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this is christopher cernike hosting
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episode 8 of season 3
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of the current topics in science podcast
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this podcast will address breaking
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scientific news in light of the origins
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debate
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and host interviews with scientists this
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podcast is available on the following
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platforms
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itunes stitcher google podcast spotify
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and i heart radio
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video recordings of the podcast will be
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uploaded to youtube
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enjoy the podcast
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[Applause]
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today on the current topics in science
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podcast we have the honor of hosting dr
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arthur chadwick
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dr chadwick received his ba in biology
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from la sierra college
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and his phd in molecular biology from
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the university of miami
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he received training in both geology and
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paleontology from the university of
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california
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and the university of oklahoma and he's
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worked in the fields of tauponomy and
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sedimentary geology
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he's been a professor of biology geology
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and geophysics
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at multiple universities and he was a
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research associate
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at the geoscience research institute
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he's a paleontology specialist who is
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the director of the dinosaur research
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project
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of the dinosaur science museum and was
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featured as a tafonomy expert
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in the acclaimed is genesis history
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documentary
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he has done research on a variety of
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subjects including
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systematic analysis of the geologic
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column
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in the colorado basin he's a member of
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five different professional scientific
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societies
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and he's earned 11 awards and honors in
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his scientific career
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he also co-directs a typhonomic study at
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one of the largest dinosaur bone beds in
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the world
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he has conducted geological research the
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grand canyon
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yellowstone national parks in peru and
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on fossil whales
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on the global circulation patterns
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through time
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dr chadwick is the author of numerous
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scientific papers
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as well as the co-author of a science
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textbook he's also the co-founder of the
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earth
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history research center and currently
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serves
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as a director of that center he
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currently teaches five courses at
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southwestern adventist university where
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he's been teaching for nearly four
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decades dr chadwick is married to his
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beloved
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joy chadwick who's a ceramics teacher at
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that same university
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they have two adult children dan and
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barbara who are both
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active physicians he is grateful to god
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for guiding him
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and his family now without further ado
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good afternoon dr chadwick how was your
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day and how are you doing
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good afternoon chris it's uh it's been a
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great day so far
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and i'm really enjoying spending a
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little time
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away from the office it was my birthday
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today so
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we had a special party this morning and
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another one at lunch so it's been an
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exciting day
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i hope that you're enjoying your
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birthday dr chadwick and it's a pleasure
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to have you on current topics in science
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now since this is current topics in
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science we're going to quickly look at
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this week's current topic
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cambridge university press has just made
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available for purchase
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a book by lee lyman called vertebrate
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tafonomy
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it's a part of the cambridge manuals in
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archaeology
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the description of this book reads in
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recent years
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archaeologists and paleontologists have
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become increasingly interested
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in how and why vertebrate animal remains
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become
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or do not become fossils vertebrate
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tafonomy introduces
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interested researchers to the wealth of
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analytical techniques
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developed by archaeologists and
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paleontologists to help them
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understand why prehistoric animal
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remains
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do or do not preserve and why those that
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preserve
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appear the way they do dr chadwick i'm
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wondering
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in light of this promotion what do you
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think about how
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and why vertebrate animal remains become
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or do not become
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fossils that's a really broad topic and
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would take a lot of time to address it
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adequately but i can
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i can try to approach it
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it's clear that when an animal dies
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something has to happen very quickly or
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its remains will become
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dispersed and will not remain as to be
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fossilized
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it's it's difficult today if you're if
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your animal your dog dies
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i had a dog that died a few years ago i
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buried him out in my backyard
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and he was a large dog german shepherd
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and a few years later i tried to find
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his his gravesite i couldn't even find
