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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,480 This imposing house in Kent 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,520 was once the setting for one of literature's greatest mysteries. 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Our story begins in 1870, 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,960 on the 8th June, around about six o'clock in the evening. 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,280 On that particular day, 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,160 Charles Dickens had been hard at work on his latest novel. 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,240 He'd worked for eight hours solid, which was unusual for him - 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,400 he preferred working in shorter bursts. 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,360 And that evening here at Gad's Hill, which is now a school. 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,640 He came down to the dining room 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,280 to have dinner with his sister-in-law, Miss Hogarth. 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,000 Almost as soon as he entered, 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,160 he started complaining of a toothache, 14 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:51,000 and immediately, he collapsed and lost consciousness and never recovered. 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,480 He died shortly afterwards, and he'd never complete his final novel, 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,640 even though the first three instalments already being published, 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,120 gripping the nation, leaving his audience with this unquenchable thirst for resolution. 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,440 The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is one of the most perplexing 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,480 and celebrated unfinished masterpieces in English literature. 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,400 It's a story that continues to haunt us and entice us. 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,800 I'm going to try and prize open our fascination with this 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,080 and other unfinished masterpieces 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,720 that some of our greatest authors and artists have left behind. 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,800 Dickens' death before he got to complete his final masterpiece 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,160 is one of the great frustrations of British literature. 26 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,200 And more than 100 years later with a new drama adaptation on the BBC, 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,480 we're still trying to solve his riddle 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,560 and find the right ending for this tantalising tale. 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,960 KNOCKING AT DOOR 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,720 Rosa! To your room this minute! 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,800 What is it? When did you last see Edwin? Yesterday afternoon. Why? 32 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,680 You saw or heard nothing of him last night? 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,080 What has happened to Eddie? 34 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,200 He departed my house last night with Neville Landless 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,280 and he never came home. 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,280 Neville left at first light to walk by the coast. 37 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:15,920 Thank you, Miss Twinkleton. 38 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,760 What Dickens left us in the few chapters he had completed 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,280 was a cast of brilliant characters, and a riveting mystery to solve. 40 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,160 Edwin Drood is the nephew of John Jasper, a choirmaster 41 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,000 who becomes obsessed with Drood's fiancee, Rosa. 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,640 Jasper seems respectable, but he has secrets. 43 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:53,120 He's addicted to opium, and he has designs on the underage Rosa. 44 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,160 So when his nephew disappears, the finger points at him. 45 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,960 There's a certain irony to the fact that 46 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,400 of all the works he could have left unfinished, 47 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,240 Dickens managed to die in the middle of a murder mystery, 48 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,560 leaving behind a whodunnit that could never be solved. 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,200 It's fiendishly frustrating. 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,360 The full title is The Mystery Of Edwin Drood. 51 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,680 We don't know what's happened to Edwin, 52 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,680 whether Jasper has killed him 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,920 and he's buried under the cloisters in the cathedral. 54 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,800 The Mystery Of Edwin Drood is a special case, I think, 55 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,600 of an excitement to want to complete on the part of the reader 56 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,800 because we know that Dickens had a plan for it, cos he always did. 57 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,880 We know that he had a plot 58 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,480 and its incompletion is like 59 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,800 the incompletion one might imagine of an Agatha Christie novel 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,400 or a John le Carre novel. 61 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,720 It was designed as a puzzle and it's the perfect puzzle. 62 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,560 We'll never know, I mean, everyone who's tried to - as it were - 63 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,040 complete it, it's like completing an incomplete game of chess, 64 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,680 after two or three moves you don't know where the game is going to go. 65 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,960 One question is whether Dickens himself 66 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,840 knew where this story was going. 67 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:24,920 The actual manuscript that Dickens left behind still exists, 68 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,520 here at the Victoria and Albert Museum, 69 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,920 so I'm going to take a look at it. 70 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,160 Volume Two. 71 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,520 And we turn to the end. 72 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,640 This is the manuscript of Edwin Drood. 73 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,280 It looks very... This is bizarre, looking at this! 74 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:53,320 Here is this kind of cacophonous page of writing with crossings-out 75 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,640 and different coloured ink and messy bits and neater passages. 76 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,760 So there's a real sense of a mind at work here. 77 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,920 Cacophonous is a very good word, actually. 78 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,360 Dickens is always working at a frenetic pace, as you know. 79 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,600 One's feeling is when you see this that he's throwing the words down. 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,640 Some passages come out totally clear, others he has to revise. 81 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,320 I'm very glad to have seen this 82 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,360 because Dickens has such a teeming, fertile imagination, 83 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,320 it would have been an immense disappointment to find 84 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,640 a very crabbed, precise handwriting style 85 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,160 that he was writing in his original manuscript. 86 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,520 So this is the very last page? 87 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,840 It's the last page. 88 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,200 "And then falls to with an appetite." 89 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,840 And then there's this kind of spiralling flourish. 90 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:39,720 Of course, this was written within hours of him collapsing 91 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,200 and having a stroke at Gad's Hill, shortly before he died. Yes. 92 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,200 I mean, this was in the final 24 to 48 hours of his life. 93 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,080 He's not supposing that he won't start with renewed energy 94 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,880 the next time he sits down to produce the next chapter. 95 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,520 Don't you love that the last word he wrote was appetite? 96 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,640 There couldn't be a more Dickensian word. 97 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,360 But the thing that's so, in a sense, moving but also slightly frustrating 98 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,200 about looking at the manuscript 99 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,080 is this idea that because you look at it in his own hand, 100 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,320 it feels so intimate and close to him and to the workings of his mind 101 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,880 that this reminds us that we're all locked inside 102 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,040 the fortress of our own solitude, of our own identity and individuality. 103 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,680 This doesn't reveal anything about Dickens, does it, 104 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,120 in terms of what he was going to do with the story? 105 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,560 It FEELS like it must, there must be a clue here 106 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,480 but what we're left with is just this fainter and fainter line 107 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,640 going down the page. 108 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,640 o, no clues in the manuscript, but back at Gad's Hill, 109 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Dickens' ancestor - the biographer Lucinda Hawksley - 110 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,120 might be able to help. 111 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,560 Could we talk a little bit about the whole sort of make-up 112 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,200 of Dickens' imagination? 113 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,080 Do we know where Dickens got the plot for Edwin Drood from? 114 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,120 Was it a figment of his imagination or inspired by real-life events or what? 115 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,720 It was a little bit of both and he started off, 116 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,240 he wrote to John Forster and... 117 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,600 Who was Forster? Sorry, his best friend and his first biographer. 118 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,040 And Dickens wrote to him and said that he was going to do a story 119 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,360 of a young couple who'd been intended for each other from childhood by their families, 120 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,560 who go their separate ways in the world. 121 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,600 A very simple love story is how he almost described it really, 122 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,120 and at the end of the book they would come to their "impending fate" as he called it - marriage. 