All language subtitles for We Are Not All Feminists _ Edwina Currie _ Oxford Union_en

Madam President it's a great honor to be

here on such an auspicious occasion and

may I actually congratulate if I may the

former president for the wonderful work

that he did which enabled us a year or

so later then to face each other across

this chamber as we used to do then I'd

like also if I make if if it's allowed

just to contract graduate Camilla not

only on a wonderful speech that she's

just made very unusual of the opposition

to congratulate the proposal but also to

put on record my enormous admiration for

the work that you do in kids company and

how you carry that that wonderful work

forward

Madam President when when I was a member

here very long time ago

as I've got quite a lot of the photos of

those days up in my downstairs loo and

maybe I was a librarian the Secretary

was jars brandriss when I first entered

the chamber the president was a

socialist called Ronnie Cohen the the

person who stood against me for

president and one was a character called

David Wolter and speaking from the floor

was a curly-haired young lad

with the name of Bill Clinton which all

goes to show that of course if you go on

to work for breakfast TV Madam Secretary

you'll end up as a national treasure if

you're a socialist you'll go to the city

and you'll end up as a billionaire if

like David Wolter you go and work as the

press officer for the Liberal Democrats

you'll end up in total obscurity and if

you can only speak from the floor you

may end up as leader of the free world

and if you're male and have curly hair

who knows you'll have all sorts of young

ladies offering to bring you cigars I

tell you what they're that the toilets

are an awful lot better than they were

in our day aren't they Michael

absolutely this is this is in many ways

a very strange proposition that we've

heard tonight effectively what I think

the the proposers do is they say yes we

agree we're all feminists now a great

deal has been achieved but not enough

and at least my two colleagues on the

opposition have said no no we're not all

feminists now a great deal has been

achieved but it's not enough I'm in a

different category entirely I'm not a

feminist I have never been a feminist

I'm never likely to be a feminist and

there are all sorts of reasons why not

let me come to those in a moment the

proposer was talking about the days back

when then when there were only five

women's colleges in Oxford and there was

a debate about there was a discussion in

the college about whether the chaps and

the girls had to come in by 10:00 or

10:30 I'd had to be in by 10:30 at

sundance we also had a rule which was

actually a concession and you can guess

what the concession was that said that

we could have men into our rooms before

10:30 but we could only have up to two

men

-

what the heck they thought we were going

to get up to with two met when we

wouldn't get up with three goodness own

yet because there was actually an

occasion when my parents and my brother

were visiting and my boyfriend wanted to

come into the room and one of them

either my brother or my father had to

actually leave and go and stand outside

it was a it was a completely ridiculous

world on one occasion I made a point of

a climbing out of some John's College at

quarter to 11:00 at night and climbing

into some dams at 11 o'clock and landing

in the arms of the Dean mrs. Bednar

obscure so that I could be taken in the

following morning and ticked off and say

to her I think this is completely

ridiculous

I come from Liverpool I've had a donkey

since I was 14 I've just spent the last

year in America on my own in New York

and you're telling me that I have to be

in by 10:30 at night

it's infantilizing and soon afterwards

well it didn't exactly stop for the air

on which you could have a man in your

room overnight at slams provided you

paid for extra linen

I got fine two and six right well that

was all before the Equality laws and it

meant that it was legal to discriminate

women as indeed it was legal to

discriminate against all sorts of people

and many ways it still is but I would

say I would put the point to this house

that it changed not because of the

burning bras of the 1960s any more than

women got the vote in 1918

because women had changed themselves to

the railings or had thrown themselves

under the Kings horse

it changed I think because in the end

reasonable people could see the

reasonableness of just saying there

should be equality under the law and

that is an argument that I have made in

all sorts of other fields ever since

there should be equality under the law

those who argue for discrimination have

got to make the argument about why it is

a good thing and in that sense therefore

I stand for equality but I'm not a

feminist and I do not think that the

ways of feminism the arguments of

feminism are the way forward I'm

actually I actually jet to feminism

Madame's president on to two main areas

one is cultural and one is practical now

the cultural side well we've heard a

little bit of this tonight you see the

problem with the kind of feminism that

we used to hear back in the 60s and the

70s and many years since the kind of

feminism actually has one very big

problem for a woman like me it's the

kind of feminism that actually hates men

and I have a problem with that because

especially on Valentine's Day money but

I don't hate men I love men

I learned to love them here in this city

I love men and I'm one of them vast

majority of women that love men and that

I really don't want to see them in any

way being discriminated against and

there's something also I listened to

Cindy who I've not heard speak before

with greatest interest but again I pick

up something that I heard when I went to

see the Vagina Monologues and came out

thinking that is not about me and what

is excludes I think and it's a cultural

thing is it says you know if you're

going to have gender equality you have

to have men and women the same and the

cultural norm that you appear to be

exhibiting as what we should be ad

inspired to a Trinity is the male one

and for me that is not right for me that

is absolutely not the way to go the

reason I didn't like Vagina Monologues

is in the end the whole of the whole

whole show the whole of the debate and

so much that I heard when I was a

student and when I was a young maid what

a wife as well was all about how women

could take control of their own

fertility fine and they could do exactly

what the men did and I thought what and

they would then be as good as the men

there would be the male equals and then

you could divide society 5050 and

possibly the national debt and all the

rest of it as well and I'm thinking I

don't go with this I really don't go

with this no don't do I love Matt I mean

to remember Michael remember those days

