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- You might be under the impression
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that this is gonna be a
story about nostalgia.
3
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Well, you know, there's
a fair bit of that, okay,
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00:00:49,191 --> 00:00:52,941
but this story, the
story of Mystic Searches,
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nostalgia's just a prologue.
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In order to tell this story,
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I'm gonna have to play with
the chronology a little bit.
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I'm gonna have to dramatize some things.
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If that ends up leaving
you a little bit confused
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or frustrated, well then,
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we have adequately represented
exactly what it's like
12
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to program for the
Nintendo Entertainment System.
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Let's rewind two years
14
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to when I was visiting my childhood home
15
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in Central New York.
16
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It's rather bittersweet to be reminded
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of your humble origins.
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I was well aware that
this place was a mausoleum
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of foregone opportunities
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and a road map to a bunch of near misses.
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This was a repository of artifacts
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of long-abandoned aspirations.
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♪ It's amazing how the
colors seem to disappear ♪
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♪ It seems funny how
the wind seems to blow ♪
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♪ Through your hair ♪
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♪ Come here ♪
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♪ For a little while ♪
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♪ Your face ♪
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♪ I erase ♪
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- On the one hand, it
was a pleasant reminder
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of a simpler time, on the other,
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a reminder of once limitless,
now expired, potential.
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Now before you get the
wrong idea that I'm trying
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to solicit pity from you, in all fairness,
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this is the home that I was returning to.
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Okay, so I never became the big rock star.
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I never became the famous novelist.
38
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But I really couldn't complain.
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I lived in paradise.
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Had a nice job with a corner office.
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Found the girl.
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She's perfect, you know.
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Took the vows.
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Bought the house in the suburbs,
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and just to complete the cliche,
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got the cute, little dog.
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Life was good.
48
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It was crazy.
49
00:03:44,974 --> 00:03:47,557
There was so many sort of icons
50
00:03:49,094 --> 00:03:49,927
of nostalgia.
- Did you see
51
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all the old band stuff?
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- All the old band stuff
53
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and CDs--
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- And the old films that I've worked on,
55
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and all that stuff is just,
you know, a giant pile
56
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in the shed.
- Of course.
57
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- There was a surprise.
58
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I found, okay, so I know
you're gonna like this,
59
00:04:01,222 --> 00:04:02,662
'cause you're a huge Zelda nerd.
60
00:04:02,662 --> 00:04:04,767
I found all my old NES stuff
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00:04:04,767 --> 00:04:06,633
with the golden cartridge.
- Oh there's a booklet.
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00:04:06,633 --> 00:04:07,510
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Even cooler was right next to it,
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I found these old illustrations.
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00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,670
These are illustrations for
a video game for the NES
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that me and a neighborhood
kid had created.
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00:04:19,777 --> 00:04:21,910
- Yeah, so there's like
the items and the weapons,
68
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all the monsters, the
names, the characters, like,
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00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,080
as if this was a game manual, you know.
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- Yeah.
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- What was even crazier was--
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Oh, the school pictures.
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- My mom had all the school pictures,
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like right next to it, in this folder.
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And here's 1988.
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00:04:36,789 --> 00:04:38,360
- Oh my God.
- Second-grade,
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that's me--
- Look at you.
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00:04:39,643 --> 00:04:42,180
with the spiky hair.
- With the cool, spiky hair.
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This is Matt Juliano.
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This is the guy that I did all these with.
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- You did these drawings with him.
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- Yeah, yeah.
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- Oh my gosh.
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Do you still talk to him?
85
00:04:51,170 --> 00:04:53,982
- He moved away not
long after this picture.
86
00:04:53,982 --> 00:04:56,220
I haven't probably talked
to him in 20-25 years.
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00:04:56,220 --> 00:04:57,902
- You should find him.
88
00:04:57,902 --> 00:05:00,398
- Thanks to the significant
advances in telecommunications
89
00:05:00,398 --> 00:05:01,881
since the last time I'd seen him,
90
00:05:01,881 --> 00:05:03,441
it only took a search
or two on social media
91
00:05:03,441 --> 00:05:04,793
to track him down.
92
00:05:04,793 --> 00:05:07,807
Turned out, we live pretty parallel lives,
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00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:11,339
both ended up in Florida, both musicians.
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It's really exciting to
get to catch up with him
95
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over a couple of drinks and a jam session.
96
00:05:14,303 --> 00:05:16,043
It was only a matter of
time until the subject
97
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of those game ideas came up.
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Do you remember anything?
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00:05:19,523 --> 00:05:20,960
Do you remember?
100
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,779
- Yeah, I vaguely remember
some of the drawings.
101
00:05:22,779 --> 00:05:25,504
I do distinctly remember writing a letter.
102
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- Wasn't it something along the lines
103
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of like send us the stuff,
so we can make our own game?
104
00:05:29,043 --> 00:05:30,154
- Yeah, if I remember--
105
00:05:30,154 --> 00:05:31,968
Matt and Joe,
age eight or whatever,
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like, literally writing it in pencil.
107
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- It was like a blank cartridge
108
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and all the other stuff you need.
109
00:05:36,197 --> 00:05:37,786
I remember your mom kind of looking at us,
110
00:05:37,786 --> 00:05:42,226
and in retrospect, she kind
of smirked and was like,
111
00:05:42,226 --> 00:05:44,737
"I could stop these kids'
hopes, but I'm not going to.
112
00:05:44,737 --> 00:05:46,877
"We're gonna see how this plays out."
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I remember her being very helpful,
114
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like helping us with he
postage and all of that.
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00:05:50,505 --> 00:05:53,299
- So after we sent the
letter, every day that summer,
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me and Matt, we sat around, and we waited
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for the delivery trucks.
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Every day, we waited for the mail,
119
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'cause we knew that one of those days,
120
00:05:59,565 --> 00:06:02,293
the space age computers were
going to arrive from Nintendo,
121
00:06:02,293 --> 00:06:03,737
and it was gonna help us make our game,
122
00:06:03,737 --> 00:06:05,561
and we were just gonna
intrinsically know how to use them.
123
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That didn't happen.
124
00:06:06,834 --> 00:06:09,265
No, we instead got a little form letter,
125
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much like this one.
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Basically said stay in
school, don't do drugs,
127
00:06:12,982 --> 00:06:15,805
do good in math, and
you know, unfortunately,
128
00:06:15,805 --> 00:06:18,657
Nintendo of America cannot
take unsolicited game ideas.
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How soul crushing, right?
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The ideas got indefinitely
filed away in the shed
131
00:06:22,759 --> 00:06:25,417
in my backyard, but now 30 years older,
132
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and at least a little
wiser, I had to wonder.
133
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What would it take to actually
bring this game to life?
134
00:06:31,369 --> 00:06:33,485
Cue Austin Mckinley, production partner,
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00:06:33,485 --> 00:06:36,048
fellow filmmaker and
tremendous illustrator
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who actually had experience
working in games.
137
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As someone whose creative
input I'd come to value,
138
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I was curious.
139
00:06:43,101 --> 00:06:44,585
As an artist, what
would he think of trying
140
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to revive a juvenile ambition like this.
141
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I found these illustrations for a game
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that I'd created for the
Nintendo Entertainment System
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when I was like eight years old.
144
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!
- Illustrations
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and maps of the world--
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- Oh, that's awesome.
- Levels and descriptions
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of characters and all this other stuff.
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Would you be interested in
embarking on a crazy adventure
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to appease my eight-year-old's
ambition .
150
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♪ Seeing deception ♪
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♪ A half life minus ♪
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♪ A segment, a blunder ♪
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♪ Objective protection ♪
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♪ It's a sexual time ♪
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♪ Paid for a product backwards ♪
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♪ It's selection time ♪
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♪ Final lesson ♪
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- I mean, you know, in a very sort of
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literal way.
- Literal translation,
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yeah, yeah.
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Even the details, you
know, under the trees and--
162
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,941
- Uh-huh, that's really gratifying.
163
00:08:03,941 --> 00:08:06,992
I love the lightning
striking the crystal ball.
164
00:08:06,992 --> 00:08:10,583
That seems very eight
years old, ppp-choeww!
165
00:08:10,583 --> 00:08:11,943
- It seems like an '80s cartoon.
166
00:08:11,943 --> 00:08:13,383
I mean, it looks like an '80s cartoon.
167
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- For sure.
168
00:08:14,216 --> 00:08:16,832
So I mean, is this the
game that you want to make?
169
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Do you want to keep going on this or what?
170
00:08:20,183 --> 00:08:21,822
- It would be cool to
see the world realized,
171
00:08:21,822 --> 00:08:26,166
but at the same time, without
it actually on a cartridge.
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It's almost not worth it, you know.
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It's, it's, I don't know.
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00:08:29,092 --> 00:08:30,633
- Well, now that you actually, probably,
175
00:08:30,633 --> 00:08:33,537
can find all, quote, the stuff you need
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to make the game, it's
probably doable now, right.
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00:08:38,844 --> 00:08:39,784
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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00:08:39,784 --> 00:08:43,617
- So actually try and
make it for a cartridge.
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I don't even know where
to start with that.
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- It's got to be doable.
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00:08:49,714 --> 00:08:52,244
If you do it, I'll go out
and buy an NES right now.
182
00:08:54,975 --> 00:08:59,040
- So what we're talking
about is a complete game
183
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,207
for an unfamiliar console,
programming our own game engine.
184
00:09:04,408 --> 00:09:07,516
My concern is, on more than one occasion,
185
00:09:07,516 --> 00:09:10,768
I've spent a year of
my life building assets
186
00:09:10,768 --> 00:09:12,508
for a game that never ships.
187
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I want to make sure that
188
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if we commit to this, that we have a plan
189
00:09:17,771 --> 00:09:20,202
for how we're gonna take it to completion.
190
00:09:22,228 --> 00:09:24,485
What if we got a team,
191
00:09:24,485 --> 00:09:26,316
a team of professional artists,
192
00:09:26,316 --> 00:09:28,536
modern-day, professional artists,
193
00:09:28,536 --> 00:09:31,943
and force them to retrofit their skills
194
00:09:31,943 --> 00:09:34,644
into something that will fit
within the NES constraints?
195
00:09:34,644 --> 00:09:37,716
Could we make a compelling
game experience,
196
00:09:37,716 --> 00:09:39,515
despite the limitations?
197
00:09:39,515 --> 00:09:41,872
So we compiled a list of people we knew.
198
00:09:41,872 --> 00:09:44,196
Elizabeth Wilson, published novelist.
199
00:09:44,196 --> 00:09:45,263
Hmm, certainly knows how
200
00:09:45,263 --> 00:09:46,738
to craft a fantasy narrative.
201
00:09:46,738 --> 00:09:47,864
Does she know
anything about games, though?
202
00:09:47,864 --> 00:09:48,716
Doubt it.
203
00:09:48,716 --> 00:09:50,204
But it might actually be a good thing,
204
00:09:50,204 --> 00:09:51,236
because she wouldn't fall
205
00:09:51,236 --> 00:09:53,378
into the same gaming narrative tropes
206
00:09:53,378 --> 00:09:55,070
that you or I might.
207
00:09:55,070 --> 00:09:56,978
- You know, we could get Josh Fallon
208
00:09:56,978 --> 00:09:58,198
to maybe help on the hardware side.
209
00:09:58,198 --> 00:10:00,493
- Oh, vagabond coder, that's appropriate.
210
00:10:01,326 --> 00:10:02,401
- Well, you know, I mean, he used to work
211
00:10:02,401 --> 00:10:04,460
on microcontrollers and stuff
like that, back in the day.
212
00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:05,533
- Yeah, yeah.
213
00:10:05,533 --> 00:10:07,261
- Does that skill set even translate
214
00:10:07,261 --> 00:10:08,992
to what we're talking about here?
215
00:10:08,992 --> 00:10:09,825
There was Matt,
216
00:10:09,825 --> 00:10:11,251
who was probably the only
other person on Earth
217
00:10:11,251 --> 00:10:13,427
who had a creative
investment in the project,
218
00:10:13,427 --> 00:10:18,363
plus a lot of friends with a
broad array of creative skills.
219
00:10:18,363 --> 00:10:20,190
Together, we were a team of talented
220
00:10:20,190 --> 00:10:22,727
and accomplished creative
professionals who,
221
00:10:22,727 --> 00:10:25,757
in this case, had zero
idea of what we were doing.
222
00:10:25,757 --> 00:10:26,987
Elizabeth was slightly concerned,
223
00:10:26,987 --> 00:10:28,622
'cause she'd recently
found out she was pregnant,
224
00:10:28,622 --> 00:10:29,995
but I assured her we'd be plenty done
225
00:10:29,995 --> 00:10:31,129
by the time the baby came.
226
00:10:31,129 --> 00:10:33,921
And Josh, he was concerned,
'cause he lived pretty far away,
227
00:10:33,921 --> 00:10:36,750
but I told him, you know, we
could collaborate remotely.
228
00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:38,253
Matt wasn't sure exactly
how he could help,
229
00:10:38,253 --> 00:10:40,729
but I told him I really
wanted him involved.
230
00:10:40,729 --> 00:10:42,888
All in all, everyone was
legitimately excited.
231
00:10:42,888 --> 00:10:44,121
I was surprised.
232
00:10:44,121 --> 00:10:46,505
But one question kept coming up.
233
00:10:46,505 --> 00:10:49,770
Exactly who was the audience
for a game like this?
234
00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:52,442
Okay, take a modern
game studio like Bungie,
235
00:10:52,442 --> 00:10:54,509
thousands of employees,
millions of dollars
236
00:10:54,509 --> 00:10:56,201
in each project's budget.
237
00:10:56,201 --> 00:10:57,060
They worked on equipment
238
00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:58,441
that looks straight
out of science fiction.
239
00:10:58,441 --> 00:11:01,121
They recorded soundtracks
with full symphony orchestras.
240
00:11:01,121 --> 00:11:02,876
They created photorealistic experiences
241
00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:05,233
using motion capture.
242
00:11:05,233 --> 00:11:06,853
Now for reference, compare that
243
00:11:06,853 --> 00:11:10,061
to the average independent
homebrew studio,
244
00:11:10,061 --> 00:11:12,253
spare bedrooms and dark attics
245
00:11:12,253 --> 00:11:15,177
and unfinished basements
and cramped storage units,
246
00:11:15,177 --> 00:11:18,427
and in some cases, cleared-out garages.
247
00:11:19,676 --> 00:11:21,941
How could any developer hope to compete,
248
00:11:21,941 --> 00:11:24,837
and more important,
why would they want to?
249
00:11:24,837 --> 00:11:26,593
Well, it turns out there was
a whole underground community
250
00:11:26,593 --> 00:11:29,321
that did this, so I asked them.
251
00:11:29,321 --> 00:11:30,778
- Video game industry started out back
252
00:11:30,778 --> 00:11:32,448
in the '70s and the '80s.
253
00:11:32,448 --> 00:11:36,660
It was a bunch of hackers
and computer geeks.
254
00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:40,768
The roots of the industry
are not any different
255
00:11:40,768 --> 00:11:44,068
than indie development right here and now.
256
00:11:44,068 --> 00:11:47,645
- When I was between eight to about 11,
257
00:11:47,645 --> 00:11:49,912
me and my buddies, on the
playground, of course,
258
00:11:49,912 --> 00:11:52,891
we were always throwing
around ideas for games.
259
00:11:52,891 --> 00:11:56,700
It's where I first decided
I wanted to be a programmer.
260
00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,460
It's because I wanted to
make games for the NES.
261
00:12:00,460 --> 00:12:02,653
- There was sort of an
all-permeating thing, you know.
262
00:12:02,653 --> 00:12:04,973
We'd take manuals on the bus to read,
263
00:12:04,973 --> 00:12:07,029
and so a natural
extension of that was just
264
00:12:07,029 --> 00:12:08,849
to start sort of making up our own stuff.
265
00:12:08,849 --> 00:12:11,865
- Back then, you're just drawing it up.
266
00:12:11,865 --> 00:12:14,493
You're just like, "If
I ever could do this."
267
00:12:14,493 --> 00:12:17,316
But you never, back then, ever imagined
268
00:12:17,316 --> 00:12:18,910
that you would have been able to.
269
00:12:18,910 --> 00:12:20,942
- In the end, it doesn't
matter that it's not
270
00:12:20,942 --> 00:12:22,135
on some kind of app.
271
00:12:22,135 --> 00:12:24,718
It doesn't matter that it's
not on the newer-age console.
272
00:12:24,718 --> 00:12:27,674
It doesn't matter that it
doesn't reach the masses.
273
00:12:27,674 --> 00:12:29,908
When I'm, like, programming
for the Nintendo,
274
00:12:29,908 --> 00:12:30,958
I'm doing it for me.
275
00:12:30,958 --> 00:12:34,791
So I want it on the
cartridge, and in the box,
276
00:12:36,014 --> 00:12:39,134
like the Nintendo that
we all grew up with.
277
00:12:39,134 --> 00:12:40,470
That's where I want to create.
278
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:41,675
- 'Cause we grew up playing these games
279
00:12:41,675 --> 00:12:44,359
and remember how much we love
them, and we still love them,
280
00:12:44,359 --> 00:12:47,074
and we want to feel like we're part of it
281
00:12:47,074 --> 00:12:49,383
in a really intimate way
by actually making a game
282
00:12:49,383 --> 00:12:51,963
for the system we loved so much.
283
00:12:51,963 --> 00:12:53,915
- Okay, if we're going to go to the work
284
00:12:53,915 --> 00:12:56,568
of putting it on the actual system,
285
00:12:56,568 --> 00:13:01,128
there needs to be a reason
to do it more than nostalgia.
286
00:13:01,128 --> 00:13:02,823
So there are homebrewers
that are doing this,
287
00:13:02,823 --> 00:13:06,990
but is anybody doing it for
a larger artistic purpose,
288
00:13:07,923 --> 00:13:09,722
just than because they
grew up on that system,
289
00:13:09,722 --> 00:13:11,163
and they loved it?
290
00:13:11,163 --> 00:13:13,535
- There's something to be
said about the preservation
291
00:13:13,535 --> 00:13:16,210
of the art of creating these games
292
00:13:16,210 --> 00:13:17,501
that's going to be lost.
293
00:13:17,501 --> 00:13:19,316
We might always have the game,
294
00:13:19,316 --> 00:13:22,874
but we're gonna lose the art
of how that game is made.
295
00:13:22,874 --> 00:13:25,880
- I read an article recently
where they were discussing,
296
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,212
like, as how do companies preserve
297
00:13:29,212 --> 00:13:30,740
their development history.
298
00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:31,820
And a lot of companies don't.
299
00:13:31,820 --> 00:13:33,148
They throw it all away.
300
00:13:33,148 --> 00:13:36,524
And people may forget, like,
how these games were made.
301
00:13:36,524 --> 00:13:39,988
So the homebrew scene kind
of reignites that interest
302
00:13:39,988 --> 00:13:41,668
in how these games were made.
303
00:13:41,668 --> 00:13:43,216
Inside of a humble storage unit
304
00:13:43,216 --> 00:13:46,377
in suburban Texas was the
home of Piko Interactive,
305
00:13:46,377 --> 00:13:48,504
an independent game
studio that specialized
306
00:13:48,504 --> 00:13:52,049
in post-market development
for consoles like the NES.
307
00:13:52,049 --> 00:13:56,216
- I was born in a really
small region in North Mexico.
308
00:13:58,188 --> 00:14:02,355
Mexico is a very religious
country, extremely religious.
309
00:14:03,425 --> 00:14:05,057
Everything was satanic.
310
00:14:05,057 --> 00:14:06,996
You know, oh, Spider-Man, satanic.
311
00:14:06,996 --> 00:14:08,097
Mickey Mouse, satanic.
312
00:14:08,097 --> 00:14:08,930
It was the devil.
313
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:10,396
And you can see the horns, you know,
314
00:14:10,396 --> 00:14:11,527
all that crazy stuff.
315
00:14:11,527 --> 00:14:14,145
My parents got into a
state where, you know,
316
00:14:14,145 --> 00:14:18,554
Zelda, it's a satanic game,
and you cannot play it.
317
00:14:18,554 --> 00:14:22,721
And that led into me being
banned from playing video games
318
00:14:23,828 --> 00:14:26,026
for like five, six years.
319
00:14:26,026 --> 00:14:27,297
And maybe being banned
320
00:14:27,297 --> 00:14:29,036
from playing those games
all those years led him
321
00:14:29,036 --> 00:14:32,657
to what he did now, which
was saving lost games.
322
00:14:32,657 --> 00:14:34,577
- There are other games
that were developed back
323
00:14:34,577 --> 00:14:37,344
in Nintendo's lifetime,
back in the '80s and '90s,
324
00:14:37,344 --> 00:14:38,507
that were canceled,
325
00:14:38,507 --> 00:14:41,726
and they were never commercially
released, officially.
326
00:14:41,726 --> 00:14:45,275
So what we do is we find the IP owners,
327
00:14:45,275 --> 00:14:48,686
intellectual property
owners, of those games
328
00:14:48,686 --> 00:14:51,907
and then acquire the rights
to finally publish them.
329
00:14:51,907 --> 00:14:54,536
There are some games out
there, really good games,
330
00:14:54,536 --> 00:14:57,856
that they should have been released.
331
00:14:57,856 --> 00:15:00,755
If we don't look for them,
they're gonna be lost forever,
332
00:15:00,755 --> 00:15:03,576
and they're not gonna be
able to be appreciated.
333
00:15:03,576 --> 00:15:05,456
Piko Interactive
wasn't the only company
334
00:15:05,456 --> 00:15:09,539
developing new NES games
with altruistic motives.
335
00:15:10,406 --> 00:15:13,627
- So we released Germ
Squashers, this past January,
336
00:15:13,627 --> 00:15:16,406
and raised $5,000 the first month alone
337
00:15:16,406 --> 00:15:17,907
for the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh.
338
00:15:17,907 --> 00:15:19,016
- And one of the stories that I heard was
339
00:15:19,016 --> 00:15:22,075
about a child who had special needs.
340
00:15:22,075 --> 00:15:25,075
He needs to get injections routinely
341
00:15:28,578 --> 00:15:29,777
because of his disability.
342
00:15:29,777 --> 00:15:31,402
And he was terrified of them.
343
00:15:31,402 --> 00:15:33,769
He was a big fan of old games and stuff.
344
00:15:33,769 --> 00:15:35,509
And he saw Germ Squashers,
345
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:39,469
and the next time he had
to go in for an injection,
346
00:15:39,469 --> 00:15:41,433
he was like all excited,
347
00:15:41,433 --> 00:15:43,081
'cause he had to go get his Germ Squasher,
348
00:15:43,081 --> 00:15:45,872
'cause that's what they used
to fight the germs in the game,
349
00:15:45,872 --> 00:15:47,611
which was kind of the
idea behind the game,
350
00:15:47,611 --> 00:15:50,114
was to help kids sort of cope
351
00:15:50,114 --> 00:15:52,155
with the idea of having, to get injections
352
00:15:52,155 --> 00:15:56,147
to treat certain
illnesses or disabilities.
353
00:15:56,147 --> 00:15:58,592
- So back in the '80s, it
took a very specific type
354
00:15:58,592 --> 00:15:59,989
of person to make a game.
355
00:15:59,989 --> 00:16:02,509
They were your
mathematicians and engineers.
356
00:16:02,509 --> 00:16:05,269
Today, virtually anybody can make a game,
357
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:07,593
and because of that, the reasons
358
00:16:07,593 --> 00:16:09,093
for making games have changed.
359
00:16:09,093 --> 00:16:12,181
Anybody who has something
they want to share,
360
00:16:12,181 --> 00:16:13,893
they can do that through gaming.
361
00:16:13,893 --> 00:16:15,572
Reasons for
creating games had evolved
362
00:16:15,572 --> 00:16:16,877
over the last 30 years.
363
00:16:16,877 --> 00:16:20,829
Take Rachel, college professor
and NES homebrew developer.
364
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:24,005
- When we were younger, we
probably weren't thinking
365
00:16:24,005 --> 00:16:27,688
that hard about ,
about games, in terms of, like,
366
00:16:27,688 --> 00:16:30,646
is this problematic, or is
there a little issue with it,
367
00:16:30,646 --> 00:16:33,588
or does this align with
my personal values?
368
00:16:33,588 --> 00:16:36,124
Like, I don't think maybe
we were always thinking
369
00:16:36,124 --> 00:16:39,076
about that when we were, you
know, seven or eight years old.
370
00:16:39,076 --> 00:16:41,164
You know, at the time, I
saw the NES as very much
371
00:16:41,164 --> 00:16:42,304
like a boy's toy.
372
00:16:42,304 --> 00:16:44,884
What are, like, the
really girly
373
00:16:44,884 --> 00:16:46,648
You've got Barbie.
374
00:16:46,648 --> 00:16:48,593
You've got Dance Aerobics.
375
00:16:48,593 --> 00:16:52,152
And maybe you can say the
Little Mermaid, as well.
376
00:16:52,152 --> 00:16:53,904
I think that just about does it.