123 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,080 Then he wrote to Forster in 1869, 124 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,960 so just ten months before he died 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,480 and he said that he'd decided to turn it into 126 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,440 a murder of a nephew by his uncle. 127 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,880 We know from his time in America 128 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,360 that Dickens had been very interested in a real-life murder 129 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:41,960 that had happened there. 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,200 There was a chap called Parkman who was a moneylender 131 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,040 and he had a client who was Professor Webster 132 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,520 who owed him around $2,000, which he just couldn't afford to pay. 133 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,800 It was known that Parkman was going to expose Webster. 134 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,640 Parkman went to Harvard to meet the professor and was never seen again. 135 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,400 From that moment on, Webster kept his laboratory locked 136 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,160 and eventually the body or parts of the body were discovered 137 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,640 when the janitor - who'd become very curious by all this - 138 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,640 actually broke through the brickwork to enter the laboratory that way 139 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,840 and found human remains. 140 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,800 It's known that Webster had burned Dr Parkman's clothing 141 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,840 and he'd also thrown the doctor's watch into the river, in the hope... 142 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,440 That's what happened in the novel! Yes. The watch appears in the river. 143 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,520 Absolutely. Is the conclusion of this then, 144 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,880 Dickens had killed off Edwin Drood by the time of his death? 145 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,400 I don't know if we can. 146 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,040 That was his intention originally in August of 1869 147 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,480 but I don't know if we can say for certain 148 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,920 because Dickens liked to change and keep his readers guessing. 149 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,000 Part of the reason the mystery is so tantalising 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,400 is that it is unresolved, we don't know whether he has been murdered. 151 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,040 Exactly and he does say in the same letter to Forster 152 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,080 that it's a very good plot but it's difficult to bring about. 153 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,760 So, he says he doesn't want to give away all of the plot 154 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,280 because that would make the book unreadable. 155 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,200 So actually, he was even having double thoughts at the time. 156 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,760 For months after his death, 157 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,520 the obituaries mourned Dickens's characters 158 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,280 as much as the man himself. 159 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,640 It's as if the vivacity of the characters 160 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,560 that sprung from Dickens's fertile imagination, 161 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:27,600 gave them a life off the page 162 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,000 that almost demanded further attention. 163 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,880 This, coupled with the murder mystery format of Drood 164 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,720 was just too much for a clamorous public. 165 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,760 The desire for a finished Edwin Drood became like an itch 166 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,800 that needed to be scratched. 167 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,160 There have been all manner of attempts 168 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,080 to complete The Mystery Of Edwin Drood. 169 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,840 Already in 1873, for example, 170 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,240 which is only three years after Dickens' death, 171 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,800 an American writer called Thomas James 172 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,560 attempted to finish the novel 173 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,480 claiming that he'd been possessed by Dickens's ghost 174 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,120 and the books enjoyed afterlives in a number of different media as well. 175 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,440 I mean, there was a film, a gothic horror movie in 1935 176 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,400 with Claude Rains, who starred in Casablanca, 177 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,040 and my favourite I think, 178 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,440 in the '80s there was a Broadway musical version. 179 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,560 It won five Tony awards. It was the first musical ever 180 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:22,000 to invite the audience to decide on the ending, every single night. 181 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:36,000 And certainly for the latest person to finish the tale, 182 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,480 this time for the BBC, 183 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,280 reviving the characters that Dickens so brilliantly sketched 184 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,160 has been the key to completing The Mystery Of Edwin Drood. 185 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,440 I started off looking at the clues that he left behind 186 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,720 and I soon found they were quite self-contradictory. 187 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,800 And some of them didn't work, 188 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,880 and some got in the way of the story, particularly in this book, 189 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:08,120 where he was writing in such a dark and almost Gothic new style for him. 190 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,560 The characters just spring out of the page at you. 191 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,760 They are the reason people love this book. 192 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,920 In fact, I was helped very much in my wanderings 193 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,640 by Dickens' favourite daughter, Katie, 194 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,320 who counselled everybody at the time. 195 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,360 She said, "Don't get too hung-up..." 196 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,600 I'm paraphrasing! 197 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,840 "Don't get too hung-up on the mystery. 198 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,840 "Remember what my father loved and was good at, 199 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,480 "which was his fantastic 200 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,960 "and strange insight into the mysteries of the human heart." 201 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,200 Fortified by Katie the favourite daughter, 202 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,840 I felt emboldened to go with the characters, 203 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,240 to go where I felt they were going to take me. 204 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,520 In the end, the person whose desires 205 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,280 I most wanted to follow to the end of the story 206 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,000 was John Jasper, the hero of the story. 207 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:57,880 The dark, controlling, mad figure right at the heart of this story. 208 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,320 I always knew where I wanted to end up with John Jasper, 209 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,720 this wonderful anti-hero. 210 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,600 I always knew where he would end up. 211 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,840 And if you've seen the thing already, you'll know that he ends up dead. 212 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,320 He sort of... He's a tragic hero. He needs to die. 213 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,040 It needs to go so horribly wrong for him that the only outcome is death. 214 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,080 And I hope the nation weeps at the loss of him, 215 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,640 even though he's a really horrible person. 216 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,200 'Choose the light. Our Father, who art in heaven... 217 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,160 'Jasper, won't you join me? 218 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,240 'Our Father, who art in heaven...' 219 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,840 Hallowed be Thy name... 220 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:39,080 'Hallowed be Thy name...' Jack! 'Thy kingdom come...' 221 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,200 Thy will be done... 222 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,560 No! 223 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,640 When you talked about your process, 224 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,840 it sounded like you left Dickens behind altogether 225 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,680 and you imagined John Jasper. 226 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:54,720 Were there ever times when you're sitting at your desk in the room next door 227 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,400 where you would suddenly think, 228 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,840 "This is quite an enormous thing I'm taking on. 229 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,800 "Dickens is one of a handful of the greatest geniuses in English literature 230 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,920 "and I'm now trying to complete the novel 231 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,520 "and in a different medium. 232 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,120 "Is that right? Is it wrong?" 233 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,680 Those questions must have troubled you at points. 234 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,680 Yes, there were points when I felt, 235 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,720 "Oh, Lord, I'll never scale this mountain. 236 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,560 "This is just too difficult. 237 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,200 "I'm just little me and he's Charles Dickens..." 238 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,680 A giant in every way, a man I love and respect. 