Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
2
00:00:04,250 --> 00:00:06,600
- I was sort of in New York
at exactly the right time
3
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,603
and exactly the right place.
4
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
5
00:00:11,610 --> 00:00:13,453
Wherever you are is the center.
6
00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:19,403
But I can be in more than
one place at the same time.
7
00:00:22,140 --> 00:00:25,763
Things seemed to really be happening fast.
8
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,640
- He was born face up
instead of face down,
9
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,530
which the doctor called sunny side up.
10
00:00:50,530 --> 00:00:51,573
I guess I should have known right then
11
00:00:51,573 --> 00:00:53,503
that something was gonna be up, huh?
12
00:01:46,066 --> 00:01:48,830
- I grew up in a really
small town in Pennsylvania
13
00:01:48,830 --> 00:01:53,260
called Kutztown, which is
northeast of Philadelphia.
14
00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:55,760
I grew up learning to draw from my father
15
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,730
from about the time when
I was four years old,
16
00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:00,670
and my father used to entertain me
17
00:02:00,670 --> 00:02:03,560
by making small drawings for me.
18
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,240
And I think the biggest
impression that it had
19
00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:11,210
was that instead of teaching me to copy
20
00:02:11,210 --> 00:02:13,850
other cartoon characters or comics,
21
00:02:13,850 --> 00:02:17,521
he wanted me to invent my own characters.
22
00:02:31,521 --> 00:02:34,650
- We had a game where we'd
see how good we could do
23
00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:36,550
drawing with your eyes closed.
24
00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:39,730
Which is a good practice
for getting the rhythm
25
00:02:39,730 --> 00:02:41,180
of your hand and knowing
where your hand is
26
00:02:41,180 --> 00:02:42,530
and what it's doing
27
00:02:42,530 --> 00:02:44,801
without watching, without seeing it.
28
00:02:48,227 --> 00:02:52,400
The hand is very strong, very unique,
29
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,880
and it's like a musician
30
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,350
who has a particular musical signature
31
00:02:59,350 --> 00:03:02,823
that even with a few bars you
know it's somebody's voice,
32
00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:05,660
you see just a few lines of Keith,
33
00:03:05,660 --> 00:03:07,853
you know it's his hand.
34
00:03:18,570 --> 00:03:20,000
Different kids I guess get together
35
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,040
to do different things.
36
00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,030
When you think about it, I
had friends that got together
37
00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:28,350
with their peers to play basketball.
38
00:03:28,350 --> 00:03:32,000
I had friends that got
together to play cards.
39
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,240
We got together to draw.
40
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,050
- I was really obsessed
with Walt Disney a lot.
41
00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:38,370
I loved Walt Disney.
42
00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:39,910
I watched cartoons all the time.
43
00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:42,510
- I think we had a
fascination with all kinds
44
00:03:42,510 --> 00:03:44,270
of genre, if you will.
45
00:03:44,270 --> 00:03:47,400
And we were taking it pretty seriously.
46
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,080
I mean, at that time, we were fully aware
47
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,235
of who Picasso and all these guys were.
48
00:03:52,235 --> 00:03:54,870
We were aware of the work that they did.
49
00:03:54,870 --> 00:03:57,700
We were aware of how many pieces Picasso
50
00:03:57,700 --> 00:04:00,260
had created in his lifetime.
51
00:04:00,260 --> 00:04:02,210
And I don't think we were 10 years old.
52
00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:04,590
He was always drawing,
53
00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:08,690
so it was kind of a continuous evolution.
54
00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:10,690
So I always knew he was good at it.
55
00:04:10,690 --> 00:04:12,160
I always knew he could draw
56
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,390
and do artwork as well as my dad,
57
00:04:14,390 --> 00:04:17,270
and was always a little
jealous of that fact,
58
00:04:17,270 --> 00:04:18,555
because I couldn't.
59
00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:34,300
- At about 12, I
started delivering newspapers,
60
00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:36,340
and I started a newspaper route
61
00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:39,530
which I delivered everyday,
including Sundays.
62
00:04:39,530 --> 00:04:42,945
Everyday after school,
and on a bicycle usually.
63
00:04:42,945 --> 00:04:45,580
And this was also actually
probably interesting
64
00:04:45,580 --> 00:04:49,710
because it meant that from 12 until 16,
65
00:04:49,710 --> 00:04:53,953
which is 1970 to 1974,
66
00:04:55,330 --> 00:04:57,020
everyday I was reading the front page
67
00:04:57,020 --> 00:04:57,900
of the newspaper.
68
00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:59,920
And this was during the
end of the Vietnam War,
69
00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:01,670
and into Watergate.
70
00:05:01,670 --> 00:05:03,210
And Sundays it was also
71
00:05:04,130 --> 00:05:06,930
then maybe one of the
first times when I became
72
00:05:06,930 --> 00:05:08,870
or had another thing that
made me close to my father
73
00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:12,170
was because on Sundays the
newspapers are very thick
74
00:05:12,170 --> 00:05:14,690
because the comics and
all these other sections.
75
00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:17,130
So Sunday mornings I would deliver them
76
00:05:17,130 --> 00:05:19,200
with my father every Sunday morning,
77
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,260
we were waking up at six
or seven in the morning,
78
00:05:22,260 --> 00:05:23,760
or how early we'd get up so that we could
79
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,007
- deliver the papers--
- Together.
80
00:05:25,007 --> 00:05:27,310
- And get done
in time to go to church
81
00:05:27,310 --> 00:05:29,463
and come home and have
breakfast and go to church.
82
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,640
- We grew up in a family that
went to church every week,
83
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,280
and because we were quite
active, Keith and I,
84
00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:41,360
and my younger sister
Karen, in the youth group,
85
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,840
that gave us an opportunity
86
00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:46,930
to really figure out where religion
87
00:05:46,930 --> 00:05:49,503
maybe had a meaning to us in our lives.
88
00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:55,510
I went to church camp for many years,
89
00:05:55,510 --> 00:05:57,070
and we'd encouraged Keith to go,
90
00:05:57,070 --> 00:05:58,810
and then the girls all went too.
91
00:05:58,810 --> 00:06:00,490
There was one of the first times
92
00:06:00,490 --> 00:06:02,790
that he met people from the city.
93
00:06:02,790 --> 00:06:03,763
Black people.
94
00:06:06,530 --> 00:06:09,260
Mostly blacks, which we
didn't have in Kutztown
95
00:06:09,260 --> 00:06:10,910
at that time.
96
00:06:10,910 --> 00:06:15,100
And he got to know
people from Philadelphia,
97
00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:17,857
which was this big city far away.
98
00:06:36,910 --> 00:06:39,130
- There was a couple years
towards the end of high school
99
00:06:39,130 --> 00:06:40,860
that I just thought he was really sort of
100
00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:42,673
running around with the wrong kids.
101
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,150
That was a tough time.
102
00:06:45,150 --> 00:06:47,890
It wasn't until he was in about 11th grade
103
00:06:47,890 --> 00:06:49,800
when he started hanging out with some,
104
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,990
hanging out, so to speak,
with some guy in his class
105
00:06:52,990 --> 00:06:55,530
that we really didn't like.
106
00:06:55,530 --> 00:06:57,120
- I had three sisters
that were younger than me,
107
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,660
and one of them was much younger,
108
00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:01,910
and she was born when I was about 10.
109
00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:04,300
So I would really spend
a lot of time with her
110
00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:06,150
when I was growing up,
111
00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:09,233
and spent a lot of time drawing with her.
112
00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:12,530
I had no judgment of him.
113
00:07:12,530 --> 00:07:13,780
I was an infant.
114
00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:15,300
There was no way that I was going to be
115
00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,610
trying to categorize him as being
116
00:07:17,610 --> 00:07:21,150
a good boy, or misbehaving in school.
117
00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:24,550
So I had no opinions formed of him,
118
00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:25,920
and he could make a connection with me
119
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:26,930
that was direct.
120
00:07:26,930 --> 00:07:30,350
- I think at that time, he
probably was smoking pot.
121
00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:31,890
Kutztown was a really small town,
122
00:07:31,890 --> 00:07:34,580
so because I was not,
123
00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:35,820
I didn't really fit in
124
00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:39,270
to what the rest of the
normal kids were like,
125
00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:41,808
but as I got a little bit older,
126
00:07:41,808 --> 00:07:43,950
I always used to leave
127
00:07:43,950 --> 00:07:47,530
and hitchhike, and by the time I was 18,
128
00:07:47,530 --> 00:07:51,570
and was allowed to leave
school and leave my parents,
129
00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:53,190
the first thing I wanted to do was get out
130
00:07:53,190 --> 00:07:54,520
of that little town.
131
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,420
And a time it could have been worse.
132
00:07:56,420 --> 00:07:57,850
I think this one's a write-off,
133
00:07:57,850 --> 00:07:59,133
and that one is not good.
134
00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:02,810
What about this one?
135
00:08:02,810 --> 00:08:04,036
That one's okay.
136
00:08:04,036 --> 00:08:05,593
- I didn't mind those little--
137
00:08:05,593 --> 00:08:07,521
- Oh, that one's
not the right color.
138
00:08:07,521 --> 00:08:08,354
Oh it was?
139
00:08:08,354 --> 00:08:10,116
Oh, I thought he'd done that as well.
140
00:08:10,116 --> 00:08:11,651
No that was
141
00:08:11,651 --> 00:08:14,729
from dripping it while
the orange was still wet.
142
00:08:14,729 --> 00:08:17,188
That one's all right.
143
00:08:17,188 --> 00:08:18,589
Oh, don't throw that away though.
144
00:08:18,589 --> 00:08:20,050
I really like it.
145
00:08:20,050 --> 00:08:22,480
- In senior high school
he had an art teacher
146
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,910
who was really good, and he
devoted more time to art.
147
00:08:26,910 --> 00:08:29,360
He got an honorable mention,
148
00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,180
and he got $100.
149
00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:33,890
And he was so proud of this.
150
00:08:33,890 --> 00:08:36,400
It was his first money that he got
151
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,460
from anything, for any of his drawings.
152
00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:43,367
And he said okay, I won $100,
153
00:08:43,367 --> 00:08:47,640
and I'm gonna use that
$100, and he paid his first
154
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,366
down payment to go to
school in Pittsburgh.
155
00:09:11,590 --> 00:09:16,544
- After high school, I went
to a commercial art school
156
00:09:16,544 --> 00:09:18,420
in Pittsburgh for six months,
157
00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:21,270
because at that point,
my parents were still
158
00:09:21,270 --> 00:09:23,060
convincing me that I would never
159
00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:24,410
make any money being an artist,
160
00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:26,140
and if I really wanted to make a living,
161
00:09:26,140 --> 00:09:28,060
I'd have to do commercial art.
162
00:09:28,060 --> 00:09:30,750
So I went to this commercial art school,
163
00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:31,990
on my own savings, really,
164
00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:33,550
from being a paper boy, whatever,
165
00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:35,640
and after six months realized that
166
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,360
no matter what, I didn't want to do that.
167
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,140
I was going to school in Kutztown,
168
00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:42,590
and I was good friend with Kermit Oswald,
169
00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:46,010
and Kermit and Keith
were childhood friends.
170
00:09:46,010 --> 00:09:48,350
Kermit bought a studio down by his house,
171
00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:50,290
and we used to hang out there,
172
00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:51,340
that was like the hang out.
173
00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:53,220
And Keith would come and visit
174
00:09:53,220 --> 00:09:55,140
from wherever he was,
175
00:09:55,140 --> 00:09:57,300
traipsing around, following
the Grateful Dead.
176
00:09:57,300 --> 00:09:58,940
And Keith would stop in,
177
00:09:58,940 --> 00:10:00,140
and that's when I first met him,
178
00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:03,823
and he could always draw
like a son of a gun.
179
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,270
When I started making film in school,
180
00:10:07,270 --> 00:10:12,220
in like '78, '79, the Sony
camcorder that I worked with
181
00:10:12,220 --> 00:10:16,660
weighed 95 pounds, and it
took 24 hours to charge it
182
00:10:16,660 --> 00:10:19,030
to shoot 30 minutes of tape.
183
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:20,370
Reel to reel.
184
00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:21,283
No cassettes.
185
00:10:22,460 --> 00:10:24,330
This goddam thing was like a backpack.
186
00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:25,210
You'd put it on your back,
187
00:10:25,210 --> 00:10:27,210
you're like oh my god, where are we going?
188
00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:28,260
Not far, I hope.
189
00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:30,799
The thing weighs a ton.
190
00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:49,493
- When I was 20, I had my first
one man show in Pittsburgh.