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the bones
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even though i knew where i buried it and
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this is typical of what happens to an
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organism bacteria in the in the soil and
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and fungi and other kinds of degrading
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processes take place and so
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the remains of an animal are quickly
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dispersed
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in in africa sometimes one one of the
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things that tafonimus study is what
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happens to modern animals
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there was a herd of wild beasts that
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went across the river during flood stage
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a few years back
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and about ten thousand of them were
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killed
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and within two years you couldn't find
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the remains
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of a wildebeest at that particular in
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that particular area
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even though such a huge amount of
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material was deposited
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or was at least deposited at the site
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so it's normally it's serendipitous if
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an
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animal remains are preserved
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but if you had a catastrophic process
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that was bearing a lot of things
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you would expect to find a lot of things
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preserved as fossils because once
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they're buried
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and away from the normal biota they tend
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to
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be preserved and eventually fossilized
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dr chadwick thank you so much for those
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interesting insights about the fossil
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record
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you know the fossil record is often
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brought up when discussing origins
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with creationists with evolutionists
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with id advocates
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all alike claiming that the fossil
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record is an
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accurate reflection of their viewpoint
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dr chadwick in a research paper called
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of dinosaurs and men
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he wrote about how the riverbed of the
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paluxy of central texas
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has been a source of extensive
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discussions between evolutionists
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and creationists i was reading this
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paper
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and i came upon this interesting
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paragraph where you said
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at what cost to truth did we ignore data
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which were contrary to some pet theory
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however interesting or inviting it may
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have seemed
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the cost was indeed great
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creationists might have had the honor of
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laying aside this misconception
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ten years ago with little philosophical
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expense
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as a result of their own scientific
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research
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it has now been torn away by individuals
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many of whom
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unlike cuban himself have little regard
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for the cause of creationism
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does not need the footprints in the
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paluxy river
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for its support dr chadwick
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what's the story behind the paluxy river
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and how can both
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scientists and laymen alike be more
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discerning when it comes to scientific
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research
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the biloxi river story goes way back
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into the 1930s and
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and 1940s there were scientists out
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exploring in this area in central texas
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and the peluxi river had long been known
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to
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be the source of dinosaur tracks which
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were amazing in themselves then
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somewhere along the line
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the idea of human tracks with the
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dinosaur tracks
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came into the picture and people began
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to
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start to attribute certain features of
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the riverbed as
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as human tracks and suggest that
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dinosaurs and humans lived at the same
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time
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well that is a belief system for me i
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believe
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dinosaurs and humans were on the earth
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at the same time but
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i don't want to support it with evidence
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that's that's not
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sound so we came out in the early 1970s
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we drove out to texas and we explored
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these tracks we made casts of what was
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there
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and we discovered
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that there are elongate tracks that look
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somewhat humanoid
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and there are three toad tracks that
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look very much like dinosaur tracks
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and the elongate tracks we discovered
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had in the front of them which would be
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the direction the animal was moving you
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could see on several of the tracks that
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there were three
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toe marks just barely embedded into the
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mud
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when the animal was walking so
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presumably the animal was not walking
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up on its foot like this but it was
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walking on its ankle like this
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which is called the plantagrade uh
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walking and so they were probably the
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water level was low if they lived in the
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water the water level was low
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but for whatever reason these animals
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were walking
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on their wrists and they left elongate
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tracks and they weren't human tracks at
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all
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so we published that and
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we were pretty much
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panned by the by the creationist
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community because we were
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unsettling their argument but we wanted
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truth we didn't care about
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what the tracks say we didn't need the
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tracks to support our
