,920 Andrew, how are you? I'm very well, it's so nice to see you. 748 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,240 So what are you working on at the moment, paintings or sculptures? 749 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:24,560 Well, you know, I'm always working on sculptures and paintings together 750 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,880 and I'm working on a series called Antiquity right now, 751 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,720 so I'm just in the process of finishing off some of the first ones. 752 00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:35,960 I know this is a work in progress 753 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,640 but we've got a lot of, as it were, your motifs here, 754 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,240 in the sense of the shiny inflatable, the sexy girl, 755 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:47,040 this wonderful dolphin, and these again all seem to me 756 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,240 to be playing into...imagery that everybody likes. 757 00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:56,480 So I think you've said to me in the past that you want everyone to feel they can participate in your work, 758 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,960 you don't want to exclude anybody from it. 759 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,160 Well, a piece like this I think an average viewer could look at... 760 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,440 My daughter Scarlet, who's only one year old, was here at the studio three days ago, 761 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,480 and I brought here in here and she's just pointing, "Ah, ah...", you know, and she loved the painting 762 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,440 and she was relating to maybe the childlike quality of the monkey 763 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,120 or just the feminine quality of the painting or the dolphin. 764 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,520 When you're that age, you're open. 765 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,960 I mean, it's just like... 766 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,640 I mean, there's nothing that you're not open to, 767 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,960 I mean, you're open to everything. 768 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,720 And it's the opposite of being closed down, that... "Oh, that's kitsch." 769 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,200 I don't believe in kitsch. 770 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,040 I believe in things that they are as they are 771 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,560 and they're perfect as what they are. 772 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,720 And if lots of people like it, what's wrong with it? 773 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,480 Yes. I see that as... as being generous, 774 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,040 because what you want to do in life is remove anxiety. 775 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,880 And the way you remove anxiety is through acceptance. 776 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,760 My work always has been trying to communicate to people that 777 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,880 it's all right to accept your own history, your cultural history, 778 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:19,320 the things that you grew up with. I grew up with little knick-knack kind of little ceramic pieces. 779 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,840 My grandparents had it, my parents would have had ceramic lights. That's OK. 780 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,880 The painting that we had above our fireplace, 781 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,640 which was just some commercial painting of some little hut out in a forest, 782 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,080 that's what I looked at every evening. That's OK. 783 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:42,320 My father and mother made us feel very much as though we were participating in the American Dream, 784 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,800 that we were the middle class, but there was always a sense that we were moving up. 785 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,400 And I was always brought up to be very self-reliant, self-sufficient, 786 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,080 and a lot of it's about this sense of mobility. 787 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,760 Can I ask you about these huge, almost billboard-sized photographs 788 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,160 of you making love to your then wife La Cicciolina? 789 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,960 There was something weirdly pure and innocent about it, 790 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,880 as if you'd taken pornographic imagery and somehow made it sort of innocent. 791 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,600 Were you trying to take that form 792 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,600 and say, well, you needn't be degraded by it, or... 793 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,000 You know, I still find myself puzzling over those pieces. 794 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,480 Yep. What I wanted to do was to make a body of work 795 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,200 that communicated the removal of guilt and shame, 796 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,720 because I'm dealing with cultural guilt and shame. 797 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,280 So I tried to use the body, and the insecurity that people have, 798 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,360 the guilt and shame that they have with their own body, 799 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,800 to again communicate this state of not having guilt and shame. 800 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,080 And that's the highest state that art can take you. 801 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,400 And there's no judgment, there's complete acceptance. 802 00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:00,920 However harshly most of the art establishment judged Koons' work, 803 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,520 it scored a bull's-eye with wealthy bankers and social climbers. 804 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,400 In fact, his work has since commanded 805 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,480 some of the highest prices of any living artist. 806 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,960 Economically, the '90s were a bit of a rollercoaster. 807 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,320 But US confidence was at an all-time high. 808 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,600 The old Soviet enemy had collapsed. 809 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,680 It seemed like the good guys had won - game over. 810 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:31,040 America sank back into a deep armchair of complacency. 