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1
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On a scale of one to ten, how much are you dreading this?
2
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-(laughs) I'm not dreading this at all. -(chuckles)
3
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So, a one then.
4
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You know, I, uh, I wouldn't blame you if you were.
5
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-Can I get you some water? -Uh, yeah.
6
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Yeah, sure, that'd be great.
7
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(opens fridge)
8
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(grabs bottle)
9
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(shuts fridge)
10
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(sighs)
11
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(sighs)
12
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Um, I-I'm good here,
13
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if your back is still bothering you.
14
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Oh, I'm feeling better. Thank you.
15
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'Cause I, um, I do like this chair,
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if it's all the same to you.
17
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It's not.
18
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(light piano music playing)
19
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♪
20
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You know, I-I like that plant.
21
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I keep seeing it everywhere.
22
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There was one in the coffee place I went to this morning.
23
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-It's a fiddle-leaf fig. -Hm.
24
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When I'm back on my feet,
25
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I'm gonna get more into plants.
26
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I love caring for plants.
27
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Slows you down.
28
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They're on a completely different clock.
29
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Yeah, they mock us with their longevity.
30
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When we're gone, they'll all have a good laugh.
31
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-What do you mean? -Oh, you know. We all tried so hard,
32
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worried about so much,
33
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made plans, got mad at each other, and for what?
34
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You know, I saw a fight this morning.
35
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Two guys got into it
36
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over a-a parking spot.
37
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And, uh, speaking of silly grievances,
38
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um (clears throat)...
39
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I wrote to that woman that I was telling you about.
40
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The, uh, tech writer?
41
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Yeah, I was thinking about her after our last session.
42
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-You're nervous, I can tell. -No. I...
43
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-What did you say to her? -Well, I-I went through a bunch of drafts,
44
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starting at the, you know, most juvenile,
45
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venomous, hate-filled version,
46
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and then, gradually, I got more and more conciliatory.
47
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-Where did you land? -I didn't send it.
48
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I just...
49
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I just...
50
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It was so unlikely to have any effect at all.
51
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You know, and ultimately, I realized I was trying
52
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to write something magnanimous that I didn't really believe.
53
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And the only reason I was trying to do that is 'cause I-I...
54
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I wanted to impress you.
55
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Me?
56
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Yes. I went through this whole exercise,
57
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so I'd be able to come in here and show you
58
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what a swell guy I really am.
59
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As it turns out, I am impressed.
60
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Hm.
61
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Sounds like you've taken an honest look
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at your motivations, and...
63
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I find that encouraging.
64
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And I'm glad that you didn't send it to her.
65
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Yeah, thanks. Me, too.
66
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Why do you think
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you were trying to impress me?
68
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Well, because the end of our last session,
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you said you didn't like me.
70
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I said it wasn't important for the work
71
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we do in here for me to like you.
72
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-You can hear how that sounds like you don't like me, right? -And you can understand
73
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how it's different from what it sounds like?
74
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Okay, so it doesn't matter that you like me for our work.
75
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But to me, it does!
76
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I don't know what that says about me.
77
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I look forward to you telling me at some point,
78
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but it is what it is, and...
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(sighs) I just...
80
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-I-I need you to like me. -Okay.
81
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I recognize that self-reflection, and I will
82
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-be open to it. To... -To what?
83
00:04:13,266 --> 00:04:14,766
To liking you.
84
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Such a dick.
85
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(laughs)
86
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-We both like plants. We're halfway there. -(both laugh)
87
00:04:24,533 --> 00:04:28,133
So, in writing the letter and deciding not to send it,
88
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do you think this is something
89
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-you've put to bed? -(sighs)
90
00:04:32,733 --> 00:04:35,033
Do you know what? I-I don't wanna think about her.
91
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Her time will come, she'll slip up,
92
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the world will turn on her.
93
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I'll sit quietly by, sipping a piping hot cup of
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go-fuck-yourself.
95
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,370
But until then, I just wanna put her out of my mind.
96
00:04:47,433 --> 00:04:50,103
Okay. Rooting for another person's public demise
97
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isn't great, but we only have so much time,
98
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so I'm happy to move on to another subject.
99
00:04:55,166 --> 00:04:57,066
Ah. Great. Like what?
100
00:04:57,133 --> 00:04:58,533
Like you.
101
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,600
Oh, right.