377
00:16:53,904 --> 00:16:57,324
That's out of a library of 700-plus games.
378
00:16:57,324 --> 00:16:58,464
And not only was Rachel one
379
00:16:58,464 --> 00:17:00,520
of the only female NES programmers I know
380
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,318
to have ever existed, her reasons
381
00:17:02,318 --> 00:17:06,220
for creating NES games went
beyond simple entertainment.
382
00:17:06,220 --> 00:17:07,556
- I like showing these works
383
00:17:07,556 --> 00:17:10,840
in sort of, I guess, atypical setups,
384
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,889
maybe in gallery spaces, or
I've done a lot of art shows
385
00:17:14,889 --> 00:17:16,023
and things like that.
386
00:17:16,023 --> 00:17:19,308
We can think of the NES
game as, not just a game,
387
00:17:19,308 --> 00:17:21,200
but also a cultural artifact.
388
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,604
Take all these sort of
artifacts and aesthetic language
389
00:17:24,604 --> 00:17:27,648
from the '80s and '90s
that are really associated
390
00:17:27,648 --> 00:17:31,352
with ultra-femininity and
then put them on the NES.
391
00:17:31,352 --> 00:17:34,712
And I think when you see those
things in stark contrast,
392
00:17:34,712 --> 00:17:37,589
we see how unusual they are together.
393
00:17:37,589 --> 00:17:40,040
You do start asking questions
like, "Oh yeah, that is weird.
394
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,904
"I never noticed that video game nostalgia
395
00:17:42,904 --> 00:17:46,500
"and retro game culture doesn't pick up
396
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,674
"on also other '80s and '90s retro stuff
397
00:17:49,674 --> 00:17:52,442
"that was maybe more targeted to girls."
398
00:17:52,442 --> 00:17:54,017
Of course, there
were also homebrew developers
399
00:17:54,017 --> 00:17:58,397
whose motivations ran much
more parallel to my own.
400
00:17:58,397 --> 00:17:59,417
- Back when I was young,
401
00:17:59,417 --> 00:18:01,756
I definitely liked the
Mega Man games a whole lot.
402
00:18:01,756 --> 00:18:04,809
I drew a couple of robot ideas on paper
403
00:18:04,809 --> 00:18:06,505
with colored pencils and pen.
404
00:18:06,505 --> 00:18:09,773
And then I submitted the
ideas to Nintendo America.
405
00:18:09,773 --> 00:18:12,078
I'm not very good of an
artist, but I thought,
406
00:18:12,078 --> 00:18:14,809
"Well, maybe they can see the
conceptual ideas of these."
407
00:18:14,809 --> 00:18:16,154
Nintendo actually looked at it.
408
00:18:16,154 --> 00:18:18,513
They're like, "Oh yeah,
thank you for these ideas,
409
00:18:18,513 --> 00:18:19,609
"but no, thank you."
410
00:18:19,609 --> 00:18:21,090
And then they sent them back to me.
411
00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:23,244
- As a storytelling medium,
which games have become,
412
00:18:23,244 --> 00:18:24,971
you know, why was this
a story that you felt
413
00:18:24,971 --> 00:18:26,579
that you wanted to tell?
414
00:18:26,579 --> 00:18:28,919
- It's just a story about the little guy
415
00:18:28,919 --> 00:18:32,711
is conquering the big guy, so to speak.
416
00:18:32,711 --> 00:18:33,881
- The other thing that I'm wondering,
417
00:18:33,881 --> 00:18:35,367
and this might be a
little late in the game
418
00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:39,087
to bring this up, but is just developing
419
00:18:39,087 --> 00:18:42,867
for a console like this, is it even legal?
420
00:18:44,044 --> 00:18:48,438
I mean, if we were developing
for Apple or a modern console,
421
00:18:48,438 --> 00:18:51,481
we'd need to have permission
and be licensed as--
422
00:18:51,481 --> 00:18:53,107
Maybe I should ask
my attorney that ,
423
00:18:53,107 --> 00:18:55,791
before we make an assumption.
424
00:18:55,791 --> 00:18:58,302
And what's funny is even my
attorney had a personal anecdote
425
00:18:58,302 --> 00:18:59,382
about the NES.
426
00:18:59,382 --> 00:19:01,173
- My son grew up on this system.
427
00:19:01,173 --> 00:19:04,461
And every day, we'd play Ninja
Turtles for hours on end.
428
00:19:04,461 --> 00:19:05,730
That was our ritual.
429
00:19:05,730 --> 00:19:07,521
That was our bonding experience.
430
00:19:07,521 --> 00:19:10,489
When we talked about the
game, even at that age,
431
00:19:10,489 --> 00:19:13,641
five, six years old, it was in the context
432
00:19:13,641 --> 00:19:16,038
of how do you make this,
how did this thing work,
433
00:19:16,038 --> 00:19:17,793
who designed it and so forth.
434
00:19:17,793 --> 00:19:19,941
And by high school, he was programming.
435
00:19:19,941 --> 00:19:22,565
Today, he's the lead software
engineer at Blue Origin
436
00:19:22,565 --> 00:19:25,400
for the BE-3 rocket engine.
437
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,889
- So an interest in the NES led
438
00:19:27,889 --> 00:19:30,169
to your son's future profession,
439
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:31,473
literally a rocket scientist.
- Now he's a rocket,
440
00:19:31,473 --> 00:19:33,233
literally, he's a rocket scientist.
441
00:19:33,233 --> 00:19:36,893
- This post-market development
team, is this legal?
442
00:19:36,893 --> 00:19:39,161
Is this something that's acceptable?
443
00:19:39,161 --> 00:19:41,665
- Patent law seems to be
not an issue at this point,
444
00:19:41,665 --> 00:19:43,961
because the hardware patents have expired.
445
00:19:43,961 --> 00:19:45,429
But you still have trademark.
446
00:19:45,429 --> 00:19:47,125
You still have copyright issues.
447
00:19:47,125 --> 00:19:48,533
You could have trade secret issues.
448
00:19:48,533 --> 00:19:50,921
So any of those could be
a factor in any of this.
449
00:19:50,921 --> 00:19:53,586
- Personal opinion, I mean, is this,
450
00:19:53,586 --> 00:19:55,705
should we pursue this?
451
00:19:55,705 --> 00:19:56,885
Should we do this?
452
00:19:56,885 --> 00:20:00,560
- Personally, it's a
great, great, great idea.
453
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,037
Please understand Nintendo is notorious
454
00:20:03,037 --> 00:20:04,881
for going after fan projects.
455
00:20:04,881 --> 00:20:06,861
So tread very, very lightly.
456
00:20:08,571 --> 00:20:09,561
It was true.
457
00:20:09,561 --> 00:20:11,523
We even had friends whose
fan projects had been victims
458
00:20:11,523 --> 00:20:14,813
of Nintendo's infamous
cease-and-desist order.
459
00:20:14,813 --> 00:20:15,845
Even though we were dealing
460
00:20:15,845 --> 00:20:17,165
with our own intellectual property,
461
00:20:17,165 --> 00:20:20,001
the threat sort of loomed
like an ominous shadow.
462
00:20:20,001 --> 00:20:21,740
But even besides potential entanglements
463
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:23,703
with Nintendo's legal department,
464
00:20:23,703 --> 00:20:24,833
there were pragmatic problems
465
00:20:24,833 --> 00:20:27,750
with bringing this project to life.
466
00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:34,805
- You know, I was thinking,
467
00:20:34,805 --> 00:20:36,305
there's a reason the game companies
468
00:20:36,305 --> 00:20:39,905
stopped manufacturing these things.
469
00:20:39,905 --> 00:20:41,360
Assuming we sell more than 10,
470
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,475
we're gonna have to get
these mass produced.
471
00:20:43,475 --> 00:20:46,805
We're gonna have to get
them, like, injection-molded,
472
00:20:46,805 --> 00:20:50,416
print the labels, ship
whatever this weighs.
473
00:20:50,416 --> 00:20:51,585
That's not gonna be cheap.
474
00:20:51,585 --> 00:20:55,126
We might want to start
thinking about crowdfunding.
475
00:20:55,126 --> 00:20:57,557
- So to raise funds, we
turned to Kickstarter,
476
00:20:57,557 --> 00:20:58,543
and we set out on a quest
477
00:20:58,543 --> 00:21:01,621
to find other like-minded,
eight-bit-loving miscreants.
478
00:21:03,214 --> 00:21:04,629
My first reconnaissance mission was
479
00:21:04,629 --> 00:21:08,033
to The Strong Museum of
Play, in Rochester, New York.
480
00:21:08,033 --> 00:21:10,509
They had a complete
installation devoted solely
481
00:21:10,509 --> 00:21:11,949
to the 30th anniversary
482
00:21:11,949 --> 00:21:14,093
of the Nintendo Entertainment System.
483
00:21:14,093 --> 00:21:16,073
I was invited down to the
archives in the basement.
484
00:21:16,073 --> 00:21:17,977
Now the best way I could
describe this place
485
00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:19,809
is the gamer's equivalent of the warehouse
486
00:21:19,809 --> 00:21:22,214
at the end of Raiders of
the Lost Ark, you know,
487
00:21:22,214 --> 00:21:24,942
antiques and rarities stretching
out as far as you could see
488
00:21:24,942 --> 00:21:27,778
in every direction, prototypes
and unreleased games,
489
00:21:27,778 --> 00:21:31,278
all collected in the name of preservation.
490
00:21:32,566 --> 00:21:35,802
So do you think, I mean,
as a curator for a museum
491
00:21:35,802 --> 00:21:38,035
that collects these relics of video games
492
00:21:38,035 --> 00:21:39,679
and things like that, do
you think there's value
493
00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:41,929
in post
494
00:21:42,823 --> 00:21:44,716
Is that something you're
interested in preserving?
495
00:21:44,716 --> 00:21:46,704
Is that worth preserving?
496
00:21:46,704 --> 00:21:48,123
- Yeah, if you're telling the long history
497
00:21:48,123 --> 00:21:49,323
of something like the NES,
498
00:21:49,323 --> 00:21:51,575
there are really two things
I think you're going for
499
00:21:51,575 --> 00:21:53,419
when you're collecting as a museum.
500
00:21:53,419 --> 00:21:55,999
One are things that tell you something
501
00:21:55,999 --> 00:21:57,676
about how it developed.
502
00:21:57,676 --> 00:21:59,567
It could be key milestones in the system.
503
00:21:59,567 --> 00:22:02,100
It could be every game
they created for it.
504
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,247
But then you also want
to get at its impact
505
00:22:04,247 --> 00:22:07,170
on human experience and personal lives.
506
00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:10,399
The fact that someone is
creating a game, 30 years later,
507
00:22:10,399 --> 00:22:13,075
for a system that's not
longer being sold tells you
508
00:22:13,075 --> 00:22:17,242
how important this game
system was in the first place.
509
00:22:19,041 --> 00:22:20,859
Meanwhile, Austin
traveled to the West Coast
510
00:22:20,859 --> 00:22:22,749
to visit our friends at IGN.
511
00:22:22,749 --> 00:22:24,339
Now you could tell by the studio's decor
512
00:22:24,339 --> 00:22:26,588
that they appreciated
both the modern games
513
00:22:26,588 --> 00:22:29,771
and the retro experiences equally.
514
00:22:29,771 --> 00:22:30,911
- These are our living history.
515
00:22:30,911 --> 00:22:32,199
It's part of our heritage.
516
00:22:32,199 --> 00:22:34,746
We don't stop playing instruments just
517
00:22:34,746 --> 00:22:36,421
because something comes along
that's more sophisticated.
518
00:22:36,421 --> 00:22:38,617
People didn't stop
playing acoustic guitars,
519
00:22:38,617 --> 00:22:40,196
because electric guitars were invented.
520
00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:41,768
We have more sophisticated hardware,
521
00:22:41,768 --> 00:22:45,935
bur more sophisticated does
not necessarily mean better.
522
00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:51,212
A quick internet search
for Nintendo Homebrew led us
523
00:22:51,212 --> 00:22:52,544
to a site called Nintendo Age,
524
00:22:52,544 --> 00:22:55,840
which seems specifically
devoted to that culture.
525
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,028
- Well, the homebrew scene wasn't really
526
00:22:58,028 --> 00:22:59,812
the original intention of Nintendo Age.
527
00:22:59,812 --> 00:23:01,652
It was just sort of
something that just happened.
528
00:23:01,652 --> 00:23:03,956
People came to our site, because they saw
529
00:23:03,956 --> 00:23:06,010
that homebrews were
listed in the database.
530
00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:07,360
- See, this is what I find fascinating.
531
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:08,620
I would always think that the reason
532
00:23:08,620 --> 00:23:10,473
that people would come to Nintendo Age is,
533
00:23:10,473 --> 00:23:11,983
me and you would go
there, because nostalgia.
534
00:23:11,983 --> 00:23:14,024
We want to see games
that we're familiar with.
535
00:23:14,024 --> 00:23:16,364
But we're saying that there's
a level of verisimilitude.
536
00:23:16,364 --> 00:23:18,592
Like, they're looking
for an NES experience
537
00:23:18,592 --> 00:23:20,245
that they've never had before.
538
00:23:20,245 --> 00:23:21,078
- Make no mistake about it.
539
00:23:21,078 --> 00:23:22,833
This is a brand new market
540
00:23:22,833 --> 00:23:24,376
for a very old system.
541
00:23:28,584 --> 00:23:29,714
While Austin was in California,
542
00:23:29,714 --> 00:23:32,567
he checked out GDC, the
Game Developer's Conference.
543
00:23:32,567 --> 00:23:33,801
This is where all the major players
544
00:23:33,801 --> 00:23:35,798
in modern game development
showed off all their latest
545
00:23:35,798 --> 00:23:38,016
and greatest tools and toys, and a lot
546
00:23:38,016 --> 00:23:40,126
of the experiences didn't
even resemble video games
547
00:23:40,126 --> 00:23:42,364
by 1988 standards.
548
00:23:42,364 --> 00:23:43,430
Yet, right in the middle
549
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:46,146
of all these technological monstrosities,
550
00:23:46,146 --> 00:23:49,478
was Independent Game of
the Year, Shovel Knight.
551
00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:51,966
That year's Independent Game
of the Year was a throwback
552
00:23:51,966 --> 00:23:53,570
to the eight-bit era of gaming.
553
00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:56,266
- The love for NES games is why we did
554
00:23:56,266 --> 00:23:58,353
the whole Shovel Knight
project in the first place.
555
00:23:58,353 --> 00:24:00,922
Everything from Shovel Knight
just started with the seed
556
00:24:00,922 --> 00:24:03,365
of an idea to do
something that was similar
557
00:24:03,365 --> 00:24:06,057
to all the NES games that
we knew and loved as kids.
558
00:24:06,057 --> 00:24:07,734
With the eight-bit
aesthetic, we weren't sure if
559
00:24:07,734 --> 00:24:09,244
that's something that
people were gonna like,
560
00:24:09,244 --> 00:24:11,154
or if that's something
that could be popular.
561
00:24:11,154 --> 00:24:13,073
When we went to PAX, and people played it,
562
00:24:13,073 --> 00:24:14,464
when they played the King Knight demo,
563
00:24:14,464 --> 00:24:16,322
we knew that people were excited about it.
564
00:24:16,322 --> 00:24:18,314
It means that the style is enduring,
565
00:24:18,314 --> 00:24:19,622
that pixel art is a thing
566
00:24:19,622 --> 00:24:22,334
that wasn't just something from the past,
567
00:24:22,334 --> 00:24:25,167
that it continues into the future.
568
00:24:26,547 --> 00:24:29,042
So one thing we had
going for us was there did seem
569
00:24:29,042 --> 00:24:31,306
to be a love for that eight-bit aesthetic,
570
00:24:31,306 --> 00:24:32,761
which isn't really surprising.
571
00:24:32,761 --> 00:24:35,111
I mean, retro culture, in general,
572
00:24:35,111 --> 00:24:37,934
was seeing a big resurgence in popularity.
573
00:24:37,934 --> 00:24:38,910
Compare it to vinyl.
574
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:40,870
Record stores were thriving again.
575
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:42,970
People were more than willing
to look past the drawbacks
576
00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:45,522
of the obsolete technology
for the gratification,
577
00:24:45,522 --> 00:24:48,279
that tactile experience,
that physical medium.
578
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:49,750
But the problem was we
weren't just talking
579
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:51,985
about a pixel art aesthetic
like Shovel Knight.
580
00:24:51,985 --> 00:24:54,730
There's a huge difference between
making a NES-stylized game
581
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:56,888
and one that will run
on the actual hardware.
582
00:24:56,888 --> 00:24:58,832
Let's first start by defining eight-bit.
583
00:24:58,832 --> 00:25:01,140
A lot of people think it
has to do with the graphics,
584
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:03,032
but it's actually about the processing.
585
00:25:03,032 --> 00:25:03,948
But what is a bit?
586
00:25:03,948 --> 00:25:06,540
It's the smallest unit
of data for a computer.
587
00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:09,168
Essentially, it's a switch
that can either be on or off,
588
00:25:09,168 --> 00:25:11,748
one or zero, and it's this
state that tells the computer
589
00:25:11,748 --> 00:25:14,056
how to proceed with the program.
590
00:25:14,056 --> 00:25:17,798
A simple non-technological
proxy might be a coin flip.
591
00:25:17,798 --> 00:25:19,333
Heads, we have chicken for dinner.
592
00:25:19,333 --> 00:25:20,748
Tails, we have steak for dinner.
593
00:25:20,748 --> 00:25:22,304
That's one coin flip, one switch,
594
00:25:22,304 --> 00:25:25,274
one bit where there are
two possible outcomes.
595
00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:26,594
What if we had two bits?
596
00:25:26,594 --> 00:25:27,782
What if we had two coins?
597
00:25:27,782 --> 00:25:29,836
We could have heads-heads, heads-tails,
598
00:25:29,836 --> 00:25:33,124
tails-heads or tails-tails,
four possible outcomes.
599
00:25:33,124 --> 00:25:35,176
With eight bits, with eight coins to flip,
600
00:25:35,176 --> 00:25:38,236
there are 256 possible outcomes.
601
00:25:38,236 --> 00:25:39,964
So essentially an
eight-bit processor is one
602
00:25:39,964 --> 00:25:43,308
that's only able to process
eight bits of data at one time.
603
00:25:43,308 --> 00:25:45,124
How does that stack up
to today's computers?
604
00:25:45,124 --> 00:25:48,932
Well, even the processor found
in your cell phone is 64-bit.
605
00:25:48,932 --> 00:25:50,515
A 64-bit machine can transfer
606
00:25:50,515 --> 00:25:53,367
18 quintillion bits at one time.
607
00:25:53,367 --> 00:25:54,806
Now this is an oversimplification,
608
00:25:54,806 --> 00:25:58,555
but in coin flip terms, a
modern computer can decide
609
00:25:58,555 --> 00:26:00,911
what to have for dinner,
what show to watch,
610
00:26:00,911 --> 00:26:02,787
what color to paint the walls
611
00:26:02,787 --> 00:26:05,424
and then read the entire
Lord of the Rings trilogy,
612
00:26:05,424 --> 00:26:07,915
word-by-word, over a billion times,
613
00:26:07,915 --> 00:26:09,283
while the NES is still trying
614
00:26:09,283 --> 00:26:12,387
to decide whether we should
have chicken or steak.
615
00:26:12,387 --> 00:26:16,361
Is there any compelling
reason why we should try
616
00:26:16,361 --> 00:26:20,125
and make a game actually
playable on the system hardware
617
00:26:20,125 --> 00:26:22,313
when it would be so much easier
to make the same exact game
618
00:26:22,313 --> 00:26:24,747
in every way in a much
shorter amount of time
619
00:26:24,747 --> 00:26:27,463
for a modern system, a
computer, an iPhone, whatever.
620
00:26:27,463 --> 00:26:30,648
- Sure, you know, when you
develop a game for the NES,
621
00:26:30,648 --> 00:26:34,011
you have just added to
the history, to the legacy
622
00:26:34,011 --> 00:26:36,839
of the various lineages
that came from the NES.
623
00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:41,447
Let's take, like, the Mega Man
series or Castlevania series.
624
00:26:41,447 --> 00:26:42,551
You know, you've got Mario.
625
00:26:42,551 --> 00:26:43,384
Final Fantasy.
626
00:26:43,384 --> 00:26:44,979
- Final Fantasy.
- You've got
627
00:26:44,979 --> 00:26:45,856
Zelda.
- Metroid.
628
00:26:45,856 --> 00:26:47,800
- Metroid.
- Yeah, it goes on and on.
629
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,540
I mean, if you develop for the NES,
630
00:26:49,540 --> 00:26:51,460
you've created an artifact.
631
00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:54,896
You've now become part of a catalog
632
00:26:54,896 --> 00:26:57,400
that has such a rich legacy.
633
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,420
Legacy, sure,
634
00:26:58,420 --> 00:27:01,564
but maybe there was a reason
we left it in the past.
635
00:27:01,564 --> 00:27:04,143
- Section Z.
636
00:27:10,696 --> 00:27:13,291
- Are we looking at this
through rose-colored glasses,
637
00:27:13,291 --> 00:27:16,104
you think ?
638
00:27:16,104 --> 00:27:17,483
Is this the gameplay experience
639
00:27:17,483 --> 00:27:20,288
that we want to recapture ?
640
00:27:20,288 --> 00:27:22,028
Maybe an even more
relevant criticism came
641
00:27:22,028 --> 00:27:25,337
from the Fine Brothers
Teens React series of videos
642
00:27:25,337 --> 00:27:27,295
where teenagers, including
someone who may be familiar
643
00:27:27,295 --> 00:27:28,995
to Game of Thrones fans reacted
644
00:27:28,995 --> 00:27:31,215
to playing the Nintendo
for the first time.
645
00:27:31,215 --> 00:27:32,851
You are reacting to this.
646
00:27:32,851 --> 00:27:35,011
- Is that, uh, hold up, let me.
647
00:27:35,011 --> 00:27:36,636
Audio, video, is this a projector?
648
00:27:39,428 --> 00:27:41,548
--
649
00:27:42,748 --> 00:27:44,268
- This is old-school stuff right here.
650
00:27:44,268 --> 00:27:46,478
- This is sad that, like,
I know what this is,
651
00:27:46,478 --> 00:27:48,689
but I've never, like,
seen one in real life.
652
00:27:48,689 --> 00:27:49,798
- Looks like a brick.
653
00:27:49,798 --> 00:27:51,287
- From like 1920.
654
00:27:51,287 --> 00:27:53,699
You are going to be
playing Super Mario Bros.
655
00:27:53,699 --> 00:27:54,688
- Yes!
656
00:27:54,688 --> 00:27:56,308
?
657
00:27:56,308 --> 00:27:57,708
It's like as big as my face.
658
00:27:57,708 --> 00:27:59,609
Go ahead and put it in.
659
00:27:59,609 --> 00:28:00,757
- Don't judge me.
660
00:28:00,757 --> 00:28:02,067
- Okay.
661
00:28:04,236 --> 00:28:05,069
- Um...
662
00:28:06,657 --> 00:28:08,633
It's kind of a bit, oh, oh.
663
00:28:10,241 --> 00:28:11,074
Power?
664
00:28:13,097 --> 00:28:13,937
Okay.
665
00:28:13,937 --> 00:28:15,465
- Power.
666
00:28:16,298 --> 00:28:17,930
- Let's go!
- Bomb!
667
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:19,541
Is it working, though?
668
00:28:19,541 --> 00:28:20,374
- No.
669
00:28:20,374 --> 00:28:21,207
- I did it.
670
00:28:21,207 --> 00:28:22,781
That was so, wait, no?
671
00:28:22,781 --> 00:28:24,329
I did it, no, yes?
672
00:28:24,329 --> 00:28:25,341
Did I do it wrong?
673
00:28:25,341 --> 00:28:26,792
- Yay, um, no.
674
00:28:26,792 --> 00:28:28,821
Yeah, it's like flashing .
675
00:28:28,821 --> 00:28:29,704
- I make fun of my dad
676
00:28:29,704 --> 00:28:31,472
of, like, not knowing how to use stuff.
677
00:28:31,472 --> 00:28:32,453
People tried lots of things
678
00:28:32,453 --> 00:28:33,693
to try to get the games to work.
679
00:28:33,693 --> 00:28:36,491
And the most popular of which
was taking the game back out
680
00:28:36,491 --> 00:28:37,902
and then blowing on it.
681
00:28:37,902 --> 00:28:39,853
- Oh!
- And then putting it back in.
682
00:28:47,354 --> 00:28:48,731
- Oh, nope, I don't want to, I'm scared.
683
00:28:48,731 --> 00:28:51,272
Okay , it's
happening , okay.
684
00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:53,490
♪ Ding ding ♪
685
00:28:56,610 --> 00:28:58,318
- I love this game.
686
00:28:58,318 --> 00:29:00,109
- I feel like I'm in Wreck-It Ralph.
687
00:29:00,109 --> 00:29:01,689
- This controller sucks.
