All language subtitles for The.Co-Ed.Killer.Mind.Of.A.Monster.S01E03.Part3.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DD2.0.H.264-Cinefeel[eztv.re]

[suspenseful music playing]

[Edmund Emil Kemper III
exhales]

[Kemper speaking]

[Monty Lunde]
Kemper talked to my dad

about the various
co-ed murders.

He was not the typical
paranoid schizophrenic,

uh, mass murderer.

He was a different,
different type of human being.

[Kemper speaking]

[Monty] My dad administers
Sodium Amytal,

which is like a truth serum.

He wanted to see

if there were any
repressed memories

buried in his subconscious.

[Kemper speaking]

[ominous music playing]

[Don Smarto]
My name is Don Smarto.

And I'm a pastor in Dallas.

I've been going into prisons
for about 40 years.

And I fundamentally believe
that people can change.

[indistinct chatter]

[Smarto] Part of what I would
do is go into prisons.

I would preach,
I would share with inmates.

And we would also film
their testimonies

of having found faith
in God as Christians.

February 10th, 1993 is a date

that I will probably
never forget.

[indistinct chatter]

[Smarto] We were shooting
in prisons in California,

and the last prison
was Vacaville.

I had already shot
two inmates

and the third inmate
walked into the room,

he's seven-feet,
three hundred fifty pounds.

So I was obviously startled
by his size.

But I have no idea who he is
or what he's done.

Thank you for talking
with us today.

How long have you been
in prison?

[Kemper] Seventeen years.

[Smarto] You came to Christ
in an unlikely place.

Where was that?

In the hole,
during time in the lockup.

Um...

I could just
squander my life away,

waste it away to nothing,

quietly die
in a little corner,

or start living my life.

And it was over
a period of months,

it was very ugly.

It's the worst place
I've ever lived in my life.

And it's the best place
I've ever lived

because during
that three years there,

I came to grips with myself,

with my feelings
with who I was.

I became a human being
for the first time in my life,

instead of a caricature.

[Smarto] During the break,
a guard comes over

and whispers in my ear,

"You know who you're
talking to, don't you?"

Which I said no,
I have no idea.

He said, "That's Ed Kemper.

He's the Co-Ed Killer."

[suspenseful music playing]

[dramatic music playing]

[Smarto] I gained his respect

and we ended up
writing to each other

for four years.

I kept them to myself
for 27 years

and showed them to no one.

The first letter,
he was formal,

called me Mr. Smarto,

after that
quickly became Don.

So I could tell that
with each subsequent letter,

we were developing
a relationship.

When I was corresponding
with Ed,

I never hesitated
to ask any questions.

I wanted to know

if his spiritual conversion
was real,

and that there really
was a human inside

what the world would say
was a monster.

Of course, the question
that I really wanted to ask

was about his mother.

And so he says in this letter,
"Dear Don,

'Did you love your mother?',
you ask me.

[ominous music playing]

[Smarto] That's a hard one.

Instinctively
the answer should be yes.

Yet I never felt that love.

Do I remember
that fateful night

some 20 years ago?

Of course.

They never leave me.

Memories etched in steel
within my brain."

[ominous music playing]

[Dr. Donald Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Monty] My dad interviewed
Ed Kemper

about a half a dozen times.

And eventually,
Kemper opened up

about the specifics
of his murdering his mother.

It is, you know,
an unspeakable crime

and what he did to his mother
in terms of killing her

was particularly unspeakable.

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Smarto] Ed told me
he goes back to his room.

The one side of him is
fighting with the other side.

Whatever goodness
is still there,

or whatever darkness and evil
is still there

are debating for hours.

Should I go in and kill her?

Should I not kill her?

Should I kill her?
Should I not kill her?

And finally,
the dark side wins.

[Kemper speaking]

[Smarto] He goes in
with a claw hammer,

and beats her to death
in her sleep.

And then as if
that wasn't enough,

then he decapitates her.

[Kemper speaking]

Then he cuts out her tongue,

which of course
is an instrument we use

to speak with,

then he removes
her vocal cords

and tries to put it...

Puts them down
the garbage disposal.

[Kemper speaking]

And then he tells me
that he inserts his penis

in her mouth,

and literally...

has sex
with his mother's head.