102
00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:04,230
(sighs) Well, let's see.
103
00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:07,570
Plants. I love 'em, but we covered that.
104
00:05:08,466 --> 00:05:10,696
Uh...
105
00:05:10,766 --> 00:05:13,166
-I love being outdoors. -Now we're getting somewhere.
106
00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:16,573
(laughs) Yeah, I grew up running around the woods,
107
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knee-deep in mud, bare-ass naked most of the time.
108
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,400
Our house was on Greenvale Road,
109
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right on the San Lorenzo River.
110
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That's where my parents got the name. And I-I just loved--
111
00:05:26,633 --> 00:05:28,473
Where-where your parents got the name?
112
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For their company?
113
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-Greenvale Foods. -Are they the ones
114
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who make the little cranberry crackers?
115
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-Among other things. -Oh, I love those!
116
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I think I have some of those in my pantry right now.
117
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-Yeah. We all do, Brooke. -(laughs)
118
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-And are they still doing that or-- -Oh no.
119
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No, they're super dead.
120
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But yeah, yeah. Started off making granola
121
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in that rambling little shack on the river,
122
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turned it into a giant thing.
123
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Every health food store in the country.
124
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-Were you close? -Mm, yeah.
125
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I mean,
126
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you know, "yeah."
127
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They were very busy people.
128
00:06:02,266 --> 00:06:04,466
Oh. Busy parents are a good thing
129
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from a therapist standpoint.
130
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Hm. Yeah?
131
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Much easier to untangle busy parents
132
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than overly attentive ones,
133
00:06:11,333 --> 00:06:15,033
depending on what they were doing. If they were busy...
134
00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:16,200
doing cocaine,
135
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-that's bad. -Mm.
136
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When did they pass?
137
00:06:21,466 --> 00:06:23,366
Um...
138
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It's 10 years ago, about.
139
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Wow.
140
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Yeah, it's coming up on 10 years.
141
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,030
Huh. They were going
142
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to a consortium way out in Alaska.
143
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Eco-conscious business leaders.
144
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You know,
145
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titans kayaking together,
146
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and they were-- they were on a seaplane that crashed.
147
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Oh. That's terrible.
148
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Yeah.
149
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-I am so sorry. -Thank you.
150
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Yeah, they were always going on exotic trips.
151
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,330
You know, but by the time I was 14 or 15,
152
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I didn't wanna go to Sri Lanka.
153
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I wanted to hang out with my friends.
154
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And so, they started traveling without me.
155
00:07:01,733 --> 00:07:05,373
Oh, that was great. They'd be gone two or three weeks.
156
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I'd be livin' large.
157
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You know, eating Stouffer's mac and cheese,
158
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and sneaking into rock clubs every night.
159
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-Every kid's dream. -It was just
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so goddamn fun!
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You name the band, I saw them
162
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in a tiny, fuckin' sweaty, nasty club.
163
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And I mean everybody,
164
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and all before they were anything.
165
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Still friendly with some of those guys.
166
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Or, I was before.
167
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So what, uh, what-what were you into?
168
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-Music-wise? -Mm-hmm.
169
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Whatever middle-of-the-road pop thing
170
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I could sneak past my father.
171
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My father was a jazz snob. (scoffs)
172
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He'd put on Thelonious Monk and be like,
173
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-"This is real music." -(laughs)
174
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(laughs)
175
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But I was in eighth grade
176
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-when the whole Dre and Snoop thing started. -Oh shit.
177
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Okay, now-now a picture's coming together.
178
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I don't even know if I liked it
179
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or if it was just what everyone was listening to--
180
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Oh, isn't that crazy? Things we'll try to like?
181
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You know, I did that with Monk actually. Oh God...
182
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I even bought a stupid little hat to try to look like him,
183
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and it didn't work.
184
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-You don't say? -(laughs)
185
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Oh God, when I think about that, it was like...
186
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a performance.
187
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I just wanted those musicians who were cool
188
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and sophisticated...
189
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I wanted to be indistinguishable from them.
190
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I wanted an outsider to look at me
191
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and see something that,
192
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in retrospect, I just wasn't.
193
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Do you still do that?
194
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Yes.
195
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Maybe. God, I don't know.
196
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I'd hate to think I haven't gotten any closer to an authentic self.
197
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I no longer listen to music that I hate,
198
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which is good.