688
00:29:01,689 --> 00:29:04,285
This is the least
comfortable controller ever.
689
00:29:04,285 --> 00:29:06,549
Oh !
690
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:09,960
- Oh dammit, dude, I already died!
691
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,770
.
692
00:29:12,770 --> 00:29:14,940
- I literally died first time.
693
00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:16,101
That was so poor.
694
00:29:16,101 --> 00:29:17,872
So would you say
this is better or worse
695
00:29:17,872 --> 00:29:19,202
than consoles of today?
696
00:29:19,202 --> 00:29:20,373
- Worse.
697
00:29:20,373 --> 00:29:21,728
- Worse
- Worse.
698
00:29:21,728 --> 00:29:24,150
- There's, like, problems
with just freaking
699
00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:25,889
starting this up, and
you still want to tell me
700
00:29:25,889 --> 00:29:30,260
that a 1080p Xbox One
is worse than this game.
701
00:29:30,260 --> 00:29:31,318
Get out of here.
702
00:29:31,318 --> 00:29:33,198
- I mean, it's kind of outdated now.
703
00:29:33,198 --> 00:29:37,365
So I mean, got to let go of
the past here and move on.
704
00:29:40,353 --> 00:29:42,103
I think he was right.
705
00:29:43,817 --> 00:29:47,073
Maybe my fascination with
this project only served
706
00:29:47,073 --> 00:29:50,117
to prove how old and
out-of-touch I've become.
707
00:29:50,117 --> 00:29:52,773
But millions of people tuned in
708
00:29:52,773 --> 00:29:55,861
to watch the kids react to the NES video.
709
00:29:55,861 --> 00:29:58,097
It means it had to have
relevance to somebody.
710
00:29:58,097 --> 00:29:59,881
- My name's Matt Barker, and I run a group
711
00:29:59,881 --> 00:30:02,234
called the First United
Church of Nintendo.
712
00:30:05,548 --> 00:30:09,805
We're roughly at about, I
think, 1,200 members already.
713
00:30:09,805 --> 00:30:11,258
I have people all over the world
714
00:30:11,258 --> 00:30:13,825
that follow me on Facebook and Instagram.
715
00:30:13,825 --> 00:30:16,214
I like to meet everybody's families.
716
00:30:16,214 --> 00:30:18,168
I do fundraisers for the community
717
00:30:18,168 --> 00:30:20,507
and things like that as well.
718
00:30:20,507 --> 00:30:21,525
Redefining what it meant
719
00:30:21,525 --> 00:30:23,772
to be devoted to this gaming console,
720
00:30:23,772 --> 00:30:26,713
Matt had applied for
official religious status
721
00:30:26,713 --> 00:30:29,053
for the First United Church of Nintendo.
722
00:30:29,053 --> 00:30:30,614
- I think what Church does here
723
00:30:30,614 --> 00:30:33,516
with people is it gives
everybody a spot to come meet,
724
00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:36,895
talk, amongst people
with similar interests.
725
00:30:36,895 --> 00:30:40,225
It's basically memories,
creating new ones,
726
00:30:40,225 --> 00:30:42,054
reliving some old ones,
727
00:30:42,054 --> 00:30:43,065
knowing that we don't have
728
00:30:43,065 --> 00:30:44,847
like a, quote-unquote, higher being,
729
00:30:44,847 --> 00:30:48,277
but it's about, more or less,
just about being together.
730
00:30:48,277 --> 00:30:50,957
So a fair hypothesis
was in order to find the people
731
00:30:50,957 --> 00:30:52,967
that would be interested
in this culture, I just had
732
00:30:52,967 --> 00:30:55,346
to go to where the nerds
were gathered together.
733
00:31:06,557 --> 00:31:07,390
Except...
734
00:31:12,168 --> 00:31:13,080
I didn't know there were
735
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,792
any new NES games.
- Do they still make new
736
00:31:14,792 --> 00:31:16,212
NES games?
737
00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:21,351
I don't know any new NES games.
738
00:31:21,351 --> 00:31:22,184
- Oh.
739
00:31:25,421 --> 00:31:26,254
- I don't know.
740
00:31:27,448 --> 00:31:28,448
Yup.
741
00:31:30,579 --> 00:31:31,412
- I don't know.
742
00:31:31,412 --> 00:31:32,718
- I didn't know they
were still making them.
743
00:31:34,475 --> 00:31:36,064
I didn't know they
actually still made them.
744
00:31:36,064 --> 00:31:37,705
So here at Dragon Con, we had one
745
00:31:37,705 --> 00:31:40,214
of the biggest mass gatherings
of nerds in the country.
746
00:31:40,214 --> 00:31:42,105
People were unapologetically nerdy,
747
00:31:42,105 --> 00:31:44,585
that loved the NES, and
yet not a single one
748
00:31:44,585 --> 00:31:47,563
of them could name a
post-market developed NES game.
749
00:31:47,563 --> 00:31:51,235
That did not bode well for our
ambitions for this project.
750
00:31:51,235 --> 00:31:54,493
Good idea or not, we
crossed the threshold.
751
00:31:54,493 --> 00:31:56,009
It was too late to turn back now.
752
00:31:57,445 --> 00:32:01,612
- So what stands between us,
where we are here, day one,
753
00:32:03,037 --> 00:32:04,704
and a finished game?
754
00:32:05,557 --> 00:32:06,567
What do we need to accomplish?
755
00:32:06,567 --> 00:32:09,235
- Well, I mean, first, I have to,
756
00:32:09,235 --> 00:32:11,567
I have to learn the
fundamentals of the language
757
00:32:11,567 --> 00:32:14,447
that was used to program that system.
758
00:32:14,447 --> 00:32:15,506
- And to do that--
- Which is an
759
00:32:15,506 --> 00:32:16,378
archaic language.
760
00:32:16,378 --> 00:32:17,818
- You need to know exactly what kind
761
00:32:17,818 --> 00:32:19,469
of game it is we're gonna be programming,
762
00:32:19,469 --> 00:32:21,285
in the first place.
- Yeah, yeah, you know,
763
00:32:21,285 --> 00:32:23,618
what genre, what the
mechanics are gonna be,
764
00:32:23,618 --> 00:32:24,451
and then we--
765
00:32:24,451 --> 00:32:26,687
- I want to know that
before we can do the assets
766
00:32:26,687 --> 00:32:28,167
and the music and the--
767
00:32:28,167 --> 00:32:29,000
- Music and the graphics
768
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,081
and the whatever.
- Everything that we need
769
00:32:30,081 --> 00:32:31,704
to create the game.
- And the story.
770
00:32:31,704 --> 00:32:32,766
Yeah, I mean, maybe what we should do
771
00:32:32,766 --> 00:32:33,804
is just immerse ourselves,
772
00:32:33,804 --> 00:32:35,915
play as many NES games as possible
773
00:32:35,915 --> 00:32:37,206
and just kind of remember,
you know, what worked,
774
00:32:37,206 --> 00:32:38,574
what didn't work.
775
00:32:38,574 --> 00:32:39,835
- I like this plan.
776
00:32:41,854 --> 00:32:45,995
So a lot of these are actively not good.
777
00:32:45,995 --> 00:32:49,526
- Yeah, I forget how
many terrible games were
778
00:32:49,526 --> 00:32:52,443
in this 700-and-so-on game catalog.
779
00:32:54,309 --> 00:32:58,751
- With so many examples
of failure ,
780
00:32:58,751 --> 00:33:02,711
how do we ensure that
our game doesn't suck?
781
00:33:02,711 --> 00:33:06,240
- Now if I'm gonna go to
an expert to talk about
782
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,630
why some Nintendo games
sucked, it would be you, so.
783
00:33:12,926 --> 00:33:14,367
♪ He's gonna take you back to the past ♪
784
00:33:14,367 --> 00:33:15,413
James Rolfe, maybe better known
785
00:33:15,413 --> 00:33:18,311
by his character's moniker,
The Angry Video Game Nerd,
786
00:33:18,311 --> 00:33:20,607
had built a veritable
empire with the YouTube show
787
00:33:20,607 --> 00:33:23,623
that examined all the
shortcomings of NES games.
788
00:33:23,623 --> 00:33:25,675
If anyone could help me
navigate the minefield
789
00:33:25,675 --> 00:33:27,287
of poor design choices for games
790
00:33:27,287 --> 00:33:28,795
for the system, it'd be him.
791
00:33:28,795 --> 00:33:32,462
♪ The Angry Video Game Nerd ♪
792
00:33:34,946 --> 00:33:37,840
- You know, it's great
hearing this from James Rolfe.
793
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,787
I want the nerd to tell me
what our game can't be.
794
00:33:42,787 --> 00:33:44,240
- You got to think Zelda.
795
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,908
Get Zelda in your head, not High Glide,
796
00:33:46,908 --> 00:33:49,564
not Spiritual Warfare, none
of that fucking bullshit.
797
00:33:49,564 --> 00:33:51,380
You got to channel that Tri Force.
798
00:33:51,380 --> 00:33:53,928
When you mix green and
brown, nobody likes that.
799
00:33:53,928 --> 00:33:55,204
It looks like shit and puke.
800
00:33:55,204 --> 00:33:56,164
You don't want that.
801
00:33:56,164 --> 00:33:58,619
Don't do any of this shit
like Frankenstein on NES.
802
00:33:58,619 --> 00:34:00,132
Even Metroid had some problems with that,
803
00:34:00,132 --> 00:34:02,247
with those big, long fucking passwords.
804
00:34:02,247 --> 00:34:03,733
You'll do that shit!
805
00:34:03,733 --> 00:34:06,717
I don't want to see asterisks and commas
806
00:34:06,717 --> 00:34:10,035
and fucking zeroes and O's
looking like each other
807
00:34:10,035 --> 00:34:13,915
and fucking I's and
L's, like what the fuck?
808
00:34:13,915 --> 00:34:16,824
Just have one group of
letters, or even better,
809
00:34:16,824 --> 00:34:18,311
have a battery backup.
810
00:34:18,311 --> 00:34:20,411
Do what LJN did, but don't.
811
00:34:20,411 --> 00:34:21,939
Just do the opposite.
812
00:34:21,939 --> 00:34:24,578
Look at what LJN did,
and then don't do that.
813
00:34:24,578 --> 00:34:27,328
Do the complete fucking opposite.
814
00:34:29,416 --> 00:34:30,249
- Okay.
815
00:34:31,491 --> 00:34:32,324
This is
816
00:34:34,743 --> 00:34:36,493
every Nintendo Power,
817
00:34:38,855 --> 00:34:40,705
Nintendo Fun Club News,
818
00:34:40,705 --> 00:34:42,439
Nintendo strategy guide--
- Oh wow.
819
00:34:42,439 --> 00:34:46,119
- From 1987 to 1994, the entire run.
820
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:48,191
- Wow.
- Of the NES' life.
821
00:34:48,191 --> 00:34:51,216
What we're gonna do is we're
gonna try to erase 30 years
822
00:34:51,216 --> 00:34:52,707
of gaming vernacular from the our brain.
823
00:34:52,707 --> 00:34:54,443
We're gonna use this as a
time machine to go back--
824
00:34:54,443 --> 00:34:55,276
- Yeah.
825
00:34:55,276 --> 00:34:58,073
- To 1998, and remember
this is what excited us
826
00:34:58,073 --> 00:34:59,483
about an eight-bit experience.
- For sure.
827
00:34:59,483 --> 00:35:00,643
You know, these things, what--
828
00:35:00,643 --> 00:35:03,611
- I mean, yeah, like
these screen composites
829
00:35:03,611 --> 00:35:06,771
of side-scrollers constituted
an epic adventure.
830
00:35:06,771 --> 00:35:08,462
- And you know, the Zelda maps
831
00:35:08,462 --> 00:35:09,655
still the same thing.
- Yeah, the maps,
832
00:35:09,655 --> 00:35:11,232
that's what it all
looks like put together.
833
00:35:11,232 --> 00:35:12,665
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- I could be in there,
834
00:35:12,665 --> 00:35:14,165
doing that.
- Yeah.
835
00:35:15,325 --> 00:35:18,975
If we were trying to build a
game that sort of capitalized
836
00:35:18,975 --> 00:35:22,808
on the things that the
NES did best, you know,
837
00:35:24,357 --> 00:35:26,607
we might see something like
838
00:35:27,597 --> 00:35:30,306
the open-world exploration
of The Legend of Zelda
839
00:35:30,306 --> 00:35:33,205
and the secrets and the
challenges and the puzzles,
840
00:35:33,205 --> 00:35:35,194
while at the same time,
serve an epic story
841
00:35:35,194 --> 00:35:37,089
like you find in those RPGs,
842
00:35:37,089 --> 00:35:39,429
early RPGs like a Final
Fantasy, Dragon Warrior,
843
00:35:39,429 --> 00:35:41,373
with the platforming mechanics
844
00:35:41,373 --> 00:35:45,377
of a Super Mario Brothers
and a stage selection
845
00:35:45,377 --> 00:35:47,897
where you inherit the monster's powers,
846
00:35:47,897 --> 00:35:51,122
that you can play out of
order, like in Mega Man,
847
00:35:51,122 --> 00:35:53,105
creating the sense of mood
848
00:35:53,105 --> 00:35:55,461
of like a Castlevania or a Metroid
849
00:35:55,461 --> 00:35:58,961
with the cinematics of like a Ninja Guide.
850
00:36:00,826 --> 00:36:03,444
- Yes, it sounds, it sounds easy.
851
00:36:03,444 --> 00:36:04,577
We got this.
852
00:36:04,577 --> 00:36:08,744
How do you even get started
learning this archaic system?
853
00:36:09,605 --> 00:36:11,343
- The starting point is at the beginning.
854
00:36:11,343 --> 00:36:12,413
And the beginning is learning how
855
00:36:12,413 --> 00:36:15,185
to program 6502 assembly language.
856
00:36:18,173 --> 00:36:20,829
- My goal for tonight is
to make something happen,
857
00:36:20,829 --> 00:36:23,471
anything, something move on the screen,
858
00:36:23,471 --> 00:36:25,223
something show up on the screen,
859
00:36:25,223 --> 00:36:28,329
something input or something, anything.
860
00:36:28,329 --> 00:36:31,475
- You know, to get started, you
just have to start doing it.
861
00:36:31,475 --> 00:36:35,088
The tools you need to make
an NES game are as simple
862
00:36:35,088 --> 00:36:38,702
as Microsoft Notepad,
Paint, a graphics editor
863
00:36:38,702 --> 00:36:40,592
and an assembler, that's it.
864
00:36:40,592 --> 00:36:41,943
And they're all free.
865
00:36:41,943 --> 00:36:44,276
Half of them are already on
your computer to begin with.
866
00:36:46,819 --> 00:36:48,031
- The ecosystem is so small.
867
00:36:48,031 --> 00:36:50,490
It's just you and the hardware.
868
00:36:50,490 --> 00:36:51,871
There's almost nothing else.
869
00:36:51,871 --> 00:36:53,807
Whenever you build a
game for a modern system
870
00:36:53,807 --> 00:36:56,403
like an iPhone, you have to
contend with game engines.
871
00:36:56,403 --> 00:36:58,891
You have to worry about what
the operating system is doing.
872
00:36:58,891 --> 00:37:01,143
You have to worry about
digital distribution stores.
873
00:37:01,143 --> 00:37:02,235
There's so many things that you have
874
00:37:02,235 --> 00:37:03,476
to worry about, but on the NES,
875
00:37:03,476 --> 00:37:06,315
it's just you and a text
editor and the system.
876
00:37:11,726 --> 00:37:12,893
- Yes!
877
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,769
- All right.
- Okay, now,
878
00:37:16,769 --> 00:37:20,602
doesn't look like much,
but the screen is red.
879
00:37:22,186 --> 00:37:25,123
In the NES emulator, the screen is red.
880
00:37:25,123 --> 00:37:26,983
Nice.
881
00:37:26,983 --> 00:37:31,150
- Admittedly, far cry from
the actual video game, but--
882
00:37:32,174 --> 00:37:34,006
The screen is red.
883
00:37:34,006 --> 00:37:36,002
- The screen is red.
884
00:37:40,191 --> 00:37:41,486
Obviously, I was gonna
need additional help.
885
00:37:41,486 --> 00:37:43,428
That pace was way too slow for me.
886
00:37:43,428 --> 00:37:44,914
So I tracked down Brian Parker
887
00:37:44,914 --> 00:37:46,806
from a company called retroUSB.
888
00:37:46,806 --> 00:37:48,846
He created a tutorial
series that helped beginners
889
00:37:48,846 --> 00:37:50,946
like me get started
programming for the NES.
890
00:37:50,946 --> 00:37:53,613
- I went to college for
computer engineering
891
00:37:53,613 --> 00:37:57,394
and focusing on
supercomputer architecture.
892
00:37:57,394 --> 00:37:58,338
When I got out,
893
00:37:58,338 --> 00:38:00,462
all of the supercomputer
companies were bankrupt,
894
00:38:00,462 --> 00:38:01,530
so I didn't have a job.
895
00:38:02,403 --> 00:38:05,370
So it's interesting that
SGI doesn't exist anymore,
896
00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:07,063
but Nintendo still does.
897
00:38:07,063 --> 00:38:08,856
Is this your,
this is your main gig?
898
00:38:08,856 --> 00:38:09,689
- Yes.
899
00:38:09,689 --> 00:38:10,522
Wow, so you do this full-time.
900
00:38:10,522 --> 00:38:14,018
- This has been my
full-time job for 12 years.
901
00:38:14,018 --> 00:38:16,027
His Nerdy Nights
tutorial series helped me
902
00:38:16,027 --> 00:38:19,013
with syntax and structure and
all the foundational stuff
903
00:38:19,013 --> 00:38:21,697
I really need to know to get started.
904
00:38:21,697 --> 00:38:23,049
- There were a lot of complaints
905
00:38:23,049 --> 00:38:26,229
that all the programming
knowledge was sort of hard
906
00:38:26,229 --> 00:38:29,571
to get to, locked away in forums
907
00:38:29,571 --> 00:38:32,649
where you had to ask a
question to get an answer.
908
00:38:32,649 --> 00:38:35,825
And beginners don't know
what question to ask.
909
00:38:35,825 --> 00:38:39,097
- What are the pitfalls
I should be watching for?
910
00:38:39,097 --> 00:38:40,733
- Giving up too early.
911
00:38:40,733 --> 00:38:41,693
Well, you're not gonna do that.
912
00:38:41,693 --> 00:38:42,661
- No, no.
913
00:38:42,661 --> 00:38:44,501
Is that a common--
914
00:38:44,501 --> 00:38:45,334
- Yeah.
915
00:38:45,334 --> 00:38:47,343
Why do you think people give up?
916
00:38:47,343 --> 00:38:49,264
- I think people hit one spot
917
00:38:49,264 --> 00:38:50,655
where they don't figure it out,
918
00:38:50,655 --> 00:38:53,405
and then they never try it again.
919
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:56,701
And that's exactly
what happened as soon
920
00:38:56,701 --> 00:38:59,733
as I started to deviate
from the tutorials.
921
00:38:59,733 --> 00:39:01,246
It turned out assembly
language wasn't even
922
00:39:01,246 --> 00:39:03,093
that difficult, but how it interfaced
923
00:39:03,093 --> 00:39:06,573
with the NES hardware
was really unintuitive.
924
00:39:06,573 --> 00:39:09,817
- My profession, like, I'm a programmer.
925
00:39:09,817 --> 00:39:13,115
So I thought I'll get a Nintendo,
926
00:39:13,115 --> 00:39:15,258
and I'll learn to program on it.
927
00:39:15,258 --> 00:39:17,566
And it was interesting.
928
00:39:17,566 --> 00:39:20,114
It's very small-scale hardware.
929
00:39:20,114 --> 00:39:22,230
There's things that are
very simple about it.
930
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:26,070
But there's also things that
are very complicated about it.
931
00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:28,110
Getting a couple of things on the screen,
932
00:39:28,110 --> 00:39:31,650
getting a background up,
that comes pretty quick.
933
00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,516
But then there's all these rough edges.
934
00:39:34,516 --> 00:39:36,422
Everything's synchronized.
935
00:39:36,422 --> 00:39:39,558
The scanning of a cathode
ray television going back
936
00:39:39,558 --> 00:39:41,506
and forth across a screen,
937
00:39:41,506 --> 00:39:43,966
and things like sprites flickering,
938
00:39:43,966 --> 00:39:46,050
'cause there's too many on the screen
939
00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:48,833
or if you do transitions the wrong way,
940
00:39:48,833 --> 00:39:51,516
like you get an image that looks wrong.
941
00:39:51,516 --> 00:39:52,712
Things are in the wrong places.
942
00:39:52,712 --> 00:39:56,070
Getting all those dark
corners sorted out took me
943
00:39:56,070 --> 00:40:00,237
like a year or two just to
get used to all of that.
944
00:40:01,102 --> 00:40:04,318
- In a modern game engine,
in a programming language,
945
00:40:04,318 --> 00:40:05,991
if you want a random
number, you'd write random
946
00:40:05,991 --> 00:40:07,890
and then in parenthesis 50,
and you get a random number
947
00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:09,466
between zero and 50, you know, whatever.
948
00:40:09,466 --> 00:40:10,299
- Right, right.
949
00:40:10,299 --> 00:40:12,042
- Very easy there to conceptualize.
950
00:40:12,042 --> 00:40:14,338
On the NES, there is no random function.
951
00:40:14,338 --> 00:40:16,307
It doesn't exist with that hardware.
952
00:40:16,307 --> 00:40:17,198
It's not that easy.
953
00:40:17,198 --> 00:40:18,031
- I don't understand,
954
00:40:18,031 --> 00:40:20,781
because I know games had
random things happen,
955
00:40:20,781 --> 00:40:22,568
and literally, I've spent like
a week trying to figure out
956
00:40:22,568 --> 00:40:23,776
how to get a random number, and...
957
00:40:28,184 --> 00:40:30,104
Is there, like, a forum
or something that...
958
00:40:32,384 --> 00:40:34,150
♪ Well, misery loves company ♪
959
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:36,294
♪ That's why we're thick as thieves ♪
960
00:40:36,294 --> 00:40:37,930
♪ Let's move out to the country ♪
961
00:40:37,930 --> 00:40:40,286
♪ And live just the way we please ♪
962
00:40:40,286 --> 00:40:42,189
♪ We'll write a song and sing along ♪
963
00:40:42,189 --> 00:40:44,306
♪ And sway into the sound ♪
964
00:40:44,306 --> 00:40:46,330
♪ And the chorus will go like this ♪
965
00:40:46,330 --> 00:40:48,310
♪ We burn the city down ♪
966
00:40:48,310 --> 00:40:50,142
♪ We burn the city down ♪
967
00:40:50,142 --> 00:40:52,790
♪ Yeah, we burn the city down ♪
968
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:54,004
I headed to the middle of nowhere
969
00:40:54,004 --> 00:40:56,612
to meet two of the top
moderators in the NES dev forums,
970
00:40:56,612 --> 00:40:59,750
who I knew by their handles,
Memblers and Tepples.
971
00:40:59,750 --> 00:41:02,002
They agreed to meet me at the
strip mall retro game store
972
00:41:02,002 --> 00:41:03,290
that probably hadn't been maintained
973
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:05,510
since the NES was relevant.
974
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:07,894
But this was the place that
I'd meet the genius programmers
975
00:41:07,894 --> 00:41:09,981
that would be the project's salvation.
976
00:41:09,981 --> 00:41:12,403
They just weren't exactly
what I had in mind.
977
00:41:17,179 --> 00:41:19,218
I was expecting college
professors or something.
978
00:41:19,218 --> 00:41:20,762
And instead, these guys were caricatures.
979
00:41:20,762 --> 00:41:22,602
I mean, Memblers with his Gwar T-shirt
980
00:41:22,602 --> 00:41:24,178
and his long, scraggly ponytail.
981
00:41:24,178 --> 00:41:27,010
And Tepples with a, I don't
even know how to describe
982
00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:28,585
what Tepples was wearing.
983
00:41:28,585 --> 00:41:30,598
- What I'm wearing now is
considered nice clothes
984
00:41:30,598 --> 00:41:34,165
in the universe where some
of my games take place.
985
00:41:34,165 --> 00:41:38,332
It's a shirt, a long vest and
knee.
986
00:41:40,106 --> 00:41:41,826
These guys were nerds.
987
00:41:41,826 --> 00:41:44,322
And I mean that in the
traditional sense of the word.
988
00:41:44,322 --> 00:41:47,142
You know, in a time when nerd
culture has been popularized
989
00:41:47,142 --> 00:41:50,358
and made trendy and sexy,
these guys represent what
990
00:41:50,358 --> 00:41:52,027
that word should mean.
991
00:41:52,027 --> 00:41:53,698
They were deeply passionate about a thing
992
00:41:53,698 --> 00:41:55,558
that the average person
couldn't appreciate
993
00:41:55,558 --> 00:41:56,726
and didn't understand.
994
00:41:56,726 --> 00:41:57,559
It was awesome.