239 00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:31,320 But I think, because I love and respect him, it's OK. 240 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,160 I think it's OK. 241 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,760 I just sat on his lap and listened to what he said, 242 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,320 and sometimes he did object, so I took it out! 243 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,280 And just tried to do something he would have liked, 244 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,920 but not worrying about what he wanted to do. 245 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,320 I did what I wanted to do with the story, with his characters, 246 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,840 in a respectful and loving way. 247 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,840 I'm sure Gwyneth is ultra-meticulous in reviving Dickens's characters, 248 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,280 but she's aided by the fact 249 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,320 that she's adapting something for TV, 250 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,920 something that was originally designed to be read. 251 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,040 It's an important point to remember, 252 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,760 because when you're making a drama adaptation, 253 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,600 in a sense, you bypass the voice of the author altogether - 254 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,480 his or her distinctive prose style - 255 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,560 and concentrate instead on the words of the characters. 256 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,880 I wonder whether if you're commissioned to complete an unfinished novel 257 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,480 that means in fact you face a tougher challenge altogether? 258 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,880 In most cases, for an ordinary reader, 259 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,600 we feel a connection with the writer of the book. 260 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,640 As in, famously, Catcher In The Rye, where the narrator says, 261 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,320 if you read a really good book, 262 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,720 you want to ring up the author and talk to them. 263 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,120 And all readers recognise that emotion. 264 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:55,800 And so it becomes very strange if you're ringing up somebody else. 265 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,720 What we expect when we read a novel by Austen or Dickens, 266 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:05,560 or Laurence Sterne or whoever, is actually a certain voice, really. 267 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,840 And it may be the voice of a character 268 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,280 rather than the voice of the author, 269 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,280 but that's terribly difficult to bring off. 270 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,760 And, in a sense, even if somebody brings it off, 271 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,200 the reader won't read it as the genuine thing - 272 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,520 they'll read it as burlesque or pastiche. 273 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,240 And that already kind of undermines it. 274 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,040 A whole industry has grown up around the unfinished novel, 275 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,120 of so-called "continuators" - 276 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,960 authors who attempt new endings to old stories. 277 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,200 But honestly, how successful can they really be? 278 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,160 There's another great author who left behind an unfinished work. 279 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,320 'Jane Austen also died in the middle of writing her last novel, 280 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,440 'and I wonder whether her fans really care to have it "continued"?' 281 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,520 It was against the blustery backdrop 282 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,680 of a seaside resort in Sussex called Sanditon 283 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,480 that the characters of Jane Austen's last and unfinished novel 284 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,120 lived their brief and aborted lives. 285 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,920 'When Austen began writing Sanditon in January 1817, 286 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560 'she was already in delicate health. 287 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,120 'She died six months later, 288 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,200 'with just 11 chapters complete. 289 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,960 'But the scene was already set.' 290 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,320 So Sanditon is a new coastal resort with very grand ambitions, 291 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,960 because its inhabitants 292 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,480 are determined to put the town on the map, 293 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,400 and cash in on this recent vogue 294 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,760 for holidaying by the British seaside. 295 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,920 It's quite a claustrophobic community, 296 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,560 but under Austen's expert eye, it offers an opportunity 297 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,640 for whip-smart social satire about hypochondria, commercial greed, 298 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:13,240 and what happens when a fresh-faced singleton suddenly arrives in town. 299 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,800 I was hoping to read you a bit of description about the town, 300 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,440 but we're enjoying such a blustery British seaside weather 301 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,720 that I'm a bit worried the book's going to blow away! 302 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,560 You'll just have to take it from me 303 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,880 that the book's actually a very good read. 304 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,680 I was going to say that we've come to Sanditon, but we haven't - 305 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,600 it's Eastbourne! Eastbourne. 306 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,040 Because Sanditon is supposed to be an up-and-coming seaside resort. 307 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,800 It's all a terrific joke. 308 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,920 There's this foolish Parker family. 309 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,400 Mr Tom Parker, who actually owns the village, the estate of Sanditon, 310 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,440 is trying to turn it into the best seaside resort. 311 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,080 And we can see that Sanditon 312 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,760 is going to turn into a cold turkey, a dead duck. 313 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,720 All Mr Parker's great ideas 314 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,800 are probably going to fall flat on their face. 315 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,040 We know it's unfinished. 316 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,920 There are 12 chapters, but there may have been up to 30. 317 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,120 But what about the actual quality of the prose? 318 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,360 Are we looking at something which is a final draft up to that point? 319 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:22,000 Or would this have been revised had she lived? 320 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,640 Well, people do comment that despite the fact she was so ill, 321 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,080 there's no sense of illness in the story. 322 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,360 It's very funny. It rushes along. 323 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,840 And this is part of the sadness of why it's unfinished, 324 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,000 because it was obviously going to be very long and very funny. 325 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,600 How do you feel about the idea of other authors attempting to complete it? 326 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,000 Well, I mean, would you want to copy Jane Austen's style? 327 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,640 COULD you copy her style? 328 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,560 People now and then do try, and it's so obvious that it's not hers. 329 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,360 And they'd have to know an awful lot about the social history of the period, 330 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:02,800 which all too many of the people who do try and write completions and sequels and continuations, 331 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,840 they just don't, and it's so obvious. 332 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,560 So, to finish, or not to finish? That is the question. 333 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,400 Is it better to have half an original Austen, 334 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,680 or a full story completed by a more recent writer? 335 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,520 'I thought I'd do a bit of a straw poll.' 336 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,000 Excuse me, hello, I'm Alastair. Hi, Alastair. 337 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,240 Excuse me, sir. Hello. I'd like to give you a book. 338 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,120 By Jane Austen - her last novel, called Sanditon, 339 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,920 possibly partly inspired by Eastbourne. 340 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,040 Are you a Jane Austen fan? No! 341 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,000 The only catch is that she died before she completed it. 342 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,600 You want us to finish it off for you? If you could! 343 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,040 You haven't heard of it? 344 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,520 Not that many people have. 345 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,680 It's partly because she never finished it. Ah! 346 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,720 What I would love would be for you 347 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,440 to choose either to take away a copy of the incomplete novel - 348 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,480 just her words - 349 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,960 or there are some people who got to it before you did, 350 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,760 and tried to complete it. 351 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:07,200 So you get the whole story with this one, but not necessarily the whole story that Austen herself imagined. 352 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,560 The choice is yours, Barry! 353 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,720 I don't mind reading the unfinished one, because you can put your own ending to it. 354 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,760 You'd rather have the incomplete, would you? Because it's shorter? 355 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,320 Yeah, I can see me reading that. It's not going to take me too long, is it? 356 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,480 I would go for the half-finished one. 357 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,120 Half-finished? Right, that's one for you. Can I ask why? 358 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:30,160 Because the inspiration and the character 359 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,800 came from an original author, 360 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,240 and I don't see how someone else can pick it up and do the same thing. 361 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:40,000 So the idea of the complete one is a bit of a turn-off because it's not her original...? 362 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,280 It's not her writing. Yes. 363 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,400 You don't think that if the writer was sufficiently brilliant 364 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,000 they could get into the mindset of the original author, and complete it? 365 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,880 If they were that brilliant, why would they want to? Why not just do their own thing? 366 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,640 You're going to give this to me? 367 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,600 It's a gift from me to you, Barry! 