young you're not so old that you've

forgotten

do I want to bet well you know you know

the story of the the old gent about our

a Josh I think actually who goes with

his wife on Valentine's nights and the

GAR premiere and they come back and she

says to him at the bottom of the stairs

carry me up and make love to me and he

says I could do one or the other

that'd be where everyone here this is

where you are going in future so make

the most of it while you've got it

believe me now the cultural side of this

I think has has real problems because

one of the one of the problems with this

idea that we are equal to men and that

we are we should imitate in some way the

male thing is that it denigrates and

diminishes the life experience and

history of most women even in a country

like this most women in a country like

this actually want to become and do

become mothers most women in a country

like this want and are lucky enough if

they get long term commitment from a man

to a man I think so highly of marriage

that I've been married twice I think so

highly of marriage of course I would

have voted for equal marriage for gays

or anybody else just about the

experience of most women does not

conform to that feminist picture and the

feminist seemed to feel that the women

who'd make other choices are making

wrong choices and the net result of that

in the 4050 years that we are

celebrating since is that much progress

has not been made and it troubles me

very much my mother's generation born at

the turn of the last century felt they

had to make a choice between home and a

career and they chose home my daughter's

generation seems for the other reasons

to feel that they have to make a career

between a home Jois between a home and a

career and they choose a career and then

result of that is that you want them to

become CEOs of top companies they get to

40 or 45 the next steps IVF and the next

step is they discover how wonderful it

is to have your child put into your arms

and how actually that can be one of the

most important things that you ever do

if you don't believe me ask your own

mothers it's one of the most precious

things we can do my generation my

generation looked at the choices between

home and career and chose to do both and

it is not easy to do both and you'll

find you're doing one part-time while

you're doing the other full-time and

vice versa

and you'll find that child care is

always going to be a problem and you'll

find especially if you're in the

circumstances that I was in that it's

going to cost you a fortune and you're

going to be skint

but hey you get towards the end of the

main bit of child-rearing and you have a

career as well and that's my cultural

objection to feminism that it rules out

so many of the experiences of so many

women it's so it's so denigrates what

they do and as a result I think it is

actually not the right not the right way

forward there's also a practical side a

practical side because I think feminism

makes victims of us all one of the

slightly cruder versions of feminism if

you like says the reason that there are

so few women or there aren't enough

women or whatever figure you want to

produce while there's there aren't

enough women at the top in this or that

or the other profession is the men's

tapas but I've heard this from you

didn't I president I have a point border

I would like to suggest that whilst it

would greatly disappoint our final two

speakers that we should finish this

debate now I believe my side has

definitively proved that we're not all

feminists now

I didn't um

Madam President we did not set that up

between us I promise you

charlie original but the truth the

trouble with the idea that it's all

men's fault or it's all the system's

fault is that then it seems to me that

women are very often being set up to

fail but you're not going to succeed

you're not going to get to the top

unless there are special measures and

when those special measures fail you

need more special measures you need

quotas you need arrangements you need

some kind of special arrangement of one

kind or another and the net result of

that of course is first of all you end

up discriminating against other people

and secondly you often promote people

who aren't any good and thirdly even

when they get in there and they are

close to the top they still think that

they're not good enough let me take an

example the proof of the pudding is in

the proof of the pudding is in the

eating we have had in this country one

woman Prime Minister one woman Prime

Minister we had Margaret Thatcher we had

one woman Prime Minister who said I am

NOT a feminist and feminism is poison

and she meant that because she felt that

she was able and if she could do it

other women couldn't she was right to

come through the system long before

equality long she did not bleat about

how men were going to hold her back she

did not say that I'm got to wait until

the rules change she did not say there's

got to be quotas she just went for it in

1975 when she saw a vacancy for the

leadership of her party she went for it

now we have very distinguished cabinet

ministers city former cabinet minister

sitting here on the other side has there

yet been a woman leader of the Labour

Party no will there be at the next

election a woman labour Prime Minister

no and one of the reasons is but last

time I had a chance to stand there were

81 labour women MPs and only one stood

and that was Diana bird Harriet Harman

didn't stand honourable lady sitting

opposite didn't stand when push came to

shove and they're all feminists now when

the chance came to lead their great

party when the chance came to fight an

election where they might actually

become prime minister of this country

they chickened out

that's what feminism does to you that's

what feminine the moment you start

blaming other people the moment you

start blaming other people hang on a

minute

I'm nearly done I'm nearly done I'm

nearly done this is this is the message

that I want everyone here to take that

the women shall I say especially but

also the men this is the message I want

you to take there is absolutely nothing

stopping you do not let the feminists

tell you that it's some man's fault if

you don't get on do not let anybody tell

you that because there aren't lots of

women at the top now that you can't do

it because you can you can you have to

put yourself in a position where you can

you have to stand for it you have to do

not stand for feminism but when there's

an opportunity you take it and to take

take that opportunity with any chance of

success you need to get the best

education you can you're right here you

need to acquire the skills you're right

here you need absolute determination and

single-mindedness and you need the one

word we haven't heard yet tonight you

need courage and Madam President

everyone here I wish you the very best

of luck

you