995
00:41:57,559 --> 00:42:00,786
I couldn't have asked for a
better source of guidance.
996
00:42:00,786 --> 00:42:04,498
♪ And every night our family
will make a joyful sound ♪
997
00:42:04,498 --> 00:42:06,266
♪ And sing of that triumphant day ♪
998
00:42:06,266 --> 00:42:08,366
♪ We burned the city down ♪
999
00:42:08,366 --> 00:42:10,090
♪ We burned the city down ♪
1000
00:42:10,090 --> 00:42:12,418
♪ Yeah, we burned the city down ♪
1001
00:42:12,418 --> 00:42:14,038
♪ We burned the city down ♪
1002
00:42:14,038 --> 00:42:17,342
♪ Yeah, we burned the city down ♪
1003
00:42:17,342 --> 00:42:18,986
- And there was an email list
1004
00:42:18,986 --> 00:42:21,146
where people writing
emulators were talking
1005
00:42:21,146 --> 00:42:24,310
about the technical, just
sharing technical details
1006
00:42:24,310 --> 00:42:26,590
of what they discovered and stuff.
1007
00:42:26,590 --> 00:42:28,358
And I just figured it would
be good to make a website
1008
00:42:28,358 --> 00:42:30,790
to put all that stuff together.
1009
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:33,605
I feel like it's achieved
pretty much the goal.
1010
00:42:33,605 --> 00:42:36,432
I mean, it's become
kind of self-sustaining
1011
00:42:36,432 --> 00:42:37,813
where I've helped some people learn.
1012
00:42:37,813 --> 00:42:40,762
And they were able to help
other people learn things.
1013
00:42:40,762 --> 00:42:43,687
And it's just really grown
and just kind of snowballed
1014
00:42:43,687 --> 00:42:46,733
from there, as you just get
so many other people that,
1015
00:42:46,733 --> 00:42:47,917
as they gain experience, you know,
1016
00:42:47,917 --> 00:42:50,763
they're better able to help other people
1017
00:42:50,763 --> 00:42:52,398
when they're starting out.
1018
00:42:52,398 --> 00:42:55,298
- And you know, with their
sort of master tutelage,
1019
00:42:55,298 --> 00:42:58,317
I really began to understand
how this code worked
1020
00:42:58,317 --> 00:42:59,529
and was able to produce something
1021
00:42:59,529 --> 00:43:02,935
that looked very much like
a game in the NES emulator.
1022
00:43:02,935 --> 00:43:04,899
It was awesome.
1023
00:43:04,899 --> 00:43:07,317
But the goal wasn't to get
it to run on an emulator.
1024
00:43:07,317 --> 00:43:10,963
The goal was to get it to
run on an actual cartridge.
1025
00:43:10,963 --> 00:43:14,071
Okay, so what did we
find out about hardware?
1026
00:43:14,071 --> 00:43:16,783
- So actually it's not that difficult.
1027
00:43:16,783 --> 00:43:19,319
I mean, it's pretty much an empty case.
1028
00:43:19,319 --> 00:43:21,255
You have the cartridge itself.
1029
00:43:21,255 --> 00:43:22,268
It's a real simple board.
1030
00:43:22,268 --> 00:43:23,528
You got the data chip.
1031
00:43:23,528 --> 00:43:26,184
You got the graphics chip and a mapper.
1032
00:43:26,184 --> 00:43:27,880
So from a technology perspective,
1033
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,620
it's not that tough at all.
1034
00:43:29,620 --> 00:43:31,071
- We can get all the parts ourselves
1035
00:43:31,071 --> 00:43:32,424
and start snapping together boards
1036
00:43:32,424 --> 00:43:35,120
with like 3D-printed cartridges maybe.
1037
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,797
- Yeah, yeah, if we wanted
to put all this using some
1038
00:43:37,797 --> 00:43:38,735
of the more traditional stuff,
1039
00:43:38,735 --> 00:43:40,024
we could put it together ourselves,
1040
00:43:40,024 --> 00:43:41,224
but it doesn't make sense.
1041
00:43:41,224 --> 00:43:42,189
Is it that tough?
1042
00:43:42,189 --> 00:43:45,300
No, but you actually have
companies out there that make it.
1043
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:46,320
- Make new NES--
1044
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:47,308
- I did a little bit of research.
1045
00:43:47,308 --> 00:43:49,792
There's a company called
Infinite NES Lives.
1046
00:43:49,792 --> 00:43:53,228
They actually do the
manufacturing of the board,
1047
00:43:53,228 --> 00:43:56,152
of the plastic, of everything.
1048
00:43:56,152 --> 00:43:57,952
And they'll put it all
together for us, too.
1049
00:43:57,952 --> 00:43:59,332
I don't know why,
but I had this delusion
1050
00:43:59,332 --> 00:44:01,944
of some corporate office or
some industrial assembly line
1051
00:44:01,944 --> 00:44:04,026
that was cranking out new cartridges.
1052
00:44:04,026 --> 00:44:07,372
But no, the offices of Infinite
NES Lives where brand-new,
1053
00:44:07,372 --> 00:44:09,485
eight-bit experiences
were being created was
1054
00:44:09,485 --> 00:44:11,620
that little trailer behind the RV.
1055
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:14,764
- We order the circuit
boards in large volume,
1056
00:44:14,764 --> 00:44:17,388
and they come just like this, in a panel.
1057
00:44:17,388 --> 00:44:20,279
My partner is actually my brother,
1058
00:44:20,279 --> 00:44:22,969
does all of the circuit board soldering,
1059
00:44:22,969 --> 00:44:24,797
assembling and testing.
1060
00:44:24,797 --> 00:44:28,305
We have our USB device,
where you can just plug it in
1061
00:44:28,305 --> 00:44:32,673
and quickly program the game
on to the circuit board.
1062
00:44:32,673 --> 00:44:36,840
And so the circuit board
just goes in the cartridge.
1063
00:44:38,837 --> 00:44:39,845
The plastic's in.
1064
00:44:39,845 --> 00:44:40,961
You screw it together.
1065
00:44:40,961 --> 00:44:44,949
Package the game up in the same fashion
1066
00:44:44,949 --> 00:44:48,145
that you would've walked
into a store 30 years ago
1067
00:44:48,145 --> 00:44:50,381
to buy a Nintendo game off the shelves.
1068
00:44:50,381 --> 00:44:51,969
- If this works, it
will be the culmination
1069
00:44:51,969 --> 00:44:54,719
of like 30 years of anticipation.
1070
00:44:56,241 --> 00:44:59,017
Can we flash a thing to a cartridge?
1071
00:44:59,017 --> 00:45:00,141
- Here's hoping.
1072
00:45:00,141 --> 00:45:02,677
- Mystic Searches on a cartridge.
1073
00:45:02,677 --> 00:45:03,510
Nope.
1074
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,367
Now is this standard NES nonsense
1075
00:45:06,367 --> 00:45:07,986
of not being able to flash
thing to a cartridge,
1076
00:45:07,986 --> 00:45:10,243
or is it really not working?
1077
00:45:10,243 --> 00:45:11,450
Oh!
1078
00:45:14,167 --> 00:45:15,819
- Nice!
1079
00:45:15,819 --> 00:45:18,141
So officially, we could do it.
1080
00:45:18,141 --> 00:45:19,223
We have the technology.
1081
00:45:19,223 --> 00:45:21,366
But we'd spent so much time nerding out
1082
00:45:21,366 --> 00:45:22,847
over the technological side of things
1083
00:45:22,847 --> 00:45:26,071
that we'd kind of let the
creative side of the game slip.
1084
00:45:26,071 --> 00:45:27,451
It was time to shift gears and figure out
1085
00:45:27,451 --> 00:45:29,663
what this game was gonna be about.
1086
00:45:29,663 --> 00:45:31,588
- So games in the arcades,
in the early days, right,
1087
00:45:31,588 --> 00:45:34,183
the golden age of arcades,
really couldn't tell a story,
1088
00:45:34,183 --> 00:45:35,550
'cause it was really a high score.
1089
00:45:35,550 --> 00:45:37,386
They wanted people popping their quarters,
1090
00:45:37,386 --> 00:45:39,079
and they didn't want people
1091
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:40,406
to spend too much time on the machines.
1092
00:45:40,406 --> 00:45:43,497
Games for the ColecoVision
or the Atari 2600,
1093
00:45:43,497 --> 00:45:45,281
there were a lot of single-screen.
1094
00:45:45,281 --> 00:45:47,955
You have games like Pac-Man
and Donkey Kong, for example,
1095
00:45:47,955 --> 00:45:51,595
where the NES really
allowed gamers to go home,
1096
00:45:51,595 --> 00:45:52,875
really dive into the story.
1097
00:45:52,875 --> 00:45:54,004
They could save their game.
1098
00:45:54,004 --> 00:45:55,708
Look at where video games are today
1099
00:45:55,708 --> 00:45:56,896
with a lot of them are stories.
1100
00:45:56,896 --> 00:45:59,335
They're almost like movies, to a point.
1101
00:45:59,335 --> 00:46:02,231
And I think it really
started with the NES.
1102
00:46:03,879 --> 00:46:05,635
- I actually have some
drawings in that same box
1103
00:46:05,635 --> 00:46:07,193
that say Mystic Searches on it.
1104
00:46:07,193 --> 00:46:08,531
I don't know when that came about
1105
00:46:08,531 --> 00:46:09,983
or why it was called that, at all,
1106
00:46:09,983 --> 00:46:11,182
and I don't know if that was something
1107
00:46:11,182 --> 00:46:15,671
that we had come up with,
or that I had given to it.
1108
00:46:15,671 --> 00:46:17,575
I guess that's the name to go with.
1109
00:46:17,575 --> 00:46:19,075
We set up our first meeting with Elizabeth
1110
00:46:19,075 --> 00:46:22,359
to try and determine how
to pull an actual story out
1111
00:46:22,359 --> 00:46:24,279
of those eight-year-olds' illustrations.
1112
00:46:24,279 --> 00:46:26,946
- How could we make this fantasy
1113
00:46:27,863 --> 00:46:30,191
but at the same time not
let it be derivative?
1114
00:46:30,191 --> 00:46:31,707
- How much of what you created
1115
00:46:31,707 --> 00:46:34,540
when you were eight is fundamental
1116
00:46:35,659 --> 00:46:37,955
to the story of this game?
1117
00:46:37,955 --> 00:46:41,539
- I can go back to stuff that
I wrote when I was eight,
1118
00:46:41,539 --> 00:46:43,399
and we could base the story on that.
1119
00:46:43,399 --> 00:46:45,275
But if we do, it should
probably be loosely based
1120
00:46:45,275 --> 00:46:47,811
on the stuff that I wrote
when I was eight, 'cause
1121
00:46:47,811 --> 00:46:49,427
an eight-year-old wrote it.
- You were eight, yeah.
1122
00:46:49,427 --> 00:46:51,691
- Granted, a lot of media
in the world right now seems
1123
00:46:51,691 --> 00:46:53,731
like an eight-year-old
wrote it, but I aspire
1124
00:46:53,731 --> 00:46:56,521
to maybe make this a little
bit more interesting.
1125
00:46:56,521 --> 00:46:59,444
And it'd be really worth
examining, you know,
1126
00:46:59,444 --> 00:47:01,944
what is at the base of fantasy
1127
00:47:02,832 --> 00:47:05,262
that makes it--
- For sure.
1128
00:47:07,344 --> 00:47:08,388
To help answer that question,
1129
00:47:08,388 --> 00:47:09,817
Elizabeth traveled north
1130
00:47:09,817 --> 00:47:11,935
through mysterious swamps to meet
1131
00:47:11,935 --> 00:47:14,876
with 21-time Best Selling
fantasy novelist, Piers Anthony.
1132
00:47:14,876 --> 00:47:18,656
Besides being a prolific writer
of unique fantasy worlds,
1133
00:47:18,656 --> 00:47:21,296
his Incarnations of
Immortality series inspired me
1134
00:47:21,296 --> 00:47:23,183
to want to be a writer as a kid,
1135
00:47:23,183 --> 00:47:25,104
probably right around the same time
1136
00:47:25,104 --> 00:47:26,528
that I was drafting the first ideas
1137
00:47:26,528 --> 00:47:29,320
for the game world we were now building.
1138
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,748
- We're trying to create a fantasy world,
1139
00:47:32,748 --> 00:47:36,214
and yet it's very important that it's not,
1140
00:47:36,214 --> 00:47:38,916
it's not the same stuff
regurgitated again,
1141
00:47:38,916 --> 00:47:39,895
you know, with people.
1142
00:47:39,895 --> 00:47:42,200
There are thousands of
fantasy worlds out there.
1143
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,672
Why are we creating a new one?
1144
00:47:43,672 --> 00:47:45,255
What's different this time?
1145
00:47:45,255 --> 00:47:46,971
- I get credit for having a lot
1146
00:47:46,971 --> 00:47:48,662
of imagination, and I have a lot.
1147
00:47:48,662 --> 00:47:51,105
I have more imagination
than anybody I know.
1148
00:47:51,105 --> 00:47:53,188
But I get credit for more
1149
00:47:54,452 --> 00:47:55,637
than I actually have.
1150
00:47:55,637 --> 00:47:57,227
And Xanth is a good example,
1151
00:47:57,227 --> 00:48:00,739
because how do I invent
such a fantastic land?
1152
00:48:00,739 --> 00:48:01,915
Well, I took Florida.
1153
00:48:01,915 --> 00:48:02,960
I added magic.
1154
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,519
I adapt it.
1155
00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:07,228
The average reader wants to identify,
1156
00:48:07,228 --> 00:48:09,328
and you need to give him that chance.
1157
00:48:09,328 --> 00:48:14,051
- So creating a character who
everyone can identify with,
1158
00:48:14,051 --> 00:48:16,228
that's the challenge there, isn't it?
1159
00:48:16,228 --> 00:48:18,600
- You can get pretty fantastic,
1160
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,086
as long as you let the reader identify.
1161
00:48:21,086 --> 00:48:22,405
Yeah.
1162
00:48:22,405 --> 00:48:24,628
- So with Legend of Zelda, the story is
1163
00:48:24,628 --> 00:48:28,500
that Miyamoto based it on the
area around his house, right,
1164
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:30,298
his childhood adventures.
1165
00:48:30,298 --> 00:48:32,541
- The images for it was the adventures
1166
00:48:32,541 --> 00:48:33,804
that Miyamoto had when he was a kid,
1167
00:48:33,804 --> 00:48:36,504
exploring Kyoto and the
woods around his house
1168
00:48:36,504 --> 00:48:39,084
and being lost and finding a cave system,
1169
00:48:39,084 --> 00:48:40,879
and that sort of spawned this whole--
1170
00:48:40,879 --> 00:48:43,024
- So his childhood adventures became
1171
00:48:43,024 --> 00:48:44,856
everyone else's childhood adventure.
1172
00:48:44,856 --> 00:48:46,198
- Right.
1173
00:48:46,198 --> 00:48:49,347
In essence, I wonder if maybe
that's what we should look to,
1174
00:48:49,347 --> 00:48:51,596
as far as writing the
story for Mystic Searches.
1175
00:48:51,596 --> 00:48:54,085
Instead of studying world
mythologies and stuff like that,
1176
00:48:54,085 --> 00:48:54,928
sure, we could do that to a point,
1177
00:48:54,928 --> 00:48:57,339
but to make this uniquely our story,
1178
00:48:57,339 --> 00:49:00,265
why don't we look to those sort of icons
1179
00:49:00,265 --> 00:49:02,350
that we gave mythological
way to when we were kids?
1180
00:49:02,350 --> 00:49:03,433
- Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- You know, things
1181
00:49:03,433 --> 00:49:05,344
in my neighborhood and
my experiences growing up
1182
00:49:05,344 --> 00:49:07,043
and your experiences and
Elizabeth's experiences.
1183
00:49:07,043 --> 00:49:08,860
What do you remember
about where we grew up?
1184
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:12,084
- There was like the
turnoff into the woods.
1185
00:49:12,084 --> 00:49:15,188
And that was like the we're
gonna find Bigfoot back here.
1186
00:49:15,188 --> 00:49:16,021
Right!
1187
00:49:16,021 --> 00:49:18,885
- It looked like something
out of, like, It, from 1991.
1188
00:49:18,885 --> 00:49:20,120
That's what it looked like.
1189
00:49:21,704 --> 00:49:23,863
Obviously, we didn't have
a lot of ninja swords
1190
00:49:23,863 --> 00:49:27,029
where we grew up, so you
know, we're picking up a flute
1191
00:49:27,029 --> 00:49:28,693
and pretending it's a whatever,
1192
00:49:28,693 --> 00:49:30,512
or it's just being a flute.
1193
00:49:30,512 --> 00:49:33,300
- It would be gratifying
to bash the shit out
1194
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:35,961
of some creatures with guitars.
1195
00:49:35,961 --> 00:49:37,823
Absolutely.
1196
00:49:37,823 --> 00:49:39,932
Since music became
such a formative part
1197
00:49:39,932 --> 00:49:40,875
of both of our lives.
1198
00:49:41,818 --> 00:49:42,732
- Yeah, independently.
1199
00:49:42,732 --> 00:49:46,416
We could have a traveling
minstrel who is also the hero.
1200
00:49:48,168 --> 00:49:49,082
- There's a good thing.
1201
00:49:49,082 --> 00:49:50,642
The kung-fu grip on
the mandolin and just--
1202
00:49:54,938 --> 00:49:57,890
- One of our buddies, his mom said,
1203
00:49:57,890 --> 00:49:59,978
"Oh you shouldn't hang
out back in the woods,
1204
00:49:59,978 --> 00:50:01,730
"because that's where
the burnouts hang out."
1205
00:50:01,730 --> 00:50:04,670
There was no context for
what the burnouts were,
1206
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:08,662
so we invented this entire
mythology about this cult
1207
00:50:08,662 --> 00:50:10,988
of people that would
chase down children and--
1208
00:50:10,988 --> 00:50:11,821
- Burnouts.
1209
00:50:11,821 --> 00:50:13,071
- The burnouts.
1210
00:50:13,940 --> 00:50:15,059
Austin and I began to riff
1211
00:50:15,059 --> 00:50:17,072
about quirky urban legends we remembered
1212
00:50:17,072 --> 00:50:18,676
from our respective childhoods.
1213
00:50:18,676 --> 00:50:20,565
Growing up in Texas,
he remembered the bats.
1214
00:50:20,565 --> 00:50:22,379
And I had this story about a mall
1215
00:50:22,379 --> 00:50:24,811
that had apparently been
sinking into the swamp.
1216
00:50:24,811 --> 00:50:26,612
And we talked about a midway
that brought a ghost town
1217
00:50:26,612 --> 00:50:28,424
to life three months out of the year.
1218
00:50:28,424 --> 00:50:29,936
Meanwhile, Elizabeth traveled to London
1219
00:50:29,936 --> 00:50:31,736
to visit friends and family.
1220
00:50:31,736 --> 00:50:33,893
While she was there, she
found herself re-inspired
1221
00:50:33,893 --> 00:50:36,056
by the alchemy of diverse cultures
1222
00:50:36,056 --> 00:50:37,844
and the thousands of years of rich history
1223
00:50:37,844 --> 00:50:40,304
that served as the foundation
of the modern city.
1224
00:50:47,204 --> 00:50:49,293
And she wasn't the only one traveling.
1225
00:50:49,293 --> 00:50:51,304
I've actually always
felt a weird connection
1226
00:50:51,304 --> 00:50:52,317
to Mount St. Helens.
1227
00:50:52,317 --> 00:50:54,136
It erupted the day after I was born.
1228
00:50:54,136 --> 00:50:55,140
- Oh wow.
1229
00:50:55,140 --> 00:50:57,632
- I actually have a vial
of ash from the eruption.
1230
00:50:57,632 --> 00:51:02,220
It's right on my desk, right
where I'm programming the game.
1231
00:51:02,220 --> 00:51:03,600
We traveled to the Pacific Northwest
1232
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,856
to check out the Portland
Retro Gaming Expo's swap meet.
1233
00:51:06,856 --> 00:51:10,008
It was like a massive
retro gaming trading post.
1234
00:51:10,008 --> 00:51:11,160
There, we met John Hancock,
1235
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,548
who had probably the most
comprehensive collection
1236
00:51:13,548 --> 00:51:15,316
of video games I'd ever seen,
1237
00:51:15,316 --> 00:51:17,206
including a host of homebrews.
1238
00:51:17,206 --> 00:51:19,172
- I think the thing that's
important is to remember
1239
00:51:19,172 --> 00:51:21,653
that passion of playing
that eight-bit experience,
1240
00:51:21,653 --> 00:51:24,822
and if you can translate
that into your new project,
1241
00:51:24,822 --> 00:51:28,918
you're gonna have a whole
gaming community behind you.
1242
00:51:28,918 --> 00:51:30,101
But unfortunately, the travel
1243
00:51:30,101 --> 00:51:32,990
to Portland wasn't
exclusively for the project.
1244
00:51:32,990 --> 00:51:35,630
- So I went to visit my grandmother,
1245
00:51:35,630 --> 00:51:40,126
because she's slipping
deeper into dementia.
1246
00:51:40,126 --> 00:51:43,323
I think that they were
cleaning out some of her stuff
1247
00:51:43,323 --> 00:51:46,029
that they brought from Texas.
1248
00:51:46,029 --> 00:51:49,635
And there were a bunch
of things of my dad's
1249
00:51:49,635 --> 00:51:52,310
that I didn't know that she still had.
1250
00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:53,911
Apparently he was wearing this belt buckle
1251
00:51:53,911 --> 00:51:55,494
when he was killed.
1252
00:51:56,667 --> 00:51:59,684
It's funny that we're out here exploring
1253
00:51:59,684 --> 00:52:03,767
a fantasy narrative, and
I discovered a talisman.
1254
00:52:09,228 --> 00:52:11,044
I feel like the idea of relics
1255
00:52:11,044 --> 00:52:14,284
and artifacts should be
integral to the gameplay,
1256
00:52:14,284 --> 00:52:16,742
'cause we keep running into these.
1257
00:52:16,742 --> 00:52:18,992
The whole project started
when you found the NES carts.
1258
00:52:18,992 --> 00:52:23,159
So the game itself began
when you found an artifact.
1259
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:30,310
- One of the great things
about the NES was the music.
1260
00:52:30,310 --> 00:52:32,440
It is a lot more complex
1261
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,436
and nuanced than you would even expect it
1262
00:52:35,436 --> 00:52:37,148
to be able to be most of the time.
1263
00:52:37,148 --> 00:52:38,316
Those iconic melodies
1264
00:52:38,316 --> 00:52:40,536
from the eight-bit era had outlasted most
1265
00:52:40,536 --> 00:52:42,152
of the pop music of the time.
1266
00:52:42,152 --> 00:52:44,507
And those melodies were
often reimagined as anthems
1267
00:52:44,507 --> 00:52:47,773
by rock bands like Bit
Brigade at events MAGFest.
1268
00:52:47,773 --> 00:52:48,812
- It kind of adheres to the concept
1269
00:52:48,812 --> 00:52:50,908
that adversity breeds good art.
1270
00:52:50,908 --> 00:52:53,368
You just have certain restrictions
you have to deal with.
1271
00:52:53,368 --> 00:52:55,465
And that bred this
really interesting genre
1272
00:52:55,465 --> 00:52:57,116
of cool music that I'm into.
1273
00:52:57,116 --> 00:52:59,096
You know, the fact that
it's video game music
1274
00:52:59,096 --> 00:53:00,912
is not necessarily why I dig it.
1275
00:53:00,912 --> 00:53:02,255
I dig it, 'cause it's good, it's cool.
1276
00:53:02,255 --> 00:53:05,195
It's interesting, and it's
got its own unique voice to it
1277
00:53:05,195 --> 00:53:07,144
that doesn't exist in other places.
1278
00:53:07,144 --> 00:53:07,977
And it was great to know
1279
00:53:07,977 --> 00:53:10,486
that this music could be
appreciated in that way.
1280
00:53:10,486 --> 00:53:12,515
But I needed to go the other direction.
1281
00:53:12,515 --> 00:53:14,221
While bands like Bit
Brigade were arranging
1282
00:53:14,221 --> 00:53:16,743
classic video game music
for a modern rock band,
1283
00:53:16,743 --> 00:53:18,439
I needed to learn how to devolve music
1284
00:53:18,439 --> 00:53:22,338
into what sounded like a
classic video game soundtrack.
1285
00:53:22,338 --> 00:53:25,622
I found this kind of descendant
of MAGFest called MAGStock.
1286
00:53:25,622 --> 00:53:27,575
It was this outdoor camping festival
1287
00:53:27,575 --> 00:53:30,663
that featured chiptune artists
creating original music
1288
00:53:30,663 --> 00:53:32,953
in that style, and while musicians sitting
1289
00:53:32,953 --> 00:53:36,431
around a campfire making music
was as old as music itself,
1290
00:53:36,431 --> 00:53:38,263
it was completely unexpected
to see the instruments
1291
00:53:38,263 --> 00:53:41,191
of choice be laptops
and modified Game Boys.