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

Kemper murdering
his mother is...

one of the most
horrific things

a human being can do
to another,

I mean murdering
your own mother.

It certainly speaks volumes
about their relationship.

You know,
I think my dad's conclusion

was that was the source

of all of Kemper's real issues

was his relationship
with his mother.

In one of the letters
he writes to me,

"I screamed
at her lifeless head

until my voice
was painfully hoarse,

sore, and exhausted
but satisfied.

Yes, satisfied."

He used the word
he was exhausted,

that it was over.

His ultimate goal
was to rid himself

of the one person

who had thrown him
over the edge.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[suspenseful music playing]

[Terry Medina]
So it was Easter of 1973,

it's a time for reflection
and family

and having some downtime,
some relaxing time.

And then the bubble breaks.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Kemper speaking]

[dramatic music playing]

[car horn blaring]

[Jim Connor] I was working
at the police department

from midnight
to 8:00 in the morning,

what we call
the graveyard shift.

Drinking coffee, it's dead.

Nothing happening.

[suspenseful music playing]

[phone ringing]

[Connor]
Suddenly the phone rings,

and, Andy, the officer
working the radio,

is talking to whoever
is on the phone.

He said, uh, something like
"I'm not gonna wake him up.

You call back in the morning,"

click, hung up.

[Kemper speaking]

[phone ringing]

[Connor] Phone rings again.

Andy says something
to the effect,

"Ed, I have told you

I'm not waking up
the lieutenant."

And I said
"Who are you talking to?"

He said,
"I'm talking to Ed Kemper."

I took the phone, and I said

"Hey, Ed, this is Connor,
how you doing?"

He said, "I know you guys,

you guys know
that I'm the one

and you're all gonna kill me,
I know that."

I said, "Ed...

I have not a clue
what you're talking about."

He said,
"Well, I killed my mom

and I just wanna
give myself up."

I said, "Where are you?"

He said,
"I'm in Pueblo, Colorado."

So now, I cover the receiver,

I told the other office
to call Pueblo PD,

and have them go out
and hook this guy.

I get a hold of Mickey Aluffi

and I get him out of bed.

[Mickey Aluffi]
I answer the phone

and it was Jim Connor.

And he said, "Hey, do you know
a guy named Ed Kemper?"

And I said, "Yeah, I just
took a gun away from him

about a week or so ago."

And he said, "Well, he is now
in Pueblo, Colorado,

he wants to turn himself in
for a couple of murders,

and he said
to get a hold of you

because you know exactly
where he lives."

So, at 5:00 in the morning

I'm standing there
in my underwear

on the telephone,
and I can just feel

the blood running
all the way down.

I have... It was...
I was just cold all over.

I wanna get over
to his house.

[ominous music playing]

Okay.
The morning of the incident,

this is exactly
where I parked.

As I sit here now
and look at this house,

I mean, it's just like
I was here last week,

not almost 50 years ago.

[ominous music playing]

[Aluffi] The duty
sergeant at the time

and myself did a canvass
of the neighborhood

to see if anybody had seen
or heard anything suspicious.

The people who lived upstairs

said that they thought
that there was kinda like

strange odor lately,
last day or two.

Take a walk over this way.

We went around the back
of this complex,

and broke a window
to gain access.

Yeah, that's the, uh,
the fence back there

where the gate and the window
are just inside of it.

[ominous music playing]

[Aluffi] When I walked in,

you're hit with the smell.

If you've ever smelled,
like, a dead body,

you'll never forget it.

And that's what this was,

and so we gave a...
Gave a cursory search

of the inside
of this apartment.

[ominous music playing]

[Aluffi] When we got
to the mother's bedroom,

we went to the closet
and opened the door

and there was a sheet,
I'll never forget this.

There was a sheet there
and we pull it back

a little bit,
and you could see flesh,

hair, and blood.

So with that, we confirmed

what the worst
that could possibly happen.

I waited until the crime
scene people got there,

and other deputies
and sergeants.

[ominous music playing]

[Medina]
Then we get to the bedroom,

pull the bed from the wall,

and from where the pillows are

to the floor is solid blood.

[ominous music playing]

There's actually...

In the middle of the blood
on the floor,

there's a piece of paper

that's kind of
a half sheet like this.