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our position because our position came
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basically from the bible
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and we wanted to know what the tracks
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were
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what the tracks said and if there were
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human tracks there that would be very
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interesting
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and we should document it in a
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scientific fashion and not just spread
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rumors about it
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so that's what we set out to do in all
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our study we found out that there were
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a number of tracks that had been carved
291
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:26,640
in the rocks
292
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,560
they were both human and dinosaur tracks
293
00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:30,320
so presumably these people back during
294
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,519
the depression
295
00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:33,600
would make money any way they they could
296
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,079
and some of them carved dinosaur tracks
297
00:10:36,079 --> 00:10:37,920
and we found out we could tell a carved
298
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,920
track because the
299
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,959
interior structure of the limestone the
300
00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:44,560
internal structure of the limestone was
301
00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:45,600
batted
302
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,360
so you could see lines that would come
303
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,519
up to the track and then stop
304
00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:51,440
and that would be a car track whereas in
305
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,519
a real track which we also looked at in
306
00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:54,399
section
307
00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:56,079
the lines would come and go dip down
308
00:10:56,079 --> 00:10:57,600
underneath the track and come up on the
309
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:58,880
other side
310
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,800
so um we published that data
311
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,440
and as i said we were panned by the
312
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,800
creationists
313
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,079
and that's that's fine but
314
00:11:10,079 --> 00:11:11,760
we could have we could have been
315
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,279
responsible
316
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:15,600
for good scholarship instead we were
317
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,399
credited with
318
00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:18,560
claiming that things that weren't human
319
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,480
tracks were human tracks
320
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,519
so that's kind of the blunt end of the
321
00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:24,720
story
322
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,760
and so when we look at that story
323
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,000
are there any lessons that you would say
324
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,279
that we can learn
325
00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:33,200
from that today and how we would go
326
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,079
about doing scientific research now
327
00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:39,279
i think one thing you can learn is that
328
00:11:39,279 --> 00:11:41,600
it has to do with the basis using
329
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:42,480
science as
330
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,560
evidence to support your theory if
331
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:45,519
you're using
332
00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:48,720
science to support your views i think
333
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,320
that's probably wrong-headed because the
334
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,959
views are basically philosophical
335
00:11:52,959 --> 00:11:54,240
whether you believe in creation or
336
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,720
evolution it's a philosophical position
337
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,160
it's not demanded by science and
338
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,839
i think it's very important for people
339
00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:03,600
to recognize that
340
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,320
and it's not necessary to have silver
341
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,120
bullets
342
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,959
to destroy other people's arguments
343
00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:10,320
instead you should
344
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,440
build relationships and seek to
345
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,120
become a member of the scientific
346
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,120
community in good standing
347
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,760
by doing good scientific work and just
348
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:20,959
going out and
349
00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:22,639
shouting from the house stops that you
350
00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:25,120
have a silver bullet
351
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,920
that destroys the evolutionary scenario
352
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,920
that's nonsense because evolution as i
353
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,160
said is a philosophical construct
354
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,800
just like creation is and it's not
355
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,120
something that you can destroy
356
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,279
if you have data that says suggest
357
00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:40,720
somebody else's
358
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,279
data is not correctly interpreted that's
359
00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:44,800
fine publish it
360
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,880
in the scientific literature and
361
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,720
establish whatever position you're
362
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:49,760
working on
363
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,079
but don't claim to be doing scientific
364
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:52,800
work
365
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,600
if you don't if you are not willing to
366
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:56,399
accept
367
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:59,200
the standards of science dr chadwick
368
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,279
that was really good advice
369
00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:04,560
on how to approach scientific research
370
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,880
and speaking of research you were a
371
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,720
research associate
372
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,440
of the geoscience research institute
373
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,519
which recently had a major article
374
00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:15,120
published in adventist review this
375
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,639
february first
376
00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:19,760
raul esperante a research scientist from
377
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:20,880
geoscience
378
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,160
wrote an article called why are fossils
379
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,720
important for christians learning a lot
380
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,160
from dead bones
381
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,600
etc he concluded the article by saying
382
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,000
fossils and the rocks in which they are
383
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:34,959
contained
384
00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:37,279
are an excellent platform for discussing
385
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:39,839
origins from a biblical perspective
386
00:13:39,839 --> 00:13:42,320
especially in relation to the design and
387
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,160
complexity of ancient life
388
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,399
and the worldwide destruction caused by
389
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:48,959
noaa's flood many questions regarding
390
00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:49,680
fossils
391
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,880
origins creation and the flood are still
392
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:53,360
there
393
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,399
for us to investigate dr chadwick what
394
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,160
are some areas of research that you
395
00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:58,800
think
396
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,639
that creationists need to further
397
00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:02,000
investigate in
398
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,120
terms of toponymy and paleontology well
399
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,360
that's a huge question
400
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,360
i was talking to somebody the other day
401
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,440
about
402
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,680
the how i got into this kind of work
403
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,199
it turns out when you're first starting
404