1292
00:53:41,191 --> 00:53:43,829
- So on an NES, we have two channels
1293
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:45,331
that can generate square waves.
1294
00:53:45,331 --> 00:53:48,089
And the square wave is
literally just a wave
1295
00:53:48,089 --> 00:53:51,451
like a sound wave that
looks like a square.
1296
00:53:55,575 --> 00:53:56,899
Sounds kind of like that.
1297
00:53:56,899 --> 00:53:58,811
You also have a triangle wave,
1298
00:53:58,811 --> 00:54:01,552
which a lot of people have used for bass.
1299
00:54:01,552 --> 00:54:06,378
I'm just gonna, yeah.
1300
00:54:06,378 --> 00:54:09,009
Again, just, you know,
1301
00:54:09,009 --> 00:54:11,361
a sound wave that looks like a triangle.
1302
00:54:11,361 --> 00:54:13,694
And then last but not least,
1303
00:54:15,789 --> 00:54:17,638
you have your white
noise, which is just...
1304
00:54:19,259 --> 00:54:20,217
Fuzz.
1305
00:54:20,217 --> 00:54:21,050
- I'd really be curious
1306
00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:25,310
to see how you take to
working with two square waves,
1307
00:54:25,310 --> 00:54:26,670
a triangle wave and a noise channel,
1308
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:28,175
and that's what you get,
1309
00:54:28,175 --> 00:54:31,416
and you have to create an
emotive sort of soundtrack.
1310
00:54:31,416 --> 00:54:32,634
- Basically, writing a piece of music
1311
00:54:32,634 --> 00:54:35,426
that had all of the themes
in it, all of the movements,
1312
00:54:35,426 --> 00:54:38,991
your adventure, your main
character, your bad guy,
1313
00:54:38,991 --> 00:54:40,837
and you know, you just write it that way.
1314
00:54:40,837 --> 00:54:42,558
So you can have 10 movements if you want,
1315
00:54:42,558 --> 00:54:44,142
but the simpler the better.
1316
00:54:44,142 --> 00:54:46,233
- Would you sit down at
a piano and pluck it out,
1317
00:54:46,233 --> 00:54:47,928
or would you use the actual instrument
1318
00:54:47,928 --> 00:54:49,140
that it would end up sounding like?
1319
00:54:49,140 --> 00:54:52,361
- I would probably use
the instrument that,
1320
00:54:52,361 --> 00:54:54,644
whatever instrument I have the idea on,
1321
00:54:54,644 --> 00:54:56,067
I would use to come up with the idea
1322
00:54:56,067 --> 00:54:57,164
and then translate it.
1323
00:54:57,164 --> 00:54:59,245
I mean, we do that all
the time, making score.
1324
00:54:59,245 --> 00:55:02,877
I'll write something on
piano or guitar or percussion
1325
00:55:02,877 --> 00:55:04,636
and then turn it into a glockenspiel
1326
00:55:04,636 --> 00:55:06,296
or a cello--
- Right.
1327
00:55:06,296 --> 00:55:08,238
- There's just a different
bunch of choices.
1328
00:55:08,238 --> 00:55:09,091
- Sure.
1329
00:55:18,227 --> 00:55:20,352
And that's kind of the
basis for our hero theme,
1330
00:55:20,352 --> 00:55:21,602
that sort of...
1331
00:55:22,809 --> 00:55:25,465
♪ Da, da, da, da ♪
1332
00:55:25,465 --> 00:55:28,382
♪ Da-da-duh, da da ♪
1333
00:55:30,161 --> 00:55:31,676
And you're gonna hear that motif come back
1334
00:55:31,676 --> 00:55:32,845
over and over again.
1335
00:55:32,845 --> 00:55:35,321
That's gonna be sort of like
that's our hero's theme, right.
1336
00:55:35,321 --> 00:55:36,917
So we're gonna keep morphing that
1337
00:55:36,917 --> 00:55:38,737
as he goes through different
parts of his journey,
1338
00:55:38,737 --> 00:55:40,385
and he's facing different adversaries.
1339
00:55:40,385 --> 00:55:41,961
And it's gonna mutate and change,
1340
00:55:41,961 --> 00:55:43,553
but that's the sort of main motif.
1341
00:55:43,553 --> 00:55:46,233
It's gonna keep cycling back through.
1342
00:55:46,233 --> 00:55:48,001
So at this point, all
the creatives involved
1343
00:55:48,001 --> 00:55:49,766
in the project had done a thing.
1344
00:55:49,766 --> 00:55:51,758
We flexed our respective creative muscles
1345
00:55:51,758 --> 00:55:53,686
and did what we did.
1346
00:55:53,686 --> 00:55:54,519
You're really starting
1347
00:55:54,519 --> 00:55:57,922
to see this compelling fantasy
narrative sort of evolving
1348
00:55:57,922 --> 00:56:00,994
from our collective visions.
1349
00:56:00,994 --> 00:56:04,981
That's when we all started
to feel the immense pressure
1350
00:56:04,981 --> 00:56:06,526
of the constraints of the system.
1351
00:56:12,051 --> 00:56:14,841
All right, so here's a fun, new wrinkle,
1352
00:56:14,841 --> 00:56:16,531
not really a bug, 'cause
I figured out the problem,
1353
00:56:16,531 --> 00:56:18,947
but here's the problem.
1354
00:56:18,947 --> 00:56:21,219
It says value out of range
when I run the assembler.
1355
00:56:22,868 --> 00:56:25,951
- That means that we're out of space.
1356
00:56:26,810 --> 00:56:27,643
- We got like
1357
00:56:27,643 --> 00:56:29,080
nine screens in the game.
- Nine screens, yeah.
1358
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,487
Maybe 1/10 of the functionality
that we had intended,
1359
00:56:32,487 --> 00:56:36,654
and you know, maybe 1% of the
graphics that we had planned.
1360
00:56:37,893 --> 00:56:38,760
Let me give it some perspective
1361
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,564
as to just how little space
we're talking about here.
1362
00:56:41,564 --> 00:56:44,460
The maximum size for our
game was 512 kilobytes,
1363
00:56:44,460 --> 00:56:46,062
but even that's a little misleading,
1364
00:56:46,062 --> 00:56:49,604
because the system could only
see 32 kilobytes at a time.
1365
00:56:49,604 --> 00:56:51,524
The way that most games
get around this problem is
1366
00:56:51,524 --> 00:56:54,328
that they would load different
groups of data called banks,
1367
00:56:54,328 --> 00:56:55,556
but no matter what you did to try
1368
00:56:55,556 --> 00:56:57,856
and cram more programming
data into that cartridge,
1369
00:56:57,856 --> 00:56:59,236
the system could only ever see,
1370
00:56:59,236 --> 00:57:02,364
at maximum, 32 kilobytes at a time.
1371
00:57:02,364 --> 00:57:03,595
So compare that to a modern game
1372
00:57:03,595 --> 00:57:05,461
that we might consider
small, like a casual game,
1373
00:57:05,461 --> 00:57:07,278
something for your iPhone, Angry Birds.
1374
00:57:07,278 --> 00:57:10,744
The latest Angry Birds
app was 37 megabytes.
1375
00:57:10,744 --> 00:57:11,782
So we're talking about trying
1376
00:57:11,782 --> 00:57:13,657
to build this epic adventure game
1377
00:57:13,657 --> 00:57:17,226
in 1/1000 the programming
space of Angry Birds.
1378
00:57:17,226 --> 00:57:19,607
- So when you want to make a game,
1379
00:57:19,607 --> 00:57:22,035
especially if it's your
first game, first of all,
1380
00:57:22,035 --> 00:57:24,015
you need to take all your ideas
1381
00:57:24,015 --> 00:57:26,731
and just go ahead and cut off the top 99%
1382
00:57:26,731 --> 00:57:28,046
of what you want to include in this game,
1383
00:57:28,931 --> 00:57:30,215
'cause it's not gonna happen.
1384
00:57:30,215 --> 00:57:32,102
- I got good ideas.
- No, I'm sure you do.
1385
00:57:32,102 --> 00:57:33,479
It's just not gonna happen.
1386
00:57:33,479 --> 00:57:34,615
And then you need to take
1387
00:57:34,615 --> 00:57:36,523
however long you think it's gonna take you
1388
00:57:36,523 --> 00:57:37,991
and go ahead and double it.
1389
00:57:37,991 --> 00:57:41,663
And that'll be close to how
long it's gonna take you
1390
00:57:41,663 --> 00:57:42,983
to make this first game.
1391
00:57:42,983 --> 00:57:43,816
I met with Elizabeth
1392
00:57:43,816 --> 00:57:45,575
to find out her progress in the game.
1393
00:57:45,575 --> 00:57:47,853
She had done exactly
what we asked her to do.
1394
00:57:47,853 --> 00:57:50,435
She took all the iconography
and threaded it together
1395
00:57:50,435 --> 00:57:53,704
to create this really
compelling, complex narrative.
1396
00:57:53,704 --> 00:57:55,895
And as I read her pages of brainstorming,
1397
00:57:55,895 --> 00:57:58,551
I felt my heart begin to sink.
1398
00:57:58,551 --> 00:57:59,659
A little
bit of foreshadowing
1399
00:57:59,659 --> 00:58:02,168
into how he's gonna conduct himself
1400
00:58:02,168 --> 00:58:03,627
throughout the rest of the story.
1401
00:58:03,627 --> 00:58:06,835
- So okay, this is beautiful.
1402
00:58:06,835 --> 00:58:10,227
We're playing with some
beautiful thematic elements.
1403
00:58:10,227 --> 00:58:13,930
I love the string of hearing
the song of the world,
1404
00:58:13,930 --> 00:58:15,513
seeing the shadows.
1405
00:58:16,611 --> 00:58:17,611
I love that.
1406
00:58:20,871 --> 00:58:22,251
I don't know how we can convey that.
1407
00:58:22,251 --> 00:58:25,864
Like, I don't even know
how we can suggest that.
1408
00:58:25,864 --> 00:58:30,031
We're gonna have such limited
verbiage to work with.
1409
00:58:31,025 --> 00:58:32,692
- All right, so, um,
1410
00:58:35,015 --> 00:58:37,848
how much verbiage do we have then?
1411
00:58:39,547 --> 00:58:41,880
- Worst-case scenario, none.
1412
00:58:42,947 --> 00:58:46,280
And it's done with imagery and gameplay,
1413
00:58:47,222 --> 00:58:49,055
and, you know, like...
1414
00:58:53,479 --> 00:58:54,729
- Okay, so, um,
1415
00:58:57,287 --> 00:58:58,247
okay, well, then we need
1416
00:58:58,247 --> 00:58:59,222
to talk about--
- I mean, this,
1417
00:58:59,222 --> 00:59:00,055
well, this is good.
1418
00:59:00,055 --> 00:59:01,446
I mean, we need context.
1419
00:59:01,446 --> 00:59:06,193
This is awesome, and it
creates a very beautiful world
1420
00:59:06,193 --> 00:59:09,193
for us to begin, you know, crafting.
1421
00:59:10,665 --> 00:59:13,169
It makes the world much more real.
1422
00:59:13,169 --> 00:59:16,002
And this is so much more specific.
1423
00:59:18,344 --> 00:59:19,920
How could I phrase it so that someone
1424
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,087
who didn't speak technology
could easily understand?
1425
00:59:25,285 --> 00:59:28,409
So okay, to put it in perspective,
1426
00:59:28,409 --> 00:59:31,441
so this is the information
for the text document
1427
00:59:31,441 --> 00:59:33,857
that you just showed to me, all right.
1428
00:59:33,857 --> 00:59:38,082
This is 2.43 megabytes,
small text file, right.
1429
00:59:38,082 --> 00:59:42,249
The game we're making has to
fit inside of 512 kilobytes,
1430
00:59:44,025 --> 00:59:47,003
like 1/5 the size of this text
document, the entire game.
1431
00:59:47,003 --> 00:59:48,745
We're not just talking
about the text in the game.
1432
00:59:48,745 --> 00:59:51,273
I'm talking about the
text and the graphics
1433
00:59:51,273 --> 00:59:53,465
and the music, and all
the programming, mechanics
1434
00:59:53,465 --> 00:59:56,413
and functionability is
gonna be 1/5 the size
1435
00:59:56,413 --> 00:59:59,366
of that text document that
you've got up right now.
1436
00:59:59,366 --> 01:00:02,322
So in talking about reduction,
1437
01:00:02,322 --> 01:00:04,422
when I start freaking
out over , over,
1438
01:00:04,422 --> 01:00:06,634
see, it's not because the
world that you're building
1439
01:00:06,634 --> 01:00:10,038
isn't absolutely gorgeous and beautiful.
1440
01:00:10,038 --> 01:00:13,863
When I say I don't know how
we're gonna make it fit,
1441
01:00:13,863 --> 01:00:16,758
that's what I'm talking about.
1442
01:00:16,758 --> 01:00:18,639
- So let's say for example then,
1443
01:00:18,639 --> 01:00:21,994
that you've created this incredible world,
1444
01:00:21,994 --> 01:00:26,042
and you need to put it on to a platform
1445
01:00:26,042 --> 01:00:30,482
that only allows five
of your main good ideas,
1446
01:00:30,482 --> 01:00:32,734
and you don't want to change the story,
1447
01:00:32,734 --> 01:00:34,937
and you don't want to
compromise on the integrity
1448
01:00:34,937 --> 01:00:38,858
of your work, how are you
gonna take this incredible,
1449
01:00:38,858 --> 01:00:41,122
rich and diverse world--
1450
01:00:41,122 --> 01:00:42,474
- I would have a problem.
1451
01:00:43,882 --> 01:00:46,318
, it would
be like cutting off your hands
1452
01:00:46,318 --> 01:00:48,097
and feet to make yourself fit.
1453
01:00:48,097 --> 01:00:48,930
- Right.
1454
01:00:48,930 --> 01:00:50,278
Right.
1455
01:00:50,278 --> 01:00:54,519
- Which is one of my complaints
about editing, the editor.
1456
01:00:54,519 --> 01:00:57,441
I mean, I left my best
publisher, because the editor,
1457
01:00:57,441 --> 01:01:00,327
he cut out a whole first
chapter of a Xanth novel.
1458
01:01:00,327 --> 01:01:02,251
He didn't know why that hurt me.
1459
01:01:02,251 --> 01:01:04,931
My parallel for that is the
editor may say, you know,
1460
01:01:04,931 --> 01:01:06,295
"You're right
1461
01:01:06,295 --> 01:01:08,035
"So your left hand is inferior, right?"
1462
01:01:08,035 --> 01:01:08,868
"Yeah."
1463
01:01:08,868 --> 01:01:09,879
"Okay, so I'm gonna do you a favor.
1464
01:01:09,879 --> 01:01:12,577
"I'm gonna make you better by
cutting off your left hand."
1465
01:01:12,577 --> 01:01:13,410
- Yeah.
1466
01:01:13,410 --> 01:01:15,511
- And he will not
understand why you object.
1467
01:01:15,511 --> 01:01:17,083
- Yeah.
1468
01:01:17,083 --> 01:01:19,704
And Austin wasn't
faring much better.
1469
01:01:19,704 --> 01:01:23,260
- So we've run into almost
a narrative dilemma here,
1470
01:01:23,260 --> 01:01:27,611
because, you know, this character
we've created, he's young.
1471
01:01:27,611 --> 01:01:29,863
He's kind of a vagabond.
1472
01:01:29,863 --> 01:01:33,431
He's a musician but also
a little bit magical,
1473
01:01:33,431 --> 01:01:35,019
because he's a student of magic.
1474
01:01:35,019 --> 01:01:36,835
How am I supposed to convey that
1475
01:01:36,835 --> 01:01:39,335
in 16 pixels and three colors?
1476
01:01:40,191 --> 01:01:41,891
So this was the concept.
1477
01:01:41,891 --> 01:01:45,027
When you start reducing him down,
1478
01:01:45,027 --> 01:01:46,663
16 wide, you know, obviously,
1479
01:01:46,663 --> 01:01:49,631
all that detail just
completely disappears.
1480
01:01:49,631 --> 01:01:51,715
- Is that, so...
1481
01:01:51,715 --> 01:01:54,893
- And then when you start
getting rid of colors,
1482
01:01:54,893 --> 01:01:58,523
I started with, like, an
overlay and just to try
1483
01:01:58,523 --> 01:02:02,690
and get the basic scale and
shape of this sort of thing.
1484
01:02:05,047 --> 01:02:06,635
That's the best I came up with.
1485
01:02:07,944 --> 01:02:09,307
He looks like a drained Smurf.
1486
01:02:09,307 --> 01:02:10,891
Drained Smurf, I like that, yeah.
1487
01:02:10,891 --> 01:02:12,724
- Yeah, it's not good.
1488
01:02:13,863 --> 01:02:16,958
So yeah, that's harder than I thought.
1489
01:02:16,958 --> 01:02:19,090
It's crushing to have to destroy them
1490
01:02:19,090 --> 01:02:21,423
by reducing them to nothing,
1491
01:02:23,091 --> 01:02:27,258
to 16 pixels wide by 24 high
and three colors, you know.
1492
01:02:29,055 --> 01:02:31,532
That's zero visual information.
1493
01:02:31,532 --> 01:02:33,299
So I guess what I'm wondering is
1494
01:02:33,299 --> 01:02:37,316
is the concept art creating
an unrealistic expectation
1495
01:02:37,316 --> 01:02:40,919
for what we can actually do in sprites.
1496
01:02:40,919 --> 01:02:41,936
I stress the importance
1497
01:02:41,936 --> 01:02:43,394
of concepting everything out first,
1498
01:02:43,394 --> 01:02:45,780
but he pushed back suggesting
maybe it was a waste
1499
01:02:45,780 --> 01:02:47,713
of time and even counterproductive not
1500
01:02:47,713 --> 01:02:49,890
to just jump straight to the sprites.
1501
01:02:49,890 --> 01:02:51,362
Truth is, neither of
us knew how it was done
1502
01:02:51,362 --> 01:02:52,299
back in the '80s.
1503
01:02:52,299 --> 01:02:56,123
- At that time period,
from like '85 to '94,
1504
01:02:56,123 --> 01:03:00,290
you relied heavily on
illustrators to sell the game
1505
01:03:01,291 --> 01:03:02,387
through their box art.
1506
01:03:02,387 --> 01:03:03,626
And it was a great time.
1507
01:03:03,626 --> 01:03:06,506
It was a very exciting time
if you were in the arts,
1508
01:03:06,506 --> 01:03:08,693
and you were an illustrator,
1509
01:03:08,693 --> 01:03:10,838
to be doing this kind of packaging.
1510
01:03:10,838 --> 01:03:12,983
- Dragon Quest, where
we had Akira Toriyama,
1511
01:03:12,983 --> 01:03:14,671
who was known for his work in manga.
1512
01:03:14,671 --> 01:03:18,015
Here is a premier comic artist.
1513
01:03:18,015 --> 01:03:21,612
And Enix runs out and says,
"Hey, we got to get this guy,
1514
01:03:21,612 --> 01:03:22,631
"and we got to put his art in the game.
1515
01:03:22,631 --> 01:03:23,839
"We got to do it right now."
1516
01:03:23,839 --> 01:03:26,047
And he makes little
Akira Toriyama characters
1517
01:03:26,047 --> 01:03:27,547
that remain iconic to this day.
1518
01:03:27,547 --> 01:03:30,030
Characters like Slime or
Dracky are some of those.
1519
01:03:30,030 --> 01:03:31,672
And at the same time,
there's character portraits
1520
01:03:31,672 --> 01:03:33,195
that became a part of the series.
1521
01:03:33,195 --> 01:03:34,492
And you would look at the, you know,
1522
01:03:34,492 --> 01:03:36,455
the Japanese box for Dragon Quest,
1523
01:03:36,455 --> 01:03:37,910
which was Dragon Warrior here.
1524
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:39,309
You look at the Japanese box of that,
1525
01:03:39,309 --> 01:03:40,582
and you look at the art in the game,
1526
01:03:40,582 --> 01:03:41,810
and they actually resemble one another.
1527
01:03:41,810 --> 01:03:43,790
- Oh yeah, I remember
the player guide of that.
1528
01:03:43,790 --> 01:03:44,677
It's still on my shelf.
1529
01:03:44,677 --> 01:03:46,881
It's the most amazing game art.
1530
01:03:46,881 --> 01:03:48,893
That's what I'm aspiring to here.
1531
01:03:48,893 --> 01:03:50,049
- Right, so there were situations
1532
01:03:50,049 --> 01:03:51,457
where it began as a concept,
1533
01:03:51,457 --> 01:03:53,197
and then it was adapted that way.
1534
01:03:53,197 --> 01:03:54,481
Interesting, okay.
1535
01:03:54,481 --> 01:03:56,987
- Having somebody around, a creative team,
1536
01:03:56,987 --> 01:03:59,775
that's into it enough
to create a vision of it
1537
01:03:59,775 --> 01:04:02,700
for the rest of the team
has got to be necessary.
1538
01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:05,532
And my classic example is Mega Man 2,
1539
01:04:05,532 --> 01:04:09,224
where there was a complete
disconnect between sales
1540
01:04:09,224 --> 01:04:11,316
and the people that were doing the game.
1541
01:04:11,316 --> 01:04:15,100
I love the Mega Man character he became.
1542
01:04:15,100 --> 01:04:16,990
But I mean, when they handed it to me,
1543
01:04:16,990 --> 01:04:20,862
with no drawing beforehand
and nothing to go on,
1544
01:04:20,862 --> 01:04:23,354
and they said, "Draw us a Mega Man,"
1545
01:04:23,354 --> 01:04:24,706
well, I was thinking man.
1546
01:04:24,706 --> 01:04:26,338
I drew a mega man, you know.
1547
01:04:26,338 --> 01:04:30,126
And , and like
Superman, you know, Batman,
1548
01:04:30,126 --> 01:04:31,566
let's draw Mega Man.
1549
01:04:31,566 --> 01:04:32,747
So I drew him.
1550
01:04:32,747 --> 01:04:35,570
And so there I was, left 30 years later,
1551
01:04:35,570 --> 01:04:37,910
twisting in the wind with
my art being called one
1552
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:41,077
of the 50 worst game pieces ever done.
1553
01:04:42,106 --> 01:04:45,422
How could that illustrator
be such an idiot?
1554
01:04:45,422 --> 01:04:47,935
Nobody showed me any drawings.
1555
01:04:47,935 --> 01:04:51,202
So I think drawings are critical, always.
1556
01:04:51,202 --> 01:04:53,226
- I couldn't just start
out on graph paper.
1557
01:04:53,226 --> 01:04:54,647
I didn't have enough knowledge yet
1558
01:04:54,647 --> 01:04:56,405
of working in that limitation.
1559
01:04:56,405 --> 01:04:59,852
So I'd still spend time drawing
out a full illustration,
1560
01:04:59,852 --> 01:05:01,827
which wasn't wasted, 'cause
we were able to put that art
1561
01:05:01,827 --> 01:05:03,763
into the manuals, when they had manuals
1562
01:05:03,763 --> 01:05:05,151
back then, right?
- Sure, yeah, yeah.
1563
01:05:05,151 --> 01:05:07,419
- And that was great,
because what we found
1564
01:05:07,419 --> 01:05:09,741
that it did is it, when
somebody got the game,
1565
01:05:09,741 --> 01:05:11,259
and they opened up their
little treasure box,
1566
01:05:11,259 --> 01:05:12,934
and they started looking
through the manual and looking
1567
01:05:12,934 --> 01:05:16,144
at the characters, it started
to visually give them an idea
1568
01:05:16,144 --> 01:05:19,236
of all the detail, all the
nuances, all the facets
1569
01:05:19,236 --> 01:05:20,947
that made this character up.
1570
01:05:20,947 --> 01:05:25,176
So they were able to take that
impression on to the screen
1571
01:05:25,176 --> 01:05:26,433
with the very limited character,
1572
01:05:26,433 --> 01:05:28,236
but they were able to
see the mystery scar.
1573
01:05:28,236 --> 01:05:30,816
They were able to see
the satchels and packs.
1574
01:05:30,816 --> 01:05:33,352
When all it was was
maybe three brown pixels.
1575
01:05:33,352 --> 01:05:35,256
As for me, working
within these constraints
1576
01:05:35,256 --> 01:05:38,465
had me questioning my
ability as a musician.
1577
01:05:39,384 --> 01:05:42,992
- Can't just take an MP3
and play it through you NES.
1578
01:05:42,992 --> 01:05:45,939
Back in, I think it was '98 or '99,
1579
01:05:45,939 --> 01:05:47,112
I had been waiting for someone
1580
01:05:47,112 --> 01:05:49,108
to come up with a audio format
1581
01:05:49,108 --> 01:05:51,236
for the NES and nobody did it.
1582
01:05:51,236 --> 01:05:52,773
So I finally, one day, decided okay,
1583
01:05:52,773 --> 01:05:53,684
I'm sick and tired of it.
