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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,019 suppose you're American and you decide 2 00:00:02,158 --> 00:00:06,479 to lose weight and get healthy awesome 3 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:08,820 we Americans are really good at some 4 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,280 things like building telescopes in space 5 00:00:08,820 --> 00:00:13,199 but unfortunately we haven't cracked the 6 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:15,599 code on staying slim keeping health care 7 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:17,640 costs down or living long but we do 8 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:19,920 dominate the market for nutrition and 9 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,719 weight loss books Let's see if our 10 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,699 best-selling authors now provide a clear 11 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:25,679 and consistent message we can all rally 12 00:00:23,699 --> 00:00:27,300 around to solve our problem I have 13 00:00:25,679 --> 00:00:29,278 written about agriculture nutrition 14 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:31,980 cooking and this is everything I know 15 00:00:29,278 --> 00:00:35,280 about food the best wisdom we have can 16 00:00:31,980 --> 00:00:38,219 be reduced to seven words eat food not 17 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,960 too much mostly plants I'm Dr Ken Berry 18 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:43,200 a family physician well I've been 19 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:45,799 virtually plant free in my diet for the 20 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:49,140 last three and a half years emphasizing 21 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:51,179 basically plant Source types of fat 22 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:52,679 essentially if you can pour it it's 23 00:00:51,179 --> 00:00:53,700 going to be a healthy type of fat as 24 00:00:52,679 --> 00:00:56,820 long as we haven't partially 25 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:59,399 hydrogenated it remember oils are rancid 26 00:00:56,820 --> 00:01:01,859 products they oxidized really easily 27 00:00:59,399 --> 00:01:03,660 they go rancid and bad they they do they 28 00:01:01,859 --> 00:01:05,099 don't have no shelf life stability and 29 00:01:03,659 --> 00:01:07,920 then the Cornerstone of all every 30 00:01:05,099 --> 00:01:09,539 longevity diet in the world is beans if 31 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,118 you're eating about a cup of beans a day 32 00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:14,580 it's probably worth about four extra 33 00:01:12,118 --> 00:01:18,239 years of life expectancy so the lectins 34 00:01:14,579 --> 00:01:21,298 particularly in kidney beans are so 35 00:01:18,239 --> 00:01:23,579 mischievous in making red blood cells 36 00:01:21,299 --> 00:01:25,618 Clump it was a saturated fat at least 37 00:01:23,579 --> 00:01:27,599 they're not research in many of my 38 00:01:25,618 --> 00:01:29,759 colleagues research is the combination 39 00:01:27,599 --> 00:01:32,280 of these these fats especially in 40 00:01:29,759 --> 00:01:35,280 combination with too much copper iron 41 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,599 and zinc that is really harmful to the 42 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,700 brain next fat let's talk about 43 00:01:36,599 --> 00:01:40,078 saturated fat well I could write a whole 44 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:42,780 book on that in fact I kind of almost 45 00:01:40,078 --> 00:01:44,819 did called eat fat get thin and how we 46 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:47,040 got to the view that saturated fat was 47 00:01:44,819 --> 00:01:50,938 bad and why it's not the boogeyman 48 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:53,100 anymore and they say red meat is bad 49 00:01:50,938 --> 00:01:55,139 well actually red meat probably is bad 50 00:01:53,099 --> 00:01:57,239 so why do we believe that red meat 51 00:01:55,140 --> 00:02:01,019 causes colon cancer I'll tell you why 52 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:02,699 the 2015 iarc International Association 53 00:02:01,019 --> 00:02:04,500 for research on cancer which is a who 54 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,060 working group that is where most of our 55 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:07,859 misconceptions regarding red meat and 56 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:10,439 cancer come from the people who consume 57 00:02:07,859 --> 00:02:12,300 uh between one and two cups of dark 58 00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:15,359 leafy greens every day have brains that 59 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:18,300 perform up to 11 years younger the whole 60 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:21,500 produce department is a human invention 61 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:24,060 attempt to make plants edible 62 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:25,620 if you are an American so the odds are 63 00:02:24,060 --> 00:02:27,420 stacked against you and you don't have a 64 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:29,520 strong Science Background or the time to 65 00:02:27,419 --> 00:02:32,219 sort out this mess how is it even 66 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,659 possible to decide who to trust I 67 00:02:32,219 --> 00:02:35,639 sometimes wonder if we wouldn't have 68 00:02:33,659 --> 00:02:38,520 less of a problem if we weren't so 69 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,919 obsessed by the latest diet Trends I 70 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,019 have had an unnatural fascination with 71 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,539 nutrition books so somehow I've read 72 00:02:43,019 --> 00:02:48,060 over 200 of them over the past few 73 00:02:45,539 --> 00:02:50,459 decades some date back centuries and one 74 00:02:48,060 --> 00:02:52,800 was published last week with the help of 75 00:02:50,459 --> 00:02:54,659 Google translate I read a book from a 76 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,840 Japanese nutrition Professor who was 77 00:02:54,659 --> 00:02:59,519 sharp until he died at 105. I also read 78 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:02,580 a book from his Chinese counterpart who 79 00:02:59,519 --> 00:03:04,500 was sharp until he died at 110. this is 80 00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:06,239 just the tip of the iceberg for my book 81 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:08,639 problem because only so many would fit 82 00:03:06,239 --> 00:03:10,680 on this table and most of them are on 83 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,539 Kindle or audio when I'm running or 84 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,000 biking or doing chores I almost always 85 00:03:12,539 --> 00:03:17,219 have a book playing in my ears Tony and 86 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,139 I also started a technical bookstore in 87 00:03:17,219 --> 00:03:20,939 our garage in the early days of the 88 00:03:19,139 --> 00:03:23,279 internet which grew to 100 billion in 89 00:03:20,939 --> 00:03:25,079 sales in four years went public on the 90 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,360 NASDAQ and was bought by Barnes and 91 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,040 Noble when they were riding high so I 92 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,680 think I know a few things about what 93 00:03:29,039 --> 00:03:33,900 makes non-fiction books sell but of all 94 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,239 genres how did I get so fascinated with 95 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:38,158 nutrition books for one thing I find the 96 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:40,920 question of how we came to our beliefs 97 00:03:38,158 --> 00:03:42,780 so fascinating and how did we become so 98 00:03:40,919 --> 00:03:45,179 convinced in them and that that other 99 00:03:42,780 --> 00:03:46,860 idiot on the Internet is wrong and for 100 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:49,200 another so much is at stake with 101 00:03:46,860 --> 00:03:51,420 nutrition obscene healthcare costs we 102 00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:53,280 can't afford and so much sorrow when 103 00:03:51,419 --> 00:03:56,158 nutrition goes badly and so much 104 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,019 happiness when it goes well so I made a 105 00:03:56,158 --> 00:04:00,120 spreadsheet of the most influential and 106 00:03:58,019 --> 00:04:02,039 best-selling authors of recent decades 107 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,360 Sudden Change in venue I'm at the 108 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:06,419 hospital and my daughter's about to have 109 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:09,019 a baby on New Year's Eve whoa she's a 110 00:04:06,419 --> 00:04:09,018 New Year's baby 111 00:04:09,419 --> 00:04:13,919 first baby born of the New Year in the 112 00:04:11,699 --> 00:04:15,719 hospital okay we were talking about my 113 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:17,579 spreadsheet because I was curious as to 114 