368 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,240 Thank you very much. Not at all! 369 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,520 It's lovely in Eastbourne, normally! 370 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Do I get to keep this? Yes. Enjoy it! Bye-bye. 371 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,400 I'll tell you what puzzles me. 372 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,960 If attempting to complete a Dickens is so controversial 373 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,320 or finishing an Austen is always going to be seen as second best, 374 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,960 then, in a sense, why bother in the first place? 375 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Surely it's the literary equivalent of a suicide mission? 376 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,840 Or perhaps our desire as readers 377 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,280 to keep characters alive and here to the end 378 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,320 is so strong that, after all, we don't really mind? 379 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,800 Frank Kermode wrote a book called Sense Of An Ending. 380 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:47,040 And one of the bases of what he was saying in that book is that 381 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,200 all our ideologies in the West are teleological. 382 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,200 They're going somewhere - the final judgement, 383 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,320 the withering away of the State if you're a Marxist. 384 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,560 And so, to some extent, we're all wired for conclusions. 385 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,320 Very famously, Kermode came up with the observation that 386 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,280 when we hear a clock go "tick tick tick", 387 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,920 what we hear is "tick tock", because we like beginnings and endings. 388 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,000 "Every tick," he said, "is a genesis. Every tock is a feeble apocalypse." 389 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,280 That is, to some extent, how we frame our universe. 390 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,880 So, we're, as it were, motivated like lemmings going over a cliff. 391 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,200 We're motivated to look for endings. 392 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,840 One of the principles of any art is that it's unified. 393 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,920 And so they expect that all the elements in the work somehow 394 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,960 thematically or structurally relate 395 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,040 to all the other elements in the work. 396 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,840 And that it'll all be tied with closure. 397 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,680 I have a plan, sir... Really, Baldrick? A cunning and subtle one? 398 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,120 Yes, sir. 399 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,560 As cunning as a fox who's just been appointed 400 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,400 Professor of Cunning at Oxford University? Yes, sir. 401 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,480 A work of literature takes its meaning from the ending. 402 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,520 Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan 403 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,160 to get out of this by pretending to be mad. 404 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,080 Who would've noticed another madman around here? 405 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,680 Blackadder Goes Forth 406 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,000 is perhaps the darkest sitcom there's ever been, 407 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,520 because they all die at the end of it. 408 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,000 And if you took that scene off it, it becomes a comedy, 409 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,640 a lighter comedy, in which they might have survived. 410 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:25,840 And this is important. 411 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,120 So if you have an unfinished story, 412 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:33,120 then, at quite an important level, it's meaningless. 413 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,000 Good luck, everyone. WHISTLES BLOW Go! 414 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,120 So we're culturally hardwired to want an ending. 415 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,840 We expect closure and we desire the meaning 416 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,520 that only endings can deliver. 417 00:23:58,520 --> 00:23:59,840 Fair enough. 418 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,320 But can it ever be the case that all these ingredients are contained 419 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,440 WITHIN an unfinished novel or a painting? 420 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,800 For instance, there's the case of the famous unfinished portrait 421 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,800 of one of America's greatest presidents. 422 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,440 This is a reproduction of the portrait 423 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,040 of the first American president, George Washington. 424 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,400 It was begun in 1796 425 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,080 by the charming, fashionable portrait painter, Gilbert Stuart. 426 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,800 And it went on to become quite a famous image. 427 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,600 It didn't have very auspicious beginnings, for two reasons. 428 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,040 Firstly, the president recently had acquired a new set of false teeth, 429 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,080 which meant that his jaw line bulged in a disturbing way, 430 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,360 which wasn't very flattering, and Stuart had to negotiate that. 431 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:51,480 Secondly, Stuart normally tried to liven up his sitters 432 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,000 by engaging them with repartee and banter, 433 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,640 but Washington proved to be quite a dry old stick. 434 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,760 He wouldn't really liven up at all until Stuart eventually 435 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520 engaged him on the president's favourite subject of horses. 436 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,760 But in spite of Stuart's efforts, the painting remained unfinished. 437 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,600 In fact, at some stage, the painter just stopped trying to complete it, 438 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,360 and instead put his efforts into reproducing it almost a hundred times 439 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,120 and selling it in its unfinished state. 440 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,480 I'm curious as to why he did this, 441 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,400 and why the portrait was so desirable nevertheless. 442 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,720 So I've come to a patch of the US in the UK to find out more. 443 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,960 Thank you for inviting me into your office. 444 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,480 I feel like I'm in an episode of The West Wing, but we're in Edinburgh. 445 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,480 The first thing that's obvious when you come into the office 446 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,720 is there is a replica of Gilbert Stuart's famous portrait of George Washington. 447 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,720 And you can see at once, even though it's cropped, the thing was never finished. 448 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,560 Why do you think it was incomplete? 449 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,040 I have a theory that he didn't finish it on purpose, 450 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,080 because it did generate buzz, 451 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,160 it did generate enthusiasm. 452 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,640 People did pay a lot of money at that time for replicas of that painting, 453 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:16,280 so I think it was his way of creating a commercial interest in it. 454 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,760 What does that portrait mean, if you like, to most Americans? 455 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,720 I think most people who look at portraits of George Washington, 456 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,040 especially this one, because it's one of the best-known, 457 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,120 probably feel a sense of pride and affection for their first president. 458 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,640 And not just in an abstract or historic context, either. 459 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,080 Gilbert Stuart's portrait of Washington 460 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,280 has been copied on to the one-dollar bill, 461 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,640 which has been in circulation in the United States for over a century. 462 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:47,800 As a result, 463 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,680 it's now one of the most recognisable symbols of America. 464 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,720 The US one-dollar bill is the most widely circulated note in America 465 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,200 and a lot of gentlemanly bets get done with that one-dollar note. 466 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,640 People with their first business frame that first note they got from their first customer. 467 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,200 Do you think most Americans realise the image of George Washington 468 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,320 on the one-dollar bill is based upon a portrait that was never finished? 469 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,640 I would guess most people don't know it's an unfinished portrait, that they haven't seen the whole thing. 470 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,160 You are American - right? Yes. 471 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,760 So I'd like to give you this dollar bill. Thank you! 472 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,080 What does that image mean to you? 473 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,720 That's George Washington, first president of the US. 474 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,560 This is quite a famous image. Do you know what it's based on? 475 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,600 I believe it's a portrait. 476 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,080 This is a reproduction of the portrait. What are your first impressions? 477 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,880 I guess I assumed it would've been a finished portrait. 478 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,760 Does it seem strange that here's this iconic image, 479 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,400 which is very complete on the dollar bill, 480 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,440 and actually, here's this clearly incomplete sorcery? 481 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,320 I think George Washington is such a major figure in American history, 482 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,080 you can fill in the gaps, even if the portrait painter didn't have time. 483 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,640 There are a lot of artistic works throughout history 484 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,040 that are incomplete. 485 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,760 It's one of those unique things. 