191
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,370
While I was there, there
had also been an exhibition
192
00:10:53,370 --> 00:10:55,820
of Pierre Alechinsky in the museum,
193
00:10:55,820 --> 00:10:58,990
which at that time had a
really big influence on me
194
00:10:58,990 --> 00:11:02,440
because it was the first
time that I had seen
195
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,770
an older artist who had
done an entire body of work
196
00:11:06,770 --> 00:11:08,740
that in some ways was very similar
197
00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:10,930
to the things that I was starting to do,
198
00:11:10,930 --> 00:11:13,160
even though I was 20 years old,
199
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,403
there was something very common that I had
200
00:11:15,403 --> 00:11:19,310
with his work, and it
gave me the confidence
201
00:11:19,310 --> 00:11:22,060
to think that maybe I
was on the right track,
202
00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:25,303
and I was doing something that
was worth taking seriously.
203
00:11:45,490 --> 00:11:48,140
This is very vivid in my memory,
204
00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:52,070
that he stood in the kitchen
and explained to my parents
205
00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:54,080
that he could not be
in Pittsburgh anymore,
206
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,580
that he had to be in New York.
207
00:11:56,670 --> 00:11:58,520
It was a big decision.
208
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,900
Our son was going off to the big city.
209
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,510
I mean, Pittsburgh was a big decision.
210
00:12:02,510 --> 00:12:06,800
I remember I cried and cried when he left.
211
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,663
But New York City, wow.
212
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:32,233
I first met Keith in 1978.
213
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:36,400
It was probably my first week at school,
214
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,086
at the School of Visual Arts.
215
00:12:41,060 --> 00:12:44,180
I heard this Devo music,
216
00:12:44,180 --> 00:12:47,120
and there was Keith in his room,
217
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,150
and he was painting to the beat
218
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:51,450
all these black lines,
219
00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:54,763
and he was kind of painting
himself into the corner.
220
00:12:58,390 --> 00:13:01,640
The first class was drawing
221
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,820
and the teacher said okay,
everybody choose a partner
222
00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:07,640
and draw each other.
223
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,060
And Keith just sort of
came and sat and drew me.
224
00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:14,260
We actually had some classes together
225
00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:15,885
that we were taking at SVA.
226
00:13:15,885 --> 00:13:19,550
One of the classes with Bill Beckley
227
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:21,343
was in semiotics.
228
00:13:22,750 --> 00:13:24,680
And that I think was kind of interesting
229
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:25,980
for both of us.
230
00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:27,170
I've learned from semiotics
231
00:13:27,170 --> 00:13:29,140
in choosing to repeat certain things
232
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:32,610
in their repetition they gain importance
233
00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:35,690
and significance and
turn into something else,
234
00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:37,443
turn into a different kind of sign.
235
00:13:38,510 --> 00:13:43,510
- I first met Keith at School
of Visual Arts in 1978.
236
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:46,520
And I remember looking at his sneakers,
237
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,130
and his legs, and I thought he was a funny
238
00:13:49,130 --> 00:13:49,970
really funny guy.
239
00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:51,410
He was in my class,
240
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:54,170
and then we became really good friends.
241
00:13:54,170 --> 00:13:56,230
And I used to cook spaghetti,
242
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:58,200
and he used to come to
eat spaghetti all the time
243
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,906
to my house.
244
00:13:59,906 --> 00:14:01,208
Th!
245
00:14:01,208 --> 00:14:02,577
Th!
246
00:14:02,577 --> 00:14:03,410
Th!
247
00:14:05,582 --> 00:14:06,415
Five.
248
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:08,553
Five.
249
00:14:08,553 --> 00:14:10,140
One, two, three, four, five.
250
00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:11,190
It's great to be alive.
251
00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:12,023
Five.
252
00:14:16,357 --> 00:14:17,660
Al.
253
00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:19,206
Al.
254
00:14:19,206 --> 00:14:20,173
Al.
255
00:14:22,806 --> 00:14:24,563
Alex, you'd better erase that.
256
00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:26,900
That's how I met Keith,
257
00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:28,570
while he was a student
at School of Visual Arts,
258
00:14:28,570 --> 00:14:31,670
he came to help me as an assistant.
259
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:33,920
He and his friend Kermit
Oswald came to help,
260
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,060
to prepare exhibitions, paint walls,
261
00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:39,760
and install things, and
take things down, of course,
262
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:40,960
and wrap and pack.
263
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,330
You know, as you get ready for a show,
264
00:14:42,330 --> 00:14:44,480
you need some preparation, of course.
265
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,810
But also along with that came
266
00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:47,240
a number of their friends
267
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,810
who helped in the opening, for example.
268
00:14:49,810 --> 00:14:51,790
Either the bar, and
various things like that.
269
00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:54,210
So I met his whole circle of friends,
270
00:14:54,210 --> 00:14:55,363
which was very interesting.
271
00:14:55,363 --> 00:14:57,320
And that's how I met Jean-Michel
Basquiat, for example,
272
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,760
and Kenny Scharf, and so on.
273
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,290
So there was already a group of friends
274
00:15:02,290 --> 00:15:03,840
who were very close together,
275
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,200
and Keith was at the center of it,
276
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,280
you might say.
277
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,040
We needed a place to live,
278
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,950
so we just decided we'd
get a place together.
279
00:15:11,950 --> 00:15:13,660
And he found one.
280
00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:17,490
It was just a total rat trap.
281
00:15:17,490 --> 00:15:18,640
I mean, I never saw rats,
282
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:19,830
but everything else.
283
00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:21,660
They called it a two bedroom.
284
00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:23,100
It was like, I had a bedroom,
285
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:24,623
and Keith lived in the closet.
286
00:15:25,530 --> 00:15:27,980
And it was like, literally the size
287
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:29,300
of a sleeping bag.
288
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:34,300
And he had a stereo, and he
just played the B-52's nonstop
289
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,684
24 hours a day for the
entire time we lived there.
290
00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:45,710
One of the things that started
291
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:47,730
becoming really interesting in a way
292
00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:51,930
that I was combining what
was going on at night
293
00:15:51,930 --> 00:15:53,450
and what was going on in school
294
00:15:53,450 --> 00:15:55,953
was that the subject matter
of many of the drawings
295
00:15:55,953 --> 00:15:58,330
that I was doing,
because I was still doing
296
00:15:58,330 --> 00:16:01,980
these abstract shapes, but I started being
297
00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:05,620
completely obsessed with
doing phallic little,
298
00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:09,020
I mean, the calligraphy
became completely phallic.
299
00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:14,020
Partly really consciously
as a way of asserting
300
00:16:15,912 --> 00:16:20,912
my sexuality, and forcing
people to deal with it,
301
00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:25,410
and so I consciously flaunted the fact
302
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:29,690
that I was interested in
dicks, because I could.
303
00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:33,280
- And we found each
other at the club Baths
304
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,010
across the street, which was
the notorious bath house.
305
00:16:36,010 --> 00:16:38,013
We ran into each other there,
306
00:16:38,013 --> 00:16:40,930
and that's when we both
figured out we were gay,
307
00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:43,170
since we were both at the bath house.
308
00:16:43,170 --> 00:16:45,660
And he was there all the time,
309
00:16:45,660 --> 00:16:47,223
and I was there all the time.
310
00:16:49,678 --> 00:16:50,883
Sin.
311
00:16:50,883 --> 00:16:51,716
Fag.
312
00:16:51,716 --> 00:16:53,089
Devil.
313
00:16:53,089 --> 00:16:54,496
- No.
- No.
314
00:16:54,496 --> 00:16:55,518
Sin.
315
00:16:55,518 --> 00:16:57,066
- Boys.
- Art.
316
00:16:57,066 --> 00:16:58,258
- Sin.
- Art.
317
00:16:58,258 --> 00:17:01,680
- I remember going to
the New St. Mark's Baths
318
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,660
on a Saturday night,
319
00:17:03,660 --> 00:17:06,000
and just thinking like,
god, this must be like
320
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,943
what Rome was like, you know?
321
00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:11,940
All these beautiful, healthy men,
322
00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:15,030
gay men, doing whatever
they wanted with each other.
323
00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:17,163
It was like gay paradise.
324
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:07,300
- Almost immediately
upon my arrival in New York
325
00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:11,950
I had begun to be interested in
326
00:18:11,950 --> 00:18:16,950
and intrigued by, and
fascinated by the graffiti
327
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,480
that I was seeing on the streets.
328
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,520
And so it became sort of an event for me
329
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:22,623
to take the subways.
330
00:18:24,130 --> 00:18:26,980
We were just walking around together.
331
00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:31,190
He would see a graffiti
painting with a cartoon,
332
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:32,870
and I remember Keith would just go man,
333
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:34,510
look at that, look at that.
334
00:18:34,510 --> 00:18:35,570
That should be in the Whitney.
335
00:18:35,570 --> 00:18:37,087
That should be in the
Museum of Modern Art.
336
00:18:37,087 --> 00:18:38,930
And Keith was just like,
337
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:40,830
just totally happy,
338
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,136
we were absorbing it all.
339
00:18:42,136 --> 00:18:42,969
It was like, look, look!
340
00:18:42,969 --> 00:18:44,042
Look at that.
341
00:18:44,042 --> 00:18:44,880
Oh that tag, I've seen that kid.
342
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:46,620
I was like oh yeah, that's so and so.
343
00:18:46,620 --> 00:18:48,930
He became really good
friends with that crew
344
00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:50,090
of graffiti writers.
345
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:52,470
He would later meet LA too,
346
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:54,130
who then he would collaborate with.
347
00:18:54,130 --> 00:18:56,520
They had a very special relationship.
348
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,890
And LA was very successful.
349
00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:02,500
There was almost like a gift from heaven
350
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,100
the way Keith found him,
351
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:06,490
and really was very equitable
352
00:19:06,490 --> 00:19:11,490
in terms of giving him
his share of the money,
353
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,150
because some of Keith's
first major exhibits
354
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:16,407
at the Tony Shafrazi Gallery and whatever,
355
00:19:16,407 --> 00:19:18,750
there would be many pieces
that he would collaborate on
356
00:19:18,750 --> 00:19:20,253
with LA too.
357
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:46,760
The city became a canvas,
358
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,420
and in many ways, a lot
of the younger artists
359
00:19:50,420 --> 00:19:55,080
were living off the fumes of graffiti art.
360
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,690
The artists themselves
within the art world
361
00:19:57,690 --> 00:19:59,340
took a lot of those strategies,
362
00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:01,430
a lot of those expressions,
363
00:20:01,430 --> 00:20:04,730
a lot of the semiotic abbreviations,
364
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:06,920
the ways of signing, the ways of creating
365
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,040
different identities,
the forms of trespass
366
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,850
and intervention and public art,
367
00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:14,980
and worked it into their own language.
368
00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:18,480
And Keith would probably
be one of the best examples
369
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,480
of somebody who really understood
the spirit of graffiti.
370
00:20:23,810 --> 00:20:27,370
- I guess the most noted
painting that I made
371
00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:29,470
in terms of subway graffiti
372
00:20:29,470 --> 00:20:34,470
was whole subway car painted
with Campbell's soup cans.
373
00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:39,900
It was a homage to Andy Warhol.
374
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,290
It was also a message that I was sending
375
00:20:44,290 --> 00:20:48,900
to people throughout New York City.
376
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:53,900
The message was that I
am aware of modern art,
377
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:58,780
of pop art, of the culture,
and the art of making art
378
00:20:58,780 --> 00:21:00,940
in the art world, and
it was also a message
379
00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:05,690
that we as graffiti artists
were not just the animals,
380
00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:08,160
the wild dogs, the savage beasts,
381
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,273
the way we were depicted
in the press at that time.
382
00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:23,350
- Most artists waited to see
what was their opportunity.
383
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:24,970
Where could they show their work?
384
00:21:24,970 --> 00:21:26,210
Where could they sell the work?
385
00:21:26,210 --> 00:21:27,820
Who was there to see the work
386
00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:29,190
and considered to be interesting?
387
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:32,163
So there was a lot of waiting
around, unfortunately.
388
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,440
Keith was never like that.
389
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,943
Immediately he set to work.
390
00:21:35,943 --> 00:21:37,130
Wherever he had his own programs
391
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:38,450
of things he'd be doing.
392
00:21:38,450 --> 00:21:41,310
In fact, rather than the
artists, or Keith Haring,
393
00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:43,910
or anybody else bugging Wanda over this,
394
00:21:44,831 --> 00:21:47,200
wanted to show his work to me.
395
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,200
I had to ask him time and time again
396
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,000
curiously, what was it that he was doing?
397
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,410
Keith had a lot of different jobs.
398
00:21:55,410 --> 00:21:57,440
Oh yeah, he was busboy down at Seteria,
399
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,290
he worked for Mr.
Shafrazi, cleaning glasses.
400
00:22:02,290 --> 00:22:04,670
We worked in nightclubs as well.
401
00:22:04,670 --> 00:22:07,380
We all got jobs in the nightclub,
402
00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:08,863
the Mud Club, and Club 57,
403
00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:13,440
doorman, bartending, go-go dancing.