1584
01:05:53,684 --> 01:05:54,820
I'm gonna do it.
1585
01:05:54,820 --> 01:05:58,046
The code manipulates these
audio channel registers
1586
01:05:58,046 --> 01:06:00,177
to square waves, the
triangle, the noise channel
1587
01:06:00,177 --> 01:06:03,550
and the digitized channel
to actually make the music.
1588
01:06:05,421 --> 01:06:07,267
- When I sit down to write a metal tune,
1589
01:06:07,267 --> 01:06:08,558
the song is written already.
1590
01:06:08,558 --> 01:06:10,402
I've been thinking about
it for the past few days
1591
01:06:10,402 --> 01:06:11,235
or the past few hours.
1592
01:06:11,235 --> 01:06:13,966
Maybe it's a eureka moment, or
I wake up with a crazy dream,
1593
01:06:13,966 --> 01:06:14,986
get over to the studio,
1594
01:06:14,986 --> 01:06:15,819
and it's there.
1595
01:06:15,819 --> 01:06:18,786
And I just .
1596
01:06:18,786 --> 01:06:20,604
And just go as fast as
I can and get it out
1597
01:06:20,604 --> 01:06:22,714
before it evaporates.
1598
01:06:22,714 --> 01:06:25,019
With NES, you don't have that luxury.
1599
01:06:25,019 --> 01:06:26,597
You try to get your ideas out.
1600
01:06:26,597 --> 01:06:28,354
You fail over and over and over again,
1601
01:06:28,354 --> 01:06:31,126
and you refine the song
until it makes sense.
1602
01:06:31,126 --> 01:06:35,025
So it completely changes the
way that you write music.
1603
01:06:35,025 --> 01:06:37,502
It's impossible to improvise the same way
1604
01:06:37,502 --> 01:06:39,068
that you do on a live instrument.
1605
01:06:39,068 --> 01:06:41,141
- You know, I would write some things,
1606
01:06:41,141 --> 01:06:42,767
and then I'd get 'em in a MIDI file,
1607
01:06:42,767 --> 01:06:45,076
and then they had to
translate the MIDI file
1608
01:06:45,076 --> 01:06:47,664
to an ASCII file, which basically ended up
1609
01:06:47,664 --> 01:06:50,067
just being a paragraph of numbers.
1610
01:06:50,067 --> 01:06:54,027
It was eight boxes across
and eight boxes down.
1611
01:06:54,027 --> 01:06:56,055
So I had 64 boxes.
1612
01:06:56,055 --> 01:07:00,222
And so each of those little
boxes represented something that
1613
01:07:01,667 --> 01:07:03,891
that wave could've done.
1614
01:07:03,891 --> 01:07:06,635
And that's how I would try to make sounds.
1615
01:07:06,635 --> 01:07:08,691
- You have to learn how
to program a spreadsheet.
1616
01:07:08,691 --> 01:07:09,995
And it's really, really limited,
1617
01:07:09,995 --> 01:07:12,487
and it's really difficult
to get your mind around it.
1618
01:07:12,487 --> 01:07:14,451
- If we were to start with, you know,
1619
01:07:14,451 --> 01:07:17,629
some basic chordal progressions,
1620
01:07:17,629 --> 01:07:20,613
so we can establish
sort of mode, you know,
1621
01:07:20,613 --> 01:07:23,315
to give it sort of an emotive feel.
1622
01:07:23,315 --> 01:07:26,227
Back to that A suspended to an E minor.
1623
01:07:26,227 --> 01:07:27,060
- Okay.
1624
01:07:27,060 --> 01:07:28,049
- So basically we're going...
1625
01:07:34,606 --> 01:07:36,391
There we go.
1626
01:07:36,391 --> 01:07:38,019
If you want to make it a
little prettier than that.
1627
01:07:38,019 --> 01:07:38,852
- Sure.
1628
01:07:38,852 --> 01:07:41,238
- How do you translate, you know,
1629
01:07:41,238 --> 01:07:43,001
I strummed a guitar chord,
1630
01:07:44,758 --> 01:07:46,008
then over to...
1631
01:07:51,358 --> 01:07:54,198
Literally, you are rehearsed
1632
01:07:54,198 --> 01:07:56,826
in playing music with a keyboard,
1633
01:07:56,826 --> 01:07:58,473
with a computer keyboard
- With a QWERTY keyboard.
1634
01:07:58,473 --> 01:07:59,318
- With a QWERTY keyboard.
1635
01:08:16,046 --> 01:08:17,634
But it was like trying
to create music this way
1636
01:08:17,634 --> 01:08:20,386
was activating the wrong side
of my brain or something.
1637
01:08:20,386 --> 01:08:24,078
I couldn't create anything
that I considered compelling.
1638
01:08:24,078 --> 01:08:26,053
And trying to split my
attention between that
1639
01:08:26,053 --> 01:08:28,949
and the coding was so draining,
1640
01:08:28,949 --> 01:08:32,565
especially when the code started to break.
1641
01:08:32,565 --> 01:08:33,440
Everything's fine, right?
1642
01:08:33,440 --> 01:08:35,465
Everything's playing
the way that it should,
1643
01:08:35,465 --> 01:08:36,621
and then yada, yada, yada,
1644
01:08:36,621 --> 01:08:39,648
I'm walking along, da, da, and then...
1645
01:08:39,648 --> 01:08:40,740
Oh.
1646
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:44,504
Like, I don't know what could cause that.
1647
01:08:44,504 --> 01:08:46,345
I don't know what.
1648
01:08:46,345 --> 01:08:47,533
- Oh.
1649
01:08:47,533 --> 01:08:48,550
- Yeah.
- It's getting worse.
1650
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:50,113
- And it gets worse and worse.
1651
01:08:50,113 --> 01:08:52,987
And then all of a sudden,
it completely breaks.
1652
01:08:52,987 --> 01:08:54,863
You know, I started to look
through and tried, you know,
1653
01:08:54,863 --> 01:08:56,649
what, where--
- And now they're flashing.
1654
01:08:56,649 --> 01:08:57,701
- There's that jumping, yeah.
1655
01:08:57,701 --> 01:09:00,701
So why, what, I, can't release that.
1656
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:04,171
There's 20,000 lines
of code at this point.
1657
01:09:04,171 --> 01:09:05,270
I don't even know where to look.
1658
01:09:05,270 --> 01:09:06,171
Where do you start looking?
1659
01:09:06,171 --> 01:09:08,110
- Can you go back to the forums,
1660
01:09:08,110 --> 01:09:10,527
talk to Temples and Mumblers?
1661
01:09:14,447 --> 01:09:16,778
- Memblers and Tepples, uh,
1662
01:09:16,778 --> 01:09:18,567
well, no, it's not like that anymore.
1663
01:09:18,567 --> 01:09:21,586
I mean, they showed me the
foundational information
1664
01:09:21,586 --> 01:09:23,337
of how to get this thing set up,
1665
01:09:23,337 --> 01:09:27,766
but I've been off the script
for a really long time.
1666
01:09:27,766 --> 01:09:28,897
The only person at this point
1667
01:09:28,897 --> 01:09:32,206
who understands the complexities
1668
01:09:32,206 --> 01:09:33,956
of this engine is me.
1669
01:09:35,817 --> 01:09:37,475
- You find a bug.
1670
01:09:37,475 --> 01:09:39,987
And how long does it take to find that bug
1671
01:09:39,987 --> 01:09:41,876
and to fix that bug?
1672
01:09:41,876 --> 01:09:43,787
It's the same problems
1673
01:09:43,787 --> 01:09:46,897
that the developers were
having 25, 30 years ago,
1674
01:09:46,897 --> 01:09:48,878
but we don't have millions
of dollars backing us up
1675
01:09:48,878 --> 01:09:52,587
in the development studio to
figure out that problem, right.
1676
01:09:52,587 --> 01:09:55,649
- You get stuck on, and in my own journey,
1677
01:09:55,649 --> 01:09:58,638
I got stuck on one little problem
1678
01:09:58,638 --> 01:10:00,577
for like a month or two.
1679
01:10:00,577 --> 01:10:02,198
You get bogged down at a certain point,
1680
01:10:02,198 --> 01:10:03,889
even after you know what you're doing.
1681
01:10:03,889 --> 01:10:06,110
- As you're making the game,
1682
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:07,578
the code just turns into spaghetti.
1683
01:10:07,578 --> 01:10:10,818
I mean, you have a subroutine
jumping to this bank.
1684
01:10:10,818 --> 01:10:13,069
And when it's pulling music,
it's going to this bank.
1685
01:10:13,069 --> 01:10:15,454
And it just turns into a huge mess.
1686
01:10:15,454 --> 01:10:18,855
And you start changing one value,
1687
01:10:18,855 --> 01:10:19,921
and the whole thing blows up,
1688
01:10:19,921 --> 01:10:23,483
and you're like, "What did I just do?"
1689
01:10:23,483 --> 01:10:24,704
- How did you, back in the day,
1690
01:10:24,704 --> 01:10:28,484
before there were these
lofty debugging tools built
1691
01:10:28,484 --> 01:10:32,232
into these engines, how
did you debug the code?
1692
01:10:32,232 --> 01:10:33,504
- You would do what's typically
1693
01:10:33,504 --> 01:10:36,297
called rubber duck debugging.
1694
01:10:36,297 --> 01:10:39,328
- Dare I even ask what
rubber duck debugging
1695
01:10:39,328 --> 01:10:40,692
could possible mean?
1696
01:10:40,692 --> 01:10:41,908
- Look at your code.
1697
01:10:41,908 --> 01:10:43,496
You think about what it's going to do,
1698
01:10:43,496 --> 01:10:46,600
and you explain what
your code should be doing
1699
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,256
and why you've written it that way.
1700
01:10:49,256 --> 01:10:53,440
What's key is being able
to explain your code,
1701
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:55,523
whether it's someone else
1702
01:10:56,588 --> 01:10:58,833
or even an inanimate object such as--
1703
01:10:58,833 --> 01:11:01,158
- A rubber duck, right, okay,
1704
01:11:01,158 --> 01:11:04,407
so you take a little, yellow,
rubber, squeaky ducky,
1705
01:11:04,407 --> 01:11:05,983
and you put it next to
your computer station,
1706
01:11:05,983 --> 01:11:08,165
and when you have trouble, you start
1707
01:11:08,165 --> 01:11:09,351
explaining your code.
- You explain it.
1708
01:11:09,351 --> 01:11:10,703
- You'll be explaining,
explaining, explaining,
1709
01:11:10,703 --> 01:11:13,677
and then oh, oh, there
it is, 'cause I didn't.
1710
01:11:13,677 --> 01:11:14,675
No, no, I get it, I get it.
1711
01:11:14,675 --> 01:11:16,643
- So it's essentially the act of teaching,
1712
01:11:16,643 --> 01:11:18,807
the act of explaining what's going on,
1713
01:11:18,807 --> 01:11:22,553
that helps organize the
code in your own mind.
1714
01:11:22,553 --> 01:11:23,386
You tell the duck.
- I have people
1715
01:11:23,386 --> 01:11:25,412
that think I'm crazy already.
1716
01:11:25,412 --> 01:11:27,755
If I'm sitting there talking
to a little, yellow duck--
1717
01:11:27,755 --> 01:11:29,435
- Now it doesn't have to be a yellow duck.
1718
01:11:29,435 --> 01:11:30,268
- And that's good,
1719
01:11:30,268 --> 01:11:32,697
because I couldn't really
see myself explaining my code
1720
01:11:32,697 --> 01:11:35,595
to a yellow duck, but I did
have someone who was constantly
1721
01:11:35,595 --> 01:11:37,847
in the studio that always
seemed eager to help.
1722
01:11:37,847 --> 01:11:39,915
We load x into object counter.
1723
01:11:39,915 --> 01:11:43,998
So when we call object
type x in building a y.
1724
01:11:45,849 --> 01:11:47,932
And so this kind of
became my weird routine
1725
01:11:47,932 --> 01:11:50,593
when I'd find myself stuck
in the corner with code.
1726
01:11:50,593 --> 01:11:52,393
I'd explain it to Georgia the dog
1727
01:11:52,393 --> 01:11:55,329
until a solution presented itself.
1728
01:11:55,329 --> 01:11:58,657
Not the most elegant solution,
but it got results way more
1729
01:11:58,657 --> 01:11:59,698
than I'm proud to admit.
1730
01:11:59,698 --> 01:12:02,313
That's supposed to be a y, isn't it?
1731
01:12:02,313 --> 01:12:03,885
That definitely says x.
1732
01:12:03,885 --> 01:12:07,303
And it's supposed to be a y .
1733
01:12:07,303 --> 01:12:10,141
Oh you're a good rubber ducky, booger.
1734
01:12:10,141 --> 01:12:11,717
Finding a solution to Elizabeth's issue
1735
01:12:11,717 --> 01:12:13,773
was maybe a little bit more complex.
1736
01:12:13,773 --> 01:12:14,742
Unlike Piers Anthony,
1737
01:12:14,742 --> 01:12:18,230
Elizabeth had a great creative
relationship with her editor
1738
01:12:18,230 --> 01:12:19,593
And while visiting her in Norway,
1739
01:12:19,593 --> 01:12:21,375
she decided to solicit her help
1740
01:12:21,375 --> 01:12:25,107
in what she considered an
impossible narrative puzzle.
1741
01:12:25,107 --> 01:12:26,491
- It's going all right.
1742
01:12:26,491 --> 01:12:27,992
It's interesting.
1743
01:12:27,992 --> 01:12:29,242
It's different.
1744
01:12:30,681 --> 01:12:32,745
In what way?
1745
01:12:32,745 --> 01:12:36,787
- I'm just, never, I'm not
used to being so restricted.
1746
01:12:36,787 --> 01:12:38,165
It's like working,
1747
01:12:38,165 --> 01:12:40,936
it's like working the
wrong way around, you know.
1748
01:12:40,936 --> 01:12:42,067
Right, let me formulate it.
1749
01:12:42,067 --> 01:12:44,605
Let me try and explain
1750
01:12:44,605 --> 01:12:45,904
where I'm at, right.
1751
01:12:45,904 --> 01:12:50,374
One of the challenges I face
is that I can create a world
1752
01:12:50,374 --> 01:12:52,893
of these mini-stories that
help to build the character
1753
01:12:52,893 --> 01:12:55,226
and help to build the world,
1754
01:12:56,232 --> 01:12:58,342
but every time I present them,
1755
01:12:58,342 --> 01:13:00,081
their response is "Oh that's great.
1756
01:13:00,081 --> 01:13:01,283
"That would be fantastic
1757
01:13:01,283 --> 01:13:03,440
"if this was a novel we were writing.
1758
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:05,829
"But it's an eight-bit game we're writing.
1759
01:13:05,829 --> 01:13:06,910
"It doesn't work.
1760
01:13:06,910 --> 01:13:09,680
"In game mechanics, none
of this shit works."
1761
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:11,661
Following our lead
in exploring nostalgia
1762
01:13:11,661 --> 01:13:14,288
and the folklore of our youths,
Elizabeth went on a mission
1763
01:13:14,288 --> 01:13:16,419
to reexamine the common folklore of Norway
1764
01:13:16,419 --> 01:13:18,565
that she remembered
from her own childhood,
1765
01:13:18,565 --> 01:13:19,446
hoping it would push her
1766
01:13:19,446 --> 01:13:21,529
in a narrative direction.
1767
01:13:34,635 --> 01:13:35,974
She was struck by how primitive
1768
01:13:35,974 --> 01:13:37,945
and simple the folklore was.
1769
01:13:37,945 --> 01:13:41,528
And there was an
interesting reason for it.
1770
01:13:54,904 --> 01:13:57,890
- It was kind of memory lane, you know.
1771
01:13:57,890 --> 01:13:59,901
It was nostalgic, to revisit some
1772
01:13:59,901 --> 01:14:01,475
of these stories I
haven't even thought about
1773
01:14:01,475 --> 01:14:02,892
for 20-odd years.
1774
01:14:04,882 --> 01:14:08,549
The simplicity of the
Norwegian folk stories
1775
01:14:09,770 --> 01:14:12,846
is a really nice parallel
with the simplicity
1776
01:14:12,846 --> 01:14:14,846
of this eight-bit world.
1777
01:14:17,059 --> 01:14:18,562
What we need to start doing now
1778
01:14:18,562 --> 01:14:21,091
is finding individual building blocks
1779
01:14:21,091 --> 01:14:22,979
and creating the mini-stories,
1780
01:14:22,979 --> 01:14:26,147
the individual lessons
that the hero goes through.
1781
01:14:26,147 --> 01:14:28,815
Yeah, so, you know, I went to Norway,
1782
01:14:28,815 --> 01:14:30,784
spent a week there, did
quite a lot of research,
1783
01:14:30,784 --> 01:14:34,988
and I was lucky enough
to get a really cool tour
1784
01:14:34,988 --> 01:14:39,340
of Hunderfossen, which is
this fairly ancient place
1785
01:14:39,340 --> 01:14:43,089
in the depth, the
darkest depths of Norway.
1786
01:14:43,089 --> 01:14:46,210
But they study old folklore.
1787
01:14:46,210 --> 01:14:47,722
They've collected the old folklore.
1788
01:14:47,722 --> 01:14:50,241
And the really crazy thing
about the Norwegian stories is
1789
01:14:50,241 --> 01:14:53,241
that unlike the mythology of Europe,
1790
01:14:54,169 --> 01:14:56,749
where there's a lot of
spirituality infused,
1791
01:14:56,749 --> 01:15:00,109
there's a lot of creation
myth infused into that lot,
1792
01:15:00,109 --> 01:15:01,665
it's not so in Norway.
1793
01:15:01,665 --> 01:15:04,289
It's really quite, it's quite
superficial in many levels.
1794
01:15:04,289 --> 01:15:06,797
It's much more to bring warning.
1795
01:15:06,797 --> 01:15:08,717
Don't go walking in the swamp,
1796
01:15:08,717 --> 01:15:10,965
because the Huldra might come.
1797
01:15:10,965 --> 01:15:13,001
And she's this lady, and she's all sexy--
1798
01:15:13,001 --> 01:15:14,981
- So it's really like to warn
children against bad behavior
1799
01:15:14,981 --> 01:15:16,683
and not necessarily--
- Exactly, exactly.
1800
01:15:16,683 --> 01:15:18,086
- This is connected to some supernatural--
1801
01:15:18,086 --> 01:15:19,661
- That's interesting.
- Precisely.
1802
01:15:19,661 --> 01:15:20,770
Yeah, precisely.
- More, sort of,
1803
01:15:20,770 --> 01:15:23,621
the first order of
mythology is instruction.
1804
01:15:23,621 --> 01:15:24,948
- Exactly, yeah.
1805
01:15:24,948 --> 01:15:26,760
Austin also reached
out externally for help
1806
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:28,216
with his part of the project.
1807
01:15:28,216 --> 01:15:29,792
Now Jherin Miller was just a kid.
1808
01:15:29,792 --> 01:15:31,860
He wasn't even alive when
the NES was relevant.
1809
01:15:31,860 --> 01:15:33,312
But his proposed sprite art
1810
01:15:33,312 --> 01:15:35,709
for our game characters was amazing.
1811
01:15:35,709 --> 01:15:39,084
- So obviously you're a good illustrator.
1812
01:15:39,084 --> 01:15:41,224
But you understand pixel art in a way that
1813
01:15:41,224 --> 01:15:43,408
when I first started looking at it,
1814
01:15:43,408 --> 01:15:45,279
it's harder than it seems
like it would be, you know.
1815
01:15:45,279 --> 01:15:46,746
- Yeah.
1816
01:15:46,746 --> 01:15:49,023
- Can you tell me, like,
what do you think about
1817
01:15:49,023 --> 01:15:51,227
when you start working on a sprite?
1818
01:15:51,227 --> 01:15:52,221
What's your process like?
1819
01:15:52,221 --> 01:15:55,373
- Yeah, usually, if I have
an idea for a character
1820
01:15:55,373 --> 01:15:57,997
or something, I just stick with one color
1821
01:15:57,997 --> 01:16:00,230
and just, like, blob things in
1822
01:16:00,230 --> 01:16:03,817
until it kind of looks like
something recognizable.
1823
01:16:03,817 --> 01:16:07,329
And then I'll go back
over that and refine it
1824
01:16:07,329 --> 01:16:10,161
into a shape that makes more sense.
1825
01:16:10,161 --> 01:16:11,347
So you build
the silhouette first?
1826
01:16:11,347 --> 01:16:12,885
- Yeah, yeah.
- Okay.
1827
01:16:12,885 --> 01:16:13,882
That's interesting.
1828
01:16:13,882 --> 01:16:15,170
I should've thought of that.
1829
01:16:15,170 --> 01:16:16,562
Matt Groening always
says that a character has
1830
01:16:16,562 --> 01:16:19,022
to have a recognizable silhouette first.
1831
01:16:19,022 --> 01:16:20,958
One of the things that I
noticed about your work,
1832
01:16:20,958 --> 01:16:24,290
and that really impresses
me, is your ability
1833
01:16:24,290 --> 01:16:26,958
to suggest detail with just a few pixels.
1834
01:16:26,958 --> 01:16:30,046
For instance, some of the test sprites
1835
01:16:30,046 --> 01:16:32,786
that you did for Amriya,
1836
01:16:32,786 --> 01:16:36,014
you know, she's got two
pixels that suggests
1837
01:16:36,014 --> 01:16:39,567
that she has feminine,
angry, magical eyes.
1838
01:16:42,428 --> 01:16:47,011
How do you go about creating
a gestalt impression
1839
01:16:47,011 --> 01:16:48,886
with such limited tools?
1840
01:16:48,886 --> 01:16:51,977
- Yeah, actually that's
a trick I learned is
1841
01:16:51,977 --> 01:16:53,858
to step back a few
feet, or even look at it
1842
01:16:53,858 --> 01:16:56,149
from across the room.
1843
01:16:56,149 --> 01:16:58,685
Or I try to blur my eyes and
just see it as like a bunch
1844
01:16:58,685 --> 01:17:00,960
of blobs instead of crisp pixels.
1845
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:01,918
- That's hilarious.
1846
01:17:01,918 --> 01:17:03,909
I mean, I know the same trick obviously,
1847
01:17:03,909 --> 01:17:06,265
but I think about it in terms
of composition, you know,
1848
01:17:06,265 --> 01:17:09,189
and like, is it jumping off
the shelf from across the room.
1849
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:11,757
Once I saw what he was doing,
1850
01:17:11,757 --> 01:17:14,305
it seemed so obvious.
1851
01:17:14,305 --> 01:17:18,655
I mean, these are core
principles of character design.
1852
01:17:18,655 --> 01:17:20,877
I'm not sure why I felt like I needed
1853
01:17:20,877 --> 01:17:24,094
to deconstruct that for this project.
1854
01:17:24,094 --> 01:17:25,089
- So this is a style
1855
01:17:25,089 --> 01:17:27,901
that you feel more
comfortable working in now?
1856
01:17:27,901 --> 01:17:30,889
- Yeah, no, I mean, this is
something that we can produce.
1857
01:17:30,889 --> 01:17:33,297
I can work within this.
1858
01:17:33,297 --> 01:17:35,431
We were really excited
about this new visual style
1859
01:17:35,431 --> 01:17:36,289
that we were working with,
1860
01:17:36,289 --> 01:17:37,561
but we were a little too close to it.
1861
01:17:37,561 --> 01:17:38,969
We already knew what these graphics
1862
01:17:38,969 --> 01:17:40,739
were supposed to represent.
1863
01:17:40,739 --> 01:17:42,269
In order to find out what other saw
1864
01:17:42,269 --> 01:17:43,785
when they looked at the
art, we got together
1865
01:17:43,785 --> 01:17:46,198
with the Ringling College
of Art and Design Game Club,
1866
01:17:46,198 --> 01:17:48,538
and giving them only the
low-resolution pixel art,
1867
01:17:48,538 --> 01:17:51,089
we asked them to reverse engineer concept
1868
01:17:51,089 --> 01:17:55,461
to determine what our
sprites were suggesting.
1869
01:17:55,461 --> 01:17:56,754
- And it was really interesting,
1870
01:17:56,754 --> 01:18:00,834
going through the pixel art,
to see how reading the forms
1871
01:18:00,834 --> 01:18:03,610
of the pixels help to inform the way
1872
01:18:03,610 --> 01:18:06,714
that we illustrate that from there.
1873
01:18:06,714 --> 01:18:07,547
- It was really fun.
1874
01:18:07,547 --> 01:18:10,354
It's a really interesting process that we
1875
01:18:10,354 --> 01:18:12,590
as a group of like 10 or 15, plus more,
1876
01:18:12,590 --> 01:18:15,095
would have maybe five to
10 different variations
1877
01:18:15,095 --> 01:18:16,865
of the same character.
1878
01:18:16,865 --> 01:18:17,830
- And I think it was really interesting
1879
01:18:17,830 --> 01:18:18,838
how many people were like,
1880
01:18:18,838 --> 01:18:20,014
"Okay, so they're androgynous.