199
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Don't you love that feeling when you
200
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admit to yourself that you just don't like something
201
00:09:00,766 --> 00:09:03,326
that you know you're supposed to like?
202
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,300
I think it's because, like...
203
00:09:05,366 --> 00:09:07,296
like you were saying,
204
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you can feel yourself taking a teeny, tiny step
205
00:09:09,766 --> 00:09:12,096
towards your authentic self.
206
00:09:12,166 --> 00:09:15,696
Yeah. I mean, look, do I-- do I really like plants?
207
00:09:15,766 --> 00:09:17,996
I mean, I like plants. Who doesn't like plants?
208
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But do I wanna learn about plants
209
00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:21,430
or care for plants or...
210
00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:24,300
do I just wanna be the kind of person who would...
211
00:09:24,366 --> 00:09:26,066
you know, like plants?
212
00:09:26,133 --> 00:09:28,533
That makes me think of the tech writer.
213
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,630
Wanting people to have a certain idea of you.
214
00:09:32,433 --> 00:09:33,673
Hm.
215
00:09:35,266 --> 00:09:38,196
Wait a minute. Are we... are we doing therapy again?
216
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We always were.
217
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(laughs)
218
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I think you spend
219
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too much time in other people's heads.
220
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I think you make up stories, which is natural, but...
221
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you don't really know what people are thinking.
222
00:09:57,333 --> 00:09:59,733
And you certainly can't control what they think about you,
223
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,070
or how they feel about you.
224
00:10:02,133 --> 00:10:05,133
I don't know about that. Sorta what I do.
225
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,070
I mean, I just turned you around in 10 minutes.
226
00:10:07,133 --> 00:10:08,373
You fuckin' love me now.
227
00:10:08,433 --> 00:10:09,773
My feelings notwithstanding.
228
00:10:10,033 --> 00:10:12,573
-I knew it! -(both laugh)
229
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No one is liked by everyone.
230
00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:18,030
There have to be many people
231
00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:20,230
you haven't been able to charm.
232
00:10:20,733 --> 00:10:22,373
Mm...
233
00:10:22,433 --> 00:10:25,033
Well, Mr. Pineapple Juice.
234
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,370
What about your ex-wife?
235
00:10:30,266 --> 00:10:31,696
Oh, you know, my ex-wife for one.
236
00:10:31,766 --> 00:10:35,526
-I was wondering when we'd get to her. -(laughs)
237
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(clears throat) Yeah, I charmed the fuck outta her,
238
00:10:37,566 --> 00:10:40,166
and then the charm faded. Hmm.
239
00:10:40,233 --> 00:10:41,703
Or, should I say, was extinguished
240
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by a swarm of FBI windbreakers
241
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storming our house and ruining our life.
242
00:10:47,466 --> 00:10:49,996
You mentioned her in passing last week.
243
00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:52,496
Seems like the bad blood is mutual?
244
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If that's how it sounded, that was a defense mechanism.
245
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It's just...
246
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it's too painful, I think.
247
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It's probably why I haven't brought it up.
248
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-What's her name? -Hannah.
249
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How'd you meet?
250
00:11:12,366 --> 00:11:15,166
This neighbor of mine was having a barbecue.
251
00:11:15,233 --> 00:11:17,203
Um, as I'm walking up to his place,
252
00:11:17,266 --> 00:11:20,626
this stunning woman was coming from the other direction.
253
00:11:21,333 --> 00:11:23,603
Just gorgeous.
254
00:11:23,666 --> 00:11:25,566
And we arrive at the gate at the same time
255
00:11:25,633 --> 00:11:27,133
and do that sort of stutter-step.
256
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,000
You know, "Excuse me, excuse me,"
257
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and it was like a current was running between us.
258
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It was like two...
259
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intricate, interlocking pieces
260
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:38,230
just found each other and went...
261
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-thwip. -Mm.
262
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And she moved in a week later.
263
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We were the...
264
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,700
the king and queen of Venice Beach.
265
00:11:48,766 --> 00:11:50,526
We got married the next year,
266
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,670
flew all of our friends down to a little hotel in Belize,
267
00:11:53,733 --> 00:11:55,673
took over the whole joint.
268
00:11:55,733 --> 00:11:59,103
We were having so much fun, we ended up staying two weeks.
269
00:11:59,566 --> 00:12:00,766
All of us.