404
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,170
Keith was very connected
405
00:22:51,170 --> 00:22:52,810
and was a big part of a little club
406
00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:56,470
called Club 57 on 57 St. Mark's Place,
407
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:58,870
and Keith would put
together little group shows
408
00:22:58,870 --> 00:23:01,130
and stuff for all the friends.
409
00:23:01,130 --> 00:23:02,380
When I was in the East Village,
410
00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:04,462
I was friends with lots
and lots of artists
411
00:23:04,462 --> 00:23:05,909
because I used to organize shows.
412
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:07,942
At this club called Club 57
413
00:23:07,942 --> 00:23:09,580
for 100 artists at a time.
414
00:23:09,580 --> 00:23:12,470
- Actually, I had the
first art show at Club 57.
415
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:15,541
It was called Celebration
of the Space Age.
416
00:23:21,651 --> 00:23:24,046
And I got this job as the style editor
417
00:23:24,046 --> 00:23:24,930
of the Soho News.
418
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:28,280
It was kind of a radical downtown weekly.
419
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,960
So I was kind of always
looking for stories
420
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,710
and what was new and happening.
421
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:36,480
But I used to go to the
Mud Club every night,
422
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,540
but someone told me about Club 57,
423
00:23:38,540 --> 00:23:40,550
so I checked it out
424
00:23:40,550 --> 00:23:42,110
and it blew my mind.
425
00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:43,490
Mud Club was more serious.
426
00:23:43,490 --> 00:23:45,360
Actually, it was different drugs,
427
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,140
because Mud Club was very more heroin,
428
00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:49,720
so everybody was all more depressed,
429
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,390
and more down, like that.
430
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:54,260
And Club 57 everyone was drunk
431
00:23:54,260 --> 00:23:56,168
and doing whatever.
432
00:23:56,168 --> 00:23:58,990
It was more like a ridiculous crowd.
433
00:23:58,990 --> 00:24:00,470
It was like our clubhouse.
434
00:24:00,470 --> 00:24:03,879
I was one of the, I was
the big mouth funny guy.
435
00:24:05,033 --> 00:24:06,849
- Three quarters of you
have slept with him.
436
00:24:09,545 --> 00:24:11,439
Again, this is John Sex.
437
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:26,780
This group of art students,
438
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:31,590
it was this very unusually
brilliant crowd of kids.
439
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:35,601
Ann Magnuson, Keith Haring, Kenny Scharf,
440
00:24:35,601 --> 00:24:38,520
Tseng Kwong Chi, John Sex,
441
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,073
and they had this huge
creative wild thing going on.
442
00:24:51,290 --> 00:24:53,230
Every night was a different theme.
443
00:24:53,230 --> 00:24:54,770
There was art shows, there was music,
444
00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:58,400
there was poetry, performance, movies.
445
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,040
And it was basically, it
really was a youth club
446
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,060
in a way I guess for avant garde
447
00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:08,843
bohemian East Village kids.
448
00:25:18,085 --> 00:25:19,390
I think we should do something
449
00:25:19,390 --> 00:25:21,650
about the goldfish in India.
450
00:25:21,650 --> 00:25:24,880
Sex was constant, everywhere.
451
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:25,860
With everybody.
452
00:25:25,860 --> 00:25:29,623
It was a rolling orgy, practically.
453
00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:33,150
I mean, some people were gay.
454
00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:35,630
Some people were bi.
455
00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:37,430
Was there anyone straight?
456
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:39,180
There was like two straight people.
457
00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:49,440
Drugs, sex, rock and roll.
458
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,360
We were young.
459
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,760
We were like 19, 20 years old,
460
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,060
and we were loose in the city,
461
00:25:56,060 --> 00:26:01,060
and we were just really
having a good time.
462
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:05,330
And the city was our playground.
463
00:26:05,330 --> 00:26:09,630
And everything was for us to taste
464
00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:11,680
whatever we wanted to taste.
465
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:12,570
We were free.
466
00:26:12,570 --> 00:26:13,450
This was Manhattan.
467
00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:15,653
You know, it was before AIDS.
468
00:26:16,515 --> 00:26:18,839
What is this preoccupation with the war?
469
00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:20,256
Who really cares?
470
00:26:21,315 --> 00:26:23,515
- It was the Reagan
era, so we just gave up.
471
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,393
Basically.
472
00:26:25,393 --> 00:26:27,690
- When Reagan started,
of course we all went
473
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:29,460
on a campaign against Reagan.
474
00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:32,870
- We were so shocked that
this could ever even happen,
475
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:37,400
that a right wing Republican actor
476
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,900
could become president,
477
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:40,600
it was just shocking to us.
478
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,280
It was a subculture.
479
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,360
We were like apolitical.
480
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,550
Anti-political.
481
00:26:46,550 --> 00:26:48,520
I mean, Keith was pissed off,
482
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,050
because Keith is, he had a
conscience, or something.
483
00:26:52,050 --> 00:26:53,010
I just wanted to have fun.
484
00:26:53,010 --> 00:26:54,830
He was pissed off.
485
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:57,720
So he did all the word
pieces about Reagan,
486
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:58,570
and the Pope.
487
00:26:58,570 --> 00:27:01,790
- He used to cut up the
New York Post things,
488
00:27:01,790 --> 00:27:04,810
playing with words, and
paste it all over the city.
489
00:27:04,810 --> 00:27:07,973
And also in a more direct neighborhood,
490
00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:11,610
politics was, all the East Village,
491
00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:13,740
they all used to wear, the queens,
492
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,690
the gay guys and stuff,
they used to wear the beard.
493
00:27:16,690 --> 00:27:18,790
And he made a whole movement,
494
00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:22,400
it was gay men against facial hair.
495
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,270
And he had the stencil, and he stenciled
496
00:27:24,270 --> 00:27:26,127
all over the city.
497
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,813
Well, that's politics.
498
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:31,600
So a sick society invented psychiatry
499
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,500
to defend itself against
the investigations
500
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:36,150
of certain visionaries
501
00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:40,620
whose faculties of
divination disturbed it.
502
00:27:40,620 --> 00:27:42,200
Infinite belongs to us.
503
00:27:56,020 --> 00:27:59,060
- Keith was living at
the time in a little room
504
00:27:59,060 --> 00:28:01,280
on 12th Street, and I was like, Keith,
505
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,670
you need to have some more space,
506
00:28:03,670 --> 00:28:05,800
so come up and share this loft with me.
507
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,650
That was the start of us being roommates.
508
00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:11,970
The loft was two stories, two floors,
509
00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:16,030
and Keith had one area upstairs,
510
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:18,080
and Kenny had another area.
511
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,630
And Keith's area was
absolutely immaculate.
512
00:28:21,630 --> 00:28:24,430
I mean, it was just genius.
513
00:28:24,430 --> 00:28:26,730
It was completely tidy.
514
00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:30,210
There was a little bed
rolled up in the corner.
515
00:28:30,210 --> 00:28:32,690
There was a little rack for magazines.
516
00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:36,290
And then there were two
perfectly positioned chairs,
517
00:28:36,290 --> 00:28:39,160
just exactly where you
would like them to be
518
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,020
so that when you went in
519
00:28:41,020 --> 00:28:43,640
you felt like sitting
down and talking to him.
520
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,360
Samantha was just a beautiful girl.
521
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,070
Sam and I were kind of a couple,
522
00:28:51,070 --> 00:28:54,602
and we love Keith, and so the three of us
523
00:28:54,602 --> 00:28:58,580
we would have breakfast together,
524
00:28:58,580 --> 00:29:00,450
we'd lie in bed together.
525
00:29:00,450 --> 00:29:04,730
Kenny's area was completely different.
526
00:29:04,730 --> 00:29:08,010
Kenny's area was complete chaos.
527
00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:10,910
Paint everywhere,
fluorescent paint everywhere,
528
00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:13,450
toys everywhere, things
glued to the walls,
529
00:29:13,450 --> 00:29:15,670
cigarette packets glued to the walls.
530
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:18,570
Everything was significant.
531
00:29:18,570 --> 00:29:23,570
But the division in
thinking was hysterical.
532
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,490
Anyway, it was really fantastic,
533
00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:27,580
them living together, actually.
534
00:29:27,580 --> 00:29:29,800
One of my early performance pieces
535
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,930
when I was at the School of Visual Arts
536
00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:34,640
was this videotape I did
537
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,140
which I also performed live a few times,
538
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:40,790
was called, it was a piece
dedicated to my father,
539
00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:43,060
and the whole thing was just me talking
540
00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:46,820
in Morse Code, interspersed
with me stopping
541
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:51,030
and explaining that my father used to like
542
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:53,400
the Morse Code, like da-da-da-da.
543
00:30:01,030 --> 00:30:03,610
My father, my father's into ham radio.
544
00:30:03,610 --> 00:30:07,270
My father, my father, always
used to, always used to tell me
545
00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:09,610
tell me, this, this is Morse Code.
546
00:30:09,610 --> 00:30:11,780
This, this is Morse Code he said.
547
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:14,487
He said this, this is Morse Code.
548
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:23,260
- We would call him
almost on a weekly basis,
549
00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:25,480
on a Sunday, just to see
how things were going.
550
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,940
He would tell us that he some work
551
00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:29,567
that he put in a show at Mud Club,
552
00:30:29,567 --> 00:30:32,296
and I guess he was
actually running the shows
553
00:30:32,296 --> 00:30:33,593
at Mud Club.
554
00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:35,930
Didn't make sense to us.
555
00:30:35,930 --> 00:30:37,859
Didn't understand what Mud Club was.
556
00:30:37,859 --> 00:30:40,159
Didn't understand what
these other clubs were.
557
00:30:42,188 --> 00:30:44,190
I liked seeing myself from the back.
558
00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,550
That was one of the first
things that amazed me.
559
00:30:46,550 --> 00:30:47,383
Because you never,
560
00:30:47,383 --> 00:30:48,320
- you have no idea--
- You never get
561
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:49,780
to see your back.
562
00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:52,381
You never get to see it.
563
00:30:52,381 --> 00:30:54,493
That is weird.
564
00:30:54,493 --> 00:30:56,370
- Okay, let's
get ready for supper!
565
00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:58,570
- When Keith was a student
at the School of Visual Arts,
566
00:30:58,570 --> 00:31:00,460
he had a couple of assignments
567
00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:04,160
that ended up being brought home.
568
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,280
He somehow managed to get the school
569
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,950
to lend him a video camera
570
00:31:07,950 --> 00:31:09,830
for what must have been a weekend
571
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:10,793
when he came home.
572
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,120
The thing I remember
about the video taping
573
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,670
was that he wanted me to sit in this chair
574
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:24,760
in our living room and
read a book backwards.
575
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,320
And I was supposed to be
very serious about it.
576
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,520
End the jump
577
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,080
one in earth
578
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,913
to went he so.
579
00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:38,623
Either there sun any have not did but ...
580
00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:44,540
I really don't even remember
581
00:31:44,540 --> 00:31:47,380
how the subway drawings first started.
582
00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:48,810
I remember when I started,
583
00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:50,730
but I don't really remember why,
584
00:31:50,730 --> 00:31:52,450
except that I had noticed
585
00:31:52,450 --> 00:31:53,910
one of the empty black panels,
586
00:31:53,910 --> 00:31:56,712
and it just seemed to be the perfect place
587
00:31:56,712 --> 00:31:57,960
to have a drawing.
588
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,130
So I went above ground,
bought a piece of chalk,
589
00:32:00,130 --> 00:32:01,577
and went back down and did it.
590
00:32:01,577 --> 00:32:04,039
Go on, get out of here!
591
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:05,706
I'm calling the cops!
592
00:32:05,706 --> 00:32:08,016
Give me a break.
593
00:32:08,016 --> 00:32:10,507
Drawing in the subway
always had a kind of element
594
00:32:10,507 --> 00:32:14,540
of fear of the unknown,
because you always had to be
595
00:32:14,540 --> 00:32:18,140
prepared to get arrested, to get caught,
596
00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:19,596
and getting locked up for a few hours.
597
00:32:19,596 --> 00:32:20,562
You can see him, but I'll hold on
598
00:32:20,562 --> 00:32:21,865
and I'll get back to you.
599
00:32:21,865 --> 00:32:24,733
- You're under arrest
for graffitiing the subway.
600
00:32:24,733 --> 00:32:27,272
Get this on film.
601
00:32:27,272 --> 00:32:30,110
You actually locking him up?
602
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:31,590
It didn't happen that often.
603
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:33,187
Most times cops would
just give you a ticket
604
00:32:33,187 --> 00:32:34,020
and let you go.
605
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:37,060
But there was always that edge to it,
606
00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:40,790
because you never know which kind of cop
607
00:32:40,790 --> 00:32:41,897
is gonna catch you.
