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Downloaded from
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-"Rosemary Pauline West,
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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on each of the ten counts
of murder,
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the sentence is one
of life imprisonment."
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-Throughout her trial, Rose West
maintained she was innocent.
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♪♪
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It turned out
that she was just 17
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when she began the most
sadistic killing spree
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Britain has ever witnessed.
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-She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.
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-The more macabre nature
of this torture
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got progressively worse,
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with one killing
following another.
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-But how did this local
housewife become one
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of the most depraved killers
in history?
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Could Rose's childhood have
transformed her into a killer?
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-Rose was definitely in charge
in the West household.
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There was no denying that.
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-We'll speak to the people
who knew her best...
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-You could hear the screams
and the shouts
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and it was awful to hear.
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-...and discover a history
of mental illness...
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-She went into a little
bubble of her own.
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-...brutal therapies...
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-The seizures would be violent.
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She would've not found solace
in the outside world.
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-...and uncover generations
of abuse.
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-He'd actually been grooming her
from quite a young age.
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-There's no doubt that
he altered his daughter Rose.
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♪♪
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-Was Rose West raised
to become a killer
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or was she born evil?
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♪♪
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1970 marks a new bohemian era
for Great Britain.
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As glam rock topped the charts,
the Brits adopted
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this new, free-spirited,
permissive lifestyle.
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♪♪
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And, for 16-year-old
Rosemary Letts,
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life couldn't be better.
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She's moved in
with her new lover,
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29-year-old Fred;
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his stepdaughter, Charmaine;
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and daughter, Anne Marie.
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And, nine months later,
the couple introduce
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baby Heather to the world.
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♪♪
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-Rose is living in a kind of
fairy-tale dream, at this point.
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She's got this little family
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and she has this older chap
who's going to take care of her.
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So things were looking
quite bright, at this point.
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And then, Fred goes to prison
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and her world
comes crashing down.
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-Rose learnt the hard way
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that the man of her dreams
was a petty thief.
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-Fred was a kleptomaniac.
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If anything wasn't actually
nailed down, he would take it
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and so he was often
in and out of prison.
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-Fred was sentenced
to ten months in jail,
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leaving Rose all alone
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to raise baby Heather,
Anne Marie, and Charmaine.
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-She was actually living
in squalor
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with three small children,
unable to cope.
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This wasn't the life
that Rose had dreamed of.
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This wasn't
what she'd bargained for.
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This fairy tale
wasn't working out.
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-Just as Rose was learning a lot
about Fred's past,
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he would learn about hers.
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[Static crackles]
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-Years after the young girl
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went missing,
her remains were uncovered,
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buried under a kitchen floor.
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-In the summer of 1971,
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17-year-old Rose murders
her first victim --
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eight-year-old Charmaine.
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-In Gloucester's Midland Road,
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she did not get on
with her stepmother.
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-She told Rose,
"You're not my mother.
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You can't do this.
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You can't say that to me,"
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and Rose would lash out.
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She just picked up anything
that was to hand
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and would hit, jab, do whatever.
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And then, she would tie her
to the bed and whip her.
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-After one brutal outburst,
Rose kills Charmaine.
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[Static crackles]
-Rosemary West has spent
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her first night
behind prison bars.
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Rosemary West has been charged
with ten counts of murder.
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She remains in custody,
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where she denies
all involvement.
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-Today,
Rosemary West's solicitor told
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how she's in severe shock.
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-In her cell
at Pucklechurch Remand Centre,
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Rosemary West's reaction
was simple --
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"I'm innocent,"
she told her lawyer.
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-Okay.
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♪♪
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I think that Rose
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was constructed
of her life experiences.
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She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront
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since her childhood,
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the childhood
that was stolen from her.
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-To understand how Rose
crossed the line
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from motherhood to murder,
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we must go back to a time
before she was even born.
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[Static crackles]
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Rosemary Pauline Letts grew up
in beautiful North Devon.
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Her father, Bill Letts,
was in the Navy
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and was often away
for months on end,
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leaving her mother, Daisy,
at home to raise the children.
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♪♪
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-My name is Gill and I grew up,
as a child,
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next door to the Letts family.
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They lived in a semi-detached
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and we were right next to them,
really, you know?
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It was fantastic growing up
in Northam.
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All the men, they all had jobs,
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and the women were
just housewives,
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bringing up the children,
all very house-proud.
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Lovely, brand-new houses,
nice gardens.
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A wonderful place to grow up in.
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It seemed like summer
was forever.
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Maybe you remember
the good times.
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-During the early 1950s,
Britain was kind of optimistic.
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It was coming out of a war.
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It had managed to get
a National Health Service
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and various other things,
however,
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there was a great deal
of poverty
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and you had an awful lot
of ex-servicemen
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coming into the community,
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ill-fitted to settle
into normal life.
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-Whilst pregnant with Rose,
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Daisy was suffering from severe
prenatal depression,
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so Bill had to leave the Navy
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and struggled
with the domestic duties
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when settling
into civilian life.
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-Bill Letts
could best be described
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as brutal, violent,
impossible to like.
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He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,
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terrified his wife, Daisy.
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-You could hear the screams
and the shouts and banging
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and it was awful to hear.
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Everybody talked about it
on the estate.
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Daisy's teeth would chatter,
she would be so frightened,
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and the neighbors would say
that she
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would come round crying
and ask for help.
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I think, on one occasion,
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my mother did bring
social services,
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but nothing was
ever done about it.
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-As the pregnancy progressed,
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Daisy sank
into a deeper depression
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and sought professional help.
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-The depression is so severe
that it's recommended
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that she consider ECT,
convulsive therapy.
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♪♪
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Very dramatic therapy, indeed,
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involving electrodes attached
to the skull,
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you know,
so-called shock therapy.
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-Electroconvulsive therapy
was something
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that was kind of first used
in the '40s and in the '50s,
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but it was very crude.
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The point about ECT is it has
to produce a seizure.
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Basically, the level of seizure,
in Daisy's day,
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was that where
they'd break teeth,
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they would bite
through their tongues,
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they would break bones.
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There was so much amnesia
following it,
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they wouldn't know which side
of the bus stop to stand at.
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It was kind of like
a crude weapon
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that should only ever be used
in very severe depression.
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So Rose would've felt some
of the effects of the ECT
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and the seizures
that were caused
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and they would be violent.
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♪♪
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-And it was only, I think,
the day before Rose was born
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that she had her last
lot of ECT.
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I recall the day she came home
with her shaven head,
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carrying baby Rose,
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and I remember going
to my mum, saying,
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"God, what's happened
to Mrs. Letts?
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She's got no hair!"
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-In my view, it could
very well be argued that
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Rose's neurological development
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will have been retarded,
to some degree,
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by the ECT procedures
that her mother underwent.
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To have ECT late
in the gestation period,
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this often is
the more sophisticated parts
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of the brain development,
the inhibitory parts,
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the parts that give us
a conscience,
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that give us empathy,
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that stop us, basically,
from doing heinous acts.
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♪♪
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-Rosemary Pauline Letts was born
on the 29th of November 1953.
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-Rose was a very pretty baby,
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lovely hair
and lovely olive skin.
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-But baby Rose was remembered
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for more than her
striking features.
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-I remember seeing
little Rose sitting
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in her pram in the garden.
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You never heard much from her
and she used to do
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all this rocking back
and forwards
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and, you know, she'd be
sat there and, you know...
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I don't know what that
was all about.
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It was a strange thing
for a kid to do, really,
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wasn't it?
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-Rose engaged in stereotypies,
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basically moving her head,
rocking her head.
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These things will generate
endorphins in the body.
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They will soothe the person.
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♪♪
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The rocking that you see in Rose
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would often be seen in children
that have been abused,
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where they're getting comfort
from this repeated movement.
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She would've not found solace
in the outside world
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and she would turn in
on this kind of behavior
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to change her biochemistry,
to make her feel okay.
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-Despite the hostile household,
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00:09:54,939 --> 00:09:57,838
Daisy and Bill continued
to have more children.
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But as the family grew, so did
Bill's resentment towards them.
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-It's impossible to convey
just how dysfunctional
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00:10:05,639 --> 00:10:07,745
the Letts family was.
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00:10:07,848 --> 00:10:09,298
-Well, the Letts family
didn't fit
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00:10:09,401 --> 00:10:12,715
into the community there at all.
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The children never played out.
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-You have a father,
in Bill Letts,
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00:10:17,409 --> 00:10:20,412
who is telling you to behave
properly at all times.
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Swear words are not used.
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00:10:21,793 --> 00:10:24,037
He doesn't use foul language,
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but he's insisting
that everything's clean.
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If you sit at the table,
no one says anything.
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I mean, proper.
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00:10:31,389 --> 00:10:34,254
Everything has
to be done correctly.
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This is a man who finally
found himself in the navy,
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00:10:38,707 --> 00:10:40,812
as, "Oh, I fit in now.
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00:10:40,916 --> 00:10:43,470
I haven't fitted in before,
but I now fit in.
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00:10:43,573 --> 00:10:45,575
I know where I am."
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-Having been forced
to leave the navy,
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00:10:47,957 --> 00:10:51,512
Bill had lost his status
and sense of self-worth,
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00:10:51,616 --> 00:10:54,032
something he would try
and regain at home
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00:10:54,136 --> 00:10:56,586
by using violence.
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00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:59,382
-Letts was fierce
and intimidating.
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00:10:59,486 --> 00:11:01,833
You have children who were made
to clean the carpet
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00:11:01,937 --> 00:11:03,593
with toothbrushes, you know.
244
00:11:03,697 --> 00:11:05,319
It's an extraordinary household.
245
00:11:05,423 --> 00:11:08,598
It's unlike anything
you could possibly imagine.
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00:11:08,702 --> 00:11:13,224
You have this tyrant of a father
telling them what to do.
247
00:11:13,327 --> 00:11:14,639
You have a mother
who's intimidated
248
00:11:14,743 --> 00:11:17,021
to clean everything
all the time.
249
00:11:17,124 --> 00:11:20,265
-The Letts household
was basically some kind
250
00:11:20,369 --> 00:11:22,889
of bizarre,
punitive military camp.
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00:11:22,992 --> 00:11:26,409
It was never really
a childlike atmosphere.
252
00:11:26,513 --> 00:11:29,033
It was always
an atmosphere of fear.
253
00:11:29,136 --> 00:11:33,382
-Every day, there was shouting,
bawling, and smacking and --
254
00:11:33,485 --> 00:11:35,246
He always walked
around with a beret,
255
00:11:35,349 --> 00:11:36,834
in like a military sort of walk
256
00:11:36,937 --> 00:11:39,802
with his long mac thing,
you know?
257
00:11:39,906 --> 00:11:41,562
And the kids used to walk
a bit like that.
258
00:11:41,666 --> 00:11:43,392
He was a bit regimented
with them.
259
00:11:43,495 --> 00:11:46,498
-Letts was -- and there's
no other word for it --
260
00:11:46,602 --> 00:11:47,637
a monster.
261
00:11:47,741 --> 00:11:48,949
♪♪
262
00:11:49,053 --> 00:11:50,675
From a very early age,
263
00:11:50,779 --> 00:11:54,403
Rose would've seen
the elder children's fears.
264
00:11:54,506 --> 00:11:57,061
She had a childhood
which, really,
265
00:11:57,164 --> 00:11:59,753
she retracted from the world.
266
00:11:59,857 --> 00:12:01,893
She went into a little
bubble of her own,
267
00:12:01,997 --> 00:12:05,069
creating her own life,
hiding in the corner,
268
00:12:05,172 --> 00:12:08,072
sitting at the back of the class
in primary school,
269
00:12:08,175 --> 00:12:12,386
playing with her own dolls,
removed from the world.
270
00:12:12,490 --> 00:12:15,458
-To avoid any beatings
at the hand of her father,
271
00:12:15,562 --> 00:12:19,255
Rose would become reclusive
and disengaged.
272
00:12:19,359 --> 00:12:21,430
-She had these
very winsome ways.
273
00:12:21,533 --> 00:12:23,743
So, while he'd come home
and shout
274
00:12:23,846 --> 00:12:26,504
and hit most
of the other children,
275
00:12:26,607 --> 00:12:28,195
if they hadn't done
their chores,
276
00:12:28,299 --> 00:12:31,371
he would let Rosie off.
277
00:12:31,474 --> 00:12:35,306
-Bill would exploit
Rose's passive demeanor.
278
00:12:35,409 --> 00:12:37,239
-Bill had a hidden agenda.
279
00:12:37,342 --> 00:12:41,208
He was someone who had
pedophilic tendencies.
280
00:12:41,312 --> 00:12:44,211
He was thinking that
that vulnerability that Rose had
281
00:12:44,315 --> 00:12:47,042
would make her someone
who could be coerced
282
00:12:47,145 --> 00:12:49,458
into sexual activity.
283
00:12:49,561 --> 00:12:54,290
-He'd actually been grooming her
from quite a young age.
284
00:12:54,394 --> 00:12:56,948
Rosie was the one
that was vulnerable.
285
00:12:57,052 --> 00:13:01,297
She wasthe one that wasn't
really going to say anything.
286
00:13:01,401 --> 00:13:05,405
-When Bill inflicted
sexual abuse on Rose,
287
00:13:05,508 --> 00:13:08,615
he was limiting her development.
288
00:13:08,718 --> 00:13:10,617
She was learning
the wrong skills
289
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,240
and the wrong
motivations for life.
290
00:13:13,344 --> 00:13:17,141
She was on a path that,
almost certainly, would lead
291
00:13:17,244 --> 00:13:22,077
to her being part of abusive
relations in the future,
292
00:13:22,180 --> 00:13:25,943
and even an instigator
of abusive relations.
293
00:13:26,046 --> 00:13:27,013
[Static crackles]
294
00:13:27,116 --> 00:13:32,535
♪♪
295
00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:33,916
-Aged 15,
296
00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:35,366
years of incest abuse
297
00:13:35,469 --> 00:13:37,437
had normalized sex for Rose.
298
00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:40,026
She had earnt a reputation
as a nymphomaniac
299
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:42,028
amongst the local older men.
300
00:13:42,131 --> 00:13:44,513
-Rose's engagement
with Bill Letts
301
00:13:44,616 --> 00:13:46,446
at an early stage
302
00:13:46,549 --> 00:13:49,794
meant that she had a model
in her head of the older man,
303
00:13:49,898 --> 00:13:51,209
which she found normal,
304
00:13:51,313 --> 00:13:53,556
which she could relate to.