270
00:12:01,033 --> 00:12:03,133
It was like we were the axis of a...
271
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,230
whole social ecosystem.
272
00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,130
You know, um, musicians and artists
273
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,500
and-and-and entrepreneurs.
274
00:12:10,566 --> 00:12:13,596
This big Venn diagram of amazing people,
275
00:12:13,666 --> 00:12:16,566
and we were right at the center.
276
00:12:16,633 --> 00:12:18,233
And it wasn't like we weren't tested.
277
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:19,730
You know, some couples, they...
278
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,570
First rainy day, they realize
279
00:12:21,633 --> 00:12:24,303
they can't fucking stand each other. Not us.
280
00:12:24,366 --> 00:12:26,196
And how did you respond to the rainy days?
281
00:12:26,266 --> 00:12:28,426
We rode it the fuck out.
282
00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:30,700
You know, I was, uh, 40 when we met.
283
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,000
I figured kids weren't in the cards,
284
00:12:33,066 --> 00:12:34,726
but she, that's what she wanted,
285
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,130
and I was on board, but...
286
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,600
Um, didn't work out for her.
287
00:12:41,666 --> 00:12:42,996
You know, she was...
288
00:12:45,566 --> 00:12:47,496
It just wasn't happening.
289
00:12:47,566 --> 00:12:50,266
I've seen a lot of couples go through that.
290
00:12:50,333 --> 00:12:53,203
-It can be brutal. -Yeah. And she was...
291
00:12:53,266 --> 00:12:55,026
You know, you took one look at this woman,
292
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,570
and you are like, wow, this is fertility personified.
293
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:01,770
I mean, she was 29 years old,
294
00:13:02,033 --> 00:13:05,233
life just pouring out of her.
295
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,570
-Like a ripe peach. -And how did you
296
00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:10,203
process the disappointment?
297
00:13:10,266 --> 00:13:11,426
We didn't at first.
298
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:14,270
-First, we tried everything. -IVF?
299
00:13:14,333 --> 00:13:16,203
Uh, everything short of that.
300
00:13:16,266 --> 00:13:18,296
Hannah didn't wanna do anything that was
301
00:13:18,366 --> 00:13:21,366
in conflict with "the natural world."
302
00:13:21,433 --> 00:13:23,273
And I certainly wasn't gonna fight her on it,
303
00:13:23,333 --> 00:13:27,003
but we did try various sound baths.
304
00:13:28,066 --> 00:13:29,566
Acupuncture.
305
00:13:29,633 --> 00:13:31,303
We visited energy vortexes,
306
00:13:31,366 --> 00:13:34,366
and if you've never fucked outdoors in Sedona
307
00:13:34,433 --> 00:13:37,103
under a full moon, it is a good time.
308
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,130
Though tragically ineffective.
309
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,670
Qigong, crystals, you name it.
310
00:13:43,733 --> 00:13:47,003
-I'm sorry. That must've been difficult. -Yeah.
311
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,370
Yeah, our plans changed, but... (sighs)
312
00:13:50,433 --> 00:13:53,373
You know, we were still happy, goddammit.
313
00:13:53,433 --> 00:13:55,133
Until...
314
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,100
-Your arrest. -Yeah.
315
00:14:02,066 --> 00:14:04,326
Whatever connection she felt to me,
316
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,670
it was cauterized in an instant.
317
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:13,200
It's been one of the toughest lessons of this whole thing.
318
00:14:13,266 --> 00:14:15,626
These moments reveal people and, you know...
319
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,500
who you can trust.
320
00:14:23,566 --> 00:14:25,226
Who cares about you.
321
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:27,770
Who cares about the status and the money
322
00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:30,103
and the fancy friends
323
00:14:30,166 --> 00:14:32,296
and the proximity to success.
324
00:14:32,366 --> 00:14:35,026
You know, who's drawn to the-the glow of achievement.
325
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:37,670
I never, ever thought that was her.
326
00:14:37,733 --> 00:14:39,173
Not in a million years,
327
00:14:39,233 --> 00:14:40,703
but, boy, when the shit hits the fan,
328
00:14:40,766 --> 00:14:43,326
-that's when you really meet people. -You felt betrayed?
329
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,500
Oh, fucking-A, right.
330
00:14:47,766 --> 00:14:50,066
(sighs) But,
331
00:14:51,133 --> 00:14:54,533
these things, they're co-created.