608
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:48,610
The reason to keep doing it was
609
00:32:48,610 --> 00:32:51,780
that you were immediately
seeing the effect
610
00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:53,972
of what you were doing,
and you were immediately
611
00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:57,970
seeing the power of this thing
612
00:32:57,970 --> 00:33:00,540
to communicate and to
actually touch people
613
00:33:00,540 --> 00:33:02,310
and stop them in their tracks, et cetera.
614
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:04,170
The main thing with him was that
615
00:33:04,170 --> 00:33:08,280
his animated motion took
him straight from bed
616
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,250
shower in the morning into the street
617
00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:12,400
and the street became a place to work,
618
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,010
and the street led to the subways,
619
00:33:14,010 --> 00:33:16,080
to the place of transportation.
620
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,430
So the world of active
population of people moving
621
00:33:20,430 --> 00:33:23,570
was a ready-made audience,
ready-made museum for him,
622
00:33:23,570 --> 00:33:24,860
and for him it was very important
623
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:27,160
because he realized he knew that 80, 90%
624
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,370
of these people never went to a museum.
625
00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:31,420
So he wanted to bring the museum to them.
626
00:33:34,077 --> 00:33:37,110
Who are you doing it for?
627
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:38,710
For everybody, I guess.
628
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:39,900
I don't get paid to do it,
629
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,663
but I do it down here so
lots of people can see it.
630
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:45,700
Here, you want a button?
631
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:47,411
This is my signature.
632
00:33:47,411 --> 00:33:48,269
Okay.
633
00:33:48,269 --> 00:33:49,102
Thank you.
634
00:33:49,102 --> 00:33:50,730
- I've got letters
and stories from people
635
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:54,970
of specific times when
they came upon a drawing
636
00:33:54,970 --> 00:33:57,780
and it filled this gap that
was waiting to be filled.
637
00:33:57,780 --> 00:34:00,740
It made something make sense
638
00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:02,450
it made it a moment for them
639
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:04,270
which will stay in their memory forever.
640
00:34:04,270 --> 00:34:06,170
That's what all art is supposed to do.
641
00:34:08,947 --> 00:34:12,200
- He was so sophisticated that
he could actually be simple
642
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,670
and appeal to children
and people who were not
643
00:34:15,670 --> 00:34:17,720
in the art world, as
well as intellectuals.
644
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:20,410
- There were so many
other things happening
645
00:34:20,410 --> 00:34:23,750
in the art world and in the streets,
646
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:26,650
everything happening
exactly at this one point
647
00:34:26,650 --> 00:34:29,290
that I was becoming so active
648
00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:30,370
in all these other things
649
00:34:30,370 --> 00:34:33,340
that the Fine Arts
chairman eventually just,
650
00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:35,050
when I came back to
enroll for the third year
651
00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:37,520
to pick classes she told me that
652
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,510
maybe there was nothing else
that they could do for me
653
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:41,590
because they couldn't give me credit
654
00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:43,610
for all these other projects I was doing,
655
00:34:43,610 --> 00:34:46,000
and she said maybe you should just,
656
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,160
maybe you should try to be an artist
657
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,320
instead of a student.
658
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,301
So at that I was like oh
yeah, what a great idea.
659
00:35:03,350 --> 00:35:05,820
- I introduced Keith to Jean-Michel.
660
00:35:05,820 --> 00:35:08,040
I guess we became kind of known
661
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,600
as the three, I wouldn't say Musketeers,
662
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,900
but we were, each one had our own identity
663
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:17,850
of different from each other,
664
00:35:17,850 --> 00:35:20,600
but very street-oriented,
665
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,880
and with a strong, kind of a competition.
666
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,210
A healthy competition.
667
00:35:25,210 --> 00:35:30,210
Keith and Jean-Michel took
off earlier than I did.
668
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,516
In the beginning, when I started,
669
00:35:32,516 --> 00:35:34,240
when I first started selling work,
670
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:37,050
I was determined to not be with a gallery
671
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:39,610
and to learn everything myself.
672
00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:41,450
And I started selling things
673
00:35:41,450 --> 00:35:43,450
myself out of my studio.
674
00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:44,283
And after about two months,
675
00:35:44,283 --> 00:35:46,904
I decided I never, ever
wanted to see the person
676
00:35:46,904 --> 00:35:47,737
who was my graffiti again
677
00:35:47,737 --> 00:35:49,120
because it drove me crazy.
678
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,340
It was taking off.
679
00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:55,780
People were coming over
our shared space everyday.
680
00:35:55,780 --> 00:35:57,613
And basically I remember oh my god
681
00:35:57,613 --> 00:36:00,710
this is great, Keith is
bringing all these people in.
682
00:36:00,710 --> 00:36:02,720
They're gonna see my art, too.
683
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,520
So I had all my things all over the wall.
684
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,140
And I just, I'll never forget,
685
00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:08,880
they would walk past my
art like it wasn't there.
686
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,200
And I was just like, but wait a second!
687
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,590
What about me?
688
00:36:12,590 --> 00:36:14,070
And it was really hard.
689
00:36:14,070 --> 00:36:17,060
And I remember Keith
felt a little bit bad.
690
00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:17,950
He called me up and he's like
691
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:19,710
I got this show at Shafrazi.
692
00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:21,144
I'm like, you did?
693
00:36:32,238 --> 00:36:33,492
We stood out.
694
00:36:33,492 --> 00:36:34,430
People could always tell.
695
00:36:34,430 --> 00:36:36,420
Oh, you must be Keith's family.
696
00:36:36,420 --> 00:36:37,500
You're the only people here
697
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:39,360
who aren't dressed completely in black,
698
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,570
or who don't have pink hair.
699
00:36:41,570 --> 00:36:44,313
And we went up, and we were very proud,
700
00:36:46,870 --> 00:36:51,360
and then he still didn't
sell anything at first.
701
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,893
And then he started making some things
702
00:36:52,893 --> 00:36:56,710
that were more, that people
could put in their homes.
703
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:58,290
There were people who were gonna pay
704
00:36:58,290 --> 00:37:01,020
what to us were unbelievable sums of money
705
00:37:01,020 --> 00:37:03,320
for his work, even in those early days.
706
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,730
To go from being a bicycle messenger
707
00:37:06,730 --> 00:37:10,480
to be selling a painting for $10,000
708
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,340
seemed like this extraordinary
amount of success.
709
00:37:14,340 --> 00:37:16,490
One time I went to his studio
710
00:37:16,490 --> 00:37:20,710
and he said do you want some money?
711
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:22,150
And I said why?
712
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:23,640
And he's like here!
713
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,440
He had like hundreds of dollars in cash.
714
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,952
And we were like what, did you rob a bank?
715
00:37:28,952 --> 00:37:31,750
And he said no, this lady came here
716
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:33,060
and she wanted to buy everything,
717
00:37:33,060 --> 00:37:34,190
and I didn't have anything to buy,
718
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:35,850
and she saw all those
things in the garbage,
719
00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:37,486
and so I sold it,
720
00:37:37,486 --> 00:37:39,310
and say I want this, but this
I'm throwing in the garbage.
721
00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:41,130
I don't care, I'll buy it.
722
00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:45,470
- As soon as money was
introduced into the picture,
723
00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:46,900
it changed everything.
724
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,230
All of a sudden, everybody was like
725
00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:50,860
oh, we have to make money.
726
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:52,230
We have to compete.
727
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:53,580
It changed the whole thing,
728
00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:57,130
that before that, it was
art was only for art,
729
00:37:57,130 --> 00:37:58,610
and it was all for each other,
730
00:37:58,610 --> 00:38:00,240
we were performing and doing everything
731
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,890
for each other, and
working off each other.
732
00:38:02,890 --> 00:38:05,120
And then all of a sudden
the outside world came in
733
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,400
with all the money.
734
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,900
What happened was a lot of people
735
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:12,330
including me, was like oh shit,
736
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:15,433
I need to, I'm gonna be left behind.
737
00:38:21,150 --> 00:38:22,760
I needed to find somebody to move in,
738
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,010
so Keith moved in.
739
00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:25,960
We shared a flat for a couple of years.
740
00:38:28,060 --> 00:38:31,670
- During this time,
again I continued having
741
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:34,100
searching for something and someone
742
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:37,030
and becoming very
frustrated that I don't have
743
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:40,087
a lover by this point, and
I really at this point,
744
00:38:40,087 --> 00:38:43,320
I'm really tired of only doing the baths.
745
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,660
And so I finally meet Juan Dubose.
746
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:49,410
I run into him, and have great sex,
747
00:38:49,410 --> 00:38:52,860
and just decide that this is probably
748
00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:54,120
the right person to me.
749
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:55,970
He's black, he's really thin.
750
00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:57,240
He's the same height as me.
751
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,180
His dick is the same size as me.
752
00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:01,090
He's almost the same age as me.
753
00:39:01,090 --> 00:39:02,750
He'd been out,
754
00:39:02,750 --> 00:39:06,840
and he had met Juan at
a club or something,
755
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,590
and he was waiting for Juan to call,
756
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:12,090
and there he was, he was
sitting on one of the chairs,
757
00:39:12,090 --> 00:39:14,110
and the room was absolutely immaculate,
758
00:39:14,110 --> 00:39:16,650
and in front of the chair on the floor
759
00:39:16,650 --> 00:39:18,170
was the telephone.
760
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:20,940
And I came in, and I was very, very quiet,
761
00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:21,800
and I thought what's going on,
762
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,030
because normally it was music and stuff.
763
00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:26,620
I went in and I said what are you doing?
764
00:39:26,620 --> 00:39:29,820
And he said I'm just
waiting for a phone call.
765
00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:32,850
And then, he waited and
he waited and he waited.
766
00:39:32,850 --> 00:39:35,680
And I think it took Juan two days to ring,
767
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,600
and then finally the phone rang.
768
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,433
And it was Juan.
769
00:39:38,433 --> 00:39:42,888
And he was a great love.
770
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:11,470
- Keith became an instant
star within the first year.
771
00:40:11,470 --> 00:40:13,180
By '82, we went to Japan,
772
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:15,180
they were lining up to come to see him.
773
00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:17,292
It was like the Beatles had arrived.
774
00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:59,770
- What are
some of the other countries
775
00:40:59,770 --> 00:41:01,370
that you have done some work in?
776
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:04,850
All over the world, really.
777
00:41:04,850 --> 00:41:08,640
Germany, France, London.
778
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:09,683
South America.
779
00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:12,613
Japan.
780
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:15,283
Holland.
781
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:17,703
Spain.
782
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,557
And around the United States.
783
00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:36,810
- I'm Brazilian, so first
Kenny came to Brazil,
784
00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:38,680
and that's how he met his wife.
785
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,240
We were on the plane together
786
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:41,360
going to Carnival.
787
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,750
I get back from my trip to Brazil
788
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:46,360
and I announce hey everybody
789
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,864
I'm having a baby!
790
00:41:47,864 --> 00:41:49,820
And they were like, you crazy?
791
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:52,317
And I mean, I was crazy a little bit.
792
00:41:52,317 --> 00:41:54,870
I thought, hey I'm 24 years old.
793
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:56,430
I'm a grown man.
794
00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:57,813
I was a kid.
795
00:42:04,370 --> 00:42:06,494
I think there's a lot of things
796
00:42:06,494 --> 00:42:09,980
about art that have a
lot to do with healing
797
00:42:09,980 --> 00:42:12,140
that a lot of people haven't really
798
00:42:12,140 --> 00:42:16,130
scientifically explored,
but I think it's definitely
799
00:42:16,130 --> 00:42:18,260
helpful for children to be around art,
800
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:21,140
especially when they're
around a hospital situation
801
00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:23,590
so they feel more comfortable
about being there,
802
00:42:23,590 --> 00:42:25,763
but also just thinking positive,
803
00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:30,420
about everything, it's a part of healing
804
00:42:30,420 --> 00:42:31,860
and feeling better.
805
00:42:31,860 --> 00:42:33,740
He always wanted children,
806
00:42:33,740 --> 00:42:34,880
and he loved children.
807
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,150
And I remember him saying please,
808
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:39,430
please have a baby with me.
809
00:42:39,430 --> 00:42:43,110
And I was just sort of
like you must be joking.
810
00:42:43,110 --> 00:42:48,110
I felt, in a way, that my having Zenna
811
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,660
was a little bit of a gift to Keith
812
00:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,720
because I don't know
if I thought it so much
813
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:56,740
consciously, but maybe unconscious,
814
00:42:56,740 --> 00:43:00,910
subconsciously, I thought
this is gonna help
815
00:43:00,910 --> 00:43:04,980
our family, and Keith became a godfather.
816
00:43:04,980 --> 00:43:07,808
And Keith was really wonderful to her.