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:18,720
your career
405
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,240
it's very difficult to think of the
406
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,639
right questions to ask and how to
407
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:23,120
approach
408
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,279
the answer to those questions by the
409
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:26,399
time i've reached
410
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,240
near the end of my career i have so many
411
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,440
questions
412
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,519
that i could i could supply anybody that
413
00:14:31,519 --> 00:14:33,360
wanted projects to work on i think dr
414
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,720
brandt and i together
415
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,120
are working on six or seven different
416
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,720
scientific projects all of which have
417
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,160
some bearing on
418
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,519
the relationship of geology and
419
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:44,800
paleontology to
420
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,320
the model of origins so there is there
421
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:49,760
are a lot of different
422
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,639
things that you could pursue i mean in
423
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:54,320
in our dinosaur research
424
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,680
we're trying to understand how these
425
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,560
dinosaurs got to be where they are
426
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,959
we just published a major paper on that
427
00:15:00,959 --> 00:15:02,320
last year
428
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,839
and we have started another paper
429
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:08,560
just dealing with the taxonomy of these
430
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,800
animals these amazing animals
431
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,720
so there's just a lot of there are a lot
432
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,079
of different directions you could go and
433
00:15:14,079 --> 00:15:14,800
of course
434
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,839
all the data we have we have 30 000 over
435
00:15:17,839 --> 00:15:20,480
30 000 fossils in our collection
436
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,040
those fossils tell lots of stories
437
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,240
including
438
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,600
predation and scavenging and disease
439
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,959
and life processes that you can read out
440
00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:32,160
of the bones
441
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,480
so there are um there are a lot of
442
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,320
papers coming out right now on our
443
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,800
on our work and with a special interest
444
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,440
in
445
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,720
the disease processes and the
446
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,199
in the life processes of these dinosaurs
447
00:15:47,199 --> 00:15:48,480
that's all coming out of the bones
448
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,839
themselves
449
00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:52,079
that's pretty incredible dr chadwick and
450
00:15:52,079 --> 00:15:53,519
i'm sure that your comments are going to
451
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:54,720
help spur
452
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,279
further creationist research let's
453
00:15:57,279 --> 00:15:58,639
actually take a moment
454
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:01,519
to talk about your own areas of research
455
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,399
on your is genesis history bio
456
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:07,199
it states that you're developing a model
457
00:16:07,199 --> 00:16:10,639
for the tafonomy of dinosaur bone beds
458
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:12,880
dr chadwick i'm wondering may you
459
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,519
describe your tafonomy dinosaur bone bed
460
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:16,240
model
461
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,399
contrast it with models held by
462
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:19,839
evolutionists
463
00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:21,920
and show why your model perhaps has
464
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,160
greater explanatory power
465
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,480
just published this model just last year
466
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,560
in that major paper
467
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,600
and the model differs from the standard
468
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,000
model
469
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,240
standard explanation for these kinds of
470
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,279
bone beds that we
471
00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:38,639
that we're finding is that a dinosaur
472
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:40,480
it's based on the african
473
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,680
model of animal death that
474
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,320
animals were crossing a river when it
475
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,759
was at flood stage and some of them
476
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:48,880
drowned and got swept
477
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,320
downstream and caught in a bend in the
478
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,199
river and over time they accumulated and
479
00:16:53,199 --> 00:16:55,040
the bones built up and you had a bone
480
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:55,839
bed
481
00:16:55,839 --> 00:16:57,920
that's the standard model that's used by
482
00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,920
most paleontologists to explain these
483
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:00,959
bone beds
484
00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:03,440
however we discovered that in our bone
485
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:04,000
bed the
486
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,240
bones are not just randomly distributed
487
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,679
but they are graded
488
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:09,119
with large bones on the bottom and
489
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,959
smaller bones on the top
490
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:12,079
which means they couldn't have
491
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,319
accumulated over time they must have
492
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,240
been deposited that way
493
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,160
and thus they must have been deposited
494
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,760
in in deeper water
495
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,720
and so that can involve something very
496
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,640
rapid like a debris flow
497
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,799
or some other process that would
498
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:28,480
transport them quickly and bury them
499
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,760
quickly rather than
500
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,160
accumulation over a number of years so
501
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,520
that's a major
502
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,679
difference that we propose now of course
503
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:37,840
not everybody's going to accept that
504
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,720
but we think that's a valid model and is
505
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,559
believable
506
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:45,600
so that's that's all based on taponomy
507
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,960
we're now dealing with some more
508
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,640
difficult cases where you have some
509
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:49,840
isolated
510
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,400
dinosaurs we have a couple of
511
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,919
triceratops and a
512
00:17:53,919 --> 00:17:57,520
duckbill dinosaur and a raptor
513
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,320
and a small dinosaur called
514
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,840
thessalosaurus
515
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,720
and these are all in quarries that are
516
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:05,280
that are
517
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,720
different than the main quarry which is
518
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,320
a bone bed these are these are
519
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,799
individual skeletons more or less
520
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:12,880
juxtaposed so you still have the bones
521
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,520
fairly close to their original positions
522
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,000
and so we're having to explain that
523
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,600
right now that's the paper we're working
524
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:20,880
on at the moment
525
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,120
dr chadwick it was really fascinating
526
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,880
hearing you contrast
527
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,520
your ideas about fossils with the ideas
528
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:28,000
held by
529
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,360
evolutionists evolutionary scientists
530
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,919
like those at the university of berkeley