486 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,320 Maybe you wish it was finished, or want to know why it wasn't, but it doesn't bother me at all. 487 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,400 Now, thanks to it being used in a different context 488 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,280 on the dollar bill, it has a whole set of associations, 489 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,720 a new narrative, if you like, which feels much more finished, 490 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,160 even though Stuart never had any control over that whatsoever. 491 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,480 Yeah, I think so. 492 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,240 I think you could probably ask millions of Americans 493 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,880 what that portrait means to them, what the dollar bill means to them 494 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,920 or what George Washington means to them 495 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,480 and you would get a million different answers. 496 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,160 But yeah, I think sometimes you don't have to finish something 497 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,240 for there to be a complete story. 498 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,800 With his portrait of Washington, 499 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,440 Gilbert Stuart had told the story his audience needed 500 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,760 without actually finishing. 501 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,160 Perhaps the very unfinished nature of the work reflected the fact 502 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,360 that all Americans knew their own story was only just beginning, 503 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,680 and that, like the painting itself, their nation had a way to go. 504 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,400 This sense of what constitutes the story of a work of art 505 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,080 must therefore be essential. 506 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,280 Sometimes it seems that powerful meaning 507 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,200 can even trump polish and finesse. 508 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,040 But how does this work with the written word? 509 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,080 Is there ever a time where a novel or a poem can feel complete 510 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,520 without being finished? 511 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,760 In Xanadu did Kubla Khan 512 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,200 A stately pleasure dome decree 513 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,680 Where Alph, the sacred river, ran 514 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,200 Through caverns measureless to man 515 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,680 Down to a sunless sea 516 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,200 So twice five miles of fertile ground 517 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,880 With walls and towers were girdled round: 518 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,920 And here were gardens bright with sinuous rills, 519 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,200 Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree; 520 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,600 And here were forests ancient as the hills, 521 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,600 Enfolding sunny spots of greenery. 522 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Kubla Khan is one of the most famous poems in the English language, 523 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,760 memorable not just for its pulsing, musical originality, 524 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,440 but for the opium-induced reverie in which it was conceived. 525 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,600 According to Coleridge, Kubla Khan isn't actually finished at all. 526 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,640 The story goes, that the entire work, 527 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,360 some two or three hundred lines, 528 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,040 came to him, unbidden, fully formed, in a dream, and upon awaking, 529 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,840 flashing with inspiration, he sat down 530 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,120 and began transcribing this poem. 531 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,960 But he only managed to get through a tantalising 54 lines 532 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,240 before he was interupted by a person on business from Porlock, he says. 533 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,040 By the time that he returned to his desk, 534 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,160 his majestic vision had evaporated. 535 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,240 "Passed away," he wrote, "like images on the surface of a stream 536 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,040 "into which a stone is being cast." At least that's his line. 537 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,760 The thing is, the whole story about this humdrum 538 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,320 mystery visitor from Porlock might just be the biggest tease 539 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,520 in English literary history. 540 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,880 At the time, Coleridge considered Kubla Kahan a mere fragment 541 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,360 and not a serious work. 542 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,680 It was only published about 20 years later at the request of his friend, 543 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,920 the poet, Lord Byron. 544 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,120 Andrew, Kubla Khan is such a beautiful poem, 545 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,080 such a well-known poem, but this idea of its fragmentariness, 546 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,240 if we take his word, 547 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,240 then he was interrupted by this fabled man from Porlock. 548 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,720 I think someone once said that if anyone in the history of literature 549 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,200 deserves to be shot, it's this bloke from Porlock! 550 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,800 I mean, do you buy that story? 551 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,680 Perhaps it is an invention, but, actually, I have to say, 552 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,720 it doesn't really bother me very much. 553 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,360 It must be one of the best-known, best-loved poems in the entire English language, 554 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,480 so people can't be feeling too cheesed off not getting what they paid for! 555 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,880 I guess the thing that intrigues me about Kubla Khan is this idea that, 556 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,320 maybe it's not literally unfinished, maybe it is finished, 557 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,760 but it's masquerading as an unfinished poem. Yeah. 558 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,760 By advertising it as an unfinished poem, 559 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,400 which he goes to some lengths to do, 560 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,760 he appears to want to get out of being responsible 561 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,200 for producing a more finished thing. "The dog ate my homework." 562 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,520 That would be one way of reading it. 563 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,800 I think the other way of reading it, and this seems to me more important, 564 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,640 and certainly more powerfully to do with the purposes of the poem, 565 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,360 is to regard it as something which, in completeness, 566 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,360 is something IS the point of the poem, 567 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,240 that what Coleridge is writing about is how our reach exceeds our grasp, 568 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,480 how our creative visions can never be realised entirely, 569 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:13,920 and so on, and so forth. 570 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,600 In other words, the fragmentary nature of it is the subject, 571 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,120 it's not a failure, it is the subject. 572 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,640 The shadow of the dome of pleasure floated midway on the waves. 573 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,920 Where was heard the mingled measure, from the fountain and the caves. 574 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,160 It was a miracle of rare device, 575 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,480 A sunny pleasure-dome with caves of ice! 576 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,480 For the Romantics, the creative process was something 577 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,200 mystical and elusive, it was sublime, it was almost God-like, 578 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,280 so, it wasn't all that surprising if things couldn't be finished. 579 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,520 In fact, it was testament to the power of imagination, 580 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,000 that shadowy realm of make-believe inside all our minds, 581 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,440 our heads, that you can never really tame, or transcribe, because, 582 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,240 ultimately, it remains forever measureless to man. 583 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,240 Another famous author left fragments behind him. 584 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:32,520 By the time that the modernist writer Franz Kafka died in 1924, 585 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,960 he's produced manuscripts of 3 novels, 586 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,400 The Castle, The Trial and Amerika, and not one of them complete. 587 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,280 He left the manuscripts in the hands of his friend Max Brod, 588 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,760 with instructions to burn them, which Brod ignored. 589 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,720 They're now regarded as masterpieces of 20th-century fiction, 590 00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:55,960 their fragmentary nature a reflection of an anxious 591 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,120 and uncertain modern world, where neat endings, or resolutions, 592 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,160 no longer had a place. 593 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,240 Obviously I'm relieved, for the sake of literary history, 594 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:08,280 that Brod disobeyed his instructions, 595 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,280 isn't there a bigger issue here? Coleridge and Gilbert Stuart, 596 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,560 they knowingly published their unfinished, fragmentary works, 597 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,760 but Kafka himself never intended his novels to be read. 598 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,200 It's pretty clear from everything we know about Kafka's life 599 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,320 that he wanted to have a career as a writer, 600 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,560 I suspect, and it was denied him. So, in those cases it's OK. 601 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,840 I think it is very different from, a writer dies inconveniently 602 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,800 to their family and their publisher, and so they just carry on, 603 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,960 in whatever way they possibly can. 604 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,560 I think with The Trial we have something different, 605 00:35:53,560 --> 00:36:01,680 because I think Kafka was, in some sense, deluded, 606 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,720 or at least hugely over-pessimistic about whether this thing 607 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,720 deserved to survive. I mean, that's the point, 608 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,960 he didn't think it deserved to survive, 609 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,960 and I think he's simply wrong about that. 610 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,120 So, that's OK then, Kafka just got it wrong, 611 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,760 we're all the beneficiaries of his misjudgement, 612 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,080 but what happens when artists or writers 613 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,400 suppress works that just aren't worthy of publication? 