305
00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:54,868
-One man who had heard
306
00:13:54,972 --> 00:13:57,250
about this highly
sexualized teenager
307
00:13:57,353 --> 00:14:00,391
was 29-year-old Fred West.
308
00:14:00,494 --> 00:14:02,911
-Fred lived near Rose
309
00:14:03,014 --> 00:14:05,948
and he had probably heard
her name mentioned
310
00:14:06,052 --> 00:14:07,743
because I think she
was getting quite infamous
311
00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:09,469
at this time locally.
312
00:14:09,572 --> 00:14:14,094
-I'm pretty sure that Fred
targeted Rose quite early on.
313
00:14:14,198 --> 00:14:15,544
[Chuckling]
She was voluptuous.
314
00:14:15,647 --> 00:14:18,271
She was obviously out there,
in every sense.
315
00:14:18,374 --> 00:14:20,929
I think Fred knew that.
316
00:14:21,032 --> 00:14:26,244
Fred was a wily man,
knew how to exploit.
317
00:14:26,348 --> 00:14:29,592
-She was at the bus station
in Cheltenham
318
00:14:29,696 --> 00:14:32,492
when this chap in this mac
shuffled over.
319
00:14:32,595 --> 00:14:36,323
He'd got like, she said,
"Ganky green teeth."
320
00:14:36,427 --> 00:14:41,570
He was quite scruffy,
but he had a good line in chat
321
00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:44,021
and she said he could charm
the birds off the trees,
322
00:14:44,124 --> 00:14:48,749
so, when they were going home
on the bus, he sat next to her
323
00:14:48,853 --> 00:14:50,717
and then, they discovered
they had lots in common,
324
00:14:50,820 --> 00:14:53,927
like they both
had mothers called Daisy,
325
00:14:54,031 --> 00:14:56,792
they both lived close by,
326
00:14:56,896 --> 00:15:02,384
that they [Laughing] both
had committed incest.
327
00:15:02,487 --> 00:15:06,975
When Fred started to talk
about things of a sexual nature,
328
00:15:07,078 --> 00:15:11,703
to do with like bondage, S&M,
all the stuff that he was into,
329
00:15:11,807 --> 00:15:15,259
then, any other girl
would've run off,
330
00:15:15,362 --> 00:15:16,536
but Rose didn't.
331
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:18,365
She stayed
332
00:15:18,469 --> 00:15:22,266
because that was kind of quite
a normal thing that she knew of.
333
00:15:22,369 --> 00:15:23,923
♪♪
334
00:15:24,026 --> 00:15:30,688
-I think Fred sensed,
almost in an animalistic way,
335
00:15:30,791 --> 00:15:34,864
that, "Here's someone who could
help me do what I want to do."
336
00:15:34,968 --> 00:15:37,867
-Having left his estranged wife,
Rena Costello,
337
00:15:37,971 --> 00:15:42,010
Fred invited Rose to move
into 25 Midland Road,
338
00:15:42,113 --> 00:15:44,046
along with his daughter,
Anne Marie;
339
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:46,152
and stepdaughter, Charmaine.
340
00:15:46,255 --> 00:15:48,948
-Rose made a leap
into what was very much
341
00:15:49,051 --> 00:15:52,192
the deep end of relationships.
342
00:15:52,296 --> 00:15:56,783
So she actually did move out
of the father's household,
343
00:15:56,886 --> 00:15:59,372
stepping into Fred West's life,
344
00:15:59,475 --> 00:16:04,860
looking after his
two current children.
345
00:16:04,964 --> 00:16:08,312
-Just weeks after they welcomed
their first child together,
346
00:16:08,415 --> 00:16:11,246
Fred was jailed for theft
347
00:16:11,349 --> 00:16:14,732
and Rose was left alone
to raise the three children --
348
00:16:14,835 --> 00:16:18,460
baby Heather,
Anne Marie, and Charmaine.
349
00:16:18,563 --> 00:16:23,085
-Charmaine had always been
defiant and stood up to Rose.
350
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:25,191
-Rose felt
very challenged by her
351
00:16:25,294 --> 00:16:29,091
and she couldn't cope
and she would lash out.
352
00:16:29,195 --> 00:16:31,128
It was almost like, at times,
353
00:16:31,231 --> 00:16:34,510
losing touch with reality,
she was so enraged, like Bill.
354
00:16:34,614 --> 00:16:37,444
And then, she would
355
00:16:37,548 --> 00:16:41,621
tie her to the bed,
her legs and arms outstretched,
356
00:16:41,724 --> 00:16:45,625
and whip her, just lash her.
357
00:16:45,728 --> 00:16:49,008
It's just a nightmare.
358
00:16:49,111 --> 00:16:51,907
Charmaine absolutely refused
to break down.
359
00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:55,911
She refused to cry
and that irked Rose,
360
00:16:56,015 --> 00:16:58,293
that she couldn't get
the better of her.
361
00:16:58,396 --> 00:17:02,538
-The fact that Fred had baggage
from previous relationships
362
00:17:02,642 --> 00:17:04,644
was highly resented by Rose,
363
00:17:04,747 --> 00:17:06,646
who had a very simple view
of things.
364
00:17:06,749 --> 00:17:08,682
Her vision of her and Fred
365
00:17:08,786 --> 00:17:10,546
having a wonderful
life together
366
00:17:10,650 --> 00:17:15,896
did not include previous
relationship children.
367
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,830
-And, when Charmaine would
not abide by the rules,
368
00:17:18,934 --> 00:17:21,419
Rose killed her.
369
00:17:21,523 --> 00:17:24,250
-I think Rose,
370
00:17:24,353 --> 00:17:29,255
with the stress and luggage
that she was carrying
371
00:17:29,358 --> 00:17:31,429
and the anger
that she had within her,
372
00:17:31,533 --> 00:17:34,639
she was capable
of killing Charmaine.
373
00:17:34,743 --> 00:17:39,127
She applied the same kind
of draconian regime
374
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:40,645
that she'd witnessed
with Bill Letts
375
00:17:40,749 --> 00:17:42,371
in her own house.
376
00:17:42,475 --> 00:17:45,374
I'm not saying that she
would've planned to murder her,
377
00:17:45,478 --> 00:17:48,998
but she might have just beaten
the living daylights out of her.
378
00:17:49,102 --> 00:17:50,379
-It is believed that Rose
379
00:17:50,483 --> 00:17:53,106
hid Charmaine's body
in the coal cellar
380
00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:56,247
and that Fred buried the body
beneath the kitchen floor
381
00:17:56,351 --> 00:17:59,630
when he was released from jail.
382
00:17:59,733 --> 00:18:01,770
-Charmaine's mother, Rena,
383
00:18:01,873 --> 00:18:06,637
came around, seeking out
where Charmaine had gone.
384
00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:08,535
Rena was becoming a problem
385
00:18:08,639 --> 00:18:12,367
and, in Fred's mind,
she had to go.
386
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:15,887
-After strangling Rena,
Fred buried her dismembered body
387
00:18:15,991 --> 00:18:18,304
in a field near
his childhood home.
388
00:18:18,407 --> 00:18:22,066
But this was not the first time
Fred had committed murder.
389
00:18:22,170 --> 00:18:25,932
-He has then told Rose
about Anna McFall
390
00:18:26,035 --> 00:18:28,314
and the child
that Anna was having
391
00:18:28,417 --> 00:18:29,660
and where they're buried.
392
00:18:29,763 --> 00:18:32,041
-Three years
before meeting Rose,
393
00:18:32,145 --> 00:18:34,492
Fred murdered
his 18-year-old mistress
394
00:18:34,596 --> 00:18:38,531
and their unborn child to avoid
his wife Rena finding out.
395
00:18:38,634 --> 00:18:43,087
-So, now, they have this bond
between them.
396
00:18:43,191 --> 00:18:45,745
They've got a hold
over each other
397
00:18:45,848 --> 00:18:50,612
and that won't break until many,
many years and murders later.
398
00:18:50,715 --> 00:18:52,269
♪♪
399
00:18:52,372 --> 00:18:53,442
[Static crackles]
400
00:18:53,546 --> 00:18:55,686
♪♪
401
00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:57,998
Fred West had
a dysfunctional upbringing
402
00:18:58,102 --> 00:19:00,656
by his parents,
Walter and Daisy,
403
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,142
in a remote part
of the countryside,
404
00:19:03,245 --> 00:19:06,075
15 miles outside of Gloucester.
405
00:19:06,179 --> 00:19:09,148
I was the authorized biographer
of Frederick West,
406
00:19:09,251 --> 00:19:11,080
given his papers
by the officials listed
407
00:19:11,184 --> 00:19:12,634
at the supreme court.
408
00:19:12,737 --> 00:19:15,326
The first time I ever heard
Frederick West's voice
409
00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:16,914
was when I listened
to the first tape,
410
00:19:17,017 --> 00:19:20,780
describing, in a little singsong
Herefordshire accent,
411
00:19:20,883 --> 00:19:21,953
what had been happening.
412
00:19:22,057 --> 00:19:23,783
♪♪
413
00:19:23,886 --> 00:19:26,268
Important point to remember
about Fred's childhood
414
00:19:26,372 --> 00:19:29,823
was that he came
from an extraordinarily
415
00:19:29,927 --> 00:19:32,688
incestuous household.
416
00:19:32,792 --> 00:19:36,175
Fred himself talked about it
in his police interviews.
417
00:19:36,278 --> 00:19:41,076
Daisy took Fred to bed
and initiated him into sex
418
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:43,009
at a very early age.
419
00:19:43,112 --> 00:19:47,324
Fred told the authorities his
father had had sex with animals
420
00:19:47,427 --> 00:19:48,773
and there's no question
his father
421
00:19:48,877 --> 00:19:51,362
persuaded Fred
to have sex with animals,
422
00:19:51,466 --> 00:19:53,916
particularly, sheep.
423
00:19:54,020 --> 00:19:55,194
It wasn't even surprising.
424
00:19:55,297 --> 00:19:56,747
[Baa]
425
00:19:56,850 --> 00:19:58,818
Fred also witnessed his father
426
00:19:58,921 --> 00:20:00,613
having sex with young girls,
427
00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:04,720
but he was also well aware that
his father wouldn't hesitate
428
00:20:04,824 --> 00:20:09,691
to hurt a young girl
that didn't do what he wanted.
429
00:20:09,794 --> 00:20:14,730
They lived in a world which was
remote from convention.
430
00:20:14,834 --> 00:20:16,318
They did what they wanted
431
00:20:16,422 --> 00:20:18,976
and this was
Walter West's universe.
432
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:20,736
He commanded it.
433
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,532
What Daisy did --
"If you want to kill a pig,
434
00:20:23,636 --> 00:20:24,602
we'll hang it up in the kitchen.
435
00:20:24,706 --> 00:20:26,604
It'll bleed onto the floor."
436
00:20:26,708 --> 00:20:31,057
This was not anything like
a suburban upbringing.
437
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,680
It was completely
opposite of that.
438
00:20:33,784 --> 00:20:36,580
Fred then took those habits
and translated them
439
00:20:36,683 --> 00:20:40,342
into an urban environment,
Gloucester itself.
440
00:20:40,446 --> 00:20:44,312
He was still, really,
a farm laborer at heart.
441
00:20:44,415 --> 00:20:48,730
Everybody I ever talked to
about Fred West
442
00:20:48,833 --> 00:20:51,422
said the same thing --
"You'd never have believed it."
443
00:20:51,526 --> 00:20:54,529
He was just --
well, he was just commonplace.
444
00:20:54,632 --> 00:20:56,979
He was a little
commonplace little man.
445
00:20:57,083 --> 00:21:00,983
But one person who always knew
exactly what Fred was like
446
00:21:01,087 --> 00:21:02,157
was Rose.
447
00:21:02,261 --> 00:21:03,607
Rose knew
from the very beginning
448
00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:05,747
and she also knew how
to press his buttons.
449
00:21:05,850 --> 00:21:10,821
♪♪
450
00:21:10,924 --> 00:21:14,411
-As soon as Rose turned 18,
they got married.
451
00:21:14,514 --> 00:21:16,551
After the birth
of their second child,
452
00:21:16,654 --> 00:21:18,725
they bought their first home
and moved
453
00:21:18,829 --> 00:21:21,245
into 25 Cromwell Street
in Gloucester,
454
00:21:21,349 --> 00:21:24,490
along with daughters
Heather and Anne Marie.
455
00:21:24,593 --> 00:21:26,008
-Owning their own home,
456
00:21:26,112 --> 00:21:27,769
particularly Rose,
at such a young age,
457
00:21:27,872 --> 00:21:29,564
was a huge thing for her
458
00:21:29,667 --> 00:21:30,979
and, of course,
she was really pleased
459
00:21:31,082 --> 00:21:33,947
to be moving
into 25 Cromwell Street.
460
00:21:34,051 --> 00:21:37,537
-I mean, Rose, finally,
at 25 Cromwell Street,
461
00:21:37,641 --> 00:21:41,714
gets her own domain
and she treats it as her domain
462
00:21:41,817 --> 00:21:43,647
and she rules it
with a rod of iron.
463
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:46,097
She rules her own children
even more fiercely
464
00:21:46,201 --> 00:21:49,618
than Bill intimidated her
as a child.
465
00:21:49,722 --> 00:21:52,794
♪♪
466
00:21:52,897 --> 00:21:55,969
-To help pay the way
with the mortgage,
467
00:21:56,073 --> 00:21:58,386
the upstairs were turned
into bedsits
468
00:21:58,489 --> 00:22:02,321
and they would let them to young
sort of transient people.
469
00:22:02,424 --> 00:22:06,601
♪♪
470
00:22:06,704 --> 00:22:09,017
-I was actually a resident
at 25 Cromwell Street,
471
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,985
with Rosemary and Fred
being my landlord and landlady.
472
00:22:12,089 --> 00:22:15,057
I wasn't working while I was
living there, or studying.
473
00:22:15,161 --> 00:22:17,508
I'd just walked out of home
when I was 16.
474
00:22:17,612 --> 00:22:20,062
I was just a runaway.
[Laughs]
475
00:22:20,166 --> 00:22:21,685
I attended
St James Junior School
476
00:22:21,788 --> 00:22:23,480
with Anne Marie
in the year below,
477
00:22:23,583 --> 00:22:25,274
so I knew them quite well.
478
00:22:25,378 --> 00:22:28,588
I'd seen Rose previously
picking Anne Marie up.
479
00:22:28,692 --> 00:22:32,040
I never really kind of put
two and two together
480
00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:33,697
as Rose West
being her stepmother
481
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,113
because she didn't really
look much different
482
00:22:36,216 --> 00:22:38,149
in the way that she dressed.