[laughing]

Oh, I remember that.

We found this confession,

"Not sloppy
and incompetent gents,

just a lack of time.

Got things to do.

Approximately
5:15 A.M., Saturday.

No need for her
to suffer anymore."

Yup, that was his...
That was his, um...

note to us.

Further we went,
we were pulling shoe boxes

out of the end of the closet

and we are finding
body parts...

arms, hands,

feet, legs.

I went in there
and I lift this towel up

and here's this face
staring me right in the face.

And, uh, it's his mother's
severed head.

It was just...

Let's put it this way,
startling.

There are lot of things that I
wish I had never seen before

and hope I never see again.

So, that's when we backed off,
we went outside.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Medina] What we didn't know
at the time,

there was one more body
in that house

that we didn't find
right away.

It was her best friend...

who was, uh, found dead

in the front closet
by the front door.

And she looked beat to death.

[dramatic music playing]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[dramatic music playing]

[Paul Dougherty]
In these pictures are

it looks like
the bloody bra we found,

also we found the ID's

and things of that nature
of other victims.

And it began to dawn on us
that when we found

stuff like that,
he was the Co-Ed Killer.

Um, yeah.

[suspenseful music playing]

[Connor] Mickey Aluffi
and one of his co-workers

had gone to Ed's house.

So, finally
now we have a handle

on maybe clearing some
of these homicides, right?

So, I'm waiting
for the Pueblo PD to show up.

I said, "You got...
You gotta give me

a couple of minutes, Ed."

We're talking
and he's telling me

a little bit about
how he killed his mom.

Pretty soon he said
"Oh, [bleep]."

I said, "What?"
He said, "The cops are here."

So, he dropped the receiver
because I hear yelling

in the background, you know,

it was, like,
get on your hands and knees,

or something like that.

[Aluffi] I was back
at the sheriff's office.

And I was on the telephone
with the authorities

in Pueblo, Colorado
when Peter Chang walked in.

And that's when he asked me,

he says,
"Do you know this guy?

Do you have a good rapport
with him?

"I think so."
So, he said, "Okay.

Let's pack a bag
and go to Colorado."

[airplane engine whirring]

[ominous music playing]

[Aluffi] When we get
to Pueblo, Colorado,

we check in
at the police department

and then they brought
Kemper in.

And he looks at me
and he says,

"Hi, Mickey, how you doing?"

So, that tells me right away
that we do have that rapport,

at least he recognized me

and he's willing
to talk to me.

From there, the information
just started flowing.

And we talked to him for...

[breathes deeply]
four, five, six hours.

[dramatic music playing]

[Aluffi] And he told us
all about his victims.

Locations of where he
had disposed of the bodies.

And stuff that we never
even dreamed of.

[reporter] Aptos, just a few
miles south of Santa Cruz,

where this morning about 5:30

county sheriff investigators

found the bodies
of two women,

one of them decapitated

and her right hand cut off.

[reporter] District Attorney
Peter Chang was back

in Santa Cruz today
after talking

to a six-foot-nine giant
Edmund Kemper

in a Pueblo, Colorado jail.

But Chang was giving out
very little information
about Kemper.

Well, depending on, uh,

whether and what routes
they may take,

he'll be back anytime
between, uh,

Friday and, uh, Monday.

And we intend Monday
to, uh, take him to court

and arraign him, uh,
for murdering his mother

and, uh, the second count,

uh, for the murder
of her friend.

[Aluffi] After we interviewed
him that night,

we decided that we needed
to get him back to California

as soon as we can.

I remember when we stopped
at a gas station,

and he had to use
the facilities.

And because of the notoriety
of the case,

by the time we came out
of the restroom,

there was a crowd there

and he would strut
back and forth

so these people
could see him.

He really enjoyed that.

[reporter]
There is a strong possibility

Kemper will be brought up
to this general area

of the Santa Cruz mountains
sometime this weekend.

[Aluffi] Back in Santa Cruz,
we asked him

if he would be willing
to show us

where the bodies were.

Because a description
of the area

is not sufficient,

you need somebody to say,
"It's right there."

And he agreed to do that
because, obviously,

families need to have
some closure as well.

[dramatic music playing]

[Medina] You know, I was able
to go out and find...

an arm that he had severed
from Aikoo Koo.