531
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:36,160
state that the fossil record provides
532
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,160
snapshots of the past that when
533
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,280
assembled
534
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,400
illustrate a panorama of evolutionary
535
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,200
change
536
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,320
over the past 4 billion years
537
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,280
the picture may be smudged but fossil
538
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,080
evidence
539
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,360
clearly shows that life is old and has
540
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,280
changed over time
541
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,840
now it sounds like the university of
542
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,720
california berkeley is making the case
543
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,039
that the fossil record is recording
544
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:05,039
evolutionary change
545
00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:07,919
and speaking of recording when my family
546
00:19:07,919 --> 00:19:09,600
went to the tampa aquarium
547
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,240
my brother casey who's a photographer he
548
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,160
took a picture of a jellyfish
549
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,320
which looks exactly the same as its
550
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,400
fossilized ancestors
551
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,360
dr chadwick can you explain what living
552
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:22,559
fossils are
553
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:24,559
and what their implications are for the
554
00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:26,240
evolutionary theory
555
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,240
there are a number of taxa that have
556
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,840
existed all the way through the fossil
557
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,960
record from from cambrian to recent
558
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,520
they're not a super abundant number but
559
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,360
there are a number of taxes for example
560
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,600
a brachiopod called lingula which is a
561
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,480
phosphate
562
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,320
containing it has a phosphate containing
563
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,480
shell phosphatic brachypod
564
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,760
it doesn't have a hinge and we find that
565
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,520
in the cambrian we also find it in the
566
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,120
modern environment so
567
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,960
this is a case of a very long-lived
568
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,360
taxon well the taxonomists have come
569
00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:58,080
along
570
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,280
since this was recognized and
571
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,360
have tried to give it a different name
572
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:04,799
so it doesn't look like it's been there
573
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:06,880
the whole time they do these kinds of
574
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,240
things to
575
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,600
try to maintain the appearance of a
576
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,720
fossil record of some sort but
577
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,400
there are there are enough taxes the
578
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,320
most recent one are bacteria that have
579
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:18,720
been
580
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,679
excavated from deep down in the earth
581
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:22,400
and
582
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,240
they are supposed to be from rocks that
583
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,000
are that are hundreds of millions of
584
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:26,880
years old and yet
585
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,360
they they seem to be unchanged from
586
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,360
modern taxes so
587
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,600
that again is a bit of a problem that's
588
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,880
just come up in the last
589
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,919
couple of weeks but there are
590
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:40,240
there are taxes that are called lazarus
591
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,000
taxa that
592
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,080
appear early in the fossil record and
593
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,679
then they disappear and then they appear
594
00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:47,120
late in the fossil record
595
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:49,760
like they were resurrected but the most
596
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,120
common thing you see in the fossil
597
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,039
record the theme of the fossil record
598
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,480
is no change things
599
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,640
come into the record they remain in the
600
00:20:58,640 --> 00:20:59,840
record for a while
601
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,440
and then they disappear from the record
602
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,760
just as they came in
603
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,240
in fact there's a a well-known
604
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:07,600
paleontologist
605
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,159
that i don't know if i mentioned his
606
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:11,039
name but
607
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:12,799
anyway he's in southern california and
608
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:15,120
he works with mammal fossils
609
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,440
and he did his dissertation i believe at
610
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,919
yale if i'm not mistaken
611
00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:24,159
and he studied 160 lineages
612
00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:26,480
of fossil mammals in the southwest
613
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,840
throughout the
614
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,559
cenozoic so he was tracing these mammals
615
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:31,679
from their first appearance in the
616
00:21:31,679 --> 00:21:32,960
fossil record
617
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,640
until they disappeared from the fossil
618
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,240
record looking for change
619
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,919
of course his goal was to find that
620
00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:39,280
change because he
621
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,159
was a thoroughgoing evolutionist in fact
622
00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:42,880
he's
623
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480
he is in a class of people we call
624
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,039
anti-creationists
625
00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:49,360
he hates creationists they are on his in
626
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:50,640
his radar
627
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,679
and so he doesn't want to look like a
628
00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:55,200
creationist but
629
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,320
nonetheless of these 160 lineages of
630
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,760
fossil mammals that he traced through
631
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,440
the cenozoic
632
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,799
he says 159 showed no change whatsoever
633
00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:06,240
from the time they first appeared in the
634
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,559
fossil record until they disappeared
635
00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:12,480
the third the one that changed
636
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,840
had slightly smaller it was oreodon
637
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,320
had slightly smaller members when they
638
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:19,760
disappeared than when it first appeared
639
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,720
so that
640
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,520
the fossil record tended to diminish
641
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:23,919
with
642
00:22:23,919 --> 00:22:27,360
with position position industry
643
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,880
but so so he talks about the fact that
644
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,039
evolution predicts that changes took
645
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,159
place during some
646
00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:37,600
catastrophic climatic event but when we
647
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,039
look at the fossil record where
648
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,880
are supposed to be catastrophic climatic
649
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,720
events and we look at the mammal fossil
650
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,280
record
651
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,000
we don't see any change which is which
652
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,039
is a striking
653
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:50,400
indication that this scenario does not
654
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,840
represent what we see in the fossil