483
00:22:38,253 --> 00:22:42,637
Schoolgirl-type sort of clothes
with skirts and trainers.
484
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:44,432
Not what you would expect
for somebody that's a mother,
485
00:22:44,535 --> 00:22:46,572
more somebody that was just
going on to high school.
486
00:22:46,675 --> 00:22:47,987
♪♪
487
00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:50,299
I bumped into Anne Marie in town
488
00:22:50,403 --> 00:22:54,062
and Anne Marie was talking to me
about her parents had a room.
489
00:22:54,165 --> 00:22:56,409
So I went to the café
to meet them
490
00:22:56,513 --> 00:22:58,894
and there was Fred and Rose.
491
00:22:58,998 --> 00:23:00,655
Rose was a very forward person.
492
00:23:00,758 --> 00:23:02,726
She said it as it was
and she seemed
493
00:23:02,829 --> 00:23:05,176
to be the dominant person
in the relationship.
494
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,526
Fred wasn't passive, but Fred
was quiet, compared to Rose.
495
00:23:09,629 --> 00:23:11,148
He was just sort of like
saying, you know,
496
00:23:11,251 --> 00:23:12,943
"It's your choice, if you want
to come and have a look,"
497
00:23:13,046 --> 00:23:15,394
whereas Rose was, "This is
the rules and regulations,"
498
00:23:15,497 --> 00:23:18,293
so there was a lot of difference
between the two of them.
499
00:23:18,397 --> 00:23:22,297
From what I can remember,
I moved in about a week later.
500
00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:24,264
I'd never lived away from home
before, so, to me,
501
00:23:24,368 --> 00:23:28,752
it was a room that I could rent
and be my own person.
502
00:23:28,855 --> 00:23:30,409
It was a very clean house.
503
00:23:30,512 --> 00:23:31,686
It always smelt fresh.
504
00:23:31,789 --> 00:23:33,342
It smelt of bleach most
of the time
505
00:23:33,446 --> 00:23:35,379
and everywhere I went,
it was very clean.
506
00:23:35,483 --> 00:23:37,726
♪♪
507
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:39,521
-Jayne soon began to realize
508
00:23:39,625 --> 00:23:42,351
that Fred and Rose
were no ordinary couple.
509
00:23:42,455 --> 00:23:44,630
♪♪
510
00:23:44,733 --> 00:23:46,217
The doorbell went, but,
511
00:23:46,321 --> 00:23:49,635
it lit up a red light
above the living room door.
512
00:23:49,738 --> 00:23:52,396
And I [Laughs] jokingly said,
513
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:54,018
"Oh, is this
the red light district?"
514
00:23:54,122 --> 00:23:56,193
And then Fred come walking in
from the other side
515
00:23:56,296 --> 00:23:59,023
and went through.
516
00:23:59,127 --> 00:24:01,785
That's how I found out that
she was having other men in.
517
00:24:01,888 --> 00:24:05,098
♪♪
518
00:24:05,202 --> 00:24:08,964
-Rose used her insatiable
appetite for sex to make money,
519
00:24:09,068 --> 00:24:11,933
working as a prostitute
out of the family home,
520
00:24:12,036 --> 00:24:13,900
something which Fred encouraged.
521
00:24:14,004 --> 00:24:16,593
-This was somewhere
where they had space,
522
00:24:16,696 --> 00:24:18,457
where they could invest,
if you like,
523
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,013
in their bizarre activities,
for sex to become
524
00:24:23,116 --> 00:24:27,086
something that Rose could
indulge in endlessly.
525
00:24:27,189 --> 00:24:29,606
-I --
526
00:24:29,709 --> 00:24:32,263
I kind of was a bit
confused over it.
527
00:24:32,367 --> 00:24:34,058
Again, I was only 16 and naive,
528
00:24:34,162 --> 00:24:38,131
so why does a woman
want other men in?
529
00:24:38,235 --> 00:24:39,961
Maybe if that's how they
fulfill their relationship,
530
00:24:40,064 --> 00:24:41,065
that's their choice.
531
00:24:41,169 --> 00:24:44,517
♪♪
532
00:24:44,621 --> 00:24:47,416
-It gave them the chance,
as it were,
533
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,076
to partition their lives,
to be able to control elements,
534
00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:55,873
for Fred to engage
in voyeuristic activity
535
00:24:55,977 --> 00:24:57,944
with Rose's sex activity.
536
00:24:58,048 --> 00:25:00,982
-Yes, she was charging money,
but this was more
537
00:25:01,085 --> 00:25:05,711
about Fred watching
and peering through spy holes
538
00:25:05,814 --> 00:25:09,956
that he made
in all the doors and walls.
539
00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:13,132
He had an intercom system
built, as well,
540
00:25:13,235 --> 00:25:15,928
so, wherever he was,
he could listen.
541
00:25:16,031 --> 00:25:17,550
-He loved watching Rose,
542
00:25:17,654 --> 00:25:19,552
particularly,
performing sexually.
543
00:25:19,656 --> 00:25:22,037
He would record it as well.
544
00:25:22,141 --> 00:25:23,832
He was an archetypal voyeur.
545
00:25:23,936 --> 00:25:28,043
He took great pleasure
in having sex with Rose
546
00:25:28,147 --> 00:25:29,942
after she'd had sex
with somebody else.
547
00:25:30,045 --> 00:25:32,807
That was one of the things
that really turned Fred on.
548
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:34,291
♪♪
549
00:25:34,394 --> 00:25:36,017
-Sometimes he would coat himself
550
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,433
in the sperm of her clients,
551
00:25:38,537 --> 00:25:41,470
that he'd take from condoms,
552
00:25:41,574 --> 00:25:46,061
so he felt he was breeding
something like a master race.
553
00:25:46,165 --> 00:25:48,063
It was just crazy stuff
554
00:25:48,167 --> 00:25:50,756
and Rose went along
with those delusions,
555
00:25:50,859 --> 00:25:54,622
so they really were caught up
in a folie à deux.
556
00:25:54,725 --> 00:25:57,625
-I'm one of the few people
who actually saw the videotapes
557
00:25:57,728 --> 00:25:59,834
that Fred made of Rose
558
00:25:59,937 --> 00:26:03,838
doing various extraordinary
sexual things.
559
00:26:03,941 --> 00:26:05,598
Absolutely revolting.
560
00:26:05,702 --> 00:26:08,118
She was actually
performing for Fred,
561
00:26:08,221 --> 00:26:10,845
inserting things into herself,
562
00:26:10,948 --> 00:26:14,124
showing the knickers
that she'd brought back and used
563
00:26:14,227 --> 00:26:16,609
and kept in jars on the
mantelpiece in her room.
564
00:26:16,713 --> 00:26:21,096
She was showing
how enthusiastic she was.
565
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,272
And Fred very seldom
appeared himself.
566
00:26:24,375 --> 00:26:26,170
He occasionally would
pop his head round,
567
00:26:26,274 --> 00:26:28,034
but he was always
behind the camera
568
00:26:28,138 --> 00:26:29,898
and Rose was always
in front of it.
569
00:26:30,002 --> 00:26:31,624
And that played out
570
00:26:31,728 --> 00:26:33,177
throughout their
entire marriage.
571
00:26:33,281 --> 00:26:34,454
I've used the phrase before
572
00:26:34,558 --> 00:26:36,215
and I mean it, still,
to this day --
573
00:26:36,318 --> 00:26:38,942
she was, in every sense,
the sorcerer's apprentice.
574
00:26:39,045 --> 00:26:40,909
♪♪
575
00:26:41,013 --> 00:26:43,084
-The Wests
were pushing boundaries,
576
00:26:43,187 --> 00:26:46,397
experimenting with fetishes.
577
00:26:46,501 --> 00:26:50,332
She liked --
It's no secret.
578
00:26:50,436 --> 00:26:53,370
Fred himself talked about it
in his police interviews,
579
00:26:53,473 --> 00:26:56,373
that Rose liked rough sex.
580
00:26:56,476 --> 00:26:58,099
She liked hard.
581
00:26:58,202 --> 00:26:59,618
She didn't like any chatting up.
582
00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:02,621
She liked fierceness.
583
00:27:02,724 --> 00:27:04,036
♪♪
584
00:27:04,139 --> 00:27:06,452
-But Rose wanted more,
and would turn
585
00:27:06,555 --> 00:27:09,248
to the increasingly popular
classified adverts
586
00:27:09,351 --> 00:27:11,319
to appease her sexual desires.
587
00:27:11,422 --> 00:27:13,632
♪♪
588
00:27:13,735 --> 00:27:17,843
-Here you have the development
of strong paraphilias --
589
00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:21,812
Rose becoming exhibitionist
and Fred becoming a voyeur
590
00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:24,919
and getting visions
of pornographic films
591
00:27:25,022 --> 00:27:26,955
and other kind of things.
592
00:27:27,059 --> 00:27:30,856
He was full of ideas,
that were often macabre.
593
00:27:30,959 --> 00:27:33,548
♪♪
594
00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:37,414
-So, what you'd got was this
extraordinary conjunction
595
00:27:37,517 --> 00:27:39,830
Of a highly sexualized
young woman
596
00:27:39,934 --> 00:27:41,625
and a very manipulative man.
597
00:27:41,729 --> 00:27:43,006
♪♪
598
00:27:43,109 --> 00:27:46,768
Okay, so does she marry
her father?
599
00:27:46,872 --> 00:27:48,874
Is West really Bill Letts?
600
00:27:48,977 --> 00:27:51,152
It's possible.
There's an element of it.
601
00:27:51,255 --> 00:27:52,256
Not complete, of course.
602
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,810
It's too glib.
603
00:27:53,913 --> 00:27:55,259
But there is an element there.
604
00:27:55,363 --> 00:27:58,642
There's an element of Fred
targeting Rose
605
00:27:58,746 --> 00:28:00,955
and then, Rose targeting Fred.
606
00:28:01,058 --> 00:28:06,546
♪♪
607
00:28:06,650 --> 00:28:08,341
-Outside of Cromwell Street,
608
00:28:08,445 --> 00:28:11,206
Rose was keen to portray
a normal life,
609
00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:15,210
although her obsession with sex
was known amongst the locals.
610
00:28:15,314 --> 00:28:17,799
-Rose West was known as,
you know, basically, a slut,
611
00:28:17,903 --> 00:28:19,076
but she liked her men.
612
00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:20,906
She was known for,
you know, flashing
613
00:28:21,009 --> 00:28:24,047
or trying to show herself off
and things like that, yeah.
614
00:28:24,150 --> 00:28:27,602
She'd always like to touch you
or she could be quite, you know.
615
00:28:27,706 --> 00:28:30,053
She liked to let you know
she liked you.
616
00:28:30,156 --> 00:28:31,917
I didn't feel comfortable
around her.
617
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:33,919
I couldn't wait to get
away from her.
618
00:28:34,022 --> 00:28:35,783
You just knew there was
something a bit
619
00:28:35,886 --> 00:28:38,544
seedy about her, you know?
620
00:28:38,647 --> 00:28:42,375
My mum and dad used to run
the St Peters Social Club
621
00:28:42,479 --> 00:28:43,963
and, of course,
Fred and Rose West
622
00:28:44,067 --> 00:28:45,206
used to go there.
623
00:28:45,309 --> 00:28:46,828
Rose used to turn up
to the events
624
00:28:46,932 --> 00:28:49,037
like, you know,
with the cowboy hat, the guns,
625
00:28:49,141 --> 00:28:53,007
and everything was so hypo,
you know, around her table.
626
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:54,111
She had a temper on her.
627
00:28:54,215 --> 00:28:55,699
Even in the club,
628
00:28:55,803 --> 00:28:58,357
she'd shout at the kids
and tell them to sit down.
629
00:28:58,460 --> 00:29:00,911
She was, you know,
like a sergeant major
with them, you know?
630
00:29:01,015 --> 00:29:02,464
Sometimes it could be
uncomfortable
631
00:29:02,568 --> 00:29:04,466
seeing her snap
and shout at the kids,
632
00:29:04,570 --> 00:29:06,089
but, you know,
they knew their place.
633
00:29:06,192 --> 00:29:09,195
When she said something,
they knew and they sat there,
634
00:29:09,299 --> 00:29:11,335
you know,
and they toed the line.
635
00:29:11,439 --> 00:29:12,992
♪♪
636
00:29:13,096 --> 00:29:14,891
When Rose hit the dance floor,
you know,
637
00:29:14,994 --> 00:29:18,618
she was like flirty-dancing,
you know, sexy-dancing.
638
00:29:18,722 --> 00:29:20,310
Fred was always shy.
639
00:29:20,413 --> 00:29:21,587
He'd smile.
640
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:23,658
Rose would always
keep an eye on Fred --
641
00:29:23,762 --> 00:29:25,902
where he was going,
who he was talking to --
642
00:29:26,005 --> 00:29:29,733
and she always watched him
and she was the boss.
643
00:29:29,837 --> 00:29:32,943
She was probably trying
to be someone she wasn't
644
00:29:33,047 --> 00:29:34,876
when she was on the dance floor.
645
00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:37,051
You know, that was her
de-stressor kind of thing,
646
00:29:37,154 --> 00:29:38,500
trying to convince herself
647
00:29:38,604 --> 00:29:41,124
she was a normal person,
I suppose, you know?
648
00:29:41,227 --> 00:29:42,608
-But this new confidence,
649
00:29:42,711 --> 00:29:45,507
both inside and outside
of Cromwell Street,
650
00:29:45,611 --> 00:29:47,613
was a far cry
from Rose as a child
651
00:29:47,716 --> 00:29:49,304
[Static crackles]
...who struggled,
652
00:29:49,408 --> 00:29:51,962
socially and academically.
653
00:29:52,066 --> 00:29:55,241
-When Rose started school,
her sort of inabilities
654
00:29:55,345 --> 00:29:57,726
with language, understanding;
655
00:29:57,830 --> 00:30:00,488
thumb-sucking --
a lot of the stereotypies --
656
00:30:00,591 --> 00:30:02,662
became more obvious,
657
00:30:02,766 --> 00:30:05,044
contrasted with all
the other children.
658
00:30:05,148 --> 00:30:08,807
-There's no doubt that Rose was
not a particularly bright child.
659
00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:13,881
She was slow to pick up
the obvious things --
660
00:30:13,984 --> 00:30:16,538
reading, writing,
and arithmetic.