811 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,520 And the quintessential artistic expression of that 812 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,120 appeared, aptly enough, not on a canvas, 813 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,120 but on millions of television screens. 814 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,120 The Simpsons are hardly a model family, 815 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:52,480 and the programmes exude a corrosive cynicism about the ideals behind the old American Dream. 816 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,760 Take Homer's advice to his children - 817 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,840 "Well, kids, you tried and you failed, the lesson is - never try." 818 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:05,040 And yet somehow the adventures of this curiously yellow family seem to me to announce a seismic shift 819 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,520 in the story of American art. 820 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,000 The whole show is saturated with cultural references of the broadest possible kind, 821 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,960 guest appearances are made by characters as various as the pop musician Jon Bon Jovi 822 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,400 and the reclusive artist Jasper Johns. 823 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,040 But what the Simpsons says first and foremost is that anything and everything, 824 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,640 from Dunkin' Donuts to the New York Philharmonic 825 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,360 can be considered legitimately part of American culture. 826 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:41,880 The Simpsons reflected the cultural overload of images streaming through the media and the internet. 827 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:47,320 It became harder to tell, through this information blizzard, which way America was headed. 828 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,680 And then, on September 11th 2001, the world changed. 829 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:16,400 The terrorist acts of 9/11 were a murderous outrage, 830 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,640 the public massacre of thousands of innocent people. 831 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,160 And they were also planned 832 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:29,240 with a hatefully potent sense of visual symbolism, 833 00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:34,680 flying American planes into American skyscrapers, 834 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:40,960 those towering symbols of ascendancy, optimism, 835 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:46,840 the free market economy, everything really that America stood for in the 20th century. 836 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,520 And I think it had a shattering effect 837 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,680 on this nation's sense of its place in the world, 838 00:50:54,680 --> 00:51:00,080 I don't think it's any exaggeration to say there was America before 9/11 839 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,080 and there's America after 9/11, and they aren't the same place. 840 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,920 Architect Michael Arad's 9/11 Memorial, 841 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,040 built on the site of the World Trade Center, 842 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:23,400 is a solemn, heartfelt monument to a great tragedy, 843 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,080 but also an unintentionally startling sign of America's lost confidence. 844 00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:36,000 Two vast pits mark the exact footprints of the Twin Towers, 845 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,640 powerful reminders of the horrifying destruction that was wrought here. 846 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,160 But there's no sense of hope - 847 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,560 none of the old American spirit, determined to survive and overcome any challenge. 848 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,640 Instead, a great wall of tears flows endlessly down, into the deepest pit of oblivion. 849 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,120 And when the light catches these flecks of falling water, 850 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,320 it evokes the most awful 9/11 memory of all - 851 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,840 the image of those who chose to jump to their deaths 852 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,800 before the towers collapsed. 853 00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:26,160 The "War on Terror" and the economic meltdown have created in America, if not a sense of impending doom, 854 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,040 then certainly a national anxiety that surfaces in art. 855 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,120 And if you want to take the temperature of American art today, 856 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:41,240 there's no better place to come than Brooklyn, home to a hive of younger artists' studios. 857 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:47,520 In this warehouse, a team of assistants help sculptor Matthew Day Jackson 858 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,360 to produce work that tries to get under the skin of modern America's predicament. 859 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,880 These look like sort of aerial views of cities. 860 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,920 Yeah, they're from a series called August 6th 1945. 861 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,720 Is that the date of Hiroshima? Yeah. 862 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:07,200 They're pretty amazing looking. 863 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,440 Yeah, these are all in a stage before... 864 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,920 before they get, uh, burnt. 865 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,720 Burnt? Yeah, they get burnt. I want them to be burnt uniformly, 866 00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:20,200 as if to suggest that there wasn't a detonation, 867 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,240 but just a sort of continuation or an atmosphere of fire. 868 00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:26,080 Are you going to film? Actually, I have, 869 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,760 not to record the act but to create an illusion. 870 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:35,080 So I'm not interested in the act, but when you look down the side of the painting, 871 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:40,120 tilt your head to the side, that you can begin to see streets and buildings. 872 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:46,400 And to see a rush of fire move through the alleyways and streets. 