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:19,259 what patterns would emerge do doctors 115 00:04:17,579 --> 00:04:20,819 sell more books than celebrities and 116 00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:22,978 internet influencers how about 117 00:04:20,819 --> 00:04:24,120 scientists I made columns for the 118 00:04:22,978 --> 00:04:26,099 background of the author their 119 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,680 scientific stature if any the main 120 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:30,419 message ratings on Amazon sales when I 121 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,220 could get them whether they made the New 122 00:04:30,418 --> 00:04:34,079 York Times bestseller list what the 123 00:04:32,220 --> 00:04:35,820 author stood to gain and even whether 124 00:04:34,079 --> 00:04:38,219 any of the authors had descended into 125 00:04:35,819 --> 00:04:40,500 conspiracy territory as I believe a few 126 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:42,720 have you're probably wondering how I 127 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:43,800 judged their scientific stature if they 128 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,380 were a journalist or an internet 129 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,900 influencer without a scientific degree I 130 00:04:46,379 --> 00:04:50,639 gave them a low if they were a doctor I 131 00:04:48,899 --> 00:04:52,198 automatically gave them a medium unless 132 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,819 they were involved in scientific studies 133 00:04:52,199 --> 00:04:55,800 and published papers and then I gave 134 00:04:53,819 --> 00:04:57,599 them a high if they were a scientist 135 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,000 actually doing science and Publishing 136 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,460 well-sided Publications then I gave them 137 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,860 a high otherwise I gave them a medium 138 00:05:02,459 --> 00:05:06,899 and that's what I would give myself it's 139 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:08,699 fascinating to see what patterns emerge 140 00:05:06,899 --> 00:05:10,560 but before we get to that we should see 141 00:05:08,699 --> 00:05:12,840 what best-selling authors and Publishers 142 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,540 know about what makes a non-fiction book 143 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:18,000 sell here are two Awesome books about 144 00:05:15,540 --> 00:05:19,800 that for example in every Thriller the 145 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,660 protagonist must be at the complete 146 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,900 mercy of the villain at some point in 147 00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:26,699 the story think of Indiana Jones also to 148 00:05:24,899 --> 00:05:28,319 completely win over an audience the 149 00:05:26,699 --> 00:05:30,600 protagonist must be willing to give up 150 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:32,459 everything for the cause think of Matt 151 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,919 Damon giving up his career for his kids 152 00:05:32,459 --> 00:05:36,538 in the movie We Bought a Zoo oh you 153 00:05:34,918 --> 00:05:38,698 don't think those story lines apply to 154 00:05:36,538 --> 00:05:40,800 nutrition books we'll see about that 155 00:05:38,699 --> 00:05:42,900 diet and nutrition books are often 156 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,280 considered self-help books and the part 157 00:05:42,899 --> 00:05:46,319 I really don't understand if you're 158 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,559 looking for self-help why would you read 159 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:52,639 a book written by somebody else 160 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,319 that's not self-help that's hell 161 00:05:52,639 --> 00:05:57,660 and one of the keys to self-help books 162 00:05:55,319 --> 00:06:00,538 is the promise and the second thing even 163 00:05:57,660 --> 00:06:02,880 a non-fiction book needs is suspense as 164 00:06:00,538 --> 00:06:04,740 a professional book editor my job is to 165 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:07,500 help writers strengthen their stories 166 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:10,319 actually most narratives of any kind 167 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:12,478 fiction or non-fiction use suspense to 168 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:14,879 engage the reader so this really is a 169 00:06:12,478 --> 00:06:16,800 key element of any type of narrative for 170 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:19,079 example here are two unlikely best 171 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,020 sellers with strong promises and a sense 172 00:06:19,079 --> 00:06:23,399 of suspense right on their covers 173 00:06:21,019 --> 00:06:25,439 scientists are notoriously weak 174 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:27,359 storytellers with a few exceptions so 175 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,399 they come out with covers like this 176 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,319 that's from arguably one of the most 177 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:33,179 credible sinus in my spreadsheet and 178 00:06:31,319 --> 00:06:35,879 gets great reviews from other scientists 179 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:37,860 for how airtight its references are but 180 00:06:35,879 --> 00:06:40,019 it didn't sell well that's a promise 181 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:41,520 used by many book skeletons passed by 182 00:06:40,019 --> 00:06:43,560 credible scientists that didn't sell 183 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:45,120 well either and there's no suspense 184 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,459 because I could tell from the cover you 185 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,918 want me to eat broccoli same with Walter 186 00:06:47,459 --> 00:06:52,258 willett's book week promise low suspense 187 00:06:49,918 --> 00:06:54,418 if you are a liberal arts major with no 188 00:06:52,259 --> 00:06:56,100 nutritional Science Background you can 189 00:06:54,418 --> 00:06:58,198 still have a bestseller in America if 190 00:06:56,100 --> 00:07:00,539 you make extraordinary promises Tim 191 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:02,580 ferriss's book makes promises like reach 192 00:07:00,538 --> 00:07:04,379 your genetic potential in six months 193 00:07:02,579 --> 00:07:06,839 sleep two hours per day and perform 194 00:07:04,379 --> 00:07:09,418 better lose more fat than a marathoner 195 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,038 by binging best seller I wonder how many 196 00:07:09,418 --> 00:07:12,839 Americans found out sleeping two hours 197 00:07:11,038 --> 00:07:14,818 per night and binging didn't work for 198 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:16,918 them and moved on to the next book with 199 00:07:14,819 --> 00:07:18,720 big promises although scientists can't 200 00:07:16,918 --> 00:07:20,698 write books like that without destroying 201 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,440 their reputation they can get on the 202 00:07:20,699 --> 00:07:24,240 best seller list if they made genuine 203 00:07:22,439 --> 00:07:26,519 discoveries like Nobel Prize winner 204 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,918 Elizabeth Blackburn made with telomeres 205 00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:31,198 or brain scientist Lisa mosconi did with 206 00:07:28,918 --> 00:07:33,120 how menopause increases Alzheimer's risk 207 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:34,800 they both worked with co-authors which 208 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:37,319 usually helps scientists who are usually 209 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,879 storytelling impaired a great example of 210 00:07:37,319 --> 00:07:41,360 what a co-author can do is for the 211 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:44,098 multi-million book seller how not to die 212 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,598 co-author Jean Stone has a bachelor's in 213 00:07:44,098 --> 00:07:47,699 English from Stanford a masters from 214 00:07:45,598 --> 00:07:49,439 Harvard with an editor for Esquire and 215 00:07:47,699 --> 00:07:51,180 Simon and Schuster and the force behind 216 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:53,339 many New York Times number one best 217 00:07:51,180 --> 00:07:55,439 sellers how they constructed that book 218 00:07:53,339 --> 00:07:57,119 reminds me how another great Storyteller 219 00:07:55,439 --> 00:08:00,240 who I used to work for Steve Jobs 220 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:02,220 constructed Apple Stores Steve hired Ron 221 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,379 Johnson from Target to help design the 222 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:06,660 stores the initial thought was to design 223 00:08:04,379 --> 00:08:08,519 the stores around products so Macs and 224 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:10,860 iPhones would have their own sections a 225 00:08:08,519 --> 00:08:12,598 traditional design but Ron suggested 226 00:08:10,860 --> 00:08:14,939 they organized them around the problems 227 00:08:12,598 --> 00:08:16,800 customers wanted to solve so the same 228 00:08:14,939 --> 00:08:19,139 products may appear in several sections 229 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,639 of the store this story the store tells 230 00:08:19,139 --> 00:08:22,620 to customers as they walk in the store 231 00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:24,660 is we know what you're interested in and 232 00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:26,399 here's everything you need for that the 233 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:28,560 book how not to die is organized around 234 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:30,839 our leading diseases with a chapter for 235 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,879 each the story it tells is we know it 236 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:34,679 concerns you losing your mind getting a 237 00:08:32,879 --> 00:08:37,259 heart attack and here's what you can eat 238 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,778 for those the same Foods appear across 239 00:08:37,259 --> 00:08:42,000 many diseases which brings up another 240 00:08:39,778 --> 00:08:44,038 mystery book how did The China Study 241 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,080 become a multi-million book seller and 242 00:08:44,038 --> 00:08:48,059 stay on the Amazon top 200 list for 243 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,560 almost a decade it's a vegan book and 244 00:08:48,059 --> 00:08:51,419 only three percent of Americans are 245 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,399 vegans and from a minor publisher with 246 00:08:51,419 --> 00:08:56,278 no promotional budget and some pretty 247 00:08:53,399 --> 00:08:58,200 heavy science to understand that is to 248 00:08:56,278 --> 00:09:00,240 understand what makes great non-fiction 249 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,220 who better to explain that than Rachel 250 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,200 Aviv the celebrated non-fiction 251 00:09:02,220 --> 00:09:05,639 journalist for the New Yorker when I'm 252 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,879 looking for a story I try to make sure 253 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:09,958 that I have two strands that intersect 254 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:11,939 the first is that I want to make sure 255 00:09:09,958 --> 00:09:13,859 I'm writing about an issue that has some 256 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:15,779 social or political or cultural 257 00:09:13,860 --> 00:09:17,879 significance and relevance 258 00:09:15,778 --> 00:09:20,220 but that on its own is usually not 259 00:09:17,879 --> 00:09:22,919 enough in order to explore that issue or 260 00:09:20,220 --> 00:09:24,839 theme or Trend or dilemma I also need a 261 00:09:22,919 --> 00:09:27,360 second strand which is a character who 262 00:09:24,839 --> 00:09:29,399 can act as a kind of through line a 263 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,440 guide who allows readers to care about a 264 00:09:29,399 --> 00:09:33,299 particular trend for me picking this 265 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,339 guide or this character is one of the 266 00:09:33,299 --> 00:09:37,439 most important parts of writing the 267 00:09:35,339 --> 00:09:38,760 story I found that is often the 268 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,500 difference between writing a story that 269 00:09:38,759 --> 00:09:42,600 someone will read and writing a story 270 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:44,879 that someone won't read The China Study 271 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,740 is told with sinus Colin Campbell as the 272 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:48,480 protagonist it's the story of his 273 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:50,459 adventure of Discovery his struggles 274 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,860 with politics and the mean people who 275 00:09:50,458 --> 00:09:55,439 tried to thwart him here's what experts 276 00:09:52,860 --> 00:09:59,459 in non-fiction often say so the answer 277 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:02,820 is to bring yourself and your story Into 278 00:09:59,458 --> 00:10:05,099 the book even if it is a non-fiction 279 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:07,800 book on a topic that's meant to be quite 280 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:10,500 serious when your heart bring your life 281 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:12,479 Dr Bernstein did that masterfully with 282 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:15,240 his low carb High meat diet books for 283 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,459 type 1 diabetics and became a legend Dr 284 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,919 Bolsa which did it for his best seller 285 00:10:17,458 --> 00:10:21,958 fiber fueled who knew that a guy who 286 00:10:19,919 --> 00:10:24,599 does colonoscopies for a living could 287 00:10:21,958 --> 00:10:26,699 write a bestseller building an honest 288 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,800 narrative around human stories is called 289 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:31,140 creative nonfiction and the name of one 290 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:34,199 of its Godfathers is spelled gut kind 291 00:10:31,139 --> 00:10:36,480 I'm not making that up his name would be 292 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,580 amazing for a gut health book and you 293 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,399 can't make this stuff up as a complete 294 00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:44,160 guide to every aspect of creative 295 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,799 nonfiction the traditional writer will 296 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:49,199 just talk to you and tell you things and 297 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:51,719 the fiction writer will tell you lots of 298 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,300 stories but those stories could be made 299 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:57,300 up or exaggerated but when you write 300 00:10:54,299 --> 00:10:58,679 creative nonfiction you are promising 301 00:10:57,299 --> 00:11:00,719 the reader that you're going to 302 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,179 entertain them cinematically with 303 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,480 stories but promising the reader at the 304 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:08,939 same time that whatever you say is going 305 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,560 to be accurate and true the trouble with 306 00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:12,360 creative nonfiction is when the 307 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,819 characters aren't heroic or evil enough 308 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,278 authors sometimes dramatize it into a 309 00:11:14,820 --> 00:11:19,320 work of seminar fiction my co-workers 310 00:11:17,278 --> 00:11:21,419 from my Steve Jobs years were profiled 311 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,180 in a movie about Steve written by Aaron 312 00:11:21,419 --> 00:11:26,278 Sorkin they said Aaron could not resist 313 00:11:24,179 --> 00:11:27,899 embellishments so they said it was no 314 00:11:26,278 --> 00:11:31,019 longer the Steve they knew when the film 315 00:11:27,899 --> 00:11:33,000 came out I agreed and that exactly 316 00:11:31,019 --> 00:11:35,639 explains the influential bestsellers 317 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,679 from Gary taubs and Nino taishals both 318 00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:39,179 authors are very talented very well 319 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,458 trained journalists and great 320 00:11:39,179 --> 00:11:43,559 storytellers they have one of the most 321 00:11:41,458 --> 00:11:45,958 powerful promises you can have in beef 322 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,239 obsessed America meat and butter can be 323 00:11:45,958 --> 00:11:50,278 part of a healthy diet and the suspense 324 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:52,259 is over the top how can that be after 325 00:11:50,278 --> 00:11:54,778 all we've been told are sinus 326 00:11:52,259 --> 00:11:56,759 incompetent are they evil great stories 327 00:11:54,778 --> 00:11:58,919 like this require a great villain so 328 00:11:56,759 --> 00:12:00,899 they chose to semi-fictionalize the most 329 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:03,120 influential nutrition scientist of all 330 00:12:00,899 --> 00:12:04,679 time and he was easily the most influent 331 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,360 he still is the most influential 332 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,278 nutrition scientist in the history of 333 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,159 nutrition science they said it was all 334 00:12:08,278 --> 00:12:13,799 the things we love the hate a bully he 335 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:17,578 was called arrogant and a bully even by 336 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:19,078 his friends dishonest Keys did a lot of 337 00:12:17,578 --> 00:12:20,578 you know there's hardly a better