655
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,880
record
656
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,000
so he he goes back to stephen gould's
657
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,120
model that the fossil record is mostly
658
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:01,840
stasis
659
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,240
which means there's no change with
660
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,320
occasional punctuations
661
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,919
which is where all the change takes
662
00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:09,760
place the reason
663
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,360
google came up with that model is
664
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:12,799
because that's what you see in the
665
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:14,080
fossil record
666
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,120
as as as the scientists
667
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,360
found out when you looked at these
668
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:20,960
fossil mammals
669
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,720
they don't change and they just
670
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,000
disappear
671
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,280
so you have stasis stay in the chains
672
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,080
staying the same and then disappearance
673
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:30,640
and
674
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,960
so that's just they call that an
675
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,880
evolutionary model but it really it's
676
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,919
a model of creation it's a model of
677
00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:41,520
no change or very little change
678
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,520
dr chadwick thank you so much for that
679
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,880
clear answer
680
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,919
about living fossils and different
681
00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:50,000
changes in the fossil record
682
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,039
or the record of no change as you said
683
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:55,360
i'd like to ask you now about one of the
684
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,279
most popular fossils
685
00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,840
the trilobite in an article you have
686
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,760
published under the american scientific
687
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,279
affiliation called
688
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:06,559
the trilobite enigma of complexity
689
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:09,840
a case for intelligent design you wrote
690
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,480
in the absence of evidence for the
691
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,480
evolution of complex
692
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,039
biochemical and integrated organ systems
693
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:18,400
in the trilobite
694
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,480
and for any increase in its information
695
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,360
content reliance on darwinian evolution
696
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,240
remains a matter of secular faith
697
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,320
we propose another theory of origins
698
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,559
that involves an intelligent designer
699
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:34,159
special creation dr chadwick why do you
700
00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:35,760
see the trilobite
701
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,919
and other fossilized creatures as being
702
00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:39,520
intelligently designed
703
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,520
well as you as you mentioned i have
704
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,520
training in both molecular biology and
705
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,520
also in paleontology and geology which
706
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,000
gives me
707
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,279
a unique position to
708
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:52,159
tackle questions like this it's it's
709
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:54,000
very clear if you look inside the cell
710
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,200
and that's what my
711
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,760
degree was in the cell molecular biology
712
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,679
if you look inside the cell you see a
713
00:24:59,679 --> 00:25:02,320
marvelous system of roads of
714
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,960
transportation vehicles and and
715
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,640
connecting systems and
716
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,799
nervous systems all inside the single
717
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:09,840
cell
718
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,000
digestive systems reproductive systems
719
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,679
all of these things are going on inside
720
00:25:13,679 --> 00:25:15,279
that little tiny cell
721
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:17,919
but when darwin first proposed his
722
00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:19,679
theory of evolution the cell was just a
723
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:21,360
bag of fluid
724
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,400
if he had seen the amazing things that
725
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,559
we have discovered since then
726
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:28,480
and i credit the scientific community
727
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,679
with having
728
00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:31,520
garnered this understanding which is so
729
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,200
astonishing
730
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,360
uh there's no way he could have proposed
731
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:36,960
the theory of evolution
732
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,080
how can you make a factory how can you
733
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,440
make a motor
734
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,279
and all these kinds of integrated
735
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:44,880
systems that
736
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,200
we find inside the cell and that's just
737
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,279
the beginning of complexity that's at
738
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:52,080
the lowest level every system that you
739
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,159
have in there needs a system higher up
740
00:25:54,159 --> 00:25:55,520
to regulate it
741
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,200
that higher up system needs another
742
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,960
system to regulate it
743
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,279
and so you have all these regulatory
744
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:02,240
systems
745
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,640
to control the development of the
746
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,400
integrated systems that you actually see
747
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,919
in the cell
748
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:09,919
nobody has come up with an explanation
749
00:26:09,919 --> 00:26:12,000
about how that could have happened
750
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,919
uh in in a abiotic
751
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,919
non-non-science with no scientists there
752
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:22,799
system with no scientist and and no life
753
00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:24,480
how you could ever get the first cell to
754
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,919
form
755
00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:28,080
is a terrible mystery for those that
756
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,520
believe it happened
757
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,799
it's it's it doesn't broach solution it
758
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:33,840
just
759
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,159
it just gets worse the more you look
760
00:26:36,159 --> 00:26:37,360
into it
761
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,840
we're finding more complexities much
762
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:40,960
faster
763
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,760
than those paleo bio-geochemistry
764
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:44,720
finding
765
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,480
explanations for the things they need to
766
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,400
make it happen by accident
767
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,360
dr chadwick i really enjoyed your answer
768
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:52,000
on how these
769
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,720
amazing creatures and how the amazing
770
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760
complexity in the cell it reveals
771
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,960
this incredible intelligence however
772
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,919
not all scientists would agree with you
773
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:05,760
for instance richard dawkins believes
774
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,679
that the fossil record is evidence for
775
00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:08,720
evolution
776
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,159
and he believes that ghost lineages
777
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:14,880
have satisfactorily explained fossil
778
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,679
patterns in the evolutionary model
779
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:20,880