And that was really
the first time

that we knew
what had happened to her.

[dramatic music playing]

[Hazel Bright] The way
I found out about Aiko

was through
a newspaper article

on this Edmund Kemper.

And that he was responsible

for taking Aiko's life. And...

when I read that article,

I just broke down

and I just cried, and I cried,
and I cried.

I just couldn't believe it.

And I had a very hard time

trying to understand
what happened to my friend.

[dramatic music playing]

There is...
There is a part of reliving

the pain of her loss.

But I have to say
there is also

the joy in recalling

such a wonderful friendship.

And, um,

such a wonderful experience

that I had with Aiko
for those years.

[dramatic music playing]

[Aluffi] For the most part,
it was amazing

that he would do
something like this

this close to his own home.

One of his victims,

he had buried her skull

in his mother's backyard.

[dramatic music playing]

[Aluffi] And he told me
that he had actually

taken the face off
of the skull,

buried the skull
and put the face on top.

And I asked him
why he did that,

and he said that because
he wanted to know

that she is always
looking up at him.

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[dramatic music playing]

[Medina] I remember, uh, just
looking down into that hole

and knowing
that, uh, the, uh...

You know, there was
a beautiful young lady once

that I saw pictures of and...

and she met this, uh...

horrific death.

It was a... It was a...

That was a difficult day.

[dramatic music playing]

[Medina] I thought about
all these people

that he had killed
and I thought, you know,

if a judge ordered me
to take him out to the river

in the back of the courthouse
and shoot him,

I thought I could do it.

Um, I was that affected.

[dramatic music playing]

[intense music playing]

[man] This is a day
of waiting in Santa Cruz.

Residents
are watching carefully

as sheriff's investigators,

and District Attorney
Peter Chang

begin to build a case
against Edward Kemper III.

I was in the trial.

People were shouting things
like, "Kill the bastard"

and all that sort of thing.

Ed Kemper admitted to doing
all of these things.

His guilt was not a question.

His sanity was the question.

His defense team
were indicating

that he was insane

and he did not know
what he was doing.

They were trying to prove
that he had mental issues.

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Monty] My dad interviewed
Kemper many times.

The defense attorneys
asked him to go see him

and determine his level
of sanity or insanity

at the time of the crimes.

And doing
the Kemper interviews

and studying his family
and his history

I think really
was a step forward for him

in terms of understanding

especially the type of killer
that Kemper was

which was very unusual.

[ominous music playing]

[Monty]
But there was one thing

that he really didn't get
to the bottom

of whether he was being
truthful with my dad

and expressing
what he was really thinking.

So he wanted to see

if there were any
repressed memories

buried in his subconscious.

So one of the things he did
was administer sodium amytal

which is like a truth serum

just so he could try
to get more

into Kemper's subconscious

to see if there was, you know,
any more of there

that wasn't coming out
in the normal interviews.

[ominous music playing]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[laughs]

[Kemper yawns]

[Dr. Lunde] Yeah.

[Kemper speaking]

[Katherine Ramsland]
In order to administer

the sodium amytal,

Lunde had to make
some arrangements

with the local hospital.

It was one
of several different types

of barbiturate type
of substances

that the military
had tested out

to see if it bypasses
the cognitive guards

and relaxes a person,

so that they will say more.

[Kemper yawns]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

There's some guilt there
mixed in

with this bizarre need
to kill somebody,

kill a woman.

There is a level
where he seems to understand

what he's doing
is a horrible thing,

but it's coming across
as though
he can't help himself.

He has to.

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

-[Dr. Lunde speaking]
-[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Ramsland] Hearing him
admitting to cannibalism,

part of his need to possess.

He's going
to not just kill her

and cut her in to pieces,

he's going to take part of her

as if it brings her into him

so that he can relive
the experience

of having had
this power over her

and that she now belongs
to him.

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[Dr. Lunde speaking]

[Kemper speaking]

[eerie music playing]

[Monty]
After interviewing Kemper,

my dad was asked
to give a report

to the defense

as to whether he felt

Kemper was sane or insane.

And the quandary my dad had
was that by legal standards,

Kemper was doing things
that a rational

human being would do.

He was hiding his crimes,

he was watching out
for the police,

he was thoughtful about
how he committed his crimes.