word 338 00:12:19,078 --> 00:12:22,859 for it than kind of saying fudging the 339 00:12:20,578 --> 00:12:24,179 data incompetent I literally got off the 340 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:26,459 phone with this guy and I called my 341 00:12:24,179 --> 00:12:27,659 editor at science and I said you know 342 00:12:26,458 --> 00:12:29,819 this is clearly one of the worst times 343 00:12:27,659 --> 00:12:30,838 you can tell a bad scientist I said one 344 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:32,820 of the worst scientists I've ever 345 00:12:30,839 --> 00:12:35,399 interviewed I don't know what the story 346 00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:37,440 is but I'm going to pursue it because if 347 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:40,639 this guy was involved in any substantial 348 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,380 way I know there's a story there 349 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:45,059 oh look grandkids and they all want me 350 00:12:43,379 --> 00:12:47,000 to play tag why aren't you dressed 351 00:12:45,059 --> 00:12:50,819 warmer 352 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:52,679 and I forgot it oh and they implied he 353 00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:55,320 catalyzed the low-fat craze in America 354 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,078 and made us all fat it started with 355 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:00,720 Ansel Keys getting himself onto the 356 00:12:58,078 --> 00:13:04,078 nutrition panel at the American Heart 357 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,360 Association in 1961. the problem they 358 00:13:04,078 --> 00:13:08,278 had is it is an obvious fiction because 359 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,500 he popularized the Mediterranean diet 360 00:13:08,278 --> 00:13:12,360 which is not low fat and right on the 361 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:14,458 cover of his best-selling book is olive 362 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,740 oil fish and cheese none of which are 363 00:13:14,458 --> 00:13:18,899 low-fat but the Great Advantage they had 364 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:20,759 is he has long gone and his best-selling 365 00:13:18,899 --> 00:13:22,980 book is long out of print who would even 366 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:25,559 know about it anymore much less read it 367 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:27,659 just me and nutrition scientists 368 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,278 unfortunately I'm very familiar with 369 00:13:27,659 --> 00:13:30,958 books like this because before I moved 370 00:13:29,278 --> 00:13:33,360 to Silicon Valley to work in Tech in 371 00:13:30,958 --> 00:13:35,219 1990 when no less of a figure than the 372 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,740 head of NASA Goddard space Studies 373 00:13:35,220 --> 00:13:39,480 Institute testified to Congress in 1988 374 00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:41,159 about the greenhouse effect which he 375 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,019 understood better than anyone because he 376 00:13:41,159 --> 00:13:45,480 figured out that's why Venus was so hot 377 00:13:43,019 --> 00:13:47,240 we are sinus thought awesome now the 378 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,440 public will finally know what we know 379 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,778 what do I know 380 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,639 that would cause me a reticent 381 00:13:51,778 --> 00:13:55,679 Midwestern scientist 382 00:13:53,639 --> 00:13:58,139 to get myself arrested 383 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:01,138 in front of the White House protesting 384 00:13:58,139 --> 00:14:02,820 and what would you do if you knew what I 385 00:14:01,139 --> 00:14:05,039 know but the Koch brothers Rupert 386 00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:08,040 Murdoch and Exxon flooded The Zone with 387 00:14:05,039 --> 00:14:10,500 PR and semi-nonfiction books were part 388 00:14:08,039 --> 00:14:11,939 of the strategy David after Dr Hansen 389 00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:13,980 the scientist who had testified to 390 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:16,079 Congress over the next three decades 391 00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:18,899 NASA and science lost the Koch brothers 392 00:14:16,078 --> 00:14:21,419 in Exxon 1 and science took a big hit to 393 00:14:18,899 --> 00:14:23,639 its reputation among the public 35 years 394 00:14:21,419 --> 00:14:25,979 later my perception is more people are 395 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:28,320 seeing the fires and floods and thinking 396 00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:29,759 Hmm perhaps it really is true that all 397 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,339 disaster movies begin with someone 398 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:34,259 ignoring a scientist Dr Henson's 399 00:14:32,339 --> 00:14:35,880 testimony has stood the test of time and 400 00:14:34,259 --> 00:14:37,559 I'm not aware of any legit climate 401 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:39,720 scientists who discount him like the 402 00:14:37,559 --> 00:14:41,638 internet does nor have they ever Nina 403 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,019 and Gary have very convincing ways to 404 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:45,419 make people believe their books are 405 00:14:43,019 --> 00:14:47,698 factual they flood the Zone with old 406 00:14:45,419 --> 00:14:49,620 obscure references that are very hard to 407 00:14:47,698 --> 00:14:52,019 fact check and they misrepresent them 408 00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:54,659 for example Gary often references Hilda 409 00:14:52,019 --> 00:14:56,578 Brook who wrote the 1957 book the 410 00:14:54,659 --> 00:14:59,159 importance of overweight try to find 411 00:14:56,578 --> 00:15:01,439 that at a rare Bookseller or scan copy 412 00:14:59,159 --> 00:15:04,259 anywhere but I know one person who has a 413 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,600 copy me and it doesn't say what Gary 414 00:15:04,259 --> 00:15:08,519 says it does nor do many of his or 415 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,740 Nina's references you don't have to 416 00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:12,778 believe me about their references Seth 417 00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:15,000 Yoder who has a master's degree in 418 00:15:12,778 --> 00:15:17,039 nutrition science posted exhaustive 419 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,019 reference checks nutrition Professor 420 00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:21,599 Marion Nestle who is very reliable 421 00:15:19,019 --> 00:15:22,980 blogged about it Darius mozafarian the 422 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,019 dean of tough School of nutrition 423 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:27,000 tweeted about it the people who actually 424 00:15:25,019 --> 00:15:28,919 worked for answer keys for decades 425 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,399 called Nina's references out in the 426 00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:31,399 Lancet 427 00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:38,039 so Gary and Nina pretty much won among 428 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,839 consumers pretty much wrecking the 429 00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:41,879 reputation of the world's most prominent 430 00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:43,139 nutrition scientist and shaking the 431 00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:45,360 faith of the American public in 432 00:15:43,139 --> 00:15:46,980 nutrition science overall but answer key 433 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,720 is one among nutrition scientists and 434 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:50,519 the dietary pattern that he recommended 435 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,800 the Mediterranean diet has become the 436 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:54,299 most respected diet among them I'll get 437 00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:55,919 to what I think Gary and Nina's 438 00:15:54,299 --> 00:15:57,838 motivation may have been but first the 439 00:15:55,919 --> 00:16:00,120 story of the phenomenal bestseller the 440 00:15:57,839 --> 00:16:01,440 Obesity code is quite fascinating this 441 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,899 episode is about the American book 442 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,519 market and Dr Fung is Canadian but his 443 00:16:03,899 --> 00:16:07,980 books are very popular in America 444 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:09,959 nutrition scientists often point to the 445 00:16:07,980 --> 00:16:12,120 Canadian food guide as less influenced 446 00:16:09,958 --> 00:16:14,219 by lobbyists and more akin to the Guides 447 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,720 of the Nordic countries in Japan where 448 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:17,399 men live more than four years longer 449 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,800 than American