332
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,270
You know, she looked at me a certain way when we met,
333
00:14:57,333 --> 00:14:59,273
and I could see what she saw.
334
00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:01,433
She saw an impressive person.
335
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:03,570
And I never wanted her to stop looking at me that way.
336
00:15:03,633 --> 00:15:06,703
I would do anything. (laughs)
337
00:15:06,766 --> 00:15:09,166
I think that was maybe the first clue that,
338
00:15:09,233 --> 00:15:11,033
you know, to keep her looking at me that way,
339
00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:13,000
I had to keep growing, keep achieving,
340
00:15:13,066 --> 00:15:15,466
becoming a-a grander and grander success,
341
00:15:15,533 --> 00:15:18,233
so I just cut some corners.
342
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:19,600
I know that sounds dismissive.
343
00:15:19,666 --> 00:15:21,366
I did a lot more than cut corners.
344
00:15:21,433 --> 00:15:23,403
I-I lied. Even if I...
345
00:15:25,266 --> 00:15:27,066
We don't need to get into it.
346
00:15:28,233 --> 00:15:30,733
Do you know, when I think about it...
347
00:15:32,533 --> 00:15:34,633
it was always,
348
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:37,000
always about Hannah.
349
00:15:38,066 --> 00:15:40,366
And when I was arrested,
350
00:15:40,433 --> 00:15:43,233
I mean, the moment it happened,
351
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:45,430
I looked at her, and she was...
352
00:15:49,466 --> 00:15:51,726
gone.
353
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,500
(sighs) That look in her eyes, it...
354
00:15:54,566 --> 00:15:57,296
it vanished. And I knew...
355
00:15:58,366 --> 00:15:59,466
This sounds like
356
00:15:59,533 --> 00:16:01,503
more of being in someone else's head.
357
00:16:01,566 --> 00:16:03,426
Well, when you're as close as we were,
358
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,070
the line gets very blurry.
359
00:16:05,133 --> 00:16:06,773
Where one head ends, the other begins.
360
00:16:07,033 --> 00:16:10,033
I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just that it's a guess.
361
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:12,600
(sighs) Look, I'm wrong about a lot of shit.
362
00:16:13,633 --> 00:16:15,333
I'm right about this.
363
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,430
Sounds like, uh...
364
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,570
you had a lot of impressive friends.
365
00:16:23,333 --> 00:16:25,133
Yeah.
366
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,770
I could give you a list, but that would be tacky.
367
00:16:28,033 --> 00:16:30,373
Luminaries and household names.
368
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,600
In the handful of times I've been around someone like that,
369
00:16:35,666 --> 00:16:39,596
I've been shocked at how flustered I get.
370
00:16:39,666 --> 00:16:41,396
(chuckles) How excited.
371
00:16:41,466 --> 00:16:44,026
-Sure. Yeah. -Is that how Hannah was?
372
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:47,470
-Sort of starstruck? -Oh, no, no, no. She was so cool.
373
00:16:47,533 --> 00:16:50,503
Not that you're... there's anything uncool about--
374
00:16:50,566 --> 00:16:52,726
She just-- it-it didn't faze her.
375
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,400
Did she ever develop feelings
376
00:16:54,466 --> 00:16:56,326
for one of your impressive friends?
377
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,430
-What do you mean? -Well, did you get the sense that she was...
378
00:17:00,233 --> 00:17:02,033
-Cheating on me? -No.
379
00:17:02,766 --> 00:17:04,466
Just...
380
00:17:04,533 --> 00:17:08,333
-a crush? An infatuation? -No.
381
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,700
So even when the biggest,
382
00:17:10,766 --> 00:17:13,566
coolest name on your tacky list, even when they came in the room,
383
00:17:13,633 --> 00:17:17,173
-she always focused on you? -We were all about each other.
384
00:17:17,233 --> 00:17:20,033
Maybe she wasn't enamored by the status then.
385
00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:22,670
Maybe she fell in love with the person, with you.
386
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,670
Let's, just for a second, let's say
387
00:17:26,733 --> 00:17:28,503
that she did love you.
388
00:17:28,566 --> 00:17:30,166
Not the status,
389
00:17:30,233 --> 00:17:33,533
not the bells and whistles.
390
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,370
Well in that case, loss of status wouldn't be a reason to leave.