661
00:30:16,642 --> 00:30:20,370
-In these very early days,
the way of treating children
662
00:30:20,473 --> 00:30:23,235
who were not showing signs
of good development was
663
00:30:23,338 --> 00:30:24,926
to place them in the corner,
664
00:30:25,030 --> 00:30:27,066
place a dunce's cap
on their head,
665
00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:30,829
make them face the wall,
basically, to single them out
666
00:30:30,932 --> 00:30:33,038
and say, "Don't do that.
667
00:30:33,141 --> 00:30:34,660
Improve.
Look,
668
00:30:34,763 --> 00:30:36,800
you're going to be
outside of society,
669
00:30:36,904 --> 00:30:38,526
if you don't."
670
00:30:38,629 --> 00:30:40,493
The fact that the British
education system
671
00:30:40,597 --> 00:30:43,462
actually adopted
a dunce's cap --
672
00:30:43,565 --> 00:30:46,051
this pointed cone
that you placed on the head
673
00:30:46,154 --> 00:30:48,639
as the child was isolated
and faced the wall --
674
00:30:48,743 --> 00:30:51,850
was a bizarre,
primitive practice.
675
00:30:51,953 --> 00:30:55,715
This was kind of hand-me-down
from bizarre religious beliefs
676
00:30:55,819 --> 00:30:57,510
that, somehow or other,
the dunce's cap
677
00:30:57,614 --> 00:31:00,997
was a conduit
for God's intelligence.
678
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:03,654
Complete nonsense
and the effect on children
679
00:31:03,758 --> 00:31:05,725
was like secondary labeling.
680
00:31:05,829 --> 00:31:09,833
You know, you were being
labeled as being stupid,
681
00:31:09,937 --> 00:31:11,800
but then,
you could take on that label
682
00:31:11,904 --> 00:31:15,494
and just start acting stupid
with full license
683
00:31:15,597 --> 00:31:17,289
because that's the role
they've given you.
684
00:31:17,392 --> 00:31:18,911
♪♪
685
00:31:19,015 --> 00:31:22,259
-At school, Rose reverted back
to what she knew --
686
00:31:22,363 --> 00:31:24,675
being a self-absorbed recluse.
687
00:31:24,779 --> 00:31:27,161
-That was her way of surviving
688
00:31:27,264 --> 00:31:29,818
an environment
that she didn't understand.
689
00:31:29,922 --> 00:31:32,614
She was never allowed to play,
in the conventional sense,
690
00:31:32,718 --> 00:31:33,926
with other children,
691
00:31:34,030 --> 00:31:36,825
except in a school form
environment.
692
00:31:36,929 --> 00:31:40,450
The only socialization she got
was within the house.
693
00:31:40,553 --> 00:31:42,210
♪♪
694
00:31:42,314 --> 00:31:45,662
-Rose struggled academically
and was held back a year,
695
00:31:45,765 --> 00:31:49,252
where she gained confidence
being the eldest child in class.
696
00:31:49,355 --> 00:31:52,911
Both her parents now had jobs,
meaning Rose was often left
697
00:31:53,014 --> 00:31:55,396
in charge
of her younger brothers.
698
00:31:55,499 --> 00:31:58,054
-She had always taken
a great interest in dolls
699
00:31:58,157 --> 00:32:00,780
and then, treats
her two younger brothers
700
00:32:00,884 --> 00:32:02,575
as the equivalent of dolls.
701
00:32:02,679 --> 00:32:03,749
She would bathe them.
702
00:32:03,852 --> 00:32:04,784
She would put them to bed.
703
00:32:04,888 --> 00:32:06,855
She would dress them.
704
00:32:06,959 --> 00:32:12,551
Those two younger brothers
were Rose's...playthings.
705
00:32:12,654 --> 00:32:14,829
♪♪
706
00:32:14,933 --> 00:32:16,313
-As Rose matured,
707
00:32:16,417 --> 00:32:20,248
she learnt to use violence
to protect her brothers.
708
00:32:20,352 --> 00:32:22,699
-Rose began to identify
with Bill
709
00:32:22,802 --> 00:32:24,701
and think of herself
being someone
710
00:32:24,804 --> 00:32:27,359
who was strong
and could create fear in others
711
00:32:27,462 --> 00:32:29,085
and this actually led
712
00:32:29,188 --> 00:32:33,779
to Rose going out
and bullying other children.
713
00:32:33,882 --> 00:32:37,921
-Rose reached puberty
before other kids in her class
714
00:32:38,025 --> 00:32:41,545
and, from being a meek,
timid girl who was bullied,
715
00:32:41,649 --> 00:32:45,308
she became this big,
strong girl who could
716
00:32:45,411 --> 00:32:47,034
knock people about, and she did,
717
00:32:47,137 --> 00:32:49,484
because she would protect
her younger brothers,
718
00:32:49,588 --> 00:32:53,143
who were, you know,
skinny little chaps.
719
00:32:53,247 --> 00:32:54,593
-When her brothers
were attacked,
720
00:32:54,696 --> 00:32:56,215
Rose would go after them.
721
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:59,253
Suddenly, the bullied
turns round and bullies back.
722
00:32:59,356 --> 00:33:02,394
She was not going to have
her brothers hurt
723
00:33:02,497 --> 00:33:05,535
and she would lump them,
as they called it.
724
00:33:05,638 --> 00:33:08,814
-So you've got
this interesting dichotomy
725
00:33:08,917 --> 00:33:11,782
between sexuality at one point;
726
00:33:11,886 --> 00:33:16,477
and violence, bullying,
at another.
727
00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:18,444
-Rose would've felt powerful
from that.
728
00:33:18,548 --> 00:33:20,377
She would've felt
in control herself,
729
00:33:20,481 --> 00:33:22,897
where she'd always felt
out of control.
730
00:33:23,001 --> 00:33:24,554
So, now, she has power.
731
00:33:24,657 --> 00:33:25,865
Now, she's enjoying that.
732
00:33:25,969 --> 00:33:27,764
Now, she's going to go out
and do this.
733
00:33:27,867 --> 00:33:30,284
So this makes
quite a dangerous stage
734
00:33:30,387 --> 00:33:32,251
for the next part
of the journey,
735
00:33:32,355 --> 00:33:34,184
where she meets Fred West.
736
00:33:34,288 --> 00:33:37,808
♪♪
737
00:33:37,912 --> 00:33:41,398
-Rose gained confidence
through sex and violence,
738
00:33:41,502 --> 00:33:44,815
passions amplified
by her relationship with Fred,
739
00:33:44,919 --> 00:33:45,989
so they wanted somewhere
740
00:33:46,093 --> 00:33:48,854
to combine both
of these desires.
741
00:33:48,957 --> 00:33:52,444
-This is where Fred goes on
to extend the house
742
00:33:52,547 --> 00:33:56,689
and to develop the basement.
743
00:33:56,793 --> 00:33:59,451
-Fred was very proud
of his cellar.
744
00:33:59,554 --> 00:34:03,041
I can remember, one day, going
through to peg the washing out
745
00:34:03,144 --> 00:34:05,733
and Fred was
out in the back garden,
746
00:34:05,836 --> 00:34:07,286
fiddling about, doing something.
747
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:08,874
I can't recall what it was.
748
00:34:08,977 --> 00:34:10,738
He said, "Oh, I've repainted
the cellar downstairs.
749
00:34:10,841 --> 00:34:11,739
Do you want to have a look?"
750
00:34:11,842 --> 00:34:13,706
I said, "What's a cellar?"
751
00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:15,984
He said, "It's where
the children go to play."
752
00:34:16,088 --> 00:34:17,400
I said, "Okay."
753
00:34:17,503 --> 00:34:19,643
And I'm claustrophobic,
754
00:34:19,747 --> 00:34:22,232
but I thought,
"Well, don't be rude." [Laughs]
755
00:34:22,336 --> 00:34:23,820
And he took me down
into the cellar,
756
00:34:23,923 --> 00:34:28,031
which was a horrible,
dark, dank place.
757
00:34:28,135 --> 00:34:30,413
[Static crackles]
♪♪
758
00:34:30,516 --> 00:34:32,725
-In the lower basement area,
759
00:34:32,829 --> 00:34:35,556
he decided he was going
to have a torture chamber.
760
00:34:35,659 --> 00:34:39,560
[Static crackling]
♪♪
761
00:34:39,663 --> 00:34:43,391
They both shared
this sadistic view
762
00:34:43,495 --> 00:34:50,191
of subjecting human beings
to horrific circumstances.
763
00:34:50,295 --> 00:34:51,917
[Static crackles]
♪♪
764
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:56,335
Fred was becoming
a creative psychopath.
765
00:34:56,439 --> 00:35:00,374
His obsession
on all things gynecological
766
00:35:00,477 --> 00:35:06,276
was drawing him into some very,
very sadistic and bizarre ideas.
767
00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:10,315
♪♪
768
00:35:10,418 --> 00:35:11,971
[Dog barks in distance]
769
00:35:12,075 --> 00:35:15,561
-Despite Rose being married
and owning her own home,
770
00:35:15,665 --> 00:35:19,117
her father Bill was still
firmly rooted in her life.
771
00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:20,808
-There was still
a sexual relationship
772
00:35:20,911 --> 00:35:22,223
between Rose
and her father, Bill.
773
00:35:22,327 --> 00:35:24,950
At one point,
he was living in a caravan
774
00:35:25,053 --> 00:35:26,814
at the bottom
of Cromwell Street.
775
00:35:26,917 --> 00:35:29,437
♪♪
776
00:35:29,541 --> 00:35:33,131
-I found Bill a bit
777
00:35:33,234 --> 00:35:36,410
scary, I think, is the easiest
way of describing him.
778
00:35:36,513 --> 00:35:39,689
He kind of like was looking
through me and --
779
00:35:39,792 --> 00:35:40,862
How do you explain it?
780
00:35:40,966 --> 00:35:43,071
Like sizing me up and --
781
00:35:43,175 --> 00:35:45,004
All I know is he sat
with his hand under the table,
782
00:35:45,108 --> 00:35:49,285
which kind of made me feel
a bit at unease.
783
00:35:49,388 --> 00:35:52,011
He was very sort of
concentrating on me.
784
00:35:52,115 --> 00:35:54,566
He did have a look in his eyes
that wasn't very nice.
785
00:35:54,669 --> 00:35:55,946
[Laughs]
786
00:35:56,050 --> 00:35:57,327
I wouldn't like to guess,
to be fair,
787
00:35:57,431 --> 00:35:58,846
what Bill was doing
under that table.
788
00:35:58,949 --> 00:36:00,399
♪♪
789
00:36:00,503 --> 00:36:04,438
-I think Rose was always
fascinated by her father.
790
00:36:04,541 --> 00:36:05,922
They couldn't stay apart.
791
00:36:06,025 --> 00:36:09,995
They were, in a sense,
inextricably linked
792
00:36:10,098 --> 00:36:11,893
and you couldn't break that.
793
00:36:11,997 --> 00:36:13,723
-I mean, I've always found it
quite extraordinary,
794
00:36:13,826 --> 00:36:19,177
how Rose continued to have sex
with her father into adulthood.
795
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,662
Whether she got any
sexual satisfaction from it,
796
00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:23,111
I don't know.
797
00:36:23,215 --> 00:36:25,804
And you just get into this
revolting quagmire
798
00:36:25,907 --> 00:36:29,911
of abuse through the
generations, you know.
799
00:36:30,015 --> 00:36:32,983
That sense, of a father's right
800
00:36:33,087 --> 00:36:35,331
to have sex
with his own children
801
00:36:35,434 --> 00:36:38,472
is a thread that runs
through the story
802
00:36:38,575 --> 00:36:42,545
of Rosemary Letts, as she was;
and Frederick West.
803
00:36:42,648 --> 00:36:46,238
♪♪
804
00:36:46,342 --> 00:36:49,207
-Bill remained ever present
in Rose's life
805
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:51,278
and, with Fred's blessing,
he continued
806
00:36:51,381 --> 00:36:54,073
his sexual relationship
with his daughter.
807
00:36:54,177 --> 00:36:56,455
But what was it
about Bill's upbringing
808
00:36:56,559 --> 00:37:00,079
that made him become a violent
and incestuous father?
809
00:37:00,183 --> 00:37:02,220
-Young Bill Letts
was an only child.
810
00:37:02,323 --> 00:37:04,187
His mother was
a local district nurse.
811
00:37:04,291 --> 00:37:07,742
She was very revered
in the community.
812
00:37:07,846 --> 00:37:09,157
His father came back
813
00:37:09,261 --> 00:37:11,332
from fighting
in the First World War.
814
00:37:11,436 --> 00:37:13,058
When Bill came along,
815
00:37:13,161 --> 00:37:16,441
his father was not
particularly happy about it.
816
00:37:16,544 --> 00:37:18,270
His father didn't want him
817
00:37:18,374 --> 00:37:20,445
and told him
that he wasn't wanted,
818
00:37:20,548 --> 00:37:22,240
that he was a mistake,
819
00:37:22,343 --> 00:37:25,657
which was an awful thing
to say to a young boy.
820
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,452
-Bill Letts' mother, Bertha,
821
00:37:27,555 --> 00:37:31,076
overcompensated for the neglect
by his father, William,
822
00:37:31,179 --> 00:37:34,528
so Bill was mollycoddled
to the extreme.
823
00:37:34,631 --> 00:37:36,564
-My mum went to school
with Bill Letts.
824
00:37:36,668 --> 00:37:38,428
His mother used to bring him
to school,
825
00:37:38,532 --> 00:37:40,465
be there to meet him,
take him home.
826
00:37:40,568 --> 00:37:43,468
-His mother would always
accompany him to school
827
00:37:43,571 --> 00:37:47,437
and brush his hair as soon
as she took his cap off.
828
00:37:47,541 --> 00:37:50,233
-I mean, he must've been
about 11,
829
00:37:50,337 --> 00:37:53,823
not, like, a little three-,
four-year-old, you know?
830
00:37:53,926 --> 00:37:57,275
-Because of Bertha's
mollycoddling of her son,
831
00:37:57,378 --> 00:38:00,830
he really had very few,
if any, friends at all,
832
00:38:00,933 --> 00:38:03,142
so he was very isolated.
833
00:38:03,246 --> 00:38:07,354
We see aspects of that again
in Rose's childhood.
834
00:38:07,457 --> 00:38:11,289
-He was another one that
he wasn't allowed out, either.
835
00:38:11,392 --> 00:38:14,740
And he was very quiet
at school, as well,
836
00:38:14,844 --> 00:38:16,673
much like his own children were.