men with half the health 450 00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:21,958 care costs like in Canada the Obesity 451 00:16:19,799 --> 00:16:23,399 code illustrates how doctors often speak 452 00:16:21,958 --> 00:16:25,500 to the public differently than 453 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:27,480 scientists generally do for one thing 454 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:29,879 doctors often speak with a great deal of 455 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,759 certainty heart disease is an absolutely 456 00:16:29,879 --> 00:16:36,838 toothless paper tiger that need never 457 00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:39,120 ever exist if you suffer from anxiety or 458 00:16:36,839 --> 00:16:41,100 depression you have a leaky gut 459 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,019 scientists are often more reserved and 460 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:45,300 generally speak in terms of probability 461 00:16:43,019 --> 00:16:48,240 and risk and what we do see is about a 462 00:16:45,299 --> 00:16:50,159 50 lower risk of colorectal cancer for 463 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,620 women with higher blood vitamin D levels 464 00:16:50,159 --> 00:16:54,539 we're not 100 sure that that's cause and 465 00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:55,799 effect as doctors know because they 466 00:16:54,539 --> 00:16:57,899 interact with patients every day 467 00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:59,879 patients generally like a confident 468 00:16:57,899 --> 00:17:01,559 demeanor the scientists in my 469 00:16:59,879 --> 00:17:04,679 spreadsheet seem more inclined to focus 470 00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:07,318 on one area like brain science Dr fungdo 471 00:17:04,679 --> 00:17:10,199 has books on fasting obesity diabetes 472 00:17:07,318 --> 00:17:12,178 and cancer at a pretty young age many 473 00:17:10,199 --> 00:17:14,279 consumers seem to take that as a sign 474 00:17:12,179 --> 00:17:16,380 that he's brilliant many scientists 475 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:18,000 however tend to think really he's a 476 00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:19,980 kidney disease physician and he's a 477 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,919 world Authority on cancer diabetes and 478 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:24,660 obesity is that really possible what I 479 00:17:22,919 --> 00:17:26,939 think sells Dr Fung's books is he's 480 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:29,100 adapted the storyline of Gary and Nina 481 00:17:26,939 --> 00:17:31,860 but he has the authority and confidence 482 00:17:29,099 --> 00:17:34,379 of an MD for example here's what he says 483 00:17:31,859 --> 00:17:36,418 about pencil keys so they said oh my God 484 00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:38,760 why are Americans having heart attacks 485 00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:41,280 must be the dietary fat right because it 486 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:42,900 can't be the cigarettes the guy who 487 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:44,940 really pushed that with a guy named 488 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,620 Ansel Keys who is a very very prominent 489 00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:48,720 nutritionist he didn't actually look at 490 00:17:46,619 --> 00:17:50,639 every country that he had data on he 491 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,259 actually just took the seven countries 492 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,960 that best fit the line and sort of stuck 493 00:17:52,259 --> 00:17:57,480 them there so if you look at all 22 494 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:00,000 countries that he had data on it it was 495 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,679 a much less tight correlation so he sort 496 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,440 of cherry-picked the data to make his 497 00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:06,240 point look better and just like that he 498 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,100 dismisses the most influential nutrition 499 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,900 scientist of all time and continues on 500 00:18:08,099 --> 00:18:12,178 with a fire hose of quick references 501 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:14,640 like that if you're familiar with the 502 00:18:12,179 --> 00:18:16,080 studies he cites you die each time he 503 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,780 glosses over one like this without 504 00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:21,960 understanding it for example this 22 505 00:18:18,779 --> 00:18:24,240 country chart comes from an obscure 1957 506 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,940 paper that relies on United Nations food 507 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,640 data and the authors describe as subject 508 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:31,500 to severe limitations especially in 509 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,140 countries like France Mexico and what's 510 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:35,819 now called Sri Lanka the authors guessed 511 00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:37,440 it must have to do with how data is 512 00:18:35,819 --> 00:18:40,079 reported differently in different 513 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,360 countries if Ansel Keys had relied on 514 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:44,399 that data instead of launching a 50-year 515 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,259 study to collect reliable data with 516 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,480 blood samples and assays of actual food 517 00:18:46,259 --> 00:18:50,519 eaten I would have lost respect for 518 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,200 Ansel but suppose for a minute that 519 00:18:50,519 --> 00:18:54,359 Jason is right and that data was 520 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,220 reliable enough to be useful then you 521 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,678 have to accept what the data so clearly 522 00:18:56,220 --> 00:19:00,779 shows in that paper that increases in 523 00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:03,419 animal food consumption causes a very 524 00:19:00,779 --> 00:19:05,399 sharp rise in mortality I have Jason's 525 00:19:03,419 --> 00:19:08,160 recipe book and it has many recipes with 526 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,840 bacon and sausage so heat clearly does 527 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,880 not actually believe that data is 528 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:13,980 reliable I think the reason Jason 529 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,539 doesn't show that graph is he's simply 530 00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:17,880 doing what a thousand other people have 531 00:19:15,538 --> 00:19:20,579 done before him and simply quoting Gary 532 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,919 Tobbs without reading the paper Gary was 533 00:19:20,579 --> 00:19:25,199 simply doing what Gary does finding old 534 00:19:22,919 --> 00:19:27,299 obscure references and misrepresenting 535 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,400 them which brings up another key to 536 00:19:27,298 --> 00:19:31,740 influential books if they can make the 537 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,440 best seller list they get special fairy 538 00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:36,419 dust which I think explains why so many 539 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,400 smart people will just accept Gary's 540 00:19:36,419 --> 00:19:40,259 references without checking them and use 541 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,000 them in their own books and speeches for 542 00:19:40,259 --> 00:19:44,279 example here's Duke Professor Eric 543 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,240 Westman himself a best-selling author 544 00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:50,879 one is the Banting diet book from 545 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:53,099 1863. that was the first diet book ever 546 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:56,520 it was a low carb diet the Banting diet 547 00:19:53,099 --> 00:19:58,259 that's an old obscure 14-page pamphlet 548 00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:00,240 written by an Undertaker whose only 549 00:19:58,259 --> 00:20:02,339 knowledge of nutrition is that his ear 550 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,919 doctor advised him to avoid bread butter 551 00:20:02,339 --> 00:20:06,538 milk sugar beer and potatoes Gary 552 00:20:04,919 --> 00:20:08,340 eliminated the reference to butter and 553 00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:10,140 called it a low-carb diet even though 554 00:20:08,339 --> 00:20:12,720 toasted bread and fruit was on the menu 555 00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:15,000 Dr Westman is just repeating what Gary 556 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,500 says about it and there were hundreds of 557 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,960 