614 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,640 What should we do when we come across those? 615 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,040 I'm on my way to meet Dr Jean Moorcroft Wilson, 616 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,400 an academic who recently made an important discovery - 617 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,960 seven previously unpublished poems, 618 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,840 that could completely alter our understanding 619 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,720 of the First World War poet Siegfried Sassoon. 620 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,800 Sassoon, like his contemporary, Wilfred Owen, 621 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,960 has always been regarded as someone 622 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,320 who was against the glorification of war. 623 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,040 Instead, he felt compelled to present 624 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,080 its bleak truth to the world. 625 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,760 Sassoon arrived in the trenches in November 1915. 626 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,160 His first poem, The Redeemer, 627 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,600 gives a particularly unsparing account of life on the front line. 628 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,760 We lugged our clay-sucked boots as best we might along the trench. 629 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,400 Sometimes a bullet sang, 630 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,360 and droning shells burst with a hollow bang. 631 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,120 We were soaked, chilled and wretched, every one. 632 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,160 Darkness, the distant wink of a huge gun. 633 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,720 Dr Moorcroft Wilson's discovery was of a series of Sassoon's 634 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,360 unfinished poems that were out of character, to say the least. 635 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,080 One in particular, in contrast to his other work of the time, 636 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,760 depicts war very differently. 637 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,120 This one, Glory 1916, I think, was unpublished 638 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,160 partly because it was unfinished. 639 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,240 Certain decisions hadn't been made, 640 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:23,480 and certain lines have been duplicated with different versions. 641 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,360 But also because, he perhaps didn't want to be viewed as a man 642 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,040 who hadn't been firm in his movement towards anti-war poetry. 643 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,120 When you say they hadn't been published, 644 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,360 this is his own self-censorship, effectively? 645 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,360 He'd written these poems during the war, 646 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,400 and he'd deliberately decided to suppress the poems you've discovered? 647 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,840 That's all I can conclude. I don't know. 648 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,440 I can't... I'm not in Sassoon's mind. 649 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,120 But I would assume that that is the case, yes. 650 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,920 Because it's not a bad poem, in fact, it's a rather nice poem. 651 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,160 Can we have a look at it? 652 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,840 Yes, of course we can. 653 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,040 So this is a facsimile of the diary itself? 654 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,640 Yes. 655 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:09,120 This is a facsimile and the poem is opposite the entry for Jan 25th. 656 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,640 You and the winds ride out together. 657 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,440 Your company the world's great weather. 658 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,120 The clouds your plume. 659 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,360 The glittering sky a host of swords in harmony, 660 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,400 with the whole loveliness of light, 661 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,840 flung forth to lead you through the fight. 662 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,120 So he's been in the trenches at this point... 663 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,360 Yes, he's been in the trenches. 664 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,840 ..And he's written about the experience as in a poem, 665 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,560 like The Redeemer, which feels quite nightmarish, 666 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,240 and he's suddenly writing glorified war poems? 667 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,280 Yes, and he's comparing himself and his young companion, 668 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,680 who happens to be the man he's in love with in real life, 669 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,160 his young companion, to Sir Galahad. 670 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:53,040 So, here he is writing Glory 1916. I could hardly believe it! 671 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,200 I had imagined, in my simplicity, that the line 672 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,600 went from glorying war to criticising war, but it doesn't. 673 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,800 It goes backwards, forwards, backwards, forwards. 674 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,840 You're a far cry from a tabloid journalist 675 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,880 rummaging around in someone's bins, but in literary biography, 676 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,720 is this in any way similar? 677 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,680 Essentially, you've found these private notes and diaries 678 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,800 and poems which Sassoon didn't want to see the light of day, 679 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,880 and effectively you are championing them and bringing them out, 680 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,000 and allowing people to engage with them, read them, know them. 681 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,200 That's going to change our understanding of Sassoon. 682 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,200 Is that a morally right thing to do? 683 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,840 I think you're assuming that because he didn't want them published 684 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,600 means that he didn't want them seen. 685 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,760 I don't think he thought they were worthy of publication 686 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,440 because the others were perhaps better. 687 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,600 I think we're really only adding to our knowledge of Sassoon 688 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,280 when we publish this. 689 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,680 And don't forget we only do so with the permission of his family. 690 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,520 We like to think of our artists 691 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,840 and writers as following career trajectories as they develop. 692 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,320 But this suggests something very different. 693 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,360 As a biographer, I love the fact that it suggests something very different. 694 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,520 I much prefer it if he gives me a surprise. 695 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,640 And this gives me the sense that I don't know Sassoon 696 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,160 as thoroughly as I thought I did. 697 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,920 Good. I'm glad about that. 698 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,960 It means I can go on indefinitely writing biographies of Siegfried Sassoon. 699 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,000 You know, thinking about Siegfried Sassoon has made me reconsider 700 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,040 our whole attitude to unfinished works of art and literature. 701 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,120 Because the poem Glory 1916 to me, just seems to creak a bit. 702 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,000 All that Arthurian rhetoric just feels false 703 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,200 and fanciful compared to the blunt and much earthier power 704 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,840 of other poems from the same period like The Redeemer. 705 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,360 So perhaps Sassoon didn't want to publish it for a reason. 706 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,760 And perhaps we should respect those wishes? 707 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,000 Perhaps we don't automatically have the right to publish 708 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,280 an author's unfinished work after all. 709 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,960 I always argue for publishing art 710 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,440 even when it isn't as good as it might be. 711 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,920 There are two alternatives. 712 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,280 One is that we destroy it, 713 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,040 that we actually burn the manuscript ourselves, 714 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,600 in which case I think we're basically Nazis. 715 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,400 Or we lock it away in an archive 716 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,960 and what we say is only scholars can have access to it, 717 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,600 only the rich can have access to it 718 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,040 because they can get on a plane and fly across the world to the archive. 719 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,640 Or even if the archive becomes for sale, 720 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,840 then private collectors can have it and really lock it away. 721 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,040 So, actually publishing is a far more democratic mode 722 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,240 that says this will be available to anyone that can come up with a tenner 723 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,400 and then again we can make distinctions, 724 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,880 we can make judgement calls about what its value might be. 725 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:03,160 There is a tendency to think that the dead person would have wanted what most suits us. 726 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,200 For example, Ernest Hemingway. 727 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,880 Books have appeared posthumously 728 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,400 which he would never have imagined existing. 