837
00:38:16,777 --> 00:38:19,711
-I think it's a perfectly
fair assumption to say
838
00:38:19,814 --> 00:38:25,303
that Bill Letts, as a child,
was intimidated a good deal
839
00:38:25,406 --> 00:38:27,201
and I think he responded
to that intimidation --
840
00:38:27,305 --> 00:38:28,616
bullying, if you like --
841
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,825
by responding
with equal violence himself,
842
00:38:30,929 --> 00:38:32,137
as soon as he became an adult.
843
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,692
-There were strong rumors
in the community.
844
00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:37,349
Parents told their children
to keep away
845
00:38:37,453 --> 00:38:39,178
from old William Letts
846
00:38:39,282 --> 00:38:42,492
because he couldn't be
trusted near children.
847
00:38:42,596 --> 00:38:46,841
So, whether Bill was abused
or not, we don't know,
848
00:38:46,945 --> 00:38:49,603
but, of course,
there is a chance, you know.
849
00:38:49,706 --> 00:38:51,018
-Bill's father, William,
850
00:38:51,121 --> 00:38:53,710
was known to have
an extremely high sex drive,
851
00:38:53,814 --> 00:38:56,023
something that would
span generations,
852
00:38:56,126 --> 00:39:01,304
as both Bill and Rose inherited
an insatiable appetite for sex.
853
00:39:01,408 --> 00:39:02,857
-Well, he certainly was
a strange man.
854
00:39:02,961 --> 00:39:05,066
I never liked the look
of him, anyway.
855
00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:06,585
I think my mum called him
a gigolo.
856
00:39:06,689 --> 00:39:08,863
Whatever that might mean,
I don't know.
857
00:39:08,967 --> 00:39:10,278
-Rather than having a job,
858
00:39:10,382 --> 00:39:12,764
he seemed to flit round
from woman to woman,
859
00:39:12,867 --> 00:39:16,802
like as a butler-cum-gigolo.
860
00:39:16,906 --> 00:39:18,770
-It was not only
a high sex drive
861
00:39:18,873 --> 00:39:21,531
that Bill and Rose
inherited from William.
862
00:39:21,635 --> 00:39:24,465
They would also inherit
an obsession for cleaning.
863
00:39:24,569 --> 00:39:27,813
-William Letts was absolutely
obsessed with cleanliness,
864
00:39:27,917 --> 00:39:30,264
bleaching the house
top to bottom,
865
00:39:30,368 --> 00:39:34,233
nothing could be out of place,
and Bill had to follow suit.
866
00:39:34,337 --> 00:39:36,684
And then, unfortunately,
867
00:39:36,788 --> 00:39:39,515
Bill did follow suit,
to the Nth degree,
868
00:39:39,618 --> 00:39:43,035
and that would carry on
into his marriage.
869
00:39:43,139 --> 00:39:46,418
-In 1942, Bill married Daisy.
870
00:39:46,522 --> 00:39:49,732
A year later, they moved
into their new council home,
871
00:39:49,835 --> 00:39:52,838
on Morwenna Park Road
in Northam, Devon.
872
00:39:52,942 --> 00:39:55,979
Bill and Daisy would go on
to have seven children,
873
00:39:56,083 --> 00:39:58,672
Rose being the fifth to arrive.
874
00:39:58,775 --> 00:40:01,364
But Bill was hiding
a secret diagnosis
875
00:40:01,468 --> 00:40:05,886
that would cause
his paranoia to intensify.
876
00:40:05,989 --> 00:40:10,546
-Bill was said to have
severe psychotic episodes.
877
00:40:10,649 --> 00:40:15,516
He had been diagnosed
as a paranoid schizophrenic
878
00:40:15,620 --> 00:40:17,587
when he was a teenager
879
00:40:17,691 --> 00:40:22,109
and that had never been
disclosed to the family
880
00:40:22,212 --> 00:40:24,422
and he remained untreated.
881
00:40:24,525 --> 00:40:26,216
He would think people
were talking about him
882
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,943
and have a go at his wife
all the time.
883
00:40:29,047 --> 00:40:30,393
If she was even talking
to the neighbors,
884
00:40:30,497 --> 00:40:32,153
he would hit her
and pull her in.
885
00:40:32,257 --> 00:40:35,812
The police were called.
Nothing happened.
886
00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:39,678
He seemed to be very OCD,
as well --
887
00:40:39,782 --> 00:40:42,647
always on at his wife,
always on at the children,
888
00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:44,442
"Keep the place clean,"
you know?
889
00:40:44,545 --> 00:40:48,756
And he would come home
and shout and thrash them.
890
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:51,000
-In fear of violence from Bill,
891
00:40:51,103 --> 00:40:53,140
Daisy would also develop
an obsession
892
00:40:53,243 --> 00:40:55,383
for keeping everything clean.
893
00:40:55,487 --> 00:40:58,317
-Cleanliness, that was
the main thing with her.
894
00:40:58,421 --> 00:41:00,596
She used to scrub, scrub, scrub.
895
00:41:00,699 --> 00:41:03,253
The backyard, you know,
she'd be out there
896
00:41:03,357 --> 00:41:07,223
scrubbing that
with a hosepipe and bleach.
897
00:41:07,326 --> 00:41:09,708
-Daisy's obsession
became so intense
898
00:41:09,812 --> 00:41:11,434
that the children
were not allowed out,
899
00:41:11,538 --> 00:41:13,712
in case they came home dirty.
900
00:41:13,816 --> 00:41:15,231
But, on one occasion,
901
00:41:15,334 --> 00:41:19,269
Rose's older sister decided
to go out to play.
902
00:41:19,373 --> 00:41:22,376
-Rose's oldest sister
was a little bit rebellious
903
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,758
and I recall one time
when we took her out
904
00:41:24,861 --> 00:41:26,207
for the afternoon,
905
00:41:26,311 --> 00:41:29,141
go swimming
and ride the horses out there
906
00:41:29,245 --> 00:41:31,419
and, I mean, we used
to get filthy out there,
907
00:41:31,523 --> 00:41:33,939
really, rolling around.
908
00:41:34,043 --> 00:41:36,666
She really got so excited,
she was almost manic.
909
00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:39,876
She'd laugh and giggle
and prance around.
910
00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:44,087
-But this rare, fun-filled day
would come at a price.
911
00:41:44,191 --> 00:41:46,434
-When she got home,
stinking of horses,
912
00:41:46,538 --> 00:41:49,610
that's when she got
this hell of a beating.
913
00:41:49,714 --> 00:41:51,854
Daisy was hosing her down
in the garden.
914
00:41:51,957 --> 00:41:53,649
She was screaming and screaming,
915
00:41:53,752 --> 00:41:55,858
stripped naked,
being hosed down
916
00:41:55,961 --> 00:41:58,239
with cold water, obviously.
917
00:41:58,343 --> 00:42:02,312
Oh, it was awful to hear.
918
00:42:02,416 --> 00:42:04,522
And that's when
my mother intervened
919
00:42:04,625 --> 00:42:06,800
and then she took her in.
920
00:42:06,903 --> 00:42:09,354
My mum, she really went onto me.
921
00:42:09,457 --> 00:42:11,494
She said,
"Don't ever take her out again
922
00:42:11,598 --> 00:42:13,772
because you've caused
that girl to have a hiding.
923
00:42:13,876 --> 00:42:16,464
She gets enough of that,
anyway."
924
00:42:16,568 --> 00:42:19,847
-Yes, Daisy did shout
and hit the children, as well,
925
00:42:19,951 --> 00:42:24,645
but I think she was trying very
hard to keep everything tidy,
926
00:42:24,749 --> 00:42:27,337
just so,
and bleaching everything
927
00:42:27,441 --> 00:42:29,270
so that he wouldn't come home
928
00:42:29,374 --> 00:42:32,411
and have one of these terrible
rages where he would hit them.
929
00:42:32,515 --> 00:42:34,413
He would do things
like spoil the food
930
00:42:34,517 --> 00:42:37,934
and tip the dustbin out
all across the kitchen.
931
00:42:38,038 --> 00:42:42,352
So the woman had a very,
very hard time with him.
932
00:42:42,456 --> 00:42:47,668
-He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,
933
00:42:47,772 --> 00:42:50,844
terrified his wife, Daisy.
934
00:42:50,947 --> 00:42:53,467
That awful,
worst kind of bully --
935
00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:54,951
a coward, at one moment;
936
00:42:55,055 --> 00:42:58,403
and then, vicious to those
who couldn't fight back.
937
00:42:58,506 --> 00:42:59,784
♪♪
938
00:42:59,887 --> 00:43:03,097
-Bill would put on this
very pleasant face
939
00:43:03,201 --> 00:43:05,065
to most of the neighbors.
940
00:43:05,168 --> 00:43:06,549
He was very charming.
941
00:43:06,653 --> 00:43:08,758
So, of course,
people won't believe that.
942
00:43:08,862 --> 00:43:13,798
So he has this kind of
friendly street angel;
943
00:43:13,901 --> 00:43:16,214
and then, he's this
house devil face.
944
00:43:16,317 --> 00:43:18,043
[Static crackles]
♪♪
945
00:43:18,147 --> 00:43:20,425
-And, just like her father,
946
00:43:20,528 --> 00:43:23,324
Rose developed an appetite
for coercive control
947
00:43:23,428 --> 00:43:25,050
when she ventured
into adulthood.
948
00:43:25,154 --> 00:43:27,639
♪♪
949
00:43:27,743 --> 00:43:30,435
Fred and Rose would drive
around Gloucestershire,
950
00:43:30,538 --> 00:43:35,095
searching for girls to lure back
to 25 Cromwell Street.
951
00:43:35,198 --> 00:43:37,960
They would get a babysitter in
and they would go out.
952
00:43:38,063 --> 00:43:41,688
They pick up Caroline Owens,
who's hitchhiking home
953
00:43:41,791 --> 00:43:43,344
and lives in the Forest of Dean.
954
00:43:43,448 --> 00:43:45,036
Rose is sitting there.
955
00:43:45,139 --> 00:43:48,626
She has a baby, she's pregnant,
956
00:43:48,729 --> 00:43:51,387
and she's grooming this girlie,
957
00:43:51,490 --> 00:43:54,045
like enticing her
to get into the car,
958
00:43:54,148 --> 00:43:56,012
speaking in this lovely voice.
959
00:43:56,116 --> 00:43:57,635
And also sitting there
with a baby,
960
00:43:57,738 --> 00:44:00,499
which they both know
is going to make any young girl
961
00:44:00,603 --> 00:44:03,226
feel quite sort of safe
with them.
962
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:05,953
I think both of them,
they're psychopaths
963
00:44:06,057 --> 00:44:07,955
and they know how to charm,
964
00:44:08,059 --> 00:44:11,890
so they can present
so well to people.
965
00:44:11,994 --> 00:44:14,617
So, of course, Caroline gets in.
966
00:44:14,721 --> 00:44:17,240
-The couple charm
and coerce Caroline
967
00:44:17,344 --> 00:44:21,210
into coming to live with them
as their in-house nanny.
968
00:44:21,313 --> 00:44:26,318
But it's soon clear Rose
has an alternative agenda.
969
00:44:26,422 --> 00:44:29,770
-And they start their
sadistical games with her.
970
00:44:29,874 --> 00:44:31,461
-They started to get heavy
with her.
971
00:44:31,565 --> 00:44:33,636
I think they would barge
into the bathroom
972
00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:35,327
when she was in the bathroom.
973
00:44:35,431 --> 00:44:37,088
She felt uncomfortable
with them.
974
00:44:37,191 --> 00:44:40,781
They're both trying to invite
her in to have sex with them.
975
00:44:40,885 --> 00:44:41,782
-Rose didn't stop.
976
00:44:41,886 --> 00:44:43,439
She wanted to kiss her,
977
00:44:43,542 --> 00:44:45,096
Fred was egging them on,
978
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:47,961
so she got her stuff and went.
979
00:44:48,064 --> 00:44:50,273
-Caroline managed to escape.
980
00:44:50,377 --> 00:44:52,828
But it was short-lived.
981
00:44:52,931 --> 00:44:55,382
-And then, they again coaxed her
982
00:44:55,485 --> 00:44:58,040
when she was hitchhiking
on a later occasion.
983
00:44:58,143 --> 00:44:59,662
They got her in the car,
beat her.
984
00:44:59,766 --> 00:45:03,597
Fred had punched her
and quietened her,
985
00:45:03,701 --> 00:45:07,049
so that Rose could do
what she wanted with her.
986
00:45:07,152 --> 00:45:10,846
-Rose scratched and brutalized
her in the back of the car.
987
00:45:10,949 --> 00:45:13,918
When she got back
to Cromwell Street,
988
00:45:14,021 --> 00:45:19,233
this time, it was a brutal
and tortuous regime.
989
00:45:19,337 --> 00:45:21,339
She was being held there
and beaten
990
00:45:21,442 --> 00:45:23,030
and she feared for her life.
991
00:45:23,134 --> 00:45:24,825
-Fred was actually
restraining her,
992
00:45:24,929 --> 00:45:27,414
keeping her there for Rose.
993
00:45:27,517 --> 00:45:31,832
He said he kidnapped her
for Rose.
994
00:45:31,936 --> 00:45:35,042
-Fred's behavior was sadism
995
00:45:35,146 --> 00:45:39,253
and advising her that
he was going to beat her
996
00:45:39,357 --> 00:45:43,741
and then, he meekly asserted
that he would have sex with her,
997
00:45:43,844 --> 00:45:46,053
but she mustn't tell Rose.
998
00:45:46,157 --> 00:45:48,746
Eventually, Caroline Owens
was able to escape
999
00:45:48,849 --> 00:45:50,713
and, as a result of that,
1000
00:45:50,817 --> 00:45:53,164
her parents reported
the matter to the police.
1001
00:45:53,267 --> 00:45:56,926
♪♪
1002
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:59,929
-They were taken to court
and Fred put his suit on,
1003
00:46:00,033 --> 00:46:03,830
presented well, they thought
he looked a reasonable chap.
1004
00:46:03,933 --> 00:46:06,246
And Rose was like
heavily pregnant
1005
00:46:06,349 --> 00:46:09,042
and telling them
that she was going to
1006
00:46:09,145 --> 00:46:13,701
have some kind of therapy
for her, you know, ways.
1007
00:46:13,805 --> 00:46:15,117
And the charges were reduced
1008
00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:18,292
because Caroline couldn't
face them in court.
1009
00:46:18,396 --> 00:46:22,055
-A charge of rape was proffered,
1010
00:46:22,158 --> 00:46:25,783
but it was plea-bargained
down to a sexual assault
1011
00:46:25,886 --> 00:46:27,439
in a magistrates court.
1012
00:46:27,543 --> 00:46:31,512
They were both fined £25
and had a rap on the knuckles.