817
00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:45,380
When I was drawing in the subway
818
00:43:45,380 --> 00:43:47,420
sometimes you'd do 30 drawings
819
00:43:47,420 --> 00:43:49,240
in a manner of three hours or something.
820
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:50,990
So I didn't want to keep doing
821
00:43:50,990 --> 00:43:51,823
the same thing over and over,
822
00:43:51,823 --> 00:43:53,810
so you'd invent something on the spot.
823
00:43:53,810 --> 00:43:56,000
I mean, that's one
reason why I really like
824
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,210
working with children
more than anything else,
825
00:43:58,210 --> 00:44:00,890
because they still
really have that freedom
826
00:44:00,890 --> 00:44:03,815
and that imagination to just do it.
827
00:44:51,420 --> 00:44:53,480
- I suppose even just from
the time I was a little kid
828
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,200
I had this tremendous guilt
829
00:44:56,244 --> 00:44:59,450
from learning all the things
830
00:44:59,450 --> 00:45:00,930
that white people had done.
831
00:45:00,930 --> 00:45:03,010
The more I learned, the more
I learned about everything,
832
00:45:03,010 --> 00:45:06,160
from whether it was what
they did during World War Two
833
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,230
to Japanese people in California,
834
00:45:09,230 --> 00:45:11,570
putting them in camps, to
what they did to Indians,
835
00:45:11,570 --> 00:45:13,920
to the whole civil rights movement.
836
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,010
I felt a much closer affinity
837
00:45:17,010 --> 00:45:20,370
to culture and people of color
838
00:45:20,370 --> 00:45:23,983
than I did to white culture.
839
00:45:26,770 --> 00:45:28,610
Who I was in the 80s
840
00:45:28,610 --> 00:45:32,060
was Donald Mattern, which
was my original name.
841
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:35,483
And I had changed it
when I started deejaying.
842
00:45:37,140 --> 00:45:40,240
It came about, I just wanted
to give up my identity
843
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,240
from coming from Lancaster Pennsylvania.
844
00:45:43,734 --> 00:45:46,510
So I changed it to Junior Vasquez.
845
00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:48,990
Keith told me that he never
really felt white inside.
846
00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:51,503
I never felt I was anything
else on the inside.
847
00:45:59,430 --> 00:46:00,770
I did an evening at the Kitchen
848
00:46:00,770 --> 00:46:03,050
which was an evening of collaborations.
849
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:06,530
And the idea was to
collaborate with people,
850
00:46:06,530 --> 00:46:09,340
with dancers, musicians, and artists.
851
00:46:09,340 --> 00:46:11,320
And Keith was that artist.
852
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:12,880
Keith and I did a piece which was called
853
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,870
I believe Long Distance.
854
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:16,210
No music.
855
00:46:16,210 --> 00:46:17,914
Just the sound of his brush,
856
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,550
He understood when I said
857
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:25,570
I think it should just be my body,
858
00:46:25,570 --> 00:46:28,720
its rhythms, and your brush strokes.
859
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:30,690
And I think he liked the idea.
860
00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:33,770
It was something virtuosic and beautiful
861
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:36,350
and musical in the way
in which he did paint,
862
00:46:36,350 --> 00:46:39,900
and that was something
that we'd both exploited
863
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:41,300
in that moment.
864
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:42,633
Long Distance.
865
00:46:57,962 --> 00:47:00,212
- At the time that I
started working for him,
866
00:47:01,283 --> 00:47:05,120
he was really interested and involved
867
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,810
with the hiphop scene,
868
00:47:07,810 --> 00:47:11,910
and he was at that time seeing quite a bit
869
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:13,300
of his friend Madonna.
870
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:16,700
He hung around with Grace Jones.
871
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:19,760
He also stayed close to his friends
872
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,334
from his earlier days
in New York from SVA,
873
00:47:24,334 --> 00:47:27,680
Tseng Kwong Chi, Kenny
Scharf, Tony Shafrazi
874
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,480
through the gallery was around a lot.
875
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,110
Keith was traveling a lot of the time
876
00:47:35,110 --> 00:47:37,240
but he would make sure to take the plane
877
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,600
and arrive on Friday night
878
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,233
to be at the weekend
for the Paradise Garage.
879
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:49,330
Music was phenomenal.
880
00:47:49,330 --> 00:47:51,881
The music, Larry Levan, was the person
881
00:47:51,881 --> 00:47:52,890
that was deejaying there
882
00:47:52,890 --> 00:47:55,032
and was a kind of god.
883
00:47:56,493 --> 00:47:58,334
I've never been the same
884
00:47:58,334 --> 00:48:00,672
since entering that
club for the first time.
885
00:48:00,672 --> 00:48:02,250
You see the Paradise Garage
886
00:48:02,250 --> 00:48:04,830
originally opened as a gay club.
887
00:48:04,830 --> 00:48:07,820
I had some friends that I
grew up with in Brooklyn
888
00:48:07,820 --> 00:48:12,820
that were not gay that had
started to go to this club,
889
00:48:12,847 --> 00:48:15,200
and I was like man, isn't that a gay club?
890
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,790
And they said well no,
Friday night is really mixed.
891
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:20,850
There's gay people, but
there's straight people,
892
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:23,240
and there's really hot girls.
893
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,850
And if the girls see that
you're not homophobic,
894
00:48:26,850 --> 00:48:28,270
then that's cool.
895
00:48:28,270 --> 00:48:30,390
- Keith was much more
interested in my boyfriend,
896
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:32,140
Javier, this very
beautiful Puerto Rican boy,
897
00:48:32,140 --> 00:48:33,400
than he was in me.
898
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,510
And he made it really clear that he wanted
899
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:38,130
to get to know Javier,
900
00:48:38,130 --> 00:48:40,980
and really was kind of rude to me.
901
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,230
Putting his back right in my face,
902
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:44,820
and just talking to Javier,
903
00:48:44,820 --> 00:48:46,063
and I was fine.
904
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:53,080
- The sound system, you
would hear from when you got
905
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,640
on the block, you would
hear this deep base,
906
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,400
like it was amazing, because
nothing, nothing, nothing
907
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,210
sounded anything like
the Garage sound system,
908
00:49:04,210 --> 00:49:05,820
then or now.
909
00:49:05,820 --> 00:49:08,293
- I had started going
to the Paradise Garage.
910
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:11,200
And that's where I had met Adolpho
911
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,870
which was Keith's assistant at the time.
912
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:16,410
Paradise Garage, Larry Levan,
913
00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:19,623
and Keith Haring, it was a threesome.
914
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:23,743
Because the place reeked of Keith Haring.
915
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,930
His art was all over the place
916
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:28,640
for almost the whole time it was open.
917
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,750
It was just that whole blend of the music,
918
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:33,440
and Keith, what he did,
919
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,960
and what that had created,
920
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,960
and that Keith was the forefront
921
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,113
of our culture at that time.
922
00:49:41,225 --> 00:49:42,100
And I was at many parties
923
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:43,330
and things with Keith,
924
00:49:43,330 --> 00:49:45,238
and I was friends with friends of his,
925
00:49:45,238 --> 00:49:48,860
Martin Burgoyne, who had
been Madonna's roommate,
926
00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:50,090
who had died of AIDS.
927
00:49:50,090 --> 00:49:51,110
I was best friends with Martin,
928
00:49:51,110 --> 00:49:52,770
Martin was best friends with Keith.
929
00:49:52,770 --> 00:49:55,200
So again, it was a very small group,
930
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,800
a very small scene.
931
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,020
I was on the outskirts,
because I was younger than them
932
00:49:59,020 --> 00:50:01,060
and just coming up as a photographer.
933
00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:04,043
His own birthday, which is May 4th,
934
00:50:05,550 --> 00:50:08,600
was the occasion for him to throw
935
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,360
an enormous party at whatever at the time
936
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,070
was his most favorite nightclub.
937
00:50:15,070 --> 00:50:18,060
He decided that he would name this party,
938
00:50:18,060 --> 00:50:20,260
he would actually call
it the Party of Life.
939
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,970
- One night we went to
the Paradise Garage,
940
00:50:52,970 --> 00:50:57,560
and it was the first night that
Madonna appeared in public.
941
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,980
Who was this girl?
942
00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:02,248
And I turned to Arnie, and I said
943
00:51:02,248 --> 00:51:04,130
what's the big deal?
944
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:06,770
And Keith said Andy said she's gonna be
945
00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:08,410
the biggest thing ever.
946
00:51:08,410 --> 00:51:09,960
You see.
947
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,430
And I said oh right, right, right.
948
00:51:23,290 --> 00:51:24,840
I mean, I make lots of things
949
00:51:25,743 --> 00:51:28,980
that are permanent, or
semipermanent materials,
950
00:51:28,980 --> 00:51:33,833
usually paper, or metal
and plastic, wood, vinyl.
951
00:51:36,670 --> 00:51:38,600
But I like the idea of things
952
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,413
lasting longer than you last.
953
00:51:41,470 --> 00:51:44,720
Being somewhere where lots of people
954
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,070
can see it for a long time.
955
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:51,110
I encouraged him to address the idea
956
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:53,310
of how could he make
something more permanent
957
00:51:53,310 --> 00:51:55,990
with paintings, and
thereafter that followed
958
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:57,938
so he came up with the solution
959
00:51:57,938 --> 00:51:59,480
of painting on tarps.
960
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,800
And he purposely chose tarps,
961
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,120
which are industrial things,
962
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,170
which are used in the back of trucks,
963
00:52:04,170 --> 00:52:05,750
with the holes and the grommets,
964
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:08,043
so that they hold down
so that all the goods
965
00:52:08,043 --> 00:52:09,680
they were carrying across borders
966
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,090
and traveling again, very
much it would travel.
967
00:52:12,090 --> 00:52:13,220
It's something very important,
968
00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:14,680
even Jack Kerouac talks about it.
969
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,769
Very important, that idea
of nomadic life of travel.
970
00:53:01,090 --> 00:53:06,090
- Keith had an interest
in celebrities, certainly,
971
00:53:06,690 --> 00:53:10,940
and I guess in some ways
even in his own fame
972
00:53:10,940 --> 00:53:13,660
or the hope that he would eventually be
973
00:53:13,660 --> 00:53:16,820
a well-known person, the
phone calls that we would get
974
00:53:16,820 --> 00:53:21,250
from New York would be slowly peppered
975
00:53:21,250 --> 00:53:25,650
with more and more references
to people he had met.
976
00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:28,120
He started throwing some names around
977
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:29,933
about meeting certain people.
978
00:53:31,411 --> 00:53:34,750
And in fact, I think when he first said
979
00:53:34,750 --> 00:53:37,483
that he met Andy Warhol,
980
00:53:38,370 --> 00:53:40,536
I had to ask my wife, who's Andy Warhol?
981
00:53:41,730 --> 00:53:44,550
Well, Andy was our hero.
982
00:53:44,550 --> 00:53:48,290
He was the whole reason
why we moved to New York.
983
00:53:48,290 --> 00:53:49,190
He was just everything.
984
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:53,890
He was like god, king, you know?
985
00:53:53,890 --> 00:53:55,470
I mean, the first time I had seen Andy,
986
00:53:55,470 --> 00:53:56,890
the very first time I saw him,
987
00:53:56,890 --> 00:53:59,240
probably was sitting in a coffee shop
988
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,400
near the museum out on 53rd Street,
989
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,940
and I was, I wanted to
go in and say something,
990
00:54:05,940 --> 00:54:07,759
but I had no idea what to do,
991
00:54:07,759 --> 00:54:09,130
and sort of just walked back and forth
992
00:54:09,130 --> 00:54:11,833
in front of the coffee shop several times
993
00:54:11,833 --> 00:54:13,933
and decided that was ridiculous, and left.
994
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:16,889
- Hi.
- Oh hi.
995
00:54:16,889 --> 00:54:18,030
How are you?
996
00:54:18,030 --> 00:54:20,700
He really was our inspiration.
997
00:54:20,700 --> 00:54:23,340
And he opened up so many doors
998
00:54:23,340 --> 00:54:26,870
as far as ways of thinking about art,
999
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:31,120
and ways of how art can be different
1000
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,863
than just something on
a wall in a gallery.
1001
00:54:36,010 --> 00:54:37,630
The first time I met Keith
1002
00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:41,190
was when Andy Warhol brought Keith Haring
1003
00:54:41,190 --> 00:54:45,810
to my apartment, because we were having
1004
00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:48,693
Sean's birthday, Sean, my son's birthday.
1005
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,290
And Keith was carrying this big painting,
1006
00:54:53,290 --> 00:54:55,760
it was still wet, you know?
1007
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,570
And it was for Sean.
1008
00:54:57,570 --> 00:55:00,050
And it had a face,
1009
00:55:00,050 --> 00:55:03,040
and a number, nine, to it.
1010
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,630
Andy Warhol came to the exhibition
1011
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:07,030
of Keith Haring that we had in 1982,
1012
00:55:07,030 --> 00:55:08,030
at Mercy Street.