diet and nutrition books before that 558 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:22,019 written by actual doctors here's one of 559 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,700 my favorites first published in 1653 the 560 00:20:22,019 --> 00:20:25,558 issues of the day were whether fish is 561 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:27,720 healthier than meat Wild game healthier 562 00:20:25,558 --> 00:20:30,240 than tame and Orchard fruit healthier 563 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,179 than Garden fruit even Banting said his 564 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,460 advice was as old as the hill to be fair 565 00:20:33,179 --> 00:20:36,780 to Jason Fung the Obesity code does have 566 00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:38,700 some really good stuff in there about 567 00:20:36,779 --> 00:20:40,259 intermittent fasting and it encourages 568 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:42,120 everyone to eliminate processed 569 00:20:40,259 --> 00:20:44,640 carbohydrate Foods although as recipes 570 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,139 do include a lot of processed Meats it 571 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,960 does have the same through line as Gary 572 00:20:46,140 --> 00:20:51,419 has in his books being overweight is not 573 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,579 your fault the experts in quotes got it 574 00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:55,799 wrong he's emphatic that reducing 575 00:20:53,579 --> 00:20:58,678 calories does not work although he's all 576 00:20:55,798 --> 00:21:00,839 four time restricted feeding all my wild 577 00:20:58,679 --> 00:21:02,940 hats were stolen by Shameless thieves 578 00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:04,558 the Obesity code has a fascinating 579 00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:06,720 backstory the same year it was published 580 00:21:04,558 --> 00:21:08,339 Jason co-authored a book about fasting 581 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,380 that was immensely popular with Jimmy 582 00:21:08,339 --> 00:21:12,359 Moore Jimmy was a super popular 583 00:21:10,380 --> 00:21:14,039 podcaster in the day who had written a 584 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,319 best-selling book about the keto diet 585 00:21:14,038 --> 00:21:18,419 two years before Jimmy has a big 586 00:21:16,319 --> 00:21:20,460 personality and a great back story about 587 00:21:18,419 --> 00:21:22,799 losing 180 pounds in a year on the 588 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:24,720 Atkins diet Jimmy kept podcasting and 589 00:21:22,798 --> 00:21:26,579 writing popular books like the ketogenic 590 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,079 cookbook but if you've watched my 591 00:21:26,579 --> 00:21:30,119 previous episodes you know I've 592 00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:32,279 presented several studies showing keto 593 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,019 diets are phenomenal for losing weight a 594 00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:36,298 year but don't do well for most people 595 00:21:34,019 --> 00:21:38,158 long term so I checked on Jimmy because 596 00:21:36,298 --> 00:21:40,500 he's doing all the things keto 597 00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:42,480 intermittent fasting ice baths and 598 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:43,919 here's his recent message quite frankly 599 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,220 I've been disappointed if I'm being 600 00:21:43,919 --> 00:21:49,200 truly honest which I always am 601 00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:51,179 I'm disappointed 602 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,519 that I'm doing 603 00:21:51,179 --> 00:21:57,659 all of these things 604 00:21:53,519 --> 00:22:00,900 on a consistent basis 100 days in a row 605 00:21:57,659 --> 00:22:02,700 and I have not seen more physical 606 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:05,220 results 607 00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:07,500 as hard as I'm working 608 00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:09,779 for the sustained period that I did I'm 609 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,419 surprised it didn't continue in that 610 00:22:09,779 --> 00:22:14,099 trajectory Jason is adamant in his book 611 00:22:12,419 --> 00:22:16,200 that if you're overweight it's not your 612 00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:19,019 fault it's the experts who misled you 613 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,179 but he is the expert for Jimmy Jimmy 614 00:22:19,019 --> 00:22:23,460 reminds me of another podcaster who lost 615 00:22:21,179 --> 00:22:25,259 even more weight Chuck Carroll but he 616 00:22:23,460 --> 00:22:27,538 landed on a plant-based message by 617 00:22:25,259 --> 00:22:30,179 another best-selling doctor Dr Barnard 618 00:22:27,538 --> 00:22:33,779 but I'm sitting across from Dr Barnard 619 00:22:30,179 --> 00:22:37,500 right now and my heaviest yeah I was 420 620 00:22:33,779 --> 00:22:38,759 pounds and I'm 5'6 on a good day if by 621 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:40,859 this point in the episode you're 622 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:42,419 thinking wait what's more important the 623 00:22:40,859 --> 00:22:44,579 way the book is written or the message 624 00:22:42,419 --> 00:22:46,559 that would be a good segue to my 625 00:22:44,579 --> 00:22:48,058 spreadsheet to make the list the book 626 00:22:46,558 --> 00:22:50,339 either had to make the New York Times 627 00:22:48,058 --> 00:22:52,859 bestseller list or get at least a 628 00:22:50,339 --> 00:22:54,599 thousand ratings on Amazon I made one 629 00:22:52,859 --> 00:22:57,298 exception for Walter willett's book 630 00:22:54,599 --> 00:23:00,058 which fell short at 834 ratings because 631 00:22:57,298 --> 00:23:02,940 he is so influential in nutrition I 632 00:23:00,058 --> 00:23:04,440 ended up with 104 people on the list at 633 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:06,298 least one book was from a Canadian 634 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,159 author and two from the the UK but I 635 00:23:06,298 --> 00:23:10,319 knew them to be on Amazon America's best 636 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:12,000 seller lists these metrics are not 637 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:13,500 perfect indicators of influence because 638 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,298 some books have had more years to 639 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,400 accumulate Amazon ratings for example 640 00:23:15,298 --> 00:23:19,440 but perhaps Amazon didn't have the 641 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,419 traffic 10 years ago it has now who 642 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,580 knows and the position on the New York 643 00:23:21,419 --> 00:23:25,200 Times list varied and so did the time on 644 00:23:23,579 --> 00:23:26,939 the list but they are the best 645 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,880 indicators of influence I could think of 646 00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:31,500 if you had an MD without a PhD but your 647 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,720 primary activity was research I 648 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,220 classified you as a scientist if you 649 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,440 weren't trained in a specialty I 650 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:39,240 categorized you as an author celebs 651 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,759 athletes and journalists got their own 652 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,038 categories I categorize dietary plants 653 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:46,619 which were omnivorous and favored plants 654 00:23:44,038 --> 00:23:48,419 as Mediterranean I combined keto books 655 00:23:46,619 --> 00:23:49,979 with other low-carb plans like Atkins 656 00:23:48,419 --> 00:23:52,200 I'll link the spreadsheet in the 657 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:54,058 description and enable comments so you 658 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,919 can suggest additions and Corrections 659 00:23:54,058 --> 00:23:58,139 the first thing that jumped out at me is 660 00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:59,940 there were almost as many scientists as 661 00:23:58,140 --> 00:24:02,460 doctors that was helped by me 662 00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:04,140 classifying some MDS as scientists like 663 00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:06,779 Dean ornish and Robert lustig because 664 00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:08,220 they do so much search I was afraid 665 00:24:06,779 --> 00:24:10,019 scientists would not do well on this 666 00:24:08,220 --> 00:24:12,000 list because they are not known for 667 00:24:10,019 --> 00:24:13,500 storytelling the second thing is the 668 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,720 Mediterranean pattern owns the biggest 669 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,640 slice with low carbon vegan duking it 670 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,440 out for second the elimination books 