1881
01:18:20,014 --> 01:18:22,054
"I'm not gonna give them
any defining features
1882
01:18:22,054 --> 01:18:23,838
"as to whether or not
they're a boy or a girl."
1883
01:18:23,838 --> 01:18:26,958
- We ran into many differences
with the hero character
1884
01:18:26,958 --> 01:18:28,906
and his choice of weapon.
1885
01:18:28,906 --> 01:18:30,994
- Having the eyes being the main part
1886
01:18:30,994 --> 01:18:32,041
of the face, it was interesting
1887
01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:35,680
to see how many people gave
the character those big,
1888
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,222
appealing, sort of anime-ish eyes.
1889
01:18:39,222 --> 01:18:43,540
- I mean, the pixel art gives
you like an iconic silhouette.
1890
01:18:43,540 --> 01:18:45,718
But I think that it's
really cool finding all
1891
01:18:45,718 --> 01:18:47,885
that a single dot can say.
1892
01:19:00,373 --> 01:19:01,794
- I think any kind of music that you make
1893
01:19:01,794 --> 01:19:03,486
that makes a statement and is special
1894
01:19:03,486 --> 01:19:05,602
and is memorable has
to come from the heart.
1895
01:19:05,602 --> 01:19:06,818
And that sounds super pretentious,
1896
01:19:06,818 --> 01:19:08,466
but it's harder than you think to make
1897
01:19:08,466 --> 01:19:11,031
that actually happen
when there's deadlines,
1898
01:19:11,031 --> 01:19:13,747
and there's technology
you don't understand.
1899
01:19:13,747 --> 01:19:17,914
It's not easy to be genuine
with limitations like that.
1900
01:19:42,246 --> 01:19:45,494
- Being able to get something
that brings an emotion
1901
01:19:45,494 --> 01:19:48,958
to the surface for someone
looking at your artwork
1902
01:19:48,958 --> 01:19:51,838
or listening to your music or
whatever, it's very important.
1903
01:19:51,838 --> 01:19:55,994
Simple artwork can still,
you know, can still evoke.
1904
01:19:55,994 --> 01:19:59,578
Simple tones can still cause emotion.
1905
01:20:27,045 --> 01:20:28,254
- We definitely turned a corner.
1906
01:20:28,254 --> 01:20:29,890
We were able to create compelling assets
1907
01:20:29,890 --> 01:20:31,662
for our NES experience.
1908
01:20:31,662 --> 01:20:33,954
We just weren't able to
create 'em fast enough.
1909
01:20:33,954 --> 01:20:37,312
This is an example of what
the main table looks like,
1910
01:20:37,312 --> 01:20:40,356
all the data that tells what tiles to draw
1911
01:20:40,356 --> 01:20:42,933
for the screen, and then
this is the collision data
1912
01:20:42,933 --> 01:20:45,312
that we've come up with that
sort of correlates, right.
1913
01:20:45,312 --> 01:20:48,336
And it's not like it's hard
to type all this data in,
1914
01:20:48,336 --> 01:20:51,844
but it takes forever, and it's
a lot of cutting and pasting.
1915
01:20:51,844 --> 01:20:53,207
And here's the bigger problem.
1916
01:20:53,207 --> 01:20:54,843
We test the game, right,
1917
01:20:54,843 --> 01:20:56,944
and then oh yeah, it's in the wrong spot.
1918
01:20:56,944 --> 01:20:58,664
Then I've got to open this file.
1919
01:20:58,664 --> 01:21:00,179
And I've got to find,
I've got to remember oh,
1920
01:21:00,179 --> 01:21:02,024
it was one, two, three, four, five over.
1921
01:21:02,024 --> 01:21:03,173
Then I got to open this file.
1922
01:21:03,173 --> 01:21:04,074
And I've got to change some of it.
1923
01:21:04,074 --> 01:21:08,441
Ah, what was the hex
value for water again?
1924
01:21:08,441 --> 01:21:09,531
Was it two or three?
1925
01:21:09,531 --> 01:21:10,364
Ah, I can't remember.
1926
01:21:10,364 --> 01:21:12,433
Then I got to look at my lookup chart.
1927
01:21:12,433 --> 01:21:14,064
And then I got oh yeah,
it was three, okay.
1928
01:21:14,064 --> 01:21:17,918
And then I got, what was the
tile number for tile three?
1929
01:21:17,918 --> 01:21:19,565
If we're gonna finish
this game this decade,
1930
01:21:19,565 --> 01:21:21,771
we need a more efficient way
1931
01:21:21,771 --> 01:21:25,267
of getting the data for these screens.
1932
01:21:25,267 --> 01:21:27,967
Is it possible to create a
tool, like in a modern language,
1933
01:21:27,967 --> 01:21:29,582
I know you're really good
at this kind of stuff,
1934
01:21:29,582 --> 01:21:32,802
that can sort of give me
the values that I need?
1935
01:21:32,802 --> 01:21:34,441
- Yeah, easy.
1936
01:21:34,441 --> 01:21:36,810
Really the next step for us is to find out
1937
01:21:36,810 --> 01:21:38,340
what your requirements are.
1938
01:21:38,340 --> 01:21:39,377
I'll set up the tools.
1939
01:21:39,377 --> 01:21:40,561
That way, you can focus more
1940
01:21:40,561 --> 01:21:42,285
on the actual world and the story.
1941
01:21:43,401 --> 01:21:44,437
We devoted a good bit of time
1942
01:21:44,437 --> 01:21:46,354
to creating a design
document that would explain
1943
01:21:46,354 --> 01:21:49,101
to Josh exactly the kind
of tool that we needed.
1944
01:21:49,101 --> 01:21:50,990
Working remotely, it
took a little extra time.
1945
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:53,001
He would program, and
then we'd test things out.
1946
01:21:53,001 --> 01:21:55,418
And we'd see what worked,
and we'd see what didn't.
1947
01:21:55,418 --> 01:21:56,757
Eventually, the tool had more lines
1948
01:21:56,757 --> 01:21:59,674
of code in it than the game itself.
1949
01:22:02,199 --> 01:22:03,032
But it worked.
1950
01:22:03,032 --> 01:22:04,337
We were able to quickly prototype things
1951
01:22:04,337 --> 01:22:05,869
and change things on the fly.
1952
01:22:05,869 --> 01:22:08,253
Our pace increased exponentially.
1953
01:22:08,253 --> 01:22:09,838
We finally had a version of the game
1954
01:22:09,838 --> 01:22:13,697
that we could start showing to people.
1955
01:22:13,697 --> 01:22:15,661
The reception was generally very positive,
1956
01:22:15,661 --> 01:22:18,437
and eventually word of the
project got to Adam Goldberg,
1957
01:22:18,437 --> 01:22:20,733
creator of The Goldbergs on ABC.
1958
01:22:20,733 --> 01:22:22,113
Apparently, Adam had also dabbled
1959
01:22:22,113 --> 01:22:23,617
in creating games when he was a kid,
1960
01:22:23,617 --> 01:22:25,909
and so he felt a certain
kinship to the project.
1961
01:22:25,909 --> 01:22:27,545
Now if you haven't seen
the show, it features a lot
1962
01:22:27,545 --> 01:22:30,646
of icons from the '80s,
including very prominently
1963
01:22:30,646 --> 01:22:32,945
the Nintendo Entertainment System.
1964
01:22:32,945 --> 01:22:35,613
To our amazement, he
invited us out to Hollywood
1965
01:22:35,613 --> 01:22:37,085
so that he could feature the prototype
1966
01:22:37,085 --> 01:22:39,305
of our game on the show.
1967
01:22:49,664 --> 01:22:51,449
- The first time I discovered,
1968
01:22:51,449 --> 01:22:54,241
I think I read in Nintendo
Power magazine or something,
1969
01:22:54,241 --> 01:22:57,045
that there was a cheat you
could do in Mario Brothers
1970
01:22:57,045 --> 01:22:58,709
to get unlimited lives.
1971
01:22:58,709 --> 01:23:02,565
And you basically, a turtle
is walking down the stairs,
1972
01:23:02,565 --> 01:23:03,992
and you would jump on it,
1973
01:23:03,992 --> 01:23:05,219
and it would--
- Right, right right.
1974
01:23:05,219 --> 01:23:06,392
- It would reflect back,
1975
01:23:06,392 --> 01:23:08,203
and you would get unlimited points
1976
01:23:08,203 --> 01:23:10,912
and start getting free guys.
1977
01:23:10,912 --> 01:23:15,547
And the first time I did
that was as a defining moment
1978
01:23:15,547 --> 01:23:17,723
for me as anything growing up.
1979
01:23:17,723 --> 01:23:20,526
I had never been so
excited in my entire life.
1980
01:23:20,526 --> 01:23:21,982
I didn't excel in sports.
1981
01:23:21,982 --> 01:23:24,055
I struggled in school.
1982
01:23:24,055 --> 01:23:25,959
You know, writing was
something that I always loved,
1983
01:23:25,959 --> 01:23:27,607
but I didn't know where
that would lead me.
1984
01:23:27,607 --> 01:23:30,099
And this moment, this was a
crowning achievement for me,
1985
01:23:30,099 --> 01:23:31,735
getting those unlimited lives.
1986
01:23:31,735 --> 01:23:36,371
It was like this is better than
scoring any touchdown ever.
1987
01:23:36,371 --> 01:23:38,077
Speaking of crowning achievements,
1988
01:23:38,077 --> 01:23:39,746
this felt surreal.
1989
01:23:39,746 --> 01:23:42,551
I mean, those silly, little
illustrations I'd done
1990
01:23:42,551 --> 01:23:44,823
as an eight-year-old kid
had yielded something
1991
01:23:44,823 --> 01:23:45,919
that was going to be broadcast
1992
01:23:45,919 --> 01:23:48,619
on national television during prime time.
1993
01:23:48,619 --> 01:23:52,319
I felt like I was on top of the world.
1994
01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:54,603
And as if to punctuate the
validity of this project,
1995
01:23:54,603 --> 01:23:56,391
across town, at that very moment,
1996
01:23:56,391 --> 01:23:58,011
the Nintendo World
Championships was happening
1997
01:23:58,011 --> 01:24:00,783
for the first time in 25 years.
1998
01:24:00,783 --> 01:24:01,911
There was actually more excitement
1999
01:24:01,911 --> 01:24:04,175
for the contest involving the retro games
2000
01:24:04,175 --> 01:24:07,251
than there were for the modern games.
2001
01:24:07,251 --> 01:24:09,723
But the biggest surprise came at the end.
2002
01:24:09,723 --> 01:24:11,434
Turns out that ambition
2003
01:24:11,434 --> 01:24:14,091
to create a new eight-bit
experience was something
2004
01:24:14,091 --> 01:24:16,859
that an awful lot of people shared.
2005
01:24:16,859 --> 01:24:18,657
I'm sorry,
are there, are there,
2006
01:24:18,657 --> 01:24:20,742
is there Hammer Brothers
on top of a Bob-omb
2007
01:24:20,742 --> 01:24:22,467
and with a Blooper?
2008
01:24:22,467 --> 01:24:24,422
What did I just see?
2009
01:24:26,691 --> 01:24:27,919
Troll box, the troll box.
2010
01:24:27,919 --> 01:24:30,415
Oh, oh he's
got dodging those hammers!
2011
01:24:37,126 --> 01:24:38,558
- Hi.
2012
01:24:38,558 --> 01:24:41,030
So that means
I've been creating video games
2013
01:24:41,030 --> 01:24:43,589
for 30-plus years.
- This might be as close
2014
01:24:43,589 --> 01:24:46,687
as this game gets, but Mystic
Searches was officially
2015
01:24:46,687 --> 01:24:48,950
in the same room with Miyamoto.
2016
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:51,089
- And I think making
games is the funnest thing
2017
01:24:51,089 --> 01:24:52,238
in the world.
2018
01:24:56,834 --> 01:24:59,837
Please keep enjoying Nintendo
games, thanks so much.
2019
01:24:59,837 --> 01:25:01,861
- A couple of weeks before The
Goldbergs episode was slated
2020
01:25:01,861 --> 01:25:04,473
to air, I got a fun email
from my friend Mark Neil.
2021
01:25:04,473 --> 01:25:05,701
Mark was one of the first people I met
2022
01:25:05,701 --> 01:25:07,021
after moving to Sarasota.
2023
01:25:07,021 --> 01:25:09,633
And after finding a mutual
love for The Legend of Zelda,
2024
01:25:09,633 --> 01:25:11,248
we always talked about
how we'd loved to work
2025
01:25:11,248 --> 01:25:12,973
on something together.
2026
01:25:12,973 --> 01:25:15,911
He was a really talented
animator, so talented, in fact,
2027
01:25:15,911 --> 01:25:18,194
that he'd moved out west to
accept a job at Telltale,
2028
01:25:18,194 --> 01:25:20,581
working on games like
Minecraft and Walking Dead
2029
01:25:20,581 --> 01:25:22,543
and Game of Thrones.
2030
01:25:22,543 --> 01:25:25,321
I hadn't heard much from
him since, but in his email,
2031
01:25:25,321 --> 01:25:27,569
he was proposing putting together a team
2032
01:25:27,569 --> 01:25:30,102
to make a modern version
of Mystic Searches.
2033
01:25:30,102 --> 01:25:32,595
My mind was blown at the
prospect, working with artists
2034
01:25:32,595 --> 01:25:35,957
of his caliber to bring
this to a modern console.
2035
01:25:35,957 --> 01:25:39,885
I mean, talk about validating the project.
2036
01:25:39,885 --> 01:25:40,817
You know, with all the support
2037
01:25:40,817 --> 01:25:42,325
and attention the project started to get,
2038
01:25:42,325 --> 01:25:45,433
we developed a newfound confidence,
and we really needed it.
2039
01:25:45,433 --> 01:25:47,681
Confidence is super
important when you're working
2040
01:25:47,681 --> 01:25:49,309
on a long-form project like this
2041
01:25:49,309 --> 01:25:51,197
that's gonna take a year
or two to complete it.
2042
01:25:51,197 --> 01:25:53,096
It keeps you going.
2043
01:25:53,096 --> 01:25:57,252
But there's a line when
confidence becomes hubris.
2044
01:25:57,252 --> 01:26:00,335
And in retrospect, maybe this was it.
2045
01:26:03,460 --> 01:26:08,129
- So you want to go back out
for a second Kickstarter,
2046
01:26:08,129 --> 01:26:09,717
knocking on the doors of all those people
2047
01:26:09,717 --> 01:26:11,006
who supported you the first time around?
2048
01:26:11,006 --> 01:26:13,902
- Well, I'm hoping it's
not the same people.
2049
01:26:13,902 --> 01:26:16,042
The scope is changing.
2050
01:26:16,042 --> 01:26:17,542
If I had known that this
was gonna be the scope
2051
01:26:17,542 --> 01:26:19,010
of the thing from the very beginning,
2052
01:26:19,010 --> 01:26:22,250
well, then I would've
shot for a higher budget
2053
01:26:22,250 --> 01:26:24,518
so that we could've done these things.
2054
01:26:24,518 --> 01:26:25,547
As it is, there's no way
we could do these things
2055
01:26:25,547 --> 01:26:27,202
on the budget that we have.
2056
01:26:27,202 --> 01:26:28,710
- I don't know.
2057
01:26:28,710 --> 01:26:29,902
It's definitely cool.
2058
01:26:29,902 --> 01:26:33,442
But part of the charm
of this is the conceived
2059
01:26:33,442 --> 01:26:36,530
in your backyard, coded up
in your garage, sort of,
2060
01:26:36,530 --> 01:26:39,395
kind of appeal to it, that nostalgia.
2061
01:26:39,395 --> 01:26:41,852
If you're gonna try to
bust into that world
2062
01:26:41,852 --> 01:26:43,317
and get on the shelf in competition
2063
01:26:43,317 --> 01:26:45,404
with these other big market games, I mean,
2064
01:26:45,404 --> 01:26:46,800
they sort of wipe out
your own imagination,
2065
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:48,621
because it's telling
you what this world is
2066
01:26:48,621 --> 01:26:51,024
rather than sort of suggesting it,
2067
01:26:51,024 --> 01:26:53,604
which is more in line
with a kid's imagination.
2068
01:26:53,604 --> 01:26:56,455
- That's adding a whole
lot of developmental work
2069
01:26:56,455 --> 01:26:59,122
at a late stage in this project.
2070
01:27:00,060 --> 01:27:02,087
I'd hate to see us take on too much
2071
01:27:02,087 --> 01:27:05,384
and have the project collapse
under its own weight.
2072
01:27:05,384 --> 01:27:06,830
- I couldn't believe their objection.
2073
01:27:06,830 --> 01:27:08,105
This was an amazing opportunity
2074
01:27:08,105 --> 01:27:09,830
that I did not want to squander.
2075
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:11,437
So I went ahead anyway.
2076
01:27:11,437 --> 01:27:13,326
I temporarily put progress
in the NES version
2077
01:27:13,326 --> 01:27:15,318
to the side, because I knew this new arm
2078
01:27:15,318 --> 01:27:17,622
of the project was gonna
elevate Mystic Searches
2079
01:27:17,622 --> 01:27:20,832
to a whole different league,
especially when our friends
2080
01:27:20,832 --> 01:27:23,158
from IGN agreed to run the trailer.
2081
01:27:23,158 --> 01:27:26,991
Yeah, so this is what's
gonna launch tomorrow.
2082
01:27:30,247 --> 01:27:32,744
To save a dying world,
2083
01:27:32,744 --> 01:27:36,911
a reluctant, young hero
must study an ancient relic
2084
01:27:37,904 --> 01:27:41,654
to explore forgotten
magic from another time.
2085
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,660
Prepare for a cross-platform adventure
2086
01:27:51,660 --> 01:27:54,344
that will bridge the generations.
2087
01:27:54,344 --> 01:27:56,340
A new game experience
2088
01:27:56,340 --> 01:27:59,776
for the original Nintendo
Entertainment System
2089
01:27:59,776 --> 01:28:02,859
and modern consoles, Mystic Searches.
2090
01:28:07,622 --> 01:28:10,651
- I mean, that's just, you know, I mean,
2091
01:28:10,651 --> 01:28:12,631
come on, man, that's cool.
2092
01:28:12,631 --> 01:28:14,463
I was in this sort of frenzy.
2093
01:28:14,463 --> 01:28:17,744
I needed the whole world to
know that this project existed.
2094
01:28:17,744 --> 01:28:19,935
And through the IGN trailer
and this modern game
2095
01:28:19,935 --> 01:28:23,759
and through The Goldbergs
episode, and there it was,
2096
01:28:23,759 --> 01:28:28,499
all 1.4 seconds of national
primetime exposure.
2097
01:28:28,499 --> 01:28:29,758
So victory, right?
2098
01:28:29,758 --> 01:28:33,239
I mean, six million people
tuned in to that episode.
2099
01:28:33,239 --> 01:28:34,663
There were six million pairs of eyes
2100
01:28:34,663 --> 01:28:39,263
that just witnessed a
brand-new, post-market NES game.
2101
01:28:39,263 --> 01:28:40,107
That's validation.
2102
01:28:40,107 --> 01:28:41,526
That's validation for me.
2103
01:28:41,526 --> 01:28:42,907
That's validation for my
team that worked so hard.
2104
01:28:42,907 --> 01:28:44,674
That's validation for
the entire community.
2105
01:28:44,674 --> 01:28:47,119
That's validation for this as an art form.
2106
01:28:47,119 --> 01:28:49,911
So use that as the impetus to
launch our second Kickstarter.
2107
01:28:49,911 --> 01:28:52,475
It's gonna be great, right?
2108
01:28:52,475 --> 01:28:53,707
- We've reached a point right now
2109
01:28:53,707 --> 01:28:55,548
where video gaming is huge.
2110
01:28:55,548 --> 01:28:58,427
But we have too many critics
2111
01:28:58,427 --> 01:28:59,827
and not enough advocates.
2112
01:28:59,827 --> 01:29:03,381
A critic tends to focus
on what is negative.
2113
01:29:03,381 --> 01:29:05,404
They try to look for what is wrong,
2114
01:29:05,404 --> 01:29:06,575
what they don't like.
2115
01:29:06,575 --> 01:29:08,195
And they like to talk
about what they don't like.
2116
01:29:08,195 --> 01:29:09,711
Lots of people in video gaming like
2117
01:29:09,711 --> 01:29:11,463
to talk about what they don't like.
2118
01:29:11,463 --> 01:29:14,523
Not enough people are talking
about what they do like,
2119
01:29:14,523 --> 01:29:17,011
what the positives are, what they enjoy,
2120
01:29:17,011 --> 01:29:21,178
what brought them to the
dance in the first place.
2121
01:29:22,023 --> 01:29:24,602
- So I don't know who
does this, but here I am
2122
01:29:24,602 --> 01:29:27,151
at the doctor's office
2123
01:29:27,151 --> 01:29:29,901
with a mallet fracture, it seems,
2124
01:29:31,228 --> 01:29:33,587
from reaching down and
scratching my ankle.
2125
01:29:33,587 --> 01:29:37,170
So this'll have to be
splinted for a while.
2126
01:29:39,070 --> 01:29:42,320
That'll make coding very fun, exciting.
2127
01:29:43,217 --> 01:29:45,440
It's fucking ridiculous.
2128
01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:46,639
You know,
I'm under a fair amount
2129
01:29:46,639 --> 01:29:48,828
of pressure with other
deadlines and so on.
2130
01:29:48,828 --> 01:29:52,710
With the baby coming, I really
have to scale back my level
2131
01:29:52,710 --> 01:29:54,860
of involvement in the
project, and of course,
2132
01:29:54,860 --> 01:29:57,554
I won't be involved with
the project, moving forward,
2133
01:29:57,554 --> 01:30:00,310
but for right now, dude,
I just can't give you
2134
01:30:00,310 --> 01:30:02,143
what you need from me.
2135
01:30:05,202 --> 01:30:07,962
- The ground started to
crumble beneath our feet.
2136
01:30:07,962 --> 01:30:09,746
Even the project's greatest victories,
2137
01:30:09,746 --> 01:30:12,265
like the success with
the initial Kickstarter,
2138
01:30:12,265 --> 01:30:15,958
came back to haunt us
as all-new obstacles.
2139
01:30:15,958 --> 01:30:17,458
They're billing me
2140
01:30:18,658 --> 01:30:20,825
for $16,205 in back taxes.
2141
01:30:33,470 --> 01:30:36,350
Okay, we, well, we ride
the second Kickstarter,
2142
01:30:36,350 --> 01:30:39,906
and then the first bit
of funds go directly
2143
01:30:39,906 --> 01:30:41,918
towards paying this.
2144
01:30:41,918 --> 01:30:46,438
This is all business
expense, I mean, you know.
2145
01:30:49,078 --> 01:30:50,171
- Okay.
2146
01:30:57,652 --> 01:31:00,684
- I think doing this kind of stuff is more
2147
01:31:00,684 --> 01:31:03,171
like a gambling addiction
than anything else, you know.
2148
01:31:03,171 --> 01:31:06,400
You just , every
success comes from hanging
2149
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:09,650
in longer than makes any kind of sense.
2150
01:31:13,644 --> 01:31:15,394
- Oh we're so fucked.
2151
01:31:21,972 --> 01:31:23,904
- There's a bond that you form
2152
01:31:23,904 --> 01:31:26,092
with this creation that you make.
2153
01:31:26,092 --> 01:31:28,176
And you want nothing more than
2154
01:31:28,176 --> 01:31:29,533
to share that with other people.
2155
01:31:29,533 --> 01:31:31,886
You want other people
to feel what you feel.
2156
01:31:31,886 --> 01:31:34,390
I mean, the best-case scenario
is someone's gonna sit
2157
01:31:34,390 --> 01:31:37,466
and play it, and they're
like, "Oh, that's cool."
2158
01:31:37,466 --> 01:31:42,430
And they're gonna move on to
something else, and it's like,
2159
01:31:42,430 --> 01:31:47,167
I took a year out of my life
to make this game, you know.
2160
01:31:47,167 --> 01:31:48,276
That's a harsh reality.
2161
01:31:48,276 --> 01:31:52,478
I mean, you want someone
to stop and think of yours
2162
01:31:52,478 --> 01:31:54,818
as special, but in the
grand scheme of things,
2163
01:31:54,818 --> 01:31:56,014
I mean, someone's gonna stop.
2164
01:31:56,014 --> 01:31:57,186
They're gonna play it
for a couple of minutes,
2165
01:31:57,186 --> 01:31:58,410
and they're gonna move on.
2166
01:31:58,410 --> 01:31:59,855
- Five years now, no
one's gonna care about
2167
01:31:59,855 --> 01:32:01,088
that homebrew anymore.
2168
01:32:01,088 --> 01:32:03,321
There's very few of these
homebrews that are talked
2169
01:32:03,321 --> 01:32:05,451
about after they come
out, a year or two later.
2170
01:32:05,451 --> 01:32:07,034
It's like, "Oh, that's a
great game, let's pop it in."