729 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,600 They come from collections of notes or things that he left unfinished 730 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,080 and somebody else has shaped them into a book. 731 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,760 I think you have to be so, so careful with that. 732 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,160 In fact, I think it is wrong 733 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,680 because that is a form of literary necrophilia 734 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,840 in which you are completely altering the shape of an artist's life. 735 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,800 Literary necrophilia could also describe the phenomenon 736 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,640 of extending a writer's body of work after their death. 737 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:56,000 I'm not talking about cobbling together notebooks or unfinished works. 738 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,800 I'm talking about hiring writers to create entirely new stories. 739 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,720 Recently, both Sherlock Holmes 740 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:08,400 and James Bond have been reincarnated to die another day. 741 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,240 Call me cynical but I'm assuming the reasons for extending franchises like that 742 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:24,320 are ultimately financial, commercial. 743 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,680 The man I want to ask about this is Jonny Geller, 744 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,200 a literary agent who works here in central London. 745 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,960 He looks after on of the biggest estates of them all, 746 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,400 that of Ian Fleming, author of James Bond. 747 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,240 MUSIC: "James Bond" by Scouting For Girls 748 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:41,760 # 007, Britain's finest secret agent, licensed to kill 749 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,320 # Mixing business with girls and thrills 750 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,680 # I've seen you walk the screen It's you that I adore 751 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,920 # Since I was a boy I've wanted to be like Roger Moore 752 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:02,000 # A girl in every port And gadgets up my sleeve 753 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,200 # The world is not enough For the both of us it seems 754 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,920 # So I wish I was James Bond Just for the day 755 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,200 # Kissing all the girls Blow the bad guys away... # 756 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,600 There's a tradition of inviting great writers to carry on the character 757 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,360 and the role of the estate and my help 758 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,000 is to try and keep the integrity of the character alive 759 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,640 with really the intention that people go back 760 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,640 to those great novels that he wrote. 761 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,360 Bond saw luck as a woman, to be softly wooed 762 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,240 or brutally ravaged, never pandered to or pursued. 763 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:48,200 But he was honest enough that he had never yet been made to suffer by cards or women. 764 00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,400 One day, he accepted the fact 765 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,440 he would be brought to his knees by love or by luck. 766 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,520 When you say "integrity of the character", do you mean 767 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,960 literally how we think about James Bond 768 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,400 or Ian Fleming's prose style? Because they could be slightly different things. 769 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,240 It's mixture of both. Ian Fleming's prose style - 770 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,240 so that it's not written in a completely different way 771 00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:16,760 because modern thrillers have a completely different tone and pace. 772 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,200 And the other side of it is would James Bond, 773 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:24,360 in the way Ian Fleming wrote it, have done this thing? 774 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,920 How consistent is that with the character? 775 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,160 How do you go about choosing the writers who become Ian Fleming? 776 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,200 Actually, fundamentally a love of Ian Fleming's writing. 777 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,080 There's no point just hiring someone who just thinks it'll be a good opportunity 778 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,520 because it will show through. 779 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,320 And every writer who has done the Ian Fleming continuation 780 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,800 including Charlie Higson who had a very successful series of Young Bond, 781 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,480 they grew up reading Ian Fleming and they love it. 782 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,120 That is genuine and it comes through in the writing. 783 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,080 You can't do this cynically, strangely. 784 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,000 Very often authors finish a work 785 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,320 and then find that their audiences, 786 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,360 their readerships won't let them finish it. 787 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,600 So, for instance, Conan Doyle kills Sherlock Holmes, 788 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:19,640 has him fall in a fatal embrace into the Reichenbach Falls with Professor Moriarty 789 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,400 But then of course the readership, the Holmesians, 790 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,240 those who feel that life is meaningless 791 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:32,320 unless they have the sleuth of 221B Baker Street, demand that he comes back. 792 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,520 So he's brought back from the dead. 793 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,920 Sherlock is another character who seems to resist endings. 794 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,160 Having survived his own fictional death, 795 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,000 and that of his creator Conan Doyle, he's back. 796 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,280 After almost a century, he's here again, 797 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,200 re-born in Anthony Horowitz's new Sherlock mystery, The House of Silk. 798 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,640 "Indeed, Watson. But there is one thing 799 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,520 "I would particularly like to know, 800 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,680 "for I am beginning to see great danger in this situation." 801 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,520 He glanced at the fountain of the stone figures in the frozen circle of water. 802 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,360 "I wonder if Mrs Catherine Carstairs is able to swim?" 803 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,280 It's interesting that Holmes, Bond, they're genre fiction. 804 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,920 Genre fiction, even more than literary fiction, 805 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,520 depends on the construction of believable characters. 806 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,520 It's always character-driven. 807 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,160 That means we get to know and like the characters. 808 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,080 We do not want them killed off. We are cross if they are killed off. 809 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,560 So, there's a kind of Houdini-like thing. 810 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,040 What does Conan Doyle have to do to kill Sherlock Holmes? 811 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,880 How deep an abyss does he have to fall into not to be able to crawl out again? 812 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,120 It's absolutely fascinating. 813 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,560 However completed a story be, we imagine what happens after it. 814 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,720 Imagining what happens after it 815 00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:07,600 is one of our most important responses to a story that has really gripped us. 816 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:13,280 You get to the end of The Odyssey and Odysseus is home 817 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,320 and he kills his rivals and he's back with his wife. 818 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,160 End of story. Perhaps the greatest story even told. 819 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,560 But for many people over the centuries, 820 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,200 it's not necessarily the end. 821 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,960 Tennyson wrote a wonderful poem, Ulysses. 822 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:34,400 Imagine what it would then be like for this epic hero after the end. 823 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,680 Because how could such a person settle down to suburban existence in Ithaca? 824 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,360 I feel quite nostalgic looking at these books in front of me. 825 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,600 I didn't actually own these precise copies when I was little 826 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,800 but they're representative of a particular genre I enjoyed. 827 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:57,520 Adventure books in which you, as a kid reading the book, shaped the narrative. 828 00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,400 So here are several examples. 829 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,480 And one of the big things about these books is that they have many different endings. 830 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,680 Loads of different endings, tens of different endings. 831 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,600 This one says choose from 28 endings. There's one here that has 39 endings. 832 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,720 There are as many as 42 endings. Look how small that book is. 833 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,680 It must be nothing but endings, in a sense. 834 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,320 I think part of the reason these appealed to me so much 835 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,160 is that... I'm trying to think of the purest, 836 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,840 most innocent aesthetic response you could have ever 837 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,600 and it would have been when you're reading a book as a kid 838 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:37,080 and you're utterly immersed in that imaginary world that the author has created 839 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:38,600 and you don't want it to end. 840 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,600 The beauty of these adventure books is that they never really did have to end. 841 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,920 You could almost anticipate when the narrative was trying to shape your response 842 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,560 and create an ending and you could defer it. 843 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,000 You could deliberately complicate the narrative 844 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,160 so that it would never come to a conclusion. 845 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,840 But, actually, as an adult these days it's no different. 