1013
00:55:08,030 --> 00:55:10,610
Warhol would rarely be seen in the gallery
1014
00:55:10,610 --> 00:55:12,880
in an opening, but in this case,
1015
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,440
not only did he come, but he was riveted.
1016
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,700
And he became very close
friends with Keith.
1017
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:18,970
They were very good friends.
1018
00:55:18,970 --> 00:55:22,300
I think it was very important relationship
1019
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:23,470
that Keith had with him.
1020
00:55:23,470 --> 00:55:26,500
They gossiped, they talked almost daily.
1021
00:55:26,500 --> 00:55:28,297
So what did you do last night?
1022
00:55:28,297 --> 00:55:29,797
- They'd get on the phone
at the end of the night
1023
00:55:29,797 --> 00:55:32,290
and they'd talk like
a bunch of old ladies.
1024
00:55:32,290 --> 00:55:34,050
It was just like the way they did it.
1025
00:55:34,050 --> 00:55:35,370
And in a way they were
1026
00:55:35,370 --> 00:55:38,778
these two little art world old ladies.
1027
00:55:38,778 --> 00:55:43,340
- Andy envied this enthusiasm
that these kids had.
1028
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:45,230
He envied the energy that they had.
1029
00:55:45,230 --> 00:55:46,830
In a way, he saw it as an extension
1030
00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:48,290
of what he was after,
1031
00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:50,220
and one aspect of what he was doing.
1032
00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:52,150
In fact, when Madonna
got married, for example,
1033
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:55,550
to Sean Penn, it was Keith
Haring who was invited,
1034
00:55:55,550 --> 00:55:57,933
and Keith took as his date Andy Warhol.
1035
00:55:59,010 --> 00:56:00,990
So Andy wasn't invited.
1036
00:56:00,990 --> 00:56:02,540
And Andy liked that idea a lot.
1037
00:56:02,540 --> 00:56:06,360
We used to call him Papa Pop.
1038
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,990
He was definitely a father figure.
1039
00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:11,150
Andy Warhol's work
1040
00:56:11,150 --> 00:56:13,380
was creating something
1041
00:56:13,380 --> 00:56:15,470
in a meaningful tradition,
1042
00:56:15,470 --> 00:56:17,240
but it was meaningless in a way.
1043
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:20,180
And he liked the meaninglessness.
1044
00:56:20,180 --> 00:56:24,251
And Keith was creating something
1045
00:56:24,251 --> 00:56:27,970
that was looking like meaningless,
1046
00:56:27,970 --> 00:56:29,690
but actually was meaningful.
1047
00:56:29,690 --> 00:56:34,620
Andy Warhol took normal things
1048
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:36,330
and made them into art.
1049
00:56:36,330 --> 00:56:38,730
But he wanted to do the opposite.
1050
00:56:38,730 --> 00:56:41,950
He wanted to make art normal,
1051
00:56:41,950 --> 00:56:44,928
to integrate it, to take it out
1052
00:56:44,928 --> 00:56:49,928
of this special kind of label.
1053
00:57:42,181 --> 00:57:44,010
In '85 I painted Grace
1054
00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:46,170
for two live performances at the Garage,
1055
00:57:46,170 --> 00:57:48,340
which is the second and third time
1056
00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:49,340
which I painted her.
1057
00:58:09,357 --> 00:58:11,940
And now ladies and gentlemen,
1058
00:58:14,624 --> 00:58:15,707
here's Grace!
1059
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:25,620
- The strain on the
relationship with Juan Dubose
1060
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,500
reached a maximum in '85.
1061
00:58:28,500 --> 00:58:30,520
In the beginning of 1986
1062
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:35,167
I meet Juan Rivera at
Paradise Garage one night,
1063
00:58:35,167 --> 00:58:38,080
and I see this incredibly beautiful boy
1064
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,760
who I think is the man of my dreams,
1065
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,327
and I'm convinced that if he looks at me
1066
00:58:44,327 --> 00:58:46,713
and he talks to me that
that is gonna be it,
1067
00:58:47,574 --> 00:58:49,787
and I meet him, and within a week
1068
00:58:49,787 --> 00:58:51,710
he's staying at the studio all the time,
1069
00:58:51,710 --> 00:58:53,540
and within two weeks, I'm inviting him
1070
00:58:53,540 --> 00:58:57,860
to come with me to Brazil
where I'm going for a month.
1071
00:58:57,860 --> 00:59:01,720
Juan was the new love.
1072
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,300
And then there was another
beautiful Puerto Rican man
1073
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:07,040
whose name was Juan Dubose.
1074
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,400
Keith separated, and the
other one is now the prince.
1075
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,730
He's everywhere.
1076
00:59:11,730 --> 00:59:13,500
I think my parents have been pretty open
1077
00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:17,464
with the whole, you know,
they may not have liked it,
1078
00:59:17,464 --> 00:59:19,540
but I think they accepted it well.
1079
00:59:19,540 --> 00:59:21,860
We didn't either know or want to accept
1080
00:59:21,860 --> 00:59:22,981
that they were boyfriends.
1081
00:59:22,981 --> 00:59:27,463
We called them bodyguards,
or just friends.
1082
00:59:29,090 --> 00:59:34,090
- My family knew Keith's longer
term companions very well.
1083
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:36,000
They were implicitly accepted.
1084
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,750
There was not a lot of
discussion about this.
1085
00:59:38,750 --> 00:59:41,300
Some of them just by personality
1086
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:43,270
didn't really integrate into our family
1087
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:44,370
quite as closely,
1088
00:59:44,370 --> 00:59:47,010
but others really became
close with my family
1089
00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:48,340
to the point where my mother
1090
00:59:48,340 --> 00:59:52,650
was making Keith's boyfriend
scarves at Christmas.
1091
00:59:52,650 --> 00:59:54,300
At the very beginning he described him
1092
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:55,950
as his bodyguard, which I thought
1093
00:59:55,950 --> 00:59:57,150
was really kind of cute in a way.
1094
00:59:57,150 --> 00:59:58,890
Of course this is at a time when,
1095
00:59:58,890 --> 01:00:02,598
the early 80s was, it's
not like the present,
1096
01:00:02,598 --> 01:00:06,230
this isn't on the cover of
magazines like it is today.
1097
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:08,140
Hollywood wasn't dealing with it.
1098
01:00:08,140 --> 01:00:10,623
There wasn't television
about this subject.
1099
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:12,620
This was something that was still
1100
01:00:12,620 --> 01:00:14,023
very much in the closet.
1101
01:00:16,090 --> 01:00:19,990
My parents are pretty conservative
1102
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:22,313
politically and socially.
1103
01:00:23,210 --> 01:00:26,590
But for them, that has always extended
1104
01:00:26,590 --> 01:00:30,210
to people have the right
to do what they want
1105
01:00:30,210 --> 01:00:32,250
as long as they're not
hurting other people.
1106
01:00:32,250 --> 01:00:36,283
- I would try to, like around
relationships and so on,
1107
01:00:36,283 --> 01:00:40,840
I would try to pull him
into adult conversation
1108
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:42,810
about things.
1109
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:44,789
This was hard with him.
1110
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:48,060
Because his impulse, that was not impulse.
1111
01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:49,657
His impulse was to do the work
1112
01:00:49,657 --> 01:00:51,573
and to live the life.
1113
01:01:05,312 --> 01:01:08,150
- I've been approached
by a man from a museum
1114
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:11,080
in Berlin at the museum called
1115
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,130
the House at Checkpoint Charlie
1116
01:01:13,130 --> 01:01:15,010
which is a museum that's dedicated
1117
01:01:15,010 --> 01:01:16,720
to human rights issues.
1118
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,440
And he's asked me if I'm interested
1119
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:19,460
in painting the Berlin Wall,
1120
01:01:19,460 --> 01:01:21,920
which of course I'm
interested in painting.
1121
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,880
I'm painting this continuous
interlocking chain
1122
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,020
of human figures which are connected
1123
01:01:28,020 --> 01:01:29,150
at the hands and the feet,
1124
01:01:29,150 --> 01:01:32,270
and they're alternating
between red and black,
1125
01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:34,140
and yellow browns was the German colors,
1126
01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:36,610
and really about this, obviously, somehow,
1127
01:01:36,610 --> 01:01:38,750
about this unity of people,
1128
01:01:38,750 --> 01:01:40,370
and against the idea of the wall
1129
01:01:40,370 --> 01:01:41,920
which is separating the people.
1130
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:50,440
I started buying work from Tony
1131
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,030
and collecting Keith's work.
1132
01:01:52,030 --> 01:01:54,540
And I bought 30 pieces of Keith's,
1133
01:01:54,540 --> 01:01:57,340
and I just love it, because
it really reminds me
1134
01:01:57,340 --> 01:01:58,820
of a time of living in New York
1135
01:01:58,820 --> 01:02:00,100
and growing up.
1136
01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:01,970
It's a very optimistic time,
1137
01:02:01,970 --> 01:02:05,463
and everybody thought art
could change the world.
1138
01:02:05,463 --> 01:02:06,519
Hell no!
1139
01:02:06,519 --> 01:02:07,460
Hell no!
1140
01:02:07,460 --> 01:02:08,802
Hello no!
1141
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,750
There was a sense once Keith Haring
1142
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:32,310
got established in the art world
1143
01:02:32,310 --> 01:02:36,570
that he should change his methodology
1144
01:02:36,570 --> 01:02:39,640
and his approach to not just art making
1145
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,730
but to the institutions
and the market of art.
1146
01:02:42,730 --> 01:02:47,730
It's true that maybe the art community
1147
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,290
especially the establishment,
art establishment,
1148
01:02:52,290 --> 01:02:56,260
may not be that into Keith's work,
1149
01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:58,360
the reason being because he has done
1150
01:02:58,360 --> 01:02:59,560
so many works, probably.
1151
01:03:38,210 --> 01:03:39,260
Keith wasn't stupid.
1152
01:03:39,260 --> 01:03:40,860
He knew exactly what he was doing,
1153
01:03:40,860 --> 01:03:43,460
and on top of that, he had a
lot of really smart people,
1154
01:03:43,460 --> 01:03:45,770
career-savvy people, advising him.
1155
01:03:45,770 --> 01:03:47,190
And they were telling Keith,
1156
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:52,120
okay, now you stop making so much work.
1157
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,590
There is a supply and demand going here.
1158
01:03:55,590 --> 01:03:57,120
You make bigger work.
1159
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:00,480
You make a set number of
work for a show in New York
1160
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,310
every year, if you're
really that prolific,
1161
01:04:02,310 --> 01:04:04,180
and you can do a show in Europe.
1162
01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:05,050
You can do your commissions.
1163
01:04:05,050 --> 01:04:06,750
But for goodness' sake,
1164
01:04:06,750 --> 01:04:11,750
stop drawing on every kid's black book.
1165
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,910
Stop drawing on people's clothes.
1166
01:04:14,910 --> 01:04:18,231
Stop giving your work away for free.
1167
01:04:58,390 --> 01:05:00,720
He was extremely sensitive.
1168
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,850
He had a way of being very giving.
1169
01:05:03,850 --> 01:05:06,650
When we were both invited to lunch
1170
01:05:06,650 --> 01:05:09,230
at a certain household,
1171
01:05:09,230 --> 01:05:13,000
and these people at the
house was all children
1172
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,920
and adults, all sort of thing,
1173
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,350
would you please sign this,
would you please sign this?
1174
01:05:17,350 --> 01:05:19,870
Keith was very, very accommodating,
1175
01:05:19,870 --> 01:05:22,620
but also instead of just signing his name,
1176
01:05:22,620 --> 01:05:24,520
which I would do,
1177
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,780
usually all of us just sign our names,
1178
01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:29,560
because what else can you do?
1179
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,470
There's so many people asking.
1180
01:05:31,470 --> 01:05:34,310
But he would do a drawing
1181
01:05:35,218 --> 01:05:36,370
for each one of them.
1182
01:05:36,370 --> 01:05:38,640
And I thought that was
very generous of him,
1183
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,240
because it's not like
1184
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,790
a normal celebrity doing a drawing.
1185
01:05:44,790 --> 01:05:49,070
He's a very highly acclaimed
1186
01:05:49,070 --> 01:05:53,490
and demanded artist.
1187
01:05:53,490 --> 01:05:55,650
His images started really penetrating
1188
01:05:55,650 --> 01:06:00,510
people's consciousness,
and so he began to notice,
1189
01:06:00,510 --> 01:06:02,490
and friends from all over the world
1190
01:06:02,490 --> 01:06:05,030
began to tell him, oh you know
1191
01:06:05,030 --> 01:06:07,620
they're selling Keith
Haring T-shirts in Thailand.
1192
01:06:07,620 --> 01:06:10,140
You know, I saw Keith
Haring sneakers in Berlin.