391
00:17:38,433 --> 00:17:42,233
-Right. -Well, what possible reason would she have then?
392
00:17:44,533 --> 00:17:46,473
Really rack your brain.
393
00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:49,733
You mean, like,
394
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,200
that I was lying
395
00:17:52,266 --> 00:17:54,766
to her for several years
396
00:17:55,033 --> 00:17:57,133
about many things.
397
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,170
Yeah, I suppose that could be it.
398
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,570
Yeah. (scoffs) That could be it.
399
00:18:32,766 --> 00:18:34,426
You okay?
400
00:18:37,166 --> 00:18:38,666
Just every now and then, it...
401
00:18:39,466 --> 00:18:41,166
it hits me...
402
00:18:42,533 --> 00:18:44,333
just how thoroughly I've...
403
00:18:47,066 --> 00:18:48,166
(sighs)
404
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,300
Do you see what we just did?
405
00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:56,173
We changed what was in her head,
406
00:18:56,233 --> 00:18:58,303
and the reason we were able to do that
407
00:18:58,366 --> 00:19:01,696
is because it wasn't in her head.
408
00:19:02,533 --> 00:19:05,173
It was in yours.
409
00:19:05,233 --> 00:19:08,003
If she leaves because of status, that protects you.
410
00:19:08,066 --> 00:19:10,526
If she leaves because of your behavior,
411
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,630
that exposes you, and one of those two things
412
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,670
is more comfortable to live with than the other.
413
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:22,200
See, the stories you create aren't truth.
414
00:19:22,266 --> 00:19:26,196
But they can help to understand things about yourself.
415
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,600
But how do you get to the truth?
416
00:19:31,666 --> 00:19:33,326
I mean, how do you...
417
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,630
know what's actually going on
418
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,730
-in another person's head? -You have to ask them.
419
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,470
And when they ask you, you have to answer honestly.
420
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,570
Wow, is it me,
421
00:19:54,633 --> 00:19:56,673
or are we getting somewhere?
422
00:19:56,733 --> 00:19:59,433
(laughs) Seriously,
423
00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:01,670
we-we-we got a groove going.
424
00:20:01,733 --> 00:20:04,033
(laughs) Therapy's popular for a reason.
425
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:06,700
You know what it's like?
426
00:20:06,766 --> 00:20:08,766
Like Monk and Coltrane trading fours.
427
00:20:09,033 --> 00:20:12,103
-Jazz is boring. This is way more fun. -(laughs)
428
00:20:12,166 --> 00:20:15,766
It is! Oh! It's exciting!
429
00:20:16,033 --> 00:20:17,503
It's-it's sad, also,
430
00:20:17,566 --> 00:20:20,496
because the big takeaway here is I am a piece of shit.
431
00:20:20,566 --> 00:20:24,166
That's not what we've arrived at.
432
00:20:24,233 --> 00:20:26,233
I-I'm kidding sort of, somewhat kidding,
433
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:28,100
-moderately serious. -(laughs)
434
00:20:28,166 --> 00:20:30,996
What's your communication been like with her?
435
00:20:31,066 --> 00:20:33,096
I tried at first,
436
00:20:33,166 --> 00:20:34,666
but she didn't wanna hear from me.
437
00:20:34,733 --> 00:20:36,073
And since you've been out?
438
00:20:36,133 --> 00:20:38,603
I don't even have a working number for her.
439
00:20:38,666 --> 00:20:40,396
I asked a mutual friend,
440
00:20:40,466 --> 00:20:43,996
but she, "didn't feel comfortable sharing it with me."
441
00:20:44,066 --> 00:20:45,596
Which is infuriating and insane,
442
00:20:45,666 --> 00:20:47,726
but fine. Whatever, whatever.
443
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,300
Were you hoping to reconcile?
444
00:20:51,266 --> 00:20:53,296
Uh, no.
445
00:20:53,366 --> 00:20:56,396
I mean, I don't see that as likely,
446
00:20:56,466 --> 00:20:59,666
but I would be lying if I said I didn't think about it.
447
00:20:59,733 --> 00:21:03,003
It's so frustrating because I think if she could just...
448
00:21:03,066 --> 00:21:06,126
see me. If she could see the work we were doing,
449
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,270
I think she might be proud of me.