dawkins says any cladogram
780
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,120
can be placed in a temporal framework
781
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:24,799
that agrees with the stratigraphic
782
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:26,080
record if sufficient
783
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,520
ghost lineages are invoked dr chadwick
784
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,600
what are ghost lineages and is there any
785
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,279
evidence for this evolutionary
786
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:34,399
explanation
787
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:36,240
well i'm not quite sure how he's using
788
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,720
ghostline agent i assume that means
789
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,039
that it's there but you can't see it
790
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:43,039
it's like
791
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:45,520
the term that that trilobite
792
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,440
paleontologists use for the organization
793
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,279
they call it
794
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:51,279
cryptogenesis it's a wonderful word
795
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:54,000
crypto means hidden genesis means origin
796
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,559
well
797
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,039
if all of your origins and all your
798
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:58,000
changes
799
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,279
are hidden or are secret you really
800
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:02,000
don't have a story
801
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,039
to tell and richard dawkins doesn't have
802
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:06,720
a story to tell either
803
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,000
and it's just amazing that
804
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,320
he can think just because i can wave my
805
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,600
arms around a little bit
806
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,679
i have an explanation i want to see an
807
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:16,720
explanation
808
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,000
for a single protein a single functional
809
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:20,880
protein
810
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,840
in a world which is not populated by
811
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,120
scientists
812
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,440
if you can explain that then i'll begin
813
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,799
to listen to some of the other things
814
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:29,600
that you
815
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,320
you have to say until you can show me a
816
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,760
single protein
817
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,360
with 20 amino acids all in the l form
818
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:39,120
that is put together in the proper
819
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,120
sequence to make it do something
820
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,120
you're just arm weighting and that's
821
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,360
just one protein
822
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,960
and nobody's even come close to that
823
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,640
nobody can there is no
824
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,720
scenario that would do that without a
825
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,559
scientist
826
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:54,640
any experiment on origin of life that's
827
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,240
being done now is done
828
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,000
in a laboratory or at least by a
829
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,480
scientist so there's always intervention
830
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,520
and usually
831
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120
they use chemicals that they got in pure
832
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,520
form from some chemical company
833
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,120
and many of these chemicals have come
834
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,039
from living organisms so they're not
835
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:12,080
even
836
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,039
they can't even get away from that and
837
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:16,399
their experiments just
838
00:29:16,399 --> 00:29:19,840
take us nowhere i wish they would learn
839
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,520
that and go do something more productive
840
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:22,559
with their lives
841
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:26,320
so very smart people dr chadwick
842
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,720
that was really incredible you know i
843
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,880
appreciated how
844
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,399
you pointed out that you actually have
845
00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:35,039
to have
846
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:38,080
good scientific evidence for a theory
847
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,720
you know you cannot simply act as though
848
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,399
that invoking
849
00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:44,240
you know sort of seems like rescuing
850
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,720
devices or imaginary entities
851
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,679
can actually save the theory yeah i i
852
00:29:49,679 --> 00:29:50,240
agree
853
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,320
i don't i don't think you can save the
854
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,799
theory by waving your arms
855
00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,279
and i i'm speaking about some of the
856
00:29:57,279 --> 00:29:59,600
outspoken people that i don't
857
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,760
i don't mind confronting on this issue
858
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,679
but many scientists
859
00:30:03,679 --> 00:30:06,720
are just neutral on this whole issue
860
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,200
they don't care they just want to learn
861
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,000
what's there
862
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,840
and the more they learn the less it
863
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,840
looks like an accident
864
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,120
wow speaking of that design in a film
865
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,240
called is genesis history you said what
866
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,399
we find in the fossil record
867
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:25,039
and contra to darwin's hopes this is the
868
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:25,919
rule
869
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:27,679
is that a form exists in the fossil
870
00:30:27,679 --> 00:30:30,480
record basically stays unchanged
871
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,120
and it disappears from the fossil record
872
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,200
without having been changed
873
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,600
that's got to mean something besides
874
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,720
evolution
875
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,720
because we don't ever see changes from
876
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,919
this form
877
00:30:41,919 --> 00:30:45,279
into this form in the rocks themselves
878
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,679
so it's coming from somewhere else it's
879
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:50,320
a paradigm that's being imposed on the
880
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,279
data
881
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:53,279
rather than the data providing the
882
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:54,480
paradigm
883
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,640
dr chadwick why is it important to
884
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,880
consider your paradigm when practicing
885
00:30:58,880 --> 00:30:59,679
science
886
00:30:59,679 --> 00:31:02,000
that's a really good question because so
887
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,120
few scientists do they aren't even aware
888
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,120
of the extent to which their science is
889
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,960
driven by paradigms
890
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,399
and i mean a lot of times
891
00:31:12,399 --> 00:31:14,240
what a paradigm does is it fills in all
892
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,440
the gaps
893
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,519
and it doesn't mean we have answers it
894
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:19,200
just means that we can skip over that
895
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,000
part
896
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,559
and so the scientists are over here
897
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:24,000
working on some
898
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,279
some minor aspect of let's say cell
899
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,279
biology they're working trying to
900
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:31,039
resolve what's going on they don't
901
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:32,960
realize that the revelations they're
902
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,399
making
903
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:38,000
are are inimical to evolutionary theory
904
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,080
and very often you'll find papers
905
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,000
perfectly good papers written
906