846 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,280 Perhaps now the idea of never finishing, 847 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,920 never letting go of our favourite characters 848 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,400 is as hard-wired into our narrative expectations 849 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,720 as the need for endings and closure was in Dickens' time. 850 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,040 In fact, you begin to wonder if Dickens were alive today, 851 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,560 whether he would be allowed to finish ANYTHING 852 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,520 or, like the writers of the Archers or EastEnders, 853 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:38,720 he'd be forever delivering endings that set up new beginnings. 854 00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:40,960 One of the great unfinished works of art, 855 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,080 and obviously I would claim it as this, is Coronation Street. 856 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,840 That sense that you get the feeling it's never going to end. 857 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:52,520 Corrie, EastEnders, Brookside in its day 858 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,000 or Frasier, Friends, whatever it is. 859 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,440 The point about these are that they're people. 860 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,280 They become part of our lives, 861 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:07,160 we want them back and we won't let them go. 862 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,840 The television series promises the most, 863 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:19,040 I believe, remarkable expansion of the storytelling arts ever in history 864 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:25,160 and this ability to get it in a book or a box and download it 865 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,240 and watch at your convenience 866 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:35,560 and watch it season after season, hundreds of hours of material. 867 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,840 If the writers can create characters that are fascinating 868 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:45,520 and empathetic over a long period of years like that, 869 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,360 then the complexity of story will rival life. 870 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,920 Arguably the most influential TV drama series of the noughties, 871 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,800 described as the greatest pop culture masterpiece of its day, 872 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,440 The Sopranos was a story of everyday mafia folk. 873 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,280 Tony Soprano wrestled with the conflicting demands 874 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,960 of being a mobster as well as an ordinary family man. 875 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:17,800 The series lasted almost a decade before it ran out of steam. 876 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,360 Tony Soprano keeps fascinating us over and over 877 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,200 cos he's got relationships with his family, his professional family, 878 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,240 the FBI, the ducks on his pond, his psychiatrist, all of his mistresses. 879 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,920 And because of this incredible cast of characters, 880 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,160 Tony Soprano is endlessly surprising, 881 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,920 endlessly revealing. 882 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,800 And just when you think you know Tony Soprano, you really don't. 883 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,480 Until you do. 884 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,080 And when they reached that point after eight years, 885 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:55,160 he was exhausted. There was nothing left in Tony to expose. 886 00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,040 The series conclusion was feverishly anticipated. 887 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,000 Would Tony finally get clipped? 888 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,680 A mafia assassination seemed on the cards 889 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,400 but it was a show that continually defied expectations. 890 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,640 So what did happen to Tony Soprano? 891 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,520 Strangely, even after the final credits rolled, 892 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,840 many felt that the story was left unfinished. 893 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,840 Those craving some kind of conclusion, 894 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,160 which they felt they deserved after eight years of watching this particular programme. 895 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:27,920 They thought they didn't get it. 896 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,520 For those of us weaned on Twin Peaks and The Prisoner, 897 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,640 programmes like this that ended without ending 898 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,200 but in a funny sort of way opened up all sorts of possibilities, 899 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,880 it was the perfect happy ending. 900 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,400 I'm on my way to meet the British film director Mike Figgis 901 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,040 just to have a chat about that famously controversial ending of The Sopranos 902 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,680 because he directed a single episode in season five 903 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,480 and I'd love to hear his take. 904 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,560 I think he's... Ah, perfect. Thank you. He's just in here. 905 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,360 Thanks. 906 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,160 I mean, obviously you didn't direct the final episode, 907 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:09,520 but it's famously controversial and I'd love to hear your take on it. 908 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,160 Press play. 909 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,600 In the final scene, the Soprano family are due to meet for dinner in their favourite restaurant. 910 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,040 There's an uneasy sense, as there has been throughout the series, 911 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,520 that there may be a price to pay for Tony's violent Mafia lifestyle. 912 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:38,400 Despite the apparent normality of the diner, the camerawork suggests 913 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,760 that every character who swims into vision could be an assassin. 914 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,760 Mm, onion rings... 915 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:55,240 Because we'd been brought up on The Godfather and Scorsese's Mean Streets and all the rest of it, 916 00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:58,680 we understand the film genre called, you know, the Mafia. 917 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,520 We expect them to get it. 918 00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,800 And actually, given the history of The Sopranos, 919 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,840 we expect them to get it in the most horrifically bloodthirsty way. 920 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:15,160 The minute we see cars having a hard time parking, and backing in, 921 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,840 we expect a car bomb, or we expect someone to get out and go, 922 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,080 "Lady, can I give you a hand?" And then bombs through the window. 923 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,080 You know what the shot will look like. It'll be shattered glass, 924 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:26,600 blood sprayed on the glass. 925 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:32,480 There's only a small number of cliches about how Mafia killings are depicted in film. 926 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,280 As if the tension weren't ramped up enough, there's also the knowledge 927 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,520 that in a matter of minutes, the end must come 928 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,960 and the show must finish. 929 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,840 MUSIC: "Don't Stop Believing" by Journey 930 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,000 Focus on the good times. 931 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,440 Don't be sarcastic. 932 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,160 The song that is used at the end of the entire programme 933 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,160 is Don't Stop Believing, the Journey version. 934 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,800 And it actually ends on "don't stop". 935 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,760 You know, "stop" is the last word. And I do love that because it's using the classic example 936 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,120 of the song that would always be used for a big, joyous, climactic, 937 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,760 happy ending, closure, resolution. 938 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,200 But it's using it at the exact moment...well, the exact opposite. 939 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,760 # Street light people 940 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,720 # Oh-oh 941 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,320 # Don't stop... # 942 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,320 Whoa! 943 00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,880 I've never seen that before. 944 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,760 But I can see why it's controversial. 945 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,960 How much more satisfying that was in the long term. 946 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,720 Why is it more satisfying? Because we're still talking about it. 947 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,040 If you can come up with a device 948 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,440 where you, the writer, director and so on, the creators of this, 949 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,160 can take the audience to somewhere where, almost like they close the last minute, 950 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,000 then your imagination can continue with those characters. 951 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:54,280 And somewhere in that virtual film space, we can conjecture ourselves, 952 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,720 rather like reading a book, what may or may not have happened to all of them. 953 00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:04,200 # Somewhere in the night... # 954 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,120 So, is that it? 955 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,320 Today we have never-endings rather than conclusions. 956 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,960 I think so. I get the sense that in the 21st century, 957 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,840 we want to keep the story expanding and keep the conversation going. 958 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,400 # Don't stop believing 959 00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:27,360 # Hold on to that feeling 960 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:32,440 # Street light people 961 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,640 # Don't stop... # 962 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,240 # Street light people 963 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,520 # Oh-oh 964 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,760 # Don't stop believing 965 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,280 # Hold on to that feeling 966 00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,200 # Street light people... # 967 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,320 Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 86732

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