450
00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:10,673
I don't know if it'd be enough,
451
00:21:10,733 --> 00:21:13,233
but I think she'd be happy that I'm, I'm...
452
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:15,230
slowly, and with a...
453
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:17,130
occasional emotional outburst,
454
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,300
figuring it out.
455
00:21:19,366 --> 00:21:21,126
Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't.
456
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,770
-But maybe she would. -The work we do in here isn't about another person.
457
00:21:25,033 --> 00:21:27,333
It's about you.
458
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,370
Well, I mean, come on, Doctor.
459
00:21:31,433 --> 00:21:33,503
It's kind of about you, too.
460
00:21:33,566 --> 00:21:35,696
(scoffs) What do you mean?
461
00:21:37,333 --> 00:21:40,033
It's about convincing you.
462
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:42,130
(clears throat) Or you being
463
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,430
sufficiently convinced that I'm not a danger
464
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:46,200
to myself. That I'm on...
465
00:21:46,266 --> 00:21:47,696
the journey to rehabilitation,
466
00:21:47,766 --> 00:21:51,226
and the journey will continue unimpeded, if I remain free.
467
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:53,100
-(laughs) -I mean,
468
00:21:53,166 --> 00:21:56,426
you-you're asking me not to live in other people's heads?
469
00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:59,000
When whatever's in your head decides whether or not
470
00:21:59,066 --> 00:22:01,126
I'm remanded to a federal penitentiary.
471
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,700
Well, I assure you
472
00:22:02,766 --> 00:22:06,266
the object of therapy isn't to win over the therapist.
473
00:22:06,333 --> 00:22:08,473
Except in this particular case.
474
00:22:11,333 --> 00:22:13,133
Come on, be honest.
475
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,200
It isn't.
476
00:22:15,266 --> 00:22:18,266
I'm only here to help you.
477
00:22:18,333 --> 00:22:22,103
So, if I told you I did write to that woman, that tech fuck,
478
00:22:22,766 --> 00:22:24,996
told her to rot in Hell,
479
00:22:25,066 --> 00:22:27,726
get fucked by a thousand fire-horned demons,
480
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,330
that wouldn't affect my standing?
481
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,230
Did you do that?
482
00:22:32,466 --> 00:22:34,296
It's just a hypothetical.
483
00:22:34,366 --> 00:22:36,226
I would find it disturbing,
484
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:38,330
but there's a lot of area between that extreme
485
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,030
and where you seem to be.
486
00:22:41,633 --> 00:22:43,573
But if I told you that,
487
00:22:43,633 --> 00:22:45,103
I would be going back to jail.
488
00:22:45,166 --> 00:22:48,366
I would have to dig into it and ask many,
489
00:22:48,433 --> 00:22:51,273
many follow-up questions.
490
00:22:56,566 --> 00:22:59,296
Well, I didn't. Write to her, I mean.
491
00:22:59,366 --> 00:23:00,566
I'm glad.
492
00:23:00,633 --> 00:23:02,433
A-- Why do you believe me?
493
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:05,470
I have to take what you say at face value.
494
00:23:05,533 --> 00:23:07,733
Honesty is all you can offer another person.
495
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,230
If you give them honesty, and they don't respond in kind,
496
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:13,570
that's on them.
497
00:23:19,666 --> 00:23:21,226
Okay.
498
00:23:26,066 --> 00:23:27,566
Colin, what was that?
499
00:23:29,666 --> 00:23:32,566
We were having what I thought was a lovely session.
500
00:23:32,633 --> 00:23:34,133
I don't know. Sometimes, I feel the need
501
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,070
to push back on some of what you're telling me.
502
00:23:36,133 --> 00:23:38,533
-You should resist that impulse. -What, you don't like being tested?
503
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,600
I don't like to punch down.
504
00:23:41,566 --> 00:23:44,366
Oh! (laughs) Holy shit!
505
00:23:44,433 --> 00:23:47,133
All right! Uncle!
506
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,630
(clears throat) I surrender!
507
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:51,200
That was fuckin' awesome!
508
00:23:51,266 --> 00:23:54,996
I-I just like to mix it up with you. I'm sorry.
509
00:23:55,066 --> 00:23:57,396
-Truce? Huh. -Sure.
510
00:23:57,466 --> 00:24:00,326
I did just pour my heart out.
511
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,000
Maybe I was feeling a little naked,
512
00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:03,766
-vulnerable. -You have to stop playing chess.