873 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,520 So in a sense it's this idea 874 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:56,280 that when we invent nuclear energy and when we invent the atom bomb, 875 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,160 we also invent this ability to... 876 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,760 Eradicate all life on planet Earth? 877 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,080 HE CHUCKLES 878 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,120 Yeah, but it's also in terms of the sort of mythology of the Cold War, 879 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,440 we believe that it's over, it definitely is a much more comfortable thought 880 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,200 than to think that it's just continued and moved to different places, and... 881 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,120 So you're sort of saying to us, "Hey, did you forget that?" 882 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,080 Oh yeah, totally, I think that we have forgotten. 883 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:31,120 I'm intrigued by this, I was just thinking that if somebody didn't know your work, 884 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:36,120 it'd be pretty hard to guess that the man who created these pieces also created these. 885 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:37,920 Tell me what the skeletons are, 886 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,280 are they based on the oldest ever found human skeleton? 887 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:46,520 No, there's a range of current to three million years old. 888 00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,440 And then from three million years old back to current again, 889 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,840 but in one continuous spectrum, in a rainbow. 890 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,160 So it's a kind of spectrum evolutionary skeleton. 891 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,480 Yeah, if you were to take the toes and tip them right next to each other, 892 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,640 the colour of the toes are one step away from the colour of those toes, 893 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,520 so that essentially it'd create a sort of Mobius loop. 894 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,880 So I could almost imagine them looping round and round. Yep, for ever and ever and ever. 895 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,000 But if I walk it, I'm starting with me, and I move through time... 896 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,880 1.5 million years to... 897 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,360 and then now you're probably like three... Million years ago. 898 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,320 Yeah, and so in terms of thinking about progress. 899 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,120 To move to a point in technology 900 00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:36,920 where we've found this ability to return ourselves to a pre-technological past. 901 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:42,600 How do you mean? Because we can blow the world up? 902 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:47,840 Yeah, but it's also in terms of if that technology was ever used in wide scale, 903 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,920 it wouldn't just destroy life, 904 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,920 but also all the tools that we've used in terms of our evolution. 905 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,400 I see, so if I get it right, if I follow the piece, if I follow the spectrum, 906 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,520 if I follow the idea... this small brain, Homo sapiens, 907 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,800 evolved to have such a large brain that he was able to create the possibility 908 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,200 of destruction on such a vast scale that he would return himself back 909 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,520 to a state of primitive man. 910 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:20,040 I see quite a lot of apocalypse in your imagination, but I do also see it as exultation, 911 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,960 almost kind of maybe a certain kind of laughter in the dark? 912 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,960 If that's the right phrase? Yeah, yeah. 913 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,480 Or as Ronnie James Dio might say, a rainbow in the dark. 914 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:31,720 THEY CHUCKLE 915 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:42,960 Jackson is one of several artists in America today who seem to exude anxiety through their work, 916 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,600 as they challenge their country's old assumptions about the inevitability of progress, 917 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:53,240 the idea that all frontiers must lead to a promised land. 918 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,600 In one sense, they're part of a tradition. 919 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:04,000 For centuries, American artists have played a vital part in shaping the American sense of nationhood. 920 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,000 They've given visual form to America's dreams and ideals, 921 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,880 they've questioned its ideologies, 922 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:18,240 and above all, they've tried to define just what it is that makes this civilisation unique, 923 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,680 unlike any to have preceded it. 924 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:28,000 Through it all, there's been this sense that because America was a nation unburdened by history, 925 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,480 it was the home of the new, this was where the future was made. 926 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,960 But I think that's all changed. 927 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:39,080 I think many Americans fear that they're no longer in charge of their destiny, 928 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,880 that their destiny's being shaped elsewhere. 929 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:47,520 And that's why so much recent American art seems so hesitant, so uncertain. 930 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:49,760 It's an art of questions, not of answers. 931 00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,560 And at the centre of it lies one particular question - 932 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,720 what does the future hold? 933 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,000 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 934 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,640 E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk 77894

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