1193
01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:13,864
And I saw Keith Haring pants in Brazil.
1194
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,680
- When Keith Haring opened
the Pop Shop in 1985
1195
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,633
on Lafayette Street, it
signaled a significant shift
1196
01:06:36,633 --> 01:06:41,633
in the way that youth culture
was going to express itself.
1197
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,890
- Keith really advanced
what an artist could do.
1198
01:06:45,890 --> 01:06:49,090
Taking Andy Warhol's
factory one step further
1199
01:06:49,090 --> 01:06:51,840
into an actual factory store.
1200
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,434
When you look at what's come since then,
1201
01:06:55,434 --> 01:06:58,600
particularly Takashi Murakami,
1202
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:02,610
taking Keith's approach
perhaps even further,
1203
01:07:02,610 --> 01:07:05,780
maybe not so much conceptually further,
1204
01:07:05,780 --> 01:07:09,830
but pushing it more with a connection
1205
01:07:09,830 --> 01:07:12,350
with major merchandising companies.
1206
01:07:12,350 --> 01:07:13,913
- They misunderstood a lot
of things that Keith did.
1207
01:07:13,913 --> 01:07:16,830
I mean, The Pop Shop they thought
was a commercial endeavor.
1208
01:07:16,830 --> 01:07:19,050
He wasn't gonna get rich
off of selling T-shirts
1209
01:07:19,050 --> 01:07:21,740
and blow-up pillows, and buttons.
1210
01:07:21,740 --> 01:07:23,140
This wasn't about money.
1211
01:07:23,140 --> 01:07:24,710
It was about accessibility.
1212
01:07:24,710 --> 01:07:28,500
And it was about him reaching people,
1213
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:33,500
and it was about spreading
the creative energy
1214
01:07:33,710 --> 01:07:35,032
that he had.
1215
01:07:43,430 --> 01:07:45,190
Partly at the prodding of Tony,
1216
01:07:45,190 --> 01:07:49,066
I've become interested in trying to do,
1217
01:07:49,066 --> 01:07:51,140
to translate some of my things
1218
01:07:51,140 --> 01:07:53,240
into large outdoor sculptures,
1219
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:55,810
and into public sculptures.
1220
01:07:55,810 --> 01:07:59,760
And Tony has arranged through to
1221
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,230
do an exhibition at Castelli Gallery.
1222
01:08:48,580 --> 01:08:50,960
He just insisted.
1223
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,610
Okay, now this year I
have a show in Paris,
1224
01:08:54,610 --> 01:08:56,050
and I have a show in Milano,
1225
01:08:56,050 --> 01:08:58,240
and I have a show in wherever,
1226
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,670
and that's great, and I've
got to produce all this work.
1227
01:09:01,670 --> 01:09:04,940
But I insist that when I go
1228
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:06,930
to be present at my exhibition
1229
01:09:06,930 --> 01:09:09,580
in whatever country or city
1230
01:09:09,580 --> 01:09:12,800
I also want to do something lasting
1231
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,630
and meaningful that will remain.
1232
01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:19,060
Something that will help people,
1233
01:09:19,060 --> 01:09:21,573
and something that brings joy.
1234
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,720
And so that is why, even today,
1235
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,880
in any number of cities around the world
1236
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,700
there remain Keith Haring murals
1237
01:09:34,700 --> 01:09:38,140
because fortunately people value them
1238
01:09:38,140 --> 01:09:41,030
not for their art market value,
1239
01:09:41,030 --> 01:09:43,293
but for their spirit.
1240
01:09:45,150 --> 01:09:45,983
I do all kinds of things.
1241
01:09:45,983 --> 01:09:47,430
Sometimes they're temporary,
1242
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:49,300
and sometimes they last forever.
1243
01:10:04,124 --> 01:10:06,380
There's a new museum that's
just been built in Antwerp
1244
01:10:06,380 --> 01:10:08,610
and they asked me to do a permanent mural
1245
01:10:08,610 --> 01:10:12,670
inside the museum in the
cafeteria, which I do.
1246
01:10:35,418 --> 01:10:37,820
And it's very beautiful
staying in Belgium.
1247
01:10:37,820 --> 01:10:40,060
I spent three weeks in Knokke painting,
1248
01:10:40,060 --> 01:10:42,120
and I'm living while I'm there
1249
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,770
inside of this house that has been made
1250
01:10:45,770 --> 01:10:48,010
by Niki de Saint Phalle and Jean Tinguely
1251
01:10:49,493 --> 01:10:50,914
on the property of the Nellens,
1252
01:10:50,914 --> 01:10:53,158
and in this enchanted house.
1253
01:10:53,158 --> 01:10:57,908
I'm living with his family
and having an incredible time.
1254
01:11:52,050 --> 01:11:53,890
The idea of the circle.
1255
01:11:53,890 --> 01:11:56,610
I bind myself to exorcize myself
1256
01:11:56,610 --> 01:11:57,823
only in one way.
1257
01:11:58,850 --> 01:12:00,053
Beauty in a circle.
1258
01:12:00,929 --> 01:12:03,740
But beauty is not suddenly in a circle.
1259
01:12:03,740 --> 01:12:05,700
It comes with rapture.
1260
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:08,010
A great deal of beauty is rapture.
1261
01:12:08,010 --> 01:12:10,410
- Things have seriously
changed already in New York,
1262
01:12:10,410 --> 01:12:12,360
and in my life, but in
New York in general,
1263
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,820
because we've introduced
this new horror of AIDS
1264
01:12:15,820 --> 01:12:19,790
which totally changed everyone's life,
1265
01:12:19,790 --> 01:12:22,563
and was affecting everyone's
life by this point.
1266
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,360
The first introduction of it was probably
1267
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,110
as early as '82, starting to hear rumors
1268
01:12:28,110 --> 01:12:32,210
of these mysterious deaths of gay men.
1269
01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:35,741
Do you know the brother?
1270
01:12:35,741 --> 01:12:37,090
Poor brother, he is dead.
1271
01:12:37,090 --> 01:12:39,010
People have this idea about the 80's
1272
01:12:39,010 --> 01:12:41,350
as being so fantastic.
1273
01:12:41,350 --> 01:12:44,010
I was telling people no,
the 80's were terrible.
1274
01:12:44,010 --> 01:12:45,930
AIDS arrived, and it wasn't called AIDS.
1275
01:12:45,930 --> 01:12:47,110
It was called gay cancer.
1276
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:48,600
We didn't know what it was.
1277
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,470
But that pretty much ended the fun.
1278
01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:51,850
It was horrible.
1279
01:12:51,850 --> 01:12:54,503
I mean, can you imagine being in your 20s,
1280
01:12:54,503 --> 01:12:57,260
and all your friends,
and they're all dying?
1281
01:12:57,260 --> 01:12:58,910
Act up was the AIDS coalition,
1282
01:12:58,910 --> 01:13:00,660
Unleash Power was a political group
1283
01:13:00,660 --> 01:13:03,680
fighting to get the
government to take notice
1284
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,970
of the AIDS epidemic that was happening,
1285
01:13:05,970 --> 01:13:09,270
to get testing through the
National Institute of Health,
1286
01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:11,820
NIH, get tests made faster.
1287
01:13:11,820 --> 01:13:15,000
There's so much bureaucracy
in medical research
1288
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:16,010
at that time.
1289
01:13:16,010 --> 01:13:18,190
And through the efforts of Act Up,
1290
01:13:18,190 --> 01:13:21,450
they changed the way the US government
1291
01:13:21,450 --> 01:13:22,283
was dealing with AIDS.
1292
01:13:22,283 --> 01:13:24,970
And it was a very creative way to protest.
1293
01:13:24,970 --> 01:13:26,460
When Keith was diagnosed with AIDS,
1294
01:13:26,460 --> 01:13:29,866
he became a big part of Act Up.
1295
01:13:37,420 --> 01:13:40,440
Now I fit exactly the classifications
1296
01:13:40,440 --> 01:13:42,510
of actually having AIDS.
1297
01:13:42,510 --> 01:13:45,500
So for the first time, it was a reality
1298
01:13:45,500 --> 01:13:46,833
that now it was gonna
begin to happen to me,
1299
01:13:46,833 --> 01:13:48,540
and now I had to deal with it.
1300
01:13:48,540 --> 01:13:51,210
It's like I knew that it was gonna happen,
1301
01:13:51,210 --> 01:13:55,020
but somehow, it doesn't
prepare you anymore
1302
01:13:55,020 --> 01:13:57,860
for that moment when you
know that it's really,
1303
01:13:57,860 --> 01:14:00,380
it's hitting, I mean at first it was just,
1304
01:14:00,380 --> 01:14:01,410
you break down, whatever.
1305
01:14:01,410 --> 01:14:03,037
I went and sat by the river,
1306
01:14:03,037 --> 01:14:05,430
and just cried, and cried, and cried.
1307
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:08,173
But then it's like, well you can't just,
1308
01:14:08,173 --> 01:14:09,410
well you have to go on.
1309
01:14:09,410 --> 01:14:11,270
You get yourself together, and you realize
1310
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:14,030
that this is not the end right there,
1311
01:14:14,030 --> 01:14:14,887
and that there's other things,
1312
01:14:14,887 --> 01:14:17,440
and you gotta continue,
and you've gotta figure out
1313
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:18,460
how you're gonna deal with it,
1314
01:14:18,460 --> 01:14:20,023
and confront it, and face it.
1315
01:14:24,860 --> 01:14:26,693
- Yeah, I was probably one
of the first people to know
1316
01:14:26,693 --> 01:14:28,830
that he was HIV.
1317
01:14:28,830 --> 01:14:29,740
Yeah.
1318
01:14:29,740 --> 01:14:30,810
It was a hard thing to swallow,
1319
01:14:30,810 --> 01:14:33,264
but again, it wasn't a,
1320
01:14:33,264 --> 01:14:35,430
it wasn't a surprise.
1321
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:37,550
Like I just said, I mean these
people were pretty crazy.
1322
01:14:37,550 --> 01:14:40,053
They were known to be pretty wild.
1323
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,960
So when he came to me with that,
1324
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:47,530
it didn't shock me.
1325
01:14:47,530 --> 01:14:49,093
Did we ever talk about it?
1326
01:14:53,550 --> 01:14:55,703
He did say to me I have so much to do.
1327
01:14:57,236 --> 01:14:58,740
I have so much to do.
1328
01:14:58,740 --> 01:15:00,870
And I remember once going into his studio,
1329
01:15:00,870 --> 01:15:03,783
and he was working feverishly,
1330
01:15:04,958 --> 01:15:06,850
and I was saying to him what's going on?
1331
01:15:06,850 --> 01:15:08,750
And he said I just have so much to do.
1332
01:15:29,529 --> 01:15:33,600
- When Keith did his
article in Rolling Stone,
1333
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,870
it was amazing how brave he was
1334
01:15:35,870 --> 01:15:38,460
to come out publicly.
1335
01:15:38,460 --> 01:15:40,313
Because no one else was doing that.
1336
01:15:41,310 --> 01:15:46,280
And I think he was shocked a little bit
1337
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:51,280
by the parties invitations stopped.
1338
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,711
I did see Keith, and he told me,
1339
01:15:55,711 --> 01:15:57,320
you know I'm sick.
1340
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,250
It was overwhelming, but what made it
1341
01:16:00,250 --> 01:16:03,330
not as bad as you would think
1342
01:16:03,330 --> 01:16:05,830
was the way he just was dealing with it.
1343
01:16:05,830 --> 01:16:08,960
The way he said, you know, I'm just gonna
1344
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:10,930
get the right treatment, and eat right,
1345
01:16:10,930 --> 01:16:12,180
and boom, boom, boom,
1346
01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:16,810
and he really managed it in a very heroic,
1347
01:16:16,810 --> 01:16:18,680
and a courageous way.
1348
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:20,180
- He looked at me, and
he said there's something
1349
01:16:20,180 --> 01:16:22,110
I want you to do for me.
1350
01:16:22,110 --> 01:16:24,490
And it was like, how many
times he had said that
1351
01:16:24,490 --> 01:16:29,000
to me, by this point in
our lives, like thousands.
1352
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,920
Something I need you to do.
1353
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:32,700
I'd be like, okay what?
1354
01:16:32,700 --> 01:16:35,654
Well, I need you to tell my parents
1355
01:16:35,654 --> 01:16:37,580
that I have AIDS.
1356
01:16:37,580 --> 01:16:38,760
And I was floored.
1357
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:40,483
I mean, I was absolutely,
1358
01:16:42,150 --> 01:16:42,983
like.
1359
01:16:45,140 --> 01:16:47,080
And I think it took me a second or two
1360
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:48,423
to say okay, I'll do it.
1361
01:16:48,423 --> 01:16:50,163
It's not a problem.