671 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,840 were ones like Wheat Belly grain brain 672 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,519 and Dr gundry's lectin books one 673 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,558 fascinating thing is scientists tend to 674 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:27,720 Cluster around a few diets with the 675 00:24:25,558 --> 00:24:29,579 largest by far around the Mediterranean 676 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,259 but with doctors it's much more 677 00:24:29,579 --> 00:24:33,298 scattered with low carb almost as 678 00:24:31,259 --> 00:24:34,679 popular as Mediterranean my 679 00:24:33,298 --> 00:24:36,298 interpretation is scientists are 680 00:24:34,679 --> 00:24:38,460 immersed in the latest research and 681 00:24:36,298 --> 00:24:40,558 doctors are face to face with patients 682 00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:42,240 giving two different perspectives what 683 00:24:40,558 --> 00:24:44,220 sinus see are the results finally 684 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,798 rolling in from longer-term studies of 685 00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:48,298 people on keto diets what doctors see is 686 00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:50,279 some very impressive weight loss and 687 00:24:48,298 --> 00:24:52,079 blood glucose control quickly among 688 00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:54,418 their patients who start on a low carb 689 00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:57,000 diet and some very happy patients during 690 00:24:54,419 --> 00:24:58,799 their 6 and 12 month return visits if 691 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,200 they ever do see long-term results like 692 00:24:58,798 --> 00:25:03,240 Jimmy Moore's they're naturally prone to 693 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,038 write them off as a lack of adherence to 694 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,679 the diet which works so well early on 695 00:25:05,038 --> 00:25:09,720 one final chart I flagged a few authors 696 00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:12,240 who have cashed in with big dollars Way 697 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,579 Beyond book royalties and strangely they 698 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,140 are skewed towards low carb diets for 699 00:25:14,579 --> 00:25:17,879 whatever reason it's the high meat 700 00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:20,220 low-carb crowd that buys a lot of 701 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,500 supplements enabling Mark Sisson to sell 702 00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:24,659 his supplements company to craft for 200 703 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:26,819 million dollars for Mercola to be Mega 704 00:25:24,659 --> 00:25:29,278 rich and liver King to sell 100 million 705 00:25:26,819 --> 00:25:31,200 in supplements just last year Mark Hyman 706 00:25:29,278 --> 00:25:33,240 and Paul saladino hopped on that gravy 707 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,400 train as well as a few in the vegan and 708 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,259 Mediterranean worlds too low carb 709 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,179 scientist Finney and volac co-founded 710 00:25:37,259 --> 00:25:41,339 virta Health to sell keto dieting 711 00:25:39,179 --> 00:25:42,960 raising hundreds of millions in venture 712 00:25:41,339 --> 00:25:44,879 capital and making their company worth 713 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,500 more than 2 billion despite the 714 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,659 five-year data they collected on their 715 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:50,640 customers which looks so good the first 716 00:25:48,659 --> 00:25:53,340 year but doesn't look good after two or 717 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,440 more and finally Nina's book enabled her 718 00:25:53,339 --> 00:25:57,298 to secure a million a year in funding 719 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,220 for what sure looks like a front group 720 00:25:57,298 --> 00:26:01,440 that lobbies and does PR for the beef 721 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:03,778 industry her public appearances seem 722 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:07,080 designed to cast doubt on science which 723 00:26:03,778 --> 00:26:09,599 is what front groups do so three big 724 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:11,220 questions to end the episode first is 725 00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:13,199 the way the story told more important 726 00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:15,240 than the message in nutrition I heard 727 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,159 that Robert Redford said story is more 728 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,500 powerful than acting or cinematography 729 00:26:17,159 --> 00:26:21,659 in an independent film and here's what 730 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:24,419 he said about the most powerful elements 731 00:26:21,659 --> 00:26:26,100 of story to me it's all about story it's 732 00:26:24,419 --> 00:26:27,720 like it was evidence in the deep throat 733 00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:28,740 scene but deep throat kept trying to say 734 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,240 to Woodward 735 00:26:28,740 --> 00:26:32,579 find the story 736 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,620 second step is who are the characters 737 00:26:32,579 --> 00:26:36,658 that embody the story 738 00:26:34,619 --> 00:26:39,119 and the third and most important is 739 00:26:36,659 --> 00:26:40,500 where's the emotion so it has to have 740 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,058 those three steps what's the story one 741 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:43,919 of the characters that embodied the 742 00:26:42,058 --> 00:26:46,079 story and then where's the emotion if it 743 00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:47,759 doesn't have all three then I probably 744 00:26:46,079 --> 00:26:50,038 would not be attracted to it which 745 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:51,599 brings up question number two if you're 746 00:26:50,038 --> 00:26:53,640 an American and you're caught in this 747 00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,500 swirl of advice from various doctors and 748 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,900 the internet each claiming one diet is 749 00:26:55,500 --> 00:27:00,000 superior to the others how do people end 750 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:02,519 up choosing one over the other and get 751 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,038 so emotional about it I think it's the 752 00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:06,658 story and how it resonates with you if 753 00:27:05,038 --> 00:27:08,480 you're a man you're much more likely to 754 00:27:06,659 --> 00:27:11,700 be drawn to appeals to masculinity 755 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,620 mistake that's what a man eats that 756 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:15,960 means shirtless men with six packs who 757 00:27:13,619 --> 00:27:17,278 claim meat gets you ripped if you're a 758 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,140 woman you're much more likely to be 759 00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:22,339 drawn to a story that involves empathy 760 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:22,340 and that means veganism 761 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,119 foreign 762 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,339 and that's why I think most carnivores 763 00:27:38,819 --> 00:27:43,558 are men and most vegans are women and 764 00:27:41,339 --> 00:27:45,178 yet each side believes their diet is the 765 00:27:43,558 --> 00:27:46,859 healthiest these stories have the 766 00:27:45,179 --> 00:27:49,860 characters and emotions that Robert 767 00:27:46,859 --> 00:27:51,058 Redford said was so powerful although 768 00:27:49,859 --> 00:27:54,058 you've called the Greta twinburg 769 00:27:51,058 --> 00:27:55,918 helpline if you're a grown adult who 770 00:27:54,058 --> 00:27:58,859 needs to yell at a child for some reason 771 00:27:55,919 --> 00:28:00,778 the Greta tuneburg helpline is here to 772 00:27:58,859 --> 00:28:03,538 tolerate you 773 00:28:00,778 --> 00:28:06,000 so before you go full caps lock in an 774 00:28:03,538 --> 00:28:09,179 article comment section let our expert 775 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,640 counselors assess your situation we'll 776 00:28:09,179 --> 00:28:13,798 listen no matter how ridiculous you 777 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,200 sound which brings up the last question 778 00:28:13,798 --> 00:28:18,778 most of my sinus friends believe that 779 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,900 simple evidence-based science wins in 780 00:28:18,778 --> 00:28:24,179 the end is that true I say I don't think 781 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,460 that's evidence-based I think powerful 782 00:28:24,179 --> 00:28:28,559 storytellers like Gary and Nina have far 783 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:30,600 more influence over