1013
00:46:31,616 --> 00:46:32,790
I think their solicitor said,
1014
00:46:32,893 --> 00:46:34,515
"Well, you know,
they're a young couple.
1015
00:46:34,619 --> 00:46:36,069
They won't do it again,"
1016
00:46:36,172 --> 00:46:38,450
and, extraordinarily,
the magistrates bought that.
1017
00:46:38,554 --> 00:46:40,694
-And the interesting thing
is that neither of them
1018
00:46:40,798 --> 00:46:43,801
were embarrassed about that,
either, particularly Rose,
1019
00:46:43,904 --> 00:46:46,527
because she was
a complete narcissist.
1020
00:46:46,631 --> 00:46:48,633
It meant nothing to her.
1021
00:46:48,736 --> 00:46:50,877
-It was a kind of abandonment,
you know.
1022
00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:54,397
Somehow, they were getting
away with it.
1023
00:46:54,501 --> 00:46:55,709
-They were given carte blanche,
1024
00:46:55,813 --> 00:46:58,470
so, the next time,
they were going to kill.
1025
00:46:58,574 --> 00:47:00,956
Nobody is going to escape them,
the next time,
1026
00:47:01,059 --> 00:47:02,371
to live to tell the tale.
1027
00:47:02,474 --> 00:47:04,442
♪♪
1028
00:47:04,545 --> 00:47:07,963
-With zero respect for the law,
Fred and Rose continued
1029
00:47:08,066 --> 00:47:10,551
using the same method
of driving around,
1030
00:47:10,655 --> 00:47:12,864
pursuing young,
vulnerable women,
1031
00:47:12,968 --> 00:47:17,110
often calling on their lodger
Jayne to babysit for them.
1032
00:47:17,213 --> 00:47:18,456
-Looking after the younger ones,
1033
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:21,459
I formed quite
a friendship with them.
1034
00:47:21,562 --> 00:47:23,737
They were dear little things.
1035
00:47:23,841 --> 00:47:27,258
It upsets me to think that I was
looking after their children
1036
00:47:27,361 --> 00:47:30,986
for them to be evil people.
1037
00:47:31,089 --> 00:47:33,540
-Using the same ruse
of needing a nanny,
1038
00:47:33,643 --> 00:47:35,922
they lured 19-year-old
Lynda Gough back
1039
00:47:36,025 --> 00:47:39,787
to their cellar
in Cromwell Street.
1040
00:47:39,891 --> 00:47:43,791
-They trussed her up
and killed her.
1041
00:47:43,895 --> 00:47:46,864
It was a horrendous murder.
1042
00:47:46,967 --> 00:47:51,489
And she was buried outside
by the bathroom area.
1043
00:47:51,592 --> 00:47:54,319
♪♪
1044
00:47:54,423 --> 00:47:56,114
Rose immediately went
through her clothes
1045
00:47:56,218 --> 00:47:57,529
and put her clothes on.
1046
00:47:57,633 --> 00:48:01,775
She could just go
and kill this girl with Fred
1047
00:48:01,879 --> 00:48:05,675
and go and put
the girl's clothes on.
1048
00:48:05,779 --> 00:48:07,919
-When Lynda's mother
came looking for her,
1049
00:48:08,023 --> 00:48:11,819
she witnessed Rose's
narcissism firsthand.
1050
00:48:11,923 --> 00:48:15,064
-Lynda Gough's mother came
to find her daughter
1051
00:48:15,168 --> 00:48:19,241
and saw some of her clothes
blowing in the wind on the line
1052
00:48:19,344 --> 00:48:22,589
and Rose in her slippers
and cardigan.
1053
00:48:22,692 --> 00:48:24,246
And she was just,
"Oh, I never heard of her."
1054
00:48:24,349 --> 00:48:27,076
Well, of course she had,
you know.
1055
00:48:27,180 --> 00:48:29,285
The mother knew she was lying.
1056
00:48:29,389 --> 00:48:32,357
-It was, in fact,
her lack of empathy
1057
00:48:32,461 --> 00:48:35,153
and her association
with Fred West
1058
00:48:35,257 --> 00:48:37,293
that led her to be a killer.
1059
00:48:37,397 --> 00:48:41,194
♪♪
1060
00:48:41,297 --> 00:48:42,609
-Within months
of killing Lynda Gough,
1061
00:48:42,712 --> 00:48:44,576
Fred and Rose struck again.
1062
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,751
♪♪
1063
00:48:46,854 --> 00:48:50,341
This time, they abducted
15-year-old Carol Ann Cooper.
1064
00:48:50,444 --> 00:48:53,240
♪♪
1065
00:48:53,344 --> 00:48:56,105
-She'd been having a night out
with her boyfriend
1066
00:48:56,209 --> 00:49:01,835
and they followed her
in the car,
1067
00:49:01,939 --> 00:49:04,907
picked her up
when she got off the bus,
1068
00:49:05,011 --> 00:49:09,222
took her back,
and it was a horrendous murder.
1069
00:49:09,325 --> 00:49:11,672
♪♪
1070
00:49:11,776 --> 00:49:15,366
-Over a frenzied period
spanning less than two years,
1071
00:49:15,469 --> 00:49:19,611
six young females had been lured
to 25 Cromwell Street,
1072
00:49:19,715 --> 00:49:22,166
where they were tortured,
murdered,
1073
00:49:22,269 --> 00:49:24,996
and buried
beneath the family home.
1074
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:28,068
-I think they were totally
out of control.
1075
00:49:28,172 --> 00:49:31,520
They became more and more so
as they got away with it.
1076
00:49:31,623 --> 00:49:35,489
-This is fairly normal
for serial killers
1077
00:49:35,593 --> 00:49:37,698
who get a lot of pleasure
1078
00:49:37,802 --> 00:49:40,701
from protracted torture
and killing of others,
1079
00:49:40,805 --> 00:49:45,948
in that the next one has
to be more.
1080
00:49:46,052 --> 00:49:49,124
-She was bound up with duct tape
and left her eyes,
1081
00:49:49,227 --> 00:49:52,127
so that she could see what
they were going to do to her.
1082
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:53,404
[Static crackles]
♪♪
1083
00:49:53,507 --> 00:49:54,992
-The more macabre nature
1084
00:49:55,095 --> 00:49:57,787
of this torture
got progressively worse,
1085
00:49:57,891 --> 00:49:59,755
with one killing
following another.
1086
00:49:59,858 --> 00:50:01,308
[Static crackles]
♪♪
1087
00:50:01,412 --> 00:50:05,899
-Mummified and a straw was poked
through, up her nose,
1088
00:50:06,003 --> 00:50:08,626
so that they could keep
this young girl alive
1089
00:50:08,729 --> 00:50:10,110
while they tortured her.
1090
00:50:10,214 --> 00:50:14,011
-Extreme bondage,
metal tubes, binding,
1091
00:50:14,114 --> 00:50:18,498
hanging people from the ceiling,
like pieces of meat.
1092
00:50:18,601 --> 00:50:23,641
More sadism, more paraphernalia,
more suffering.
1093
00:50:23,744 --> 00:50:27,438
-Rose was known to use
very large vibrators on them,
1094
00:50:27,541 --> 00:50:32,063
you know, so huge that they
did massive damage.
1095
00:50:32,167 --> 00:50:35,791
-It got worse and worse
and worse.
1096
00:50:35,894 --> 00:50:38,000
-Anyone who saw any
of the pictures
1097
00:50:38,104 --> 00:50:40,451
of what happened
to those girls --
1098
00:50:40,554 --> 00:50:43,316
you know, the missing bones,
the kneecaps removed,
1099
00:50:43,419 --> 00:50:48,666
the hanging in the cellar,
the awful bindings with --
1100
00:50:48,769 --> 00:50:54,292
it just sends a shudder
down my spine, to this day.
1101
00:50:54,396 --> 00:50:56,329
-Rose was very, very cruel.
1102
00:50:56,432 --> 00:50:58,400
She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.
1103
00:50:58,503 --> 00:51:01,196
It was something in her.
1104
00:51:01,299 --> 00:51:03,577
It's almost like killing
a version of herself.
1105
00:51:03,681 --> 00:51:08,789
♪♪
1106
00:51:08,893 --> 00:51:12,793
-This may have been her way
of eradicating her past,
1107
00:51:12,897 --> 00:51:17,626
getting rid of all those
thoughts and vulnerabilities
1108
00:51:17,729 --> 00:51:20,491
that she had felt
from her early childhood.
1109
00:51:20,594 --> 00:51:21,526
-She had no power.
1110
00:51:21,630 --> 00:51:23,804
She was oppressed, as she said.
1111
00:51:23,908 --> 00:51:29,224
It was her way of taking out her
revenge on these young girls.
1112
00:51:29,327 --> 00:51:30,673
And she was so cruel.
1113
00:51:30,777 --> 00:51:32,917
[Static crackles]
♪♪
1114
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:34,781
-And Rose would not have
to search far
1115
00:51:34,884 --> 00:51:36,334
for the next victim --
1116
00:51:36,438 --> 00:51:37,853
Shirley Robinson,
1117
00:51:37,956 --> 00:51:41,408
one of the Wests' lodgers
at 25 Cromwell Street.
1118
00:51:41,512 --> 00:51:43,272
-I made a very good friend
out of Shirley.
1119
00:51:43,376 --> 00:51:46,931
We'd cook a Pot Noodle together
and sit and talk for ages.
1120
00:51:47,034 --> 00:51:49,761
Her and Rose very much looked
like each other, so, sometimes,
1121
00:51:49,865 --> 00:51:51,522
I'd go into the kitchen,
take a quick look,
1122
00:51:51,625 --> 00:51:53,558
because Shirley would very often
be down in the kitchen.
1123
00:51:53,662 --> 00:51:55,836
I'd say, "Hi, Rose.
1124
00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:58,011
Oh, sorry, Shirley.
It's you."
1125
00:51:58,115 --> 00:52:02,015
-It was not only looks that
Shirley and Rose had in common.
1126
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:03,568
I didn't realize that Shirley
1127
00:52:03,672 --> 00:52:05,156
was having a relationship
with Fred.
1128
00:52:05,260 --> 00:52:07,262
I found out at the end
that she'd got pregnant by Fred,
1129
00:52:07,365 --> 00:52:10,023
so I thought it was just one
of those things that happened.
1130
00:52:10,127 --> 00:52:13,233
As her and Rose were
so friendly, I didn't like
1131
00:52:13,337 --> 00:52:15,304
put the two and two together
because, obviously,
1132
00:52:15,408 --> 00:52:17,617
if Rose was having men in,
1133
00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:19,653
what's Fred doing
to other women? [Laughs]
1134
00:52:19,757 --> 00:52:22,035
[Static crackles]
-Today, Royale Robinson,
1135
00:52:22,139 --> 00:52:24,865
whose daughter Shirley Ann
was found in the garden,
1136
00:52:24,969 --> 00:52:27,247
along with her unborn child.
1137
00:52:27,351 --> 00:52:31,044
She was killed
by Frederick and Rosemary West.
1138
00:52:31,148 --> 00:52:33,805
-I just thought,
"Maybe she's not able
1139
00:52:33,909 --> 00:52:35,152
to live in one room
with the baby,
1140
00:52:35,255 --> 00:52:38,534
so she's moved on
and found somewhere else."
1141
00:52:38,638 --> 00:52:40,847
-Shirley's remains were buried
in the garden,
1142
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:44,471
alongside her
and Fred's unborn baby.
1143
00:52:44,575 --> 00:52:47,267
-To be told that Shirley
had left, Shirley had gone,
1144
00:52:47,371 --> 00:52:51,029
none of it, none of this,
made any sense, whatsoever.
1145
00:52:51,133 --> 00:52:54,343
-Jayne had no idea she was
living in the same house
1146
00:52:54,447 --> 00:52:57,657
with two sadistic
serial killers.
1147
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:58,899
-Fred was just --
1148
00:52:59,003 --> 00:53:00,142
He was a gentleman.
1149
00:53:00,246 --> 00:53:02,040
He was very pleasant,
very polite.
1150
00:53:02,144 --> 00:53:03,697
He was constantly working
in the house.
1151
00:53:03,801 --> 00:53:05,458
Slap of paint here,
a bit of work there,
1152
00:53:05,561 --> 00:53:06,942
a bit of digging in the garden.
1153
00:53:07,045 --> 00:53:08,633
He was always there,
very early in the morning,
1154
00:53:08,737 --> 00:53:10,290
before everybody else.
1155
00:53:10,394 --> 00:53:13,328
Rose was generally
not a morning person.
1156
00:53:13,431 --> 00:53:14,881
She used to walk around
with her cardigan
1157
00:53:14,984 --> 00:53:16,676
and her trainer socks
and skirt on,
1158
00:53:16,779 --> 00:53:18,609
barking at the children --
not speaking to them,
1159
00:53:18,712 --> 00:53:20,197
barking orders at them.
1160
00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:21,612
Anne Marie was scorned upon --
1161
00:53:21,715 --> 00:53:23,372
"You're not getting breakfast
fast enough.
1162
00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:25,098
You can't give them toast
without giving them a drink,
1163
00:53:25,202 --> 00:53:28,550
you stupid --" so,
very demeaning to the children.
1164
00:53:28,653 --> 00:53:30,931
Rose was definitely in charge
in the West household.
1165
00:53:31,035 --> 00:53:33,520
There was no denying that.
[Laughs]
1166
00:53:33,624 --> 00:53:35,142
-Of all the West children,
1167
00:53:35,246 --> 00:53:37,524
it was Rose's eldest daughter,
Heather,
1168
00:53:37,628 --> 00:53:39,492
who left a lasting impression.
1169
00:53:39,595 --> 00:53:42,702
-Heather, quite
a switched-on little girl.
1170
00:53:42,805 --> 00:53:44,600
We'd sit and talk
about silly little things,
1171
00:53:44,704 --> 00:53:47,327
you know, hair and,
"Will you wear makeup later on
1172
00:53:47,431 --> 00:53:48,777
and what do you want to do
as a job?"
1173
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,917
So she was just
an inquisitive little body.
1174
00:53:51,020 --> 00:53:53,022
♪♪
1175
00:53:53,126 --> 00:53:55,439
-But, one evening,
Jayne was woken up
1176
00:53:55,542 --> 00:53:58,890
by something that would
change her life forever.
1177
00:53:58,994 --> 00:54:00,892
-Something disturbed me.
1178
00:54:00,996 --> 00:54:03,412
And, initially, I couldn't
quite make out what it was
1179
00:54:03,516 --> 00:54:06,450
and then, I realized
it was in the cellar.