1362
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:55,260
We talked about whether or not
1363
01:16:57,260 --> 01:17:00,430
art came from within,
1364
01:17:00,430 --> 01:17:04,293
or came through from some other place.
1365
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,920
And you were just a vehicle, in a sense,
1366
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,070
of this energy coming,
1367
01:17:11,070 --> 01:17:16,070
and you were just designated
to get these things out,
1368
01:17:18,067 --> 01:17:22,670
and create these works for
people to enjoy, or hate.
1369
01:17:22,670 --> 01:17:26,650
He exemplified what an artist should be.
1370
01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:48,240
- I started
having more and more need
1371
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,700
to be with intellectual companionship
1372
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:52,070
to deal with the situation,
1373
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:55,990
because it really required
a lot of mental activity,
1374
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:57,730
and talking about, and
trying to figure out
1375
01:17:57,730 --> 01:18:00,360
exactly what was going on and what to do
1376
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,170
with the situation,
and I met this kid Gil,
1377
01:18:03,170 --> 01:18:06,020
who I fall madly in love with.
1378
01:18:09,993 --> 01:18:11,740
I never knew Gil so much.
1379
01:18:11,740 --> 01:18:13,223
And I found it peculiar,
1380
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:18,980
that you would fall in
love with a straight man.
1381
01:18:18,980 --> 01:18:20,600
Now, you can have friends,
1382
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:21,863
but that cannot,
1383
01:18:23,410 --> 01:18:25,033
Keith was a very sexual person.
1384
01:18:25,882 --> 01:18:27,440
What did that mean, that you were in love
1385
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:31,393
with a man who couldn't
love you in that way?
1386
01:18:32,550 --> 01:18:33,560
No judgment.
1387
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:35,300
- I was fortunate enough
to travel with Keith
1388
01:18:35,300 --> 01:18:37,590
to many countries,
1389
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:42,373
France, England, Belgium, Italy.
1390
01:18:44,750 --> 01:18:46,000
Morocco.
1391
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:48,170
We would go to museums together.
1392
01:18:48,170 --> 01:18:49,610
If he could get away with it,
1393
01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:53,680
he would like to touch texture,
1394
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:57,403
not only visual, but actual touching.
1395
01:19:05,210 --> 01:19:07,603
- I also have a
problem going to museums,
1396
01:19:08,660 --> 01:19:13,440
knowing, trying to decide between looking
1397
01:19:13,440 --> 01:19:15,310
at the paintings or cruising,
1398
01:19:15,310 --> 01:19:18,060
because museums are some
of the cruisiest places
1399
01:19:18,060 --> 01:19:19,490
in the world, I think.
1400
01:19:19,490 --> 01:19:21,290
I'm supposed to be really
interested in this painting,
1401
01:19:21,290 --> 01:19:25,980
but the power of a hot body
1402
01:19:25,980 --> 01:19:28,080
can still overpower that, so in some ways,
1403
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,650
it might be the, I mean
it's probably one of
1404
01:19:30,650 --> 01:19:31,923
the strongest forces.
1405
01:19:53,480 --> 01:19:56,410
- Keith met Piergiorgio
and Roberto Castellani
1406
01:19:56,410 --> 01:19:57,760
on the streets of New York.
1407
01:19:59,260 --> 01:20:01,490
And from that meeting,
1408
01:20:01,490 --> 01:20:03,550
developed an invitation
1409
01:20:03,550 --> 01:20:05,810
to come to the city of Pisa
1410
01:20:05,810 --> 01:20:10,310
which also has quite a
well-known landmark already.
1411
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:13,630
And he was asked, this
contemporary artist,
1412
01:20:13,630 --> 01:20:16,110
this gay artist, this very young artist,
1413
01:20:16,110 --> 01:20:19,800
this artist who had HIV,
was invited to paint a mural
1414
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:21,357
on the outside of a church!
1415
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,060
He wanted to set up a foundation
1416
01:21:25,060 --> 01:21:27,670
to carry out and to continue
1417
01:21:27,670 --> 01:21:30,570
the kind of charitable work
1418
01:21:30,570 --> 01:21:32,810
that he had done all his life.
1419
01:21:32,810 --> 01:21:35,210
He started to really focus
1420
01:21:35,210 --> 01:21:38,430
on what he wanted to leave as a legacy.
1421
01:21:38,430 --> 01:21:40,490
Let's just pretend you get hit by a cab.
1422
01:21:40,490 --> 01:21:42,260
Let's just go that route, Keith.
1423
01:21:42,260 --> 01:21:43,600
I know you don't want to talk about this,
1424
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,860
but you're throwing this
whole foundation thing
1425
01:21:45,860 --> 01:21:49,440
on all of us, and there's a
certain amount of stuff here
1426
01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:51,000
that I feel like I needed to know.
1427
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,380
It was a little bit like pulling teeth
1428
01:21:52,380 --> 01:21:54,130
at the same time.
1429
01:21:54,130 --> 01:21:57,210
Not a conversation that
you really want to have.
1430
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:51,580
- He was in Germany at
the end of January 1990.
1431
01:22:51,580 --> 01:22:54,083
He died on February 16th 1990.
1432
01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:56,540
He didn't stop.
1433
01:22:56,540 --> 01:22:58,820
He did not stop.
1434
01:22:58,820 --> 01:23:01,100
There was no one, I can't imagine anyone
1435
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:06,100
being able to do as much work as he did
1436
01:23:06,380 --> 01:23:09,160
in that short period of time.
1437
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:10,040
It was incredible.
1438
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:14,364
He was like a superman or something.
1439
01:23:25,490 --> 01:23:27,360
Now he's cremated,
1440
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:31,580
and we had to fight for the,
1441
01:23:31,580 --> 01:23:35,563
we had to struggle or fight for the ashes.
1442
01:23:36,830 --> 01:23:39,230
Found out in an offhanded way
1443
01:23:39,230 --> 01:23:42,320
that you get cremated, and guess what?
1444
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:45,373
It's actually disposed of
with industrial garbage.
1445
01:23:48,030 --> 01:23:51,580
We created these two services,
1446
01:23:51,580 --> 01:23:55,660
two funeral services, that
we had in the Kutztown area.
1447
01:23:55,660 --> 01:23:59,890
One was in a church that
his family participates in,
1448
01:23:59,890 --> 01:24:02,580
and the second service, we ended up having
1449
01:24:02,580 --> 01:24:06,280
on the hillside where he
used to go and hang out,
1450
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,970
and meditate after school,
1451
01:24:08,970 --> 01:24:12,400
or maybe sometimes during
school, I'm not sure.
1452
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:13,810
I have a psychic side, you know.
1453
01:24:13,810 --> 01:24:17,363
So ghosts and spirits whisper to me.
1454
01:24:20,288 --> 01:24:22,473
- It was a sad day when
we brought his ashes.
1455
01:24:23,420 --> 01:24:26,260
It was a rough day period.
1456
01:24:26,260 --> 01:24:29,530
But then Julia carried them up
1457
01:24:29,530 --> 01:24:30,973
in a plastic container.
1458
01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:33,520
And then she opened them
1459
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:36,640
and handed them to me first.
1460
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,700
At the hill, they were giving out
1461
01:24:43,910 --> 01:24:46,810
parts of the bones to people.
1462
01:24:46,810 --> 01:24:49,570
And I received it too.
1463
01:24:49,570 --> 01:24:51,550
The neat thing was in all the family
1464
01:24:51,550 --> 01:24:55,590
we all took some and
let the wind take them,
1465
01:24:55,590 --> 01:24:58,430
and a flock of geese went over.
1466
01:24:58,430 --> 01:25:00,400
It was almost like a sign.
1467
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:01,920
And I put it in my pocket.
1468
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,650
And I thought what am I gonna do with it?
1469
01:25:04,650 --> 01:25:07,270
And suddenly Keith just whispered to me
1470
01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:08,350
saying keep it.
1471
01:25:08,350 --> 01:25:09,183
Hold it.
1472
01:25:09,183 --> 01:25:11,064
I'll tell you what to do.
1473
01:25:11,064 --> 01:25:12,730
So then okay.
1474
01:25:12,730 --> 01:25:14,353
It was a beautiful day though.
1475
01:25:14,353 --> 01:25:15,850
And when I think back on
it, I can still look up
1476
01:25:15,850 --> 01:25:18,370
and see these clouds, and
it was this incredible
1477
01:25:18,370 --> 01:25:22,160
Hollywood sky, and it was just,
1478
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:24,330
it was a beautiful moment,
when I think about it.
1479
01:25:24,330 --> 01:25:26,550
Kermit I think sprinkled them
1480
01:25:26,550 --> 01:25:28,810
in the shape of a crawling baby.
1481
01:25:28,810 --> 01:25:32,267
He took the ashes and sprinkled them out.
1482
01:25:32,267 --> 01:25:35,570
- And I ended up officiating
this funeral service
1483
01:25:35,570 --> 01:25:38,360
for some of his closest friends,
1484
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,313
and certainly Tony.
1485
01:25:41,472 --> 01:25:45,830
And I think the Scharfs,
Kenny and his wife.
1486
01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:47,613
And Yoko Ono.
1487
01:25:49,010 --> 01:25:50,240
Yeah, that was a big doings.
1488
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:53,410
When Yoko Ono was in Bowers.
1489
01:25:53,410 --> 01:25:54,293
I went home.
1490
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,970
And Keith said that he would like me
1491
01:25:57,970 --> 01:26:01,490
to take it to Paris.
1492
01:26:01,490 --> 01:26:05,960
And put it
1493
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:10,660
in the obelisk in front of the Ritz,
1494
01:26:10,660 --> 01:26:11,920
the Place Vendome.
1495
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:13,500
I went to Paris,
1496
01:26:13,500 --> 01:26:14,957
and then Keith just came again
1497
01:26:14,957 --> 01:26:16,583
and said do it today!
1498
01:26:17,470 --> 01:26:21,780
The car was going to a
gallery that we know.
1499
01:26:21,780 --> 01:26:24,580
And it sort of passed in front of Ritz,
1500
01:26:24,580 --> 01:26:26,260
and I said stop, stop!
1501
01:26:26,260 --> 01:26:28,130
I jumped out of the car.
1502
01:26:28,130 --> 01:26:32,060
And I just put it exactly where Keith said
1503
01:26:32,060 --> 01:26:32,893
I should put it.
1504
01:26:42,790 --> 01:26:43,860
To this day, I have,
1505
01:26:43,860 --> 01:26:45,263
it's somebody who is still,
1506
01:26:46,590 --> 01:26:48,130
to me, he's still present in my life.
1507
01:26:48,130 --> 01:26:49,600
Not only I have his artwork
1508
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:50,750
all over my house,
1509
01:26:50,750 --> 01:26:53,510
not only my children still talk about him.
1510
01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:57,340
I tell stories of his to my children,
1511
01:26:57,340 --> 01:27:00,210
and not only talk to my friends about him,
1512
01:27:00,210 --> 01:27:02,210
still he's somebody very present.
1513
01:27:02,210 --> 01:27:06,993
- He would always tease
me that I'd forget him.
1514
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:12,130
That I would forget him
soon after he passed,
1515
01:27:12,130 --> 01:27:14,840
and I can honestly say
1516
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:16,790
that I have thought about Keith
1517
01:27:17,770 --> 01:27:21,520
every day since he passed.
1518
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,640
Keith's alive everyday in my life.
1519
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:28,470
Like I said, I see his
stuff on people's chat,
1520
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:30,930
the weirdest times, it's
like it never stops.
1521
01:27:30,930 --> 01:27:33,220
It's like they say, is
it art or is it God?
1522
01:27:33,220 --> 01:27:38,020
It's like Keith is still around.
1523
01:27:38,020 --> 01:27:41,003
I was sitting with him, and I held him,
1524
01:27:41,950 --> 01:27:45,030
and I said that I knew
he could understand me,
1525
01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:46,130
that he could hear me.
1526
01:27:48,820 --> 01:27:52,060
And that he, everything was gonna be okay.
1527
01:27:52,060 --> 01:27:56,830
And his legacy
1528
01:27:58,130 --> 01:27:59,123
was gonna live on,
1529
01:28:00,410 --> 01:28:02,373
and it was just gonna grow.
1530
01:28:03,700 --> 01:28:06,580
And that he should just relax,
1531
01:28:06,580 --> 01:28:11,530
because he's just done amazing things,
1532
01:28:11,530 --> 01:28:13,653
and it was gonna continue.
1533
01:28:14,540 --> 01:28:17,053
And he calmed down.
1534
01:28:18,590 --> 01:28:20,270
His agitation stopped.
1535
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:22,690
And I said I know you can,
1536
01:28:22,690 --> 01:28:24,310
you know what I'm saying.
1537
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:25,897
And then he died.
1538
01:28:31,501 --> 01:28:33,668
Like a couple hours later.
108427
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.