Because he understood
what he was doing,

it would be difficult
from a legal perspective

to say that he was insane,

but from a psychological
perspective,

my dad felt
that he was insane.

[Aluffi] The California rule

to test for sanity

is what we call
the M'Naghten rule.

All of the psychiatrists
that interviewed him

said that he knew
what he was doing

and when he was doing it,
he knew it was wrong,

so therefore
he was not insane.

[ominous music playing]

[reporter]
In Santa Cruz, California,

Edmund Kemper was convicted
of killing eight people,

his mother,
and seven other women.

[Aluffi]
At the end of the trial,

Kemper was found guilty
of eight homicides

and was sentenced
to seven years to life

running concurrently

which essentially means
that he would be there

in state prison
for the rest of his life.

I think
it's a fair assessment

to say
that Edmund Emil Kemper III

fooled a lot of people.

It could be the psychiatrist
in Atascadero.

It could be law enforcement,
it could be his mother,

it could be his friends.

But unfortunately
it also included his victims

and that's the bad part.

[man] You think
he outsmarted you, Mickey?

I...

That calls for a real
honest answer, doesn't it?

Um...

yeah,

he definitely slipped
through the cracks.

[dramatic music playing]

[reporter] Kemper is serving
a life sentence

in the correctional
medical facility

at Vacaville, California.

He's kept
in a segregated wing

with just a few
other inmates.

[Smarto] All these years,

he's been
in the very same prison.

It's been almost 50 years.

He is 73 now,

has had a severe stroke,
and debilitated.

He has shutdown.
He doesn't talk to anybody.

He doesn't talk to reporters,
to media, to writers.

He's just decided
to be a recluse.

So when I interviewed
Ed Kemper on camera,

I may literally have
the last communication

he's given to any person
or the world.

As you know, much has been
written about you.

When you first came
to prison,

you were described
as a monster, a maniac,

how different is the Ed Kemper
before our camera today?

[Kemper] A very large person,
six foot nine,

and you would think
someone that large

is gonna be prone toward
violence and aggression,

and, uh,
overbearing personality.

And I'm working toward
quite the opposite,

so I would say the difference
between 16, 17 years ago

where I was considered
friendly

and easygoing person,
that was a facade.

Now it's real.

[dramatic music playing]

[Smarto] Ed Kemper
is a very complex person.

He realizes that all his life
he has fought inside himself

with both the good Ed Kemper

and the evil Ed Kemper.

But now he has found peace,
he has found peace with God.

One of the things he told me
was if he ever got paroled,

he'd want to be a missionary.

He would visit inmates
who were dying of AIDS

and minister to them.

And I think in a sense,
in his own way,

he was trying to say
maybe to the world,

"there is some good in me."

[Kemper]
I do like helping others,

visiting sick inmates
gives me comfort.

My hope to bring
a modicum of comfort.

Is this self-redemption?

Am I just a do-gooder?

I need to believe something
in me is salvageable.

[dramatic music playing]

[Smarto] The question I think
people are going to ask me

in the future is,

"Do you believe
you'll see Ed in heaven?"

And my answer is, "Yes."

If... And I can't see
in someone's heart.

I mean, I... Only God knows.

Um, but based upon
what I've seen,

um, I believe I'll see him
in heaven someday.

Let me tell you.
That is going to anger people

to no end.

[Luita Spangler] I don't
believe that redemption

is possible.
I've heard that a lot.

I think that it's a way
that they tell themselves

that they are
different people,

but they're not, you know.

No matter what he does,

he can say
maybe he has found peace.

If he has,

that doesn't make me feel
particularly good.

I don't want him
to find peace.

I haven't found peace.

They never will find peace.

Well, who can redeem Ros?

Who can redeem Alice?

You know, they're dead.

Nothing will bring them back.

[Medina] I think
if any homicide investigator

tells you that it doesn't
affect you,

then I don't think
they're being honest,

because at some level,

um, it's in you,
it's in my mind.

I don't think about
it all the time,

but it does
come to me sometimes.

What these women
had to go through,

I can't get that out
of my head.

There's just things
you just can't get it out

and it just comes back
once in a while,

but you learn to deal with it.

[intense music playing]

[Kemper speaking]

[intense music playing]