1180
00:54:06,553 --> 00:54:08,452
I could hear Heather screaming,
"Stop it, Daddy!
1181
00:54:08,555 --> 00:54:09,763
Stop it, Daddy!"
1182
00:54:09,867 --> 00:54:10,799
And then, it seemed to stop
1183
00:54:10,902 --> 00:54:12,145
and then, it would happen again.
1184
00:54:12,249 --> 00:54:13,974
And this happened
for a few nights in a row.
1185
00:54:14,078 --> 00:54:16,391
[Static crackles]
[Rotors whirring]
1186
00:54:16,494 --> 00:54:19,394
-A specialist search team
arrived at Cromwell Street
1187
00:54:19,497 --> 00:54:22,949
with a warrant to search
for Heather West.
1188
00:54:23,052 --> 00:54:26,021
-I put the news on and the
first thing I saw was Heather.
1189
00:54:26,124 --> 00:54:28,057
I thought, "Oh, my gosh!
1190
00:54:28,161 --> 00:54:30,094
Heather's been killed."
1191
00:54:30,197 --> 00:54:32,579
[Static crackles]
In 1992,
1192
00:54:32,683 --> 00:54:34,857
15 years after Jayne left,
1193
00:54:34,961 --> 00:54:36,997
one of the children reported
to police
1194
00:54:37,101 --> 00:54:38,861
they'd been raped by Fred.
1195
00:54:38,965 --> 00:54:41,692
Five of the West children
were taken into care
1196
00:54:41,795 --> 00:54:43,935
whilst police investigated.
1197
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:45,109
The following year,
1198
00:54:45,212 --> 00:54:46,800
social workers reported
1199
00:54:46,904 --> 00:54:49,976
that the West children had
claimed that Fred often joked
1200
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:52,910
that Heather was buried
beneath the patio.
1201
00:54:53,013 --> 00:54:54,532
In 1994,
1202
00:54:54,636 --> 00:54:57,086
whilst investigating
Heather's whereabouts,
1203
00:54:57,190 --> 00:55:00,814
police obtained a search warrant
for 25 Cromwell Street
1204
00:55:00,918 --> 00:55:02,299
and, as Fred was led away,
1205
00:55:02,402 --> 00:55:04,370
he confessed
to Heather's murder.
1206
00:55:04,473 --> 00:55:07,027
-The back garden
of 25 Cromwell Street.
1207
00:55:07,131 --> 00:55:10,237
He'd never told his wife
what he'd done.
1208
00:55:10,341 --> 00:55:13,862
-When I saw Rose
at Cheltenham Police Station,
1209
00:55:13,965 --> 00:55:17,072
she was really very, very upset
1210
00:55:17,175 --> 00:55:18,867
and it was almost a mantra that,
1211
00:55:18,970 --> 00:55:21,939
"It was that flipping
Fred West, you know.
1212
00:55:22,042 --> 00:55:25,183
What had he effing been doing?"
1213
00:55:25,287 --> 00:55:27,841
-The first time I ever heard
Frederick West describing
1214
00:55:27,945 --> 00:55:32,536
how he dismembered
his daughter, Heather,
1215
00:55:32,639 --> 00:55:35,470
and stuck her in a sack,
bin bags --
1216
00:55:35,573 --> 00:55:37,472
"I couldn't get her
in the dustbin, so I thought,
1217
00:55:37,575 --> 00:55:39,232
'I'll cut her legs off.'"
1218
00:55:39,336 --> 00:55:41,234
Then, he cuts her head off.
1219
00:55:41,338 --> 00:55:43,132
It's unimaginable.
1220
00:55:43,236 --> 00:55:45,963
♪♪
1221
00:55:46,066 --> 00:55:48,137
-Officers who found
Heather's remains
1222
00:55:48,241 --> 00:55:51,140
found signs
that she was not alone.
1223
00:55:51,244 --> 00:55:52,866
-When this story happened,
1224
00:55:52,970 --> 00:55:56,180
it was a huge shock
to the people of Gloucester.
1225
00:55:56,283 --> 00:55:58,285
The whole thing became a bit
of a circus, really,
1226
00:55:58,389 --> 00:56:01,254
as far as the press
and media interest.
1227
00:56:01,358 --> 00:56:04,015
It was moving so quickly,
there was so much happening,
1228
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:05,362
there were so many developments,
1229
00:56:05,465 --> 00:56:07,122
in terms of bodies being found.
1230
00:56:07,225 --> 00:56:10,367
-West had hinted that there were
further bodies to be discovered.
1231
00:56:10,470 --> 00:56:13,024
He led detectives
down to the cellar,
1232
00:56:13,128 --> 00:56:15,406
indicating where
other victims were hidden.
1233
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:17,097
-Human remains found
in the cellar
1234
00:56:17,201 --> 00:56:19,893
are carried away
for forensic examination.
1235
00:56:19,997 --> 00:56:22,551
-Despite Fred
claiming all responsibility
1236
00:56:22,655 --> 00:56:25,036
and confessing
where the victims were buried,
1237
00:56:25,140 --> 00:56:26,831
police had sufficient evidence
1238
00:56:26,935 --> 00:56:29,420
to arrest Rose
on suspicion of murder.
1239
00:56:29,524 --> 00:56:31,146
-When I visited Rose,
1240
00:56:31,249 --> 00:56:35,668
she was relaxed
and not kind of dumbstruck.
1241
00:56:35,771 --> 00:56:39,223
She did seem slightly removed
from it all.
1242
00:56:39,326 --> 00:56:41,190
-She just --
It's blocked out.
1243
00:56:41,294 --> 00:56:44,504
As her mother used to say, "She
held herself in as a child,"
1244
00:56:44,608 --> 00:56:47,645
and maybe that's
what she's doing.
1245
00:56:47,749 --> 00:56:49,544
-That probably speaks volumes
1246
00:56:49,647 --> 00:56:54,169
about this curious dichotomy
in Rose's makeup.
1247
00:56:54,272 --> 00:57:01,625
You'd expect it would prompt
some strong need to unload,
1248
00:57:01,728 --> 00:57:03,627
but there was none of that.
1249
00:57:03,730 --> 00:57:06,871
-The Crown Prosecution Service
collated enough evidence
1250
00:57:06,975 --> 00:57:09,633
to charge Rose
with ten counts of murder.
1251
00:57:09,736 --> 00:57:10,944
[Static crackles]
-Frederick West,
1252
00:57:11,048 --> 00:57:12,532
the builder accused
of mass murder,
1253
00:57:12,636 --> 00:57:15,501
just minutes away from a reunion
with his wife, Rosemary,
1254
00:57:15,604 --> 00:57:18,055
is driven into Gloucester
Magistrates Court.
1255
00:57:18,158 --> 00:57:19,470
-We saw Fred and Rose
brought up,
1256
00:57:19,574 --> 00:57:20,885
one by one, into the dock
1257
00:57:20,989 --> 00:57:22,611
and we were quite surprised
to see
1258
00:57:22,715 --> 00:57:27,616
just a very ordinary-looking,
plumpish, middle-aged woman.
1259
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,931
She didn't appear to be upset,
disturbed, angry, indignant.
1260
00:57:32,034 --> 00:57:35,348
There was no real emotion
that I can recall.
1261
00:57:35,452 --> 00:57:39,110
-The clear instructions were
that she said she was innocent.
1262
00:57:39,214 --> 00:57:41,043
If there was anything
had happened,
1263
00:57:41,147 --> 00:57:44,046
it was because of Fred.
1264
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:46,048
-And the whole time
that they sat in that court,
1265
00:57:46,152 --> 00:57:48,257
they deliberately were not
looking at each other,
1266
00:57:48,361 --> 00:57:49,880
not talking to each other.
1267
00:57:49,983 --> 00:57:52,607
Had they fallen out?
Was this a ruse, on their part?
1268
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:54,125
-They probably did
discuss the fact
1269
00:57:54,229 --> 00:57:55,644
about Fred taking the blame
1270
00:57:55,748 --> 00:57:57,543
and she would walk away from it.
1271
00:57:57,646 --> 00:58:00,442
She disowned him
in the witness box.
1272
00:58:00,546 --> 00:58:02,582
-She just dropped him, end of.
1273
00:58:02,686 --> 00:58:05,551
Freddie forever --
that was over forever.
1274
00:58:05,654 --> 00:58:08,312
She wanted no more
to do with him.
1275
00:58:08,415 --> 00:58:10,970
-There were clear signs
that she was saying,
1276
00:58:11,073 --> 00:58:14,042
"No, you've admitted it,
now go and rot."
1277
00:58:14,145 --> 00:58:16,285
[Static crackles]
-Frederick West was found dead
1278
00:58:16,389 --> 00:58:18,391
in his cell
in Winson Green Prison.
1279
00:58:18,495 --> 00:58:20,393
He was awaiting trial,
accused of murdering
1280
00:58:20,497 --> 00:58:21,670
12 women and girls.
1281
00:58:21,774 --> 00:58:27,020
♪♪
1282
00:58:27,124 --> 00:58:29,816
-Rosemary West in public
for the first time
1283
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,129
since her husband was found
hanging in his cell
1284
00:58:32,232 --> 00:58:33,786
on New Year's Day.
1285
00:58:33,889 --> 00:58:36,996
-Rose West was charged
with ten counts of murder.
1286
00:58:37,099 --> 00:58:40,620
She was remanded in custody
whilst she awaited trial.
1287
00:58:40,724 --> 00:58:43,520
I looked over the top
of the railings
1288
00:58:43,623 --> 00:58:46,730
and it was Rose West [Laughs]
and I thought, "Ooh!"
1289
00:58:46,833 --> 00:58:49,629
-Sandra Gregory was jailed
for drug trafficking
1290
00:58:49,733 --> 00:58:53,219
and got to know Rose
in HMP Durham.
1291
00:58:53,322 --> 00:58:54,910
-She swears a bit.
1292
00:58:55,014 --> 00:58:56,463
And she can foam a little bit
at the mouth
1293
00:58:56,567 --> 00:58:58,707
when she gets a bit animated,
but she'd say,
1294
00:58:58,811 --> 00:59:02,021
"They said that he killed
himself to protect me.
1295
00:59:02,124 --> 00:59:03,609
They don't know nothing.
1296
00:59:03,712 --> 00:59:05,334
And you know what the
ultimate murder is, Sandra?"
1297
00:59:05,438 --> 00:59:07,474
And I was like,
"No, Rose, I don't."
1298
00:59:07,578 --> 00:59:10,201
"Their own! He did it because
that's the ultimate murder!
1299
00:59:10,305 --> 00:59:11,927
Why was it only fucking Rose
that's supposed to know
1300
00:59:12,031 --> 00:59:13,722
what he's doing
in that fucking cellar?
1301
00:59:13,826 --> 00:59:15,621
It had a locked door on it,
you know.
1302
00:59:15,724 --> 00:59:17,243
I never went
down in that fucking cellar!
1303
00:59:17,346 --> 00:59:18,693
I'm up there,
feeding all the kids!"
1304
00:59:18,796 --> 00:59:20,349
And I said, "Oh,
and how many children
1305
00:59:20,453 --> 00:59:22,628
have you got, then, Rose?"
1306
00:59:22,731 --> 00:59:24,388
And she looked at me and said,
1307
00:59:24,491 --> 00:59:25,803
"Well, I used to have eight."
1308
00:59:25,907 --> 00:59:29,013
♪♪
1309
00:59:29,117 --> 00:59:30,843
I was like, "Ooh!"
1310
00:59:30,946 --> 00:59:33,846
I didn't progress
that conversation.
1311
00:59:33,949 --> 00:59:35,917
-In October 1995,
1312
00:59:36,020 --> 00:59:40,784
Rose West was to stand trial
for the ten murders.
1313
00:59:40,887 --> 00:59:42,579
-Rose was denying involvement.
1314
00:59:42,682 --> 00:59:44,063
Those were my instructions,
1315
00:59:44,166 --> 00:59:47,825
so that was the story
that I would've accepted.
1316
00:59:47,929 --> 00:59:49,827
Therefore, professionally,
you have to deal
1317
00:59:49,931 --> 00:59:53,037
with the evidence
that seems to conflict
1318
00:59:53,141 --> 00:59:54,729
with what your client
is telling you.
1319
00:59:54,832 --> 00:59:57,179
-I was astonished to hear
that Rosemary West
1320
00:59:57,283 --> 00:59:58,871
was going to give evidence.
1321
00:59:58,974 --> 01:00:01,701
-Paul Cheston was the senior
court correspondent
1322
01:00:01,805 --> 01:00:03,220
for the Evening Standard
1323
01:00:03,323 --> 01:00:05,809
and attended every day
of the trial.
1324
01:00:05,912 --> 01:00:09,502
-She went into the witness box
and immediately,
1325
01:00:09,606 --> 01:00:10,814
"I'm not to blame.
1326
01:00:10,917 --> 01:00:12,022
Fred did everything.
1327
01:00:12,125 --> 01:00:13,506
I had no idea
what he was up to.
1328
01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:15,128
It was a complete mystery.
1329
01:00:15,232 --> 01:00:16,751
I was shocked and horrified to
find that
1330
01:00:16,854 --> 01:00:20,099
members of my family were being
killed by my husband."
1331
01:00:20,202 --> 01:00:22,584
As soon as you saw
25 Cromwell Street
1332
01:00:22,688 --> 01:00:24,517
and saw how small it was,
1333
01:00:24,621 --> 01:00:27,589
and as the number of bodies
being found mounted,
1334
01:00:27,693 --> 01:00:30,661
you realized Fred was
not operating on his own.
1335
01:00:30,765 --> 01:00:33,837
-Under cross-examination,
it soon became apparent
1336
01:00:33,940 --> 01:00:36,115
that Rose was not
telling the truth.
1337
01:00:36,218 --> 01:00:39,808
-She'd snookered herself
in relation to Heather.
1338
01:00:39,912 --> 01:00:42,086
He had to kick her out
because she was a lesbian.
1339
01:00:42,190 --> 01:00:45,089
And then it turns out Rose
enjoyed lesbian relationships,
1340
01:00:45,193 --> 01:00:46,366
as well,
and you think,
1341
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:47,920
"Well, that's totally
inconsistent."
1342
01:00:48,023 --> 01:00:49,680
And then they'd seen her around,
they'd sent her money,
1343
01:00:49,784 --> 01:00:53,511
spoken to her on the phone.
1344
01:00:53,615 --> 01:00:54,927
Complete nonsense,
1345
01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:56,618
because Heather was buried
in the garden.