2171
01:32:07,034 --> 01:32:08,919
That's nothing against these homebrewers.
2172
01:32:08,919 --> 01:32:10,958
It's hard to create a game with 100 people
2173
01:32:10,958 --> 01:32:12,926
that's as good as something
like The Legend of Zelda.
2174
01:32:12,926 --> 01:32:14,950
The Legend of Zelda is a
game that was worked on
2175
01:32:14,950 --> 01:32:18,050
by, you know, one of the most
legendary game designers ever.
2176
01:32:18,050 --> 01:32:19,705
He wasn't just a guy
just getting in for fun
2177
01:32:19,705 --> 01:32:21,142
and learning after a
few years how to do it.
2178
01:32:21,142 --> 01:32:23,655
He's a guy that worked at this forever.
2179
01:32:23,655 --> 01:32:25,698
- Back to chasing down
bugs for the NES game,
2180
01:32:25,698 --> 01:32:28,865
it was really hard to find motivation.
2181
01:32:30,827 --> 01:32:34,190
It's almost like it
would take me less time
2182
01:32:34,190 --> 01:32:38,630
to rewrite the entire engine
from scratch than it would
2183
01:32:38,630 --> 01:32:42,047
for me to find the bugs in this rat nest.
2184
01:32:44,382 --> 01:32:48,550
I can't justify spending
any more time on a thing
2185
01:32:48,550 --> 01:32:52,050
that was supposed to be a novelty project.
2186
01:32:55,002 --> 01:32:59,006
- This was never a
novelty project for you.
2187
01:32:59,006 --> 01:33:03,178
It's more like a vendetta .
2188
01:33:03,178 --> 01:33:05,350
- I thought it couldn't get worse.
2189
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:06,350
I was wrong.
2190
01:33:19,946 --> 01:33:20,779
- It was pretty crazy.
2191
01:33:20,779 --> 01:33:22,193
I guess we were in the middle
2192
01:33:22,193 --> 01:33:24,526
of working on Minecraft 101.
2193
01:33:27,456 --> 01:33:29,253
He said he was going to
go to get some lunch,
2194
01:33:29,253 --> 01:33:31,741
and he was gonna maybe go out for a ride.
2195
01:33:31,741 --> 01:33:35,180
Later that night, I get a Facebook message
2196
01:33:35,180 --> 01:33:38,405
from my friend who, uh, she was like,
2197
01:33:38,405 --> 01:33:41,433
"Well, he just passed away.
2198
01:33:41,433 --> 01:33:42,665
"I just, like, spoke to his wife,
2199
01:33:42,665 --> 01:33:46,247
"and he took a turn bad, and you know,
2200
01:33:46,247 --> 01:33:49,580
"got into a bad accident, and, you know,
2201
01:33:50,689 --> 01:33:52,106
"he passed away."
2202
01:33:57,761 --> 01:34:01,428
- It changes the, uh,
the entire perspective
2203
01:34:02,953 --> 01:34:05,370
of what am I doing right now.
2204
01:34:06,277 --> 01:34:09,944
Is this really worth
my time to be doing it?
2205
01:34:11,059 --> 01:34:13,329
- Oh every creative
project takes its toll.
2206
01:34:13,329 --> 01:34:15,996
It's always a, it's a trade-off.
2207
01:34:18,741 --> 01:34:20,074
You're trading the days of your life
2208
01:34:20,074 --> 01:34:23,721
for something you hope is worth it.
2209
01:34:23,721 --> 01:34:25,425
- Remember when the
project was doing well?
2210
01:34:26,469 --> 01:34:27,886
That was awesome.
2211
01:34:29,708 --> 01:34:33,093
- Well, I guess that's the question,
2212
01:34:33,093 --> 01:34:35,701
is, you know, does it
have to be doing well
2213
01:34:35,701 --> 01:34:37,201
to be worth doing?
2214
01:35:02,083 --> 01:35:04,750
I was beyond frustrated.
2215
01:35:06,220 --> 01:35:09,036
This was a juvenile project
about essentially creating
2216
01:35:09,036 --> 01:35:11,505
what amounted to a children's toy.
2217
01:35:11,505 --> 01:35:12,708
It wasn't supposed to get mixed up
2218
01:35:12,708 --> 01:35:15,936
with the complexities of adult life.
2219
01:35:15,936 --> 01:35:19,853
It was supposed to be
the escape from all that.
2220
01:35:21,620 --> 01:35:24,410
To try and get past
the existential crisis,
2221
01:35:24,410 --> 01:35:28,577
I returned home, visited a
place of childhood merriment,
2222
01:35:30,454 --> 01:35:34,621
anything to stave off the
growing sense of apathy.
2223
01:35:35,992 --> 01:35:39,695
Through older eyes and out
of season, it was haunting.
2224
01:35:44,976 --> 01:35:46,942
I was standing in the company
2225
01:35:46,942 --> 01:35:49,273
of the skeletons of once
great thrill machines
2226
01:35:49,273 --> 01:35:52,145
whose time of relevance had expired,
2227
01:35:52,145 --> 01:35:53,478
and I missed it.
2228
01:35:57,665 --> 01:36:01,582
I realized there was
nothing left there for me.
2229
01:36:03,349 --> 01:36:06,432
It was time to step away for a while.
2230
01:36:12,493 --> 01:36:14,045
- If you only knew how
many times I've been
2231
01:36:14,045 --> 01:36:16,378
in this exact same position.
2232
01:36:20,328 --> 01:36:23,208
You may be okay having
this be another artifact
2233
01:36:23,208 --> 01:36:26,345
that you find in a closet
somewhere in another 30 years
2234
01:36:26,345 --> 01:36:28,953
and take back out and mess around with.
2235
01:36:28,953 --> 01:36:30,269
I'm not.
2236
01:36:30,269 --> 01:36:32,269
Other people are invested now.
2237
01:36:32,269 --> 01:36:33,166
I'm invested.
2238
01:36:33,166 --> 01:36:35,387
I've spent a year crating
art assets for this game,
2239
01:36:35,387 --> 01:36:38,220
and I need the emotional catharsis
2240
01:36:39,153 --> 01:36:41,027
of having this come to completion.
2241
01:36:41,027 --> 01:36:42,857
I told you that when we started.
2242
01:36:42,857 --> 01:36:45,440
So take whatever time you need.
2243
01:36:47,045 --> 01:36:49,681
Do what you need to do
to get your head right.
2244
01:36:49,681 --> 01:36:51,630
We got to figure out what it takes
2245
01:36:51,630 --> 01:36:54,733
to get this across the finish line.
2246
01:36:54,733 --> 01:36:55,697
- I could finish this.
2247
01:36:55,697 --> 01:36:58,439
I could see this through.
2248
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:00,763
But there was something I
was gonna have to give up,
2249
01:37:02,112 --> 01:37:04,208
the fantasy, the
romanticism of it, you know.
2250
01:37:04,208 --> 01:37:06,791
As long as this game was
just an idea in my head,
2251
01:37:06,791 --> 01:37:08,332
it was just perfect.
2252
01:37:08,332 --> 01:37:09,971
But to actually see it
realized, that was to bash it
2253
01:37:09,971 --> 01:37:12,427
into form within the
constraints of reality.
2254
01:37:14,559 --> 01:37:16,883
That's exactly why we discard
these ambitions as kids.
2255
01:37:16,883 --> 01:37:19,703
I mean, it's our rite of passage,
2256
01:37:19,703 --> 01:37:21,830
getting rid of those silly, little ideas,
2257
01:37:21,830 --> 01:37:23,276
all in the name of growing up.
2258
01:37:23,276 --> 01:37:25,609
I'd left my trail behind me.
2259
01:37:28,037 --> 01:37:31,203
The only way that I was gonna
restore my conviction was
2260
01:37:31,203 --> 01:37:35,387
to trace back through 30 years
of abandoned aspirations,
2261
01:37:35,387 --> 01:37:40,159
to find out how this first
childhood ambition fit
2262
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:42,592
within the constraints of my adult life.
2263
01:37:42,592 --> 01:37:45,235
♪ Hey, angel ♪
2264
01:37:45,235 --> 01:37:48,652
♪ Consider your position ♪
2265
01:37:49,615 --> 01:37:53,782
♪ Afraid to be consumed, savor it ♪
2266
01:37:56,584 --> 01:37:57,611
Your first take was pretty good.
2267
01:37:57,611 --> 01:37:58,444
First take was pretty good?
2268
01:37:59,371 --> 01:38:00,479
Don't be afraid.
- Yeah, let's--
2269
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:03,007
- Don't be afraid of winning.
2270
01:38:03,007 --> 01:38:04,807
If you have every choice in the world,
2271
01:38:04,807 --> 01:38:07,207
you never really have
to, you're not confronted
2272
01:38:07,207 --> 01:38:09,819
with what do I have to
do and what do I have
2273
01:38:09,819 --> 01:38:11,987
to give up to do that.
2274
01:38:11,987 --> 01:38:13,975
Everything came
to a strange nexus point
2275
01:38:13,975 --> 01:38:16,663
when I sat down with
filmmaker David Markey,
2276
01:38:16,663 --> 01:38:20,323
and he began to lament about
his childhood pursuits.
2277
01:38:20,323 --> 01:38:23,967
- I started making films
when I was a little kid.
2278
01:38:23,967 --> 01:38:25,751
I was about 11 or 12.
2279
01:38:25,751 --> 01:38:29,497
And I just shot stuff in my neighborhood.
2280
01:38:29,497 --> 01:38:31,164
I made a horror film
2281
01:38:32,555 --> 01:38:35,287
in 1974, that I called
The Devil's Exorcist,
2282
01:38:35,287 --> 01:38:37,687
because at the time, The
Exorcist was the big movie.
2283
01:38:37,687 --> 01:38:39,799
I remember I charged admission
2284
01:38:39,799 --> 01:38:41,871
to all the kids that were in the movie,
2285
01:38:41,871 --> 01:38:45,067
like a quarter apiece, to
come see the movie projected
2286
01:38:45,067 --> 01:38:47,719
in my garage, which I had
turned into a movie theater.
2287
01:38:47,719 --> 01:38:50,691
My film's just kept
getting longer and longer
2288
01:38:50,691 --> 01:38:54,695
until eventually, around
the time when I was 16, 17,
2289
01:38:54,695 --> 01:38:57,411
I got involved in the music scene
2290
01:38:57,411 --> 01:38:59,331
in Los Angeles at the time.
2291
01:39:00,164 --> 01:39:01,056
♪ Just like that ♪
2292
01:39:01,056 --> 01:39:03,733
♪ Dances with our sin ♪
2293
01:39:03,733 --> 01:39:05,157
♪ Just be there ♪
2294
01:39:05,157 --> 01:39:06,274
♪ Just be good ♪
2295
01:39:06,274 --> 01:39:08,094
♪ Just did as they were told ♪
2296
01:39:12,540 --> 01:39:13,373
- That's the thing.
2297
01:39:13,373 --> 01:39:16,302
I mean, when I was shooting
Year Punk Broke, for example,
2298
01:39:16,302 --> 01:39:18,490
I had a finite amount of film with me.
2299
01:39:18,490 --> 01:39:20,797
And I'm dealing with
these 50-foot cartridges
2300
01:39:20,797 --> 01:39:23,842
of Super 8 film that I have in a suitcase
2301
01:39:23,842 --> 01:39:27,744
that I was just sort of lugging
with me all over Europe.
2302
01:39:27,744 --> 01:39:29,546
And I was at these music festivals,
2303
01:39:29,546 --> 01:39:31,818
and there's so much stuff going on.
2304
01:39:31,818 --> 01:39:34,398
And I was having to
make a lot of decisions
2305
01:39:34,398 --> 01:39:37,485
on the spot of what I was going to shoot.
2306
01:39:37,485 --> 01:39:40,186
There was something about the necessity
2307
01:39:40,186 --> 01:39:43,980
that molded the shape of these films,
2308
01:39:43,980 --> 01:39:46,966
the content of these films.
2309
01:39:46,966 --> 01:39:50,278
There was just a certain
finality about the process
2310
01:39:50,278 --> 01:39:53,206
of doing that, that was really cool.
2311
01:39:53,206 --> 01:39:56,984
It's not, this isn't a print,
2312
01:39:56,984 --> 01:40:01,348
or you know, some surrogate
to experience delight
2313
01:40:01,348 --> 01:40:02,998
from that event.
2314
01:40:02,998 --> 01:40:05,831
And 1991 hit this exact film stock
2315
01:40:07,018 --> 01:40:08,426
that we're holding right now.
2316
01:40:08,426 --> 01:40:11,110
So having the tactile
experience of touching it
2317
01:40:11,110 --> 01:40:12,686
and seeing it through the projector,
2318
01:40:12,686 --> 01:40:15,370
seeing light being pushed
back through it, you know,
2319
01:40:15,370 --> 01:40:16,901
that's powerful.
2320
01:40:16,901 --> 01:40:18,396
That's interesting.
2321
01:40:18,396 --> 01:40:20,646
As we sat and talked about
the creative benefits
2322
01:40:20,646 --> 01:40:23,989
of limitations juxtaposed
against watching his film
2323
01:40:23,989 --> 01:40:27,502
of a young Nirvana, just
prior to the grunge explosion,
2324
01:40:27,502 --> 01:40:29,782
I found a moment of clarity.
2325
01:40:29,782 --> 01:40:32,226
When you have no audience,
when you have no budget,
2326
01:40:32,226 --> 01:40:34,190
when you have no technical proficiency,
2327
01:40:34,190 --> 01:40:36,426
when your endurance is faded
and all of the supports
2328
01:40:36,426 --> 01:40:38,722
for your art have been
kicked out from under you,
2329
01:40:38,722 --> 01:40:40,881
what reason is there to create?
2330
01:40:40,881 --> 01:40:41,902
It's not about money.
2331
01:40:41,902 --> 01:40:43,714
It's not about notoriety.
2332
01:40:43,714 --> 01:40:46,790
All that's left is the
inexplicable compulsion
2333
01:40:46,790 --> 01:40:49,222
to do this thing, and
once you know the reason
2334
01:40:49,222 --> 01:40:50,526
why you have the compulsion,
2335
01:40:50,526 --> 01:40:52,802
you've got to let that be enough.
2336
01:40:52,802 --> 01:40:55,506
- This is gonna be around
a lot longer than I am.
2337
01:40:55,506 --> 01:40:58,589
And this will be looked at, you know,
2338
01:40:59,750 --> 01:41:01,750
as a piece of that time.
2339
01:41:06,722 --> 01:41:09,286
I mean, that says a lot more about it
2340
01:41:09,286 --> 01:41:10,754
than anything I can say.
2341
01:41:10,754 --> 01:41:13,111
- Yeah.
2342
01:42:36,339 --> 01:42:37,898
After almost two years
2343
01:42:37,898 --> 01:42:39,231
of this emotional roller coaster,
2344
01:42:39,231 --> 01:42:42,708
30 years of anticipation, Mystic Searches,
2345
01:42:42,708 --> 01:42:45,155
a brand-new, hardware-playable,
cartridge-based game
2346
01:42:45,155 --> 01:42:48,771
for the Nintendo Entertainment
System was almost finished.
2347
01:42:48,771 --> 01:42:51,176
But I had one more demon to face
2348
01:42:51,176 --> 01:42:53,724
before I could put this to bed.
2349
01:42:53,724 --> 01:42:57,040
Now most people were in Park
City for the film festival.
2350
01:42:57,040 --> 01:42:59,359
I had a different engagement.
2351
01:43:01,184 --> 01:43:04,168
I'm amazed that I was
able to track you down
2352
01:43:04,168 --> 01:43:06,148
and find you, here in Salt Lake City.
2353
01:43:06,148 --> 01:43:07,476
- Well, I'm glad we could get together.
2354
01:43:07,476 --> 01:43:08,796
- You were one of the
first people employed by--
2355
01:43:08,796 --> 01:43:10,442
- Yes, I was the fifth person.
2356
01:43:10,442 --> 01:43:12,564
- Fifth person, you were
employee number five.
2357
01:43:12,564 --> 01:43:14,021
How integral were you in the process
2358
01:43:14,021 --> 01:43:18,628
of approving official US
releases and things like that?
2359
01:43:18,628 --> 01:43:20,230
Were you quality control?
2360
01:43:20,230 --> 01:43:22,852
Was that your job, to play these games?
2361
01:43:22,852 --> 01:43:26,200
- One of my titles while there
was product analysis manager.
2362
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:30,040
And as such, I would have to
evaluate every single game
2363
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:32,197
that was being potentially released
2364
01:43:32,197 --> 01:43:35,617
on the North American Nintendo System.
2365
01:43:38,588 --> 01:43:40,804
How many games, percentage
2366
01:43:40,804 --> 01:43:44,016
- I would say it was maybe 10%
2367
01:43:44,016 --> 01:43:45,936
that actually got to that point.
2368
01:43:45,936 --> 01:43:46,769
- Wow.
- Before then,
2369
01:43:46,769 --> 01:43:50,924
probably about 20%, we're
just like no, don't even try.
2370
01:43:50,924 --> 01:43:53,501
- You started Nintendo Power.
2371
01:43:53,501 --> 01:43:54,569
I mean, it was brilliant,
2372
01:43:54,569 --> 01:43:57,901
because it was a two-way conversation now.
2373
01:43:57,901 --> 01:43:59,734
And I find that fascinating.
2374
01:43:59,734 --> 01:44:01,671
There's always, especially
in the early days,
2375
01:44:01,671 --> 01:44:03,619
there was all these "Write us a letter.
2376
01:44:03,619 --> 01:44:05,280
"Send us your game scores," whatever.
2377
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:07,559
How much of that did you interact with?
2378
01:44:07,559 --> 01:44:08,735
- Oh, all of it.
2379
01:44:08,735 --> 01:44:11,795
- All of it, yeah, I constantly
read all the letters.
2380
01:44:11,795 --> 01:44:13,011
I constantly talked about
2381
01:44:13,011 --> 01:44:15,499
how we're gonna give responses to them.
2382
01:44:16,653 --> 01:44:17,510
- Yeah.
2383
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:18,427
- In 1988--
2384
01:44:20,153 --> 01:44:23,472
- Me and a friend got together,
and we created a game.
2385
01:44:23,472 --> 01:44:25,115
- Mm-hmm.
- And we sent a letter.
2386
01:44:25,115 --> 01:44:25,953
And I'm pretty sure we sent it
2387
01:44:25,953 --> 01:44:27,803
to whatever address we saw in here.
2388
01:44:27,803 --> 01:44:28,783
- Mm-hmm.
2389
01:44:28,783 --> 01:44:32,866
- You know, these were
sent to Nintendo one time.
2390
01:44:34,451 --> 01:44:38,563
I told him the whole
story, start to finish.
2391
01:44:38,563 --> 01:44:42,027
I traveled a very long way
and waited a very long time
2392
01:44:42,027 --> 01:44:45,694
to ask this man in
particular for one favor.
2393
01:44:46,827 --> 01:44:50,994
What I would love is for you
to test a new NES prototype.
2394
01:44:52,257 --> 01:44:53,361
- It's been a couple of years
2395
01:44:53,361 --> 01:44:56,478
since I've seen an NES prototype,
but I would love to, yeah.
2396
01:44:56,478 --> 01:44:58,128
- And I want to know, from the person
2397
01:44:58,128 --> 01:45:00,761
who made these decisions,
2398
01:45:00,761 --> 01:45:04,011
in 1988, would this have made that cut?
2399
01:45:05,896 --> 01:45:08,313
A 30-year journey ended here.
2400
01:45:09,547 --> 01:45:11,854
30 years ago, this same man probably saw
2401
01:45:11,854 --> 01:45:13,906
the abstract illustrations
of a couple of kids
2402
01:45:13,906 --> 01:45:15,694
from Central New York.
2403
01:45:15,694 --> 01:45:19,130
And he probably found their
passion cute and endearing.
2404
01:45:19,130 --> 01:45:21,466
For better or for worse, I
had to know if he still worked
2405
01:45:21,466 --> 01:45:25,846
for the company, what would
have been the verdict?
2406
01:45:25,846 --> 01:45:27,679
- With what I've seen,
2407
01:45:29,026 --> 01:45:31,631
you're definitely on the path
towards getting something
2408
01:45:31,631 --> 01:45:34,791
that could be certified
for play on the NES.
2409
01:45:35,966 --> 01:45:37,062
- Yeah, absolutely.
2410
01:45:37,062 --> 01:45:39,472
- These ideas dreamed up
by the eight
2411
01:45:39,472 --> 01:45:40,990
- Absolutely, absolutely.
2412
01:45:40,990 --> 01:45:42,937
No, totally cool stuff.
2413
01:45:42,937 --> 01:45:44,470
Totally cool, fun stuff.
2414
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:46,671
Like, who wouldn't want to
play a game like this, right?
2415
01:45:46,671 --> 01:45:48,862
- You just validated the
last 30 years of my life.
2416
01:45:48,862 --> 01:45:50,338
So thank you for that.
2417
01:45:52,318 --> 01:45:53,151
- Thank you.
2418
01:45:53,984 --> 01:45:55,570
That brings us
to the end of our story.
2419
01:45:55,570 --> 01:45:57,794
Matt bought an NES, as promised,
2420
01:45:57,794 --> 01:46:00,750
and he found out it was about
more than just nostalgia.
2421
01:46:00,750 --> 01:46:03,962
He began to enjoy new
experiences for the system.
2422
01:46:03,962 --> 01:46:06,074
Meanwhile, our vagabond coder, Josh,
2423
01:46:06,074 --> 01:46:07,486
continued to add new features
2424
01:46:07,486 --> 01:46:09,194
to our screen development tool.
2425
01:46:09,194 --> 01:46:10,263
That way, other people could use it
2426
01:46:10,263 --> 01:46:13,714
to see their visions come
to life on the NES, too.
2427
01:46:13,714 --> 01:46:16,054
Elizabeth decided to expand
the universe she'd created
2428
01:46:16,054 --> 01:46:18,695
for Mystic Searches in a
way that wasn't so limited.
2429
01:46:18,695 --> 01:46:20,627
She's currently creating a whole book
2430
01:46:20,627 --> 01:46:23,210
of lore based on that universe.
2431
01:46:24,151 --> 01:46:25,127
What about Austin?
2432
01:46:25,127 --> 01:46:28,307
His involvement and
encouragement was the catalyst
2433
01:46:28,307 --> 01:46:31,443
that made this project
possible in the first place.
2434
01:46:31,443 --> 01:46:33,783
I'd like to think that it was
working on Mystic Searches
2435
01:46:33,783 --> 01:46:35,823
that inspired him and
eventually compelled him
2436
01:46:35,823 --> 01:46:38,223
to start looking at
projects from his own youth
2437
01:46:38,223 --> 01:46:40,339
to breathe some new life into.
2438
01:46:42,887 --> 01:46:44,987
Me, I've been passing on what I've learned
2439
01:46:44,987 --> 01:46:46,683
to a new generation of creators.
2440
01:46:46,683 --> 01:46:48,601
And by that, I don't just mean how
2441
01:46:48,601 --> 01:46:50,687
to develop new NES games.
2442
01:46:50,687 --> 01:46:51,691
When faced with the fact
2443
01:46:51,691 --> 01:46:54,376
that they're impossible or
impractical or juvenile,
2444
01:46:54,376 --> 01:46:57,497
most of us let our greatest
ambitions just disintegrate,
2445
01:46:57,497 --> 01:47:00,479
which is a shame, because they define us
2446
01:47:00,479 --> 01:47:02,479
and our relationships
with the people around us
2447
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:04,231
and our perspective of the world in ways
2448
01:47:04,231 --> 01:47:06,150
that we could never fully appreciate.
2449
01:47:06,150 --> 01:47:09,727
The fruits of those ambitions
become our humble legacy.
2450
01:47:09,727 --> 01:47:12,009
And speaking of legacy,
many have asked what's next.
2451
01:47:12,009 --> 01:47:13,965
Make some music, go back to writing,
2452
01:47:13,965 --> 01:47:15,820
bring Mystic Searches
to the Super Nintendo?
2453
01:47:15,820 --> 01:47:17,378
Well, for starters, I'm gonna have
2454
01:47:17,378 --> 01:47:19,824
to slow down a little bit,
because I'm currently working
2455
01:47:19,824 --> 01:47:24,116
on a completely different
kind of pixelated adventure.
2456
01:47:24,116 --> 01:47:27,084
But I'll leave this story with
somewhat of an open ending.
2457
01:47:27,084 --> 01:47:31,251
How does the epic saga of
Mystic Searches conclude?
2458
01:47:32,604 --> 01:47:34,463
Hello, this
is Richard with Nintendo.
2459
01:47:34,463 --> 01:47:35,436
I'm calling for Joe to talk to you
2460
01:47:35,436 --> 01:47:37,203
about your interest in Developer Program.
2461
01:47:37,203 --> 01:47:38,496
If you can, just give us a call back
2462
01:47:38,496 --> 01:47:42,460
at 425 , 55, thanks.
184049
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