513
00:24:04,033 --> 00:24:07,633
You have to stop zooming out 30,000 feet.
514
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,400
Be in the room with me, up close.
515
00:24:13,033 --> 00:24:14,103
I...
516
00:24:16,166 --> 00:24:18,126
Colin, did you write to that woman?
517
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,330
-No! -(scoffs) Oh, geez!
518
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,430
I am telling you, bro, you... ah!
519
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:32,730
-You push me. -Ah, it's good to be pushed.
520
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,330
You push me, too. I'm better for it.
521
00:24:36,666 --> 00:24:40,066
The letter you wrote, your unsent vitriol.
522
00:24:40,133 --> 00:24:43,773
Is it possible those were things you wanted to say to Hannah?
523
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:49,630
I love Hannah.
524
00:24:57,033 --> 00:24:59,733
I'm really sorry that I got all...
525
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,730
I-I-I was an asshole for a second there.
526
00:25:02,033 --> 00:25:05,103
-I... Fish gotta swim, right? -I forgive you.
527
00:25:06,666 --> 00:25:08,726
(sighs)
528
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,670
Can't believe we only have one more session.
529
00:25:10,733 --> 00:25:13,033
That is-- that is if you sign off.
530
00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:15,630
(laughs) Let's see what happens next week.
531
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:17,000
(chuckling exhale)
532
00:25:20,533 --> 00:25:21,603
But...
533
00:25:23,133 --> 00:25:24,633
You-you do like me,
534
00:25:25,433 --> 00:25:27,033
right?
535
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:29,730
Pain in the ass stuff aside?
536
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,030
I like the therapeutic challenge you pose.
537
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:34,370
(quiet laugh)
538
00:25:37,566 --> 00:25:41,296
-That feels like a good place to leave it for today. -(clears throat)
539
00:25:43,466 --> 00:25:45,196
You know,
540
00:25:45,266 --> 00:25:48,166
I think I'm going to write Hannah.
541
00:25:48,233 --> 00:25:50,173
-Send her an email. -Oh.
542
00:25:50,233 --> 00:25:52,203
-What are you gonna say to her? -Uh,
543
00:25:52,266 --> 00:25:56,226
-tell her what's going on in my life, see how she's doing. -Hm.
544
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,500
I wish she could meet you, see that
545
00:25:58,566 --> 00:26:00,126
a reputable human being likes me.
546
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,730
-"Reputable human being?" You're gonna make me blush. -(laughs)
547
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,700
Well, she might look at me differently.
548
00:26:04,766 --> 00:26:08,096
I don't like being used as a prop.
549
00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:10,396
Oh yeah. No, of course.
550
00:26:10,466 --> 00:26:14,126
She'd like you is all. She'd talk to you.
551
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,730
Well, if down the road, you want my help communicating with her,
552
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,370
Hannah would have to be on board, obviously.
553
00:26:19,433 --> 00:26:21,073
So I could invite her?
554
00:26:21,633 --> 00:26:22,703
For next week?
555
00:26:22,766 --> 00:26:25,096
-When I write to her. -That's our last session.
556
00:26:25,166 --> 00:26:27,196
-Let's just focus on you. -Hey, this is...
557
00:26:28,266 --> 00:26:30,726
it's kind of a big thing for me though.
558
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,570
You haven't spoken to her in four years,
559
00:26:32,633 --> 00:26:34,403
so let's just take it a step at a time...
560
00:26:34,466 --> 00:26:37,696
But if I do reach out and she is receptive--
561
00:26:37,766 --> 00:26:39,466
The things you two have to unpack,
562
00:26:39,533 --> 00:26:42,373
-one session isn't-- -But I do have your permission...
563
00:26:43,733 --> 00:26:45,403
to invite her.
564
00:26:47,633 --> 00:26:50,073
You have my permission.
565
00:26:50,733 --> 00:26:52,003
(sighs)
566
00:26:53,566 --> 00:26:54,996
Thank you.
567
00:26:55,066 --> 00:26:58,126
♪ ♪
568
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,700
(opens door)
569
00:27:02,466 --> 00:27:04,166
(shuts door)
570
00:27:13,233 --> 00:27:16,303
♪ ♪
571
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,470
♪ ♪
572
00:28:12,433 --> 00:28:15,503
♪ ♪
41394
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