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
describing scientific research and then
907
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,799
at the end they tack on the obligatory
908
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:47,600
statement about
909
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,840
well either in molecular biology it's
910
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,679
usually about curing cancer
911
00:31:51,679 --> 00:31:54,320
but in other areas it's about how this
912
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,919
impacts evolution
913
00:31:55,919 --> 00:31:59,760
and that's that's nonsense that's not
914
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:00,399
that's not
915
00:32:00,399 --> 00:32:02,640
the paradigm that's just that's just a
916
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,480
whitewash job
917
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,919
and if they really thought about what
918
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:07,279
they were saying they'd realize that
919
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,519
they have gotten into deep water
920
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,159
and they're way over their hands and
921
00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:13,840
again these are very intelligent people
922
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,399
i i would never
923
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:19,279
seek to undermine the idea that these
924
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,120
scientists are intelligent
925
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,679
they're very intelligent and yet they
926
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:25,519
are bound by paradigms
927
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,880
that ask them to relinquish their
928
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,159
freedom to think and i think
929
00:32:30,159 --> 00:32:31,760
creationists
930
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,279
have a much better perspective
931
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:34,480
creationists who are trained as
932
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,039
scientists
933
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,679
who are doing science have a much better
934
00:32:37,679 --> 00:32:39,120
perspective on the world around them
935
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:39,919
because
936
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:41,440
they're free to think through all the
937
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,960
possibilities
938
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,640
i don't have any restrictions on where i
939
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,559
can go with my data
940
00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:50,480
and i think many scientists do
941
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,559
dr chadwick thank you so much for that
942
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,399
very telling answer
943
00:32:54,399 --> 00:32:56,159
and we've now arrived at our final
944
00:32:56,159 --> 00:32:57,440
question
945
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,360
the north american division of the
946
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,519
seventh-day adventist christian church
947
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:04,559
has an article called kindness or
948
00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:07,360
set them straight how do we deal with
949
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,600
persons who don't believe
950
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,720
genesis is right about creation and the
951
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,080
flood
952
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,480
this article tells a story of how a
953
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,399
group of scientists from loma linda
954
00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:19,600
university
955
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,080
geoscience research institute and
956
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,200
southwestern
957
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,760
adventist university spent about a
958
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,480
decade in research on a fossil wales
959
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,519
in the coastal plain of peru this group
960
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:33,039
of scientists says
961
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:34,919
they ended up finding a peruvian
962
00:33:34,919 --> 00:33:36,320
paleontologist
963
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,679
who was searching for more than fossils
964
00:33:39,679 --> 00:33:42,720
several amazing discoveries happened and
965
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,799
this paleontologist admired the
966
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:46,559
committed faith of this team of
967
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:48,399
seventh-day adventist christian
968
00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:51,679
scientists dr chadwick seventh-day
969
00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:53,200
adventist christians
970
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,120
feel the special calling to preach the
971
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,120
creation message with the everlasting
972
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,559
gospel
973
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:01,760
dr chadwick how can a person give their
974
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,880
hearts to christ
975
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,919
and accept the faith of jesus the first
976
00:34:05,919 --> 00:34:07,279
thing you have to realize
977
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,320
is that winning an argument is not going
978
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,679
to win a person
979
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,440
and typically what happens is when
980
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,119
people lose arguments they tend to turn
981
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:16,320
away from
982
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,040
the person that's that's that they're
983
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,239
talking to
984
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,239
so i think that that should be thrown
985
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,399
away the desire to win an argument
986
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:26,000
should be thrown out the window
987
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,440
we ought to be talking to people about
988
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,679
jesus and when they see
989
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,639
the beauty of his character and what he
990
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,159
has done for them what he is willing to
991
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:34,879
do
992
00:34:34,879 --> 00:34:38,560
that he is lord of all they'll recognize
993
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,159
more likely that this is a global
994
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,879
this is a universal issue it has to do
995
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:46,320
with the whole universe
996
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,719
and if there is no creator there's no
997
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:49,839
reason to hope
998
00:34:49,839 --> 00:34:52,960
that there's a better life so
999
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,560
ultimately it's the holy spirit that
1000
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,800
brings conviction it's not humans
1001
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,480
it's not arguments and so our job is to
1002
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,040
be a spokesperson for jesus
1003
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,240
and not to try to destroy people's
1004
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:07,760
arguments
1005
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,839
i think as long as we're doing that god
1006
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:10,960
can use us
1007
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,560
to promote him on the earth dr chadwick
1008
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,200
thank you very much for your time it was
1009
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,880
an absolute joy
1010
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,440
and to our listeners thank you very much
1011
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,599
for taking the time to learn with us on
1012
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,280
current topics in science
1013
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,880
where scientific discoveries are
1014
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,680
examined in light of the origins issue
1015
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,280
please share and subscribe to the
1016
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,520
current topics in science podcast
1017
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,760
it's available on itunes stitcher google
1018
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,400
podcast spotify and i heart radio
1019
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,720
you can find dr chadwick's biographical
1020
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:41,760
information
1021
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,240
and scientific achievements a link to
1022
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,400
the geoscience research institute
1023
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,800
a link to the entire is genesis history
1024
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,720
film which is available for free to
1025
00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:51,760
watch
1026
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,760
and links to the bio the articles and
1027
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,800
the videos of dr
1028
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,440
chadwick on the is genesis history
1029
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,400
website
1030
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,480
thanks again for listening and remember
1031
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,000
the truth saves
70690
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