1346
01:00:56,722 --> 01:00:58,689
I could have sat there and said,
"Look, Rose,
1347
01:00:58,793 --> 01:01:00,622
you're lying through
your teeth to me.
1348
01:01:00,726 --> 01:01:02,348
You're totally false.
1349
01:01:02,451 --> 01:01:05,040
Why don't you get with it
and start admitting stuff?"
1350
01:01:05,144 --> 01:01:08,492
She said what was convenient
to say.
1351
01:01:08,595 --> 01:01:11,253
And that's how she dealt
with her evidence at court.
1352
01:01:13,324 --> 01:01:16,396
-She remained very impassive
throughout the entire hearing,
1353
01:01:16,500 --> 01:01:18,640
giving very little away.
1354
01:01:18,744 --> 01:01:21,712
-Survivor Caroline Owens
courageously spoke
1355
01:01:21,816 --> 01:01:26,061
about the horrific ordeal
she suffered before her escape.
1356
01:01:26,165 --> 01:01:28,477
-Miss Owens claims she was
subjected to
1357
01:01:28,581 --> 01:01:30,341
further serious sexual assaults,
1358
01:01:30,445 --> 01:01:32,965
including being beaten with
a leather belt.
1359
01:01:33,068 --> 01:01:36,865
She told the court,
"I was scared to death."
1360
01:01:36,969 --> 01:01:39,765
-She didn't appear to be
upset, disturbed.
1361
01:01:39,868 --> 01:01:43,320
I think it's possible that she
never really appreciated
1362
01:01:43,423 --> 01:01:45,391
the enormity
of what was going on.
1363
01:01:45,494 --> 01:01:48,049
-But Rose would soon show
her violent side,
1364
01:01:48,152 --> 01:01:52,536
when the prosecution presented
the next key witness.
1365
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:54,780
-Rosemary West was in
the witness box for three days,
1366
01:01:54,883 --> 01:01:57,092
and was getting
progressively more tired.
1367
01:01:57,196 --> 01:01:59,267
And Brian Leveson,
as prosecutor,
1368
01:01:59,370 --> 01:02:02,097
cross-examined on
a whole range of subjects,
1369
01:02:02,201 --> 01:02:04,203
and to build up to a climax
1370
01:02:04,306 --> 01:02:06,964
about asking her
about Charmaine.
1371
01:02:07,068 --> 01:02:10,968
-She was very subdued
about Charmaine.
1372
01:02:11,072 --> 01:02:16,042
She found it very difficult
to revisit that.
1373
01:02:16,146 --> 01:02:19,908
-A neighbor from 25 Midland Road
had come forward.
1374
01:02:20,012 --> 01:02:21,841
She had witnessed
Rose's attitude
1375
01:02:21,945 --> 01:02:23,601
towards her first victim,
1376
01:02:23,705 --> 01:02:26,915
eight-year-old Charmaine,
25 years earlier.
1377
01:02:27,019 --> 01:02:29,504
-A neighbor had come
into the house
1378
01:02:29,607 --> 01:02:32,058
and she was startled
to see Charmaine
1379
01:02:32,162 --> 01:02:34,509
standing on a chair,
stark naked,
1380
01:02:34,612 --> 01:02:36,511
bound with her hands
behind her back,
1381
01:02:36,614 --> 01:02:39,031
and Rosemary West
with a rolling pin
1382
01:02:39,134 --> 01:02:41,447
in an aggressive fashion.
1383
01:02:41,550 --> 01:02:43,621
And Brian Leveson pressed
and pressed and pressed,
1384
01:02:43,725 --> 01:02:46,245
and eventually she snapped
and shouted at him.
1385
01:02:46,348 --> 01:02:49,835
And that was the moment when
the jury could see what she was,
1386
01:02:49,938 --> 01:02:52,665
not a cuddly housewife,
mother of six,
1387
01:02:52,769 --> 01:02:57,635
but a short-tempered woman
who would react
1388
01:02:57,739 --> 01:03:01,432
with a flash of temper
when things do not go her way.
1389
01:03:04,435 --> 01:03:06,299
-She came unstuck,
she didn't present as
1390
01:03:06,403 --> 01:03:08,785
a good witness in court.
1391
01:03:08,888 --> 01:03:11,891
-We perhaps had tended to want
to think
1392
01:03:11,995 --> 01:03:14,791
that Rose would be the passive
person who was just
1393
01:03:14,894 --> 01:03:16,482
putting up with it.
1394
01:03:16,585 --> 01:03:18,277
The more evidence we heard made
us realize
1395
01:03:18,380 --> 01:03:20,969
that Rose was very much
an active participant,
1396
01:03:21,073 --> 01:03:24,386
far more active than we ever
could have imagined.
1397
01:03:24,490 --> 01:03:26,630
-Rosemary West was driven
to court today
1398
01:03:26,733 --> 01:03:29,875
to hear the judge begin summing
up seven weeks of evidence,
1399
01:03:29,978 --> 01:03:33,568
the result of almost 100
statements from witnesses.
1400
01:03:33,671 --> 01:03:36,502
-When the jury foreman read
out the verdict of guilty,
1401
01:03:36,605 --> 01:03:38,538
you could see
Rose West sway.
1402
01:03:38,642 --> 01:03:40,506
She was not expecting this.
1403
01:03:40,609 --> 01:03:43,095
-When Rose was finally
taken down,
1404
01:03:43,198 --> 01:03:45,235
she was totally distraught.
1405
01:03:45,338 --> 01:03:49,239
The ground from under her feet
had disappeared
1406
01:03:49,342 --> 01:03:51,482
and she was
sobbing uncontrollably.
1407
01:03:51,586 --> 01:03:55,624
-She honestly thought that she
was going to get away with this.
1408
01:03:55,728 --> 01:03:57,523
-Rosemary Pauline West,
1409
01:03:57,626 --> 01:03:59,697
on each of the ten counts
of murder,
1410
01:03:59,801 --> 01:04:02,252
the sentence is one of
life imprisonment.
1411
01:04:02,355 --> 01:04:06,256
-Well, she's equivocal
on innocence.
1412
01:04:06,359 --> 01:04:09,121
The prospect of Rose...
1413
01:04:09,224 --> 01:04:11,882
suddenly deciding to kick
the wall down and say,
1414
01:04:11,986 --> 01:04:14,126
"This is what it's all about,
this is what I've done,
1415
01:04:14,229 --> 01:04:15,990
this is how I feel,"
1416
01:04:16,093 --> 01:04:18,613
um, I think the chances
of that are nil.
1417
01:04:18,716 --> 01:04:20,684
-And as she crossed
the courtyard,
1418
01:04:20,787 --> 01:04:22,997
our camera caught
the final moments as,
1419
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:24,481
holding white carrier bag,
1420
01:04:24,584 --> 01:04:29,244
she was taken inside,
flanked by warders.
1421
01:04:29,348 --> 01:04:31,695
-Rose West will die in prison,
1422
01:04:31,798 --> 01:04:34,525
where she maintains
her innocence to this day.
1423
01:04:34,629 --> 01:04:37,666
♪♪
1424
01:04:37,770 --> 01:04:40,359
-I don't know how many mornings
Rose West counts,
1425
01:04:40,462 --> 01:04:44,397
saying that, "They're being
really mean to me!
1426
01:04:44,501 --> 01:04:47,573
And they're being really
unkind to me!"
1427
01:04:47,676 --> 01:04:49,575
And she didn't want to come out
of her cell,
1428
01:04:49,678 --> 01:04:51,888
and was considering giving up
her wing cleaning job.
1429
01:04:51,991 --> 01:04:53,717
And she was
really kind of upset,
1430
01:04:53,820 --> 01:04:55,546
as though she was
being bullied.
1431
01:04:55,650 --> 01:04:58,204
She just didn't have
the strength of character
1432
01:04:58,308 --> 01:05:01,345
that I would've expected
a serial killer to have had.
1433
01:05:01,449 --> 01:05:04,245
♪♪
1434
01:05:04,348 --> 01:05:07,420
-She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront
1435
01:05:07,524 --> 01:05:08,870
since her childhood.
1436
01:05:08,974 --> 01:05:11,493
When I asked her to describe
her childhood,
1437
01:05:11,597 --> 01:05:14,841
she describes a sugar-sweet,
1438
01:05:14,945 --> 01:05:19,260
candy-coated, flossy,
merry time.
1439
01:05:19,363 --> 01:05:23,195
She presents the home life
as these vigilant,
1440
01:05:23,298 --> 01:05:25,852
overprotective parents who would
do anything for their children
1441
01:05:25,956 --> 01:05:31,651
and were always there,
which was complete nonsense.
1442
01:05:31,755 --> 01:05:36,242
-Since childhood, Rose has
preferred fantasy over reality,
1443
01:05:36,346 --> 01:05:39,452
something that contributed
to her narcissism.
1444
01:05:39,556 --> 01:05:42,076
But Rose's path may have
been destined to end
1445
01:05:42,179 --> 01:05:46,666
in this disturbing way
before she was even born.
1446
01:05:46,770 --> 01:05:50,498
I think where the mother
is mentally ill,
1447
01:05:50,601 --> 01:05:54,847
not engaging, and stressed,
suffering from anxiety,
1448
01:05:54,951 --> 01:06:00,715
it's all that stuff that impacts
on the unborn child.
1449
01:06:00,818 --> 01:06:03,925
The psychology
starts in the womb.
1450
01:06:04,029 --> 01:06:06,514
-Daisy's deficiencies were
contributing factors
1451
01:06:06,617 --> 01:06:07,998
in Rose's development,
1452
01:06:08,102 --> 01:06:10,587
but her narcissism was
a result of the abuse
1453
01:06:10,690 --> 01:06:12,451
inflicted by her father.
1454
01:06:12,554 --> 01:06:14,729
-There's no doubt
that Bill Letts
1455
01:06:14,832 --> 01:06:17,111
altered his daughter
considerably.
1456
01:06:17,214 --> 01:06:20,769
-Rosemary West had no morals
at any time in her life.
1457
01:06:20,873 --> 01:06:23,082
She was brought up
in a house of depravity,
1458
01:06:23,186 --> 01:06:26,534
and where sexual practices
and customs
1459
01:06:26,637 --> 01:06:29,640
applied to other people,
they didn't apply to her.
1460
01:06:29,744 --> 01:06:33,230
-The abuse by Bill Letts
made her ripe
1461
01:06:33,334 --> 01:06:38,063
for her partnership
with Fred West.
1462
01:06:38,166 --> 01:06:43,585
-But there is a leap between
sexual depravity and murder.
1463
01:06:43,689 --> 01:06:48,211
And Fred provided that bridge
that she willingly crossed.
1464
01:06:48,314 --> 01:06:50,868
♪♪
1465
01:06:50,972 --> 01:06:52,836
-I think Rose
became a serial killer
1466
01:06:52,939 --> 01:06:54,527
because she married Fred.
1467
01:06:54,631 --> 01:06:57,703
I think, had she married
somebody else,
1468
01:06:57,806 --> 01:07:00,292
it might've been
very different.
1469
01:07:00,395 --> 01:07:04,503
But add the two together,
the so-called folie à deux,
1470
01:07:04,606 --> 01:07:09,611
then you have an absolutely
lethal combination.
1471
01:07:09,715 --> 01:07:13,615
She was encouraged, and then
once she got a taste for it,
1472
01:07:13,719 --> 01:07:16,653
she couldn't stop.
1473
01:07:16,756 --> 01:07:18,448
-People will hold their hands
up in horror at the way
1474
01:07:18,551 --> 01:07:20,070
that Rose was treated,
1475
01:07:20,174 --> 01:07:23,246
and what presumably led to her
becoming the way she was,
1476
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:25,248
by the abuse she suffered.
1477
01:07:25,351 --> 01:07:27,319
We'd like to think that
in this day and age,
1478
01:07:27,422 --> 01:07:29,873
that situation couldn't arise,
but unfortunately,
1479
01:07:29,976 --> 01:07:31,909
from cases I've covered
even recently,
1480
01:07:32,013 --> 01:07:34,533
it does still happen.
1481
01:07:34,636 --> 01:07:36,811
It shows, really,
that social services
1482
01:07:36,914 --> 01:07:39,503
and all the things that maybe
have been learnt
1483
01:07:39,607 --> 01:07:41,643
over the last
30 years or whatever,
1484
01:07:41,747 --> 01:07:43,852
since the West case
and before then,
1485
01:07:43,956 --> 01:07:47,028
are simply not,
for whatever reason,
1486
01:07:47,132 --> 01:07:49,824
being -- being brought into
practice, you know?
1487
01:07:49,927 --> 01:07:52,827
Elements of checking
and finding out and preventing
1488
01:07:52,930 --> 01:07:54,208
just still do not happen.
1489
01:07:54,311 --> 01:07:56,658
And I think it's partly because,
very often,
1490
01:07:56,762 --> 01:07:59,661
the people who do this kind of
thing are extremely devious
1491
01:07:59,765 --> 01:08:02,733
and they find ways round it.
1492
01:08:02,837 --> 01:08:06,875
-Rose's contrariness continued.
1493
01:08:06,979 --> 01:08:08,394
I prepared an appeal,
1494
01:08:08,498 --> 01:08:10,396
and that application went in,
1495
01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:13,503
and then at a late stage with
that, in 2001,
1496
01:08:13,606 --> 01:08:14,883
she contacted me and said,
1497
01:08:14,987 --> 01:08:17,127
"I don't want you to proceed
with this,"
1498
01:08:17,231 --> 01:08:19,474
because, she said,
"Well, I've decided that
1499
01:08:19,578 --> 01:08:22,270
I might as well spend the rest
of my life in prison."
1500
01:08:22,374 --> 01:08:24,893
So I said, "Does this mean
you're admitting your guilt?"
1501
01:08:24,997 --> 01:08:26,999
And she said, "No, it doesn't."
1502
01:08:27,103 --> 01:08:30,727
So, again, there's that
duplicity and contradiction
1503
01:08:30,830 --> 01:08:32,901
that you just can't get round.
1504
01:08:33,005 --> 01:08:35,387
♪♪
1505
01:08:35,490 --> 01:08:38,114
Does she deserve to die
in prison?
1506
01:08:38,217 --> 01:08:40,012
If you accept she's guilty,
then, yeah,
1507
01:08:40,116 --> 01:08:42,566
there can be absolutely no doubt
she deserves to die in prison.
1508
01:08:42,670 --> 01:08:51,161
♪♪
1509
01:08:51,265 --> 01:09:01,137
♪♪
1510
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:07,143
♪♪
1511
01:09:07,246 --> 01:09:11,940
♪♪
111259
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