public opinion than 784 00:28:28,558 --> 00:28:32,819 almost any scientist I can think of at 785 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,619 least in America and that brings me to 786 00:28:32,819 --> 00:28:36,960 the time a great scientist schooled me 787 00:28:34,619 --> 00:28:39,778 and I ran outside and burst into tears 788 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:42,298 it was here at Stanford and it was my 789 00:28:39,778 --> 00:28:44,099 first day as a graduate student I was so 790 00:28:42,298 --> 00:28:46,740 nervous to meet my new advisor in that 791 00:28:44,099 --> 00:28:47,759 office my hands were cold he was one of 792 00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:49,200 the greatest scientists of this 793 00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:51,778 generation and the dean of Earth 794 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,700 Sciences that's the Dean's office so I 795 00:28:51,778 --> 00:28:56,159 put my young son on my shoulders to calm 796 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:58,440 myself and hopefully to disarm Dr Cox 797 00:28:56,159 --> 00:29:00,120 with cuteness overload he pulled out my 798 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,759 file and asked a question and I could 799 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:05,399 feel myself eye a little inside Chris 800 00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:07,679 you did so well on your entrance exams 801 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,778 and anything quantitative why did you 802 00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:12,179 only score in the 33rd percentile in 803 00:29:09,778 --> 00:29:14,220 writing I nervously tried to laugh it 804 00:29:12,179 --> 00:29:16,559 off and said I don't do English 805 00:29:14,220 --> 00:29:18,480 sentences I do equations that's why I 806 00:29:16,558 --> 00:29:20,278 went into science I never want to take 807 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,558 another English class as long as I live 808 00:29:20,278 --> 00:29:24,419 he set my file down and said that's the 809 00:29:22,558 --> 00:29:25,859 wrong answer in order to become a great 810 00:29:24,419 --> 00:29:28,320 scientist which is what you've come here 811 00:29:25,859 --> 00:29:30,959 to become you must become a great writer 812 00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:32,759 he said what good is great science if no 813 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,558 one knows about it I'm going to grade 814 00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:36,720 your Master's thesis and if it's not 815 00:29:34,558 --> 00:29:38,460 good writing I won't pass you he must 816 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,798 have known I was starting to fight back 817 00:29:38,460 --> 00:29:42,538 tears I thought I could never become a 818 00:29:40,798 --> 00:29:45,058 great writer and that I could never tell 819 00:29:42,538 --> 00:29:47,339 him why you can watch my tedx talk if 820 00:29:45,058 --> 00:29:49,319 you really want to know outside I burst 821 00:29:47,339 --> 00:29:51,240 into tears and walked around campus for 822 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:53,639 probably an hour crying with Don on my 823 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,740 shoulders poor kid I finally decided I 824 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,259 had to get over myself and so I carved 825 00:29:55,740 --> 00:30:00,058 out at least an hour a day to do what I 826 00:29:58,259 --> 00:30:02,278 detested in the beginning which was to 827 00:30:00,058 --> 00:30:04,019 learn how to write non-fiction I read 828 00:30:02,278 --> 00:30:05,819 everything I could get my hands on from 829 00:30:04,019 --> 00:30:08,038 the three non-fiction writers I admired 830 00:30:05,819 --> 00:30:10,798 most Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill 831 00:30:08,038 --> 00:30:12,839 and Mark Twain and thankfully Dr Cox 832 00:30:10,798 --> 00:30:14,460 noticed when Stanford held a banquet for 833 00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:16,079 one of its largest donors they lined up 834 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:17,519 a who's who of speakers from the 835 00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:19,798 president of the university to the 836 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:21,658 Secretary of State and they wanted a 837 00:30:19,798 --> 00:30:24,298 student to be the concluding speaker and 838 00:30:21,659 --> 00:30:26,340 they chose me I think Dr Cox put them up 839 00:30:24,298 --> 00:30:27,778 to it the traditional thing would have 840 00:30:26,339 --> 00:30:30,240 been to talk about how Stanford has 841 00:30:27,778 --> 00:30:31,798 great professors blah blah blah but I 842 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,319 told the story of growing up on the 843 00:30:31,798 --> 00:30:36,538 streets with my mentally ill mom she had 844 00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:38,278 a masters in biochem from Cornell and 845 00:30:36,538 --> 00:30:40,679 said her greatest wish was for me to get 846 00:30:38,278 --> 00:30:42,538 a master's from a great University it 847 00:30:40,679 --> 00:30:44,700 was an Impossible Dream given our 848 00:30:42,538 --> 00:30:46,140 situation I told the audience I could 849 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:47,819 never have been there were not for 850 00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:50,038 donors Who provided scholarships to 851 00:30:47,819 --> 00:30:51,658 people like me and for a university with 852 00:30:50,038 --> 00:30:54,298 an admissions policy that allowed for 853 00:30:51,659 --> 00:30:56,340 some a f students which I had been 12 854 00:30:54,298 --> 00:30:57,898 years later I thought of Alan Cox when 855 00:30:56,339 --> 00:31:00,359 Steve Jobs asked me to help with his 856 00:30:57,898 --> 00:31:02,339 Keynotes Steve could not understand why 857 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,500 others CEOs did not obsess over 858 00:31:02,339 --> 00:31:06,240 storytelling like he did you can't 859 00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:08,159 imagine the effort he put into his 860 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,399 appearances but his investment paid off 861 00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:13,140 and he changed the world Alan Cox sat in 862 00:31:11,398 --> 00:31:14,879 stunned silences I gave that talk 863 00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:17,220 because I don't think he had any idea 864 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,740 because I didn't tell anybody because it 865 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:21,720 was just too humiliating but wow that 866 00:31:19,740 --> 00:31:24,120 talk opened up opportunities for us and 867 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,980 changed our lives tragically for 868 00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:27,898 Americans concerned about health some of 869 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:29,759 the power of stories has gone to the 870 00:31:27,898 --> 00:31:32,099 dark side so the next time you get 871 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,839 interested in cancer and wonder if a 872 00:31:32,099 --> 00:31:35,939 kidney disease doctor has really brought 873 00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,558 us a revolutionary new understanding of 874 00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:39,840 a medical mystery in his spare time 875 00:31:37,558 --> 00:31:41,278 claiming scientists are wrong and bacon 876 00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:43,019 and sausage will help prevent it 877 00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:45,119 consider if that story could have some 878 00:31:43,019 --> 00:31:47,278 fictional elements to work your emotions 879 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:49,199 you could instead choose a book from a 880 00:31:47,278 --> 00:31:51,538 real scientist who is devoted to cancer 881 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,419 he doesn't have the powerful story Jason 882 00:31:51,538 --> 00:31:56,700 has unless you consider optimizing your 883 00:31:54,419 --> 00:31:58,860 chances against cancer a powerful Story 884 00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:01,019 one thing I learned writing a book about 885 00:31:58,859 --> 00:32:04,019 pop culture hits and entertainment 886 00:32:01,019 --> 00:32:06,538 is that stories are weapons 887 00:32:04,019 --> 00:32:08,759 for good or ill which of your stories 888 00:32:06,538 --> 00:32:11,220 make people laugh I.E crate endorphins 889 00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:12,898 which makes people feel empathy I.E 890 00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:15,899 oxytocin 891 00:32:12,898 --> 00:32:17,939 and the next time you go into a meeting 892 00:32:15,898 --> 00:32:20,879 you've picked the story 893 00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:22,919 you want to release the hormone you wish 894 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,200 in the person that you're talking to to 895 00:32:22,919 --> 00:32:27,000 get exactly the desired effects that you 896 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,080 want 897 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,079 and that's a beautiful thing 68604

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